Thursday - 03-06-08 a.m. [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

AJandTam

03-06-2008, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by henry
good morning . . . well, let me tell you - it's really hard lately coming up with some topical articles/information these past couple days. the best i can do this morning, unfortunately, is to "spring forward" this saturday nite, and to continue my prayers for the lauterbach family. [/*]

Good Morning henry. I agree, seems like we've hashed and rehashed this story to death since we aren't getting any new information. While we wait, i'm taking a look at the missing father in Seattle's case.

The missing women from O'Hare airport called in last night. She's not missing anymore. Good news there at least.

AJandTam

03-06-2008, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by henry
ot - sorry - explosion in times square military recruiting station/building - hope everyone's safe. :patriot: [/*]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335435,00.html

The building was empty thank goodness. This happened in the wee hours of the night.

henry

03-06-2008, 09:01 AM

:seeya: aj&tam - hope you've got a healthy home!

the one thing i can't figure out/seen any news info/reports on . . . is where the heck was maria's car until it was discovered in january :shrug:? maybe in cesar's garage?

AJandTam

03-06-2008, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by henry
:seeya: aj&tam - hope you've got a healthy home!

the one thing i can't figure out/seen any news info/reports on . . . is where the heck was maria's car until it was discovered in january :shrug:? maybe in cesar's garage? [/*]

So far, so good henry thank you. I had a little fun w/lysol and bleach. Hopefully, I killed it all. Yucky yucky stuff. Now if we can just keep the temperatures from bouncing all over the place here. It's in the upper 70's on sunday, then back down to snowing on tues. Strange if you ask me.

I don't know w/all that junk they had in the garage if they could have parked the car there the whole time. Good question though, since it took so long for the LE to find the car.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 09:43 AM

Mornin' all :seeya:

I seem to have caught the bug that's been here on the board.

Hopefully, it will just be a bad cold.

caejde

03-06-2008, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by henry
:seeya: aj&tam - hope you've got a healthy home!

the one thing i can't figure out/seen any news info/reports on . . . is where the heck was maria's car until it was discovered in january :shrug:? maybe in cesar's garage? [/*]

There are misreports on her car. One report I read said it was at the bus station since she left it there and the other said that it was only there the week they found it. So, who knows.

I did want to answer your question on the 911 issue. I forgot to yesterday. I know it was answered but I wanted to add a little to it. When I was pregnant and lived in the barracks, I was having serious cramping. I went to the duty and all I wanted was to get to my NCO's room so I could go to the hospital-as I didn't have a car. He called 911-base MP's, base fire truck shows up and they hook me up to oxygen and start asking me questions. The doctor for my unit also so shows up. But since there were no base ambulances available, a civilian ambulance showed up to take me to the hospital. And because I was pregnant and in that much pain, they sent me to a civilian hospital because it was much closer.

caejde

03-06-2008, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by bkwits
Mornin' all :seeya:

I seem to have caught the bug that's been here on the board.

Hopefully, it will just be a bad cold. [/*]

It's yucky stuff! Thankfully, me or the kids didn't get it. Just my husband but we all had to be treated since we didn't get flu shots. But even those with the flu shots are getting this particular strand going around. Feel better!

bkwits

03-06-2008, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by caejde

It's yucky stuff! Thankfully, me or the kids didn't get it. Just my husband but we all had to be treated since we didn't get flu shots. But even those with the flu shots are getting this particular strand going around. Feel better! [/*]

Thanks, I had the flu shot so maybe it won't be so bad.

caejde

03-06-2008, 10:16 AM

Couple of Q's if you dont mind tia

How long is Boot Camp?

Do you go straight to Camp when joining?

Are there guidelines that CO's go by to promote/evaluate? Was just trying to get some idea of how often Promotions and/or Reviews might be. I am sure there are many variables to consider and certianly understand if You decline moo

Wanted to bring a post over from dave sargent. I just wanted to add a little more. I know nelkirk answered a good bit but just wanted to provide some more.

Bootcamp is 13 weeks long. However, if you do not pass the initial strength test after arriving, you can be sent to a holding platoon. And there, you are working out pretty much throughout the day to build yourself up. After certain amount of time, you are then trying to pass the initial strength test again. If you pass, you are then put with the next cycle. But, sometimes even if you do fail, the drill instructors will decide to keep you instead of sending you to the holding platoon. Also, anytime that you get injured, you can be sent to a holding platoon. And you have to get picked up by the next cycle. This doesn't go for all injuries though.

You do not have to go straight to bootcamp upon joining. You can be put in DEP-Delayed Entry Program-until you are ready. For instance, I enlisted in August 1999 but I didn't go to bootcamp until January 2000. I had a couple of reasons. One, I wasn't doing too well on my running and couldn't pass the initial strength test and I didnt' want to be away from my family on the holidays. But there are others who enlist and go straight to bootcamp.

And there are guidelines for promotions. When you come out of bootcamp you are a Private (E-1). Some can come out of bootcamp as a Private First Class (E-2) based on a few things. If you were an Eagle Scout that gives you that promotion, if you were ever in another branch of service, several things. But if you are E-1 coming out of bootcamp, you will usually pick up E-2 withing 6 months. They look at Time in Grade, Time in Service as well as your SRB for E-1 through E-3. When it's time to pick up E-4, you have to meet the cutting score and this is based on PT, rifle, completed MCI's, etc...And then it goes that way for E-5 as well. Also, you can go on meritorious boards for E-2 through E-5. I went up for a meritorious Lance Corporal (E-3) board. This is at company level, if you win you go to unit level. There's several things involved. If you win the unit level board, then you are meritoriously promoted.

Sorry for such a long post, just wanted to add a little more info.

AJandTam

03-06-2008, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by bkwits
Mornin' all :seeya:

I seem to have caught the bug that's been here on the board.

Hopefully, it will just be a bad cold. [/*]

Oh no, I hope it wasn't cause of me, I tried to keep my germies away.

:rose: Feel better soon Bk.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 10:35 AM

Thanks all,

I hope and pray I'll be better by Easter. My kids and grandkids are coming in from CA. :)

caejde

03-06-2008, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean
Is it basicly the same in all branches? My sons in the army, is it sort of the same when he comes out of boot camp? [/*]

I don't know about Army. I know their bootcamp is much shorter than 13 weeks. And I know their schools are different and such. As for promotions, I dont' know. I know their E-4 is different than the Marine Corps E-4. In the Marines, E-4 is considered an NCO but not in the Army. But I would imagine they look at Time in Grade/Time in Service.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

ask doc about Tamiflu. [/*]

Thanks for all wishes and tips. :seeya:

caejde

03-06-2008, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

ask doc about Tamiflu. [/*]

Yes, that's what we all were on. Me and the kids took ours for 10 days...but it was so we wouldn't get it. But afterwards, we all got runny noses and coughs. So did my husband.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 10:50 AM

Sheriff Ed said there was contact between Maria and Cesar on 12/14 before she was at Laureans' house. I don't know what he meant, but I would guess a phone call. Does anyone else remember this?

caejde

03-06-2008, 10:50 AM

Ok, just thought I should add about the SOI stuff that nelkirk posted about.

SOI which is School of Infantry. If you are a guy and your MOS is a grunt then SOI is your MOS school and I think it's a couple months long...not quite sure on the time. However, if you are a guy or girl and your MOS is not infantry-which it can't be for girls anyway-then you go to MCT which is Marine Combat Training. And it's only a couple weeks long. Still part of SOI but it's not SOI--if that makes any sense. You learn basic infantry stuff at MCT. At the end of MCT, you find out what your MOS is and after graduation, you are then sent to your MOS school. Depending on MOS, you can be at school for a couple weeks to a couple months to several months and for some up to a year.

Also, after graduating from bootcamp, you have 10 days leave before you report to MCT/SOI. After MCT/SOI and MOS school, you get orders to your duty station. And you are given a certain amount of leave days. While I was on leave after that, my recruiter got me on recruiter's assistance. So basically I was working at the recruiter's office and I got that for 30 days and then I reported to my duty station.

caejde

03-06-2008, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

My sons bootcamp is Januray to April 26. He left beginning of Jan- something like the 7th. Hes so proud just to be a private!!!!
Hes qualified in his sniper and got an award of some kind and some other thing- oh grenade throwing- he got an award for that too. Hes all about the guns. I got his army boot camp pic- so proud. Am I allowed to show it here? [/*]

So is he going infantry? Is he done with bootcamp? Army bootcamp is 10 weeks.

My husband is really into guns to...he was infantry in the Marines. And then he went to school for gunsmithing.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by caejde
Ok, just thought I should add about the SOI stuff that nelkirk posted about.

SOI which is School of Infantry. If you are a guy and your MOS is a grunt then SOI is your MOS school and I think it's a couple months long...not quite sure on the time. However, if you are a guy or girl and your MOS is not infantry-which it can't be for girls anyway-then you go to MCT which is Marine Combat Training. And it's only a couple weeks long. Still part of SOI but it's not SOI--if that makes any sense. You learn basic infantry stuff at MCT. At the end of MCT, you find out what your MOS is and after graduation, you are then sent to your MOS school. Depending on MOS, you can be at school for a couple weeks to a couple months to several months and for some up to a year.

Also, after graduating from bootcamp, you have 10 days leave before you report to MCT/SOI. After MCT/SOI and MOS school, you get orders to your duty station. And you are given a certain amount of leave days. While I was on leave after that, my recruiter got me on recruiter's assistance. So basically I was working at the recruiter's office and I got that for 30 days and then I reported to my duty station. [/*]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a grunt? I keep seeing that on the Leatherneck forum.

caejde

03-06-2008, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by bkwits
Sheriff Ed said there was contact between Maria and Cesar on 12/14 before she was at Laureans' house. I don't know what he meant, but I would guess a phone call. Does anyone else remember this? [/*]

Vaguely. And if it was a phone call, I wonder who called who?

caejde

03-06-2008, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by bkwits

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a grunt? I keep seeing that on the Leatherneck forum. [/*]

Oops, sorry. A grunt is someone with an infantry MOS.

caejde

03-06-2008, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

Yes he is infantry.:mad: His boot camp was over a few weeks ago I think, then he does specialized training which is what he is doing now. Hes thriving and loves it to death. I'm freaking cos I dfon't want him anywhere near Iraq, of course.

My hubby is into the guns obsessively, my son is into them too but am sure once he comes home they will have ALOT more "gun talk" between them. [/*]

Sounds like my hubby. He joined and asked to be infantry. And he was with a mortar platoon in Iraq and I told you about his experience. He'll be ok.

henry

03-06-2008, 11:11 AM

:patriot: thanks caedje for all your answers/explanations . . . my word document/reference is filling up fast with your posts!

a more specific ? on 911 . . . what would happen if a person on a military base used their personal cell phone & dialed 911? would the 911 operator notify the base military police once they realized that individual was on base? tia

caejde

03-06-2008, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by henry
:patriot: thanks caedje for all your answers/explanations . . . my word document/reference is filling up fast with your posts!

a more specific ? on 911 . . . what would happen if a person on a military base used their personal cell phone & dialed 911? would the 911 operator notify the base military police once they realized that individual was on base? tia [/*]

Hmm, good question. And I don't know. I would think they would transfer the call to the base but I could be wrong.

caejde

03-06-2008, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

More importantly, what number was Maria calling from or being called to? Because if it was her cell, then we know SHE didn't accidently lose it, it was tossed after the fact. JMO> [/*]

Another very good question. And was it before or after she called her mom at the 2:30 pm call.

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 11:18 AM

We don't know for a fact that the last call made on Maria's cell phone was the 12/14 2:30 p.m. call to her mother.

I also don't think we know for a fact HOW the phone ended up where it did or when it ended up there.

:shrug:

caejde

03-06-2008, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
We don't know for a fact that the last call made on Maria's cell phone was the 12/14 2:30 p.m. call to her mother.

I also don't think we know for a fact HOW the phone ended up where it did or when it ended up there.

:shrug: [/*]

No, you're right we don't know that the 2:30 call was the last call Maria made. She could have made more than that. And we dont' know how the phone got where it did. We were just talking about if contact was made */t her and Laurean who initiated. And if her phone was already on the side of the road-which it could have been-how did he call her or how did she call him.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by caejde

Vaguely. And if it was a phone call, I wonder who called who? [/*]

IIRC Sheriff Brown said that Maria initiated contact.

He also said in an earlier pc that Maria and Cesar had an ongoing relationship which started on 12/14 (that was before they determined that she died on that day).

Where is Lynn Gweeny when I need her?

IMO

bkwits

03-06-2008, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by caejde

No, you're right we don't know that the 2:30 call was the last call Maria made. She could have made more than that. And we dont' know how the phone got where it did. We were just talking about if contact was made */t her and Laurean who initiated. And if her phone was already on the side of the road-which it could have been-how did he call her or how did she call him. [/*]

I have stated before that I absolutely think that the cell phone was discarded after maria's death.
But the call could have been made prior to Maria's convo with her mom. JMO

caejde

03-06-2008, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by bkwits

I have stated before that I absolutely think that the cell phone was discarded after maria's death.
But the call could have been made prior to Maria's convo with her mom. JMO [/*]

I can see that. But I can also see being so mad throwing the phone out too. But not so much as someone else putting it there. And I wonder if she did call him, when did she do it. In his letter, he stated that she came to his house the first time and demanded money. It was sometime after noon when she was released from work. But was it before the 2:30 conversation or was it after? Was it before she went to the ATM or was it after she got her bus ticket? There's alot of questions I have!

henry

03-06-2008, 11:51 AM

crap . . . the missing link is if anyone was with her at the 12/14 atm withdrawal . . . that would help tons!!!!

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by caejde

I can see that. But I can also see being so mad throwing the phone out too. But not so much as someone else putting it there. And I wonder if she did call him, when did she do it. In his letter, he stated that she came to his house the first time and demanded money. It was sometime after noon when she was released from work. But was it before the 2:30 conversation or was it after? Was it before she went to the ATM or was it after she got her bus ticket? There's alot of questions I have! [/*]

Those are good questions caejde. Given we don't really know her itinerary for that day from start to finish, anything is possible.

I still say there is truth woven with lies, but that is JMO.

It would not shock me to find out Maria threw the phone if she was really feeling trapped and angry. I go with the first reports from her mom's account of the call to the descriptions that were used. They all came before people started feeling bad about what really happened to Maria and Gabriel.

JMO tho.:patriot:

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Those are good questions caejde. Given we don't really know her itinerary for that day from start to finish, anything is possible.

I still say there is truth woven with lies, but that is JMO.

It would not shock me to find out Maria threw the phone if she was really feeling trapped and angry. I go with the first reports from her mom's account of the call to the descriptions that were used. They all came before people started feeling bad about what really happened to Maria and Gabriel.

JMO tho.:patriot: [/*]

Good Morning Candy!

I have always felt that CAL's notes showed no anger against Maria. Now sure he was trying to cover up the truth about how she had died but I have just never seen it that he was angry with her.

I think also he may have interjected the words "demanded money" for CSLs sake. He sure wasn't going to put down that he willingly gave her money for the bus ticket but I think it highly probable that he was going to do that. He also seems very familiar with Maria's normal demeanor. The thing is he could have written anything in there that was very critical like this woman was trying to destroy his life or blackmail him but he didn't.

So maybe LE now have his own ATM withdrawals for that day and it shows he withdrew money in the same time period that all of this went down and it coincides with the bus ticket amount. Or maybe they have transfers from his account to hers from time to time.

LE made that statement early on and by now they may have evidence that contact was made even before the 14th. I think it all happened because the 14th was payday for both him and Maria and both of their pay scales are low so they wouldn't have much extra money between paydays imo.

imoo

Maka

03-06-2008, 12:09 PM

There's this comment from Cic about them having contact. Hope that helps

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/11/missing.marine/index.html

"The information developed over the last 24 hours leads us to believe that she still had some kind of contact" with him, said Paul Ciccarelli, agent in charge of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service at Camp Lejeune.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by henry
crap . . . the missing link is if anyone was with her at the 12/14 atm withdrawal . . . that would help tons!!!! [/*]

Yes, I still think the fearful way she was looking around gives some clue. IMO

nuttintodo

03-06-2008, 12:16 PM

I wish we knew what information all the cell phone records contain. That sure would answer a lot of questions about who initated contact with whom and on what date.

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
I wish we knew what information all the cell phone records contain. That sure would answer a lot of questions about who imitated contact with whom and on what date. [/*]

Morning Nuttin!

How far can LE go back to retrieve the cell phone records? Can they go all the way back to May 07? I know they have done that before in other cases.

imoo:seeya:

caejde

03-06-2008, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

Thanks Maka. I didn't see your post. How the MC could feel there was a personal relationship between them from a murderer's note amazes me.
That was the only reason given for a relationship between them.

JMO [/*]

The only that we know of anyway. We don't know what else transpired in those 24 hours. JMO though.

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

Thanks Maka. I didn't see your post. How the MC could feel there was a personal relationship between them from a murderer's note amazes me.
That was the only reason given for a relationship between them.

JMO [/*]

How do you know it was from CALs note? They were in possession of the note since the morning of the 11th and when he said that it was on the 15th. That is much longer than 24 hours.

Imo it has nothing to do with his note.

imoo

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

How do you know it was from CALs note? They were in possession of the note since the morning of the 11th and when he said that it was on the 15th. That is much longer than 24 hours.

Imo it has nothing to do with his note.

imoo [/*]

The 11th was also the day they interviewed Durham.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Good Morning Candy!

I have always felt that CAL's notes showed no anger against Maria. Now sure he was trying to cover up the truth about how she had died but I have just never seen it that he was angry with her.

I think also he may have interjected the words "demanded money" for CSLs sake. He sure wasn't going to put down that he willingly gave her money for the bus ticket but I think it highly probable that he was going to do that. He also seems very familiar with Maria's normal demeanor. The thing is he could have written anything in there that was very critical like this woman was trying to destroy his life or blackmail him but he didn't.

So maybe LE now have his own ATM withdrawals for that day and it shows he withdrew money in the same time period that all of this went down and it coincides with the bus ticket amount. Or maybe they have transfers from his account to hers from time to time.

LE made that statement early on and by now they may have evidence that contact was made even before the 14th. I think it all happened because the 14th was payday for both him and Maria and both of their pay scales are low so they wouldn't have much extra money between paydays imo.

imoo [/*]

I'd say that's possible and will again point to the elephant in the middle of the room. I believe Maria did make contact with Cesar prior to going to his home and IF SHE DID and WENT TO HIS HOME, again, she was exhibiting signs of a woman who had nothing to fear.

IF I was afraid of a man I accused of rape, you would be more than hard pressed to catch me breaking a MPO order and showing up at this house, no matter what the circumstance.

JMO. :shrug:

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

Yes, I still think the fearful way she was looking around gives some clue. IMO [/*]

I'm sure many people have fearful looks when they are at ATM's. JMO tho.

I know I get nervous when I am taking money out and alone.

JMO again.:shrug:

nuttintodo

03-06-2008, 12:30 PM

For some reason I just don't think CAL bought his bus ticket prior to 1/10/08-1/11/08. Now I could be wrong but I just don't think he was thinking that far in advance. But I agree the ATM withdrawals and the WU transfers will tell a lot.

Remember he wasn't even developed as a POI until the the week of 1/7/08 so he probably was confident in thinking no one would suspect him since Maria was only being classified as being UA and he had never been asked about her by his unit and NCIS (that we are aware of at this point).

All that started to crumble during the week of 1/7/08, when he had been asked to come in for an interview with the investigators at OCSD and he kept changing the times, etc. That's when I think he really began to feel the noose tightening and hatched his plan of escape.

I am still amazed at how he was able to completely slip past everyone and make it into Mexico (if that's where he is) so quickly. And I still say that CSL gave him a good headstart prior to her coming forth with his 'notes'.

JMO

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 12:31 PM

I think chance might have been onto something with reference to the upcoming family visit. The idea that Mary and Peter would be going to bring the adoption idea to closure makes perfect sense IMO.

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

You are right- interesting he didn't disparage her in writing, but someone killed her and it was either him or he holds some complicity. Wonder if he genuinely didn't want to write anything bad or if he was holding himself back. I am beginning to think CSL was the catalyst for Cesars anger. Well, not just beginning to think that, I have thought it for quite some time. Just MO [/*]

It has always struck me odd. He had full opportunity to make sure his POV about all of this situation was told in his note.

Oh I think he was under extreme pressure for months from his wifey poo.

They talked about it every two months? Right, sure they did.:biggrin:

imoo

Lynn Gweeny

03-06-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

IIRC Sheriff Brown said that Maria initiated contact.

He also said in an earlier pc that Maria and Cesar had an ongoing relationship which started on 12/14 (that was before they determined that she died on that day).

Where is Lynn Gweeny when I need her?

IMO [/*]

QUESTION: Was he considered a danger to her?

CICCARELLI: No, he was not. And again, as I stated, the information developed this morning, there's indications that they carried on a, I would say, a some type of friendly relationship after she had reported this incident.

(SNIP)

CICCARELLI: Again, this investigation is still ongoing. All I could state again, it's the information that was developed over the last 24 hours that leads us to believe that they still made some type of contact after she had reported the incident.

(SNIP)

BROWN: … So this thing has gone this way, it's gone this way, but I believe I can say this -- from what we understand right now, the relationship that brought them together has happened since her disappearance. Since the 14th. Let me say this -- their relationship seems to have gotten together since the 14th.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

I'm sure many people have fearful looks when they are at ATM's. JMO tho.

I know I get nervous when I am taking money out and alone.

JMO again.:shrug: [/*]

Me too and I am always glancing around.

I didn't see her fearful........just looking around like so many do especially women alone at an ATM machine.

imoo

nuttintodo

03-06-2008, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Morning Nuttin!

How far can LE go back to retrieve the cell phone records? Can they go all the way back to May 07? I know they have done that before in other cases.

imoo:seeya: [/*]

Most likely it depends on the wording in the SW. You know in the Laurean's SW for their cell phone records, it only covered a specific timeframe.

I'm sure they could back as far as needed and I hope they have!

I'm going to go look at the SW for Maria's phone and see what dates they have listed.

JMO :seeya:

caejde

03-06-2008, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

Sure. Sitting on the sofa watching a rented movie and eating popcorn- "So hows that thing with Maria going? We haven't discussed it in MONTHS!!" Sure. OK. [/*]

I find that odd too. Especially since we've heard that she was the jealous type. I wonder what she was thinking-if she thought it was rape or actually thought he cheated or what. If that were my husband and he was accused of rape, of course I want to trust him but would wonder why someone would bring allegations of that caliber up.

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 12:43 PM

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Most likely it depends on the wording in the SW. You know in the Laurean's SW for their cell phone records, it only covered a specific time frame.

I'm sure they could back as far as needed and I hope they have!

I'm going to go look at the SW for Maria's phone and see what dates they have listed.

JMO :seeya: [/*]

Yes, I know they can go back and get another SW for another time period. All they have to do is convince the Judge it is needed and relevant.

imoo

nuttintodo

03-06-2008, 12:50 PM

Someone earlier questioned when was a description asked about Maria's car. In looking at the SW/Affidavit dated 1/7/08 it clearly states that on 12/19/07 at 13:10 OCSD did have a description of her car and I believe (if I'm reading correctly) that Mary supplied this information to OCSD.

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/1200092882-1200068360lauterbachinvestigationdocumnetsrevised. pdf page 5

I'm still looking for the dates in regards to Maria's cell phone.

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
For some reason I just don't think CAL bought his bus ticket prior to 1/10/08-1/11/08. Now I could be wrong but I just don't think he was thinking that far in advance. But I agree the ATM withdrawals and the WU transfers will tell a lot.

Remember he wasn't even developed as a POI until the the week of 1/7/08 so he probably was confident in thinking no one would suspect him since Maria was only being classified as being UA and he had never been asked about her by his unit and NCIS (that we are aware of at this point).

All that started to crumble during the week of 1/7/08, when he had been asked to come in for an interview with the investigators at OCSD and he kept changing the times, etc. That's when I think he really began to feel the noose tightening and hatched his plan of escape.

I am still amazed at how he was able to completely slip past everyone and make it into Mexico (if that's where he is) so quickly. And I still say that CSL gave him a good headstart prior to her coming forth with his 'notes'.

JMO [/*]

Well, you know I think he bought an identical ticket to Maria's. No proof, but just my opinion.

Greyhound has changed their schedules in the past few days because as of last week (or the week before), they had a bus leaving Raleigh at 4:45 a.m. bound for El Paso (with a stop in Houston). That got me to thinking....(dangerous, I know)....that he could have gotten onto that 4:45 a.m. bus (with no attendant except for the driver) using the ticket he purchased earlier.

That does two things: It puts him "gone around 4:30" just like Christina says (only the lie of omission is that he wasn't gone from their house at 4:30, he was just gone by then), plus it gives credence to the "describing the motel where he was staying". If he had left the morning of the 11th, there's no need for a motel.

There is, however, if he left the night before.

There are holes in that theory of course. When did he drive to Durham and drop off the bank card and when did he park the truck at the Microtel?

nuttintodo

03-06-2008, 12:55 PM

As far as I can tell, a SW was obtained for her cell phone on 1/7/08 but the part where it shows the dates included is not there so hopefully OCSD has requested her complete records from T-Mobile.

http://www.amw.com/pdf/lauterbachPDF.pdf

JMO

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

I'd say that's possible and will again point to the elephant in the middle of the room. I believe Maria did make contact with Cesar prior to going to his home and IF SHE DID and WENT TO HIS HOME, again, she was exhibiting signs of a woman who had nothing to fear.

IF I was afraid of a man I accused of rape, you would be more than hard pressed to catch me breaking a MPO order and showing up at this house, no matter what the circumstance.

JMO. :shrug: [/*]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. She would never ever have gone to this man's own home with him there alone if she feared him.

Now what happened after she came back is still shrouded in mystery as what could have erupted into a murderous rage. If he had planned to kill her why wouldn't he just do that then before he gave her money and went with her to buy the bus ticket? I actually think they rode in separate vehicles and he stopped by the ATM machine and gave her the money and she went by herself to get the ticket and he went back home and didn't know until she came back that she couldn't leave until the next day.

But it shows what she told the Corps is the true and she did not fear Laurean. Of course I find it very understandable that she would tell her family that she did for I don't think they knew the full story about this relationship.

imoo

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Most likely it depends on the wording in the SW. You know in the Laurean's SW for their cell phone records, it only covered a specific timeframe.

I'm sure they could back as far as needed and I hope they have!

I'm going to go look at the SW for Maria's phone and see what dates they have listed.

JMO :seeya: [/*]

Hey, that's another question I have. Was another SW issued for the Laurean's (the mother, sister, Christina, and Cesar) for AFTER 1/12? IIRC, 1/12 is the date the first time frame ended.

:shrug:

bkwits

03-06-2008, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

You are right- interesting he didn't disparage her in writing, but someone killed her and it was either him or he holds some complicity. Wonder if he genuinely didn't want to write anything bad or if he was holding himself back. I am beginning to think CSL was the catalyst for Cesars anger. Well, not just beginning to think that, I have thought it for quite some time. Just MO [/*]

We don't know what all was in his notes. But, the notes were written to make himself less culpable IMO.

And I think that he said she showed up at his house and demanded money was disparaging. He was so accommodating that he "helped" her buy a bus ticket. But we know that she had withdrawn a substanial sum from the ATM and that later he took that money and tried to withdraw more. IMO

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

Thanks Lynn. They received the note on the 11th and it is obvious CICCARELLI is going by the killer's note:

"CICCARELLI: No, he was not. And again, as I stated, the information developed this morning, there's indications that they carried on a, I would say, a some type of friendly relationship after she had reported this incident.[/i] "

Just amazing.

JMO [/*]

I don't think it's that obvious at all. IIRC, the 11th was also the day Durham was back (the night before) and was being interviewed.

Durham could have been the one that provided that information.

Or any other witness/friend/co-worker that they had interviewed the day before.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 01:02 PM

nuttintodo

03-06-2008, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Well, you know I think he bought an identical ticket to Maria's. No proof, but just my opinion.

Greyhound has changed their schedules in the past few days because as of last week (or the week before), they had a bus leaving Raleigh at 4:45 a.m. bound for El Paso (with a stop in Houston). That got me to thinking....(dangerous, I know)....that he could have gotten onto that 4:45 a.m. bus (with no attendant except for the driver) using the ticket he purchased earlier.

That does two things: It puts him "gone around 4:30" just like Christina says (only the lie of omission is that he wasn't gone from their house at 4:30, he was just gone by then), plus it gives credence to the "describing the motel where he was staying". If he had left the morning of the 11th, there's no need for a motel.

There is, however, if he left the night before.

There are holes in that theory of course. When did he drive to Durham and drop off the bank card and when did he park the truck at the Microtel? [/*]

Cryme, that's part of my thinking too, he could have left the night before (but that blows Wanda out of the water ;) ). Why else would he mention the motel? Maybe when he boarded the transit bus from the Microtel and went to Durham, he tried to use the card again (remember the ATM was down), saw he couldn't use it and just chucked it. But I don't understand why he threw it on the ground, why didn't he put it in a trash can?

As to the ticket, LLE knows when he bought the ticket, etc., but they aren't saying, UGH!

JMO

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

We don't know what all was in his notes. But, the notes were written to make himself less culpable IMO.

And I think that he said she showed up at his house and demanded money was disparaging. He was so accommodating that he "helped" her buy a bus ticket. But we know that she had withdrawn a substantial sum from the ATM and that later he took that money and tried to withdraw more. IMO [/*]

I would say she withdrew all the money she had available. With a bus ticket costing $184.00 it would leave very little money to survive on.

He could have made the notes much more disparaging. He did not.

imoo

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

I don't think it's that obvious at all. IIRC, the 11th was also the day Durham was back (the night before) and was being interviewed.

Durham could have been the one that provided that information.

Or any other witness/friend/co-worker that they had interviewed the day before. [/*]

Me either in fact I think it is obvious it has nothing whatsoever to do with the note. The note was given to the MC and then to OCSD on the morning of the 11th. Ciccarelli said they had learned of this info in the last 24 hours. That means imo they learned it on the Jan 14th. The note was known on the 11th.

imoo

gaelicpeas

03-06-2008, 01:15 PM

Lynn posted this timeline/map yesterday, and I noticed that it said ML was at home for the 2:30 phone call with her mom:

"1. Dec 14 - Idlebrook: Lauterbach residence where her mother last spoke with her by phone."

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/1200146269-lauterbacktimelinemap.jpg

I obviously can't vouch for the accuracy of this, but I had never noticed it said she was at home. If she was at home, to me that lessens the possibility that she tossed the phone out the window in frustration while driving following her call with her mom.

And makes it more likely, IMO, that someone else tossed that phone.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

And he was right. They had contact the day she died.

As for assuming from the killer's note they had a relationship since the rape allegations is unbelievable.

JMO [/*]

No they had contact before she was at his house. I don't believe they had a relationship after the rape either, but I also don't believe she showed up at his house on her own, unexpectedly. JMO

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

No they had contact before she was at his house. I don't believe they had a relationship after the rape either, but I also don't believe she showed up at his house on her own, unexpectedly. JMO [/*]

I believe LE has what they need to feel comfortable contact was made that day prior to going to the house and am just waiting for it to be released if it hasn't already.

I contend they would have found a way to put a kidnapping charge out there as well, but they did not.

That leaves me believing they know the contact was made before.

JMO tho.:shrug:

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

And he was right. They had contact the day she died. The only contact since the rape allegations. imo

As for assuming from the killer's note they had a relationship since the rape allegations is unbelievable.

JMO [/*]

But aren't you the one that posted that the information they had that indicated a friendly relationship since "the incident" was contained in Christina's "notes from Cesar"?

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

I think they did keep a civil relationship the whole time. Of course JMO. [/*]

ITA

gaelicpeas

03-06-2008, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

Could she have had her cell phone with her when she went to CL's house?

I believe if that is so, CL tossed that phone close to the base on the road
to make police or the MC think she was alive after the 14th and was just missing.

CL knew it would be found there sooner or later.

JMO [/*]

To me, what you are suggesting is a logical and most likely scenario.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

I think they did keep a civil relationship the whole time. Of course JMO. [/*]

It appears Nancy Grace agrees with you AnnieBean. I think it's becoming more and more clear that there was a relationship IMO.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GRACE: Out to Colonel Robin Johnson, retired Marine Corps colonel.

Colonel, I`m stunned. I mean the Marines have taken several black eyes just recently. Number one, you`ve got Cesar Lauren on the run in Mexico after allegedly killing his pregnant lover and her unborn child. Now this.

What alternative do they have in military justice for something like this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0803/05/ng.01.html

:patriot:

gaelicpeas

03-06-2008, 01:36 PM

That quote from Ciccarelli about info developed this morning/last 24 hours is from a 1-11 transcript, not 1-15.

I think it could very well be possible that the "some type of contact" refers to what CL said in his note about ML showing up at his house.

I doubt at that time (1-11 PC) that they had had enough time to interview any witnesses (other than Durham and CSL). At that moment, they were trying to find where ML was buried. Also, the indictment for CL was very rushed as the Mexican authorities could not search for/arrest CL without an indictment , so I think the DA went with the obvious charges just to get it done as quickly as possible.

JMO

bkwits

03-06-2008, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

Could she have had her cell phone with her when she went to CL's house?

I believe if that is so, CL tossed that phone close to the base on the road
to make police or the MC think she was alive after the 14th and was just missing.

CL knew it would be found there sooner or later.

JMO [/*]

I agree that the phone was tossed by CL, or possibly someone else, not Maria. IMO

bkwits

03-06-2008, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
That quote from Ciccarelli about info developed this morning/last 24 hours is from a 1-11 transcript, not 1-15.

I think it could very well be possible that the "some type of contact" refers to what CL said in his note about ML showing up at his house.

I doubt at that time (1-11 PC) that they had had enough time to interview any witnesses (other than Durham and CSL). At that moment, they were trying to find where ML was buried. Also, the indictment for CL was very rushed as the Mexican authorities could not search for/arrest CL without an indictment , so I think the DA went with the obvious charges just to get it done as quickly as possible.

I am very sure that LE is standing by the statement that contact was made on the 14th prior to Maria being at CL's house.
JMO [/*]

bkwits

03-06-2008, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

Yes I agree that opart is disparaging and takes **lls, as he did later steal from her and she prob had more cash than he did anyway.
What I mean is I assume there were no writings such as this Bee got me in this situation, she a lying bee, blah blah blah and I can see CSL learning over him encouraging such writing, But we don;t know that he wrote anything like that at all since all the notes have not been released,,, [/*]

Well, I think the notes were written for LE. I just don't think he is that dumb to put stuff like that in the notes. He may have said those things to Ctina, though.

[check message length]

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by dave sargent
Hiya CryMe

Catching up== Last nights thread regard the Vehicle Info. MOO It prolly was LE request to compare to info they already had. Double checking what MC had vs what they had in report. I mean its not like OCSD needed MC to run a DMV check MOO

I have a Q for you fine MC members. In the PC, it says

It might just be semantics. But my Q is this: Does the MPO prevent Maria from contacting CL tia?

ETA: caedje, THANKS for that great info on Marine entry!!! Helped me tons. CNN reported that she entered 6/5/06. MC PC said she entered July 2006. [/*]

Dave, it may not be semantics. I don't know if you can argue that point or not. In a civillian restraining order they seem to dictate no contact between the parties period from what I've seen. I am trying to remember the difference between ex-parte and TRO. Do you know off the tip of your fingertips?

I would think in a case like this neither party should be contacting the other, but again, that is not based on factual info.

JMO:patriot:

IvySterling

03-06-2008, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

SB said DD had no information they needed.

JMO [/*]
He personally may not have, but his laptop may have!

Mary had said Maria had sent her father an email that morning (12-14) and I'm guessing Maria used DD's laptop. DD's laptop may have contained other informative info. we aren't privy to.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

He personally may not have, but his laptop may have!

Mary had said Maria had sent her father an email that morning (12-14) and I'm guessing Maria used DD's laptop. DD's laptop may have contained other informative info. we aren't privy to. [/*]

You betcha Ivy and I believe you are spot on in your take with reference to DD vs his laptop or home PC. JMO.:cool:

bkwits

03-06-2008, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

He personally may not have, but his laptop may have!

Mary had said Maria had sent her father an email that morning (12-14) and I'm guessing Maria used DD's laptop. DD's laptop may have contained other informative info. we aren't privy to. [/*]

Maria was at work until noon. Couldn't she have sent the email from there?

IvySterling

03-06-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

Maria was at work until noon. Couldn't she have sent the email from there? [/*]
Sure, she could have bkwits.

I would think where ever she had access to the Internet, those records are being searched. I also think they've searched CAL's and CSL's communications also.

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Forgot to add that although she was not under that specific order, it would jeapordize her allegations to attempt to contact him, let alone carry on a relationship with her alleged rapist. [/*]

Could that have already been part of what they were finding out during the investigation?

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

No they had contact before she was at his house. I don't believe they had a relationship after the rape either, but I also don't believe she showed up at his house on her own, unexpectedly. JMO [/*]

You are right Bkwits imo.

SB was not divulging any other information what he may have about other contact times. He was specifically stating that they had learned contact was made the day of the 14th.

I think it will be a call from Maria to Laurean. I think the cell phone and computer evidence is going to be very important in this case. Plus any banking transactions since May 07.

And Ciccarelli specifically stated in the 15th PC they had received information in the last 24 hours that friendly contact after the rape allegation incident was made and they are investigating it and I think they have and SB too. Imo Ciccarelli would not have given that statement such wide latitude and time period. He clearly says after the "incident" was made. He would simply have reiterated what SB said and that it had come to their attention that contact was made between the two on the 14th.

imoo

Regina.Lampert

03-06-2008, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

Thanks Lynn. They received the note on the 11th and it is obvious CICCARELLI is going by the killer's note:

"CICCARELLI: No, he was not. And again, as I stated, the information developed this morning, there's indications that they carried on a, I would say, a some type of friendly relationship after she had reported this incident.[/i] "

Just amazing. Can anyone believe that?
The only information they continued a personal relationship after Maria reported rape allegations comes from a killer's note.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MC CYA.

JMO [/*]

It's amazing what people believe sometimes, based on absolutely no facts at all. Just wait if this ever gets to a courtroom, we'll see people falling all over themselves, believing every lie that spews forth from laurean's mouth: She slit her own throat, I never raped her, she was a liar and a flake....blah, blah, blah......they'll swallow it hook, line and sinker. IMO

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

SB said DD had no information they needed.

JMO [/*]

As to Maria's whereabouts, right, he didn't have that information.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

Sure, she could have bkwits.

I would think where ever she had access to the Internet, those records are being searched. I also think they've searched CAL's and CSL's communications also. [/*]

Yes, I'm trying to stay awake until my furniture delivery comes. S'posed to be between 1 and 3 pm, prob will be 3:30.

Anyone -- is Tamiflu OTC or prescription?

caejde

03-06-2008, 03:26 PM

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Forgot to add that although she was not under that specific order, it would jeopardize her allegations to attempt to contact him, let alone carry on a relationship with her alleged rapist. [/*]

I don't think it would bode well for Maria at all if she had an MPO and was the one who pierced that "wall of protection."

But imo Maria wasn't thinking about Corps rules anymore and was going to leave all the rules and other stresses behind.

JMOO

caejde

03-06-2008, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

As to Maria's whereabouts, right, he didn't have that information. [/*]

Exactly. And when the sheriff was giving the interview, detectives were still talking to Durham. They have never said what all he said...but I think he could have given valuable information.

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

Yes, I'm trying to stay awake until my furniture delivery comes. S'posed to be between 1 and 3 pm, prob will be 3:30.

Anyone -- is Tamiflu OTC or prescription? [/*]

Tamiflu is by prescription. But from what I understand, you have to start taking it pretty quick in order for it to have the desired effect.

Otherwise, chicken soup, liquids.....(and some brandy wouldn't hurt :D )

Hope you start feeling better soon!

caejde

03-06-2008, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Tamiflu is by prescription. But from what I understand, you have to start taking it pretty quick in order for it to have the desired effect.

Otherwise, chicken soup, liquids.....(and some brandy wouldn't hurt :D )

Hope you start feeling better soon! [/*]

I think it's within the first 2 or 3 days of getting symptoms.

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by caejde

I think it's within the first 2 or 3 days of getting symptoms. [/*]

I've never taken it myself.

I prefer brandy.

:D

bkwits

03-06-2008, 03:38 PM

Regina.Lampert

03-06-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I don't think it would bode well for Maria at all if she had an MPO and was the one who pierced that "wall of protection."

But imo Maria wasn't thinking about Corps rules anymore and was going to leave all the rules and other stresses behind.

JMOO [/*]
Maria has been bludgeoned to death, set on fire and thrown in a pit and buried. What else do you think can be done to her?

bkwits

03-06-2008, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by caejde

Prescription...and costly. Even with insurance we had to pay $50. And for the whole family it was $200. [/*]

Wow, I am still hoping it is just a bad cold as I don't have the stomach symptoms yet. :mad:

caejde

03-06-2008, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

I've never taken it myself.

I prefer brandy.

:D [/*]

I took it but didn't have the flu...just to prevent us from getting it.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

Maria has been bludgeoned to death, set on fire and thrown in a pit and buried. What else do you think can be done to her? [/*]

Well said.

Regina.Lampert

03-06-2008, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Jas.S

Me, too, AB.

And that the marines had plenty of evidence of that. [/*]

I must have missed that evidence, could you list it please? Thanks.

caejde

03-06-2008, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

Maria has been bludgeoned to death, set on fire and thrown in a pit and buried. What else do you think can be done to her? [/*]

Did you read the other posts? It was asked what if Maria initiated contact at any time. Cesar was the one that had the MPO and he was ordered not to make contact/communication in any way with her. And it was answered that if Maria initiated anything, it probably wouldn't have looked good.

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

What evidence?

Except for the known evidence of her death on 12/14 at his house, I see nothing proven.

JMO [/*]

I see nothing proven either, but we're still allowed to have opinions as to what we believe happened prior to the murder and what happened after - heck, we can even have an opinion as to who WE THINK committed the murder.

Jan Powell

03-06-2008, 03:51 PM

I can think of ZERO reasons for any person with alleged sexual assault charges hanging over their head to have any type of on-going relationship with their accuser (that also goes in reverse for the accuser too). There is something about that story that makes no sense to me, baby or no baby. Especially two people that are potentially loosing their careers/lives as they know it.

I think from 05/12 until 12/14 there was no contact between them; not because they hadn't had a previous sexual encounters but because of the charges.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

Maria has been bludgeoned to death, set on fire and thrown in a pit and buried. What else do you think can be done to her? [/*]

I think you fail to understand something here.

IF she chose to go there knowing there was a MPO in place, she who you claim (was so afraid of Cesar) WAS NOT AFRAID of CESAR IMO.

I think the people who are taking it in lock, stock, and barrel are those who refuse to see the truth unfolding in front of their own posts. JMO tho.

I believe we will find out soon that there was indeed contact before Maria went to Cesar's home. JMO.

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell
I can think of ZERO reasons for any person with alleged sexual assault charges hanging over their head to have any type of on-going relationship with their accuser (that also goes in reverse for the accuser too). There is something about that story that makes no sense to me, baby or no baby. Especially two people that are potentially loosing their careers/lives as they know it.

I think from 05/12 until 12/14 there was no contact between them; not because they hadn't had a previous sexual encounters but because of the charges. [/*]

Then why have contact on the 14th?

I agree that it doesn't make sense for Maria to want to have ANYTHING to do with Cesar after she reported a rape, nor him with her.

But apparently they did on the 14th (if not before). What brought that about?

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

I didn't see that post as an opinion. Nothing indicated it being an opinion.

jmo [/*]

Whatever.

:rolleyes:

Regina.Lampert

03-06-2008, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

I think you fail to understand something here.

IF she chose to go there knowing there was a MPO in place, she who you claim (was so afraid of Cesar) WAS NOT AFRAID of CESAR IMO.

I think the people who are taking it in lock, stock, and barrel are those who refuse to see the truth unfolding in front of their own posts. JMO tho.

I believe we will find out soon that there was indeed contact before Maria went to Cesar's home. JMO. [/*]

I am basing my opinion that Maria was afraid of laurean on a few things, not the least of which was her requesting a renewal of the protection order and keeping that order in her car with her. Lisa confirmed that Maria was afraid of him, as did her family.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell
I can think of ZERO reasons for any person with alleged sexual assault charges hanging over their head to have any type of on-going relationship with their accuser (that also goes in reverse for the accuser too). There is something about that story that makes no sense to me, baby or no baby. Especially two people that are potentially loosing their careers/lives as they know it.

I think from 05/12 until 12/14 there was no contact between them; not because they hadn't had a previous sexual encounters but because of the charges. [/*]

I agree that there was probably no personal contact between them (I mean other than running into each other on base, etc) between those dates. IMO

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 04:00 PM

Don't you think LE has a stack of interviews they've conducted with friends, family, and co-workers?

There are people out there that know about the daily lives of ML and CL....imo

IvySterling

03-06-2008, 04:03 PM

Does anyone recall if the ME stated the location of the BF blow to the head? Was it the top, back, side :shrug:

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by Chicky

Of course they do. And the DA also. JMO [/*]

well...all we have heard is that they had an on-going contact of some kind.....we have never heard that they did not contact each other......jmo

however, we have also heard ML was afraid of CL...

bkwits

03-06-2008, 04:05 PM

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling
Does anyone recall if the ME stated the location of the BF blow? Was it the top, back, side :shrug: [/*]

I've never seen the ME personally give an interview in this case...

:D

Seriously though, it was "reportedly" to the back of the head.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

well...all we have heard is that they had an on-going contact of some kind.....we have never heard that they did not contact each other......jmo

however, we have also heard ML was afraid of CL... [/*]

I don't think I heard that they had an ongoing contact, except that Sheriff Ed said they did starting 12/14. That was before LE determined that Maria was killed on 12/14. IMO

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

I don't think I heard that they had an ongoing contact, except that Sheriff Ed said they did starting 12/14. That was before LE determined that Maria was killed on 12/14. IMO [/*]

Oh...I thought the MC said they had a "friendly relationship".....I wonder how they came to that conclusion?

maybe to cover something up?

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

Maybe she called him and asked him to sign papers. Maybe he called her first or threatened her in another way. They were both living off base, so does the MPO apply to them there? IMO [/*]

She would have no reason for him to "sign papers". What kind of papers? Adoption papers? Aren't they usually handled by the hospital and the lawyers? (ETA: Wouldn't they have had to be witnessed and/or notarized?)

If he called and threatened her, she should have called the MP's right then and there and let them handle it. She wouldn't have had to handle it on her own.

As to if the MPO could be enforced by either Onslow County or the Jacksonville PD, an MP could have given her that information.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

I am basing my opinion that Maria was afraid of laurean on a few things, not the least of which was her requesting a renewal of the protection order and keeping that order in her car with her. Lisa confirmed that Maria was afraid of him, as did her family. [/*]

I am of the opinion that the rape allegations were unfounded at this time given what we have been told by those who were involved.

IF I accused someone of RAPE and the accusations were unfounded, I would be afraid of them.

Further, I don't know any woman who would go to her alleged rapists home for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER, and that bolsters my belief that this case described as full of twists and turns will have many before all is said and done. JMO tho. :patriot:

Jan Powell

03-06-2008, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Then why have contact on the 14th?

I agree that it doesn't make sense for Maria to want to have ANYTHING to do with Cesar after she reported a rape, nor him with her.

But apparently they did on the 14th (if not before). What brought that about? [/*]

JMO but probably an unpopular one; maybe he knew from his legal help she was trying to recant the alleged charges and may have thought she actually had. With that and promising to leave town so there would be no DNA to refute his no sexual contact claim.

That served both their purposes, the charges are gone and she gets to leave before her family gets there and she gets to keep her baby.

IMO, that is what the phone call or visit (between those two) that day was about. Maria couldn't leave on the 15th, she came back and CSL came home and I don't think CSL bought the story.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

well...all we have heard is that they had an on-going contact of some kind.....we have never heard that they did not contact each other......jmo

however, we have also heard ML was afraid of CL... [/*]

And yet she goes to his home. What is your explanation for that?

:confused:

Charlotte

03-06-2008, 04:14 PM

I'm new to this case, so I'm trying to get up to speed on some things.

The commanding officer issued the verbal MPO on May 12 forbidding Laurean to have contact with Maria.

When was his verbal order followed up with a written one, and when was it renewed?

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell

JMO but probably an unpopular one; maybe he knew from his legal help she was trying to recant the alleged charges and may have thought she actually had. With that and promising to leave town so there would be no DNA to refute his no sexual contact claim.

That served both their purposes, the charges are gone and she gets to leave before her family gets there and she gets to keep her baby.

IMO, that is what the phone call or visit (between those two) that day was about. Maria couldn't leave on the 15th, she came back and CSL came home and I don't think CSL bought the story. [/*]

I think that's possible Jan. :shrug:

bkwits

03-06-2008, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

She would have no reason for him to "sign papers". What kind of papers? Adoption papers? Aren't they usually handled by the hospital and the lawyers?

If he called and threatened her, she should have called the MP's right then and there and let them handle it. She wouldn't have had to handle it on her own.

As to if the MPO could be enforced by either Onslow County or the Jacksonville PD, an MP could have given her that information. [/*]

Why would she call the MPs nobody ever believed her before. It would be just her word against his. I don't know what kind of paper except maybe relinquishing his rights, or maybe she wanted to know if he would be willing to sign such a paper. Could she call the MPs when she and he are both off-base?

IMO

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

And yet she goes to his home. What is your explanation for that?

:confused: [/*]

I tend to believe that she had been there before and this time she came through the side gate (where CL and CSL claim she slit her throat) because he wouldn't answer the door after leaving her at the bus station.

there was something going on between them before 12-14...jmo

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

I tend to believe that she had been there before and this time she came through the side gate (where CL and CSL claim she slit her throat) because he wouldn't answer the door after leaving her at the bus station.

there was something going on between them before 12-14...jmo [/*]

Okay, so you think they had some kind of cordial or civil relationship and that she went to his house willingly the first time and the second time, is that correct?

Then things went bad when she returned from the bus station?

Just making sure I understand. :cool:

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Okay, so you think they had some kind of cordial or civil relationship and that she went to his house willingly the first time and the second time, is that correct?

Then things went bad when she returned from the bus station?

Just making sure I understand. :cool: [/*]

I don't know what their relationship could be labeled as being.

I do think ML had been to the Laurean house prior to the month of Dec.

and yes things went bad when she came from the bus station....imo

IvySterling

03-06-2008, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

And yet she goes to his home. What is your explanation for that?

:confused: [/*]
Especially since she had told her mother at 2:30 she was dilated 2cm and having contractions, or was that just a "little white lie" :shrug:

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

Especially since she had told her mother at 2:30 she was dilated 2cm and having contractions, or was that just a "little white lie" :shrug: [/*]

That certainly wasn't in the timeline as confirmed by medical professionals. Remember, her last OB was Nov. 26 and she was due for another December 26th for which she did not show.

I know you weren't trying to insinuate that Ivy. I think she wanted off the phone with Mary given her FIRST accounts of said conversation.

So, no. I don't necessarily buy that lock, stock and barrel either.

JMO.

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe
Don't you think LE has a stack of interviews they've conducted with friends, family, and co-workers?

There are people out there that know about the daily lives of ML and CL....imo [/*]

Yes, I do and I think there are others who know the depth of their relationship that is not known to the public or even Maria's family.

It would be interesting to learn however if the Laurean family knew since when the media called them they said "you do not know the entire story." (paraphrasing)

I don't think the 14th was the only contact made between the two after the allegations were made.

imoo

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Yes, I do and I think there are others who know the depth of their relationship that is not known to the public or even Maria's family.

It would be interesting to learn however if the Laurean family knew since when the media called them they said "you do not know the entire story." (paraphrasing)

I don't think the 14th was the only contact made between the two after the allegations were made.

imoo [/*]

I think there are others who have confirmed what we don't know with reference to a relationship. An example is Nancy's report last night. We have to remember, their affiliates are usually around for the little pieces we don't get and I think Sutherland has answered questions for reporters every week since this started.

I would be quite shocked to learn that was the only contact myself. JMO.

Regina.Lampert

03-06-2008, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

I am of the opinion that the rape allegations were unfounded at this time given what we have been told by those who were involved.

IF I accused someone of RAPE and the accusations were unfounded, I would be afraid of them.

Further, I don't know any woman who would go to her alleged rapists home for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER, and that bolsters my belief that this case described as full of twists and turns will have many before all is said and done. JMO tho. :patriot: [/*]

"By those who were involved...." Who are you talking about, laurean? You believe the killer?

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 04:31 PM

Why would the MC describe the relationship as "on friendly terms"
"friendly relationship" etc.....seems someone there knew something or stated it for some reason I can't imagine.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

"By those who were involved...." Who are you talking about, laurean? You believe the killer? [/*]

Of course not, Laurean hasn't spoken yet. :shrug:

THE USMC and OCSD are those involved who have made statements and have documentation out there.

jmo

Jan Powell

03-06-2008, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Yes, I do and I think there are others who know the depth of their relationship that is not known to the public or even Maria's family.

It would be interesting to learn however if the Laurean family knew since when the media called them they said "you do not know the entire story." (paraphrasing)

I don't think the 14th was the only contact made between the two after the allegations were made.

imoo [/*]

You could be right, that could be the bizarre twist that the sheriff referred too. And to my mind, that would be bizarre, because I just can't square the alleged sexual assault charges against him and him continuing any type of relationship.

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

Why would she call the MPs nobody ever believed her before. It would be just her word against his. I don't know what kind of paper except maybe relinquishing his rights, or maybe she wanted to know if he would be willing to sign such a paper. Could she call the MPs when she and he are both off-base?

IMO [/*]

So she has an incoming call received, the number (and perhaps owner of the number) which is then recorded on her cell phone call list....wouldn't that be more than a "he said/she said"? If that happened, then he has violated the verbal and written order of no contact.

The MP's are unbiased, they will only follow what is written on the MPO.

As far as whether or not Jacksonville PD or Onslow County could have enforced the order, I said I didn't know. She could have called the MP's anyway and obtain instructions from them.

Plus, I think the fact there was an MPO, and an investigation which was headed toward Article 32 hearings pretty much says they did believe her. FWIW.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by dave sargent

ITA.

The "cordial" contact began before 12/14 MOO. And Possibly before the 11/5 interview when "the story was amended." JMO tho.

I am twisting and turning even If this Case isnt. And where is CL??? [/*]

For the record, I believe the story was adjusted. PM cleaning.

jmo

bkwits

03-06-2008, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

So she has an incoming call received, the number (and perhaps owner of the number) which is then recorded on her cell phone call list....wouldn't that be more than a "he said/she said"? If that happened, then he has violated the verbal and written order of no contact.

The MP's are unbiased, they will only follow what is written on the MPO.

As far as whether or not Jacksonville PD or Onslow County could have enforced the order, I said I didn't know. She could have called the MP's anyway and obtain instructions from them.

Plus, I think the fact there was an MPO, and an investigation which was headed toward Article 32 hearings pretty much says they did believe her. FWIW. [/*]

It wouldn't have to be a phone call. It could be in person, or by a third party. She had threats and harassment before and nothing was done. Why would this be any different.

From what I understand MC screwed up in that they didn't notify LLE of the MPO. She should have also had a civil restraining order. LLE couldn't do anything with an MPO. JMO

bkwits

03-06-2008, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by dave sargent

ITA.

The "cordial" contact began before 12/14 MOO. And Possibly before the 11/5 interview when "the story was amended." JMO tho.

I am twisting and turning even If this Case isnt. And where is CL??? [/*]

The MC says NO CONTACT between them. Do you disagree with that?

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Don't forget that NCIS is also involved...NCIS is NOT the Marine Corps. [/*]

Thanks nelkirk, and while I'm here I would like to thank you for sharing your experience with us. I hope for the best for you and your family.

We bring life experiences to this case and it helps all of us to form our opinions with so much still unknown IMO. I sure hope Cesar is captured soon. :patriot:

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Me either in fact I think it is obvious it has nothing whatsoever to do with the note. The note was given to the MC and then to OCSD on the morning of the 11th. Ciccarelli said they had learned of this info in the last 24 hours. That means imo they learned it on the Jan 14th. The note was known on the 11th.

imoo [/*]

You are mistaken. Ciccarelli said so ON THE 11TH.

The link provided upthread specifically has the date of January 11th.

Here is it again, with excerpts...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html

Aired January 11, 2008 - 12:00 ET

PAUL CICCARELLI, NAVAL INVESTIGATOR: He was not considered a flight risk. As a matter of fact, the information that was developed this morning, there are some indications that there may have been a relationship, could be friendly in nature, that occurred after the incident was reported between the subject and the victim.

If he said it on the 11th & said the info was developed THAT MORNING, I think it is safe to say that he was referring to the 11th of January, 2008.

JMO

bkwits

03-06-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

With an MPO in force the LLE would make an incident report which would then have been sent to NCIS and the Command Element..

ML could just as easily gotten a CPO by presenting her MPO to a civilian authorities. [/*]

Yes, she probably could have, but she was 20 years old and had a lot on her plate, but anyway I was speaking of threats on 12/14 or thereabouts, so maybe she didn't have time to report threats before she was killed. IMO

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 05:14 PM

I thought the alleged threats were well before December 14th IIRC.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by dave sargent

Yes

CL was ordered to STAY AWAY

Maria was not given an order to STay Away from CL. Her contacting CL was not against orders moo [/*]

That's a little far-fetched isn't it? CL is such a good guy, and good marine that he obeys all orders. I guess they forgot to tell CL not to rape and kill another marine and her child. IMO

bkwits

03-06-2008, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

What threats? Do you have a link? [/*]

I said maybe and IMO.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

It is a matter of the law of evidence.

When the MC says there was no contact..they are saying that they have no evidence that they were in contact with each other, nor do they have any evidence that they weren't in contact witho ne another.

It is not about what they know, but what they can prove. Do they have witnesses to place them in contact? Do they have any type of evidence that would show them in contact ie phone, text, pjotos etc. [/*]

Ok, then why do they later say they had a friendly relationship or something like that.?

bkwits

03-06-2008, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

So No Threats... [/*]

I don't know, do you?

But she was murdered and I believe he did it.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

That's a little far-fetched isn't it? CL is such a good guy, and good marine that he obeys all orders. I guess they forgot to tell CL not to rape and kill another marine and her child. IMO [/*]

Does anyone think she didn't know better to stay away from a man she accused of RAPE? Whether he did it or not; again, I can't imagine any woman going to the home of a man she accused of rape. JMO.

There is no reason to play with the fire after you light the match, especially when you have a MPO in hand IMO. :read:

jmo

gaelicpeas

03-06-2008, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

Ok, then why do they later say they had a friendly relationship or something like that.? [/*]

My opinion is that Sheriff Brown and Cicarelli based their 1-11 comments on CL's note saying that ML supposedly came willingly to his house (twice) on Dec 15 (which was apparently Dec 14).

In the MC PC Q&Q session the following week, Cicarelli did not confirm one way or the other whether there was a friendly relationship. He said it was still under investigation.

gaelicpeas

03-06-2008, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

I am going by their official Press Conference on January 15th, 2008. I have not seen anything OFFICIAL that says they had a "friendly" anything.

Do You have that link? [/*]

Cicarelli's statements at the 1-11 PC - although see my comments above about what I think he meant. The link is just upthread.

gaelicpeas

03-06-2008, 05:30 PM

btw, if any posters have not listened to the full MC PC Q&A session, the video of it is linked in the links thread. It is very informative, IMO.

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

My opinion is that Sheriff Brown and Cicarelli based their 1-11 comments on CL's note saying that ML supposedly came willingly to his house (twice) on Dec 15 (which was apparently Dec 14).

In the MC PC Q&Q session the following week, Cicarelli did not confirm one way or the other whether there was a friendly relationship. He said it was still under investigation. [/*]

I think you are exactly right. The press conference was at 11:00 a.m. on Jan. 11th - the morning that Christina brought them the note supposedly written by Cesar.

The information did NOT come from Durham, according to the Sheriff. He makes it very plain on the 11th that Durham did NOT have the information they needed and ALSO that what Durham told them was irrelevant to the PR they were giving.

Here it is again...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html

QUESTION: So you have interviewed Sergeant Durham?

BROWN: Yes. Sergeant Durham is in the building at this time, and I do not expect anybody to be taking photographs of him because he has -- at this time, he does not appear to have any relationship to her.

QUESTION: Did he have any information you needed?

BROWN: No, he did not have the information we needed.

...
QUESTION: What kind of information did Durham give you?

BROWN: Ma'am?

QUESTION: What kind of information did Durham give you?

BROWN: That is irrelevant to the release I'm giving you now. I don't know -- really don't know.

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 05:39 PM

Anybody remember what time Christina took the note to her C/O on the morning of the 11th? I am thinking it was around 7:30 - 8:30 a.m., but I can't swear to it. TIA

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Mimi428

I think you are exactly right. The press conference was at 11:00 a.m. on Jan. 11th - the morning that Christina brought them the note supposedly written by Cesar.

The information did NOT come from Durham, according to the Sheriff. He makes it very plain on the 11th that Durham did NOT have the information they needed and ALSO that what Durham told them was irrelevant to the PR they were giving.

Here it is again...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html

QUESTION: So you have interviewed Sergeant Durham?

BROWN: Yes. Sergeant Durham is in the building at this time, and I do not expect anybody to be taking photographs of him because he has -- at this time, he does not appear to have any relationship to her.

QUESTION: Did he have any information you needed?

BROWN: No, he did not have the information we needed.

...
QUESTION: What kind of information did Durham give you?

BROWN: Ma'am?

QUESTION: What kind of information did Durham give you?

BROWN: That is irrelevant to the release I'm giving you now. I don't know -- really don't know. [/*]

From your link:

BROWN: The factor is you investigate this case regardless of where it takes you. And it's taken us here. The person that we had brought back had some answers that we needed. He is not a suspect in this case and he is not the key witness in this case.

Lynn Gweeny

03-06-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by Mimi428
Anybody remember what time Christina took the note to her C/O on the morning of the 11th? I am thinking it was around 7:30 - 8:30 a.m., but I can't swear to it. TIA [/*]

Jan. 11

-- The command receives information regarding a note in the possession of Laurean’s spouse that will have a significant bearing on the case.

-- About 9 a.m., Paul Ciccarelli, special agent in charge aboard Camp Lejeune for Naval Criminal Investigative Service, calls Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown to report that Laurean's wife had found a hand-written note from her husband in their home about 4 a.m. that day. Officials believe he left town about 4 a.m.

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/map_54317___article.html/_.html

Jan Powell

03-06-2008, 05:50 PM

"He claimed Lauterbach slit her own throat and he buried her body. However, the state medical examiner said Lauterbach's autopsy showed she was killed by a blow to the head. A source close to the investigation said Lauterbach's throat was cut postmortem, possibly in an attempt to disguise her true manner of death."

Could both the Lauren's have been so uninformed about forensics to believe a ME couldn't determine it was the blow to the head that actually caused Maria's death?

I don't think that Maria slit her own throat but I think there was a frenzy because IIRC, there was blood in more than one area in the home and garage.

I also think both slitting her throat and the blow to the head happened very close to the same time and by two people. The throat may be a perimortem injury and not postmortem. I would be cooperative too if I were CSL.

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 05:53 PM

Let's see if we can clarify the possibility that the info that Durham gave was the reason LE & NCIS & the USMC believed there had been prior friendly contact between Maria & Cesar.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html

You've got the release here. I have for a week now been dealing with positive/negative, positive/negative. It is very stressful in an investigation when it goes that way because you can't get set in one direction and feel comfortable there. You feel uncomfortable all the time.

But today, this morning, we received this information that you've been provided, and that information is that Mrs. Lauterbach is dead, and has been buried here in Oslow County. The suspect in the case is the Marine accused by her for assaulting her. And while you all have been getting up here, we have been getting out there and/or stretching the area for the grave that could be in and around the place where she was murdered, or where she is claimed to have died at.

Understand, I'm not calling it murder because the story has got some twists and turns in it.

At this time, since you've got all the information before you, I will -- and Mr. Chickarelli (ph) also will be available to answer what questions we can answer. Even though we've come to this place, there will still be questions we can't just come right out and give you -- answers we can give you, but we'll try to answer what we can and do anything we can.

QUESTION: Did you say the person involved in the sexual assault case is the suspect?

BROWN: Yes, sir. That's in your report, in your letter -- in your release there.

QUESTION: Sheriff, you said yesterday that wasn't a factor for you all, that that was a factor for the Marines. Is it now a factor for your department as well?

BROWN: The factor is you investigate this case regardless of where it takes you. And it's taken us here. The person that we had brought back had some answers that we needed. He is not a suspect in this case and he is not the key witness in this case.

QUESTION: So you have interviewed Sergeant Durham?

BROWN: Yes. Sergeant Durham is in the building at this time, and I do not expect anybody to be taking photographs of him because he has -- at this time, he does not appear to have any relationship to her.

QUESTION: Did he have any information you needed?

BROWN: No, he did not have the information we needed.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

BROWN: I don't like to put anybody in that category, but right now we're just looking at him as a key suspect in her disappearance and relative to her death. (CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: What kind of information did Durham give you?

BROWN: Ma'am?

QUESTION: What kind of information did Durham give you?

BROWN: That is irrelevant to the release I'm giving you now. I don't know -- really don't know.

You've got to understand, we've been -- I told you earlier the wheels have been turning so fast, and you've bound to be seeing people coming and go, too. They've been turning so fast, that I don't have everything right before me.

I told you I'd give you a news release at 12:00, and I was 20 minutes late. Therefore, it has been -- I couldn't keep the appointment.

Durham has not at this time, as I know of, given any information that makes him any part of a suspect in this case.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

believing and having evidence to prove it are two different things... [/*]

Oh, I think LE has plenty of evidence. We are not privy to it though. Who do you think murdered Maria and Gabriel or do you think she slit her own throat?

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

From your link:

[/*]BROWN: The factor is you investigate this case regardless of where it takes you. And it's taken us here. The person that we had brought back had some answers that we needed. He is not a suspect in this case and he is not the key witness in this case.

I don't think for a minute they were believing the notes of what could be a mad man killer and were trying to pass it off as information. JMO tho.:shrug:

Now I might believe DD has some info on a relationship or contact, but not believing the sheriff is taking the notes allegedly written by Cesar as good evidence.

jmo

ETA - IF Christina aka cooperating witness is also their key witness, then I might believe she told them they had been talking and she knew it. That I find believable, but not the alleged written rantings of a man they believe killed Maria and Gabriel.

AGAIN, JMO.

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 05:59 PM

I think, and this is JMO, that LE wanted to talk with Durham to see if perhaps Maria had contacted him since leaving the note on 12/14. Maybe a Christmas card, phone call....anything. Or to see if he had seen Maria or if she was with him for some reason.

Durham *probably* told them the last contact with her was on 12/14, so that's the "he didn't have the information we needed".

Also, IMO, LE could very well have asked him if he knew anything about Cesar and that *might* be the reason for the "person we had brought back had some answers that we needed." response.

K.I.S.S. theory, IMO, and all that jazz.

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 06:15 PM

Here's another K.I.S.S. bit of info.

Same link...

QUESTION: Did Durham provide that information?

BROWN: Durham has not provided any information that I'm providing you.

Sounds pretty simple to me.

JMO

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by Mimi428
Here's another K.I.S.S. bit of info.

Same link...

QUESTION: Did Durham provide that information?

BROWN: Durham has not provided any information that I'm providing you.

Sounds pretty simple to me.

JMO [/*]

The information SB was providing was in the press release concerning the death of Maria.

So, no Durham wouldn't have provided THAT information.

And IIRC, SB also said that he himself had not talked to Durham, but that NCIS had.

:shrug:

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 06:28 PM

since ML did not file any rape allegation within the reasonable timeframe of the rape occuring.....it is not out of the realm of possibilty that if CL were in contact with her, she would not go to authorities and report it.....jmo

from what I have heard and read, ML made her own decisions.

henry

03-06-2008, 06:33 PM

for your information, several posters submitted questions, and outside of the IS message board, a group question list was submitted to rsutherland and he responded to each question. those individuals that submitted questions and have requested a copy of rsutherland's correspondence have been provided with his answers, again . . . outside of the IS message board.

so, in the future, you may see some posters relying on the information provided by rsutherland, of course keeping in mind and staying within the parameters of c/w's rules on email correspondence.

also, i should mention that he was told that the questions were from some of the posters on the IS message board . . . and he was invited to join the board or read the posts.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by henry
for your information, several posters submitted questions, and outside of the IS message board, a group question list was submitted to rsutherland and he responded to each question. those individuals that submitted questions and have requested a copy of rsutherland's correspondence have been provided with his answers, again . . . outside of the IS message board.

so, in the future, you may see some posters relying on the information provided by rsutherland, of course keeping in mind and staying within the parameters of c/w's rules on email correspondence.

also, i should mention that he was told that the questions were from some of the posters on the IS message board . . . and he was invited to join the board or read the posts. [/*]

Why not post it on the links thread?:shrug:

henry

03-06-2008, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Why not post it on the links thread?:shrug: [/*]

i'm confused . . . there's no link . . . are you referencing the post? tia

SavannahStar

03-06-2008, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Why not post it on the links thread?:shrug: [/*]

Weird. :shrug:

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by henry

i'm confused . . . there's no link . . . are you referencing the post? tia [/*]

You could put the post somewhere to host it like photobucket or ask CW if it can be put in the links thread like she asked the acronym list to be done IMO.

Just a thought, so there is no confusion.

Peace henry. :)

gaelicpeas

03-06-2008, 06:49 PM

SavannahStar

03-06-2008, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

You could put the post somewhere to host it like photobucket or ask CW if it can be put in the links thread like she asked the acronym list to be done IMO.

Just a thought, so there is no confusion.

Peace henry. :) [/*]

Well I guess I'm just confused over why any posters who did NOT happen to "submit" questions would not be able to see the info. So the way I understand it, only the posters who sent questions get to know the answers to those questions, if they decide to share with the board?

:shrug:

henry

03-06-2008, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Henry - can you paraphrase his answers? I don't know what the rules are here about posting emails... [/*]

sure . . . let me go & find them again . . . have you read your pm's lately?

bkwits

03-06-2008, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

What I believe and what I can prove are two different things. I think I will hold my cards close to my vest until there is more evidence available to us. [/*]

Ok, it may be quite a wait though. We probably won't see any "evidence" until there is a trial. If htere ever is one.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

Weird. :shrug: [/*]

I find Sutherland to be very open to community oriented internet discussion on the cases he covers. We were fortunate to have a PIO like this in the Kobe Bryant case and it gave us information we wouldn't otherwise get IMO. Many of us were thankful for Hurlbert and Flannagin no matter what the outcome was to that case.

It wasn't that the information was under wraps, but just that there had been no forum to question it and get answers out in the public eye.

I think Capt. Sutherland should be applauded for his willingness to step up to the plate when reporters and citizens alike have questions.

JMO tho.

henry

03-06-2008, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

Well I guess I'm just confused over why any posters who did NOT happen to "submit" questions would not be able to see the info. So the way I understand it, only the posters who sent questions get to know the answers to those questions, if they decide to share with the board?

:shrug: [/*]

i'll check with c/w to see if i can copy/paste it to the links page . . . will keep you posted.

Kel65

03-06-2008, 06:54 PM

I think it would be great if Sutherland decided to join the board, however I doubt he will. I hope someone can paraphrase the answers to the questions (of course keeping in line with CW and IS rules). If not, can they be PM'ed to those who would like to know? Still trying to figure out proper protocol here. Thanks!

SavannahStar

03-06-2008, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

I find Sutherland to be very open to community oriented internet discussion on the cases he covers. We were fortunate to have a PIO like this in the Kobe Bryant case and it gave us information we wouldn't otherwise get IMO. Many of us were thankful for Hurlbert and Flannagin no matter what the outcome was to that case.

It wasn't that the information was under wraps, but just that there had been no forum to question it and get answers out in the public eye.

I think Capt. Sutherland should be applauded for his willingness to step up to the plate when reporters and citizens alike have questions.

JMO tho. [/*]

You already explained that Candy. That's not what my "weird" was about. :D

I thought since that info had been given, it should be shared with the board, in some fashion. Not just by way of posters posting responses. Know what I mean?

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

You already explained that Candy. That's not what my "weird" was about. :D

I thought since that info had been given, it should be shared with the board, in some fashion. Not just by way of posters posting responses. Know what I mean? [/*]

YES, I do know what you mean and don't understand why it's so convoluted. Capt. Sutherland was advised there were questions from various individuals and I think it should be public.

He is called the public information officer in this case, correct?

I see no reason for anyone to question it, but that's JMO. :cool:

bkwits

03-06-2008, 06:58 PM

Earlier today, I stated that Maria and Cesar had contact on 12/14 before she was at his house. I was relying on the answer that Rick Sutherland gave to the question that I had submitted. He didn't say who made contact first.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by dave sargent

Did they provide the info as a link or post tia??

Clairvoyant that I am can "SEE" where the paraphrasing is going :biggrin: [/*]

I don't think paraphrasing is a good thing for this parsing group we have become. JMO tho. :D

henry

03-06-2008, 07:00 PM

wow . . . the only message i've kept in my in pile - quote of c/w's pm to me

On feedback forum:

"---------------------
"They e-mailed me a copy, so I can post it."

To have a copy is not to have the copyright. All the E-mail you write is copyrighted. However, E-mail is not, unless previously agreed, secret. So you can certainly report on what E-mail
you are sent, and reveal what it says. You can even QUOTE PARTS of it to demonstrate but if you want to stay strictly in the law, you should ask the author first.

:confused: who would the author be . . . the sender or the responder . . . guess i'm going to talk with c/w

SavannahStar

03-06-2008, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

YES, I do know what you mean and don't understand why it's so convoluted. Capt. Sutherland was advised there were questions from various individuals and I think it should be public.

He is called the public information officer in this case, correct?

I see no reason for anyone to question it, but that's JMO. :cool: [/*]

Huh? I still don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Yes......whatever he answered SHOULD be "public."

SavannahStar

03-06-2008, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

I don't think paraphrasing is a good thing for this parsing group we have become. JMO tho. :D [/*]

No. It's not. That's exactly the point.

gaelicpeas

03-06-2008, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by henry

sure . . . let me go & find them again . . . have you read your pm's lately? [/*]

No... I will go read them now...

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by henry
wow . . . the only message i've kept in my in pile - quote of c/w's pm to me

On feedback forum:

"---------------------
"They e-mailed me a copy, so I can post it."

To have a copy is not to have the copyright. All the E-mail you write is copyrighted. However, E-mail is not, unless previously agreed, secret. So you can certainly report on what E-mail
you are sent, and reveal what it says. You can even QUOTE PARTS of it to demonstrate but if you want to stay strictly in the law, you should ask the author first.

:confused: who would the author be . . . the sender or the responder . . . guess i'm going to talk with c/w [/*]

The author IMO would be Sutherland and he knew you were asking on behalf of a group of people. Ergo, his permission was given when he emailed the answers and given that his title is PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, I would *guess* it is covered that way. I think you should make sure CW knows that is his title.

JMO tho.

strick10

03-06-2008, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Many of us had the same questions so we didn't add them to the list. [/*]

Ditto....and I have no pm from henry :(

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 07:10 PM

This is becoming way too convoluted and it doesn't have to be IMO.

:shrug:

How about we just wait and see if CW allows it up on the links thread? I'm sure she'll answer shortly. JMO

henry

03-06-2008, 07:11 PM

okay . . . pm sent to c/w . . . so be on your best behavior :)

Kel65

03-06-2008, 07:12 PM

I suspect there will be holes blown into some theories based on Sutherlands answers to questions.

I have always thought that there was contact post rape allegation and pre murder. I personally don't believe there was a rape. I think it was a relationship gone sour and then turned into a tragedy for Maria and unborn child. No one deserves what happened to them.

All parties involved in the tragedy were very young and didn't make what I would consider sound judgments. I reflect back to my time when I was their age and know I could and did make some serious errors in judgment (please understand that these errors would not have included me committing murder). Fortunately for me, the bad choices in love that I made in my 20's were overcome and I was fortunate enough to be in my 30s when I met my husband, when I understood what I wanted in life. We were both well into our 30s when we married (first marriages for both). Definitely a good thing because our 20s were "roaring".

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 07:15 PM

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 07:15 PM

Take this as you wish, but one of the things that was answered by Sutherland is (and I quote)

"The shoe is a male's. We know who it belongs to. I can't really discuss anything else about the shoe."

Up to each individual if you accept that he wrote it, IMO.

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Mimi428
Take this as you wish, but one of the things that was answered by Sutherland is (and I quote)

"The shoe is a male's. We know who it belongs to. I can't really discuss anything else about the shoe."

Up to each individual if you accept that he wrote it, IMO. [/*]

if the shoe is CL's and that is blood on it.....that doesn't change much in what LE believes happened...imo

henry

03-06-2008, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Ditto....and I have no pm from henry :( [/*]

please check your pm's . . . thanks :)

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by henry

please check your pm's . . . thanks :) [/*]

do only certain posters get the info?

Cardinal

03-06-2008, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

do only certain posters get the info? [/*]

That's my question also, Jan. I hadn't realized this was a private board.

Charlotte

03-06-2008, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk
January 15, 2008

As per MC/PC MPOs

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-01-15-0028.html [/*]

Nelkirk, thanks for the info and link. Much appreciated. :)

henry

03-06-2008, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

do only certain posters get the info? [/*]

please read back . . . i'm trying to find a way and am waiting for an answer from c/w.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 07:22 PM

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

ITA

Can you see a discussion where a person doesn't have to provide a link, they just say it came via Capt. Sutherland's email and we have no way to substantiate the facts. [/*]

maybe it will be posted to the links some time soon.......

either you're with the IN crowd or the OUT crowd.....LOL

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

if the shoe is CL's and that is blood on it.....that doesn't change much in what LE believes happened...imo [/*]

Depends on whose blood it is.

The blood and the shoe might belong to Cesar.

:D

(No tracking blood on the rug that way. LOL)

bkwits

03-06-2008, 07:27 PM

FYI

Captain Sutherland said he could only answer questions about what has already been released by LE.

He did not add any new information.

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Depends on whose blood it is.

The blood and the shoe might belong to Cesar.

:D

(No tracking blood on the rug that way. LOL) [/*]

that would help the theory that CSL did away with CL wouldn't it!

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

do only certain posters get the info? [/*]

I would say that depends on what CW advises. Henry has send a PM to the moderator, asking her advice on how to handle/address the email from Capt. Sutherland.

In the past, CW has advised that giving a brief quote is permissible (such as I did about the shoe) - but that does not cover the entire email.

And sure as you're born, there is no way, no how that any poster who relays what Sutherland said is going to be believed. Won't happen.

JMO

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by bkwits
FYI

Captain Sutherland said he could only answer questions about what has already been released by LE.

He did not add any new information. [/*]

have you read the info released by Sutherland?

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

that would help the theory that CSL did away with CL wouldn't it! [/*]

Yer danged skippy!

And would also explain her and her attorney getting all indignant about it being shown on tv. Yet not a peep out of Cesar's attorney.

bkwits

03-06-2008, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

maybe it will be posted to the links some time soon.......

either you're with the IN crowd or the OUT crowd.....LOL [/*]

Did you submit questions?

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

Did you submit questions? [/*]

no I didn't but followed the thread that it may happen.....

bkwits

03-06-2008, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

have you read the info released by Sutherland? [/*]

Do you mean the answers to the questions?

Cardinal

03-06-2008, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

I am really starting to think that too nelkirk. This is why it's important not to dismiss going over material IMO.

Nothing should be barred or put away, as there are many possibilities still out there and the bizarre twists and turns have yet to reveal themselves in their entirety IMHO. :patriot: [/*]

ITA Until more of the FACTS are known, I don't see how anything reasonable can be discounted.

JMO

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

Do you mean the answers to the questions? [/*]

yes....what henry is posting about....you said FYI no new info...I was asking if you have seen what Sutherland sent back?

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by Cardinal

ITA Until more of the FACTS are known, I don't see how anything reasonable can be discounted.

JMO [/*]

Only problem is defining "reasonable". What some folks find 'reasonable', others may find highly unlikely.

JMO & YMMV

bkwits

03-06-2008, 07:35 PM

I am not going to post anymore about the questions to Sutherland unless there is a definite answer as to what we can reference. I didn't think it would be so controversia. Sorry.:shrug:

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by Mimi428
Take this as you wish, but one of the things that was answered by Sutherland is (and I quote)

"The shoe is a male's. We know who it belongs to. I can't really discuss anything else about the shoe."

Up to each individual if you accept that he wrote it, IMO. [/*]

Hey, what was the question?

:D

"I'll take things found in the yard by Greta, for a hundred!"

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES
BROWN: The factor is you investigate this case regardless of where it takes you. And it's taken us here. The person that we had brought back had some answers that we needed. He is not a suspect in this case and he is not the key witness in this case.

I don't think for a minute they were believing the notes of what could be a mad man killer and were trying to pass it off as information. JMO tho.:shrug:

Now I might believe DD has some info on a relationship or contact, but not believing the sheriff is taking the notes allegedly written by Cesar as good evidence.

jmo

ETA - IF Christina aka cooperating witness is also their key witness, then I might believe she told them they had been talking and she knew it. That I find believable, but not the alleged written rantings of a man they believe killed Maria and Gabriel.

AGAIN, JMO. [/*]

I found this part very interesting from Mimi's link.

"The person that we had brought back had some ANSWERS that we needed. He is not a suspect in this case and he is not the key witness in this case."

I think it very likely that DD knew of the relationship between ML and CL and maybe knew she had discussed it via email with friends.

But whatever, I think that law enforcement has gotten to the bottom of it by now by interviewing various witnesses that knew Maria or CL or both.

I still believe there was contact after the incident that was reported in May 07 and before 12-14..

imoo

Cardinal

03-06-2008, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Mimi428

Only problem is defining "reasonable". What some folks find 'reasonable', others may find highly unlikely.

JMO & YMMV [/*]

I don't see that as a problem. I see that as a basis for discussion. Everyone can agree or disagree. Isn't that how the board is supposed to work, or am I in the wrong place?

bkwits

03-06-2008, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

yes....what henry is posting about....you said FYI no new info...I was asking if you have seen what Sutherland sent back? [/*]

I'll repost this as an answer.

I am not going to post anymore about the questions to Sutherland unless there is a definite answer as to what we can reference. I didn't think it would be so controversial. Sorry.

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I found this part very interesting from Mimi's link.

"The person that we had brought back had some ANSWERS that we needed. He is not a suspect in this case and he is not the key witness in this case."

I think it very likely that DD knew of the relationship between ML and CL and maybe knew she had discussed it via email with friends.

But whatever, I think that law enforcement has gotten to the bottom of it by now by interviewing various witnesses that knew Maria or CL or both.

I still believe there was contact after the incident that was reported in May 07 and before 12-14..

imoo [/*]

I agree with that:beer:

crymeariver2006

03-06-2008, 07:38 PM

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Hey, what was the question?

:D

"I'll take things found in the yard by Greta, for a hundred!" [/*]

"This is in reference to the shoe that was 'found' when Greta Van Sustern came to town. Was this shoe completely wet, slightly damp or completely dry? Remember it had rained a couple of days prior to Greta's arrival in Jacksonville. Did the SBI originally see this shoe and determined it had no relevance? Was this shoe a woman's or man's shoe and has it been determined who's shoe it is?"

The above is exactly as the question was posed. No additions, subtractions, etc.

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Mimi428

"This is in reference to the shoe that was 'found' when Greta Van Sustern came to town. Was this shoe completely wet, slightly damp or completely dry? Remember it had rained a couple of days prior to Greta's arrival in Jacksonville. Did the SBI originally see this shoe and determined it had no relevance? Was this shoe a woman's or man's shoe and has it been determined who's shoe it is?"

The above is exactly as the question was posed. No additions, subtractions, etc. [/*]

Thank you:)

CanCan

03-06-2008, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Hey, what was the question?

:D

"I'll take things found in the yard by Greta, for a hundred!" [/*]

:lol: You crack me up, cryme.

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Cardinal

I don't see that as a problem. I see that as a basis for discussion. Everyone can agree or disagree. Isn't that how the board is supposed to work, or am I in the wrong place? [/*]

Speaking only for myself, I don't think it has been a problem yet. However, I have NEVER been on a CTV board in which rape was alleged that did NOT attract a handful of people (over time, not necessarily all at once) who post some very vile things regarding the person who was alleged to have been raped.

Lucky for us, our moderator has always given them the boot tout de suite.

JMO

bkwits

03-06-2008, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Mimi428

Speaking only for myself, I don't think it has been a problem yet. However, I have NEVER been on a CTV board in which rape was alleged that did NOT attract a handful of people (over time, not necessarily all at once) who post some very vile things regarding the person who was alleged to have been raped.

Lucky for us, our moderator has always given them the boot tout de suite.

JMO [/*]

I agree, but I was rather shocked that even though she was "allegedly" murdered by her "alleged" rapist in a brutal, cold and callous manner, and he went on with his life seemingly unconcerned, even hosting holiday bonfires over her bloodied body and that of her child, even then some people don't believe her.

Maybe it is something inherent in our nature. In some cultures women are killed or locked away in a dark room for life, if they are raped.

:mad:

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 08:00 PM

I believe CL should and will be prosecuted for Murder....

I am not sure how I would characterize the relationship between
ML and CL tho.

Cardinal

03-06-2008, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

I agree, but I was rather shocked that even though she was "allegedly" murdered by her "alleged" rapist in a brutal, cold and callous manner, and he went on with his life seemingly unconcerned, even hosting holiday bonfires over her bloodied body and that of her child, even then some people don't believe her.

Maybe it is something inherent in our nature. In some cultures women are killed or locked away in a dark room for life, if they are raped.

:mad: [/*]

Since I've used the word "alleged" on several occasions, I will respond to this, bk.

As I understand the justice system in this country, until someone is convicted, "alleged" is the appropriate adjective to refer to the accused.

I apologize if my use of that word has offended anyone - that was not my intent. Know, however, that I will continue to use it, until the charges are proven, or until sufficient facts are made public to convince me that its use is no longer warranted.

SavannahStar

03-06-2008, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Cardinal

Since I've used the word "alleged" on several occasions, I will respond to this, bk.

As I understand the justice system in this country, until someone is convicted, "alleged" is the appropriate adjective to refer to the accused.

I apologize if my use of that word has offended anyone - that was not my intent. Know, however, that I will continue to use it, until the charges are proven, or until sufficient facts are made public to convince me that its use is no longer warranted. [/*]

:patriot: Bravo!

Pruddennce

03-06-2008, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

There is no definitive proof that anyone cut the throat of ML. That entire RUMOR came from the JD Daily News and it said that a source had supplied that information and further speculated that it was done postmortem in order to possibly confuse the real COD.

IMO the "slit her own throat" is an idiomatic phrase that means that she "settled her fate when she decided to come to their home" and that he only buried the body after she met her fate. [/*]

except...information in the search warrant clearly states what CL told his wife: she slit her own throat. and the investigator stated in that warrant: "I do not believe Marie Lauterbach committed suicide". that was before COD was announced.

http://www.whiotv.com/download/2008/0117/15077500.pdf

and of course, autopsy results have yielded cause of death. ML did not kill herself.

direct quote from Sheriff Brown regarding the note and what it said:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22608032/

this is all indicative of ML suffering a post-mortem injury. The location of her remains were revealed in the note. Surely, CL thought his secondary deed was going to be considered as COD....why say it if the injury wasnt there?

best regards,
Pru

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

so there is a connection but they don't want to reveal that or else wouldn't they just say their was NO connection? [/*]

I think he is saying, yes, they have found the connection but will not reveal it at this time.

imoo

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

It is hard to wait isn't it?:)

I think if CW permits it we will have to read some of his answers very carefully because sometimes LE speak in guarded code.

imoo [/*]

yes for SURE!

I would think he could answer if there is a website for updates.

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I think he is saying, yes, they have found the connection but will not reveal it at this time.

imoo [/*]

I think a lot of us thought there was more connection there than just a bus ticket in her name.....jmo

SavannahStar

03-06-2008, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

I think a lot of us thought there was more connection there than just a bus ticket in her name.....jmo [/*]

I swear I thought very early on they had reported she had family there. :shrug:

Mimi428

03-06-2008, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

so there is a connection but they don't want to reveal that or else wouldn't they just say ther was NO connection? [/*]

GB has VERY GOOD advice - to read his answers & ponder on them CAREFULLY, taking into consideration that Sutherland & OCSD have stressed -

"...can not release any new information that we have not already released."

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

I swear I thought very early on they had reported she had family there. :shrug: [/*]

I never heard that before......wonder why her mother didn't
speak out about that especially since she was going to NC to visit
ML.....doesn't add.....:shrug:

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

I think a lot of us thought there was more connection there than just a bus ticket in her name.....jmo [/*]

I agree. I am one of those and I do believe there is a direct connection to El Paso and Maria.

What that is................ we are going to have to wait until trial imo.

imoo

SavannahStar

03-06-2008, 08:26 PM

SavannahStar

03-06-2008, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

I never heard that before......wonder why her mother didn't
speak out about that especially since she was going to NC to visit
ML.....doesn't add.....:shrug: [/*]

I could have been wrong, seems to me I brought it up again, just like now, and someone clarified. I honestly don't remember at this point.

strick10

03-06-2008, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

I never heard that before......wonder why her mother didn't
speak out about that especially since she was going to NC to visit
ML.....doesn't add.....:shrug: [/*]

I've found 2 Lauterbachs and 5 Steiners that are property owners in EP. No Laureans but some Laureano. Laurean is not a common name.

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

I could have been wrong, seems to me I brought it up again, just like now, and someone clarified. I honestly don't remember at this point. [/*]

I do remember that being said very early on in the case SS.

imoo

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

I'm tellin ya- she had a couple in ElPaso or areas thereabouts that was going to adopt the baby the minute it was born, Such a couple would put Maria up, pay all hospital related bills, plus probably cash for her in some form. Its done everyday. They didn't have to necessairly know she was even in the marines, and UA, or planning to be AWOL/ UA.. You wait and see...Annie is right about THIS ONE THING.
And if I am wrong I will mea culpa for all time..... [/*]

now if true.....that adds-up....imo

bkwits

03-06-2008, 08:31 PM

Cardinal

03-06-2008, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

t
That would sound plausible except that her family didn't seem to know anything about that. Since her mom wanted her to put the baby up for adoption, why wouldn't Maria tell her?
And if Mary L did know about it, why was she coming to NC?

:shrug: [/*]

Maybe there were a lot of things Maria didn't tell her mother?

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by Mimi428

GB has VERY GOOD advice - to read his answers & ponder on them CAREFULLY, taking into consideration that Sutherland & OCSD have stressed -

"...can not release any new information that we have not already released." [/*]

AND WITH THAT IN MIND....

Remember he has been having briefings with the local press weekly IMO.

He stated that last week IIRC. They don't report every morsel and they don't tell you how much of the puzzle they have pieced together after his briefings IMO. :shrug:

SavannahStar

03-06-2008, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I do remember that being said very early on in the case SS.

imoo [/*]

Whew. I thought I was going crazy. :tongue:

JanDoe

03-06-2008, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I've found 2 Lauterbachs and 5 Steiners that are property owners in EP. No Laureans but some Laureano. Laurean is not a common name. [/*]

it would be difficult for me as a mother to NOT call if a pregnant girl was planning to come to my home without her family knowing.

I guess I just want to believe that ML was as close to Mary as
Mary states.

CANDYKISSES

03-06-2008, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by Cardinal

Maybe there were a lot of things Maria didn't tell her mother? [/*]

Yes, if you look at the interview of Mary that Lynn put up last week, she had no idea that one would be deemed consensual and denied there had been any kind of social contact between the two. I believe that's not accurate. JMO after much reading and quizzing.

I believe that's why Nancy Grace referred to her as his lover and I further believe Nancy's local affiliate reps go to the briefings.

AGAIN, JMO.

GentleBreeze

03-06-2008, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

AND WITH THAT IN MIND....

Remember he has been having briefings with the local press weekly IMO.

He stated that last week IIRC. They don't report every morsel and they don't tell you how much of the puzzle they have pieced together after his briefings IMO. :shrug: [/*]

Right you are Candy. He may release information we don't know but things he had already told the media in his briefings.

It isn't his fault that they may not have reported what was told.

So I think we still may get some answers we didn't know. Heck if we get one answered that is a good start.

imoo

strick10

03-06-2008, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by JanDoe

it would be difficult for me as a mother to NOT call if a pregnant girl was planning to come to my home without her family knowing.

I guess I just want to believe that ML was as close to Mary as
Mary states. [/*]

I think that Maria may have contacted whomever is in EP on the 14th after she purchased the ticket and whomever is in EP told her that she could not come which is where her plan failed? Can't tell for sure if the property owners are related though....so.....

bkwits

03-06-2008, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I've found 2 Lauterbachs and 5 Steiners that are property owners in EP. No Laureans but some Laureano. Laurean is not a common name. [/*]

There are hundreds of Lauterbachs and Steiners in the US (maybe thousands). I think when Maria went missing, whoever was expecting her would come forward. IMO

Cardinal

03-06-2008, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Yes, if you look at the interview of Mary that Lynn put up last week, she had no idea that one would be deemed consensual and denied there had been any kind of social contact between the two. I believe that's not accurate. JMO after much reading and quizzing.

I believe that's why Nancy Grace referred to her as his lover and I further believe Nancy's local affiliate reps go to the briefings.

AGAIN, JMO. [/*]

When I was Maria's age, my rule was not to tell my mother anything I thought she couldn't handle. I love/loved her very much, but I thought she didn't understand my life and I didn't want her to worry about me.

I think there could be many things Maria didn't tell her mother, for those same reasons.

JMO