Wednesday . . . 3-12-08 . . . a.m.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Jas.S


LINK, pls. [/*]


My observations

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I know........it is uncanny isn't it?

imoo [/*]

I have filed that one in my uncanny folder Ocean. LOL

We really need a hair pulling icon.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Hi pretty Star, how are you doing?

I do agree with you and all the truth will come forth. I actually think by now that LE has really uncovered a lot. People know things and they speak to LE about what they know when something like this happens.

imoo:seeya: [/*]
I'm just fine and I hope you are too! :) I think right now LE and the DA are keeping a lot to themselves just so everything can proceed to trial when CL is captured. All this time he's at large gives them the time they need to complete their investigation and put together a good case against him, imo. I don't think anyone in the USMC would be hesitant to come forward with what they know either since he's now disgraced them.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Charlotte


I find it hard to believe that a Marine reported being raped by another Marine, was not protected by the MC from said Marine, and was found burned and buried (along with her unborn baby) in said Marine's back yard after said Marine has gone on the lam.

Yet it happened. [/*]I do to Charlotte. Wow he pulled a fast one on all.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Jas.S


That is indeed the question that most people have with it. If there is no threat, force or coersion, how is it rape(s)?

However, the military is required to investigate to determine it was not rape.

That they investigated the allegations does not mean it was a rape. [/*]

Link please

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I have filed that one in my uncanny folder Ocean. LOL

We really need a hair pulling icon. [/*]

Is your folder getting full?:D

imoo

[baywench]

Originally posted by Charlotte


I find it hard to believe that a Marine reported being raped by another Marine, was not protected by the MC from said Marine, and was found burned and buried (along with her unborn baby) in said Marine's back yard after said Marine has gone on the lam.

Yet it happened. [/*]

I'm sorry. I just can't keep going back to square one. If you are interested you can read the previous threads to find out we collectively had this discussion over and over. I will agree to agree. And with that....Nite all....it's starting to feel like Groundhog Day. IMO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Jas.S


You know, I have run that by my head many times and I cannot come up with one, either. [/*]
Most are terrified of the experience and that's why some rapes don't even get reported because the victim is afraid of going to court and relive the whole thing and have to face the perpetrator.

[baywench]

Originally posted by baywench


I'm sorry. I just can't keep going back to square one. If you are interested you can read the previous threads to find out we collectively had this discussion over and over. I will agree to disagree. And with that....Nite all....it's starting to feel like Groundhog Day. IMO [/*]

[hinman]

Originally posted by baywench


I'm sorry. I just can't keep going back to square one. If you are interested you can read the previous threads to find out we collectively had this discussion over and over. I will agree to agree. And with that....Nite all....it's starting to feel like Groundhog Day. IMO [/*]Nite bay:seeya:
Everyday is groundhog day here until we get something new.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by baywench


With all due respect BK I find it hard to believe all these different people and agencies made mistakes. IMO [/*]


Yet it took weeks to find out Maria was truly missing, a woman who was more than 8 mos. pregnant. Even though there were many troubling clues.

They only found her body because Ctina came forward with the notes.

The rapist murderer rode a bus to Mexico.

And you find it hard to believe that clerks, trsnscribers, and lab techs made a few mistakes.


IMO
\

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Yep.

Something about cause and effect should be mandatory reading, imo. :read: [/*]Boy I would hate to be a new poster. If I could not share my opinion with all the individuals on the board.

Am I missing something what did the poster say so wrong.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Incorrect though they may be.

There is absolutely nothing in anything ever published, or any statistics, or anything whatsoever that bear out your statement that ppl tend not to believe someone is raped unless it's a stranger and the stranger beat him/her. [/*]


Is that your opinion?

[hinman]

Originally posted by dave sargent


I think there was something to the SW App where LE stated they verified ML was facing Discharge. THat there are other issues they discovered in the Rape Investigation. IMOO - The punched face story Maria told her Mother she didnt report. A pregnant woman punched in the Face and EVeryone just Shuns her including a Female NCIS Agent (Or UVA- whatever she was) I am not buying it.

If message board Posters can find out ML & CL had a relationship, I feel sure that NCIS found out that & a lot more moo. REGARDLESS, MARIA AND GABRIEL DIDNT DESERVE TO BE MURDERED moo [/*] See dave that is my point if we can come to that conclusion in two months and we do not have all the info they do then why were the charges still ongoing 7 months later and still to this day.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by hinman
See dave that is my point if we can come to that conclusion in two months and we do not have all the info they do then why were the charges still ongoing 7 months later and still to this day. [/*]

:beer:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits



Yet it took weeks to find out Maria was truly missing, a woman who was more than 8 mos. pregnant. Even though there were many troubling clues.

They only found her body because Ctina came forward with the notes.

The rapist murderer rode a bus to Mexico.

And you find it hard to believe that clerks, transcribers, and lab techs made a few mistakes.


IMO
\ [/*]

There was very much evidence that pointed the other way. In fact when this case first broke for days most believed this woman had left on her own free will due to the stress she was under.

They had a note written by her and left to her roommate.
They had her withdrawing money.
They had her buying a bus ticket out of town.
They had knowledge that she had packed personal belongings.
She had made the comment about a week before that she did not like being in the Corps anymore.

And I am not sure I even understand what you mean because they thought she was alive that it makes the clerks, transcribers and lab techs mistaken.:confused: :shrug:

imoo

[Charlotte]

If the investigation concluded that there was no rape, why wasn't the investigation closed?

Could someone please explain the difference between a sexual encounter that is "non-criminal in nature" and one that "involves no threat, force, or coercion?"

The MC seems to be taking pains to label the two encounters in these distinct ways, instead of just saying that "they were both determined to be consensual" or that "neither instance was rape."

Why the parsing of words in this way?

Obviously, there has not been a determination that there was no rape at all, or there would not still be an active investigation. The MC is being deliberately confusing and obscure with the language involved. I'd like to know why. Apparently, so would ML's family and Rep. Turner.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by baywench
[/*]

Nite baywench and have a good one tomorrow! :seeya:

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


snip

I understand when a young woman feels she has been fooled and needs to exact revenge or protect herself, but not by making an unsubstantiated accusation of rape. JMO again. [/*]

I hope I did the snip right because I wanted to respond to this part of your post especially, CandyKisses.

I so agree with you that a false accusation of rape is reprehensible. Not only because another's life may be ruined and the suspicion then always there, even if proven innocent, but also because, every time this happens, it is a setback for true victims.

But in this particular case, Maria isn't here to speak for herself and never can be. Someone at the Laurean house made sure of that.

I simply do not believe that the whole truth will ever be known. And that is very sad for all involved.

[hinman]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


There was very much evidence that pointed the other way. In fact when this case first broke for days most believed this woman had left on her own free will due to the stress she was under.

They had a note written by her and left to her roommate.
They had her withdrawing money.
They had her buying a bus ticket out of town.
They had knowledge that she had packed personal belongings.
She had made the comment about a week before that she did not like being in the Corps anymore.

And I am not sure I even understand what you mean because they thought she was alive that it makes the clerks, transcribers and lab techs mistaken.:confused: :shrug:

imoo [/*]Well she obviously wasn't alive so they must not of investigated that to much not saying they did wrong but if they investigated the rape the same way we might be in trouble. It has been 2 months shy of a year since the rape charges were pressed and no closure.

[martha]

Originally posted by Jas.S


That is indeed the question that most people have with it. If there is no threat, force or coersion, how is it rape(s)?

However, the military is required to investigate to determine it was not rape.

That they investigated the allegations does not mean it was a rape. [/*] That is what i don;t understand if ml ask him to stop and he did how is that rape? I still think ml could not tell her mother the truth because she thought her mother would not stand by her if she had affair with a married man jmoo:rose:

[martha]

Originally posted by Charlotte
If the investigation concluded that there was no rape, why wasn't the investigation closed?

Could someone please explain the difference between a sexual encounter that is "non-criminal in nature" and one that "involves no threat, force, or coercion?"

The MC seems to be taking pains to label the two encounters in these distinct ways, instead of just saying that "they were both determined to be consensual" or that "neither instance was rape."

Why the parsing of words in this way?

Obviously, there has not been a determination that there was no rape at all, or there would not still be an active investigation. The MC is being deliberately confusing and obscure with the language involved. I'd like to know why. Apparently, so would ML's family and Rep. Turner. [/*] ITA i would like to know this too.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
See dave that is my point if we can come to that conclusion in two months and we do not have all the info they do then why were the charges still ongoing 7 months later and still to this day. [/*]

I think it was going to continue to be investigated until the DNA results on the baby was obtained.

They may have ruled that there was insufficient evidence or the evidence showed Maria had made unfounded allegations but they also could get Cesar too if the baby turned out to be his even if it was consensual and they would know he had lied about having no sexual contact.

Personally I think they were following through with it to the end so they could get them under oath and when they determined they both had committed perjury they would have let both of them go and be through with them once and for all.

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by dave sargent


Wait. WE have concluded there was a relationship tia


There is such a thing as DUE PROCESS (many times a S L O W process) THere is LOTS to investigage and there may have been distance and time barriers. However, THey had a pregnant Marine claiming Rape.

Sorry I think some want it both Ways. Either the Marines were doing their Job or they werent moo. I think they were. During their discovery other issues arose. I HOPE They would NEED proof to discharge Maria just as they NEEDED proof to charge CL w/Rape

I think the punched in the face Story May not have been true. WHO would go to the home of someone that had them punched in the face????? I dont beleive ML feared CL == until it was too late :( [/*]I just don't know if the punch in the face story was true or not so I am not going to comment on it. I believe the keying of the car had to be true there would be evidence so who knows about the punch in the face.

I think the Marines were also doing there Job never have said they wasn't. I do think mistakes were made or there are loopholes that need to be fixed.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Charlotte
If the investigation concluded that there was no rape, why wasn't the investigation closed?

Could someone please explain the difference between a sexual encounter that is "non-criminal in nature" and one that "involves no threat, force, or coercion?"

The MC seems to be taking pains to label the two encounters in these distinct ways, instead of just saying that "they were both determined to be consensual" or that "neither instance was rape."

Why the parsing of words in this way?

Obviously, there has not been a determination that there was no rape at all, or there would not still be an active investigation. The MC is being deliberately confusing and obscure with the language involved. I'd like to know why. Apparently, so would ML's family and Rep. Turner. [/*]

Charlotte that is one that I won't even try to tackle as it makes absolutely no sense to me the way the MC parsed their words in that presser.

Either it was rape or it wasn't but that's not what they said.

I will say this much, it was totally unprecedented that the MC did that presser. Normally they would have only released a paper statement that would have merely consisted of a couple of sentences. I have lived here all my life and I can never remember this doing this type of presser about any case on base.

As I said earlier, we really need a hair pulling icon.

JMO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by martha
That is what i don;t understand if ml ask him to stop and he did how is that rape? I still think ml could not tell her mother the truth because she thought her mother would not stand by her if she had affair with a married man jmoo:rose: [/*]
I am leaning in that direction too, martha. It'd be much easier to explain the pregnancy to her family and gain their sympathy also. I still believe though that CL probably lied to Maria about his marriage so I don't fault her for gettting involved with him if that's what happened.

[martha]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Is your folder getting full?:D

imoo [/*]HI GB how or you and your doing I think about you a lot and hope everything is ok with you.:rose:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by martha
HI GB how or you and your doing I think about you a lot and hope everything is ok with you.:rose: [/*]

As my sweet dear Aunt says 'I'm still kicking.......just not too high":D Been a little under the weather in the last couple of weeks but I will be fine, Martha, thanks for asking.

I think of you often too.........you are my ray of sunshine. When I see you posting you warm my heart by your goodness.

imoo:seeya:

[martha]

Originally posted by sunstar

I am leaning in that direction too, martha. It'd be much easier to explain the pregnancy to her family and gain their sympathy also. I still believe though that CL probably lied to Maria about his marriage so I don't fault her for gettting involved with him if that's what happened. [/*] ITA I don't blame ml eather i feel sure she did not know he was married. some men will do anything to get what they want and he was prob playing with her just to get what he wanted. jmoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by dave sargent


We will agree to disagree. I wont weigh in on the keying episode. Be Thankful for the little things LOL [/*]All right dave I agree to disagree. I do that alot with this case.:seeya: I have noticed a lot have left that agreed with me for some reason.

I am very thankful for the little things but still fight for the right things. ;)

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I think it was going to continue to be investigated until the DNA results on the baby was obtained.

They may have ruled that there was insufficient evidence or the evidence showed Maria had made unfounded allegations but they also could get Cesar too if the baby turned out to be his even if it was consensual and they would know he had lied about having no sexual contact.

Personally I think they were following through with it to the end so they could get them under oath and when they determined they both had committed perjury they would have let both of them go and be through with them once and for all.

imoo [/*]

But why wait until the baby was born to obtain the DNA? Amino is available at the Naval Hospital and that could have been accomplished quite easily. That is if the MC thought this was a true case of rape. The DNA sample would have answered the question of no sexual contact but wouldn't have answered the question of rape.

And yes I agree the MC wanted them both to testify under oath to determine the validity of both of their statements and it if was found that either both or one had perjured themselves then the MC would or could be shed of one or both of them (or they may not have discharged either, I just can't say what the MC would have done).

So how could the MC determine the validity of the rape? That's the $64,000 question.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Charlotte that is one that I won't even try to tackle as it makes absolutely no sense to me the way the MC parsed their words in that presser.

Either it was rape or it wasn't but that's not what they said.

I will say this much, it was totally unprecedented that the MC did that presser. Normally they would have only released a paper statement that would have merely consisted of a couple of sentences. I have lived here all my life and I can never remember this doing this type of presser about any case on base.

As I said earlier, we really need a hair pulling icon.

JMO [/*]

Nuttin did you see my post to you on the CS question thread?

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


It is my fervent hope that he did not read the letter. If someone with that kind of lack of knowledge about our armed forces is serving in that committee, as you say, I just could not sleep at night worried about our safety. [/*]Yikes his name is on that letter I hope he Read it. It is not a simple thank you letter. Didn't he even do an interview about the letter that lynn linked.

[martha]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


As my sweet dear Aunt says 'I'm still kicking.......just not too high":D Been a little under the weather in the last couple of weeks but I will be fine, Martha, thanks for asking.

I think of you often too.........you are my ray of sunshine. When I see you posting you warm my heart by your goodness.

imoo:seeya: [/*] OH I am so sorry you have not been feeling good. I been gone a lot had to go to jackson miss last week to see that sweet grandson of mine lol. I will say a prayer for you to get better. thanks for your sweet words.

[IvySterling]

One thing WE ALL CAN AGREE ON, we have different opinions on the Rape allegations.

We've formed our opinions from documentation, family statements, Maria's conversations, emails or other with friends, OR JUST A 'GUT' FEELING.

Whatever the true facts are, I believe it to be the reason over the months it culminated in murder, which was tragic and obscene.

~My Opinion

Nite all, see ya tomorrow :seeya:

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


There was very much evidence that pointed the other way. In fact when this case first broke for days most believed this woman had left on her own free will due to the stress she was under.

They had a note written by her and left to her roommate.
They had her withdrawing money.
They had her buying a bus ticket out of town.
They had knowledge that she had packed personal belongings.
She had made the comment about a week before that she did not like being in the Corps anymore.

And I am not sure I even understand what you mean because they thought she was alive that it makes the clerks, transcribers and lab techs mistaken.:confused: :shrug:

\
imoo [/*]


Oh come on,, the bus ticket wasn't used. She didn't get on a bus. Her car was right there by the station. She took very few things and was missing for weeks. Her phone was found by the roadside, her ATM card was used on by a man 10 days after she went missing. Laurean was not detained or watched. MC did not work with LE. MC did not notify LE of MPO as I understand they were supposed to do. MC originally said Maria showed up gor OB appt. on 12/26. Should I go on?

What I meant to say was that possible mistakes made by clerks, transcribers, lab techs, whatever, seem insignificant compared to all the mistakes and missteps that were made all these people and entities. IMO

[hinman]

Originally posted by IvySterling
One thing WE ALL CAN AGREE ON, we have different opinions on the Rape allegations.

We've formed our opinions from documentation, family statements, Maria's conversations, emails or other with friends, OR JUST A 'GUT' FEELING.

Whatever the true facts are, I believe it to be the reason over the months it culminated in murder, which was tragic and obscene.

~My Opinion

Nite all, see ya tomorrow :seeya: [/*]:seeya: Sleep tight.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


But why wait until the baby was born to obtain the DNA? Amino is available at the Naval Hospital and that could have been accomplished quite easily. That is if the MC thought this was a true case of rape. The DNA sample would have answered the question of no sexual contact but wouldn't have answered the question of rape.

And yes I agree the MC wanted them both to testify under oath to determine the validity of both of their statements and it if was found that either both or one had perjured themselves then the MC would or could be shed of one or both of them (or they may not have discharged either, I just can't say what the MC would have done).

So how could the MC determine the validity of the rape? That's the $64,000 question.

JMO [/*]

The jury on the GJ or the Article 32 hearing as it is called in the military would determine that. Plus we still don't know what evidence they really have maybe even written statements of Maria's that were totally inconsistent.

I have read that is an expensive test for those mothers of high risk age or they worry something is wrong with the baby. As far as I know Gabriel was normal and healthy.

I am not sure that they would just do that or if Maria would want it done. She may have been perfectly okay with waiting until he was born.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Nuttin did you see my post to you on the CS question thread?

imoo [/*]

I just answered you. Please forgive me Ocean! :(

[hinman]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


The jury on the GJ or the Article 32 hearing as it is called in the military would determine that. Plus we still don't know what evidence they really have maybe even written statements of Maria's that were totally inconsistent.

I have read that is an expensive test for those mothers of high risk age or they worry something is wrong with the baby. As far as I know Gabriel was normal and healthy.

I am not sure that they would just do that or if Maria would want it done. She may have been perfectly okay with waiting until he was born.

imoo [/*]I would love to know if they asked Laurean to give a DNA sample and what his response was.

[hinman]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I just answered you. Please forgive me Ocean! :( [/*]Who couldn't forgive you, You do so much.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by IvySterling
One thing WE ALL CAN AGREE ON, we have different opinions on the Rape allegations.

We've formed our opinions from documentation, family statements, Maria's conversations, emails or other with friends, OR JUST A 'GUT' FEELING.

Whatever the true facts are, I believe it to be the reason over the months it culminated in murder, which was tragic and obscene.

~My Opinion

Nite all, see ya tomorrow :seeya: [/*]


:seeya:

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by Jas.S


It would appear that she reported them to her mother. :confused: [/*]

Exactly. It would appear that way.
But there again, what we are left with is what someone, in this case her mother, said that "Maria said."

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
I would love to know if they asked Laurean to give a DNA sample and what his response was. [/*]

They are already supposed to have his DNA profile.

imoo

[Ionmhainn]

Coming on late, as usual, and just caught up. Now that JR is "mentionable" ...has there been any info as to who contacted who? That is, did she go to LE of her own accord? It's my understanding that she was out of the military and had no information to offer about the murder.
Anyone? TIA

[hinman]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


They are already supposed to have his DNA profile.

imoo [/*]I thought they could only use that for identification of him. Can they use it in this case?

[hinman]

Originally posted by Ionmhainn
Coming on late, as usual and just caught up. Now that JR is "mentionable" ...has there been any info as to who contacted who? That is, did she go to LE of her own accord? It's my understanding that she was out of the military and had no information to offer about the murder.
Anyone? TIA [/*]:seeya: Good to see you

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by hinman
I would love to know if they asked Laurean to give a DNA sample and what his response was. [/*]

I would, too!

Regarding the amnio procedure, though: although the baby's dna could be obtained, isn't it true that the amnio process carries some risk to the baby?

[Ionmhainn]

Originally posted by hinman
:seeya: Good to see you [/*]

You too, hinman! :seeya:

[hinman]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


I would, too!

Regarding the amnio procedure, though: although the baby's dna could be obtained, isn't it true that the amnio process carries some risk to the baby? [/*]There is a small risk of miscarriage

http://www.babycenter.com/0_amniocentesis_327.bc?print=true

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by hinman
Who couldn't forgive you, You do so much. [/*]

I try.

Thanks hinman!

Now if Ocean would just forgive me....

[hinman]

Originally posted by dave sargent


Reading here lately, All I can say is


OH THE DRAMA OF IT ALL! [/*]I agree.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
I thought they could only use that for identification of him. Can they use it in this case? [/*]

I would think they could use it in order to identify a child that they suspected might be his.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


I would, too!

Regarding the amnio procedure, though: although the baby's dna could be obtained, isn't it true that the amnio process carries some risk to the baby? [/*]

Yes and to the mother as well.

My youngest DD had one performed at Naval back in March '06 and it was completely explained to her what the risks were and what could happen.

Evening Barbra! :seeya:

JMO

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


1) Yep. We have no idea what they had. We know they said the investigation was difficult because of her inconsistent statements.

2) There is actually no medical reason to get a baby's DNA prior to birth. There are several easy/routine blood test/ultrasounds done now that give the odds of a birth defect or chromosomal problem, and IF those tests show a higher than normal risk, then the mother could opt for the amnio.

As you say, it is risky and very expensive.

As the baby's paternity would not prove or disprove rape in any way, I cannot imagine there even being a conversation about doing an amnio for DNA. [/*]I would doubt there was a conversation either. They were probably jusst going to wait though the DNA would not prove rape so I am not sure why they would have to wait to conclude that case.

They could of dropped them charges against CL and then investigated adultry charges.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Ionmhainn
Coming on late, as usual, and just caught up. Now that JR is "mentionable" ...has there been any info as to who contacted who? That is, did she go to LE of her own accord? It's my understanding that she was out of the military and had no information to offer about the murder.
Anyone? TIA [/*]

She was never in the Marines..........her husband is a Marine if iirc I think she said they would be returning to CLJ soon I think.

No she and her husband had moved away in late October believe.

I don't think anyone knows about the murder itself except CSL and CAL.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Yes.

I can't imagine any doc agreeing to do such a needless procedure, given the risk, just to get DNA.

The marines said they would wait till the baby was born for it, which seems the only way to do it. [/*]

You're right. I shouldn't have typed that about the amino. Just slap my fingers for typing such a thing. hammer

And the Marines could wait until the baby was born.

The DNA still wouldn't prove a rape occurred. It would have only proved that sex occurred between the two.

That much we know for sure.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by martha
ITA I don't blame ml eather i feel sure she did not know he was married. some men will do anything to get what they want and he was prob playing with her just to get what he wanted. jmoo [/*]
I so agree. That sounds very familiar and he probably lied to her right to the end, maybe even talking her into going to El Paso until maybe she changed her mind after finding out the bus wasn't leaving until the next day? Just guessing trying to grasp at what really happened that night. :seeya:

[Babes]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


They are already supposed to have his DNA profile.

imoo [/*]


I agree --- From the Military DNA Registry

[Ionmhainn]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


She was never in the Marines..........her husband is a Marine if iirc I think she said they would be returning to CLJ soon I think.

No she and her husband had moved away in late October believe.

I don't think anyone knows about the murder itself except CSL and CAL.

imoo [/*]

You're right, of course, a Marine wife...thanks for refreshing my memory.

I just can't see any reason for her to have been contacted by LE , or the media. :shrug:

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Just another instance when her mother says that ML told her something but not reported it, or in the same way, to CSIS/marines. :confused: [/*]You know I wonder why her mother didn't go up there and get answers herself with Maria. If she had such an influence and felt so strongly her daughter was wronged. she new her daughter was claiming to be raped, punched, car scratched, and so on.

Just me wondering about things trying to take in all accounts and make sense of something that makes no sense. I am not blaming mom or even saying she had to go just curious.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by sunstar

I so agree. That sounds very familiar and he probably lied to her right to the end, maybe even talking her into going to El Paso until maybe she changed her mind after finding out the bus wasn't leaving until the next day? Just guessing trying to grasp at what really happened that night. :seeya: [/*]

Sunstar there is no telling what CAL told Maria! He could have promised her the moon and the stars for all we know.

There's only two people who know what was said between them and unfortunately one of them is now dead.

JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by hinman
You know I wonder why her mother didn't go up there and get answers herself with Maria. If she had such an influence and felt so strongly her daughter was wronged. she new her daughter was claiming to be raped, punched, car scratched, and so on.

Just me wondering about things trying to take in all accounts and make sense of something that makes no sense. I am not blaming mom or even saying she had to go just curious. [/*]

Me too hinman.

Now I'm not questioning Mary's parenting skills in no way shape or form.

BUT I certainly know what I would have done if this happened to one of my children: My butt would have been there in a NY minute to see WTH was going on especially if my daughter called me and said she had been raped, punched, threatened, etc.

JMO

[hinman]

Originally posted by sunstar

I so agree. That sounds very familiar and he probably lied to her right to the end, maybe even talking her into going to El Paso until maybe she changed her mind after finding out the bus wasn't leaving until the next day? Just guessing trying to grasp at what really happened that night. :seeya: [/*] very Possible, There had to be a reason for that darn ticket to El Paso. I always thought they had to know the ticket would be traced and the military would be looking for them sense they were involved in a case but I guess the military doesn't look for you or at least from what I have read from some posters they don't.

So I changed that thought but I would of took my car.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Sunstar there is no telling what CAL told Maria! He could have promised her the moon and the stars for all we know.

There's only two people who know what was said between them and unfortunately one of them is now dead.

JMO [/*]j

And the other has run and hid.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by bkwits
j

And the other has run and hid. [/*]

Yes he did! :flamemad: :cuss:

Oh for the love of Pete, I wish he would just hurry it up by screwing up, get caught, and preferably in the US.

JMO

[Babes]

Originally posted by hinman
very Possible, There had to be a reason for that darn ticket to El Paso. I always thought they had to know the ticket would be traced and the military would be looking for them sense they were involved in a case but I guess the military doesn't look for you or at least from what I have read from some posters they don't.

So I changed that thought but I would of took my car. [/*]

He possibly lied to her saying -" I got a ticket to EL Paso, Can you get your ticket to EL Paso also and we will elope to Texas , where some of my family lives . And then ill see you at the house - pick me up- Christina will be attending the party and she wont be there" - And Poor Maria went there expecting she is going to elope with Cesar but instead got hacked to death :( :(

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Sunstar there is no telling what CAL told Maria! He could have promised her the moon and the stars for all we know.

There's only two people who know what was said between them and unfortunately one of them is now dead.

JMO [/*]

Hi Nuttintodo, you must be tired from getting all those questions together! Thank you. And thanks to all who compiled such a thorough list, these are some thinking people on this forum. Many good brains here.

As to your post above, I agree with every word.

[hinman]

Originally posted by dave sargent


WHAT are you trying to Say because It seems that You have disregarded due process and MC Protocal as viable reasons & You see no problems with the Congressman's Letter. He disagrees the MC did a proper investigation. Sooooooooooooo......Why do you keep asking this Question????

MOO IF they were covering something up or nonchalant above the gravity of the sitation, they would have closed it MOO. Soooo...........Please tell me why YOU THINK they 'let it drag on' for 7 months tia [/*]just curious why you feel that I have disregarded due process and MC Protocol as reasons when I haven't?

I truly do not see no probs with the congressman's letter. If he did not read it then that could be a problem since he did do an interview about the letter and signed his name to it. I think the family had good questions they were not his questions but the families and I think they have a right to them answers.

I would also like to see a post from me and I have been on this case since the very beginning so you might have to look through a lot of posts were I have once said they were covering up.

Now I will answer your question why I think they let it drag on for 7 months. I think they did not have all the facts yet and were still investigating the rape claim. They were trying to get evidence to prove a rape happened not disprove.

I think that if it were opposite and they had just regarded Maria as a liar the investigation would of been over. If they had proof she lied why continue the investigation. Hope that helps with you understand where I am coming from.

[bkwits]

:seeya:


Nite all. Maybe tomorrow.

[hinman]

Originally posted by dave sargent



Lightbulb Moment: You should be the keeper of the Error List :D Please add from me

Error in Due Date
ErrorS in SW Apps
Error in Emailing
ErrorS in Congressman's Letter


tia [/*]I got one error in relationship of maria and her mother/stepmother.

[hinman]

Originally posted by bkwits
:seeya:


Nite all. Maybe tomorrow. [/*]nite bk.

I hope it is tomorrow.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


This is not directed to you, Martha. But there has been something said like this several times on this thread and I have decided to give my thoughts--but pls don't think they are directed at you!

Some men will do anything to get what they want. Some women will do anything to get what they want. Some men play with women. Some women play with men. "Just to get what he wanted" is not gender-specific. Women lie to men to get just what they want, too.

I am troubled by this vision that we still seem to cling to, though it is 2008, that women are weak, poor lil things who are taken advantage of by men.

Like women don't have needs, wants, desires, affairs, sex with married men, sex with others while married, minds of their own.

For petes sakes, we are talking about a woman who was a MARINE. Who would have gone to Iraq to fight.

Why do we still cling to the harlequin romance version of the weak woman as the victim of men? :( [/*]This is a great post Jas and you are correct. I know a few women that way.

I will take this into consideration tonight as I go to bed. I am still trying to figure this whole mess out.

Thanks for making this point sometimes we just need to be reminded.

[hinman]

Originally posted by dave sargent



Thanks for Replying. I will accept that is your position

I posted that it *SEEMED TO ME* that...........................................

As it Regards "like to see a post from" You, I hope you arent disappointed that I will not be letting you "see" anything LOL. I am not keeping score or pointing fingers. I thought we were having a discussion. I posted what *I thought* to be your position. You clarified moo

Now I need to go find r/l :seeya: [/*]fair enough. I really do enjoy reading your opinion so please don't take my posts personal I am not trying to discount anyones opinions.

I just want answers and Cl caught like everyone else.

[hinman]

Originally posted by dave sargent


GREAT One!!!

I think it *MAY BE* due to mention of her Biological Father in the Email..... and A snowball . Do you have a theory on how StepMom Originated? [/*]That is a good possibility. I don't have much of a theory on how it originated, I would love to know though.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by hinman
All right dave I agree to disagree. I do that alot with this case.:seeya: I have noticed a lot have left that agreed with me for some reason.

I am very thankful for the little things but still fight for the right things. ;) [/*]


You do a great job too hinman. I read here most days and love your common sense posts. With little to no new news on the case I find the posts to be reruns everyday....like a never ending circle so to speak. Just makes me hammer .

Hopefully someday soon we will awake to learn CL has been captured so Maria and Gabriel will get the justice they deserve.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



You do a great job too hinman. I read here most days and love your common sense posts. With little to no new news on the case I find the posts to be reruns everyday....like a never ending circle so to speak. Just makes me hammer .

Hopefully someday soon we will awake to learn CL has been captured so Maria and Gabriel will get the justice they deserve. [/*] Hey girl been missing you.:seeya:

[CanCan]

:seeya: Wow - 19 pages - something musta hit the fan today. I have a feeling I'll be up reeeeeally late reading this thread!:read:

[CanCan]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Ain't that the truth. [/*]

:lol:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by dave sargent



Lightbulb Moment: You should be the keeper of the Error List :D Please add from me

Error in Due Date
ErrorS in SW Apps
Error in Emailing
ErrorS in Congressman's Letter


tia [/*]

Error in anything Mary Lauterbach has stated about compulsive occasional lies even if you see and hear her.

Error in friends' recollection.

Error in obitiuary.

I don't have enough time go to there this morning. :patriot:

JMO

When everything has to be WRONG for you to be RIGHT, just maybe your thinking process is WRONG.

JMO AGAIN.:patriot:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Jas.S


This is not directed to you, Martha. But there has been something said like this several times on this thread and I have decided to give my thoughts--but pls don't think they are directed at you!

Some men will do anything to get what they want. Some women will do anything to get what they want. Some men play with women. Some women play with men. "Just to get what he wanted" is not gender-specific. Women lie to men to get just what they want, too.

I am troubled by this vision that we still seem to cling to, though it is 2008, that women are weak, poor lil things who are taken advantage of by men.

Like women don't have needs, wants, desires, affairs, sex with married men, sex with others while married, minds of their own.

For petes sakes, we are talking about a woman who was a MARINE. Who would have gone to Iraq to fight.

Why do we still cling to the harlequin romance version of the weak woman as the victim of men? :( [/*]

I just know you want me to field this one - NOT SO MUCH HUH????:no:

Well here goes,

When you have some people who are still clinging to a fantasy that this young woman could be their heroine you're no longer following a case IMO.

All objectivity has been lost once you start rewriting history and making heroines. Then add to that the mentality of no women lie about rape, and in this day and age it's quite possible they lie for any number of reasons.

However, that said Jas, your words about women doing what they need to; INCLUDING AND NOT LIMITED TO....GASP....LIES to get what they want can't be understated today.

We are in a new world and yes you are right, women want and enjoy sex and they fight for the freedoms we enjoy right here.

Who are we to paint them as weak and pristine. I can't remember who said GOOD WOMEN RARELY MAKE HISTORY, paraphrased. BUT they were spot on.

We are humans, all of us and we aren't perfect and never will be IMO.

ALL JMO.:patriot:

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by Jas. S.




This is not directed to you, Martha. But there has been something said like this several times on this thread and I have decided to give my thoughts--but pls don't think they are directed at you!

Some men will do anything to get what they want. Some women will do anything to get what they want. Some men play with women. Some women play with men. "Just to get what he wanted" is not gender-specific. Women lie to men to get just what they want, too.

I am troubled by this vision that we still seem to cling to, though it is 2008, that women are weak, poor lil things who are taken advantage of by men.

Like women don't have needs, wants, desires, affairs, sex with married men, sex with others while married, minds of their own.

For petes sakes, we are talking about a woman who was a MARINE. Who would have gone to Iraq to fight.

Why do we still cling to the harlequin romance version of the weak woman as the victim of men? :(

___________________________________

Because a very pregnant Maria is the one who was bludgeoned to death, thrown into a pit and set on fire by laurean, a male?

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by bkwits



People tend not to believe a rape victim unless she beat up by a stranger. Here we have a dead young woman who had said this man raped her and stood by that for many months despite almost no one believing her. He has proven to be of low, low character and IMO a brutal man, so until I see something that changes my mind.

I stand up for Maria. [/*]

:beer:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


What's relevant in this investigation is what Maria told the marine corps, not her Mother. IMO. As far as I can determine by reading all the articles and the mc press conference, she did tell them that she had a consensual relationship with laurean first. [/*]

Hoping you will provide us with the information you based this post on. Thanks in advance. :patriot:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


:beer: [/*]

There is no discounting the damage an unsubstantiated claim can do and we don't know if he finally reached the end of his rope and struck out because he believed he never hurt this young woman.

The USMC could not find enough evidence to bring a charge, and this young woman didn't even turn in the allegation for a month or more. Not to mention the idea of her inconsistent stories as we know them today. IMO based on what we know, the investigation should have been concluded and the accuser offered counseling. JMO.


Instead, they kept trying to help her and in the end trying to hold up an allegation with no evidence of rape may have been what motivated a murder IMHO.

I would think all three parties involved in this tragedy had to be under tremendous stress, and little Gabriel was the only one with no dog in the fight but yet never got a chance to take a breath.

ALL JMO.

If you want to discuss the murder, there was enough evidence to suggest that Cesar had a hand in it and a grand jury agreed with that thereby granting a charge.

AGAIN, JMO.:patriot:

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Hoping you will provide us with the information you based this post on. Thanks in advance. :patriot: [/*]

Already did:


What's relevant in this investigation is what Maria told the marine corps, not her Mother. IMO. As far as I can determine by reading all the articles and the mc press conference, she did tell them that she had a consensual relationship with laurean first.



Oh and let me add that very early on in this investigation, I recall a friend of Maria's saying that Maria told her they had a consensual relationship and then she ended it.

:cool:

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


There is no discounting the damage an unsubstantiated claim can do and we don't know if he finally reached the end of his rope and struck out because he believed he never hurt this young woman.

The USMC could not find enough evidence to bring a charge, and this young woman didn't even turn in the allegation for a month or more. Not to mention the idea of her inconsistent stories as we know them today. IMO based on what we know, the investigation should have been concluded and the accuser offered counseling. JMO.


Instead, they kept trying to help her and in the end trying to hold up an allegation with no evidence of rape may have been what motivated a murder IMHO.

I would think all three parties involved in this tragedy had to be under tremendous stress, and little Gabriel was the only one with no dog in the fight but yet never got a chance to take a breath.

ALL JMO.

If you want to discuss the murder, there was enough evidence to suggest that Cesar had a hand in it and a grand jury agreed with that thereby granting a charge.

AGAIN, JMO.:patriot: [/*]

You can talk about false rape charges till the cows come home. The fact remains that there has been no final determination by anyone that there were in fact false rape charges in this case. Period! imo