Wednesday . . . 3-12-08 . . . a.m.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by hinman
O/T Police in standoff with suspect #2 in Eve Carsons murder. [/*]

I hope all turns out well in this standoff and they do indeed have the right people! Could it be the POI already detained gave CHPD the name of this person?

Maybe this is why the presser has been delayed.

JMO

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


FYI, the Renner family just welcomed their child into the world March 4th. I believe it has been stated in two articles now that the Mrs. and Maria were in classes together in the beginning IIRC. :(

JMO [/*]
Yes it was, in this article
http://tinyurl.com/2h35ok

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by donna
Sounds like many of us will faint if we hear CAL is not the father of Gabriel! I just so firmly believe he is.

I just have to share this about jealous wives. A woman right here in this neighborhood found out her husband was cheating on her. He traveled in his job. Well, she snipped all of the zippers out of his pants, cut all of the buttons off of his dress shirts, cut he toes out of his socks, and a big hole in the back of each pair of boxer shorts. Then she packed his suit case very neatly for his out of town trip, drove him to the airport and kissed him goodbye.
She is fine but he will not talk about it to this day - the divorce is final!

Sorry - just had to tell it. [/*]

I love to hear a tale of a spirited woman like that Donna. Thanks for sharing. :beer:

[hinman]

Originally posted by donna
Sounds like many of us will faint if we hear CAL is not the father of Gabriel! I just so firmly believe he is.

I just have to share this about jealous wives. A woman right here in this neighborhood found out her husband was cheating on her. He traveled in his job. Well, she snipped all of the zippers out of his pants, cut all of the buttons off of his dress shirts, cut he toes out of his socks, and a big hole in the back of each pair of boxer shorts. Then she packed his suit case very neatly for his out of town trip, drove him to the airport and kissed him goodbye.
She is fine but he will not talk about it to this day - the divorce is final!

Sorry - just had to tell it. [/*]:D

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by donna


Hi, nuttin!

It would be so great for you to go to the trial, then report back to us!!

:patriot: [/*]

I will and if there's wireless inside the courthouse, I'll even try to post while in attendance. But either way, I will take my laptop with me to keep a record of the happenings.

JMO :seeya:

[donna]

Originally posted by hinman
O/T Police in standoff with suspect #2 in Eve Carsons murder. [/*]

:eek: ... Thanks! (since this morning?)

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by donna
Sounds like many of us will faint if we hear CAL is not the father of Gabriel! I just so firmly believe he is.

I just have to share this about jealous wives. A woman right here in this neighborhood found out her husband was cheating on her. He traveled in his job. Well, she snipped all of the zippers out of his pants, cut all of the buttons off of his dress shirts, cut he toes out of his socks, and a big hole in the back of each pair of boxer shorts. Then she packed his suit case very neatly for his out of town trip, drove him to the airport and kissed him goodbye.
She is fine but he will not talk about it to this day - the divorce is final!

Sorry - just had to tell it. [/*]

God forgive me, but I'm over here snickering at that one! :D

What a creative way to vent your frustrations...LOL. The worst thing I did when I found my ex was cheating (again) was to sew up the front fly of all his briefs...I was a baaaad girl that day.

[hinman]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I will and if there's wireless inside the courthouse, I'll even try to post while in attendance. But either way, I will take my laptop with me to keep a record of the happenings.

JMO :seeya: [/*]I hope that day comes soon nuttin. I will be glued to my PC and TV if it is televised.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I will and if there's wireless inside the courthouse, I'll even try to post while in attendance. But either way, I will take my laptop with me to keep a record of the happenings.

JMO :seeya: [/*]

Do you think there is a chance that this case will be broadcast?

[donna]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Yes, OL. However, I just see absolutely no evidence that ML had decided to make an adoption placement or that anything was going in that direction. [/*]

I just do not think Maria had any intention of giving Baby Gabriel up either!

[strick10]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Don't be sorry hinman, we still don't know. :shrug: But I still think she was probably torn about what to do right up to the end.

I also think that bond between mother and child was probably sealed and she was trying to make a plan to keep her child in December.

I am really hoping that Maria was a texter and that the records will reflect why she thought she was going to Cesar's home and how the contact that day started out.

You know I have always thought communications would be key in this case and I am still holding tightly to that belief.

JMO :patriot: [/*]

I forgot all about texting.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by donna


I just do not think Maria had any intention of giving Baby Gabriel up either! [/*]

ITA.

[donna]

Originally posted by Marcia3


God forgive me, but I'm over here snickering at that one! :D

What a creative way to vent your frustrations...LOL. The worst thing I did when I found my ex was cheating (again) was to sew up the front fly of all his briefs...I was a baaaad girl that day. [/*]

:lol: .... No, you were a very good girl!

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I hope all turns out well in this standoff and they do indeed have the right people! Could it be the POI already detained gave CHPD the name of this person?

Maybe this is why the presser has been delayed.

JMO [/*]

I hadn't heard about a standoff!

So this is the second suspect in the standoff?

I know the first was brought in early this a.m. after a raid in Durham. They showed his "perp walk". Looked like he was trying to make them drag him.

Of course they haven't confirmed that the first guy arrested was a suspect, but....

Last I heard presser's at 4:30.

[hinman]

Originally posted by donna


I just do not think Maria had any intention of giving Baby Gabriel up either! [/*]Nothing has convinced me yet that she was leaning towards giving the baby up. At the MC PC they made a statement saying that there was indications she was keeping the baby. That is my own words I can't remember their words. :D

[nuttintodo]

Hey himan and et al, I just got this email:

Demario James Atwater, 21, of Durham, has been charged with first-degree murder in the death of Eve Carson. More details at http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2561551/

Yes!!

Sorry for the O/T.

[donna]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I love to hear a tale of a spirited woman like that Donna. Thanks for sharing. :beer: [/*]

:D ... Very true story!

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by JanDoe


I guess her official request to live off-base was sometime in
the summer, according to the Marine Corp PC [/*]

I think her "official" request was made in September.

She "stayed" at the Renners, but still maintained a barracks.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I hadn't heard about a standoff!

So this is the second suspect in the standoff?

I know the first was brought in early this a.m. after a raid in Durham. They showed his "perp walk". Looked like he was trying to make them drag him.

Of course they haven't confirmed that the first guy arrested was a suspect, but....

Last I heard presser's at 4:30. [/*]

Read what I just posted--one has been arrested!

[hinman]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Hey himan and et al, I just got this email:

Demario James Atwater, 21, of Durham, has been charged with first-degree murder in the death of Eve Carson. More details at http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2561551/

Yes!!

Sorry for the O/T. [/*]Thanks, I hope they catch this second POS safely. Stand offs are scary.

[hinman]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I hadn't heard about a standoff!

So this is the second suspect in the standoff?

I know the first was brought in early this a.m. after a raid in Durham. They showed his "perp walk". Looked like he was trying to make them drag him.

Of course they haven't confirmed that the first guy arrested was a suspect, but....

Last I heard presser's at 4:30. [/*]standoff going on now it was on MSNBC.

[strick10]

Originally posted by JanDoe


I guess her official request to live off-base was sometime in
the summer, according to the Marine Corp PC [/*]

IRRC MC presser stated Maria requested to live off base on 17 September 07.

[hinman]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I think her "official" request was made in September.

She "stayed" at the Renners, but still maintained a barracks. [/*]If I remember correctly then you are correct. Of course my memory is not perfect.

[nuttintodo]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by donna


I just do not think Maria had any intention of giving Baby Gabriel up either! [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I certainly don't think Maria was going to either. Maria may have felt pressured by her family but tI do not see no way in heck o' pete she was going to give him up.

JMO

[donna]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I will and if there's wireless inside the courthouse, I'll even try to post while in attendance. But either way, I will take my laptop with me to keep a record of the happenings.

JMO :seeya: [/*]

And I certainly would prefer your reporting over some of the media's skewed reporting as in some of the first articles written about this case!

:)

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I think her "official" request was made in September.

She "stayed" at the Renners, but still maintained a barracks. [/*]

Thanks cryme.....when did JR surface with her story?

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Read what I just posted--one has been arrested! [/*]

I saw that!

I think the article mentioned he might be the boyfriend of a woman who lived on that street. Wonder if that was the same woman who had called CHPD earlier?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


IRRC MC presser stated Maria requested to live off base on 17 September 07. [/*]

Does it normally take 60 days to get the request approved?

JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I will and if there's wireless inside the courthouse, I'll even try to post while in attendance. But either way, I will take my laptop with me to keep a record of the happenings.

JMO :seeya: [/*]

:patriot:

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I think her "official" request was made in September.

She "stayed" at the Renners, but still maintained a barracks. [/*]

Otherwise known as brown bagging.

[baywench]

Originally posted by Sami


I respectfully disagree, GB. I think every poster here wants honest answers, every last one of us.

But I think when there's a 'he said/she said', and NO ONE here can know the full extent of the truth of what JR is saying or what SG (the supposed ex-boyfriend) is saying, then when the victim is deceased and can no longer speak for herself, in my opinion it is better to err on the side of believing in the inherent goodness and veracity of the now silent victim.

I know some of you seem to be wanting the truth to be more disparaging, and thus, seem to believe those he said/she saids who place Maria somewhat in the position of being somehow to blame for the atrocities that occurred to her and Gabriel.

And I know that some of us are wanting the truth to be more in favor of Maria being a heroine who was possibly 'hit on' by a married man who knew how to take advantage of her and was able to sexually assault her, impregnate her, kill her and the Baby, desecrate her and the Baby, and still have some of us doubt that it would have ever happened if Maria had only been more believable. . . . .:shrug:

I guess we all can see the truth from our own perspective -- it's just what we choose to want to see, imo. [/*]

Does she have to be either? Does it make her any less dead? How many times do we have to have this discussion? I don't think Maria was raped but I also don't think she is to blame. What does that do to your theory? Jenna knew Maria...fact. More disparaging of the posters than their posts IMO :shrug:

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Jas.S


There is not a doubt in my mind that is not true. I am just sure she did hope for a family with him. [/*]

I think NOT:mad:

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Does it normally take 60 days to get the request approved?

JMO [/*]

Anywhere from 30 - 60 days. IMO they need time to obtain upper echelon approval for a single Marine to receive the BAQ and comrats pay. In Marias case the baby wasn't born yet so there was no dependent as of yet but they realized she would need to get a place of her own before long anyhow. If her baby had already been born it probably would've taken about 30 days as she had a legitimate dependent. Hope I make sense, I'm triple tasking here.

[hinman]

Originally posted by bkwits


I think NOT:mad: [/*] I have felt that if she wanted to have a family with him, then claiming rape would not of been the way to achieve that. Just my thought and I have many.

[donna]

O/T - Press conference on Eve Carson murder on MSNBC in approximately 5 minutes!

[hinman]

Originally posted by old_lady


I think that is one of your very good thoughts. :) [/*]well..Thank you.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by donna
O/T - Press conference on Eve Carson murder on MSNBC in approximately 5 minutes! [/*]
Cont'd: O/T
LIVE NOW
at http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2561551/
Setting up mics

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Cont'd: O/T
LIVE NOW
at http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2561551/
Setting up mics [/*]

Second suspect in custody!

[strick10]

Originally posted by Jas.S


It is my belief that she did that out of anger and it was not a very well thought-out thing, and that she regretted it later. We have seen it reported that she tried to withdraw the accusations. [/*]

ITA w/ you Jas.S IMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by donna
O/T - Press conference on Eve Carson murder on MSNBC in approximately 5 minutes! [/*]

It can be watched here: http://www.wral.com/news/video/2566542/

And the standoff is at Shepard and Proctor St. in Durham in reference to the 2nd suspect.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Jas.S


It is my belief that she did that out of anger and it was not a very well thought-out thing, and that she regretted it later. We have seen it reported that she tried to withdraw the accusations. [/*]

I totally agree with that.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Anywhere from 30 - 60 days. IMO they need time to obtain upper echelon approval for a single Marine to receive the BAQ and comrats pay. In Marias case the baby wasn't born yet so there was no dependent as of yet but they realized she would need to get a place of her own before long anyhow. If her baby had already been born it probably would've taken about 30 days as she had a legitimate dependent. Hope I make sense, I'm triple tasking here. [/*]

You made perfect sense! Thank you strick.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


It can be watched here: http://www.wral.com/news/video/2566542/

And the standoff is at Shepard and Proctor St. in Durham in reference to the 2nd suspect. [/*]

2nd suspect 17 years old. According to police chief, they are still looking for him.

:shrug:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by baywench


Does she have to be either? Does it make her any less dead? How many times do we have to have this discussion? I don't think Maria was raped but I also don't think she is to blame. What does that do to your theory? Jenna knew Maria...fact. More disparaging of the posters than their posts IMO :shrug: [/*]

:beer: Bravo for that!

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


You made perfect sense! Thank you strick. [/*]

Didn't she move off base with DD around the first of November?

imoo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Didn't she move off base with DD around the first of November?

imoo [/*]

I think so, sometime in the first two weeks of November IIRC.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Jas.S


It is my belief that she did that out of anger and it was not a very well thought-out thing, and that she regretted it later. We have seen it reported that she tried to withdraw the accusations. [/*]


Ciccarelli said not true.

[strick10]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Didn't she move off base with DD around the first of November?

imoo [/*]

Believe it was 5 November 2007. Good memory GB. This is also the day that she met w/ trial counsel and readjustment her statement as to CL being the father of her son.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


2nd suspect 17 years old. According to police chief, they are still looking for him.

:shrug: [/*]

According to the presser, Lovitt was the driver and Atwater was the one seen in the convenience store photos.

JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by bkwits



Ciccarelli said not true. [/*]

Her uncle, Peter Steiner, is the one who said she tried to withdraw the allegations.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


According to the presser, Lovitt was the driver and Atwater was the one seen in the convenience store photos.

JMO [/*]

I never thought the convenience store guy and the driver were the same person.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Believe it was 5 November 2007. Good memory GB. This is also the day that she met w/ trial counsel and readjustment her statement as to CL being the father of her son. [/*]

Wasn't this also the date Maria request to move off base was granted?

jmo

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Didn't she move off base with DD around the first of November?

imoo [/*]

Yes, it would have been either Oct. 31st or Nov. 1st

~snip
On Oct. 18, NCIS recommended no disciplinary action in the rape case "until forensic evidence DNA can be retrieved from the child."

Thirteen days later, her command granted Lauterbach permission to move into off-base housing. A friend, Sgt. Daniel Durham, offered a place to stay out of sympathy for her plight.
http://tinyurl.com/yvw6rm

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Her uncle, Peter Steiner, is the one who said she tried to withdraw the allegations. [/*]

And didn't her cousin also state on his personal page that Maria had recanted the rape allegations? Maybe I just don't remember quite clearly on her cousins words.

[baywench]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


:seeya: I know the answer- at least I think I do- some women blame to "other woman" or "other party: and stay loyal to their
mate because they know the alternative is life on their own. possibly with kids... easier it would "seem" to CHANGE the man (has this EVER been done successfully? Only God knows) and not have this bit of nastiness anymore.

Have never been the "other woman" but have dated many men who were divorced, and "heard' all their sob stories about what a "bit**-" their exes were- and these men were "free" of those women except for financially. Woo, never dated ONE guy who spoke nicely about his ex- and some on the first or second date.
Note to Guys: We don't dig this. Really.
Can only IMAGINE the frenzied poor me sob stories that come out of a married persons mouth when they want in somebodys pants. :rolleyes: [/*]

I'm still way back but I have found with men it is either their wife or their PSYCHO ex-wife/girlfriends!

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I never thought the convenience store guy and the driver were the same person. [/*]

Me either---there was nothing similar indicating they were the same person. Atwater looks older than Lovett imo from the photos that were shown at the end of the presser.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Her uncle, Peter Steiner, is the one who said she tried to withdraw the allegations. [/*]


I think he said she thought about it, because of the harassment. It was not, according to Steiner, because she wasn't raped. IMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Wasn't this also the date Maria request to move off base was granted?

jmo [/*]

31 October 07 is when her request was approved.

[donna]

Originally posted by Jas.S


It is my belief that she did that out of anger and it was not a very well thought-out thing, and that she regretted it later. We have seen it reported that she tried to withdraw the accusations. [/*]

Jas.S, I also think Maria felt she had to report it that way also due to Mary telling her to. (anger as well)

I do believe that Maria tried to withdraw the accusations also.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by strick10


And didn't her cousin also state on his personal page that Maria had recanted the rape allegations? Maybe I just don't remember quite clearly on her cousins words. [/*]

Who is the cousin? I don't recall hearing about him.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


31 October 07 is when her request was approved. [/*]

TY and looking back at Nov. '07's calendar the 5th was on a Monday.

Not that I find anything wrong with moving on a Monday but I would think Maria would have wanted moved over the weekend so everything would be in place to report to work on Monday. Plus DD may not have been home over the weekend too.

JMO

[donna]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I never thought the convenience store guy and the driver were the same person. [/*]

The driver had a different jacket on than the guy in the convenience store pic, so I didn't think it was him either.

I am so glad they are captured!

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by strick10


31 October 07 is when her request was approved. [/*]
Yes, and according to this she moved on:
Nov. 5 - Lauterbach moves to off-base housing to prepare for the birth of her child. She also changes her official statement that her pregnancy resulted from an alleged rape.
http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/2294047/

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by donna


The driver had a different jacket on than the guy in the convenience store pic, so I didn't think it was him either.

I am so glad they are captured! [/*]

One is still loose. :(

[strick10]

Originally posted by bkwits


Who is the cousin? I don't recall hearing about him. [/*]

Darn, I have the link to his page at home on my laptop. IIRC he is a Steiner that lived in Africa and came back to Ohio for schooling and visited the Lauterbachs frequently. Seems like he was close to Maria and her family during that time. I'll e-mail you the link when I get home from work if you'd like.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by donna


The driver had a different jacket on than the guy in the convenience store pic, so I didn't think it was him either.

I am so glad they are captured! [/*]

I found it strange that Chapel Hil LE seem not to know about the standoff in Durham that may be Lovett.

So I dont think they have arrested him yet have they?

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by strick10


Darn, I have the link to his page at home on my laptop. IIRC he is a Steiner that lived in Africa and came back to Ohio for schooling and visited the Lauterbachs frequently. Seems like he was close to Maria and her family during that time. I'll e-mail you the link when I get home from work if you'd like. [/*]

Thanks.

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


TY and looking back at Nov. '07's calendar the 5th was on a Monday.

Not that I find anything wrong with moving on a Monday but I would think Maria would have wanted moved over the weekend so everything would be in place to report to work on Monday. Plus DD may not have been home over the weekend too.

JMO [/*]

or she moved that weekend, can't imagine she had much to move, and reported her new address to her command on Monday, maybe.

[caejde]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


TY and looking back at Nov. '07's calendar the 5th was on a Monday.

Not that I find anything wrong with moving on a Monday but I would think Maria would have wanted moved over the weekend so everything would be in place to report to work on Monday. Plus DD may not have been home over the weekend too.

JMO [/*]

Maria lived in the barracks so it's not like she was having to move furniture. Clothes and uniforms, maybe a tv, stereo, gaming system and that would be it.

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


TY and looking back at Nov. '07's calendar the 5th was on a Monday.

Not that I find anything wrong with moving on a Monday but I would think Maria would have wanted moved over the weekend so everything would be in place to report to work on Monday. Plus DD may not have been home over the weekend too.

JMO [/*]
I agree with you.

[donna]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


One is still loose. :( [/*]

I don't think so, SS. It was in the PC a little while ago, and both were charged with murder. LE also stated that they could not respond to the question of whether or not the shootong was gang related!

I could be wrong, tho!

[hinman]

Originally posted by donna


I don't think so, SS. It was in the PC a little while ago, and both were charged with murder. LE also stated that they could not respond to the question of whether or not the shootong was gand related! [/*]They never caught the second suspect. They miss reported. bummer.

[donna]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Said the March encounter was consensual and the second one did not involve force or coersion, as per article above. [/*]

And that really IS what it says, Jas.S!!! It is clear!

:)

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by strick10


or she moved that weekend, can't imagine she had much to move, and reported her new address to her command on Monday, maybe. [/*]
I'm only guessing, but I think the Nov. 5th date probably came from the Document they found in Maria's bedroom :shrug:

She may have been moving in things prior to that before actually staying there.

[donna]

Originally posted by hinman
They never caught the second suspect. They miss reported. bummer. [/*]

:mad:

[caejde]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I'm only guessing, but I think the Nov. 5th date probably came from the Document they found in Maria's bedroom :shrug:

She may have been moving in things prior to that before actually staying there. [/*]

And as I posted upthread, she didn't have furniture...just clothes and uniforms, toiletries, etc. And at the most she would have a tv, stereo, gaming system.

Sounded like Durham's place was going to come furnished so she wouldn't have any need for furniture.

[hinman]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I'm only guessing, but I think the Nov. 5th date probably came from the Document they found in Maria's bedroom :shrug:

She may have been moving in things prior to that before actually staying there. [/*]Good thought. That is a possibility I had not thought of.

[strick10]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I'm only guessing, but I think the Nov. 5th date probably came from the Document they found in Maria's bedroom :shrug:

She may have been moving in things prior to that before actually staying there. [/*]

She may have been moving things prior to the 5th or moved after work on the 5th or took the day off on the 5th to move. I dunno. The 5 Nov 07 date that I've listed came from the MC presser.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Very o/t, but Atwater looked older than his years when he was 11 yrs old and I first met him. I knew him as a kid but would have never recognized him from the video they have been showing, although he has seemed a bit familiar. [/*]

Wow you knew Atwater! Would you have ever thought he would have or could have done something like this?

And if you feel this is too personal, you certainly don't have to respond.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I'm only guessing, but I think the Nov. 5th date probably came from the Document they found in Maria's bedroom :shrug:

She may have been moving in things prior to that before actually staying there. [/*]

You're speaking of the 'Terms and Conditions' document, correct?

See that's what I thought that document was pertaining to, Maria's staying at or renting DD's home in his absence.

JMO

[donna]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


You're speaking of the 'Terms and Conditions' document, correct?

See that's what I thought that document was pertaining to, Maria's staying at or renting DD's home in his absence.

JMO [/*]

That would be the most logical thing for it to be!

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by caejde


And as I posted upthread, she didn't have furniture...just clothes and uniforms, toiletries, etc. And at the most she would have a tv, stereo, gaming system.

Sounded like Durham's place was going to come furnished so she wouldn't have any need for furniture. [/*]

There goes that generational thing with me again ;) . I was thinking of all things, furniture, etc. TG I have only moved twice in my lifetime and that was ENOUGH for me!

JMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by strick10


And didn't her cousin also state on his personal page that Maria had recanted the rape allegations? Maybe I just don't remember quite clearly on her cousins words. [/*]

Is this the link that you're referring to, strick? I didn't see anything about recanting the allegations but did see this (excerpt)

Apparently NCIS was involved, which worried us, but initially, the family was optimistic, saying that perhaps she had just freaked out, panicked, and fled, and that it was possible that her rape allegations were false...

http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/16852.html

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Jas.S

So we can put that in the fact pile I think.

Along with anyone can sue the govt. [/*]

How are you defining "the government"? Suing a local government entity is different from suing a state government entity & a federal government entity. And suing the military is extraordinarily difficult to do. For one thing, before a federal lawsuit can go anywhere, a ruling has to be made BY the federal government agreeing to be sued!

It's called SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY.

Just ask the communities & people who have been affected by toxic waste sites on military installations which have been closed. There are a few EPA regulations that the military will accept as being relevant to them - the rest they fight tooth & nail (& successfully, too).

JMO

[nuttintodo]

LynnG, thank you for all the links you have saved and are ready to post them out like you do.

:rose:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Is this the link that you're referring to, strick? I didn't see anything about recanting the allegations but did see this (excerpt)

Apparently NCIS was involved, which worried us, but initially, the family was optimistic, saying that perhaps she had just freaked out, panicked, and fled, and that it was possible that her rape allegations were false...

http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/16852.html [/*]

This is it Lynn Gweeny! Thank you, thank you, thank you! That's why I stated in my post IIRC cause I couldn't remember if he used recanted or another phrase. Obviously I didn't remember the correct phrasing, but this is it. Thanks again, saves me some time in looking through all the links I have on my laptop.

[baywench]

Originally posted by Mystical


I notice you like to throw around words like despicable and disparaging. Here is what Coldwater has said on the subject of that poster -

Mimi428
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 2444

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by caejde


This is what Coldwater had to say on the subject of this former poster. This is from Coldwater herself via an email I sent her. And I have her permission to post this.

[/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Thanks for reposting CW's info - much appreciated.

I think this part of what she wrote covers ALL of the problem...

Had she been cooperative, not harassing & just discussed as A Juror does on Jensen, there would have been no problem.
As you state we have no way of proving who is who or if what they say is true so we monitor what IS said closely when they claim to know anyone connected with the people being discussed on the forum. If it is extremely personal or does not sound logical or could cause legal problems, the best for all posters concerned is to delete it and replies to it.

JMO



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-12-2008 11:58 AM

------------------------------------------------------

Now, if you have any questions or comments you should direct them to the person who decided Mrs. Renna should be banned. [/*]

I don't throw the words around....I know exactly what they mean and I can read also. JMO IMO

[donna]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Yes its logical but before you get excited, she could have put something on layaway- they give you a terms and conditions document too.
If you want to really go into lala land and further speculate, it could have been a nursery set......JMO [/*]

I have learned not to get too terribly excited! Just more logical than adoption papers, tho!

As for the term, "We're pregnant" - it wasn't being said when I had my babies either. If "We're pregnant", then "we" should help out in the labor and birth!

:D

[strick10]

Originally posted by donna


I have learned not to get too terribly excited! Just more logical than adoption papers, tho!

As for the term, "We're pregnant" - it wasn't being said when I had my babies either. If "We're pregnant", then "we" should help out in the labor and birth!

:D [/*]

Ha, ha and we know the other part of we will not help in the labor and birth, no way no how.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Her uncle, Peter Steiner, is the one who said she tried to withdraw the allegations. [/*]

You know, that's why I was wondering if they were locking her in and getting ready for a possible discharge.

I am eager to find out what the answers are to the questions in the letter about any disciplinary action in that month. I wonder what they are looking for?

Could it be the reference Lisa made to her leaving another time?

:confused: JMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by strick10


This is it Lynn Gweeny! Thank you, thank you, thank you! That's why I stated in my post IIRC cause I couldn't remember if he used recanted or another phrase. Obviously I didn't remember the correct phrasing, but this is it. Thanks again, saves me some time in looking through all the links I have on my laptop. [/*]

You're quite welcome. I didn't know if you were still here and I just wanted to help prevent you from having to search for it later. There are so many resources that sometimes it can take a lot of time to find exactly what you're looking for. Just holler if ya need something, lol.

btw ~ Thanks nuttin. :hat: (I've been busy over on the Gagnon trial, that was UNTIL CNN lost the live feed) :rolleyes:

[strick10]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


You know, that's why I was wondering if they were locking her in and getting ready for a possible discharge.

I am eager to find out what the answers are to the questions in the letter about any disciplinary action in that month. I wonder what they are looking for?

Could it be the reference Lisa made to her leaving another time?

:confused: JMO [/*]

I don't think it would've been due to Lisas' reference of Maria leaving another time. You bring up a good point in wondering if they were locking her in. I think her possible discharge all revolved around her statements and the rape allegations. I'm eager to find out what the answers are as well.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by strick10


And didn't her cousin also state on his personal page that Maria had recanted the rape allegations? Maybe I just don't remember quite clearly on her cousins words. [/*]

WOW STRICK, I missed her cousin's personal page. Do you have a link by chance?:)

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


You're speaking of the 'Terms and Conditions' document, correct?

See that's what I thought that document was pertaining to, Maria's staying at or renting DD's home in his absence.

JMO [/*]
Yes, that's what I was speaking of, but like I said I was only guessing. Also, there was a silver key and I assumed it was to DD's house :shrug:

[donna]

Originally posted by strick10


Ha, ha and we know the other part of we will not help in the labor and birth, no way no how. [/*]

:D

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


What do you mean "locking her in"? Just to be clear- [/*]

I mean that maybe they were holding her to her words until the matter was resolved in a legal manner of process. JMO tho and nothing more. :shrug:

[donna]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


No, I have never beleived any documents she had were adoption papers. Sorta LMAO on that one.
Yeah- my husband "delivered" his azz to the hospital w/ some lame flowers all 3 times- gee, thanks for your support-
but it wasn't ALL bad back then- we did get some pretty decent painkillers in the day... I had my 1st one natural, but NOt the 2nd and 3rd!!! No-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-0! [/*]

:lol:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


WOW STRICK, I missed her cousin's personal page. Do you have a link by chance?:) [/*]

I'm not strick but here's the link: http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/16852.html

If you remember Kel65 was the one who originally posted this.

[caejde]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


There goes that generational thing with me again ;) . I was thinking of all things, furniture, etc. TG I have only moved twice in my lifetime and that was ENOUGH for me!

JMO [/*]

I don't think it's a generational thing. When you live in the barracks, it's furnished with a bed, a wall locker for your clothing/uniforms, and I had a "secretary"...people put tv's, computers, radios and stuff up top and it had drawers in the bottom. You don't need a dining table because if you eat at the chow hall it's provided. And if you get take out, you just eat on your bed or at one of the chairs in your room.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


ok.

Like "locking in" her statements, being precise and recording everything she said? That kind of thing?

ETA: By "recording" I don't mean necessairly audio or video, I just mena making a record of something- writing it down w/ signatures all around? [/*]

Yes, that's what I am thinking Annie. Again, JMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Is this the link that you're referring to, strick?

http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/16852.html [/*]

<snipped>
Thanks for that link, I was not at all familiar with that.

From the link...

Part of what troubles me is the allegations that Maria was abused in the Corps and that no one did anything to stop it. Peter Steiner, one of Mary's brothers has stated that she was verbally abused, her car was keyed, and that she was physically assaulted by unknown assailants after she made her allegations.

I think we have all heard about the car keying & the punch in the face, but I just don't recall reading/hearing about verbal abuse being alleged.

What a heartbreaking read, all the way around.

JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I'm not strick but here's the link: http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/16852.html

If you remember Kel65 was the one who originally posted this. [/*]

Thanks, and now I do remember Kel bringing that link over. I just didn't make the connection at the time.

:patriot:

[caejde]

Originally posted by Mimi428


<snipped>
Thanks for that link, I was not at all familiar with that.

From the link...

Part of what troubles me is the allegations that Maria was abused in the Corps and that no one did anything to stop it. Peter Steiner, one of Mary's brothers has stated that she was verbally abused, her car was keyed, and that she was physically assaulted by unknown assailants after she made her allegations.

I think we have all heard about the car keying & the punch in the face, but I just don't recall reading/hearing about verbal abuse being alleged.

What a heartbreaking read, all the way around.

JMO [/*]

I think the verbal abuse is allegedly from Christina who called her a "bee" word and asked "What are you doing to us"...paraphrasing.

[caejde]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Sounds typical of college-dorm type living?
Is is co-ed. meaning men and women on the same floors/ same buildings? [/*]

Yes, same floor and building but not same rooms!

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde


I think the verbal abuse is allegedly from Christina who called her a "bee" word and asked "What are you doing to us"...paraphrasing. [/*]

Yes, that's pretty much it from what I remember too.

[caejde]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I'm not strick but here's the link: http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/16852.html

If you remember Kel65 was the one who originally posted this. [/*]

This was the first I had read about this as well. What in the world was he doing in Africa?? And he said that Maria was adopted by distant relatives of Mary.

Interesting how he mentions something about false rape allegations.

[caejde]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


And first time I have ever heard fetal alcohol syndrome mentioned too. [/*]

Yes, me too. From what Mary said in the interview, I thought it was just the parents not taking care of the children and such.

Which makes me wonder...did Mary and Victor ever have Anne and Maria in any kind of counseling as they got older. Did they seek help in finding out if she had any behavioral problems like ADD or ADHD or something else. If that were me, I believe I would have gotten them seen just because of the situation they had been in.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by caejde


I don't think it's a generational thing. When you live in the barracks, it's furnished with a bed, a wall locker for your clothing/uniforms, and I had a "secretary"...people put tv's, computers, radios and stuff up top and it had drawers in the bottom. You don't need a dining table because if you eat at the chow hall it's provided. And if you get take out, you just eat on your bed or at one of the chairs in your room. [/*]

caejde, I wasn't even thing barracks room. I picturing in my mind all the stuff that we have acculmated over the years and the dreaded thought of moving. That's what I meant about the generational thing.

Yes Maria's moving would have been simple since all she basically had was her clothing, etc.

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


caejde, I wasn't even thing barracks room. I picturing in my mind all the stuff that we have acculmated over the years and the dreaded thought of moving. That's what I meant about the generational thing.

Yes Maria's moving would have been simple since all she basically had was her clothing, etc.

JMO [/*]

Oh, don't I know. I moved from my apartment out in town in HI to on base. From on base, stuff shipped to GA. What stuff was mine, I took to NC and then from NC to PA and then just back down to NC....too much!

[caejde]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


"was not going to be college material"- maybe she was what some ppl call a slow-normal? Would that keep her out of the military? What degree of intelligence does a Marine have to possess to even be a candidate? I was always under the impression they are cream of the crop. Smart. Not exactly a child of fetal alcohol, or was she, and thats why she struggled with appropriate decisions, etc? [/*]

I've seen people with book smart but not common sense smart and people common sense smart but not book smart. As long as her ASVAB scores didn't fall below the minimum she could get in. She made it through bootcamp-which you do take a test on history and through her MOS school which consists of tests as well.

[caejde]

Originally posted by caejde


I've seen people with book smart but not common sense smart and people common sense smart but not book smart. As long as her ASVAB scores didn't fall below the minimum she could get in. She made it through bootcamp-which you do take a test on history and through her MOS school which consists of tests as well. [/*]

Just in my short MOS schooling, which was like a couple of weeks, we had a test every few days. School was from morning-usually 7:30 til afternoon 4:30-5 with a break for lunch. Sometimes we were given pop quizzes as well.

[caejde]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
outcomes of children born with fetal alcohol syndrome

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/factsheets/FAS.pdf


FWIW. JMO. Look at the behavior problems kids have...jus sayin [/*]

Sad stuff.

[strick10]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


WOW STRICK, I missed her cousin's personal page. Do you have a link by chance?:) [/*]

Just catching up. Drove from work to home as quickly and as safely as I could. Hope I'm not reporting another posters link. Lynn Gweeny posted above, but here it is again.

http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde


Yes, same floor and building but not same rooms! [/*]

And may I add, the living arrangements caejde mentions didn't begin until about 1984-85. Prior to that female Marines had a billeting building all to themselves. The one I lived in was surrounded by a very high fence w/ barbed wire. Men could not enter the fenced area after dark. They had to stand at the gate and yell for the duty in order to get any assistance.

[donna]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
Jeez its still broad daylight out at 6:30pm. How bizarre.
Time change has me feeling blah- I'm going to bed- night all-

:seeya:
AB [/*]

:seeya: .... Have a good night, Annie!

[strick10]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
Jeez its still broad daylight out at 6:30pm. How bizarre.
Time change has me feeling blah- I'm going to bed- night all-

:seeya:
AB [/*]
:seeya:

[martha]

I can;t help but think about ml and cl working in the same office togeather. you know i worked in one office 13 years and another one 28 years and i seen a lot of affairs going on and a lot of marrages broken up. when they work so close in the office they get to talking about their home life and before you know it they or meeting out side the office. it would be the ones i would never think would do anything like that. some were my best friends and I sure hated it. broken home children in them and it was just sad. the wife would get so mad and do something crazy to the other woman or the man. when you love someone and they hurt you it makes you do crazy things that you wish you had not done.just saying they could have gotten really close at one time and maybe cl promised ml he would leave his wife and go with her until the day she was going to leave and he changed his mind. I wish he had just let her go tho and not killed her and the baby. :rose:

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10

:seeya: [/*]

Trying to send you a PM...but your box is full! Spring cleaning time!

[strick10]

Originally posted by martha
I can;t help but think about ml and cl working in the same office togeather. you know i worked in one office 13 years and another one 28 years and i seen a lot of affairs going on and a lot of marrages broken up. when they work so close in the office they get to talking about their home life and before you know it they or meeting out side the office. it would be the ones i would never think would do anything like that. some were my best friends and I sure hated it. broken home children in them and it was just sad. the wife would get so mad and do something crazy to the other woman or the man. when you love someone and they hurt you it makes you do crazy things that you wish you had not done.just saying they could have gotten really close at one time and maybe cl promised ml he would leave his wife and go with her until the day she was going to leave and he changed his mind. I wish he had just let her go tho and not killed her and the baby. :rose: [/*]

You're right, he should've just let her go. Unfortunately something hit a nerve that caused quite the opposite.

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde


Trying to send you a PM...but your box is full! Spring cleaning time! [/*]

Swept and swabbed....

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


Swept and swabbed.... [/*]

K, thank you!

[strick10]

Originally posted by old_lady
I sometimes wonder how any young person in this day and [/*]

When I posted that post I said IIRC as I was not for certain what was the exact wording on the site and I did not have immediate access to the link/site. Thanks to Lynn she produced it. Again, I could not recall the exact wording.

[martha]

Originally posted by strick10


You're right, he should've just let her go. Unfortunately something hit a nerve that caused quite the opposite. [/*] Yes i think so too. the wife maybe what happened that awful day. Hi GentleBreeze I miss see you on here and thank for asking my family is doing very good. hope your or ok too.:rose:

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady
I sometimes wonder how any young person in this day and [/*]

Just because Maria was 20 and young, she probably wasn't thinking about safe sex or anything of the sort. CDC reported that 1 in 4 female teens have an STD. They don't think it will happen to them-STD, pregnancy, anything. They take those chances. And sometimes even with taking precautions, there are slip ups as nothing is 100% except abstinence. Just because Maria wasn't prepared and got pregnant doesn't necessarily mean she was raped. The only things we know that happened is that the first encounter was consensual. The second encounter was no coercion, no blackmail, no force, stopped when asked.

No, the cousin did not say anything about her trying to drop the allegations. Her uncle was the one that stated she was trying but NCIS says no. The only thing Maria did was say the pregnancy wasn't a result of the rape.

[donna]

Originally posted by Coldwater




Now that I have verification she is who she said she was it is OK to use her name. No one could or would give me proof prior to this. [/*]

Thank you, Coldwater!

[nuttintodo]

I am about to go over and start a new thread that will contain the questions that will go to RS tomorrow.

Please go over and look at the questions and if anyone thinks some are out of line and/or need to be deleted, please say so.

Currently there are 46 questions.

Thanks to everyone who has posted and/or sent questions in. We have a really great group of posters and lots of great questions too!

jmo

[martha]

GentleBreeze I am keeping up with you on here reading all your post. I don;t have to post much because you say things just the way i am thinking. I just agree with you and some of the other posters. lol:rose:

[Marcia3]

Hi martha! It's so good to "see" you again!

I have seen lots of affairs in the places where I have worked. Some have actually gone on to marry, and about half of them have since divorced. But most of the affairs ended badly, with things being said and done that made my hair curl!

ITA--he should've just let her go, left her alone.

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady


I'm sorry, but I don't think the uncle said that. I don't remember that. jmoo [/*]

it was in a video. I don't have the link. But I remember seeing it. Don't have to believe me though.

Lynn, if you are around, can you find the link where the uncle is saying Maria tried to drop the allegations? I don't remember where it's at. Thanks!

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


And first time I have ever heard fetal alcohol syndrome mentioned too. [/*]

I will be floored if it turns out that Maria had any of the Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders AND was accepted into the USMC. Surely her ASVAB scores would not have been acceptable if she met the diagnostic criteria for any of the FASDs.

JMO

[donna]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
I am about to go over and start a new thread that will contain the questions that will go to RS tomorrow.

Please go over and look at the questions and if anyone thinks some are out of line and/or need to be deleted, please say so.

Currently there are 46 questions.

Thanks to everyone who has posted and/or sent questions in. We have a really great group of posters and lots of great questions too!

jmo [/*]

Thanks, nuttin! Hinman asked what I had wanted asked, so I do not have another question - well, I do, but not one that would be answered!!!

:)

[Kel65]

Originally posted by caejde


This was the first I had read about this as well. What in the world was he doing in Africa?? And he said that Maria was adopted by distant relatives of Mary.

Interesting how he mentions something about false rape allegations. [/*]

This cousin is the son of Steve Lauterbach, Maria's uncle who was one of the Iranian Crisis Hostages in the 70's. He works for the U.S. State Dept. He was probably stationed in Africa at the time.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by Coldwater




Now that I have verification she is who she said she was it is OK to use her name. No one could or would give me proof prior to this. [/*]
Whew, thanks so much CW, that's a load off :D

[martha]

Originally posted by Marcia3
Hi martha! It's so good to "see" you again!

I have seen lots of affairs in the places where I have worked. Some have actually gone on to marry, and about half of them have since divorced. But most of the affairs ended badly, with things being said and done that made my hair curl!

ITA--he should've just let her go, left her alone. [/*] ITA one girl was one of my best friends and i could not believe she would do something like that but they both worked with me and they or married now. they act like they or happy but he come to work and tell the men all about their personal life like braging I just wish they would not break up homes like that. someone gets hurt really bad.:rose:

[bkwits]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I'm not strick but here's the link: http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/16852.html

If you remember Kel65 was the one who originally posted this. [/*]

Thank you very much, Nuttin. There is something there that I haven't seen before-- that her credit card was used on Dec. 20, so they thoght she was still alive then. Anyone know anything about that?

[Kel65]

Originally posted by Coldwater




Now that I have verification she is who she said she was it is OK to use her name. No one could or would give me proof prior to this. [/*]

Thanks for the information.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I will be floored if it turns out that Maria had any of the Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders AND was accepted into the USMC. Surely her ASVAB scores would not have been acceptable if she met the diagnostic criteria for any of the FASDs.

JMO [/*]

What is this about Maria possibly having FASD? Did I miss something that indicated she possibly had this?

Mimi this isn't directed at you personally. I'm just questioning how and why it's come up that there's the possiblity that Maria had FASD.

And I'd be floored too if it turns out she did.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by Kel65


This cousin is the son of Steve Lauterbach, Maria's uncle who was one of the Iranian Crisis Hostages in the 70's. He works for the U.S. State Dept. He was probably stationed in Africa at the time. [/*]

Hey Kel :seeya: Any luck on the Guido (sp) name?

[Kel65]

Originally posted by strick10


Hey Kel :seeya: Any luck on the Guido (sp) name? [/*]

Nothing yet on Gudino. I haven't given up yet.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I will be floored if it turns out that Maria had any of the Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders AND was accepted into the USMC. Surely her ASVAB scores would not have been acceptable if she met the diagnostic criteria for any of the FASDs.

JMO [/*]

If her ASVAB scores did not meet the minmum requirement she would not have been allowed to enlist. Don't know for sure if they still do it but they used to retest you on the ASVAB in boot camp. If she had FASD wouldn't that have been diagnosed in her youth?

[baywench]

Originally posted by bkwits


Thank you very much, Nuttin. There is something there that I haven't seen before-- that her credit card was used on Dec. 20, so they thoght she was still alive then. Anyone know anything about that? [/*]

Wasn't that the same day the cell phone was found also?

[Kel65]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


What is this about Maria possibly having FASD? Did I miss something that indicated she possibly had this?

Mimi this isn't directed at you personally. I'm just questioning how and why it's come up that there's the possiblity that Maria had FASD.

And I'd be floored too if it turns out she did.

JMO [/*]

The cousin mentioned FASD on his blog. This is partially why I am so interested in trying to learn more info on Maria's bio parents.

http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/16852.html

[henry]

Originally posted by Kel65


Nothing yet on Gudino. I haven't given up yet. [/*]

iirc that's one of the questions being submitted . . . jmo 'cause it's after 7 p.m. :)

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


If her ASVAB scores did not meet the minmum requirement she would not have been allowed to enlist. Don't know for sure if they still do it but they used to retest you on the ASVAB in boot camp. If she had FASD wouldn't that have been diagnosed in her youth? [/*]

I didn't take the ASVAB again in bootcamp. I had the option of retaking it prior to see if my scores would come up in any area. But I didn't because my scores were relatively good.

But I thought Fetal Alcohol would be diagnosed at birth or sometime in the next couple years after. That is why I wondered if Mary and Victor ever had Maria and Anne tested for anything or ever in counseling.

[martha]

Thanks Marcia3 I am hear reading all the post most of the time but when i am gone a week i get lost not knowing what you all have learned when i am not here.;lol Please keep posting I love reading them all. I just seen so very many love affairs start in offices. no matter what was going on cl did not have to kill ml and the baby.:rose: I wish they would start covering it again on the news.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by baywench


Wasn't that the same day the cell phone was found also? [/*]

Yep that was the day Maria's cell was found by a stranded motorist along Hwy. 24 outside of the Main Gate.

My first thought is 20th is another error (just like the many mis-reports/mis-statements we've had) as we've only been told of two withdrawals (well one attempted) and they were on the 14th by Maria and the 24th allegedly by CAL.

But, as we as seen so far in this case, we just do not know the whole story so there may have been an attempt on the 20th as well and it just hasn't been made public.

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by old_lady
I sometimes wonder how any young person in this day and age would not prepare for having sex by using birth control. Since Maria got pregnant, I don't think she was prepared. That's what leads me to think her rape allegations were true. Well, that and the fact we have nearly no information about what happened. The MC said they would only release the bare minimum on that investigation for obvious reasons.

I don't see anything in the cousin's post that says he knew Maria had tried to drop the rape allegations. Nor from the MC, nor from her relatives.

I believe the confusion is because Maria did contact the investigators about how she no longer felt the baby the result of rape.

It was also said she never did drop the rape allegations.

I think it is a little disparaging to Maria for that to be posted about her without a link to go with it.

jmoo [/*]

Well, there are two sides being told to the rape story --
Maria's side is that she was raped by Cesar
Cesar's side is that he never any sexual contact with her. Of course he said he didn't kill her either.

But many on the board make up their own story.

I agree that the lack of birth control lends credence to Maria's rape allegation. Ciccarelli of NCIS says the rape allegation is ongoing. It has never been dropped. He said that in the press conference with Sheriff Brown.

No one believed her then and many don't believe her now even though her rapist apparently killed her and ran away.


:shrug: I don't get it.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by old_lady


He said around the 20th or so. He might have just been off on the date. jmoo [/*]

Do you think he could have been referring to her ATM card?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Kel65


The cousin mentioned FASD on his blog. This is partially why I am so interested in trying to learn more info on Maria's bio parents.

http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/16852.html [/*]

Kel, thanks, I was just curious where this came from about Maria possibly having FASD.

And in reading his most recent blog entry of yesterday he says he's going to get on "the wagon". http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/2008/03/12/


JMO

[henry]

Originally posted by bkwits


Well, there are two sides being told to the rape story --
Maria's side is that she was raped by Cesar
Cesar's side is that he never any sexual contact with her. Of course he said he didn't kill her either.

But many on the board make up their own story.

I agree that the lack of birth control lends credence to Maria's rape allegation. Ciccarelli of NCIS says the rape allegation is ongoing. It has never been dropped. He said that in the press conference with Sheriff Brown.

No one believed her then and many don't believe her now even though her rapist apparently killed her and ran away.


:shrug: I don't get it. [/*]

please add to this uncle steiner . . . as i've said before, i find him the most credible - jmo

[baywench]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Yep that was the day Maria's cell was found by a stranded motorist along Hwy. 24 outside of the Main Gate.

My first thought is 20th is another error (just like the many mis-reports/mis-statements we've had) as we've only been told of two withdrawals (well one attempted) and they were on the 14th by Maria and the 24th allegedly by CAL.

But, as we as seen so far in this case, we just do not know the whole story so there may have been an attempt on the 20th as well and it just hasn't been made public.

JMO [/*]

Dang nuttin...I was thinking of a credit card as opposed to her bank card..you're right it's probably the same thing. I have to take my AHA! hat off.

[Kel65]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Kel, thanks, I was just curious where this came from about Maria possibly having FASD.

And in reading his most recent blog entry of yesterday he says he's going to get on "the wagon". http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/2008/03/12/


JMO [/*]

Wow, I'm amazed at what people will docment about themselves on the web.

Good for him if he recognizes he has a problem and wants to do something about it.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


Well, there are two sides being told to the rape story --
Maria's side is that she was raped by Cesar
Cesar's side is that he never any sexual contact with her. Of course he said he didn't kill her either.

But many on the board make up their own story.

I agree that the lack of birth control lends credence to Maria's rape allegation. Ciccarelli of NCIS says the rape allegation is ongoing. It has never been dropped. He said that in the press conference with Sheriff Brown.

No one believed her then and many don't believe her now even though her rapist apparently killed her and ran away.


:shrug: I don't get it. [/*]

I really don't think we can rely on the lack of birth control to substantiate that a rape occurred. Unplanned pregnancies happen in this country all the time and most of the time it has nothing to do with rape.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by henry


please add to this uncle steiner . . . as i've said before, i find him the most credible - jmo [/*]

Wasn't he the one that said Maria was going to drop the allegation complaint about a week before she went missing? And he came out and said that the MC had diagnosed Maria as being bi-polar?

imoo

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I can totally see myself in the "not wanting to sit alone on Saturday nights" IF I was a single person right now, at my age. But CSL was young- she wasn't thinking about another old fart to sit around and fight over the remote with, she could go OUT, meet new guys (ok, I'll say it- she still was highly marketable, even if she did have the little girl...), party with her single girlfriends, life in the future wasn't exactly looking that grim...jmo
(esp if he was a husb she had to "keep tabs" on. thats alot of work...) [/*]

I'm 65, was cheated on when young and stayed for several years. Some good times and some bad times afterwards.

Since it's not uncommon, I've had friends and known others that affairs happened in their marriage too, women and men.

I was young, crazy jealous, didn't want to be alone and my husband was my possession (in retrospect I know that is how I felt). My friends have said the same thing. Thank God I didn't, but I could have killed THE OTHER WOMAN, I wanted my possession.

I'm old now, and I know it's affairs of the heart not sexual affairs that are the most personally damaging. There are worse things in life that can happen to you than your SO having a sexual fling. It hurts terribly but you can survive it, some young people
don't know that yet and they act accordingly.

That is how I view CSL's situation, she hadn't lived long enough to have the maturity and know she could survive without her possession.

AIMO of course.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by caejde


it was in a video. I don't have the link. But I remember seeing it. Don't have to believe me though.

Lynn, if you are around, can you find the link where the uncle is saying Maria tried to drop the allegations? I don't remember where it's at. Thanks! [/*]

The video I had is now deleted, but this one has an interview with the Uncle and he mentions dropping the allegations due to the harrassment at @ 1:20 into the video:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4124792&affil=kabc

[henry]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Wasn't he the one that said Maria was going to drop the allegation complaint about a week before she went missing? And he came out and said that the MC had diagnosed Maria as being bi-polar?

imoo [/*]

iirc he (the uncle) said that she moved off base because of the harrassment & because maria felt the mc was not taking her claim seriously . . . the bi-polar thing i'm not aware of him saying.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by bkwits


Well, there are two sides being told to the rape story --
Maria's side is that she was raped by Cesar
Cesar's side is that he never any sexual contact with her. Of course he said he didn't kill her either.

But many on the board make up their own story.

I agree that the lack of birth control lends credence to Maria's rape allegation. Ciccarelli of NCIS says the rape allegation is ongoing. It has never been dropped. He said that in the press conference with Sheriff Brown.

No one believed her then and many don't believe her now even though her rapist apparently killed her and ran away.


:shrug: I don't get it. [/*]

There wasn't evidence to prove a rape charge then, and I have seen nothing that adds to it now. He was never charged. She OTOH had issues with credibility to include what her mother said about lies and the one whopper we do know of from the military.

She chose to tell her mother one story and the USMC another. She had a relationship with a married man according to several of her friends. She then accused the married man of raping her ONE MONTH after she claimed it took place. That is suspect IMO.

And you wonder why nobody just signs off on rape charges? I don't and we only have what her own family has said and very little from the USMC coupled with statements from several friends.

I could see a fabricated rape allegation driving someone over the edge if THEY KNOW the allegation is false, but fear the consequences. There are no guarantees when all is saidk and done.

IF you really believed that Maria was raped by Cesar Laurean, then I am baffled at how you would explain her going to his home or having any contact with him whatsoever, and we know they had contact prior to her going there from Capt. Sutherland.


There is no way in the world I would set foot in the home of a man who raped me and I'll bet I am one of many who feel comfortable making that statement.

*There is no rapist for the record, but there is a man who is charged with murder and that charge was levied after sufficient evidence was presented to a grand jury IIRC.


JMOOC.
:(

[Kel65]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


There wasn't evidence to prove a rape charge then, and I have seen nothing that adds to it now. He was never charged. She OTOH had issues with credibility to include what her mother said about lies and the one whopper we do know of from the military.

She chose to tell her mother one story and the USMC another. She had a relationship with a married man according to several of her friends. She then accused the married man of raping her ONE MONTH after she claimed it took place. That is suspect IMO.

And you wonder why nobody just signs off on rape charges? I don't and we only have what her own family has said and very little from the USMC coupled with statements from several friends.

I could see a fabricated rape allegation driving someone over the edge if THEY KNOW the allegation is false, but fear the consequences. There are no guarantees when all is saidk and done.

IF you really believed that Maria was raped by Cesar Laurean, then I am baffled at how you would explain her going to his home or having any contact with him whatsoever, and we know they had contact prior to her going there from Capt. Sutherland.


There is no way in the world I would set foot in the home of a man who raped me and I'll bet I am one of many who feel comfortable making that statement.

*There is no rapist for the record, but there is a man who is charged with murder and that charge was levied after sufficient evidence was presented to a grand jury IIRC.


JMOOC.
:( [/*]

I agree with what you said Candy.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I really don't think we can rely on the lack of birth control to substantiate that a rape occurred. Unplanned pregnancies happen in this country all the time and most of the time it has nothing to do with rape.

imoo [/*]

I don't think it substantiates anything. I think Maria's statements that she was raped by Cesar, her brutal muder (I think by Cesar), and coldness in the burying and burning, and the cowardly fleeing, leaving his wife and child to face this, tell me all I need to know.

JMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by dave sargent
Catching UP.....

Regarding the Congressman's Letter, I wonder if He even read it much less wrote it :confused: I would certainly hope someone sitting on our Armed Forces Committee would have a better Working knowledge of the Armed Forces.

Anyhoo, According to this article == Maria didn't report the "threats"



http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html


It was previously discussed that Maria didnt report the Christina Confrontation either, IIRC. [/*]

I don't know about the Christina confrontation but NCIS Agent Cicarrelli was quoted as saying this:

There were two times when Lauterbach did report being the victim of an attack on base between when she reported the sexual assaults and when she disappeared, said Paul Ciccarelli, special agent in charge aboard the base for Naval Criminal Investigative Service.

The first was when her car was keyed in the parking lot of a barracks in May, he said. The second time, she said a man hit her in the face but specifically said the man was not Laurean.

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/lauterbach_54593___article.html/hill_laurean.html

[nuttintodo]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I really don't think we can rely on the lack of birth control to substantiate that a rape occurred. Unplanned pregnancies happen in this country all the time and most of the time it has nothing to do with rape.

imoo [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the lack of the use of any birth control (by either party involved) only shows that Maria became pregnant with Gabriel.



JMO :seeya:

[strick10]

Originally posted by dave sargent
Catching UP.....

Regarding the Congressman's Letter, I wonder if He even read it much less wrote it :confused: I would certainly hope someone sitting on our Armed Forces Committee would have a better Working knowledge of the Armed Forces.

Anyhoo, According to this article == Maria didn't report the "threats"



http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html


It was previously discussed that Maria didnt report the Christina Confrontation either, IIRC. [/*]

Punched so hard by a male that she was knocked to the floor would surely have left a telling mark and I would think medical attention would be neccessary. IIRC when this happened she was already working in the same building as her UVA and in a different section. I'm sure any mark on her face to the degree I imagine the punch would've left would've been questioned.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


The video I had is now deleted, but this one has an interview with the Uncle and he mentions dropping the allegations due to the harrassment at @ 1:20 into the video:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4124792&affil=kabc [/*]
Thanks so much Lynn.

See how comments made, and media reports vary.

Uncle says she withdrew the Rape allegation, and in the Media is said on Nov. 5 - Lauterbach changes her official statement that her pregnancy resulted from an alleged rape.

It appears that Uncle got his information from his sister Mary at the time of that interview. Maybe his misspoke, OR did the media at wral.com not factually report:shrug:

[henry]

Originally posted by dave sargent



Wonder WHO she reported them To??? Did Ciccarelli get this Info from the Email?? Because He also said that She did not feel threatened iirc & moo. I just caught that comment from Mary and found it very strange. [/*]

and i'd like to know what the mc individual that received that info did with it

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


I don't know about the Christina confrontation but NCIS Agent Cicarrelli was quoted as saying this:

There were two times when Lauterbach did report being the victim of an attack on base between when she reported the sexual assaults and when she disappeared, said Paul Ciccarelli, special agent in charge aboard the base for Naval Criminal Investigative Service.

The first was when her car was keyed in the parking lot of a barracks in May, he said. The second time, she said a man hit her in the face but specifically said the man was not Laurean.

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/lauterbach_54593___article.html/hill_laurean.html [/*]

I think, unless I'm badly mistaken, the only place we heard of the confrontation between CSL and Maria was on NG's show. Maria may very well have told her mother too but I don't think Maria reported this confrontation to NCIS/USMC and/or her VA.

JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by henry


and i'd like to know what the mc individual that received that info did with it [/*]

Me too.

[baywench]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I really don't think we can rely on the lack of birth control to substantiate that a rape occurred. Unplanned pregnancies happen in this country all the time and most of the time it has nothing to do with rape.

imoo [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the lack of the use of any birth control (by either party involved) only shows that Maria became pregnant with Gabriel.



JMO :seeya: [/*]

In a nutshell Nuttin!

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Punched so hard by a male that she was knocked to the floor would surely have left a telling mark and I would think medical attention would be neccessary. IIRC when this happened she was already working in the same building as her UVA and in a different section. I'm sure any mark on her face to the degree I imagine the punch would've left would've been questioned. [/*]

I would think so too strick. Surely if Maria reported to her duty station and she was observed with a bruise, etc., someone, especially her VA should have asked her what happened considering she then supposedly in her VA's section.

JMO

[henry]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Me too. [/*]

okay, i'll ask the "just curious" question that's gotten me into oodles of trouble :) . . . any story you'd like to share about how you came up with your nic? tia

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


There wasn't evidence to prove a rape charge then, and I have seen nothing that adds to it now. He was never charged. She OTOH had issues with credibility to include what her mother said about lies and the one whopper we do know of from the military.

She chose to tell her mother one story and the USMC another. She had a relationship with a married man according to several of her friends. She then accused the married man of raping her ONE MONTH after she claimed it took place. That is suspect IMO.

And you wonder why nobody just signs off on rape charges? I don't and we only have what her own family has said and very little from the USMC coupled with statements from several friends.

I could see a fabricated rape allegation driving someone over the edge if THEY KNOW the allegation is false, but fear the consequences. There are no guarantees when all is saidk and done.

IF you really believed that Maria was raped by Cesar Laurean, then I am baffled at how you would explain her going to his home or having any contact with him whatsoever, and we know they had contact prior to her going there from Capt. Sutherland.


There is no way in the world I would set foot in the home of a man who raped me and I'll bet I am one of many who feel comfortable making that statement.

*There is no rapist for the record, but there is a man who is charged with murder and that charge was levied after sufficient evidence was presented to a grand jury IIRC.


JMOOC.
:( [/*]
Good post CK !

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by dave sargent



Wonder WHO she reported them To??? Did Ciccarelli get this Info from the Email?? Because He also said that She did not feel threatened iirc & moo. I just caught that comment from Mary and found it very strange. [/*]

This comment by Mr. Cicarrelli about the two incidents was at the 1/15 Marine Corps PC where he also corrected himself about not knowing about the MPO which he said he was not aware of at the 1/11 PC with Sheriff Brown. JMO, but possibly he spoke with the Uniform Victim's Advocate assigned to Maria, Megan Grafton.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by henry


okay, i'll ask the "just curious" question that's gotten me into oodles of trouble :) . . . any story you'd like to share about how you came up with your nic? tia [/*]

Incoming henry, incoming! LOL

[donna]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


There wasn't evidence to prove a rape charge then, and I have seen nothing that adds to it now. He was never charged. She OTOH had issues with credibility to include what her mother said about lies and the one whopper we do know of from the military.

She chose to tell her mother one story and the USMC another. She had a relationship with a married man according to several of her friends. She then accused the married man of raping her ONE MONTH after she claimed it took place. That is suspect IMO.

And you wonder why nobody just signs off on rape charges? I don't and we only have what her own family has said and very little from the USMC coupled with statements from several friends.

I could see a fabricated rape allegation driving someone over the edge if THEY KNOW the allegation is false, but fear the consequences. There are no guarantees when all is saidk and done.

IF you really believed that Maria was raped by Cesar Laurean, then I am baffled at how you would explain her going to his home or having any contact with him whatsoever, and we know they had contact prior to her going there from Capt. Sutherland.


There is no way in the world I would set foot in the home of a man who raped me and I'll bet I am one of many who feel comfortable making that statement.

*There is no rapist for the record, but there is a man who is charged with murder and that charge was levied after sufficient evidence was presented to a grand jury IIRC.


JMOOC.
:( [/*]

CANDYKISSES, there was a time that I would have argued with you tooth and nail over your post on the rape allegation. Now I tend to agree with you. However, I tend to think that Maria reported it as a rape because her mother told her she should. She had also gone on to say to Maria that it could ruin the man's career. I think Maria was really upset when she called her mother as has been stated in the article written about it. I believe that Maria just could not tell her mother that CAL was married and that they had dated. IIRC, Mary was coming out of a store and it was in the afternoon when Maria called her. Maria did not tell Mary that she and CAL had ever had consensual sex. Why? I just think it snowballed into a rape allegation.

I believe that Maria went to CAL's house on the afternoon of December 14th. I also believe the two of them had had a relationship. I do believe that Maria had tried to withdraw the rape accusation.

Sorry to take up so much space, but this is my honest opinion. And no offense is meant to anyone believing differently!

CAL is a POS and Maria and Gabriel did not deserve to be murdered. I want to see justice for them.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


The video I had is now deleted, but this one has an interview with the Uncle and he mentions dropping the allegations due to the harrassment at @ 1:20 into the video:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4124792&affil=kabc [/*]

Yes, here Peter Steiner says Maria dropped the allegation one week prior to her going missing.

Now that said, he also denies any relationship and tries to downplay what Mary had said about the lies too.

I believe the friends who have come out and spoken about them having a relationship as opposed to the family who didn't see or know what was really going on at CLJ IMO.

I believe Maria was telling her family one thing and the USMC another.

Her uncle tries to explain the lies by saying that when she is pressed, she would exaggerate. I think that's what happened in a nutshell with the allegations. He also goes on to remove any responsibility about what was told to the authorities by saying they thought it was a private conversation. But that it didn't make anything better or worse because nothing was really being done. Paraphrased here.

I have never heard Mary speak to two allegations of rape, rather it was always one. We know there were two in the beginning and then it became one. It's not hard for me to see why the USMC had such a time with this one.

JMO tho.

[baywench]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I would think so too strick. Surely if Maria reported to her duty station and she was observed with a bruise, etc., someone, especially her VA should have asked her what happened considering she then supposedly in her VA's section.

JMO [/*]

Whew I am so glad you addressed that issue. I was really afraid to question that one since I seem to be the the poster child for disparagement! LOL

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by donna


CANDYKISSES, there was a time that I would have argued with you tooth and nail over your post on the rape allegation. Now I tend to agree with you. However, I tend to think that Maria reported it as a rape because her mother told her she should. She had also gone on to say to Maria that it could ruin the man's career. I think Maria was really upset when she called her mother as has been stated in the article written about it. I believe that Maria just could not tell her mother that CAL was married and that they had dated. IIRC, Mary was coming out of a store and it was in the afternoon when Maria called her. Maria did not tell Mary that she and CAL had ever had consensual sex. Why? I just think it snowballed into a rape allegation.

I believe that Maria went to CAL's house on the afternoon of December 14th. I also believe the two of them had had a relationship. I do believe that Maria had tried to withdraw the rape accusation.

Sorry to take up so much space, but this is my honest opinion. And no offense is meant to anyone believing differently!

CAL is a POS and Maria and Gabriel did not deserve to be murdered. I want to see justice for them. [/*]

I understand where you're coming from Donna and I too believe the rape allegation was born out of need at the time. She was in the corner as I posted above and a lie was born IMO. When her mother told her what she needed to do, she went with it. Given that she took Criminal Justice in VOTECH, she had to know the cards were stacked against her one month later, but I maintain she was fearing pregnancy already.

Remember, March 17th when her nephew was born, she was excited and probably had no real fears. But when confronted with the fact CESAR was married and not a nice guy, she bolted from reality to survive IMO.

ALL JMO and ITA with your post. :(

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I really don't think we can rely on the lack of birth control to substantiate that a rape occurred. Unplanned pregnancies happen in this country all the time and most of the time it has nothing to do with rape.

imoo [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the lack of the use of any birth control (by either party involved) only shows that Maria became pregnant with Gabriel.



JMO :seeya: [/*]

I agree.

imo:seeya:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


This comment by Mr. Cicarrelli about the two incidents was at the 1/15 Marine Corps PC where he also corrected himself about not knowing about the MPO which he said he was not aware of at the 1/11 PC with Sheriff Brown. JMO, but possibly he spoke with the Uniform Victim's Advocate assigned to Maria, Megan Grafton. [/*]

I'm confused. I thought Gafton was the NCIS officer/investigator.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I really don't think we can rely on the lack of birth control to substantiate that a rape occurred. Unplanned pregnancies happen in this country all the time and most of the time it has nothing to do with rape.

imoo [/*]

Absolutely!

[donna]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I understand where you're coming from Donna and I too believe the rape allegation was born out of need at the time. She was in the corner as I posted above and a lie was born IMO. When her mother told her what she needed to do, she went with it. Given that she took Criminal Justice in VOTECH, she had to know the cards were stacked against her one month later, but I maintain she was fearing pregnancy already.

Remember, March 17th when her nephew was born, she was excited and probably had no real fears. But when confronted with the fact CESAR was married and not a nice guy, she bolted from reality to survive IMO.

ALL JMO and ITA with your post. :( [/*]

And the sad part of it was that Maria was trying to please everyone and wound up pleasing no one. I think she wanted to keep Baby Gabriel and no one wanted her to!
The stress she had to have gone through had to be tremendous!

I am furious at the POS that got her into this position to begin with - a married man with a family of his own! He is a vicious murderer!

:flamemad:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by old_lady


The uncle was very upset in this video and he didn't have his facts straight. Ciccerelli said at the MC press conference the rape allegations were not dropped. jmoo [/*]

I dont think he got it confused. I think he went on what he had been told by Maria or Mary.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


I'm confused. I thought Gafton was the NCIS officer/investigator. [/*]

IIRC, Megan Grafton was the NCIS investigator assigned to Maria's case. That was in the MC presser and Ciccarelli was the one who said her name.

JMO

[donna]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I agree.

imo:seeya: [/*]

:seeya: ... me too

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by strick10


I'm confused. I thought Gafton was the NCIS officer/investigator. [/*]

Don't be confused, I'm the confused one, lol. Yes, Megan Grafton is the NCIS officer not the UVA. :o

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I agree.

imo:seeya: [/*]

If they had an ongoing sexual relationship, it is likely that one or both of them would have been usjing birth control. They were young but not that young. IMO

[baywench]

Originally posted by Jan Powell


I'm 65, was cheated on when young and stayed for several years. Some good times and some bad times afterwards.

Since it's not uncommon, I've had friends and known others that affairs happened in their marriage too, women and men.

I was young, crazy jealous, didn't want to be alone and my husband was my possession (in retrospect I know that is how I felt). My friends have said the same thing. Thank God I didn't, but I could have killed THE OTHER WOMAN, I wanted my possession.

I'm old now, and I know it's affairs of the heart not sexual affairs that are the most personally damaging. There are worse things in life that can happen to you than your SO having a sexual fling. It hurts terribly but you can survive it, some young people
don't know that yet and they act accordingly.

That is how I view CSL's situation, she hadn't lived long enough to have the maturity and know she could survive without her possession.

AIMO of course. [/*]

Yes the are worse things, you are so right. I also was cheated on but didn't stay. I still hate her to this day. I somehow expected more from her in a way. I was plenty upset with him too but I wanted to hurt her.

[strick10]

Originally posted by bkwits


If they had an ongoing sexual relationship, it is likely that one or both of them would have been usjing birth control. They were young but not that young. IMO [/*]

Unless CL used birth control which may be why he thought he could get away with the no sex statement. Probably too far fetched though. If that were the case he would've gone through w/ the trial as he would know the baby was most likely not his and Maria would still be alive. Both were probably not thinking about bc which is really idiotic on CLs part being that he was married. Too many if's in this department for me.

[strick10]

Originally posted by strick10


Unless CL used birth control which may be why he thought he could get away with the no sex statement. Probably too far fetched though. If that were the case he would've gone through w/ the trial as he would know the baby was most likely not his and Maria would still be alive. Both were probably not thinking about bc which is really idiotic on CLs part being that he was married. Too many if's in this department for me. [/*]

Never mind this post. It's too out there.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by strick10


Unless CL used birth control which may be why he thought he could get away with the no sex statement. Probably too far fetched though. If that were the case he would've gone through w/ the trial as he would know the baby was most likely not his and Maria would still be alive. Both were probably not thinking about bc which is really idiotic on CLs part being that he was married. Too many if's in this department for me. [/*]


Why not the simple obvious answer?

Maria told the truth. The man she accused murdered her and her baby, buried and burned them, and ran like the coward he is.

Why romaniticize with a love affair?

[strick10]

Originally posted by bkwits



Why not the simple obvious answer?

Maria told the truth. The man she accused murdered her and her baby, buried and burned them, and ran like the coward he is.

Why romaniticize with a love affair? [/*]

Not romanticizing anything.

[hinman]

Originally posted by bkwits


If they had an ongoing sexual relationship, it is likely that one or both of them would have been usjing birth control. They were young but not that young. IMO [/*]He already had one child so he new what would happen with out Birth Control.

[donna]

Originally posted by baywench


Whew I am so glad you addressed that issue. I was really afraid to question that one since I seem to be the the poster child for disparagement! LOL [/*]

Well, I am with you, bay, so you are not alone!

:beer: ... one poster child to another!

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


If they had an ongoing sexual relationship, it is likely that one or both of them would have been usjing birth control. They were young but not that young. IMO [/*]

Unfortunately being of a certain age is no assurances that protection will be used.

I really don't see this as having anything to do with supporting rape though.

imoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Unfortunately being of a certain age is no assurances that protection will be used.

I really don't see this as having anything to do with supporting rape though.

imoo [/*]

You're right GB.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Unfortunately being of a certain age is no assurances that protection will be used.

I really don't see this as having anything to do with supporting rape though.

imoo [/*]

Unplanned, unexpected.
I sure don't see it supporting an affair.

[baywench]

Originally posted by donna


Well, I am with you, bay, so you are not alone!

:beer: ... one poster child to another! [/*]

Hey Donna we can take this act on the road!

[donna]

Originally posted by baywench


Hey Donna we can take this act on the road! [/*]

:D

[baywench]

Originally posted by bkwits



Why not the simple obvious answer?

Maria told the truth. The man she accused murdered her and her baby, buried and burned them, and ran like the coward he is.

Why romaniticize with a love affair? [/*]

It all depends on which "truth" of Maria's you choose to believe IMO

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by baywench


Hey Donna we can take this act on the road! [/*]

Donna loves being on the road...;)

[donna]

We will never know what all really went on between Maria and CAL. I would not believe one word out of CAL's mouth, and Maria is not here to explain her side. Since she is not, we only have what information we are given by LE and media outlets.

We do know this, however - Maria was pregnant with Gabriel and CAL viciously murdered them, placed them in a fire pit and burned them. That is what we know.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by baywench


It all depends on which "truth" of Maria's you choose to believe IMO [/*]


What did she lie about with respect to the rape, in YOUR opinion?

[donna]

Originally posted by marinewife5


Donna loves being on the road...;) [/*]

Well, you do too, marinewife5! - :D
I am ready to go! Let's go to Mexico and find the POS!

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


I don't think it substantiates anything. I think Maria's statements that she was raped by Cesar, her brutal murder (I think by Cesar), and coldness in the burying and burning, and the cowardly fleeing, leaving his wife and child to face this, tell me all I need to know.

JMO [/*]

Well that may be what is important to you but the DA will layout the full story of how these two people came together starting with the relationship they had very early on. In fact I think there are many who were aware of it. IMO all the facts must be known so the jury can be aware of what transpired between these two people and wound up with her coming months later to his home that eventful day.

IMO the cell phone records, emails etc. will be paramount in this case and any banking activities of Maria, CAL or CSLs accounts.

There is no way in the world if Maria was actually raped she would have ever dared step one foot on his personal property knowing he was alone imo.

It is much more reasonable and logical that there was a relationship of some kind.

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by donna
We will never know what all really went on between Maria and CAL. I would not believe one word out of CAL's mouth, and Maria is not here to explain her side. Since she is not, we only have what information we are given by LE and media outlets.

We do know this, however - Maria was pregnant with Gabriel and CAL viciously murdered them, placed them in a fire pit and burned them. That is what we know. [/*]Isn't that the truth donna. We can believe a killer who isn't going to admit to nothing or we can believe Maria who more then likely had a hard time with the truth. It seems to me Cl lied also about the rape. He just completely denied anything so he didn't have to fabricate any stories which gives us nothing to compare Marias story to.


We just don't know and probably never will know what happened. I can say IMO something was going on with Maria and Ceasar or he would not of killed her. If she went there because she was going to run away from the fake charges I think he would of let her run. anyway I feel we just will never no what happened in the rape case.

[donna]

Originally posted by hinman
Isn't that the truth donna. We can believe a killer who isn't going to admit to nothing or we can believe Maria who more then likely had a hard time with the truth. It seems to me Cl lied also about the rape. He just completely denied anything so he didn't have to fabricate any stories which gives us nothing to compare Marias story to.


We just don't know and probably never will know what happened. I can say IMO something was going on with Maria and Ceasar or he would not of killed her. If she went there because she was going to run away from the fake charges I think he would of let her run. anyway I feel we just will never no what happened in the rape case. [/*]

So very true, hinman. An unfortunate truth, but truth.

... Got to run to the store - ugh!:(

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by donna


Well, you do too, marinewife5! - :D
I am ready to go! Let's go to Mexico and find the POS! [/*]

the fbi and rick have mexico covered...lets hit vegas

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by bkwits


Unplanned, unexpected.
I sure don't see it supporting an affair. [/*]
I'm sure by now with all the ongoing investigation it has been determined IF they were having, or had an affair. IMO, they were, or had.

[donna]

Originally posted by marinewife5


the fbi and rick have mexico covered...lets hit vegas [/*]

You got a deal!

:D

[hinman]

Originally posted by marinewife5


the fbi and rick have mexico covered...lets hit vegas [/*]I am going there next month. Me and hubster are renewing our vowels there.

[Kel65]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I'm sure by now with all the ongoing investigation it has been determined IF they were having, or had an affair. IMO, they were, or had. [/*]

My thoughts too.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by hinman
I am going there next month. Me and hubster are renewing our vowels there. [/*]

Vowels?

Are Pat and Vanna gonna be there or something? :D

You know I'm jes joking hinman! I knew what you were saying.

[hinman]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Vowels?

Are Pat and Vanna gonna be there or something? :D

You know I'm jes joking hinman! I knew what you were saying. [/*]I know For the life of me I could not remember how to spell it. I just drew a blank.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I'm sure by now with all the ongoing investigation it has been determined IF they were having, or had an affair. IMO, they were, or had. [/*]

ITA Ivy.

[hinman]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I'm sure by now with all the ongoing investigation it has been determined IF they were having, or had an affair. IMO, they were, or had. [/*]see, I could of swore that Maria herself admitted to a relationship with him in the beginning, I thought I had read that but I have no clue where.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by bkwits


Unplanned, unexpected.
I sure don't see it supporting an affair. [/*]

Maria thought Anne having a child was a wonderful thing on March 17, 2007.

Maybe she pictured herself in that role too and then found out Cesar was married. We just don't know. JMO tho.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GRACE: Out to Colonel Robin Johnson, retired Marine Corps colonel.

Colonel, I`m stunned. I mean the Marines have taken several black eyes just recently. Number one, you`ve got Cesar Lauren on the run in Mexico after allegedly killing his pregnant lover and her unborn child. Now this.

What alternative do they have in military justice for something like this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRI...3/05/ng.01.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I'm sure by now with all the ongoing investigation it has been determined IF they were having, or had an affair. IMO, they were, or had. [/*]

I do too.

imoo

[baywench]

Originally posted by bkwits



What did she lie about with respect to the rape, in YOUR opinion? [/*]

The rape...pure and simple. I do not believe that you wait a month to report a rape. Then the pregnancy test is negative...but over a month later the test is positive but the dates now don't add up. It's too complicated. I think the simple answer is she was not raped....was involved with a POS who killed her. Do you believe the MC was involved with a cover up and gave her the wrong dates? IMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by hinman
see, I could of swore that Maria herself admitted to a relationship with him in the beginning, I thought I had read that but I have no clue where. [/*]


I've never seen it, other than the dubious JennaR and "Lisa" who only said that there was attraction there. No mention was made of sexual relationship, that I know o. IMO.

[hinman]

Originally posted by bkwits



I've never seen it, other than the dubious JennaR and "Lisa" who only said that there was attraction there. No mention was made of sexual relationship, that I know o. IMO. [/*]bk, I am not even sure if that is what I saw to be honoest. I thought it was from the Mc PC. It could of been from the friend. I also could be imagining it or remembering it wrong.

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by baywench


Yes the are worse things, you are so right. I also was cheated on but didn't stay. I still hate her to this day. I somehow expected more from her in a way. I was plenty upset with him too but I wanted to hurt her. [/*]

My ingrained experience also extends to what I believe CSL is capable of. It's the white hot instant rage you may feel and can't control.

I hope she has told the whole truth about the 4:00AM and knew only the day before CL left about what happened and not a day sooner. I hope this for her child and her family, but I don't believe it's possible.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by baywench


The rape...pure and simple. I do not believe that you wait a month to report a rape. Then the pregnancy test is negative...but over a month later the test is positive but the dates now don't add up. It's too complicated. I think the simple answer is she was not raped....was involved with a POS who killed her. Do you believe the MC was involved with a cover up and gave her the wrong dates? IMO [/*]

I don't believe the MC gave her the wrong dates on purpose. It was simply an error in reading the strip.

I know many women who were raped. Only one (who was mugged and raped by a stranger in the dark) reported it. Two of these women had babies as a result of their rape. They told almost no one who the fathers were. One kept the child, the other (who already had a family) let the child be adopted. She told me that she always knew where the child was, and the daughter looked her up when she was 19 or 20.

Rape is still a shameful thing even in our enlightened society. I would like to see the day wehn the victim is blamed, but maybe it won't happen in my lifetime.

MO

[baywench]

Originally posted by bkwits



I've never seen it, other than the dubious JennaR and "Lisa" who only said that there was attraction there. No mention was made of sexual relationship, that I know o. IMO. [/*]

You don't believe them either? Who do you believe? What are you basing your opinions on? jmo

[baywench]

Originally posted by bkwits


I don't believe the MC gave her the wrong dates on purpose. It was simply an error in reading the strip.

I know many women who were raped. Only one (who was mugged and raped by a stranger in the dark) reported it. Two of these women had babies as a result of their rape. They told almost no one who the fathers were. One kept the child, the other (who already had a family) let the child be adopted. She told me that she always knew where the child was, and the daughter looked her up when she was 19 or 20.

Rape is still a shameful thing even in our enlightened society. I would like to see the day wehn the victim is blamed, but maybe it won't happen in my lifetime.

MO [/*]

I do agree there is much more that can be done in this area. JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by baywench


You don't believe them either? Who do you believe? What are you basing your opinions on? jmo [/*]


I don't beleve ******. As far as I know, Lisa seems truthful.


Whodo I believe???? I believe Maria

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by bkwits


I don't believe the MC gave her the wrong dates on purpose. It was simply an error in reading the strip.

I know many women who were raped. Only one (who was mugged and raped by a stranger in the dark) reported it. Two of these women had babies as a result of their rape. They told almost no one who the fathers were. One kept the child, the other (who already had a family) let the child be adopted. She told me that she always knew where the child was, and the daughter looked her up when she was 19 or 20.

Rape is still a shameful thing even in our enlightened society. I would like to see the day wehn the victim is blamed, but maybe it won't happen in my lifetime.

MO [/*](and I know you meant the victim isn't blamed)

And it seems that in every case of rape, the victim is the on trial instead of the perp.

I, too, am hoping for the day to come when a rape trial is based on the evidence and not the victim.

JMHO

[hinman]

Originally posted by baywench


You don't believe them either? Who do you believe? What are you basing your opinions on? jmo [/*]I think the unnamed person would have been more believable if she did not say that Maria wasn't really moved as far as the military is claiming. My opinion she is about as believable as Maria or Ceasar.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by hinman
see, I could of swore that Maria herself admitted to a relationship with him in the beginning, I thought I had read that but I have no clue where. [/*]

Hinman, congrats on the renewal of your vows. :beer:

With all due respect, and I do mean that hinman....

Tomorrow perhaps you can ask Regina where she got the information about Maria admitting it since Regina stated that today too.

Just a suggestion since I don't remember that.

I do remember a tale being woven with gold thread that talked about how Maria herself declared the first encounter consensual. I remember that much different from what the USMC said in their PC tho.

I don't remember them saying Maria told us not to worry about the first allegation because that was consensual. Not at all.

What I remember was that the USMC said the first encounter SHE REPORTED was found to be consensual. IF I was a betting woman, I'd say that the USMC had some information from other sources and they presented it to Maria thereby helping her to realize it was consensual. JMO tho.

I understand when a young woman feels she has been fooled and needs to exact revenge or protect herself, but not by making an unsubstantiated accusation of rape. JMO again.

[baywench]

Originally posted by bkwits



I don't beleve ******. As far as I know, Lisa seems truthful. [/*]

I really wasn't being sarcastic Bk....I am trying to understand how you can be so sure. IMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
(and I know you meant the victim isn't blamed)

And it seems that in every case of rape, the victim is the on trial instead of the perp.

I, too, am hoping for the day to come when a rape trial is based on the evidence and not the victim.

JMHO [/*]

Thank you for correcting my post. I certainly did mean to say that I hope the victim IS NOT blamed.

:rose:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits



I don't believe ******. As far as I know, Lisa seems truthful.


Whodo I believe???? I believe Maria [/*]

Lisa said that Maria and Cesar's relationship began in December 06.

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Hinman, congrats on the renewal of your vows. :beer:

With all due respect, and I do mean that hinman....

Tomorrow perhaps you can ask Regina where she got the information about Maria admitting it since Regina stated that today too.

Just a suggestion since I don't remember that.

I do remember a tale being woven with gold thread that talked about how Maria herself declared the first encounter consensual. I remember that much different from what the USMC said in their PC tho.

I don't remember them saying Maria told us not to worry about the first allegation because that was consensual. Not at all.

What I remember was that the USMC said the first encounter SHE REPORTED was found to be consensual. IF I was a betting woman, I'd say that the USMC had some information from other sources and they presented it to Maria thereby helping her to realize it was consensual. JMO tho.

I understand when a young woman feels she has been fooled and needs to exact revenge or protect herself, but not by making an unsubstantiated accusation of rape. JMO again. [/*]Candy, You know I probably just took it the wrong way because the more I think about it I thought I heard it from the MC PC I thought they said Maria said she had a consensual relationship.

I just can't remember though so If I see regina posting I will ask her if she remembers. I also could of just seen it on the board and took it for the truth.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by hinman
see, I could of swore that Maria herself admitted to a relationship with him in the beginning, I thought I had read that but I have no clue where. [/*]
Probably from her saying the March incident was consensual hinman/see below.

Mary got the call from Maria on May 10th saying "Mom, I was attacked." Then mom asks when it happened and Maria says "April 10."

Then Maria does what mom wants her to do and reports the alleged rape the next day on the 11th where she says she was raped by Laurean on MARCH 26th and while on duty about two weeks later.

She later tells investigators that the March incident was consensual and the second encounter didn't involve force or coercion.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Well that may be what is important to you but the DA will layout the full story of how these two people came together starting with the relationship they had very early on. In fact I think there are many who were aware of it. IMO all the facts must be known so the jury can be aware of what transpired between these two people and wound up with her coming months later to his home that eventful day.

IMO the cell phone records, emails etc. will be paramount in this case and any banking activities of Maria, CAL or CSLs accounts.

There is no way in the world if Maria was actually raped she would have ever dared step one foot on his personal property knowing he was alone imo.

It is much more reasonable and logical that there was a relationship of some kind.

imoo [/*]
Good evening GB :seeya: I was just reading through here to see what's new. I agree that LE and the DA will have to piece together everything through the records they have, like cell phone, email and so forth as to what contact there was between CL and Maria and try to explain to a jury (someday) what their theory is of what happened on 12/14 for Maria to go withdraw the money, leave a note for Durham, buy a bus ticket to El Paso and go to CL's house. I have never known of a rape victim going to the perpetrator's house for any reason especially if he'd be alone there. I too think they were seeing each other most likely with Maria not knowing he was married until after she got pregnant. Saying it was rape maybe was a way to explain her condition to her family, imo.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by baywench


I really wasn't being sarcastic Bk....I am trying to understand how you can be so sure. IMO [/*]


People tend not to believe a rape victim unless she beat up by a stranger. Here we have a dead young woman who had said this man raped her and stood by that for many months despite almost no one believing her. He has proven to be of low, low character and IMO a brutal man, so until I see something that changes my mind.

I stand up for Maria.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Naval investigators concluded the sexual encounter in March was not criminal, said Paul Ciccarelli, an agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. The pair had a second sexual encounter about two weeks later that didn't include any threats, force, violence or coercion, Ciccarelli said.

"She asked him to stop, and he did stop," Ciccarelli said, saying that was the account Lauterbach gave to officials.

He said that she still considered both to be incidents of rape, and that Lauterbach's regimental commander treated her allegations seriously. Her commander was intent on taking the case to an Article 32 hearing, the military equivalent of a grand jury proceeding.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,160145,00.html


Ciccarelli said Lauterbach told investigators that she and Laurean had a consensual sexual encounter last March and that they had another encounter in April while on duty. The case was investigated as a rape because that was her initial claim, he said, noting she later told investigators there was no force or coercion used in the April encounter.

http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/2304288/

[baywench]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny
Naval investigators concluded the sexual encounter in March was not criminal, said Paul Ciccarelli, an agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. The pair had a second sexual encounter about two weeks later that didn't include any threats, force, violence or coercion, Ciccarelli said.

"She asked him to stop, and he did stop," Ciccarelli said, saying that was the account Lauterbach gave to officials.

He said that she still considered both to be incidents of rape, and that Lauterbach's regimental commander treated her allegations seriously. Her commander was intent on taking the case to an Article 32 hearing, the military equivalent of a grand jury proceeding.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,160145,00.html


Ciccarelli said Lauterbach told investigators that she and Laurean had a consensual sexual encounter last March and that they had another encounter in April while on duty. The case was investigated as a rape because that was her initial claim, he said, noting she later told investigators there was no force or coercion used in the April encounter.

http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/2304288/ [/*]

It's no wonder everyone is confused:rolleyes:

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by hinman
Candy, You know I probably just took it the wrong way because the more I think about it I thought I heard it from the MC PC I thought they said Maria said she had a consensual relationship.

I just can't remember though so If I see regina posting I will ask her if she remembers. I also could of just seen it on the board and took it for the truth. [/*]

The friend said Lauterbach confided in her that she had consensual sex with Laurean, but that a verbal argument had occurred, and the alleged rape followed in Laurean's office at Camp Lejeune.

The March encounter was judged to be "not criminal in nature," or consensual, said Col. Gary Sokoloski, staff judge advocate for the II Marine Expeditionary Force. The second encounter, in April, involved no threats or force, Lauterbach said.

The woman said Lauterbach told her she feared Laurean, and sought a protective order, which expired in September.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/16/marine.friend/

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny
Naval investigators concluded the sexual encounter in March was not criminal, said Paul Ciccarelli, an agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. The pair had a second sexual encounter about two weeks later that didn't include any threats, force, violence or coercion, Ciccarelli said.

"She asked him to stop, and he did stop," Ciccarelli said, saying that was the account Lauterbach gave to officials.

He said that she still considered both to be incidents of rape, and that Lauterbach's regimental commander treated her allegations seriously. Her commander was intent on taking the case to an Article 32 hearing, the military equivalent of a grand jury proceeding.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,160145,00.html


Ciccarelli said Lauterbach told investigators that she and Laurean had a consensual sexual encounter last March and that they had another encounter in April while on duty. The case was investigated as a rape because that was her initial claim, he said, noting she later told investigators there was no force or coercion used in the April encounter.

http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/2304288/ [/*]


None this makes sense to me. If no threats, coerciian or force was used, how is it rape? It is not rape, and the military wouldn't be investigating, if it was that simple.

I've always thouht whoever took those notes or transcribed them, got the two instances mixed-up. I think the first time in March, she asked him to stop and he did. I believe this was also a part of Rep. Turner's questions. IMO

[hinman]

Thank you Lynn, I bet that is where I got it from. In the PC they say it was a consensual relationship but it is worded so confusing so who the heck knows what it means.

[baywench]

Originally posted by bkwits



None this makes sense to me. If no threats, coerciian or force was used, how is it rape? It is not rape, and the military wouldn't be investigating, if it was that simple.

I've always thouht whoever took those notes or transcribed them, got the two instances mixed-up. I think the first time in March, she asked him to stop and he did. I believe this was also a part of Rep. Turner's questions. IMO [/*]

With all due respect BK I find it hard to believe all these different people and agencies made mistakes. IMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Probably from her saying the March incident was consensual hinman/see below.

Mary got the call from Maria on May 10th saying "Mom, I was attacked." Then mom asks when it happened and Maria says "April 10."

Then Maria does what mom wants her to do and reports the alleged rape the next day on the 11th where she says she was raped by Laurean on MARCH 26th and while on duty about two weeks later.

She later tells investigators that the March incident was consensual and the second encounter didn't involve force or coercion. [/*]

I think Donna laid it out well tonight Ivy. It appeared as tho Maria was seeking the approval of Mary and once Mary went from not ruining the man's career to being a savior to her sister marines, well that was all she wrote IMO.

How was she supposed to start confessing she was in a relationship with this guy and had consensual sex the first time and then a rape. OR EVEN BETTER, if she was still claiming TWO RAPES, can you imagine the questions from Mary?

No, none of it makes sense, just like the story about the father killing the brother by accident with a lamp.

IF indeed she was bipolar, it would all make sense IMHO. :shrug:

I think the Congressman is going to be QUIETLY surprised if he gets any answers. Unfortunately, I don't see him having a PC to unload the answers he gets from the USMC. JMO tho.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by sunstar

Good evening GB :seeya: I was just reading through here to see what's new. I agree that LE and the DA will have to piece together everything through the records they have, like cell phone, email and so forth as to what contact there was between CL and Maria and try to explain to a jury (someday) what their theory is of what happened on 12/14 for Maria to go withdraw the money, leave a note for Durham, buy a bus ticket to El Paso and go to CL's house. I have never known of a rape victim going to the perpetrator's house for any reason especially if he'd be alone there. I too think they were seeing each other most likely with Maria not knowing he was married until after she got pregnant. Saying it was rape maybe was a way to explain her condition to her family, imo. [/*]

Hi pretty Star, how are you doing?

I do agree with you and all the truth will come forth. I actually think by now that LE has really uncovered a lot. People know things and they speak to LE about what they know when something like this happens.

imoo:seeya:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Hi pretty Star, how are you doing?

I do agree with you and all the truth will come forth. I actually think by now that LE has really uncovered a lot. People know things and they speak to LE about what they know when something like this happens.

imoo:seeya: [/*]

Yes indeed folks have a way of coming out of the woodwork. But for the life of me, I can't understand why no one has come out with anything on either CAL or CSL, you know like someone who disliked them in high school or something!

JMO :seeya:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by baywench


With all due respect BK I find it hard to believe all these different people and agencies made mistakes. IMO [/*]

When the world has to be wrong, for you to be right, MAYBE you are just not right in your thought process IMO.

:shrug:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Yes indeed folks have a way of coming out of the woodwork. But for the life of me, I can't understand why no one has come out with anything on either CAL or CSL, you know like someone who disliked them in high school or something!

JMO :seeya: [/*]

I know........it is uncanny isn't it?

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Me, too. [/*]

I can only find one way for it all to fit and be perfectly understandable. Tonight I graduate from Annie's school.

IF Maria was indeed bipolar, this would all make sense and even the doctors would understand all the inconsistencies.

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"We suspect that she probably is BIPOLAR and she's had a lot of struggles through the years. She's been a real loner, hasn't had a lot of friends, but one thing is she's very attached to home and would call several times a day." spoken word of Mary Lauterbach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHrHZgjx4Aw

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JMO tho.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S


You know, I have run that by my head many times and I cannot come up with one, either. [/*]

I have too Jas.

And thank you for your response earlier.

BTW did you see that Maria's mother did in fact file the paperwork in Ohio?

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by baywench


With all due respect BK I find it hard to believe all these different people and agencies made mistakes. IMO [/*]

I find it hard to believe that a Marine reported being raped by another Marine, was not protected by the MC from said Marine, and was found burned and buried (along with her unborn baby) in said Marine's back yard after said Marine has gone on the lam.

Yet it happened.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


That is indeed the question that most people have with it. If there is no threat, force or coersion, how is it rape(s)?

However, the military is required to investigate to determine it was not rape.

That they investigated the allegations does not mean it was a rape. [/*]How long did the investigation go on wasn't it like 7 months and still ongoing. See I would think they could determine no rape happened sooner. But heck maybe it does take awhile.