~Countdown~ Til 3 Yr Anniversary of RG's Disappearance

[Politigal]

http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=m&year=2008&month=4&day=15&p0=198

*Three Years* and.....still unsolved

What a shame

[Zaney1]

It really is.

[gstickley]

Today is one month prior to the disappearance of Ray Gricar. Are there any plans for a vigil, memorial, celebration of his life, anything, planned for one month from today, April 14, which is 3 years since he disappeared?

It was my understanding last fall that something was planned for this spring. It is spring.

Three years, folks, three years since Ray Gricar disappeared. Did his life not mean anything to the citizens of Centre County? Where are his friends? Where are his co-workers? Where is the outrage? A man whose job was to help the citizens of Centre County has been missing for 3 years; does no one care???

[gstickley]

This is what we got a year ago---2 years after Mr. Gricar's disappearance. What have we learned in this past year that is any different than it was a year ago?


http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2007/...-07dnews-06.asp

After two years, Gricar's disappearance 'still difficult' for family

By Halle Stockton
Collegian Staff Writer

Time can heal all wounds -- an old phrase frequently offered to people dealing with hardship. But Patty Fornicola said the expression is not quite true.

Time has grown "more tolerable" since the mysterious disappearance two years ago of her longtime boyfriend and former Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar, but it hasn't healed her wounds, she said.

"It's still difficult ..." she said, struggling through each word. "I pray ... I pray for strength. I think of all the good times we had."

Fornicola last heard from Gricar two years ago yesterday -- April 15, 2005 -- when he called her to say he wouldn't be home to feed their dog. He was taking the afternoon off from work and driving on Route 192. She didn't think twice about it until he didn't come home that evening.

His red and white Mini Cooper was found empty in the parking lot of a Lewisburg antiques mall the following day.

Gricar's laptop, missing its hard drive, was found in the Susquehanna River in July. The hard drive was found in October about 100 yards from where the laptop had been found. It was damaged beyond repair, and no data could be salvaged.

Bellefonte Police Chief Shawn Weaver said police are re-examining the case thus far and continue to follow leads, however slim.

"The brunt of the work has been done," Weaver said. "Now, it's just going back over and looking at it with fresh eyes."

In January, the Bellefonte police department announced the approaching retirement of lead investigator Darrel Zaccagni and named Detective Matt Rickard to head the case. Rickard has been involved in the investigation since the beginning, Weaver said, adding that he and Zaccagni are presently working "hand in hand."

Police have repeated three possible scenarios for Gricar's disappearance: homicide, suicide and a walk-away.

Weaver said his disappearance is still in the "forefront" of their minds; however, the case has gone cold because of the lack of physical evidence.

Fornicola said she still wavers among the scenarios.

"One day I might be thinking along one line and be thinking that way for a day or so, and then I think of something that will change my mind ..." she said. "Still, there's no evidence to lead anyone down one path."

The community's memory of Gricar is now a main concern, Fornicola said.

"So many people stop me and wish me well and say they're praying for an answer, for some sort of conclusion ... " she said, "and people are well-intentioned, but I just want them to remember Ray and keep him in their thoughts."

Centre County District Attorney Michael Madeira said Gricar still remains present in the minds of many, and hope that he may return is still strong.

"No one will give up on him until and unless we know for sure that there's no reason to have hope," he said.

[gstickley]

Originally posted by gstickley
This is what we got a year ago---2 years after Mr. Gricar's disappearance. What have we learned in this past year that is any different than it was a year ago?


Bellefonte Police Chief Shawn Weaver said police are re-examining the case thus far and continue to follow leads, however slim.

"The brunt of the work has been done," Weaver said. "Now, it's just going back over and looking at it with fresh eyes."

In January, the Bellefonte police department announced the approaching retirement of lead investigator Darrel Zaccagni and named Detective Matt Rickard to head the case. Rickard has been involved in the investigation since the beginning, Weaver said, adding that he and Zaccagni are presently working "hand in hand."

Police have repeated three possible scenarios for Gricar's disappearance: homicide, suicide and a walk-away.

Weaver said his disappearance is still in the "forefront" of their minds; however, the case has gone cold because of the lack of physical evidence.

[/*]

Actually, we did learn one important thing in the past year. The 1st lead detective apparently made what have been referred to as 'mistakements' about the fingerprints on the Mini. One wonders why the 'mistakements' weren't discovered, or were discovered & not mentioned, in the previous 2 years. Did not the 1st lead detective have a supervisor? Why did the information not come out until after the 1st lead detective left?

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by gstickley


Actually, we did learn one important thing in the past year. The 1st lead detective apparently made what have been referred to as 'mistakements' about the fingerprints on the Mini. One wonders why the 'mistakements' weren't discovered, or were discovered & not mentioned, in the previous 2 years. Did not the 1st lead detective have a supervisor? Why did the information not come out until after the 1st lead detective left? [/*]

I would have thought it would have been found during the PSP review when they "supposedly" went over the case to see what had been done, and looking at his files to see if there could have been someone who made threats, etc against RG.

I would liked to have been a fly in that meeting of minds, especially if DA Madeira was in on it. What really happened in that meeting and why has it never been discussed? Who all were invovled in that meeting?

[gstickley]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


I would have thought it would have been found during the PSP review when they "supposedly" went over the case to see what had been done, and looking at his files to see if there could have been someone who made threats, etc against RG.

I would liked to have been a fly in that meeting of minds, especially if DA Madeira was in on it. What really happened in that meeting and why has it never been discussed? Who all were invovled in that meeting? [/*]

I agree with all of the above, SJ. All we've heard about is 'so little evidence'. And they can't even keep that straight. We've had the BPD in charge, the PSP reviewing everything. I can't understand why the question of the fingerprints was screwed up at all. Someone along the way should have noted that. But, we must not forget: "No stone has been left unturned".

[Politigal]

Originally posted by gstickley


I agree with all of the above, SJ. All we've heard about is 'so little evidence'. And they can't even keep that straight. We've had the BPD in charge, the PSP reviewing everything. I can't understand why the question of the fingerprints was screwed up at all. Someone along the way should have noted that. But, we must not forget: "No stone has been left unturned". [/*]

The fingerprint issue really gives you pause ....doesn't it....

I hope Rickard will ask Zaccagni *why* he chose to mislead everyone.

And, I definitely feel that a conflict of interest seems to have been the case.

[sherrijean981]

I would like DZ to be questioned on a lot of things.

How he himself felt about RG?

Why he assumed RG would have something to tell PF when he didn't come home?

Why he didn't question JB when he said he thought RG would be west of there, as if he knew something about RG and someone he met with?

Why he never questioned the best friends, Steve Sloane and Ed Walker?

Why he didn't feel the need to question other ADA's in RG's office, get where abouts of all and alibi's and then question other court house employee's?

Why he felt his time with Carla Baron was more important than questioning of co-workers, friends, family and loved ones?

Did he check with the DA and LE in the Lewisburg area to see if they had their investigation set up on 4/15-4/16 in the park for the drug bust?

Did they check with INS to see if anyone had been picked up in the area either of those days? What was that van doing in the area?

Were there any escapes from the prison's in Lewisburg or surrounding counties at that time?

Did he ever go back to those warehouses that dogs scented to and acted like something was suspicious there?

Did he ever check with Pa Dept of Transportation to see if another car had been put in RG's name at that time?

Just a few that really bug me but I have a lot more.

[sherrijean981]

A big question I have:

Have LE ever checked the quarries in Bellefonte/Pleasant Gap with sonar equipment or professional equipment, to see if RG was deposited there?

If, as some think, he never left Bellefonte alive, could he have been put in one of the lakes or quarries in the area?

[day2day]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
I would like DZ to be questioned on a lot of things.

How he himself felt about RG?

Why he assumed RG would have something to tell PF when he didn't come home?

Why he didn't question JB when he said he thought RG would be west of there, as if he knew something about RG and someone he met with?

Why he never questioned the best friends, Steve Sloane and Ed Walker?

Why he didn't feel the need to question other ADA's in RG's office, get where abouts of all and alibi's and then question other court house employee's?

Why he felt his time with Carla Baron was more important than questioning of co-workers, friends, family and loved ones?

Did he check with the DA and LE in the Lewisburg area to see if they had their investigation set up on 4/15-4/16 in the park for the drug bust?

Did they check with INS to see if anyone had been picked up in the area either of those days? What was that van doing in the area?

Were there any escapes from the prison's in Lewisburg or surrounding counties at that time?

Did he ever go back to those warehouses that dogs scented to and acted like something was suspicious there?

Did he ever check with Pa Dept of Transportation to see if another car had been put in RG's name at that time?

Just a few that really bug me but I have a lot more. [/*]

Sj...
You have the beginnings of a very good list. All of these questions (and more) IMO should be answered. Especially why weren't the neighbors, friends and co-workers questioned. Maybe we should compile a list and forward it to LE!!

[gstickley]

Originally posted by day2day


Sj...
You have the beginnings of a very good list. All of these questions (and more) IMO should be answered. Especially why weren't the neighbors, friends and co-workers questioned. Maybe we should compile a list and forward it to LE!! [/*]

Ladies, according to some here, and according to 'the chief' himself, LE is monitoring the board & should already have the questions, as should the CDT, which apparently monitors the board also.

Web site on Gricar case seeks to engage public
By Pete Bosak - centredaily.com
(snip)
Bellefonte Police Chief Shawn Weaver, even though his officer's techniques are called into question, welcomed the public discourse. Weaver referred to Web sites and message boards dedicated to the Gricar disappearance.

"We do read them," the chief said. "We are aware of a multitude of sites and we monitor them. We welcome that kind of thing. The more people who know about it, the better. I know the odds are stacked against us the longer it goes. It's just a reality. But we're still holding out for that stroke of luck."

http://www.centredaily.com/116/story/148022.html

[day2day]

Originally posted by gstickley


Ladies, according to some here, and according to 'the chief' himself, LE is monitoring the board & should already have the questions, as should the CDT, which apparently monitors the board also.

Web site on Gricar case seeks to engage public
By Pete Bosak - centredaily.com
(snip)
Bellefonte Police Chief Shawn Weaver, even though his officer's techniques are called into question, welcomed the public discourse. Weaver referred to Web sites and message boards dedicated to the Gricar disappearance.

"We do read them," the chief said. "We are aware of a multitude of sites and we monitor them. We welcome that kind of thing. The more people who know about it, the better. I know the odds are stacked against us the longer it goes. It's just a reality. But we're still holding out for that stroke of luck."

http://www.centredaily.com/116/story/148022.html [/*]

I'm pretty happy that they do read this forum. At least they know how people feel about the way this investigation has been handled. And if they welcome the "discourse" ...it makes less sense for people to remove links and stuff...jmo!! :shrug:

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by day2day


I'm pretty happy that they do read this forum. At least they know how people feel about the way this investigation has been handled. And if they welcome the "discourse" ...it makes less sense for people to remove links and stuff...jmo!! :shrug: [/*]

I agree and also maybe one of our questions might not have been answered or thought of, in the way we word it or put it.
JJ says we have to ask the right question so we can't stop asking if they are reading the forum.

[gstickley]

Originally posted by Politigal
http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=m&year=2008&month=4&day=15&p0=198

*Three Years* and.....still unsolved

What a shame [/*]

So we don't forget Ray Gricar.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by gstickley
So we don't forget Ray Gricar. As if 'we' could.
The "Betsy Aardsma Connection" thread is not a discussion of a connection to RG's disappearance, and should be 'moved'. Then again...3 dozen years from now, if RG's disappearance remains unsolved, I might well have a different opinion (should I live so long). But for now, it's MO.

[puzzled]

So on April 15th why don't we hold a protest on the courthouse lawn, steps, sidewalk? We will be protesting the lack of a true investigation! The lack of results in finding out what happened to Ray! The lack of honesty on the part of the BPD! We could make big signs that say we want justice for Ray! I think we should raise a huge stink and show the government that we are not going to give up and that we want honest answers! I am sure that many people would join in! Let's raise the roof and alert the media that this "investigation" should be moved up way higher! No more complacency, no more crap about every stone being turned over....which I hate to hear because I feel certain they have not been out flipping over stones. Ray is not under a rock ....get off your keisters and find Ray you freakin losers! How about it guys?? hammer :lol:

[Laws]

Originally posted by puzzled
So on April 15th why don't we hold a protest on the courthouse lawn, steps, sidewalk? We will be protesting the lack of a true investigation! The lack of results in finding out what happened to Ray! The lack of honesty on the part of the BPD! We could make big signs that say we want justice for Ray! I think we should raise a huge stink and show the government that we are not going to give up and that we want honest answers! I am sure that many people would join in! Let's raise the roof and alert the media that this "investigation" should be moved up way higher! No more complacency, no more crap about every stone being turned over....which I hate to hear because I feel certain they have not been out flipping over stones. Ray is not under a rock ....get off your keisters and find Ray you freakin losers! How about it guys?? hammer :lol: [/*]

That's a GREAT idea puzzled. Might it be a good idea for a couple of the signs to say NO SECOND TERM FOR NO ACTION DA MM - WASTE OF TAXPAYER $$'S.

Would be GREAT to see that Centre County's residents aren't apathetic to this tragedy through physical ACTION afterall ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, TALK IS CHEAP.

Signs could be constructed of affordable poster board, the protestor's could wear one on the front, one on the back attached with strong string. They wouldn't have to carry them but wear them & the signs could protect them from the cold. Black magic markers, outline the words & youngster's could help color in the letters. Would have to start this ASAP in order to pull it off by the anniversary but if not enough time the date should not be a hindrance as a permit to protest may also have to be obtained.

A PROTEST OF ANY KIND ON ANY DATE WOULD BE EFFECTIVE.

[puzzled]

Thanks LAWS for the moral support and all the great ideas! I think we should get started asap! Hopefully we have many who would be willing to participate. As they say the more the merrier! I loved your ideas aout one term Mike! His lack of interest in getting this case solved not only makes me suspicious of him it actually makes me loathe the sight of his face!:D

[Laws]

I think it is a great idea but it does NEED to be generated & populated by at the minimum Pennsylvania residents & citizens of Centre County in particular. Think it could be harmful if a lot of non-citizens, who are not directly related to Ray Gricar, are the protestor's. Myself living in MA & our active members here at InSession are from other states than Pennsylvania. Let's face it people in general become very territorial & certainly do often react in a negative manner to outsider's trying to influence their communities, this would not be good.

So, are any locals open to puzzled's suggestion regarding going public with their dismay to how the case of Ray Gricar has been handled & the poor performance of MM?????????????????????? Inquiring minds are curious. Anybody wanting to run with it & organize such a public protest from within Centre County????????????

[Cinderella]

I would love to, but I need help. I need the family no matter what they think of me to back us up. We got to get moving though. April 15th. this year, I think may be on a Tuesday. I am sure that we would want to have something at least the week end before.

We also have a former Commissioner running for Congress. What a way to get his attention. Scott Conklin should be behind us also. Also Tor Michaels. I know someone on the League of Women Voters who may be able to help and get others to help. Also the women's groups that Ray donated to and helped out.

You can e-mail me from this site. Please lets do it instead of talking about it every year and not doing anything about it. Please we need ideas.

It would be nice if the locals took certain sections of Centre County to get Volunteers to help us out. I would love to see signatures from the citizens demanding something more be done.

I need to know who is all willing. Please pm me, e-mail me here or e-mail me at livingmylifeforhim@yahoo.com

Maybe I can't get Pete to Post something on his Question and Answer about a get together. I think that it can be demonstrated nicely with Poster or Signs.

[Cloudbuster]

Here is a good store to get signatures ect.
http://www.americanprofile.com/spotlights/article/433.html

[Cinderella]

Sorry to say that I am not going to be able to do anything for the anniversary of Ray's disappearance. My health is not really good at this time. I am so sorry. I hope that someone else can do something. Maybe the Gricar family will do somethng or PF.

[puzzled]

MLK Jr once said " we will have to repent in this generation for the words and actions of the bad people, and for the apalling silence of the good people."

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by puzzled
MLK Jr once said " we will have to repent in this generation for the words and actions of the bad people, and for the apalling silence of the good people." [/*]

I pray if someone did do something to him and someone was with him/her, their conscience is bothering them so bad that one day they have to confess to the sin or go to hell for it. :flamemad:

[slaphappy]

Originally posted by puzzled
MLK Jr once said " we will have to repent in this generation for the words and actions of the bad people, and for the apalling silence of the good people." [/*]

Profound statement you quoted, puzzled.:beer:

Haven't posted in awhile. It's just that it gets so distressing not hearing anything new come out of this case. About 2 weeks away from the anniversay of Ray Gricar's 'vanishing'.....hopefully there won't be another year of waiting.

Lately, my anger leans more towards the community that Ray Gricar worked for. Where are their voices? Where is their anger? Isn't the disappearance of a decent man from your county, whether a laborer, a judge, a DA, a father, a PennDot worker, worthy of your voices? Why aren't they outraged?

Enough venting from me.
Again, I'm so glad that the posters here, at least, are keeping Ray Gricar's name out there.

[puzzled]

Thanks so much for the kind words. Sometimes I just flip out and vent like crazy. My husband actually fell asleep the other day as I was telling him more about what is going on on the boards. YIKES! I am sure he gets tired if hearing it. I wish I lived close by and could be out in front of the courthouse and pounding on doors everyday. On the face of it it seems like Tony is on his own trying to solve this. I feel a great deal of gratitude to him and yet I feel badly for him because he must get far more frustrated than we do! After all Ray is his loved one. I feel so useless regarding this case....and I wish like anything that we had the answers. Even if someone gave us clues as to where to locate Rays body. Atleast then the family could bring him home and have a proper burial. Even if they never do figure out who did it. Rays family deserves to have him in a decent grave. My Mother has dreamt several times that Ray is in a well or cistern type place. I think it is wrong for anyone to discourage the guy who is putting up a reward in the Besty Ardsma case. The one thing that really gets me is that Ray said I won't be here to the judge. That is very odd....haunting....curious....strange...don't you think? It really makes you wonder......:seeya:

[gstickley]

Originally posted by Politigal
http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=m&year=2008&month=4&day=15&p0=198

*Three Years* and.....still unsolved

What a shame [/*]

[puzzled]

There is a new show that starts today called Missing Persons Unit. Tonight at 10. There theory is that NOBODY goes missing without a trace. That there is always some evidence. I have sent them an email about Ray's case. I would appreciate it if everyone else would do the same. As long as this case stays in BPD's hands and continues to get zero press it will continue to go unsolved!:D

[Politigal]

this case just seems sooo "over."


Pretty soon - it will just be JJ posting to himself.

:shrug:

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Politigal
this case just seems sooo "over." Pretty soon - it will just be JJ posting to himself. "Reality checks" can be most annoying. I think I will go watch a "Law and Order" rerun...as I wonder what MR has been up to lately (he may be a slow reader).

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal
this case just seems sooo "over."


Pretty soon - it will just be JJ posting to himself.

:shrug: [/*]

I don't know if it is "over," but I hope not. I do however hold out some hope that someone will say something that will trigger something in someone's mind.

Nobody here has the answer, but somebody here might end up asking the right question (even by accident).

IIRC, sometime before I joined, there was talk of shutting the board down.

I have to admit it, I get very discouraged when "Al" posts a legitimate point on the State College Board, and all that he gets is a "joke" about Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis. :(

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
I don't know if it is "over," but I hope not. I do however hold out some hope that someone will say something that will trigger something in someone's mind.

Nobody here has the answer, but somebody here might end up asking the right question (even by accident).

IIRC, sometime before I joined, there was talk of shutting the board down.

I have to admit it, I get very discouraged when "Al" posts a legitimate point on the State College Board, and all that he gets is a "joke" about Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis. :( No one cares about anyone jacking off...unless caught with their hand in their pants... http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2008/04/07/lion_denies_charges.aspx

A dead baby: http://www.informedchoice.info/lucas2.jpg
AVM killed his baby, or at least said he would not fight the (reduced) charge...RG's charge, with the potential for the death penalty to be attached...before he disappeared.

The world is full of assholes like AVM. MOO

[J. J. in Phila]

First, it doesn't both me that someone makes a joke. It does when that is the only response, to a legitimate question.:mad:

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
A dead baby: http://www.informedchoice.info/lucas2.jpg
AVM killed his baby, or at least said he would not fight the (reduced) charge...RG's charge, with the potential for the death penalty to be attached...before he disappeared.



Second, it was still a weak case and getting weaker as time wore on; it was not RFG's fault that it was.

It was, by the Fall of 2005, very advantageous for the DA's Office to offer such a deal and it was advantageous for Vargas, because he'd get out of jail.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila <Snip>
...it was still a weak case and getting weaker as time wore on; it was not RFG's fault that it was. It was, by the Fall of 2005, very advantageous for the DA's Office to offer such a deal and it was advantageous for Vargas, because he'd get out of jail. You are not looking at the practical realities of life...as they existed in April 2005. MOO

[gstickley]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


I don't know if it is "over," but I hope not. I do however hold out some hope that someone will say something that will trigger something in someone's mind.

Nobody here has the answer, but somebody here might end up asking the right question (even by accident).

IIRC, sometime before I joined, there was talk of shutting the board down.

I have to admit it, I get very discouraged when "Al" posts a legitimate point on the State College Board, and all that he gets is a "joke" about Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis. :( [/*]

"Asking the right question". That's rich. Questions have been asked for the past 3 years, with very few answers ever received. Oh, yeah, LE was supposedly monitoring the board; now I understand they're no longer doing that. So what? How many questions did they ever answer? How many suggestions did they ever take? How much information did they give out to the public? Exactly what have they done in the past 3 years? The "new" OIC of the so-called investigation has apparently spent the past year reading the files (not sure if it's one bank box or 4 boxes & a dufflebag). Of course, the "new" OIC has reportedly been part of the investigation since the very beginning. Must be a real slow reader! Also understand the 'voice of Centre Co. & the Gricar investigation' is no longer monitoring the board. So what? Doesn't appear he answered very many questions either.

"Asking the right question"? To whom? By whom? Posters on this forum??? There've hardly been any questions asked, opinions given, or general talk in general, that haven't been red-marked, ridiculed, picked apart. So, who's to be 'asking the questions'? Who's going to know if the questions have or ever will be answered?

Three (3) years, People. Three (3) years. Nothing more done in the past year than was done in the first two. Maybe, instead of 'asking questions', we ought to just copy & paste questions from April 2005 forward. Might save a little pain from poor old arthritic fingers.

[Serendipitous1]

The questions have all been asked. Too few have been answered. Too bad for Ray Gricar, and his loved ones. MOO

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
You are not looking at the practical realities of life...as they existed in April 2005. MOO [/*]

I am, from the point of view of the people associated with the Vargas case, on 4/15/05.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by gstickley


"Asking the right question". That's rich. Questions have been asked for the past 3 years, with very few answers ever received. Oh, yeah, LE was supposedly monitoring the board; now I understand they're no longer doing that. So what? How many questions did they ever answer?

Fingerprints, scent, are two that jump to mind. Earlier there questions about where the cell call was from.

Some thinks have grown from the board; Wiley is one that we know about. I strongly suspect there are others out there.

Let me ask you this question, except for the possibility of trying to solve this, why are you posting? How will you attempt to solve it if you don't ask questions? I admire some of those people that can get to the area and look, especially S1. I can't do that and I don't expect you to.

How else would you further the case, but by asking questions?

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
I am, from the point of view of the people associated with the Vargas case, on 4/15/05. You are not, in my opinion...but I give you the 'last' word (tonight at least). Make sure you know what you are talking about, before you answer. The 'atmosphere' which existed in April '05 is important to this case. MOO

Edited to add: I have 'lustorumanimae's' most relevant post, as well as JKA's campaign remarks. I am still looking for 'the big secret'...not 'the big lie'.

[puzzled]

Hey S1 were you on the boards when Barebrick was posting? I still do not think that his posts should be discounted just because they were strange. I truly believe that he knew something and was trying to give us clues. He mentioned an unwanted baby. Do you think that it could be the VM baby that he was talking about? I wish like anything that he would come back to the boards and give us some more clues. Perhaps he is a friend /relative of VM and knew that the baby was not wanted by the father or possibly the mother??? Guys the main reason why I have "ranted" about having a protest is because I do not want to be here posting 3 more years from now. I am a patient person but that is asking alot from all of us. I had no idea that I was ticking off TG and am not happy with myself for doing so. I honestly thought that everyone would think it was a great idea and would rally around and support it. I guess I am naive. I am a child of the 60's and back then people would just band together and throw a fit whenever they wanted to bring about change. If it helps for me to just go away and stay off the boards I am willing to do so. Rarely have I ever even mentioned Lara and I really did not realize that it would upset TG for me to beg her to come forward. I feel like such an idiot now. Although I have not walked in their shoes I have walked in my own which have been equally horrible in many respects. You become so sensitive emotionally that it is beyond description. I had no idea that I was furthering their pain and am therefore quite ashamed of myself.

[Serendipitous1]

What is, and what is 'apparent', gets somewhat 'muddied'. All I can offer is to keep asking questions...and expecting answers. When the questions, and answers, are done....so is Ray Gricar. MOO

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
What is, and what is 'apparent', gets somewhat 'muddied'. All I can offer is to keep asking questions...and expecting answers. When the questions, and answers, are done....so is Ray Gricar. MOO [/*]

NO, when the questions stop it means we have been beaten down for asking them and there are never any answers anyways. We can't let them beat us down or then Ray Gricar is done! Someone has to still be caring or we wouldn't be here and I won't be beaten down. I am not giving up. I am looking and researching and picking apart statements made by others and then researching more.

There is an answer out there, we just have to ask the right questions to the right person! And a weak willed perpetrator will spill their guts and turn on their boss real quick. It is going to happen!

[J. J. in Phila]

Puzzled, if I thought that LG coming forward would help, I'd be ranting as well. :)

One of the reasons I get annoyed at other posters is because they seem to turn off the public with some the even tamer theories.

Originally posted by puzzled If it helps for me to just go away and stay off the boards I am willing to do so.

I've volunteered to leave on at least one occasion, simply because I thought I might hinder the case or the public perception of it.

[sherrijean981]

Good Morning Everyone!

I am sitting here, in my livingroom, listening to the beautiful sound of Spring, outside my patio doors. A sign of new life, new things to come and new starts. For me, a good sign of renewed energy in my search for answers.

Thank you God! Let the day begin on my quest!

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
What is, and what is 'apparent', gets somewhat 'muddied'. All I can offer is to keep asking questions...and expecting answers. When the questions, and answers, are done....so is Ray Gricar. MOO [/*]

Just a small reminder S1...just don't hold your breath for the answers when you ask them...or you might be in trouble.:no:

[gstickley]

It's heartwarming to know that some people/communities care about their missing persons.

I found this on the Missing Persons forum. Brian disappeared 2 years ago. The people/community apparently care about him. There was also a candlelight vigil planned.

Too bad Ray Gricar hasn't been worth this amount of effort!

butterfly28
Member

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 312
Upcoming search and blood drive
from www.findbrianshaffer.com

UPCOMING SEARCH:

We will be conducting a search on Sunday, March 16th at 2 p.m. at Scioto Boulevard. We will meet at the parking lot West of High Street, off of Greenlawn Avenue (north of Lou Berliner Park). If you need additional information, please contact Randy at randy85723@gmail.com

BLOOD DRIVE

A blood drive will also be held on Saturday, March 29th in Brian and Renee's honor. Details of location and time yet to come.


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03-14-2008 02:51 AM

[gstickley]

This post was found in Missing People forum; it is follow-up to my above post.

(Sorry, Mr. Gricar. All we're supposed to do is 'ask questions'.)

FindMissing
Member

Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 20
Blood drive and candlelight vigil update
We had the blood drive and were thankfully able to raise more than their goal. That was great news and it was nice to see everyone there, remembering Brian and his mother Renee.

We then gathered at the Ugly Tuna and had dinner with Brian's friends and family. The candlelight vigil was very nice (though the wind was NOT working with us). All three channels were there reporting and each gave a nice amount of time on the nightly news to Brian and to the other missing.

Randy had 1,000 green balloons to represent the missing in Ohio. They were released into the air and it was a very powerful moment. Green = hope.

I created a video for the event. Go to www.findbrianshaffer.com and it will automatically load.

Thanks so much for each of you remembering Brian and his family.



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03-31-2008 08:42 PM

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks



Thanks for the link, GS.
How very sad........loving prayers going out for him, his family and loved ones.

How interesting is it though that there are candlelight vigils, blood drives AND searches, actual searches being done...........can you believe it, and two years later? Notice also the searches are not all in the immediate vicinity of where he was last seen.

The only official searches we have heard of in RG's case were conducted a short time after he went missing, and then again, a few months later, one or two unofficial searches, conducted by the psychic and company at what I assume must have been 'vision' sites, not the area where either the laptop or the hard drive were later found.

We did have the comment about hunters going out into the woods about six months later, who might trip across something, but that would hardly be called a 'search' conducted by hunters.

How strange is it that the laptop and hard drive were found relatively close to the car and nothing else ever found? That surely would point toward the possibility that both were planted, IMO. If that IS the case, and they were planted there, no need to plant in that location unless that wasn't the location where something actually happened to RG. So where would one search?

We know the call was said to have come in from somewhere in the Rebersburg area and the car was found in Lewisburg. Has the rest of the road and enbankment areas between Rebersburg and Lewisburg been searched? I am not talking about a 'fly-over' looking for a car the first day, or a drive-by. I am talking about an 'on foot' search. Has it been done?

I know we can 'assume' route 192 was searched, but who would have ever believed the river area near the car wasn't being watched after the water level fell? I surely would have thought LE would have been on the look-out there for months after he disappeared, considering his laptop, his keys, his sunglasses, and RG himself were all missing. That would include blue jeans, blue fleece, sneakers to add to the list of missing items, plus any other under clothing.

Why is it that strangers had to trip over evidence that obviously would have been right under LE's noses if they were actually searching? Makes no sense to me. I guess if they thought watching the river to see if anything else showed up as the water level fell was too much, checking the entire roadside down route 192 would really be more than we could ever expect to have been done. Has such a search ever been conducted since RG went missing?

The same could be said for any roads leading off from route 192, and also route 45. Has there been a search team that has conducted ANY roadside searches? And if not, why not?
JMO [/*]

When we went down Rt 192 there were large sections of the highway that had either a large drop off and you couldn't even park a car to walk the area, and it is loaded with Mountain Laurel and Pines, shrubs. You would probably have to get right in there to look. I had told my hubby it would have been a perfect place to "disappear" him, to the point you could not see through the shrubs, trees and brush.

Perfect idea to go back and search. There were also areas off Rt 192 that you could drive up to "vista's" and over to Rt 45 on one and to Rt 64 on the other and then I-80. The park on Rt 192 has one road that goes over to a vista.

Didn't S1 or someone else come over one of the roads from Rt 64 or near Lock Haven?

[sherrijean981]

When Carla Baron and her team were in Lewisburg, the Medium, said he could "hear" three things being thrown in the river.

Has anyone ever taken an underwater metal detector near where he heard the sound, either when the river was low or in a small boat? Maybe the keys could be found that way.

Just a thought.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
When Carla Baron and her team were in Lewisburg, the Medium, said he could "hear" three things being thrown in the river.

Has anyone ever taken an underwater metal detector near where he heard the sound, either when the river was low or in a small boat? Maybe the keys could be found that way.

Just a thought. [/*]

Not that I've heard of. The river does have a reasonable amount of metal it it (cans and the like) judging from what the did fish out.

It would have been possible to get from 192 to Lock Haven. I think it was shorter than getting to Lewisburg.

[sherrijean981]

TG had mentioned a couple of TV networks prime time programs running a story on RG around the 3rd yr of his disappearance. Has anyone heard if it is still going to happen?

What about the local Central PA TV networks? Are they not going to do a story?

What of the local newspaper, CDT?

I don't know if anyone else has had the problem, but I can't get the "Ray Gricar Q&A" at the CDT to open up. I did contact Pete and he has reported the problem and it is being checked out. He was wondering why he has had no one posting since it is so close to the anniversary date.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Not that I've heard of. The river does have a reasonable amount of metal it it (cans and the like) judging from what the did fish out.

It would have been possible to get from 192 to Lock Haven. I think it was shorter than getting to Lewisburg. [/*]

Maybe a very large magnet would work. From what the Medium had said those keys might not be in the area where the laptop and hard drive were found. Just how deep is the water south of the bridge?

[gstickley]

I doubt if there is nearly as much Centre Co. apathy among citizens as some believe. I believe there are people there who are concerned about the disappearance of their District Attorney.

However, I believe some apathy is felt by Centre Co. citizens could have been overcome with a smidgen of effort on the part of a few, namely PF, LG, co-workers, the DA's office, the BPD.

Previously, I noted posts from the Missing People forum relating to Brian Shaffer, missing from OH. At the 2-year anniversary of his disappearance, a blood drive was held on behalf of his family, a candlelight vigil was held, a get-together at a restaurant, balloons were released, banners & flyers were put up. It was obvious that citizens of the area surely remembered Brian Shaffer & did not let his memory fade.

At the 2-year anniversary of the disappearance of Ray Gricar there was nothing. A blip in the CDT & WJAC TV (could have been a couple other blips that I don't know about) was it. In the past year, there have been a couple items, mainly about the appearance of the 'books', even an article about RG, which ended with 'we may never know what happened to him'. Oh, yeah, don't forget the Q&A blog in the CDT, which promised answers that didn't appear, then the 'woe is me, nothing is happening'. A new OIC is supposedly in charge of the investigation; how many press releases from him have there been in the past year? How much publicity has there been about Ray Gricar in the past year, or even in the past two years? Not very much. Any candlelight vigils, banners, flyers, balloons for Ray Gricar. None. How many comments in the media by those closest to Ray Gricar (the 2 closest friends, the 'soul mate', the daughter, anybody)?

Exactly what has been done to keep Ray Gricar's disappearance on the minds of citizens of Centre Co.?

If the 'tearful soul mate' had made any effort to get people involved in a remembrance for RG, surely someone would have shown up; after all, she's from 'a prominent family'. Who better to have planned something than a member of a 'prominent family', the 'tearful soul mate', an courthouse employee, even an employee of DA's office, on good terms with LE? It would have shown others that somebody still missed him; it could have involved other courthouse employees, DA office employees, & who knows who else may have shown up. If the press had been involved, heaven knows politicians might have crawled out of the woodwork for the publicity. It seemed to have worked in OH, why not Happy Valley? I feel sure TG & family would have been present, maybe even LG. I believe it could have been a 'classy'event, to remember whom I believe to be a 'classy' person. It might even be conceivable that questions would be asked by the public to the 'powers to be' about the investigation into Ray Gricar's disappearance if the public knew there were a number of people who remembered him.

But . . . dead silence all around! Ho-hum, another year has gone by. Ray Gricar may have committed suicide, he may have walked away, he may have been a victim of foul play; not to worry, there's a new investigator on the job. And . . . apparently it's just up to a few posters on an obscure message board to keep on asking questions, that's all that's needed! Keep everyone else in the dark, pat their backs, make them think 'no stone has been left unturned'.

[Serendipitous1]

I think the family's response has been 'measured' heretofore. And I think the family should 'rethink' that strategy. It has not worked in Ray Gricar's favor. JMOO

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
I think the family's response has been 'measured' heretofore. And I think the family should 'rethink' that strategy. It has not worked in Ray Gricar's favor. JMOO [/*]

IMO, the family's response was "measured" because they were led down the yellow brick road by Zaccagni.

[gstickley]

Originally posted by Politigal


IMO, the family's response was "measured" because they were led down the yellow brick road by Zaccagni. [/*]

I agree, Pgal. And . . . thus far, I haven't seen too much difference from his replacement. Further, the fact that the same chief has been in place for the past 2 yrs. doesn't help matters either!

I can see how it could happen with the family, as all are out of state. But . . . PF?????

[Politigal]

Originally posted by gstickley


I agree, Pgal. And . . . thus far, I haven't seen too much difference from his replacement. Further, the fact that the same chief has been in place for the past 2 yrs. doesn't help matters either!

I can see how it could happen with the family, as all are out of state. But . . . PF????? [/*]

Exactly -- not a peep!

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
I think the family's response has been 'measured' heretofore. And I think the family should 'rethink' that strategy. It has not worked in Ray Gricar's favor. JMOO [/*]

I totally agree with S1. I have been sick with worry since Ray went missing. I was totally obsessed. I wondered and wondered and wondered why isn't the family doing more. If Ray is truly missing get a good detective and look into the case and make payment when the money is received. Speak out. Tell the Centre County Citizens that you are not satisfied. I am not going to blame it on the Yellow Brick Road. By the family not getting into Centre County and throwing a fit, they are either telling me that they know what happened to Ray or they don't care that much.

When S1 suggested that TG keep the site up, TG had a response that I will not repeat. In my book it is taking the Lord's name in vain. Why not just say something like you better believe it will be kept up. TG agreed to be the family spokesman, I haven't heard hardly anything news wise lately from him. He comes on here, but most of Centre County isn't here.

They talk about all they have gone through, take having to quit your good job and go to FL. and live out of a suitcase for about 6 months while you watch your dad who is alert, staying hooked to a ventilator. Be the only one of his children that spend that time with him, with him not being about to speak. Watch him die a little more day by day until the day comes. Everyone has gone through hard times, you do what you have to do. I am not bragging, I am just telling it like it is.

The Citizens of Centre County haven't heard from the family so like me they think if the family has stopped complaining then they must know that Ray is ok.

Don't blame Centre County Citizens. If the family would arrange and get involved the citizens are behind them.

JUST MY OWN OPINION.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks

nothing in the 'newly created' q and a section,
JMO [/*]

We should be asking, "Why was the original Q&A section removed? Who removed it? Was there anything on it that touched a nerve or caused them to question the poster of the question?"

Pete had nothing to do with the removal of the first Q&A. He wasn't aware it was not working until I questioned him on it by email. Maybe the CDT's owners should be questioned on the removal and why.

Good job Pete getting another Q&A up again. Guess I should have saved copies of the old one, just to have the answers handy when I need to look something up. My loss. :(

[Cinderella]

I don't know who the expert is Logic, what I do feel is why the the people were called upon to help and for tips. It seems like the people are stuck when they truly do want to help, but the Gricar family doesn't want their help.

Maybe if this is the case, the Gricar family should have Pete write an article to say that they don't need the people's help anymore. This case has affected a lot of people. I know that it has caused worry and health problems to a lot of people. It is one thing for Ray to have walked away, but it is another case for someone to have harmed him and officials to do hardly nothing. I was very upset with Ray's co=workers until I have decided that people just don't let others be taken and harmed without them speaking up. To me it seemed like some one's plan and it backfired. I can see where Ray would not want anyone to know where he is, but at least the family could say, We have heard from him and he is ok and this whatever you call it, would be over.

On the other hand if Ray is truly missing, then something is wrong with this family. Like I said before, they would have the means to get a good detective and pay the detective when they would get Ray's money. It seems as if they don't even want to do that. I can't for the life of me figure this family out except to say that they must know that Ray is safe. Did anyone ask TG what year the picture of Ray in the white T=Shirt was taken. I know that TG will not answer my questions. :confused:

[puzzled]

Do you guys think we could have a Rally for Ray a few days before the election perhaps on Tom Corbets office steps? Then have a candlelight vigil for Ray at the courthouse? I am willing to come and partcipate. Why should TC be reelected if he won't step in and do something to help find Ray?

[Cinderella]

Another way maybe to get attention is that Chris Exchardos or however you spell his name was a Centre County Commissioner when Ray disappeared, he is now running for Congress. I don't think that he would much like the fact that he couldn't help his citizens out with putting pressure on LE or MM so why vote for him for Congress?

Maybe he would start to pay attention to what citizens have to say then.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks



Enough questions have been raised on board about the new 'tan' photo. If 'someone' wanted to answer, they would have. The new photo appears on the website claiming RG is a missing person, so it had to be an earlier photo, considering if the family had received the photo from RG since then, he would not technically be considered 'missing'.

I seriously doubt, even at this late date, that a PA team of PI's wouldn't continue to offer to investigate the RG case for free. The problem rests in the hands of the local DA who refuses to turn the evidence over to anyone else, thus saving the AG's office from having to open their 'own' can of worms, and especially NOT right now, just before election.

That is why it is SO important this case be taken higher than the problem level. The problem level is higher than the local.
JMO [/*]

Then it is time to get DA Madeira out of office next election! Only Centre Countians can do that too. Question is: do THEY think DA Madeira is doing a good job and want a repeat of him another 4 years? Or has he left a few stones unturned for too long? They might want someone who can get a dozer to move those stones!

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by gstickley
At the 2-year anniversary of his disappearance, a blood drive was held on behalf of his family, a candlelight vigil was held, a get-together at a restaurant, balloons were released, banners & flyers were put up. It was obvious that citizens of the area surely remembered Brian Shaffer & did not let his memory fade.
[/*]Again, feel free to initiate anything you see has a help to Ray's case. I've always maintained availability for those here who come up with various ideas of support/protest. I've yet had to follow up on this. Not once. As the article you posted stated, "on behalf of his family". Any time someone would step up to do anything on behalf of Ray Gricar, I can assure you I/we would weigh in.

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by logicworks


That about sums it up, Cind. Public sentiment is most moved by outpouring from loved ones in missing person cases.
Third year anniversary right around the corner, and
I haven't heard of anything going on, have you? No candlelight vigil that I am aware of; nothing in the 'newly created' q and a section, where you can ask an 'expert'. By the way, WHO is the expert?
JMO [/*]As I've said before, and as you have readily acknowledged, you are a CC voter. Organize your candlelight vigil. Spending 3 years on a message board is one thing, but don't keep screaming complacency.

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by Cinderella
IOn the other hand if Ray is truly missing, then something is wrong with this family. [/*]Clearly.
Thanks for your lucid conjecture...

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by logicworks
Enough questions have been raised on board about the new 'tan' photo. If 'someone' wanted to answer, they would have. The new photo appears on the website claiming RG is a missing person, so it had to be an earlier photo, considering if the family had received the photo from RG since then, he would not technically be considered 'missing'. [/*]Havent been here so I wasnt aware of all the questions. Everyone here knows how to reach me, but nobody did. Ray was mid-50's in that photo.

[sherrijean981]

This is ridiculous! You keep harping on PF! When she was front page and talking to the press, it was said she had no tears or crocodile tears or what looked like a smile in a situation that didn't require a smile. Or a good actor. The poor girl can not win with you!

After 3 years of this forum ragging on her, you then want her to come out and do something for the 3 year anniversary of RG's disappearance.

Why are you not asking the DA's office why they haven't done anything? or the Commissioner's office? He worked for them, he went missing on their watch. Did you ever wonder if Centre County just doesn't care? Not PF!!

TG has said many times anyone could do something but no one has come forward from this forum to do it. Certainly not you, who supposedly is from CC, and can do something most of us can't do. Guess it is easier to blame everyone else. :shrug:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



ONE day before the anniversary you come on to give a family nod and say go ahead and organize a candlelight vigil? Now I personally have never heard of a candlelight vigil without family involvement.



TG is pointing out that you do not need his permission to have a vigil. You could have done that from the start (though I'm frankly worried about public interest).:rolleyes:

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks


Certainly 'all amazing knowledge' for you to personally know about me and my movements, considering I have deliberately at no time told you what I have or haven't done.

If PF would have no part in the first candlelight vigil, did nothing on her own the second year, why would I ever expect her to be a part of a third year vigil? The first response was more than adequate for me. The problem level is of no interest to me because I know nothing will ever move at that level.

TG stated anyone who wanted to protest could. If you care to, have at it. At no time have I seen any mention of a public gathering with the family upcoming.

I have been a dedicated poster calling for truth and justice for RG on this board for nearly three years. I have been, am now, and will continue to do my best to see that will be forthcoming. I will not stop with a third anniversary, with a vigil or without one; with a protest, or without one; with your approval on method or procedure or without it.
JMO [/*]

Oh come off it! So what, you do things behind the scene. No more or less than many others on here.

I can see you going on with your "truth and justice" for RG, you at the front of the line with your stake, looking for PF's head.

Just remember, you and others on here are constantly running her down, and I have been sitting here reading and not saying anything, and you all just go on and on. Well I have decided I am going to be a Pro Patty, so now the board will really get wild.

Day said she hoped RG did walk and found a new love and family that would love him, well I am wondering if he has been killed, what his thoughts would be if he could see and hear how you all go on about his "soul mate", that he was planning on taking with him when he retired and running TG, LG and others in the family down for what you perceive as "doing nothing".

I think he would be ashamed of the people he stood up for and protected for his 30 years. Just wish he could be here to say it!

[gstickley]

This is where we were last year . . .


[ Monday, April 16, 2007 ]

After two years, Gricar's disappearance 'still difficult' for family


By Halle Stockton
Collegian Staff Writer
Time can heal all wounds -- an old phrase frequently offered to people dealing with hardship. But Patty Fornicola said the expression is not quite true.

Time has grown "more tolerable" since the mysterious disappearance two years ago of her longtime boyfriend and former Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar, but it hasn't healed her wounds, she said.

"It's still difficult ..." she said, struggling through each word. "I pray ... I pray for strength. I think of all the good times we had."

Fornicola last heard from Gricar two years ago yesterday -- April 15, 2005 -- when he called her to say he wouldn't be home to feed their dog. He was taking the afternoon off from work and driving on Route 192. She didn't think twice about it until he didn't come home that evening.

His red and white Mini Cooper was found empty in the parking lot of a Lewisburg antiques mall the following day.

Gricar's laptop, missing its hard drive, was found in the Susquehanna River in July. The hard drive was found in October about 100 yards from where the laptop had been found. It was damaged beyond repair, and no data could be salvaged.

Bellefonte Police Chief Shawn Weaver said police are re-examining the case thus far and continue to follow leads, however slim.

"The brunt of the work has been done," Weaver said. "Now, it's just going back over and looking at it with fresh eyes."

In January, the Bellefonte police department announced the approaching retirement of lead investigator Darrel Zaccagni and named Detective Matt Rickard to head the case. Rickard has been involved in the investigation since the beginning, Weaver said, adding that he and Zaccagni are presently working "hand in hand."

Police have repeated three possible scenarios for Gricar's disappearance: homicide, suicide and a walk-away.

Weaver said his disappearance is still in the "forefront" of their minds; however, the case has gone cold because of the lack of physical evidence.

Fornicola said she still wavers among the scenarios.

"One day I might be thinking along one line and be thinking that way for a day or so, and then I think of something that will change my mind ..." she said. "Still, there's no evidence to lead anyone down one path."

The community's memory of Gricar is now a main concern, Fornicola said.

"So many people stop me and wish me well and say they're praying for an answer, for some sort of conclusion ... " she said, "and people are well-intentioned, but I just want them to remember Ray and keep him in their thoughts."

Centre County District Attorney Michael Madeira said Gricar still remains present in the minds of many, and hope that he may return is still strong.

"No one will give up on him until and unless we know for sure that there's no reason to have hope," he said.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


Day said she hoped RG did walk and found a new love and family that would love him, well I am wondering if he has been killed, what his thoughts would be if he could see and hear how you all go on about his "soul mate", that he was planning on taking with him when he retired and running TG, LG and others in the family down for what you perceive as "doing nothing".

I think he would be ashamed of the people he stood up for and protected for his 30 years. Just wish he could be here to say it! [/*]

I think that pretty much sums it up. The family has been active in keeping the case alive (and we have seen families not doing this); the press has, more so than I've seen in most modern missing persons or murder cases. I cannot fault either.

[day2day]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


Day said she hoped RG did walk and found a new love and family that would love him, well I am wondering if he has been killed, what his thoughts would be if he could see and hear how you all go on about his "soul mate", that he was planning on taking with him when he retired and running TG, LG and others in the family down for what you perceive as "doing nothing".

[/*]

Never said a word about LG. Never said a word about TG. What i said was its pretty da$n bad that his soulmate can't take a half hour out of her life to be interviewed on the anniversary of his vanishing.

I think if Mr. Gricar is looking "down" he would be pretty darn disgusted with her too. I am pretty sure if SHE had vanished he would NEVER had sat quietly and said nothing. The proof is the way HE acted when his very own brother vanished.

IMO...

[gstickley]

I must have missed all the press conferences, news articles, public utterances, keeping RG's name in the news, not letting the public forget about him, etc., by PF in the past 2 yrs.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by gstickley
I must have missed all the press conferences, news articles, public utterances, keeping RG's name in the news, not letting the public forget about him, etc., by PF in the past 2 yrs. [/*]

Ah, what is PEF suppose to say at these press conferences, and news articles? "I don't know where Ray is?" "He hasn't called?"

[gstickley]

Right about now is the last time Ray Gricar was observed alive, 04/14/05, approx. 9:00 P.M. Three (3) years ago. :rose:

[day2day]

Originally posted by gstickley
Right about now is the last time Ray Gricar was observed alive, 04/14/05, approx. 9:00 P.M. Three (3) years ago. :rose: [/*]


:rose: :rose:

this just breaks my heart...

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by day2day


Never said a word about LG. Never said a word about TG. What i said was its pretty da$n bad that his soulmate can't take a half hour out of her life to be interviewed on the anniversary of his vanishing.

I think if Mr. Gricar is looking "down" he would be pretty darn disgusted with her too. I am pretty sure if SHE had vanished he would NEVER had sat quietly and said nothing. The proof is the way HE acted when his very own brother vanished.

IMO... [/*]

This is your statement:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by day2day



I am speechless here. (and you guys KNOW that doesnt happen often) She "refuses" to be interviewed!?! Priceless!! What happened to the "crocodile tears"...?! Soulmates....

I agree GS...I hope that Mr. Gricar walked away and ((((((is spending his life with someone who REALLY loves him and cares about him. IMO PF never did...)))))))

And(((((((( i doubt any of them are missing any sleep...))))))))

Just my opinion yanno... [/*]"
Quote



These are your words, not mine. You are not saying PF, you are saying "them"? Who are the "them"?

[Cinderella]

SherriJean, don't you get it. She means the people that don't care about Ray Gricar. What don't you understand about her statement? :confused:

Don't try to put your twisted words in her mouth.

[Cinderella]

Since we have been discussing the 3rd. Anniversary and if anything should have been done, if I disappear, I will be happy if my family does this. They love me so much that their heart aches for me. I am their everything.

It is the type of reasoning that goes with the bumper stickers that say, I am spending my childs inheritance.

Dear Ladies and Gentleman:



I would be very happy if I disappeared and no one in my family would keep my memory alive. If my family doesn't know what to do, then just in the beginning when the camera's are on, look into the camera and say, My heart aches for you. He was my soulmate and I want to be with him, but I don't know where he is. Life is too fun to be tied down to obstacles that make you spend some money or keep you from flying here or there. Spend your money flying around the world. Keep me in your heart. Who cares, out of site out of mind. Live for today. Family's don't take care of each other any more. They just stick them places where others can deal with them. He might have wanted some time away. He might have chose to end his own life. I respect that, if he wanted to do that, good going. In the meantime, when the money become available, we will make a trip up to sign papers and collect the money. We are too poor to even offer a reward, Joe Blows family can afford it but we can't. Aren't these vacations wonderful. Feel the breeze. You can still feel that a person is with you even when their are not around. Well it has been another 3rd Anniversay. You know Anniversary's bother me, they make me feel down. I don't like to feel down. I will be glad for tomorrow because then I won't have to think about it. I really should start planning my next trip.

I Love You, Mom

Sorry something had to happen to you. That is just the way life is, it just throws you those curve balls every now and then. I will probably think of you next year around this time. I hate when this day comes. Maybe I can plan on being on vacation next year.

Oh by the way, you loved your politics. I see signs everywhere to elect everyone. I don't see any signs, Where is Mom or who cares about Mom, but you know Mom, like is tough and so are politics. It would be too much of a chore for me to ask on of the elected people if they ever think of you. I gotta go and pack. Oh yes, tomorrow is another bright new day.

Love Ya.



Boy, I love my family, they love me so much. For them to even think of me. How proud I am.

Signed, Proud Mom

On the other hand, I wonder if my family were like that if I wouldn't want to not be in their lives anymore. :confused:

[Serendipitous1]

God forbid anything untoward should happen to you, C. There IS a place for you...I just do not know if there are any takers there. MOO

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
God forbid anything untoward should happen to you, C. There IS a place for you...I just do not know if there are any takers there. MOO [/*]

S1, and where might that be?

[Hbgchick]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


I don't know if it is "over," but I hope not. I do however hold out some hope that someone will say something that will trigger something in someone's mind.

Nobody here has the answer, but somebody here might end up asking the right question (even by accident).

IIRC, sometime before I joined, there was talk of shutting the board down.

I have to admit it, I get very discouraged when "Al" posts a legitimate point on the State College Board, and all that he gets is a "joke" about Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis. :( [/*]

JJ - nobody with any sense reads that State College board anymore. We've all gone here:

http://www.statecollegeforum.com/scf/

However, there is currently no Ray Gricar discussion.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Hbgchick


JJ - nobody with any sense reads that State College board anymore. We've all gone here:

http://www.statecollegeforum.com/scf/

However, there is currently no Ray Gricar discussion. [/*]

I think that's part of the problem. There is not a great deal of local pressure for this.

[Hbgchick]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


I think that's part of the problem. There is not a great deal of local pressure for this. [/*]

You're quite right. Which is what I find strangest of all, really.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Hbgchick


You're quite right. Which is what I find strangest of all, really. [/*]

My theory is that a large segment of the population, possibly a majority, thinks or thought that RFG's disappearance was voluntary, i.e. he walked away or committed suicide.

Now, as time passes, suicide becomes less likely, which is why I'd really like to see LE look at possible methods that RFG could have used to leave Lewisburg.

If they can lower the odds on walk away, that leaves murder. I'm hoping that the people of Centre County will be worried about being the next victim and demand action, in that case.

[Politigal]

in my best Annie Oakley voice....

Why of course....he was murdered.

IMO

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal
in my best Annie Oakley voice....

Why of course....he was murdered.

IMO [/*]

And other than your opinion, what evidence do you have?

Better yet, to you have any evidence that this wasn't a walk away?

[Serendipitous1]

Ya know...with all due respect to LE, TG, EN and PB...there have been fairly basic questions (as in not related or prejudicial to some nebulous future prosecution) which have gone unanswered for 3 years. And, for the life of me, I cannot understand why. So here is a 'revelation' of sorts...you shall reap as you sow. MOO

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Ya know...with all due respect to LE, TG, EN and PB...there have been fairly basic questions (as in not related or prejudicial to some nebulous future prosecution) which have gone unanswered for 3 years. And, for the life of me, I cannot understand why. So here is a 'revelation' of sorts...you shall reap as you sow. MOO [/*]Feel free to email me a list of your questions. I know of a couple, but a concise list sent to me would be appropriate for the next time I speak with LE.

[Cloudbuster]

FYI someone wrote a post titled three years and counting on this site:
http://www.statecollegeforum.com/scf/viewforum.php?f=1
The remark was about Ray having a bag full of money and staying at a cabin. Im ticked and can't join that board to comment because when you go to register they want to know the frequency hydrogen line???? What the hey is that? Im burning to comment can someone explain what they want on that line? :flamemad:

[Cloudbuster]

Where is everyone? Depressed Im sure. I hope you guys haven't given up??? Thats what they want guys. Don't even tell me everyone left????:rose:

[sherrijean981]

HI CB,
I am here researching some things. News articles and names.
Haven't given up yet.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
FYI someone wrote a post titled three years and counting on this site:
http://www.statecollegeforum.com/scf/viewforum.php?f=1
The remark was about Ray having a bag full of money and staying at a cabin. Im ticked and can't join that board to comment because when you go to register they want to know the frequency hydrogen line???? What the hey is that? Im burning to comment can someone explain what they want on that line? :flamemad: [/*]

I tried getting on this forum and there is the same problem you were talking about. It must have to do with our computers, I think. Guess if we don't know we shouldn't be there, huh?

I went through the question and answer section but no one else ask about that problem.

That board has a lot of different questions on different subjects.

[Cloudbuster]

HIYA SJ!! A very intelligent person on this board gave me the right number that goes on that line to join the board and it's 1420 and it works. I got on it. Glad to see someone post tonight. :)

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by tonyGricar
Feel free to email me a list of your questions. I know of a couple, but a concise list sent to me would be appropriate for the next time I speak with LE. Of course, what I did not append to my 'rant' was the fact that I am not entitled to answers. If you have already asked LE the questions presented here over the last 3 years, I see no point in pursuing them further. If you and Lara, and Patty, are satisfied that the questions raised here have all been adequately addressed by LE, how can I not also be satisfied?

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Of course, what I did not append to my 'rant' was the fact that I am not entitled to answers. If you have already asked LE the questions presented here over the last 3 years, I see no point in pursuing them further. If you and Lara, and Patty, are satisfied that the questions raised here have all been adequately addressed by LE, how can I not also be satisfied? [/*]

I think you are absolutely right. I also think (sadly) that it will be the end of this forum...
I can't see spending so much time here not satisfied ..when those closest to Mr. Gricar seem to be ok with the answers they have received.
I am thankful to have "met" most of ya..I have learned a little from everyone here...

:seeya:

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by day2day
I think you are absolutely right. I also think (sadly) that it will be the end of this forum...
I can't see spending so much time here not satisfied ..when those closest to Mr. Gricar seem to be ok with the answers they have received.
I am thankful to have "met" most of ya..I have learned a little from everyone here...:seeya: I was not implying that those closest to RG were ok with 'the answers'...or that we here were ok, not having 'the answers'...only that we should be (in general) ok, having asked the questions.

And I never expected to make any friends, or 'enemies', here...though I surely have done both. My apologies to all I have offended. MOO

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
I was not implying that those closest to RG were ok with 'the answers'...or that we here were ok, not having 'the answers'...only that we should be (in general) ok, having asked the questions.

And I never expected to make any friends, or 'enemies', here...though I surely have done both. My apologies to all I have offended. MOO [/*]

You didnt offend me S1...i promise. It was a great post!

[Cinderella]

S1, You have not offended me. You should have been a disc jockey with your picking appropriate songs for everyone. I have always felt highly of you and all the others. Sometimes I ranted and raved, but the moon was full and how could I help it. Friday's mostly. LOL

I was thinking of you one night when I took my dog out to go to the bathroom. I heard a weird HOWL. I thought, that doesn't sound like a dog to me, then I heard a YIP, YIP. I knew it wasn't a dog. I loved it, people told me that what I heard was a coyote.

So on some Friday night if you hear a HOWL, it is not me. LMAO

Could Wolfman Jack play a song for S1? Oh that is right, Wolf Man Jack was disc jocking when I was .... lets just say 30 some years ago and he has since passed away. I used to love to hear him on the radio. Those were the days.

[Serendipitous1]

Ray surely lives on...as does the Wolfman. There are miles to go before I sleep...and miles to go before I sleep. Some funk...for you 'fools', wherever you are tonight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2m7KYqG5s

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Cinderella <Snip>
I was thinking of you one night when I took my dog out to go to the bathroom. Somehow......that seems so-o-o apropos! lol

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks
Obviously I must be missing something here.
We have asked a gazillion questions which were not answered. Where is the satisfaction in asking for the answers and being refused?
Where is the 'end' in that?

Was something 'new' revealed this week that I missed?
Was something 'new' EXPECTED to be revealed this week, considering nothing has been forthcoming on previous anniversaries, so was someone hopeful?
I am not family but I am not satisfied and I don't need to be family to be dissatisfied.

It is very obvious where the answers will NOT come from. If I am thirsty, I don't go to a well known to have either no water or tainted water hoping my thirst will be quenched. Just because there is a sign up saying 'ONLY WELL IN TOWN' doesn't mean I am going there to quench my thirst. To do so would only leave me thirstier yet.

This once again reminds me of the middle-aged singer, who couldn't sing, but his mother's face lit up as we were all forced to listen to his off-key boisterous bellowing he called 'entertaining us'.
A gentleman in the group said all we could possibly do was hang our head in shame, for the ignorance of one so full of himself he placed self-service in front of shame, as if he didn't know. Of course, he knew. He simply didn't care about others.

I see this case much the same. While I hang my head in shame for those too ignorant to 'care, I will continue to raise my voice to demand action in this case. The ignorant merely make it that much easier to see the problem.

It is election time, and those in control want the sullied case of Ray Gricar out of sight in PA. Since it is apparent there are those who feel compelled to rise to the height of their incompetency. I will NOT assist them by not posting to insure the board will not be closed. If it is, I will search for another way, and another, and another, until an answer is found.

I moved away from two counties prior to Centre because of politicians who insisted on running the county into the ground regardless of what the people wanted. I guess this third time is the charm. I will stay to fight for what is right this time.

What has happened or rather NOT happened in the investigation of the RG case is NOT right. It's not right locally and it's not right State-wise. Until it is, I will not give up hope.......but I know hope has to be based on more than just my own desire for a certain outcome. It must have arms and legs that do the work necessary, so while I hope, I will work so that an outcome is known, whatever it may prove to be, instead of locked up in the files in Bellefonte with M. Madeira sitting firmly on top of them with a wink and a nod from TC.

Morganelli for Attorney General!!!!

JMO Bump...sorry logicworks, I did not see you standing there.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by logicworks


Obviously I must be missing something here.
We have asked a gazillion questions which were not answered. Where is the satisfaction in asking for the answers and being refused?
Where is the 'end' in that?

Was something 'new' revealed this week that I missed?
Was something 'new' EXPECTED to be revealed this week, considering nothing has been forthcoming on previous anniversaries, so was someone hopeful?
I am not family but I am not satisfied and I don't need to be family to be dissatisfied.

It is very obvious where the answers will NOT come from. If I am thirsty, I don't go to a well known to have either no water or tainted water hoping my thirst will be quenched. Just because there is a sign up saying 'ONLY WELL IN TOWN' doesn't mean I am going there to quench my thirst. To do so would only leave me thirstier yet.

This once again reminds me of the middle-aged singer, who couldn't sing, but his mother's face lit up as we were all forced to listen to his off-key boisterous bellowing he called 'entertaining us'.
A gentleman in the group said all we could possibly do was hang our head in shame, for the ignorance of one so full of himself he placed self-service in front of shame, as if he didn't know. Of course, he knew. He simply didn't care about others.

I see this case much the same. While I hang my head in shame for those too ignorant to 'care, I will continue to raise my voice to demand action in this case. The ignorant merely make it that much easier to see the problem.

It is election time, and those in control want the sullied case of Ray Gricar out of sight in PA. Since it is apparent there are those who feel compelled to rise to the height of their incompetency. I will NOT assist them by not posting to insure the board will not be closed. If it is, I will search for another way, and another, and another, until an answer is found.

I moved away from two counties prior to Centre because of politicians who insisted on running the county into the ground regardless of what the people wanted. I guess this third time is the charm. I will stay to fight for what is right this time.

What has happened or rather NOT happened in the investigation of the RG case is NOT right. It's not right locally and it's not right State-wise. Until it is, I will not give up hope.......but I know hope has to be based on more than just my own desire for a certain outcome. It must have arms and legs that do the work necessary, so while I hope, I will work so that an outcome is known, whatever it may prove to be, instead of locked up in the files in Bellefonte with M. Madeira sitting firmly on top of them with a wink and a nod from TC.

Morganelli for Attorney General!!!!

JMO [/*]

wow....:patriot:

[day2day]

Originally posted by logicworks


Obviously I must be missing something here.
We have asked a gazillion questions which were not answered. Where is the satisfaction in asking for the answers and being refused?
Where is the 'end' in that?

Was something 'new' revealed this week that I missed?
Was something 'new' EXPECTED to be revealed this week, considering nothing has been forthcoming on previous anniversaries, so was someone hopeful?
I am not family but I am not satisfied and I don't need to be family to be dissatisfied.

It is very obvious where the answers will NOT come from. If I am thirsty, I don't go to a well known to have either no water or tainted water hoping my thirst will be quenched. Just because there is a sign up saying 'ONLY WELL IN TOWN' doesn't mean I am going there to quench my thirst. To do so would only leave me thirstier yet.

This once again reminds me of the middle-aged singer, who couldn't sing, but his mother's face lit up as we were all forced to listen to his off-key boisterous bellowing he called 'entertaining us'.
A gentleman in the group said all we could possibly do was hang our head in shame, for the ignorance of one so full of himself he placed self-service in front of shame, as if he didn't know. Of course, he knew. He simply didn't care about others.

I see this case much the same. While I hang my head in shame for those too ignorant to 'care, I will continue to raise my voice to demand action in this case. The ignorant merely make it that much easier to see the problem.

It is election time, and those in control want the sullied case of Ray Gricar out of sight in PA. Since it is apparent there are those who feel compelled to rise to the height of their incompetency. I will NOT assist them by not posting to insure the board will not be closed. If it is, I will search for another way, and another, and another, until an answer is found.

I moved away from two counties prior to Centre because of politicians who insisted on running the county into the ground regardless of what the people wanted. I guess this third time is the charm. I will stay to fight for what is right this time.

What has happened or rather NOT happened in the investigation of the RG case is NOT right. It's not right locally and it's not right State-wise. Until it is, I will not give up hope.......but I know hope has to be based on more than just my own desire for a certain outcome. It must have arms and legs that do the work necessary, so while I hope, I will work so that an outcome is known, whatever it may prove to be, instead of locked up in the files in Bellefonte with M. Madeira sitting firmly on top of them with a wink and a nod from TC.

Morganelli for Attorney General!!!!

JMO [/*]

LW...
I admire you!! You tell it like it is...and don't stop until someone hears you!!
:seeya:

[gstickley]

Thank you, S1, for The Wolfman memories. You just sent me back into a time that I'd just about forgotten about, a carefree time when the only big worries were the next exam & what to wear to school; a bit strange that you brought it up tonight: the moon is full &, while at a ballgame, I actually thought about all the moonlight nights of my teenage years. Very strange. Oh, The Wolfman!

Thank you, LW, for your down-to-earthness & your logic. As long as there is breath in us, we ought to continue our efforts to get answers about the disappearance of Ray Gricar. We can't give up on him, even though this is the most depressing thing I've ever done. This past week was terrible; I wasn't expecting anything, was surprised at what was there, then angry that there wasn't more. I'm going to end this week of almost mourning & try to start next week all over again, without all the depression.

Signed: "Fool #2"

[Politigal]

Originally posted by gstickley
Thank you, S1, for The Wolfman memories. You just sent me back into a time that I'd just about forgotten about, a carefree time when the only big worries were the next exam & what to wear to school; a bit strange that you brought it up tonight: the moon is full &, while at a ballgame, I actually thought about all the moonlight nights of my teenage years. Very strange. Oh, The Wolfman!

Thank you, LW, for your down-to-earthness & your logic. As long as there is breath in us, we ought to continue our efforts to get answers about the disappearance of Ray Gricar. We can't give up on him, even though this is the most depressing thing I've ever done. This past week was terrible; I wasn't expecting anything, was surprised at what was there, then angry that there wasn't more. I'm going to end this week of almost mourning & try to start next week all over again, without all the depression.

Signed: "Fool #2" [/*]

Gstickley - sorry if I sounded depressed in my "hopeless" post...

I guess I'm just frustrated more than anything. We've all posed lots of questions here and had suspicions about various aspects of the case & investigation, and there are still lots of unanswered questions lying in limbo. I know that we aren't family - that we aren't connected to the case in any way - and that we aren't really entitled to more - but IMO - there hasn't been enough "stink" raised in this case by those closest to Gricar.

Pete Bosak recently wrote that Detective Rickard was surprised that more people haven't called/contacted him about this case.

As a last ditch effort (and I'm not suggesting that we all bombard Rickard with calls) -- why don't we start a new thread with a list of unanswered questions/suspicions - collaborate on those lists & organize them into one piece of correspondence and send it to Det. Rickard by fax or by courier or by carrier pigeon?

:shrug:

[puzzled]

Pgal I just want to say that I am terribly sorry that you lost your husband suddenly and unexpectedly. I understand your feelings completely. My beautiful son was killed May 2nd 1997. He was 17. A car /semi accident ended his life. One minute he was smiling and laughing and moments later literally he was on his way to heaven. We were not allowed to see him one last time. His injuries are too horrifying to divulge. For a long time I was just sure that he was going to come back and come right up those steps again! I bargained and pleaded with God to please give me back my son and take me instead! I could not swallow for the first four days because the lump in my throat was so huge and present. I could not stop crying for months and years. I stood before his walnut coffin and greeted what seemed like thousands of friends and family members...trying my best to comfort them. Then came the suicide plans. For years (5) everyday I thought I would just end it all. I did not want to stay here without my son. Once I stopped focusing on how much I missed him and how heartbroken I was I started thinking about how devastated my daughter would be once I ended my life. I began to heal about the size of a grain of sand each day. Obviously God had big plans for me. I am still terribly sad and yet I have a very full and wonderful new life and am VERY blessed. I have decided to let God determine when I shall reunite with my son. I am so very thankful that I have a place to go and that I can take flowers and pay my respects to my son who had more integrity and kindness in his heart than anyone I have ever known. My prayer is that some day Rays loved ones will also have that. Nothing is worse than not knowing. I shall carry on. I will pray for you.

[Politigal]

what a sweet, sweet post Puzzled.....thank you

[gstickley]

Originally posted by Politigal


Gstickley - sorry if I sounded depressed in my "hopeless" post...

I guess I'm just frustrated more than anything. We've all posed lots of questions here and had suspicions about various aspects of the case & investigation, and there are still lots of unanswered questions lying in limbo. I know that we aren't family - that we aren't connected to the case in any way - and that we aren't really entitled to more - but IMO - there hasn't been enough "stink" raised in this case by those closest to Gricar.

Pete Bosak recently wrote that Detective Rickard was surprised that more people haven't called/contacted him about this case.

As a last ditch effort (and I'm not suggesting that we all bombard Rickard with calls) -- why don't we start a new thread with a list of unanswered questions/suspicions - collaborate on those lists & organize them into one piece of correspondence and send it to Det. Rickard by fax or by courier or by carrier pigeon?

:shrug: [/*]

Depressed . . . frustrated. I have a feeling we all feel that way at this particular time. This past week was the pits. Let's dig our way out now.

I think your suggestion of starting a new thread with a list of unanswered questions/suspicions is good, & I think we should do it. At this point, we have nothing to lose! (Can you all start without me until tomorrow, as I'm absolutely exhausted from an entire day spent in the great outdoors.)

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by day2day
I can't see spending so much time here not satisfied ..when those closest to Mr. Gricar seem to be ok with the answers they have received. [/*]

Don't confuse "satisfied" with "resigned".

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Of course, what I did not append to my 'rant' was the fact that I am not entitled to answers. If you have already asked LE the questions presented here over the last 3 years, I see no point in pursuing them further. If you and Lara, and Patty, are satisfied that the questions raised here have all been adequately addressed by LE, how can I not also be satisfied? [/*]

I would be happy at this point if LE would look at some of the methods of walkaway and rule it out (or in). It's not a lot of man hours of work.

[Cinderella]

I would like to see Lara, Patty, and Tony get a lie detector test now. Family's just don't resign themselves to this. TG almost resigned himself to Ray committing suicide in the beginining. They either know where he is or some one in the family did harm to Ray and they are covering it up. MY OPINION ONLY.

[J. J. in Phila]

I think almost uniformly people outside of the case are saying, interview/re-interview, and polygraph/re-polygraph those people that constitute the inner circle around RFG.

Why it isn't being done, I don't know.

[Cloudbuster]

JJ I see nothing to be done. What I do see is a thick layer of onions that need PEELED on alot of levels. Those levels unfortunatly hold power that would be hard to shake. There is so much more to this case, it sickens me. It IMHO involves high level corruption at it's finest. I know RG did not walk away but you are right that needs checked out. I will say it again that RG is on some type of private property making it virtually impossible without evidence to go there.
JMHO:seeya: