Wednesday - 03-05-08 - a.m.

[henry]

good morning - yes, it's day 55 and yes, i continue to put a.m. on the thread heading in the hopes that today will be the day cesar's captured . . . didn't think it would get so much use for c/w shutdowns (which i've stopped counting)

i have a whole long list of memorable/noteworthy posts from last nite's discussion . . . IMO it would be worthwhile to read all the pages.

[henry]

okay . . . another small :patriot: question . . . if a military person, while on base, calls 911 . . . what will happen?

[crymeariver2006]

I would think that the call would be answered by MP's, but I don't know that for a fact.

Maybe they use a different # than 911?

:shrug:

[henry]

hah . . . it's great (not really :( ) talking to myself in the early morning hours. a line from nelkirk's really stuck out at me (among many - thank you) . . . here's the quote: "Why didn't she take responsibility for herself and make the reports? Is it because we as parents fail to prepare our children for the world cold hostile that lurks outside the warm loving home we have created for them?"

as to maria - i don't know - fear, harrassment imo. but the next sentence is the real wow and has always been, at least my dealings with teenagers, problems, parents . . . a real big issue in today's society (OT - a teenage girl in our area just was arrested for stabbing an acquaintance 'cause they called her "ugly")
IMO MOO

edit: . . . hi crymeariver! didn't see you typing - sorry! . . . and i think i forgot to refresh the page . . . woops!

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by henry
hah . . . it's great (not really :( ) talking to myself in the early morning hours. a line from nelkirk's really stuck out at me (among many - thank you) . . . here's the quote: "Why didn't she take responsibility for herself and make the reports? Is it because we as parents fail to prepare our children for the world cold hostile that lurks outside the warm loving home we have created for them?"

as to maria - i don't know - fear, harrassment imo. but the next sentence is the real wow and has always been, at least my dealings with teenagers, problems, parents . . . a real big issue in today's society (OT - a teenage girl in our area just was arrested for stabbing an acquaintance 'cause they called her "ugly")
IMO MOO

edit: . . . hi crymeariver! didn't see you typing - sorry! . . . and i think i forgot to refresh the page . . . woops! [/*]

Good Morning henry. Don't know what Mary did or did not teach Maria, but I do think there are some major problems in society and the way that children are being raised now. IMHO, We need to backpeddle and figure out where we went wrong.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by AJandTam


Good Morning henry. Don't know what Mary did or did not teach Maria, but I do think there are some major problems in society and the way that children are being raised now. IMHO, We need to backpeddle and figure out where we went wrong. [/*]

Hey Tam good to see you! :seeya:

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Hey Tam good to see you! :seeya: [/*]


:seeya: Good Morning Savannah. Good to see you as well.

This stinking guy is hiding good, isn't he??

[henry]

Originally posted by AJandTam


Good Morning henry. Don't know what Mary did or did not teach Maria, but I do think there are some major problems in society and the way that children are being raised now. IMHO, We need to backpeddle and figure out where we went wrong. [/*]

welcome back (marching band playing in the background) . . . i was thinking more along the lines of cesar & his mother !!!

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by henry


welcome back (marching band playing in the background) . . . i was thinking more along the lines of cesar & his mother !!! [/*]

Ahhhhhh thanks henry.

You got a point. Something bad wrong w/Cesar.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
Well too late to edit the above, now that I am post-coffee I can be a little more clear- what i was saying was today there is no sanctity for human life anymore (disposeable women and kids, drive by shootings, gang stabbings, girls killing girls over BOYS (!)
AND no respect for the property of others as evidenced by busted out windows, graffiti laden cities and trains, people just dropping trash wherever they feel like it. Its such a different world and I don't mean a change for the better.

Good Morning :seeya: All I hve to do is work 2 hrs today then go to a care plan meeting at the nursing home and I am home for the rest of the day. [/*]


:beer: You are right Annie. I don't really know if it is even possible to fix what is happening now. One generation can't fix the next if they themselves don't know what's right and what's wrong. Sad but true.

I am afraid to say my docket is clear today. The last time I said that, things did not go well.

Where is Sami?

[henry]

Originally posted by AJandTam



:beer: You are right Annie. I don't really know if it is even possible to fix what is happening now. One generation can't fix the next if they themselves don't know what's right and what's wrong. Sad but true.

I am afraid to say my docket is clear today. The last time I said that, things did not go well.

Where is Sami? [/*]

hah . . . i was ready to do the today show imitation . . . where in the world is aj&t . . . now it can be sami!

i'm hoping that today's generation will wake up (all caps) & see what's happening . . . i know i send my kids all kinds of emails . . . about what can happen & does happen.

i just hope xtina's child will be raised to know right from wrong . . . jmo

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by henry
hah . . . it's great (not really :( ) talking to myself in the early morning hours. a line from nelkirk's really stuck out at me (among many - thank you) . . . here's the quote: "Why didn't she take responsibility for herself and make the reports? Is it because we as parents fail to prepare our children for the world cold hostile that lurks outside the warm loving home we have created for them?"

as to maria - i don't know - fear, harrassment imo. but the next sentence is the real wow and has always been, at least my dealings with teenagers, problems, parents . . . a real big issue in today's society (OT - a teenage girl in our area just was arrested for stabbing an acquaintance 'cause they called her "ugly")
IMO MOO

edit: . . . hi crymeariver! didn't see you typing - sorry! . . . and i think i forgot to refresh the page . . . woops! [/*]

LOL, oh how easy it seems to blame the victim and then the parents who raised her. How about blaming the people who made the judgement that cesar laurean wasn't a threat to Maria and also that he wasn't a flight risk, that would be the marines.

I agree with those saying this entire incident has the unpleasant aroma of a huge cover up. IMO.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by henry


hah . . . i was ready to do the today show imitation . . . where in the world is aj&t . . . now it can be sami!

i'm hoping that today's generation will wake up (all caps) & see what's happening . . . i know i send my kids all kinds of emails . . . about what can happen & does happen.

i just hope xtina's child will be raised to know right from wrong . . . jmo [/*]

Hehee. you are the cutest. I miss Sami. Hope she turns up for her morning show appearance.

Yes, I try to be very real w/my children as well. I prefer not to send them into the world believing the world has thier back so to speak.

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by AJandTam


Ahhhhhh thanks henry.

You got a point. Something bad wrong w/Cesar. [/*]

About time you rolled back in, missed you. Hope the
gang and you have completely recovered. :seeya:

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


LOL, oh how easy it seems to blame the victim and then the parents who raised her. How about blaming the people who made the judgement that cesar laurean wasn't a threat to Maria and also that he wasn't a flight risk, that would be the marines.

I agree with those saying this entire incident has the unpleasant aroma of a huge cover up. IMO. [/*]

:seeya: Reggie...Hugs girl.

I do respect your victims advocate status. I think you wonderful in your fight for victims. However, i'm not in total agreement w/you. Although, I do believe that he/she/they had no right to do to Maria what was done to her. I also think that everyone reguardless of who it is. Needs to be aware of how their own actions could lead to thier own demise. It would be absolutely awesome if people didn't kill each other but the reality is, they do. And some situations make you more likely to become a victim. Getting involved w/married people. Drugs, and other unsavory behavior. In this case, IF and I say IF she went to the home of this married couple. She was infact, setting herself up for big trouble. Some things in life you are better to avoid. I do believe we would be better off as a society if we were honest w/our children about what kind of trouble lurks in the darkness.

As for the LE and the Marines in this case. Yes, I think they failed to handle things right. So no disagreement there.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


About time you rolled back in, missed you. Hope the
gang and you have completely recovered. :seeya: [/*]

Thanks Reggie. We are all better and so far so good on the series of other mishaps that have been aggrivating the heck out of us. One more thing and I was going under the bed to hide, I tell ya.

[henry]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


LOL, oh how easy it seems to blame the victim and then the parents who raised her. How about blaming the people who made the judgement that cesar laurean wasn't a threat to Maria and also that he wasn't a flight risk, that would be the marines.

I agree with those saying this entire incident has the unpleasant aroma of a huge cover up. IMO. [/*]

good morning . . . hope you read further down the post line.

edit . . . and i don't think it's a LOL matter . . . jmo

[henry]

Originally posted by Chicky
Snipped:

"Getting involved w/married people."
_______________________________

I don't think it was Maria's responsibility to make sure before she was raped that her rapist was not married.

JMO [/*]

good morning chicky! don't think i've ever seen a snipped post without who it's from, IMO . . . can you let us know who said that & in what context? thanks.

edit AB . . . please do some cleaning today!

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Chicky
Snipped:

"Getting involved w/married people."
_______________________________

I don't think it was Maria's responsibility to make sure before she was raped that her rapist was not married.

JMO [/*]

Chicky. I'm a bit behind. Last I heard, we didn't know the actual nature of the relationship. If Maria were the victim of a rape, then I couldn't agree w/you more. When I left off, we really didn't know what the deal was w/her and Cesar but the way it was looking. It looked like maybe they were involved in some type of affair and she went willingly to that residence on that fateful day. Depending on what the real truth is, you could very well be right.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AJandTam


:seeya: Reggie...Hugs girl.

I do respect your victims advocate status. I think you wonderful in your fight for victims. However, i'm not in total agreement w/you. Although, I do believe that he/she/they had no right to do to Maria what was done to her. I also think that everyone reguardless of who it is. Needs to be aware of how their own actions could lead to thier own demise. It would be absolutely awesome if people didn't kill each other but the reality is, they do. And some situations make you more likely to become a victim. Getting involved w/married people. Drugs, and other unsavory behavior. In this case, IF and I say IF she went to the home of this married couple. She was infact, setting herself up for big trouble. Some things in life you are better to avoid. I do believe we would be better off as a society if we were honest w/our children about what kind of trouble lurks in the darkness.

As for the LE and the Marines in this case. Yes, I think they failed to handle things right. So no disagreement there. [/*]

Well said Tam, and it's really about a pro-active approach we as parents and mentors can take. What else is there left to do?

I was watching a clip on women lying on CBS yesterday and saw where some women don't like to admit their own mistakes and pain of the past to their children.

I was thinking "HELLO, do you want your children to suffer or do you want to help prevent that by empowering them with KNOWLEDGE?"

We have to get back to basics and personal responsibilty is KEY IMO. :(

JMO

I am glad to hear you are feeling better and that the family is on the mend.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by AJandTam


Ahhhhhh thanks henry.

You got a point. Something bad wrong w/Cesar. [/*]


Good morning Tam! Good to see you back.

Something bad / wrong with Cesar? Isn't that the understatement of the year lol? He sure doesn't have any respect for women what with his cheating, raping, murdering actions imo. I also can't help but think about little Gabriel who was more than likely his son. He didn't care about him either did he? Makes me wonder what life was like growing up in his home as a child. Ontop of that imo he is a coward on the run and a disgrace to the Marines.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Well said Tam, and it's really about a pro-active approach we as parents and mentors can take. What else is there left to do?

I was watching a clip on women lying on CBS yesterday and saw where some women don't like to admit their own mistakes and pain of the past to their children.

I was thinking "HELLO, do you want your children to suffer or do you want to help prevent that by empowering them with KNOWLEDGE?"

We have to get back to basics and personal responsibilty is KEY IMO. :(

JMO

I am glad to hear you are feeling better and that the family is on the mend. [/*]

:seeya: Candy. Thank you. I am a realist and a very firm believer in personal responsiblity for ones actions, and definately teach my children to be as well. We have to use good judgement ourselves if we don't want to walk into trouble. In a perfect world we could walk down any street in the world at any time of the day and be safe. But the reality is. You can't just have the attitude that you have the right to walk down that street and if anything happens to you. Well it's the other guys fault. Unfortunately who's fault it really is, doesn't help you much if you are dead. The reality is, sometimes our own bad judgement gets us into trouble.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Chicky
Snipped from AJandTam's post :

"Getting involved w/married people."
_______________________________

I don't think it was Maria's responsibility to make sure before she was raped that her rapist was not married.

JMO [/*]

Mornin' :seeya:

It's the old women blaming/hating women thing. Some would rather blame Maria, her mom, Christina, rather than real criminal who raped, murdered, coldly buried the bodies, desecrated them, tried to clean up, then ran like the coward he is. But he is kind of cute, isn't he.barf

[caejde]

Originally posted by bkwits


Mornin' :seeya:

It's the old women blaming/hating women thing. Some would rather blame Maria, her mom, Christina, rather than real criminal who raped, murdered, coldly buried the bodies, desecrated them, tried to clean up, then ran like the coward he is. But he is kind of cute, isn't he.barf [/*]

I have said plenty of times that the only person to blame is Cesar and anyone else that helped him with the murder, cleanup, escape, hiding. He is the only one to blame.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



Good morning Tam! Good to see you back.

Something bad / wrong with Cesar? Isn't that the understatement of the year lol? He sure doesn't have any respect for women what with his cheating, raping, murdering actions imo. I also can't help but think about little Gabriel who was more than likely his son. He didn't care about him either did he? Makes me wonder what life was like growing up in his home as a child. Ontop of that imo he is a coward on the run and a disgrace to the Marines. [/*]

Thank you Sherlock. Nice to see you as well.

Nope, Cesar is all about Cesar. What's sad is that no one can find him before he racks up yet another victim. This is the type of person who is obviously a threat to others. It's not just about justice for Maria. It's about saving someone else from becoming a victim too. He's evil.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Chicky


No, none of us know for sure if there was a rape. Just like none of us know there wasn't a rape.

Maria made a rape allegation against CL.
I believe her. I also believe there was never an "affair" between them.

JMO [/*]

I really can't argue w/ya either way Chicky. I really don't know what the truth is. To me it seems like the real truth could be either way. At least that's how it seems w/what information we have at this point.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Chicky


By the way, welcome back.:seeya:

I find any posts about Maria or her family's responsibility offensive at this point. Actually, I would find it offensive at any point given Maria and Gabriel's death at the hands of CL.

JMO [/*]


Thank you Chicky. Sorry if my opinion is offensive. It's just my perspective on life and becoming a victim. It does not necessarrily reflect what happened in this case, as i'm speaking in general because I do not know what happened in this case. If that makes any sense at all.

[henry]

Originally posted by Chicky


By the way, welcome back.:seeya:

I find any posts about Maria or her family's responsibility offensive at this point. Actually, I would find it offensive at any point given Maria and Gabriel's death at the hands of CL.

JMO [/*]

and, if i notice/read correctly, the posts were not in the "blame" mode until a poster used that term . . . but rather from a different perspective. IMO

[Sherlocksmom]

I see Lynn posted on the links page that the reward for CL is now over $45,000.00 now. This is excellent news!


Lynn Gweeny
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 3587
The total reward for Laurean's capture from all sources is up to $45,742

Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown in February asking for reward funds in the Laurean case, Effron said. The reward for Laurean's capture is steadily climbing - through both official and unofficial sources:

The FBI is offering $25,000 ... Crime Stoppers of Onslow County-Camp Lejeune has offered to pay up to $2,500 ... Brown has pledged $500 out of his own pocket ... Pledges that have come into the Sheriff's Department total $5,000 ... Rewardpost.com is offering $7,742

http://www.jdnews.com/news/laurean_...eward_f06e.html

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AJandTam


:seeya: Candy. Thank you. I am a realist and a very firm believer in personal responsiblity for ones actions, and definately teach my children to be as well. We have to use good judgement ourselves if we don't want to walk into trouble. In a perfect world we could walk down any street in the world at any time of the day and be safe. But the reality is. You can't just have the attitude that you have the right to walk down that street and if anything happens to you. Well it's the other guys fault. Unfortunately who's fault it really is, doesn't help you much if you are dead. The reality is, sometimes our own bad judgement gets us into trouble. [/*]

Sadly, you are correct Tam. We no longer live in a society where life is good and you are free to enjoy life to the fullest from my POV. We have to be on guard and practice personal safety in all actions we take now, and maybe it was really that way from the start. I'm glad to know there are others practicing pro-active personal responsibility with their children as well.

You still can't be totally safe, but not tempting fate is a step in the right direction.

I'm glad you aren't afraid to speak your mind because until we start talking about it, this remains a source of contention IMO.

There is a significant difference between blaming the victim and looking at the case as a whole to determine where it went wrong and how this tragedy came to be from my POV. Again, this is where victimology is an up and coming tool for all of us.

To deny that any of the people involved in this tragedy didn't have a role is denying the truth IMO. The only one who truly had no role was the unborn child who never took a breath.

Time will tell, but I am anxiously awaiting the release of more information as well as the capture of Cesar Laurean.

JMO.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde


I have said plenty of times that the only person to blame is Cesar and anyone else that helped him with the murder, cleanup, escape, hiding. He is the only one to blame. [/*]

That's not good enough caejde, and truly I am sorry there is a concentrated effort to deny anything that could have contributed to this tragedy and anyone who speaks out.

I feel you are a pretty fair minded poster who comes with an open mind.

JMO.:patriot:

IF indeed Cesar is the killer in this case, then he needs to face Lady Justice and deal with his consequences, because no matter what, MURDER is never the answer.

[caejde]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


That's not good enough caejde, and truly I am sorry there is a concentrated effort to deny anything that could have contributed to this tragedy and anyone who speaks out.

I feel you are a pretty fair minded poster who comes with an open mind.

JMO.:patriot:

IF indeed Cesar is the killer in this case, then he needs to face Lady Justice and deal with his consequences, because no matter what, MURDER is never the answer. [/*]

Well, I just don't see why people finger point and say "If the Marines would have done this, Maria wouldn't have died." It's if this and if that. There are so many "ifs" in this case and so many unknowns--at least to us. My only point is that regardless of who killed Maria and her baby, that murderer had a decision to make and whoever did it chose the easy way out. I think the killer could be Cesar or Christina or both.

[henry]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

LOL, oh how easy it seems to blame the victim and then the parents who raised her.

snip for shortness


chicky . . . this is what i'm referring to . . . nothing prior was said blaming the victim . . . call me confused also. JMO

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by AJandTam


Chicky. I'm a bit behind. Last I heard, we didn't know the actual nature of the relationship. If Maria were the victim of a rape, then I couldn't agree w/you more. When I left off, we really didn't know what the deal was w/her and Cesar but the way it was looking. It looked like maybe they were involved in some type of affair and she went willingly to that residence on that fateful day. Depending on what the real truth is, you could very well be right. [/*]

I certainly understand what you are saying about personal responsibility Tam and respect that view. I am just very tired of those pointing to Maria and now her parents, as having any responsibility for her murder. That responsibility lies with the stellar marine, cesar laurean.

Until such a time as substantiated facts actually show that Maria and her family had a part in her murder, I am offended by the thought, no matter how subtle the insinuation is, that they did.

You do know that according to friends of Maria iirc, she did not know laurean was married. When she learned of that fact I think she ended the relationship. That, imo, is when laurean refused to take no for an answer. I believe Maria.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Sadly, you are correct Tam. We no longer live in a society where life is good and you are free to enjoy life to the fullest from my POV. We have to be on guard and practice personal safety in all actions we take now, and maybe it was really that way from the start. I'm glad to know there are others practicing pro-active personal responsibility with their children as well.

You still can't be totally safe, but not tempting fate is a step in the right direction.

I'm glad you aren't afraid to speak your mind because until we start talking about it, this remains a source of contention IMO.

There is a significant difference between blaming the victim and looking at the case as a whole to determine where it went wrong and how this tragedy came to be from my POV. Again, this is where victimology is an up and coming tool for all of us.

To deny that any of the people involved in this tragedy didn't have a role is denying the truth IMO. The only one who truly had no role was the unborn child who never took a breath.

Time will tell, but I am anxiously awaiting the release of more information as well as the capture of Cesar Laurean.

JMO. [/*]

Candy. I think you and I are on the same page w/this. I don't always think that we are going in the right direction in personal responsiblity and I do often find myself at odds w/others on this issue. In my way of thinking. If I am on someone elses property and I fall in a hole and break my leg. I"m not the type of person who would blame the home owner and sue. IMHO, it's my fault that I broke my leg cause I was the one not watching where I was going. Like it or not. We can't just do what we want to do and not have any consequences. Life just doesn't work like that. Personally, I think the 10 commandments are genius. It's true reguardless of what your religious beliefs are. The things listed do infact, bring the wrath upon you if you violate them.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde


Well, I just don't see why people finger point and say "If the Marines would have done this, Maria wouldn't have died." It's if this and if that. There are so many "ifs" in this case and so many unknowns--at least to us. My only point is that regardless of who killed Maria and her baby, that murderer had a decision to make and whoever did it chose the easy way out. I think the killer could be Cesar or Christina or both. [/*]

Yes Caejde, I understand your point and agree. I am not an advocate of just blaming deep pockets and never have been.

IF I fail to tell the authorities I am afraid of someone and I don't have a cohesive story as to why, how is it their fault?

I just don't understand that.

JMO.:(

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by henry


good morning . . . hope you read further down the post line.

edit . . . and i don't think it's a LOL matter . . . jmo [/*]

I don't either, the LOL was in reference to the thought posted that Maria and her parents were responsible in some way for her murder. IMO.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AJandTam


Candy. I think you and I are on the same page w/this. I don't always think that we are going in the right direction in personal responsiblity and I do often find myself at odds w/others on this issue. In my way of thinking. If I am on someone elses property and I fall in a hole and break my leg. I"m not the type of person who would blame the home owner and sue. IMHO, it's my fault that I broke my leg cause I was the one not watching where I was going. Like it or not. We can't just do what we want to do and not have any consequences. Life just doesn't work like that. Personally, I think the 10 commandments are genius. It's true reguardless of what your religious beliefs are. The things listed do infact, bring the wrath upon you if you violate them. [/*]

ITA there Tam, and just above I said similar about looking for someone to blame.

I can't hold the authorities accountable for not being pro-active when they appear to have been given answers that say she was not afraid, was not coerced, was not forced......

Where is their responsibility in this? IF I see anything given what we know at this point, I might say they should have brought closure to the rape allegations. IOW, if there wasn't enough to bring charges, they could have put a stop to it and I am not so sure that wasn't in the works anyway GIVEN that we know NCIS confirmed Maria was possibly facing a discharge.

JMO

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


I certainly understand what you are saying about personal responsibility Tam and respect that view. I am just very tired of those pointing to Maria and now her parents, as having any responsibility for her murder. That responsibility lies with the stellar marine, cesar laurean.

Until such a time as substantiated facts actually show that Maria and her family had a part in her murder, I am offended by the thought, no matter how subtle the insinuation is, that they did.

You do know that according to friends of Maria iirc, she did not know laurean was married. When she learned of that fact I think she ended the relationship. That, imo, is when laurean refused to take no for an answer. I believe Maria. [/*]

You know Reggie. IMHO, I think it's a bit unfair that the nature of this relationship has been left so up in the air. I think people are speculating both ways as they really don't know what was going on. I think that's fair, that both sides get to make thier arguments. No matter what others are speculating about. It has no impact on what the real truth is. The real truth will be what it is no matter what we think. JMO.

[AJandTam]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


ITA there Tam, and just above I said similar about looking for someone to blame.

I can't hold the authorities accountable for not being pro-active when they appear to have been given answers that say she was not afraid, was not coerced, was not forced......

Where is their responsibility in this? IF I see anything given what we know at this point, I might say they should have brought closure to the rape allegations. IOW, if there wasn't enough to bring charges, they could have put a stop to it and I am not so sure that wasn't in the works anyway GIVEN that we know NCIS confirmed Maria was possibly facing a discharge.

JMO [/*]

I am a bit off w/you on that one, as I think the investigation into her disappearance could have been much better than it was. As for the rape. I lean toward agreeing w/you on that one. I'm not sure that a case could have been made either.

[AJandTam]

Gotta go shower and make some phone calls. Hopefully, I can check in later.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AJandTam


I am a bit off w/you on that one, as I think the investigation into her disappearance could have been much better than it was. As for the rape. I lean toward agreeing w/you on that one. I'm not sure that a case could have been made either. [/*]

I respect your opinion on that Tam. I have many times over said I felt there should be a SPECIAL ALERT similar to the AMBER ALERT or incorporated that covers women who are pregnant with a viable fetus.

That said, I mean even if Maria left that note, and Mary was brutally honest, MARIA WAS TO BE VIEWED AS A YOUNG MOTHER AT RISK leaving a note like that and thinking about what could have been going on IF SHE COULD NOT TAKE MARINE life anymore. :(

Either way, she was at risk from the onset IMHO, and I would encourage anything added to Amber Alerts to address the welfare of the unborn but viable fetuses out there and the women carrying them.

JMO tho and I know it isn't popular. :patriot:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by AJandTam


:seeya: Reggie...Hugs girl.

I do respect your victims advocate status. I think you wonderful in your fight for victims. However, i'm not in total agreement w/you. Although, I do believe that he/she/they had no right to do to Maria what was done to her. I also think that everyone regardless of who it is. Needs to be aware of how their own actions could lead to their own demise. It would be absolutely awesome if people didn't kill each other but the reality is, they do. And some situations make you more likely to become a victim. Getting involved w/married people. Drugs, and other unsavory behavior. In this case, IF and I say IF she went to the home of this married couple. She was in fact, setting herself up for big trouble. Some things in life you are better to avoid. I do believe we would be better off as a society if we were honest w/our children about what kind of trouble lurks in the darkness.

As for the LE and the Marines in this case. Yes, I think they failed to handle things right. So no disagreement there. [/*]

Good Morning Tam and so glad to see you back again!

I have never understood why some insist that the victim is been bashed. Not one person on this board has ever said that Maria or Gabriel deserved what happened to them because the simple honest truth is they DIDN'T. Looking at the decisions made by the victim is not bashing them......the court will also bring these things forward as they set out what Maria and Cesar did and when. A court case is filled with decisions made by both the victim and defendant. They must try to explain to the jury how these two came to be together that day and what may have led up to that.

But if we are honest with ourselves we aware that there had to be some grave misjudgments made that placed Maria in a very dangerous situation and environment.

Under the circumstances that Maria's family was aware as happening with Maria does anyone here really think they would have thought it a wise decision for Maria to go to the very home of her supposed rapist? It isn't blaming her for anything but it is obvious imo she made a very poor decision where their two worlds collided. I have taught our children personal responsibility all of their lives. I am proud of that.......not ashamed because when taught they know it is their own decisions that can deeply effect their own lives and that of others. I tell them to exercises caution and make well thought out decisions.

To hide the truth is deceitful imo. We are interested in crimes and we must know ALL about each one involved. I am not blaming Maria but as we know it now Maria came to his home willingly on her own and that decision rightly or wrongly is very monumental in this case. We have no knowledge that there was any unrest between the two on base or even contact and the MPO was never violated. What we know now is she came there to his home on 12-14 and that is when all of the horrible things were done to Maria and Gabriel.

I think that will be THE one nagging question that continues to resonate with many even if he is brought back to trial. We may never have the answer why she decided to come there. But I do believe that LE thinks she did because we are 55 days out and still no charges of Kidnapping.

So the truth can be brutal but if it turns out to be true and imo it will and she came there to his own home on her own accord for whatever reason it is that very unwise decision that ignited the firestorm imo.

imoo

[donna]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Good Morning Tam and so glad to see you back again!

I have never understood why some insist that the victim is been bashed. Not one person on this board has ever said that Maria or Gabriel deserved what happened to them because the simple honest truth is they DIDN'T. Looking at the decisions made by the victim is not bashing them......the court will also bring these things forward as they set out what Maria and Cesar did and when. A court case is filled with decisions made by both the victim and defendant. They must try to explain to the jury how these two came to be together that day and what may have led up to that.

But if we are honest with ourselves we aware that there had to be some grave misjudgments made that placed Maria in a very dangerous situation and environment.

Under the circumstances that Maria's family was aware as happening with Maria does anyone here really think they would have thought it a wise decision for Maria to go to the very home of her supposed rapist? It isn't blaming her for anything but it is obvious imo she made a very poor decision where their two worlds collided. I have taught our children personal responsibility all of their lives. I am proud of that.......not ashamed because when taught they know it is their own decisions that can deeply effect their own lives and that of others. I tell them to exercises caution and make well thought out decisions.

To hide the truth is deceitful imo. We are interested in crimes and we must know ALL about each one involved. I am not blaming Maria but as we know it now Maria came to his home willingly on her own and that decision rightly or wrongly is very monumental in this case. We have no knowledge that there was any unrest between the two on base or even contact and the MPO was never violated. What we know now is she came there to his home on 12-14 and that is when all of the horrible things were done to Maria and Gabriel.

I think that will be THE one nagging question that continues to resonate with many even if he is brought back to trial. We may never have the answer why she decided to come there. But I do believe that LE thinks she did because we are 55 days out and still no charges of Kidnapping.

So the truth can be brutal but if it turns out to be true and imo it will and she came there to his own home on her own accord for whatever reason it is that very unwise decision that ignited the firestorm imo.

imoo [/*]

:seeya: ... Good Morning, everyone! Finally over the flu!

GentleBreeze, your post is amazing and I could not leave a single word out. I totally agree with you!

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


(snipped)

Under the circumstances that Maria's family was aware as happening with Maria does anyone here really think they would have thought it a wise decision for Maria to go to the very home of her supposed rapist? It isn't blaming her for anything but it is obvious imo she made a very poor decision where their two worlds collided. I have taught our children personal responsibility all of their lives. I am proud of that.......not ashamed because when taught they know it is their own decisions that can deeply effect their own lives and that of others. I tell them to exercises caution and make well thought out decisions.

To hide the truth is deceitful imo. We are interested in crimes and we must know ALL about each one involved. I am not blaming Maria but as we know it now Maria came to his home willingly on her own and that decision rightly or wrongly is very monumental in this case. We have no knowledge that there was any unrest between the two on base or even contact and the MPO was never violated. What we know now is she came there to his home on 12-14 and that is when all of the horrible things were done to Maria and Gabriel.

I think that will be THE one nagging question that continues to resonate with many even if he is brought back to trial. We may never have the answer why she decided to come there. But I do believe that LE thinks she did because we are 55 days out and still no charges of Kidnapping.

So the truth can be brutal but if it turns out to be true and imo it will and she came there to his own home on her own accord for whatever reason it is that very unwise decision that ignited the firestorm imo.

imoo [/*]

Is it a verified FACT that Maria went to laurean's home WILLINGLY? I don't think so.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by donna


:seeya: ... Good Morning, everyone! Finally over the flu!

GentleBreeze, your post is amazing and I could not leave a single word out. I totally agree with you! [/*]

Good Morning Donna!

TY......what a nice way to start out the morning.

We must never hide or run from the truth........when that happens truth is never learned.

imoo:seeya:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


Is it a verified FACT that Maria went to laurean's home WILLINGLY? I don't think so. [/*]

No where did I say that anything was a verified fact.

The only fact that bolsters it very much imo is he has NOT been charged with Kidnapping and IMO he will not be. They are through indicting him.

imo

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by Chicky


AJ, I believe in personal responsibility too.

I believe in anyone taking what precautions they can not to become victims. This could be walking to their car in a parking lot and being aware of those around you while having the keys to your car in hand to open the car door in a timely manner. This is one example and this is what victimology has to do with. It is for professionals to use and information for civilian classes to be made aware.

This has nothing to do with who you might pick to have a relationship with.

It does not automatically follow that an affair with a married man will end in your death.

JMO [/*]

I agree with you Chick, and should a woman be found murdered by that married man I think it's ridiculous to then blame her for her own murder. It's amazing to me just how far some will go to remove blame from the actual murderers. Especially if the victim is a woman and the murderer is a male. IMO.

[donna]

I would also like to say that when and if this case ever comes to trial, we are likely going to hear things about it that we will not like.

Also, I am not so sure anymore that CAL is even alive.

Christina, IMO, had to know that something horrible had happened in her home. Just because she has not been charged with anything certainly does not mean that she never will be. LE will not, IMO, put blinders on and say that Christina will never be charged with anything. They will leave their options open.

No one has been cleared in this case yet.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Good Morning Donna!

TY......what a nice way to start out the morning.

We must never hide or run from the truth........when that happens truth is never learned.

imoo:seeya: [/*]

:patriot: Very well stated. :patriot:

I agree with Donna, your post was very well thought out and spoke to the truth of the matter from the first word to the last. Thank you for your insightful contributions here GB.

JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by donna
I would also like to say that when and if this case ever comes to trial, we are likely going to hear things about it that we will not like.

Also, I am not so sure anymore that CAL is even alive.

Christina, IMO, had to know that something horrible had happened in her home. Just because she has not been charged with anything certainly does not mean that she never will be. LE will not, IMO, put blinders on and say that Christina will never be charged with anything. They will leave their options open.

No one has been cleared in this case yet. [/*]

You better believe it and the lack of a kidnapping charge coupled with the status of Christina is enough to make me know that donna. I continue to say the twists and turns have only just begun. JMO.:(

[donna]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


I agree with you Chick, and should a woman be found murdered by that married man I think it's ridiculous to then blame her for her own murder. It's amazing to me just how far some will go to remove blame from the actual murderers. Especially if the victim is a woman and the murderer is a male. IMO. [/*]

With all due respect, Regina, I do not think anyone is saying this. I certainly am not and never will say it.

CAL (and maybe Christina) is/are to blame for Maria and Gabriel's death.

[strick10]

Originally posted by donna


:seeya: ... Good Morning, everyone! Finally over the flu!

GentleBreeze, your post is amazing and I could not leave a single word out. I totally agree with you! [/*]

I second Donnas' comment.

Glad you're over the flu Donna.

[donna]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Good Morning Donna!

TY......what a nice way to start out the morning.

We must never hide or run from the truth........when that happens truth is never learned.

imoo:seeya: [/*]

You are welcome, GB! The truth is the most important thing, no matter which way it falls!

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


No where did I say that anything was a verified fact.

The only fact that bolsters it very much imo is he has NOT been charged with Kidnapping and IMO he will not be. They are through indicting him.

imo [/*]

No, you didn't but it sure does change the equation in the question you posed about the family of Maria, imo:

Under the circumstances that Maria's family was aware as happening with Maria does anyone here really think they would have thought it a wise decision for Maria to go to the very home of her supposed rapist?

IMO, I do not think LE has limited themselves as to how many charges will eventually be filed against this killer. The investigation is ongoing afterall, is it not?

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by donna


With all due respect, Regina, I do not think anyone is saying this. I certainly am not and never will say it.

CAL (and maybe Christina) is/are to blame for Maria and Gabriel's death. [/*]

I am very glad to hear you say that Donna. As for the other matter, I think the posts speak for themselves.

[donna]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


You better believe it and the lack of a kidnapping charge coupled with the status of Christina is enough to make me know that donna. I continue to say the twists and turns have only just begun. JMO.:( [/*]

Exactly!

[nuttintodo]

Lynn, our most gracious link queen, can you find the article about the wire transfers that CAL did in Houston?

TIA

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by donna
I would also like to say that when and if this case ever comes to trial, we are likely going to hear things about it that we will not like.

Also, I am not so sure anymore that CAL is even alive.

Christina, IMO, had to know that something horrible had happened in her home. Just because she has not been charged with anything certainly does not mean that she never will be. LE will not, IMO, put blinders on and say that Christina will never be charged with anything. They will leave their options open.

No one has been cleared in this case yet. [/*]

I agree Donna. If there is a trial all of these things are going to come out. We cannot just close our ears to what we don't want to hear and hear only what we want to hear. The jury, like us, will want to know how these two people came to be together that day and what decisions were made to cause that to happen.

We must know the truth.........all the truth whatever it may be.

imoo

[donna]

Originally posted by strick10


I second Donnas' comment.

Glad you're over the flu Donna. [/*]

Thank you, strick10! It was rough, tho!

[donna]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I agree Donna. If there is a trial all of these things are going to come out. We cannot just close our ears to what we don't want to hear and hear only what we want to hear. The jury, like us, will want to know how these two people came to be together that day and what decisions were made to cause that to happen.

We must know the truth.........all the truth whatever it may be.

imoo [/*]

I agree, GB! Maria and Gabriel deserve for the truth to come out. After all, LE follows the evidence whether it is popular or not.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


:patriot: Very well stated. :patriot:

I agree with Donna, your post was very well thought out and spoke to the truth of the matter from the first word to the last. Thank you for your insightful contributions here GB.

JMO [/*]

Good Morning Mrs. Candy!

Thank you very much.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Lynn, our most gracious link queen, can you find the article about the wire transfers that CAL did in Houston?

TIA [/*]

Good Morning Nuttin!

Are you feeling better each day? I sure hope so.

imoo:seeya:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by donna


:seeya: ... Good Morning, everyone! Finally over the flu!

GentleBreeze, your post is amazing and I could not leave a single word out. I totally agree with you! [/*]

Donna glad to see you are feeling much better! That flu is horrible and I hope you don't develop pneumonia like I did. :rose:

Did you see my response to your question last night (about the note and SB saying that the info in the note wasn't factual)?

If you didn't here is what I type along with the link to the article:

Is this what you are looking for donna?

Rumors began circulating Friday that the Sheriff's Department had a note that Laurean's wife supplied a note to investigators saying that Lauterbach took her own life, but Brown said the note was too inconsistent with the facts in the case to be believed, and his investigators had already discredited several parts of the note.

"I can say this, that note is three-fourths wrong," Brown said.

In fact, just about the only factual thing in the note was that Lauterbach was dead, Brown said. The note claimed she killed herself and Cesar Laurean had only buried her, Brown said. The note also was wrong about where on the property the body was buried.


http://www.jdnews.com/articles/_543...cle.html/_.html

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Good Morning Nuttin!

Are you feeling better each day? I sure hope so.

imoo:seeya: [/*]

Yes I am...today has been good so far! TY for asking. :seeya:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


I am very glad to hear you say that Donna. As for the other matter, I think the posts speak for themselves. [/*]

You mean like this one?

GentleBreeze
"Not one person on this board has ever said that Maria or Gabriel deserved what happened to them because the simple honest truth is they DIDN'T.":shrug:

[donna]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Donna glad to see you are feeling much better! That flu is horrible and I hope you don't develop pneumonia like I did. :rose:

Did you see my response to your question last night (about the note and SB saying that the info in the note wasn't factual)?

If you didn't here is what I type along with the link to the article:

Is this what you are looking for donna?

Rumors began circulating Friday that the Sheriff's Department had a note that Laurean's wife supplied a note to investigators saying that Lauterbach took her own life, but Brown said the note was too inconsistent with the facts in the case to be believed, and his investigators had already discredited several parts of the note.

"I can say this, that note is three-fourths wrong," Brown said.

In fact, just about the only factual thing in the note was that Lauterbach was dead, Brown said. The note claimed she killed herself and Cesar Laurean had only buried her, Brown said. The note also was wrong about where on the property the body was buried.


http://www.jdnews.com/articles/_543...cle.html/_.html [/*]

Hi, nuttintodo! Thank you - I am so much better!

I read where you answered with that link just this morning. Thank you! It was exactly what I was looking for.

[donna]

Originally posted by dave sargent
:confused:

Am I dreaming or was there a "debate" as to Why one would need an OFFICIAL SOURCE before accepting a "Fact" moo???? I thought there was some misunderstanding as to why some Peeps need a Named Source or Officiall Source when some detail is printed/reported. Misinformation as MOO??? Maybe I was on another Board H-E-L-P! [/*]

Huh?

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by donna


With all due respect, Regina, I do not think anyone is saying this. I certainly am not and never will say it.

CAL (and maybe Christina) is/are to blame for Maria and Gabriel's death. [/*]

You're absolutely correct. NO ONE is saying that.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Good Morning Tam and so glad to see you back again!

I have never understood why some insist that the victim is been bashed. Not one person on this board has ever said that Maria or Gabriel deserved what happened to them because the simple honest truth is they DIDN'T. Looking at the decisions made by the victim is not bashing them......the court will also bring these things forward as they set out what Maria and Cesar did and when. A court case is filled with decisions made by both the victim and defendant. They must try to explain to the jury how these two came to be together that day and what may have led up to that.

But if we are honest with ourselves we aware that there had to be some grave misjudgments made that placed Maria in a very dangerous situation and environment.

Under the circumstances that Maria's family was aware as happening with Maria does anyone here really think they would have thought it a wise decision for Maria to go to the very home of her supposed rapist? It isn't blaming her for anything but it is obvious imo she made a very poor decision where their two worlds collided. I have taught our children personal responsibility all of their lives. I am proud of that.......not ashamed because when taught they know it is their own decisions that can deeply effect their own lives and that of others. I tell them to exercises caution and make well thought out decisions.

To hide the truth is deceitful imo. We are interested in crimes and we must know ALL about each one involved. I am not blaming Maria but as we know it now Maria came to his home willingly on her own and that decision rightly or wrongly is very monumental in this case. We have no knowledge that there was any unrest between the two on base or even contact and the MPO was never violated. What we know now is she came there to his home on 12-14 and that is when all of the horrible things were done to Maria and Gabriel.

I think that will be THE one nagging question that continues to resonate with many even if he is brought back to trial. We may never have the answer why she decided to come there. But I do believe that LE thinks she did because we are 55 days out and still no charges of Kidnapping.

So the truth can be brutal but if it turns out to be true and imo it will and she came there to his own home on her own accord for whatever reason it is that very unwise decision that ignited the firestorm imo.

imoo [/*]

:beer:

[donna]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


You're absolutely correct. NO ONE is saying that. [/*]

Thank you, SavannahStar.

We were all outraged that this had happened to Maria and Baby Gabriel. We want the murderer to be apprehended and tried for this horrific murder.

I do not think that anyone that has ever posted on this board has ever blamed Maria herself for her own murder, and I just do not understand how anyone could say that she has.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Good Morning Donna!

TY......what a nice way to start out the morning.

We must never hide or run from the truth........when that happens truth is never learned.

imoo:seeya: [/*]

But the only TRUTH we know is that Maria and Gabriel are dead, murdered, buried and burned, and Cesar Laurean is on the run.

So what truth are we running from?

[donna]

Originally posted by dave sargent



OOPS! I am so sorry. It was not on this board. PLEASE DISREGARD. [/*]

:seeya:

OK!

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by bkwits


But the only TRUTH we know is that Maria and Gabriel are dead, murdered, buried and burned, and Cesar Laurean is on the run.

So what truth are we running from? [/*]

Quite possibly the truth that brought them to that fateful today together at HIS HOUSE IMO.

If you don't acknowledge it, you don't learn from it IMHO.

I believe if LE had any inkling there was a question about her going to that house, we would have seen a kidnapping charge on the indictment, but we did not IIRC.

You want the USMC held accountable for thoughts you presume Maria had, but what are you going to do if she went there of her own accord and there is evidence produced to show so?

Then who would have been violating the MPO?:confused:

JMO

But, if Maria denied any fear or coercion and force, had the MPO and went over to his house of her own accord, then you can't deny she placed herself in a bad spot and evil was present and accounted for IMHO. Cesar was there and the makings beyond that, nobody knows.

I know way too many young people who use restraining orders when they want to, and violate them other times. It scares me because some judges are gun shy about authorizing them now and I fear the future in regard to those situations.

JMOOC.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by donna


Thank you, SavannahStar.

We were all outraged that this had happened to Maria and Baby Gabriel. We want the murderer to be apprehended and tried for this horrific murder.

I do not think that anyone that has ever posted on this board has ever blamed Maria herself for her own murder, and I just do not understand how anyone could say that she has. [/*]

ITA donna! Maria certainly did not ask for CAL to be her judge, jury and executioner. My sincere hope is that CAL is brought back to Jacksonville so he can have his day in court.

I feel sure that the good citizens of Onslow County will keep an open mind, listen to all the facts and find justice for Maria and Gabriel.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Lynn, our most gracious link queen, can you find the article about the wire transfers that CAL did in Houston?

TIA [/*]

Sorry for the delay, nuttin. So many trials coming up this next week and I'm trying to get all my links together and search for any updates. :seeya:

The source said Laurean received wire money transfers from Western Union before he left Houston, but would not say from whom. The money mainly went to pay Laurean's attorneys, the source added.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/22/missing.marine/


Authorities said in the accompanying affidavit that Cesar Laurean and his wife received a transfer of money between December 10 and January 12. The affidavit provided no other details.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/17/missing.marine/


Just to add, this was the Search Warrant info when authorities still believed that Maria was on unauthorized absence and just 'missing':

A search warrant released with the other documents Thursday seeks Western Union records, saying authorities have reason to believe Lauterbach may be receiving financial support through money transfers.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/10/missing.marine/

[donna]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Quite possibly the truth that brought them to that fateful today together at HIS HOUSE IMO.

If you don't acknowledge it, you don't learn from it IMHO.

I believe if LE had any inkling there was a question about her going to that house, we would have seen a kidnapping charge on the indictment, but we did not IIRC.

You want the USMC held accountable for thoughts you presume Maria had, but what are you going to do if she went there of her own accord and there is evidence produced to show so?

Then who would have been violating the MPO?:confused:

JMO

But, if Maria denied any fear or coercion and force, had the MPO and went over to his house of her own accord, then you can't deny she placed herself in a bad spot and evil was present and accounted for IMHO. Cesar was there and the makings beyond that, nobody knows.

I know way too many young people who use restraining orders when they want to, and violate them other times. It scares me because some judges are gun shy about authorizing them now and I fear the future in regard to those situations.

JMOOC. [/*]

I do not always agree with you, CANDYKISSES, but what you are saying makes sense. AND it is NOT victim bashing. It is also NOT taking up for a murderer either.

I have seen RO's violated by BOTH parties.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Lynn, our most gracious link queen, can you find the article about the wire transfers that CAL did in Houston?

TIA [/*]

I'm not Lynn, but I've been known to keep a few links close by!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/22/missing.marine/index.html

Laurean arrived in Houston before 5 p.m. January 12, a Saturday, the source said, adding that authorities have evidence that he made it to a bus station there. In Houston, Laurean mailed two more letters to his wife and bought a bus ticket costing about $170 from the Tornado Bus Company to San Luis Potosi, Mexico. The bus driver told authorities that Laurean identified himself as Armando Ramirez, the source said. Laurean probably arrived in Guadalajara Sunday, the source said. The source said Laurean received wire money transfers from Western Union before he left Houston, but would not say from whom.

"Sources" are not named, FWIW.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by bkwits


But the only TRUTH we know is that Maria and Gabriel are dead, murdered, buried and burned, and Cesar Laurean is on the run.

So what truth are we running from? [/*]



Exactly! How can anyone be running from the truth when nobody here knows what the truth is? Quite a double standard imo that some assume their opinions are the truth and those of us who don't agree with their opinions are running from the truth.

Then of course we have the "he would have already been charged with kidnapping" statement. Followed by "Christina isn't neccesarily innocent just because they haven't charged her yet".

Gotta love the double standards here lol. :biggrin:

[nuttintodo]

THANK YOU Lynn!! That is just what I needed!!

I hope that by the time CAL's trial begins that all the links are still there!

Again TYVM Lynn.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I'm not Lynn, but I've been known to keep a few links close by!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/22/missing.marine/index.html



"Sources" are not named, FWIW. [/*]

Thank you cryme!

I know the sources aren't named but sometimes they hit the nail on the head, so to speak.

JMO

[donna]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom




Exactly! How can anyone be running from the truth when nobody here knows what the truth is? Quite a double standard imo that some assume their opinions are the truth and those of us who don't agree with their opinions are running from the truth.

Then of course we have the "he would have already been charged with kidnapping" statement. Followed by "Christina isn't neccesarily innocent just because they haven't charged her yet".

Gotta love the double standards here lol. :biggrin: [/*]

Hi, Sherlocksmom.

I do not really understand the 'double standard' statement. We have all stated our opinions here. And no, just because Christina has not been charged with anything does not mean she will not.

What is meant by no kidnapping charge for me is that there must not be enough evidence to charge CAL with kidnapping.

I do not have double standards.

[JanDoe]

According to the Powers that Be, at this point, they believe they know:

What happened to ML: She was murdered

Who did the murder: Cesar Laurean

How he did it: Blunt force trauma to the head

Where he did it: The garage at the Laurean home

When he did it: Dec 14

Why he did it: THEY DON'T KNOW

In additon, the judge hearing the case, if it gets to the courtroom
will decide what evidence the jury will hear.

so, it is possible that we may not know the complete truth of WHY.....jmo

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by donna


Hi, Sherlocksmom.

I do not really understand the 'double standard' statement. We have all stated our opinions here. And no, just because Christina has not been charged with anything does not mean she will not.

What is meant by no kidnapping charge for me is that there must not be enough evidence to charge CAL with kidnapping.

I do not have double standards. [/*]

So you think just because Christina hasn't been charged doesn't mean she wont be......

CL not being charged with kidnapping means he wont be......

You don't see a double standard there?

FWIW I think either one of them could be charged with anything at anytime depending on what the investigation uncovers.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by JanDoe
According to the Powers that Be, at this point, they believe they know:

What happened to ML: She was murdered

Who did the murder: Cesar Laurean

How he did it: Blunt force trauma to the head

Where he did it: The garage at the Laurean home

When he did it: Dec 14

Why he did it: THEY DON'T KNOW

In additon, the judge hearing the case, if it gets to the courtroom
will decide what evidence the jury will hear.

so, it is possible that we may not know the complete truth of WHY.....jmo [/*]



Great post! It isn't just possible that we don't know the whole truth......it's a fact!

Just because I don't share a few posters opinions doesn't mean I am running from the truth. What I am doing is WAITING for the truth. :read:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Jas.S


That leaves me :eek:

and :confused:



Nobody here has tried to "blame Maria and her mother." If I have missed it, please link me to the pots. ITA.

What on earth would this have to do with CL being, allegedly, kind of cute?

That is truly insulting to the fine people on this forum who seperate the rape allegations--and who, based on the facts knows--do not believe the allegation--from the murder. [/*]

Exactly! :beer:

[donna]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom


So you think just because Christina hasn't been charged doesn't mean she wont be......

CL not being charged with kidnapping means he wont be......

You don't see a double standard there?

FWIW I think either one of them could be charged with anything at anytime depending on what the investigation uncovers. [/*]

First of all, I did not state that CAL not being charged with kidnapping means he won't be. Show me where you think I did.
I do agree with your last statement, tho, that anyone can be charged with whatever the investigation uncovers. IMO

And yes, I believe that just because Christina is not charged with anything at this time does not mean that she will never be charged with anything. IMO

I just do not see any double standard but respect your right to have your opinion.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by JanDoe
According to the Powers that Be, at this point, they believe they know:

What happened to ML: She was murdered

Who did the murder: Cesar Laurean

How he did it: Blunt force trauma to the head

Where he did it: The garage at the Laurean home

When he did it: Dec 14

Why he did it: THEY DON'T KNOW

In additon, the judge hearing the case, if it gets to the courtroom
will decide what evidence the jury will hear.

so, it is possible that we may not know the complete truth of WHY.....jmo [/*]

I believe there will be evidence that supports the truth coming to the forefront.

I believe they will have to at some point address the investigation of rape allegations even tho it's a murder trial.

I believe they will show inconsistencies and how two rape allegations found their way to one.

I believe they will have to address the confirmation by NCIS that Maria was facing a possible discharge.

I believe the USMC will find themselves almost as much on trial as Cesar before all is said and done simply because of the rape allegations. While there can be no such trial, they will have to be called upon to answer questions from my POV.

I believe there will be revealing communications in this case.

I believe the search from a computer will be telling.

I believe the evidence will show Cesar acted like a murderer and had a motive, even if they can't put his hand on the weapon.

I believe Christina will look at a minimum more complicit in this whole tragedy than she already does when all is said and done.

ALL JMO

:shrug:

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by donna


First of all, I did not state that CAL not being charged with kidnapping means he won't be. Show me where you think I did.
I do agree with your last statement, tho, that anyone can be charged with whatever the investigation uncovers. IMO

And yes, I believe that just because Christina is not charged with anything at this time does not mean that she will never be charged with anything. IMO

I just do not see any double standard but respect your right to have your opinion. [/*]



LOL Donna I was not refering to you in my response to bkwits. I didn't say you made that statement either. :cool:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by donna


Hi, Sherlocksmom.

I do not really understand the 'double standard' statement. We have all stated our opinions here. And no, just because Christina has not been charged with anything does not mean she will not.

What is meant by no kidnapping charge for me is that there must not be enough evidence to charge CAL with kidnapping.

I do not have double standards. [/*]

I see nothing to link Christina Laurean and the lack of kidnapping charges. :confused:

I simply believe that if they had any way at all to tie a kidnapping charge in they would have with reference to the man charged with the crime. It's hauntingly obvious they didn't and I refer you to the search of a computer for downloaded directions IIRC.

Maka had a link here to it the other day. :shrug:

JMO, but I believe LE felt she went of her own free will to the Laurean home.

[donna]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom




LOL Donna I was not refering to you in my response to bkwits. I didn't say you made that statement either. :cool: [/*]

TY, Sherlocksmom!

[donna]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I see nothing to link Christina Laurean and the lack of kidnapping charges. :confused:

I simply believe that if they had any way at all to tie a kidnapping charge in they would have with reference to the man charged with the crime. It's hauntingly obvious they didn't and I refer you to the search of a computer for downloaded directions IIRC.

Maka had a link here to it the other day. :shrug:

JMO, but I believe LE felt she went of her own free will to the Laurean home. [/*]

CANDYKISSES, I know that if LE had evidence that CAL kidnapped Maria, they would have charged him with it. I am keeping an open mind even tho I believe that Maria went to CAL's house of her own volition on December 14, 2007.

We really do not know where those directions were to yet.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by donna


TY, Sherlocksmom! [/*]


Welcome :seeya:

[donna]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I believe there will be evidence that supports the truth coming to the forefront.

I believe they will have to at some point address the investigation of rape allegations even tho it's a murder trial.

I believe they will show inconsistencies and how two rape allegations found their way to one.

I believe they will have to address the confirmation by NCIS that Maria was facing a possible discharge.

I believe the USMC will find themselves almost as much on trial as Cesar before all is said and done simply because of the rape allegations. While there can be no such trial, they will have to be called upon to answer questions from my POV.

I believe there will be revealing communications in this case.

I believe the search from a computer will be telling.

I believe the evidence will show Cesar acted like a murderer and had a motive, even if they can't put his hand on the weapon.

I believe Christina will look at a minimum more complicit in this whole tragedy than she already does when all is said and done.

ALL JMO

:shrug: [/*]

There you go making sense again, CANDYKISSES! ITA with your post!

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Jas.S


That leaves me :eek:

and :confused:



Nobody here has tried to "blame Maria and her mother." If I have missed it, please link me to the pots. ITA.

What on earth would this have to do with CL being, allegedly, kind of cute?

That is truly insulting to the fine people on this forum who seperate the rape allegations--and who, based on the facts knows--do not believe the allegation--from the murder. [/*]

It has been stated (paraphrasing loosely here)

that

Maria put herself in harm's way by showing up at the home of her "rapist" (although many of the same posters don't believe she was raped)

Maria put herself in harm's way by falsely claiming rape

Maria put herself in harm's way by previously lying about something

Maria put herself in harm's way by having an affair and showing up at the home of a married man

And so on

Maria's mom didn't protect Maria by preparing her for dangers out there

Many have stated they think Christina did the murder, even though she is not a suspect and she is the one who told LE that Maria was dead,

and it is obvious that Cesar buried and burned the bodies, lied in his "confession" and ran out on his wife and child. Leaving Ctina to face all of this alone. He also deserted the Marines. IMO

[JanDoe]

bkwits:

you are right....there have been many posts about ML placing herself in danger....ie Reed for one.....

[donna]

IF Maria went to CAL's house on her own on the day of the murder, how could it NOT be placing herself in danger? The MPO was in her car.

[bkwits]

henry,

Good job.

Thank you:rose:

Thank you :rose:

Thank you

[caejde]

Originally posted by donna
IF Maria went to CAL's house on her own on the day of the murder, how could it NOT be placing herself in danger? The MPO was in her car. [/*]

And IF she was so afraid of him as she told her parents, and IF she went to his house willingly, she was putting herself in danger. But that doesn't mean she deserved to be killed or she was asking to be killed.

[donna]

Maria is NOT responsible for she and Baby Gabriel's murder. CAL murdered them.

However, IF Maria went to CAL's house, she did put herself in danger. Look what happened there!

[nuttintodo]

Not meaning to go O/T but I would like to tell CK, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! Hope you have a grand time celebrating. :cool:

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by bkwits
henry,

Good job.

Thank you:rose:

Thank you :rose:

Thank you [/*]


LOL What are we thanking Henry for? Not that Henry doesn't deserve thanks or anything. :tongue:

[bkwits]

Originally posted by donna
IF Maria went to CAL's house on her own on the day of the murder, how could it NOT be placing herself in danger? The MPO was in her car. [/*]


We don't know the circumstances, but even if she did go there on her own, she didn't ask or expect to be murdered.

It sounds to me like some are saying, well, what did she expect, thereby mitigating Cesar's vile act. Like it was partly her fault. IMO'

Gotta go now

:seeya:

[donna]

Originally posted by caejde


And IF she was so afraid of him as she told her parents, and IF she went to his house willingly, she was putting herself in danger. But that doesn't mean she deserved to be killed or she was asking to be killed. [/*]

I was typing at the same time, caejde!

Exactly!

[donna]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Not meaning to go O/T but I would like to tell CK, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! Hope you have a grand time celebrating. :cool: [/*]

Yes, Happy Birthday, CK!

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by bkwits
henry,

Good job.

Thank you:rose:

Thank you :rose:

Thank you [/*]

:confused:

[donna]

Originally posted by bkwits



We don't know the circumstances, but even if she did go there on her own, she didn't ask or expect to be murdered.

It sounds to me like some are saying, well, what did she expect, thereby mitigating Cesar's vile act. Like it was partly her fault. IMO'

Gotta go now

:seeya: [/*]

I respect you so much, bkwits, but I do not think anyone is saying that! Certainly not me. IF she went to CAL's house on her own, she was not thinking she was actually in any danger! However, she WAS killed.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by bkwits



We don't know the circumstances, but even if she did go there on her own, she didn't ask or expect to be murdered.

It sounds to me like some are saying, well, what did she expect, thereby mitigating Cesar's vile act. Like it was partly her fault. IMO'

Gotta go now

:seeya: [/*]

How it "sounds to you" though isn't what posters mean.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Jas.S


1) Well, of course.

2) Nobody is saying that here, that she expected to be murdered. Nobody. Neither has anyone said it is a mitigating fact nor partly her fault she was murdered.

That kind of statement, imo, is divisive and will no doubt cause conflicts that will lead to the closing down of the board, which nobody wants. [/*]

Well, I'm leaving now anyway, so enjoy:seeya:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by bkwits



We don't know the circumstances, but even if she did go there on her own, she didn't ask or expect to be murdered.

It sounds to me like some are saying, well, what did she expect, thereby mitigating Cesar's vile act. Like it was partly her fault. IMO'

Gotta go now

:seeya: [/*]

Even if she went there on her own, it does NOT mitigate or lessen the act of the murderer(s). It would be the same vile act if he or she had hidden in Maria's home waiting for her to return from work and then killed her. No more, no less.

IF she went there on her own, she had reason to believe she would be just as safe there as in her own home. Otherwise, IMO, she wouldn't have gone there.

[donna]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Even if she went there on her own, it does NOT mitigate or lessen the act of the murderer(s). It would be the same vile act if he or she had hidden in Maria's home waiting for her to return from work and then killed her. No more, no less.

IF she went there on her own, she had reason to believe she would be just as safe there as in her own home. Otherwise, IMO, she wouldn't have gone there. [/*]

ITA, crymeariver. That is exactly what I meant as well.

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by bkwits



We don't know the circumstances, but even if she did go there on her own, she didn't ask or expect to be murdered.

It sounds to me like some are saying, well, what did she expect, thereby mitigating Cesar's vile act. Like it was partly her fault. IMO'

Gotta go now

:seeya: [/*]

You make a great point bkwits, and that is we don't know the circumstances of how she got to the laurean home. ITA with the rest of your post too.


:beer:

[donna]

*respectfully snipped*

everyone i apologioze for all my typos, dunno if its the eyes or what. it makes sense when I think it, I swear it does, but from brain to fingrtips something happens. Typing slower doesn't help. [/*][/QUOTE]

Hi, AnnieBean!

Your typing is fine - I never have a problem with it.

Many unexpected things can happen to us through poor judgement. And if Maria went to CAL's house on her own that day, it was poor judgement and she could not have known what was about to happen to her.

BTW, hope your test turned out well yesterday.

[henry]

Originally posted by nelkirk
One of the problems is that very few of us know the "history" of the ones posting. Not to take this off topic....Our DD was the same age as ML very inexperienced with "dating". Our DD's story is so very close to MLs and our DD would not let go of the relationship. She chased this man, kept trying to get him to do the "honorable thing"...both him and his SO tried to kill her. She refused to believe that he meant what he said and she refused to "get him in trouble" by testifying.

History plays a big part in what we post. Which brings me to my post about we are parents training our children for the cold hostile world. [/*]

just popping in/out . . . but i have to admit to rating posters' comments on a 1-10 scale and i always cling to yours for their sensefulness (word?), factualness, and honesty . . . thank you.

[henry]

i thought you were going to clean today?

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


oh nelkirk I pray to God your DD is safe. I did not know your story of that happening. You are right, this is not the 50's or even the 60's. What we teach our kids today- and grandkids if the parents dont; have the good sense to- is basicly hove to survive childhood without being molested, kidnapped, or murdered. I can't even imagine how I would have felt if my parenst had had the good touch bad touch discussion with me whjen I was- say 3 or 4. MY oldest DD approach was she told her son everything and I do mean everything- (he's 8 but she told him when he was 6) I was worried she told him a little too much, not so much as sexual info, cos there was that aplenty too, but just the really raw info like serial killers and grabbing little boys, etc. But her theory is hey, if I scarred him for life then so be it. He will be aware and cautious and maybe grow up to be an adult. He's a pretty smart kid, but he will never be as smaart as a guy who has his sights set on snatching him. Thats the scarey thing.
A poster said the other day that it has been said that the 60's was the last innocent generation. I beleive thats true.
I also beleive thats sad. JMO [/*]

Have to chuckle about the 60's....my DH swears we wouldn't be having all this trouble if we still had 8-tracks! :D

No I-pods, no MTV, no $200 sneakers. No sireeeee, Bob. Technology is the debbil. :tongue:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by nelkirk


:lol:

Too funny, but you have to wonder... [/*]

We have so much information, but not so many answers, if you know what I mean! Technology is great for a lot of things, but IMO it has also made it possible to live your life with very little sincerity and honesty if that's what you choose to do.

[donna]

Originally posted by nelkirk
One of the problems is that very few of us know the "history" of the ones posting. Not to take this off topic....Our DD was the same age as ML very inexperienced with "dating". Our DD's story is so very close to MLs and our DD would not let go of the relationship. She chased this man, kept trying to get him to do the "honorable thing"...both him and his SO tried to kill her. She refused to believe that he meant what he said and she refused to "get him in trouble" by testifying.

History plays a big part in what we post. Which brings me to my post about we as parents training our children for the cold hostile world. [/*]


GB you and your DD, nelkirk!

My youngest daughter was in a relationship in junior college with a guy that hit her. She came in just brokenhearted and crying, refusing to believe he had been capable of doing this. She would not press charges. Her Dad had retired from LE, and I was still in LE at the time.
Her Dad called him and told him he had better not ever know of him trying to contact our daughter again.
It took her a long time for her to get over this guy - her grades slipped and she did not even go out with her friends for the longest.
We (my husband and I) talked to her her telling her that if he had hit her once, it could escalate into something more the next time. Thankfully, she did stay away from him and now she is in a very happy marriage and I have beautiful grandchildren.
It might not have turned out so well if she had not been preached at so much about personal safety, and was not afraid to talk to us. That was 11 years ago.
Maria was young, and probably much too trusting.
nelkirk, I do not believe your post was off topic, nor is mine. Young women just do not realize the danger they can be in.
Again - GB you and your daughter!

:rose: ... For all abused women everywhere of all ages and backgrounds. It CAN happen.

[henry]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
I'm going to go take a nap. Y'all behave:no:

:seeya:
AB [/*]

please - not before you clean out your in box . . . second request!

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by henry


please - not before you clean out your in box . . . second request! [/*]
:) Don't think she heard you!

[donna]

Originally posted by nelkirk
IIRC SB was asked a question during the January 10th PC (by a reporter) about the area where they were currently searching for the "remains".

SB said that it was near Gum Branch Road...the reporter asked for clairification of the name and SB spelled it for him GUM BRANCH.

According to the NC public records the truck the CAL was driving was registered to a Salvator Laurean

When doing a search for Salvator Laurean there is one llisted with GUM BRANCH Road

Can't help but wonder if this is a coincidence or what? [/*]

:eek: .... I think that came up once before on here!

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by donna


:eek: .... I think that came up once before on here! [/*]

Good memory Donna! From 1/20:





nuttintodo
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 2655

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sunstar

" The black Dodge pickup truck said to belong to Cesar Laurean is actually registered to Salvador Laurean who has listed a Gum Branch Road address on the registration. The Gum Branch address is near Cesar's house."

http://www.bluelineradio.com/laureancomparison.html
[/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



If you go to yahoo maps or any other mapper and type in 904 Gum Branch Road, Jacksonville, NC, the mapper will show you where that is located but that doesn't necessarily prove there is a residence there or not.

See: http://maps.yahoo.com/ ;_ylc=X3oDMT...> NC%2C%2028540





http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?postid=11116904&highlight=gum+branch+road#post11116904

[donna]

nelkirk, isn't Salvator Laurean CAL's Dad's name as well?

[donna]

Regina, where do you think 904 Gum Branch Road would be in relation to CAL's house?

[JanDoe]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jas.S


I don't believe they "believe they know." They probably have strong suspicions and believe that there is a fair probability of what they think is the case, well, actually being the case.




To Believe:

to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliabilty of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so.

"Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully"

geez......quit spliting hairs

The DA, at this point, believes he knows a few things about this case........jmo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


How it "sounds to you" though isn't what posters mean. [/*]


Maybe not, but just how it comes across TO ME. IMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by donna
Regina, where do you think 904 Gum Branch Road would be in relation to CAL's house? [/*]

According to mapquest, it's only like 5 miles.

[donna]

Originally posted by nelkirk


GB you and your daughter. It is great that she has a happy life. [/*]

Thank you, nelkirk. She does have a great life now, but my 39 year old does not. At least one of them does.

[caejde]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Yes, but so is his brother...

Just thinking about the ATM pics [/*]

If I remember correctly, it was mentioned that his brother was close in age to Cesar...but not sure if younger or older.

Also, I remember during one of the press conferences the sheriff did, it was brought up about the truck and where and who it was registered to.

[donna]

Originally posted by caejde


According to mapquest, it's only like 5 miles. [/*]

:eek: ... caejde, do you know where 904 is? Could it be who might have helped CAL at Lowes, and maybe at the ATM?

[donna]

Thanks for the link, Regina!

[caejde]

Originally posted by donna


:eek: ... caejde, do you know where 904 is? Could it be who might have helped CAL at Lowes, and maybe at the ATM? [/*]

I'm sure I've driven by the house plenty of times. Our realty office where I pay rent to is on Gumbranch as well as the gym I go to. Neither is far from where I live.

I don't think that was his brother on the Lowe's video...unless his brother is a Marine. But the guy on the video looked more Caucasian that Mexican. ATM...well, I started having my doubts about that being Cesar at the ATM. I see similiarities but I just don't know if it's him because I don't see any tatoos.

[caejde]

Originally posted by nelkirk


I believe he is 23 years old. [/*]

So, my question is...is that the brother's truck and he was letting Cesar borrow it. Or, did the brother cosign with Cesar. Or did the brother buy it for Cesar because he had more established credit history...

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by donna
Regina, where do you think 904 Gum Branch Road would be in relation to CAL's house? [/*]

I'm in the middle of my taxes here, but IIRC the bank was on Gum Branch too. Try a search and see what you can come up with. I think I remember somebody posting a map with all these roads marked, the one where the laurean home was too.

[donna]

Originally posted by caejde


I'm sure I've driven by the house plenty of times. Our realty office where I pay rent to is on Gumbranch as well as the gym I go to. Neither is far from where I live.

I don't think that was his brother on the Lowe's video...unless his brother is a Marine. But the guy on the video looked more Caucasian that Mexican. ATM...well, I started having my doubts about that being Cesar at the ATM. I see similiarities but I just don't know if it's him because I don't see any tatoos. [/*]

Apparently LE had a problem with not seeing tattoos also because at first it was reported that 'an unidentified man' tried to use Maria's ATM card on December 24, IIRC.

I had brought up at the time of the Lowes video release that maybe the guy with CAL was Amber's husband. However, that theory was discounted by other posters looking at Amber's husband's pic on her MySpace page.

When you say you have driven by 904 Gum Branch Road, did you see the house itself? Was it being lived in?

[caejde]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


I'm in the middle of my taxes here, but IIRC the bank was on Gum Branch too. Try a search and see what you can come up with. I think I remember somebody posting a map with all these roads marked, the one where the laurean home was too. [/*]

Yuck, I've been working on taxes too and I had to give up for now!

Which bank are you talking about? The ATM that was used on 12/24 is on the corner of Western/Gumbranch-couple miles from the Laurean's home-I drive past it several times a week. As for the Marine Federal Credit Union-I think there are a couple different branches here in town and definitely several MFCU ATM's.

[caejde]

Originally posted by donna


Apparently LE had a problem with not seeing tattoos also because at first it was reported that 'an unidentified man' tried to use Maria's ATM card on December 24, IIRC.

I had brought up at the time of the Lowes video release that maybe the guy with CAL was Amber's husband. However, that theory was discounted by other posters looking at Amber's husband's pic on her MySpace page.

When you say you have driven by 904 Gum Branch Road, did you see the house itself? Was it being lived in? [/*]

Honestly, I haven't paid attention to it. I didn't know it was the address of the brother. I know there are some apartments and some homes in that area. But I am not sure which it would be. I'll try to look next time I'm over in that area.

[donna]

Well, CAL would have had help living close by if that turns out to be his brother. Also, his brother could have been the one who parked the truck at the Microtel hotel.

It would be so very interesting to know if 904 is indeed CAL's brother's house. If that were verified, it would be one little bit of information we did not have previously.

[caejde]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Good question... The taxes on the truck were paid in 11/07 [/*]

And taxes are due I think 3 months after you register it. When was the truck bought...does anyone know?

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by donna
Regina, where do you think 904 Gum Branch Road would be in relation to CAL's house? [/*]

FROM:
103 Meadow Trail
Jacksonville, NC 28546

TO:
904 Gum Branch Rd.
Jacksonville, NC 28540

DISTANCE:
5.6 mi – about 10 mins

http://tinyurl.com/2logcc <--- Google Map

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


I'm in the middle of my taxes here, but IIRC the bank was on Gum Branch too. Try a search and see what you can come up with. I think I remember somebody posting a map with all these roads marked, the one where the laurean home was too. [/*]

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/1200146269-lauterbacktimelinemap.jpg

[Maka]

I don't see an address listed when I check by name on the county tax site for the truck, but I do see Salvador listed.

Is this how you guys are connecting the Gum Branch address....or how was that address found? TYIA


http://maps.onslowcountync.gov/gomaps/map/index.cfm

ETA there's no 904 on record

[donna]

Thank you, Lynn Gweeny!

[Lynn Gweeny]

From Page 4 of the Search Warrant:

On December 24, 2007, a surveillance camera from a bank’s Automated Teller Machine (ATM), located near the intersection of Gum Branch Road and Western Boulevard, Jacksonville, North Carolina, showed that a white male attempted to access Lauterbach’s account.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Cell+Phone+Search+Warrant.pdf


FROM:
103 Meadow Trail
Jacksonville, NC 28546

TO:
Gum Branch Road and Western Blvd.
Jacksonville, NC

DISTANCE:
2.3 mi – about 3 mins


http://tinyurl.com/yrzy9v <---- Google Map

[donna]

Originally posted by nelkirk


I did a public records check and found a Salvator Laurean with a GUM BRANCH NC address. Thought that was strange.. [/*]

:shrug: ... That is strange because someone on this board said it was RUMORED that CAL had relatives in N. C.! Maybe this is what they meant - that Salvator Laurean pops up at that town!

[Maka]

Originally posted by nelkirk


I did a public records check and found a Salvator Laurean with a GUM BRANCH NC address. Thought that was strange.. [/*]

hmmm so it was a misspelling of his dad's name and a typo for the house number?

I guess CL and CSL would have rented somewhere before they bought their house and Salvador could have co-signed and/or the phone could have been in his name too, like on the truck.

It could even be CL was using his dad's name and social without his permission to get stuff. That would be interesting to find out about either way.
------------



and I didn't even know it was confirmed CL had a brother

:shrug:

[donna]

:seeya: ... Got to go take my mother's laundry back to her.

[strick10]

Originally posted by donna


:shrug: ... That is strange because someone on this board said it was RUMORED that CAL had relatives in N. C.! Maybe this is what they meant - that Salvator Laurean pops up at that town! [/*]

I'm thinking the father moved to NC shortly after they sold the house in Nevada. Perhaps CALs parents separated or divorced. :shrug:

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Jas.S


:shrug:

You call the different levels of proof in the law "splitting hairs?"

There is no room for "to believe" within the judicial system.

Can you imagine a prosecutor telling the jurors, " now, I have no proof but I confident that X did Y?"

Whether or not the DA "believes he knows" a few things is neither here nor there.

Evidence and proof is everything. [/*]



I don't think you read my post......

I never spoke about what the attys would say in court, I spoke only about the process the LE and DA go through leading up to
getting the needed paperwork......

example: We believe he is in Mexico
much time, effort, and money has been put into them believing that......jmo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Jas.S


:shrug:

You call the different levels of proof in the law "splitting hairs?"

There is no room for "to believe" within the judicial system.

snipped

[/*]

Sure there is IMO

the DA believes or doesn't believe your alibi.

The jury believes or doesn't believe a witness

the judge believes or doesn't believe something is relevant to the trial 't and allows it or doesn't allow it.

The jury believes (after the case is presented) that the accused is innocent or guilty.

There are plenty of beliefs or non-beliefs in case law.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by bkwits


Sure there is IMO

the DA believes or doesn't believe your alibi.

The jury believes or doesn't believe a witness

the judge believes or doesn't believe something is relevant to the trial 't and allows it or doesn't allow it.

The jury believes (after the case is presented) that the accused is innocent or guilty.

There are plenty of beliefs or non-beliefs in case law. [/*]


GREAT POST!!!!!!

I think there may be confusion about BELIEVE......it's a verb

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by nelkirk


I believe he is 23 years old. [/*]
The Salvador S. Laurean that was formally listed at the address of Cesar's parents is 32 years old as of last June

[bkwits]

Originally posted by JanDoe



GREAT POST!!!!!!

I think there may be confusion about BELIEVE......it's a verb [/*]

Yes, when all is said and done in a criminal case (or even a civil case, for that matter), it comes down to what the trier of fact (judge or jury) "believes".

After all, the only other alternative would be if they were actual eyewitnesses to the crime. IMO

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by bkwits


Yes, when all is said and done in a criminal case (or even a civil case, for that matter), it comes down to what the trier of fact (judge or jury) "believes".

After all, the only other alternative would be if they were actual eyewitnesses to the crime. IMO [/*]


and if they were eyewitnesses to the crime, a judge or juror would have to step aside.....

if this case gets into the courtroom it will be interesting what the judge believes is relevant......imo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by JanDoe



and if they were eyewitnesses to the crime, a judge or juror would have to step aside.....

if this case gets into the courtroom it will be interesting what the judge believes is relevant......imo [/*]

Yes, I agree. :beer:

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by bkwits


Yes, I agree. :beer: [/*]

I wonder if the rape allegation(s) will be allowed in because there is no evidence.....jmo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by bkwits


Sure there is IMO

the DA believes or doesn't believe your alibi.

The jury believes or doesn't believe a witness

the judge believes or doesn't believe something is relevant to the trial 't and allows it or doesn't allow it.

The jury believes (after the case is presented) that the accused is innocent or guilty.

There are plenty of beliefs or non-beliefs in case law. [/*]

Sure everybody can "believe" all they want. It's what evidence backs up that belief, as in "proof". Or what leads one to that belief.

I can "believe" John Smith robbed a bank because that's what the prosecutor believes and says. But can he prove that John Smith robbed the bank?

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Sure everybody can "believe" all they want. It's what evidence backs up that belief, as in "proof". Or what leads one to that belief.

I can "believe" John Smith robbed a bank because that's what the prosecutor believes and says. But can he prove that John Smith robbed the bank? [/*]

yes and even with proof that some believe and some don't we get hung-juries.....

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by JanDoe


I wonder if the rape allegation(s) will be allowed in because there is no evidence.....jmo [/*]

I want to say NO. Simply because an allegation does not a conviction make. If he had been convicted on the rape charges, then yes. Otherwise, it's probably going to be deemed too prejudicial to the defendant.

IMO, it wouldn't fit the description of "prior bad acts".

:shrug:

I dunno though.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by JanDoe



GREAT POST!!!!!!

I think there may be confusion about BELIEVE......it's a verb [/*]

I think someone might have forgotten about PROOF and BEYOND A RESONABLE DOUBT. Both are instrumental in our criminal justice system. :patriot:

JMO

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I want to say NO. Simply because an allegation does not a conviction make. If he had been convicted on the rape charges, then yes. Otherwise, it's probably going to be deemed too prejudicial to the defendant.

IMO, it wouldn't fit the description of "prior bad acts".

:shrug:

I dunno though. [/*]


I agree with you.....it seems they will find some way to show the jury a kind of relationship between ML and CL if the baby was his....

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I want to say NO. Simply because an allegation does not a conviction make. If he had been convicted on the rape charges, then yes. Otherwise, it's probably going to be deemed too prejudicial to the defendant.

IMO, it wouldn't fit the description of "prior bad acts".

:shrug:

I dunno though. [/*]

Depending on whether or not DA Hudson wants to present the jury with a motive and the DNA of the baby, the USMC may be called in to testify for the PROSECUTION or the DEFENSE depending on the information they have, IMO.

But that is JMO. :shrug:

[nuttintodo]

According to the tax records, Laurean was billed for the taxes on the truck beginning on 3/1/07 which means that Laurean tags were renewed in December. The tax office, as a rule, sends out your tax bill on vehicle taxes approximately 90 days after you renew the tags.

So it stands to reason that Laurean originally purchased the truck in the month of December. This truck was purchased from Sanders Ford, which location I do not know (they have 2 locations---Jacksonville and Swansboro).

The truck was either purchased in CAL's fathers' or brothers' name, which at this point we do not know which one. I do know that you have to show valid ID in order to purchase a vehicle.

As to the bank being on Gum Branch, the MFCU headquarters is located on Western Blvd. extension and they have several branches all over Jacksonville as well as the county. They also have numerous ATM's all over town too.

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Sure everybody can "believe" all they want. It's what evidence backs up that belief, as in "proof". Or what leads one to that belief.

I can "believe" John Smith robbed a bank because that's what the prosecutor believes and says. But can he prove that John Smith robbed the bank? [/*]

:confused:

I didn't say anything about not having proof, so I don't understand what you are saying.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I think someone might have forgotten about PROOF and BEYOND A RESONABLE DOUBT. Both are instrumental in our criminal justice system. :patriot:

JMO [/*]

nope...never forgot about that or ever confused about that....it is as stated above.....comes down to what the jurors believe is reliable proof.....that can and does differ from one juror to another...imo

I hope they get a jury that can all agree with the evidence and the case goes quickly......they just have to find him....

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by bkwits


:confused:

I didn't say anything about not having proof, so I don't understand what you are saying. [/*]


you're right btwits..... because even with proof sometimes one juror doesn't believe it......hung-jury

[strick10]

Thanks for the info Nuttintodo!

[bkwits]

quote:Originally posted by Jas.S




You call the different levels of proof in the law "splitting hairs?"

There is no room for "to believe" within the judicial system.

snipped

[/*]



Sure there is IMO

the DA believes or doesn't believe your alibi.

The jury believes or doesn't believe a witness

the judge believes or doesn't believe something is relevant to the trial 't and allows it or doesn't allow it.

The jury believes (after the case is presented) that the accused is innocent or guilty.

There are plenty of beliefs or non-beliefs in case law.



The poster said that there is no room "to believe" within the judicial system. I refuted that in that narrow sense. That is all.
__________________:no:

[bkwits]

Originally posted by JanDoe


I wonder if the rape allegation(s) will be allowed in because there is no evidence.....jmo [/*]


If you are speaking of a future trial of Cesar for Maria's murder, I think it will probably come in as to motive. After all, it is not a trial on the rape allegation. IMO

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by bkwits



If you are speaking of a future trial of Cesar for Maria's murder, I think it will probably come in as to motive. After all, it is not a trial on the rape allegation. IMO [/*]

no...it is a murder trial I realize...but without evidence of a rape I wonder how they will show the relationship between CL and ML beside that they worked together......

[bkwits]

Originally posted by JanDoe


no...it is a murder trial I realize...but without evidence of a rape I wonder how they will show the relationship between CL and ML beside that they worked together...... [/*]

Of course it is up to the judge to decide what comes into the trial, but since the rape allegation is so well-dcoumented (that is in the marine records), I think it will most likely come in.

Now defense might claim something liket Maria was an unbalanced perosn.....and so on....and that the claim was ficticious and she killed herself.

But, IMOO, the rape allegation is central to the case from what we now know. JMO

[henry]

Originally posted by bkwits


Of course it is up to the judge to decide what comes into the trial, but since the rape allegation is so well-dcoumented (that is in the marine records), I think it will most likely come in.

Now defense might claim something liket Maria was an unbalanced perosn.....and so on....and that the claim was ficticious and she killed herself.

But, IMOO, the rape allegation is central to the case from what we now know. JMO [/*]

:seeya: good evening! just wondering . . . would the rape charge be under the jurisdiction of the mc and therefore be tried under court martial . . . if i'm using the correct term :shrug:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


Of course it is up to the judge to decide what comes into the trial, but since the rape allegation is so well-documented (that is in the marine records), I think it will most likely come in.

Now defense might claim something liked Maria was an unbalanced perosn.....and so on....and that the claim was fictitious and she killed herself.

But, IMOO, the rape allegation is central to the case from what we now know. JMO [/*]

Yes, I agree that it is but I think a Judge may be reluctant to let in something so prejudicial against a defendant when there was never even a charge, arrest or trial to prove the validity of the allegations.

He just may think it is way too prejudicial and will be cautious not to make a ruling that could overturn the trial on appeal.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by henry


:seeya: good evening! just wondering . . . would the rape charge be under the jurisdiction of the mc and therefore be tried under court martial . . . if i'm using the correct term :shrug: [/*]

The rape allegation is a military matter only and their jurisdiction not the local OSCD.

imoo:seeya:

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by henry


:seeya: good evening! just wondering . . . would the rape charge be under the jurisdiction of the mc and therefore be tried under court martial . . . if i'm using the correct term :shrug: [/*]


I don't know........
I hope the MC deals with the rape allegation and not NC.....from your mouth to God's ears....I wouldn't like to see ML's reputation debated in open court.....jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe


no...it is a murder trial I realize...but without evidence of a rape I wonder how they will show the relationship between CL and ML beside that they worked together...... [/*]

They may have witnesses that they have interviewed that knew of their relationship and when it started and if there was still contact of any kind lately.

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


They may have witnesses that they have interviewed that knew of their relationship and when it started and if there was still contact of any kind lately.

imoo [/*]

I've thought about that and suppose witnesses exist on both sides as to whether it was a friendly or fearful relationship....

[henry]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


The rape allegation is a military matter only and their jurisdiction not the local OSCD.

imoo:seeya: [/*]

thank you - another question that i posted early in the a.m. . . . if a mc individual calls 911 while on base from their cell phone . . . what happens? does oscd come to the front gate . . . or do they transfer the call to the mc?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Yes, I agree that it is but I think a Judge may be reluctant to let in something so prejudicial against a defendant when there was never even a charge, arrest or trial to prove the validity of the allegations.

He just may think it is way too prejudicial and will be cautious not to make a ruling that could overturn the trial on appeal.

imoo [/*]

I'm no legal expert by any stretch of the imagination but I wonder if this would come in under Rule 404? (That concerns prior bad acts, i.e., Barbara Stager, Michael Peterson)

And like it was in the MP case, the prior bad act (or his being in close proximity to another woman's death in Germany) it caused a trial within a trial, so to speak. Also in the Peterson trial, Tom Maher was his attorney of record for the appeal and he used the 404 rule in an attempt to have Peterson's conviction overturned, but his appeal was denied.

I'll have to go the NC General Statutes and see what they have on Rule 404.

JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by henry


thank you - another question that i posted early in the a.m. . . . if a mc individual calls 911 while on base from their cell phone . . . what happens? does oscd come to the front gate . . . or do they transfer the call to the mc? [/*]

If the active duty personnel/personnel lives on base, the MP's are dispatched and OCSD wouldn't be involved.

If the active duty personnel/spouse lives off base, then the approriate LE would be dispatched---in city it would be JPD, county OCSD.

JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by JanDoe



I don't know........
I hope the MC deals with the rape allegation and not NC.....from your mouth to God's ears....I wouldn't like to see ML's reputation debated in open court.....jmo [/*]

The state wouldn't be involved in the rape allegation since it allegedly occured on base and not in the county/city.

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by henry


:seeya: good evening! just wondering . . . would the rape charge be under the jurisdiction of the mc and therefore be tried under court martial . . . if i'm using the correct term :shrug: [/*]

Well, I don't know about the rape charge being tried, or if it will. We were discussing whether the rape allegation would come into the murder trial if Cesar is tried for murder of Maria.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


The state wouldn't be involved in the rape allegation since it allegedly occured on base and not in the county/city.

JMO [/*]

so if the baby was CL's...the jury would just be informed of that fact and no mention of anything else?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by henry


:seeya: good evening! just wondering . . . would the rape charge be under the jurisdiction of the mc and therefore be tried under court martial . . . if i'm using the correct term :shrug: [/*]

I feel confident saying that whenever the court martial occurs, all evidence that the MC has concerning CAL will be brought forth.

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Yes, I agree that it is but I think a Judge may be reluctant to let in something so prejudicial against a defendant when there was never even a charge, arrest or trial to prove the validity of the allegations.

He just may think it is way too prejudicial and will be cautious not to make a ruling that could overturn the trial on appeal.

imoo [/*]

Maybe.:shrug:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I'm no legal expert by any stretch of the imagination but I wonder if this would come in under Rule 404? (That concerns prior bad acts, i.e., Barbara Stager, Michael Peterson)

And like it was in the MP case, the prior bad act (or his being in close proximity to another woman's death in Germany) it caused a trial within a trial, so to speak. Also in the Peterson trial, Tom Maher was his attorney of record for the appeal and he used the 404 rule in an attempt to have Peterson's conviction overturned, but his appeal was denied.

I'll have to go the NC General Statutes and see what they have on Rule 404.

JMO [/*]

That is because the death of the other woman was eerily very similar to Kathleen's death. Now if CL had another girlfriend that happened to die in a similar like manner and it was never solved then maybe so.

But imo these crimes aren't similar in nature. One is a allegation of rape and one is murder.

Judges are usually very cautious when allowing this in because they don't want the jury to base the case before them on the circumstances of what a defendant may have done in the past.

Heck I have seen serial killers who killed in different ways and their prior cases were disallowed because they didn't use the same manner to kill them as they did with the one the jury is deciding. Example: Strangled vs. bludgeoned" etc.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I feel confident saying that whenever the court martial occurs, all evidence that the MC has concerning CAL will be brought forth.

JMO [/*]

Do you think they are going to try him for rape?

Or do you think they may try him after the State for murdering Gabriel?

I am not sure the rape case can ever go forward. There was already problems with it.

But they may very well try him after the State gets through for Gabriel which they should imo.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by JanDoe


so if the baby was CL's...the jury would just be informed of that fact and no mention of anything else? [/*]

Dewey may try to bring the rape allegation into the trial and Wally Paramore will fight tooth and nail to keep it out. I don't think the judge will allow it in though and if he does, I'll be quite surprised.

No doubt the paternity of Gabriel will be introduced into evidence and most likely will help show motive.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Dewey may try to bring the rape allegation into the trial and Wally Paramore will fight tooth and nail to keep it out. I don't think the judge will allow it in though and if he does, I'll be quite surprised.

No doubt the paternity of Gabriel will be introduced into evidence and most likely will help show motive.

JMO [/*]

Finding a juror that doesn't know this already is going to be impossible anyway imo.

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Dewey may try to bring the rape allegation into the trial and Wally Paramore will fight tooth and nail to keep it out. I don't think the judge will allow it in though and if he does, I'll be quite surprised.

No doubt the paternity of Gabriel will be introduced into evidence and most likely will help show motive.

JMO [/*]

I can agree with that.....the jury will understand CL is married to CSL and they will understand that ML and CL worked together and they will understand that ML's baby is CL's.....hey that might be the way it goes.....

[bkwits]

Originally posted by AnnieBean



Seems like there would have to be alot of oral tippietoeing to not have the subject of the rape (or lack of one) some up in her murder trial, I don't see how they can seperate the two.

Unless they could give hm the DP for somethig off the wall after getting him back from mexico, which would require a seperate trial? I'd be all for it then.... [/*]

Annie, I agree with you. I think the rape allegation will come into the murder trial (if there is one). After all, all kinds of abuse and threats come into trials even though there was not convictions or sometimes even charges. The Jensen letter from the grave even came into that trial (but that was a stretch).

The rape allegation is central to the case (at least the way it looks now). It is directly related to the case. It's not as if he was accused by someone else. It was discussed in the Marine press conference and in all the media.

JMO

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Do you think they are going to try him for rape?

Or do you think they may try him after the State for murdering Gabriel?

I am not sure the rape case can ever go forward. There was already problems with it.

But they may very well try him after the State gets through for Gabriel which they should imo.

imoo [/*]
I'm not nuttin, but didn't think you'd mind if I put in my 2 cents regarding your first question.

In my mind I can see no way the rape case could go forward since there was no witness, or rape kit evidence to the alleged crime.

Unless CAL came forward saying he did so, then at this time there is nothing to go forward with IMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Getting the PBA witnesses allowed to testify were a big deal in the PS case as well. But again, all of them backed up stories of similar dangerous behavior with guns and not allowing women to leave. I heard rumors they could have brought a few more on but the judge limited the number allowed....jeez...maybe another one will replace Diane Ogden, rest her soul.
Anyway theres no PBA witnesses in this case are there? And they don't have special circumstances in NC do they? (Like in California) [/*]

If there is I sure haven't heard of it. In the PS trial yes they could show a pattern of repetitive behavior. I would guess that Laurean has never been accused of rape before this.

They may have.......you mean like killing someone using a firearm or killing them by bludgeoning? They may have that but usually that gets them added time and it isn't a lot of time. In Dyleski's case they had that and he was found guilty of the special circumstances but LWOP is LWOP which is what he got but I think using a bludgeoning weapon added a year to the sentence.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Do you think they are going to try him for rape?

Or do you think they may try him after the State for murdering Gabriel?

I am not sure the rape case can ever go forward. There was already problems with it.

But they may very well try him after the State gets through for Gabriel which they should imo.

imoo [/*]

I don't know if the MC will try him for the rape allegation. Like you said there was/is problems with it.

I do hope for Gabriel's sake he is tried for the baby's death.

And in reference to the Rule 404 (Bee) here's what it says:

(Bee) Other crimes, wrongs, or acts. – Evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is not admissible to prove the character of a person in order to show that he acted in conformity therewith. It may, however, be admissible for other purposes, such as proof of
motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake, entrapment or accident. Admissible evidence may include evidence of an offense
committed by a juvenile if it would have been a Class A, *1, *2, C, D, or E felony if committed by an adult. (1983, c. 701, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 7, s. 3; 1995, c. 509, s. 7.)

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/.../Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_8C/Article_4.pdf

jmo (and check your messages dear)

[henry]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


If the active duty personnel/personnel lives on base, the MP's are dispatched and OCSD wouldn't be involved.

If the active duty personnel/spouse lives off base, then the approriate LE would be dispatched---in city it would be JPD, county OCSD.

JMO [/*]

thank you . . . you're a wealth of info tonite!

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by henry


thank you . . . you're a wealth of info tonite! [/*]

lol henry! Sometimes it just happens, lol. ;)

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I'm not nuttin, but didn't think you'd mind if I put in my 2 cents regarding your first question.

In my mind I can see no way the rape case could go forward since there was no witness, or rape kit evidence to the alleged crime.

Unless CAL came forward saying he did so, then at this time there is nothing to go forward with IMO [/*]

I sure dont mind, Ivy, nice to "see" you.

Yes I agree, I cant see it going forward either.

They will know who's Gabriel's father is though in the murder trial.........the ME will tell that or another expert.

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Dewey may try to bring the rape allegation into the trial and Wally Paramore will fight tooth and nail to keep it out. I don't think the judge will allow it in though and if he does, I'll be quite surprised.

No doubt the paternity of Gabriel will be introduced into evidence and most likely will help show motive.

JMO [/*]

What would be the motive then? Wouldn't it make Cesar seem even more cruel to kill her with no motive other than she was pregnant with his child?


I don't think the jury will buy "she slit her own throat" defense.

Now if the defense can counteract the rape allegation with it was a false rape allegation, and she is just this person who lies and is out of control, they may have a better defense.

The more I think about it .....yes I think it will come in. IMO

[crymeariver2006]

IMO only....

It seems rather dangerous ground for the DA to introduce an alleged rape case (which in itself is full of problems), IF it is proven that the baby was NOT a result of "rape", but was conceived after the dates of the alleged rape.

That would only open the door for the defense to show that Cesar had no ill feelings for Maria, nor she for him. Then he's more than likely going to point the finger at the wronged wife as having more motive to want Maria out of the picture. It only takes one juror to see it that way too.

Especially if Maria went to that house willingly, unaware that Christina was or could have been there.

This would be when fetal age would have to be presented, by either side.

(ETA: Barbara Stager - now there's a blast from the past!).

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I sure dont mind, Ivy, nice to "see" you.

Yes I agree, I cant see it going forward either.

They will know who's Gabriel's father is though in the murder trial.........the ME will tell that or another expert.

imoo [/*]

But suppose, SUPPOSE, Cesar is not Gabriel's father. In that case, how would they bring in any of the allegations at trial?

Hi, everybody :seeya:

Happy Birthday CK!!!!

[bkwits]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I don't know if the MC will try him for the rape allegation. Like you said there was/is problems with it.

I do hope for Gabriel's sake he is tried for the baby's death.

And in reference to the Rule 404 (Bee) here's what it says:

(Bee) Other crimes, wrongs, or acts. – Evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is not admissible to prove the character of a person in order to show that he acted in conformity therewith. It may, however, be admissible for other purposes, such as proof of
motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake, entrapment or accident. Admissible evidence may include evidence of an offense
committed by a juvenile if it would have been a Class A, *1, *2, C, D, or E felony if committed by an adult. (1983, c. 701, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 7, s. 3; 1995, c. 509, s. 7.)

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/.../Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_8C/Article_4.pdf

jmo (and check your messages dear) [/*]

Thanks Nuttin, By that rule, it seems like it would definitely come in. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I don't know if the MC will try him for the rape allegation. Like you said there was/is problems with it.

I do hope for Gabriel's sake he is tried for the baby's death.

And in reference to the Rule 404 (Bee) here's what it says:

(Bee) Other crimes, wrongs, or acts. – Evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is not admissible to prove the character of a person in order to show that he acted in conformity therewith. It may, however, be admissible for other purposes, such as proof of
motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake, entrapment or accident. Admissible evidence may include evidence of an offense
committed by a juvenile if it would have been a Class A, *1, *2, C, D, or E felony if committed by an adult. (1983, c. 701, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 7, s. 3; 1995, c. 509, s. 7.)

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/.../Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_8C/Article_4.pdf

jmo (and check your messages dear) [/*]

Thanks Nuttin.

Sheesh ........sometime my PM home doorbell works and sometime it doesn't. Sorry about that.:D

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Cardinal


But suppose, SUPPOSE, Cesar is not Gabriel's father. In that case, how would they bring in any of the allegations at trial?

Hi, everybody :seeya:

Happy Birthday CK!!!! [/*]

:eek: Now man, wouldn't that be a bizarre twist and turn?

imoo

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I sure dont mind, Ivy, nice to "see" you.

Yes I agree, I cant see it going forward either.

They will know who's Gabriel's father is though in the murder trial.........the ME will tell that or another expert.

imoo [/*]
:) at "seeing me", I'm usually always here, but mainly read and talk alot out loud to the posts.

Even IF the unborn's DNA matches CAL, it won't prove rape as we all know.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Cardinal


But suppose, SUPPOSE, Cesar is not Gabriel's father. In that case, how would they bring in any of the allegations at trial?

Hi, everybody :seeya:

Happy Birthday CK!!!! [/*]

That's an interesting question and I almost posted it.

The rape allegation doesn't have to be "true" to come into the trial. Cesar could be telling the truth that he never had sex with Maria (I don't believe it), but would the "false" rape allegation would still be motive. IMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by bkwits


What would be the motive then? Wouldn't it make Cesar seem even more cruel to kill her with no motive other than she was pregnant with his child?


I don't think the jury will buy "she slit her own throat" defense.

Now if the defense can counteract the rape allegation with it was a false rape allegation, and she is just this person who lies and is out of control, they may have a better defense.

The more I think about it .....yes I think it will come in. IMO [/*]

1) He lied about no sexual contact between Maria and CAL

2) He could have been reprimanded for giving a false statement and have a blemish on his otherwise 'stellar' record

3) He didn't want to pay child support for the next 18 years. (Rae Carruth had Cherica Adams killed so he wouldn't have to pay child support)

4) He lied to his wife when he said no sex and Gabriel wasn't his quite possibly risking the loss of his own child

Oh the list can go on and on.


And I don't buy the notion that Maria slit her own throat either---that's just not a woman thing. To me if a woman is going to commit suicide, they would do it by swallowing a bottle of pills, slitting their wrists and/or shooting themselves.

And no jury will buy into that notion either, IMO.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by bkwits


That's an interesting question and I almost posted it.

The rape allegation doesn't have to be "true" to come into the trial. Cesar could be telling the truth that he never had sex with Maria (I don't believe it), but would the "false" rape allegation would still be motive. IMO [/*]

I do think Maria and Cesar were intimate. But if the DNA doesn't show Cesar to be the baby's father, and since the rape allegations were never proven, I don't think a judge would allow any of that in evidence at the trial.

Just my opinion.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Cardinal


But suppose, SUPPOSE, Cesar is not Gabriel's father. In that case, how would they bring in any of the allegations at trial?

Hi, everybody :seeya:

Happy Birthday CK!!!! [/*]

:eek: Now that is what I would definitely call a bizarre twist and turn!

Keeping my fingers crossed that he is indeed Gabriel's father, because otherwise if Gabriel wasn't his, then why the need to kill Maria since she was carrying the child who could possibly prove he wasn't the father and therefore no sexual contact?

JMO

[JanDoe]

outside of the MC investigation....

witnesses can testify that ML and CL worked together

that ML stated that CL was the father

CL stated that he was not...

whether the baby turns out to be CL's or not
either way the jury will understand through
witnesses the disagreement that existed.....jmo

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


:eek: Now that is what I would definitely call a bizarre twist and turn!

Keeping my fingers crossed that he is indeed Gabriel's father, because otherwise if Gabriel wasn't his, then why the need to kill Maria since she was carrying the child who could possibly prove he wasn't the father and therefore no sexual contact?

JMO [/*]

I can't answer that, nuttin. But I think it's interesting that the DNA results have been kept under wraps, when publicizing them would trigger renewed interest in tracking down Cesar. So I wonder........

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Cardinal


I do think Maria and Cesar were intimate. But if the DNA doesn't show Cesar to be the baby's father, and since the rape allegations were never proven, I don't think a judge would allow any of that in evidence at the trial.

Just my opinion. [/*]

I would be happy to see Cesar on trial regardless of whether this comes in or not. I hope we live long enough to see it. :(

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by JanDoe
outside of the MC investigation....

witnesses can testify that ML and CL worked together

that ML stated that CL was the father

CL stated that he was not...

whether the baby turns out to be CL's or not
either way the jury will understand through
witnesses the disagreement that existed.....jmo [/*]

But Jan, IF witnesses testify that Maria claimed Cesar was the father of her baby, and DNA proves otherwise, that will just further damage Maria's credibility, won't it?

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by bkwits


I would be happy to see Cesar on trial regardless of whether this comes in or not. I hope we live long enough to see it. :( [/*]

You and me both, bk. I pray for it.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by JanDoe
outside of the MC investigation....

witnesses can testify that ML and CL worked together

that ML stated that CL was the father

CL stated that he was not...

whether the baby turns out to be CL's or not
either way the jury will understand through
witnesses the disagreement that existed.....jmo [/*]

And for all we know, Maria may have gone over there to tell CAL he wasn't the father and that started the firestorm that ended with her and Gabriel's murder. <not saying this really happened---just speculating, so don't hammer on me, please>

jmo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by bkwits


I would be happy to see Cesar on trial regardless of whether this comes in or not. I hope we live long enough to see it. :( [/*]

Me too bkwits, me too. And the sooner the better for all our sakes.

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe
outside of the MC investigation....

witnesses can testify that ML and CL worked together

that ML stated that CL was the father

CL stated that he was not...

whether the baby turns out to be CL's or not
either way the jury will understand through
witnesses the disagreement that existed.....jmo [/*]

Can they do that? Wouldn't that be considered hearsay since Maria is not here to substantiate it?

Now I know statements made by the defendant can come in but he is alive so he can face his accusers in a court of law.

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Cardinal


But Jan, IF witnesses testify that Maria claimed Cesar was the father of her baby, and DNA proves otherwise, that will just further damage Maria's credibility, won't it? [/*]

to me it only proves that a disagreement existed between them....and that disagreement escalated into murder.....
she's dead and he is on the run.......that was not the only solution to the disagreement...imo

so ML's credibility will not keep CL clear from some kind of murder rap

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Cardinal


But Jan, IF witnesses testify that Maria claimed Cesar was the father of her baby, and DNA proves otherwise, that will just further damage Maria's credibility, won't it? [/*]

Are you talking about the murder case or the MC (possible) court martial?

How does Maria's credibility impact on the murder case, or does it?

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by JanDoe


to me it only proves that a disagreement existed between them....and that disagreement escalated into murder.....
she's dead and he is on the run.......that was not the only solution to the disagreement...imo

so ML's credibility will not keep CL clear from some kind of murder rap [/*]

Oh, I absolutely agree that it won't impact the murder rap. I'm just not as sure the whole rape allegation/paternity issue can be brought into evidence.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Can they do that? Wouldn't that be considered hearsay since Maria is not here to substantiate it?

Now I know statements made by the defendant can come in but he is alive so he can face his accusers in a court of law.

imoo [/*]

It maybe considered hearsay but I'm sure the State will put Mary Lauterbach and Peter Steiner on the stand to corrobrate Maria's allegation to the rape/parentage of Gabriel. And there's the possibility that they may also call some of her other acquaintances too.

jmo

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by bkwits


Are you talking about the murder case or the MC (possible) court martial?

How does Maria's credibility impact on the murder case, or does it? [/*]

I was responding to a post that others could testify that Maria believed Cesar was the father of her baby. IF DNA proves otherwise, a good defense attorney could use that to further impeach her credibility and keep the rape allegation out of evidence. I think.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Cardinal


Oh, I absolutely agree that it won't impact the murder rap. I'm just not as sure the whole rape allegation/paternity issue can be brought into evidence. [/*]

I don't think they will have to bring in the rape allegation.....but they can show that the two knew each other and they had a disagreement.....

witnesses testify all the time about friends and family......

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by bkwits


Are you talking about the murder case or the MC (possible) court martial?

How does Maria's credibility impact on the murder case, or does it? [/*]

CAL will be court martialed, most definitely.

[Kel65]

Newbie here. Been lurking for a while.

I live in Louisville, KY and have since this past June. I moved here from Jacksonville, NC. I lived there for 3 years on the Southwest side of town towards MCAS New River. My husband is a retired Marine, as of June 1 this past year. He was stationed at MCAS New River, during our time in J’ville.

I’ve found some interesting information that I thought I’d pass along. Not sure what value it will add, but it may help us develop a better understanding of Maria and her family.

Below is a link from Marc Lauterbach (Steven Lauterbach’s son) regarding some information about Maria’s bio parents. I’m very curious as to who they are and have a theory. It is based on Maria being born in Orange City, Florida. From my sleuthing, the only branch of the family that I have been able to tie to Florida is the Sherk family. Presently they live in TN, VA and AK, but resided in Florida during the late 1980s.

Below are links to Mary’s family (Hollenkamp) reunion in 2004 in the Chicago area. Lots of relatives listed, detail of who attended the reunion and some pictures. Lots of relatives with clefts in their chin. It is definitely a dominant family trait.

I hope I have followed proper protocol with posting links found on a public domain. I'd hate to get banned my first day.

http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/ (http://)
http://schoenbergerwebs.com/Hollenkampreunion (http://)

[strick10]

Originally posted by IvySterling

:) at "seeing me", I'm usually always here, but mainly read and talk alot out loud to the posts.

Even IF the unborn's DNA matches CAL, it won't prove rape as we all know. [/*]

Glad to know I'm not hte only one that talks outloud to the computer screen at this boards posters. Many of the posters read my mind and post what I'm thinking before I can. :D and I agree w/ you DNA won't prove the rape.

[Kel65]

The frown was supposed to be after I hope I don't get banned. I think I have a learning curve to overcome.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Kel65
Newbie here. Been lurking for a while.

I live in Louisville, KY and have since this past June. I moved here from Jacksonville, NC. I lived there for 3 years on the Southwest side of town towards MCAS New River. My husband is a retired Marine, as of June 1 this past year. He was stationed at MCAS New River, during our time in J’ville.

I’ve found some interesting information that I thought I’d pass along. Not sure what value it will add, but it may help us develop a better understanding of Maria and her family.

Below is a link from Marc Lauterbach (Steven Lauterbach’s son) regarding some information about Maria’s bio parents. I’m very curious as to who they are and have a theory. It is based on Maria being born in Orange City, Florida. From my sleuthing, the only branch of the family that I have been able to tie to Florida is the Sherk family. Presently they live in TN, VA and AK, but resided in Florida during the late 1980s.

Below are links to Mary’s family (Hollenkamp) reunion in 2004 in the Chicago area. Lots of relatives listed, detail of who attended the reunion and some pictures. Lots of relatives with clefts in their chin. It is definitely a dominant family trait.

I hope I have followed proper protocol with posting links found on a public domain. I'd hate to get banned my first day.

http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/ (http://)
http://schoenbergerwebs.com/Hollenkampreunion (http://) [/*]

I can't get your links to open, but I have previously seen the all seaming eye site. Very interesting and informative!

Welcome! :seeya:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Kel65
Newbie here. Been lurking for a while.

I live in Louisville, KY and have since this past June. I moved here from Jacksonville, NC. I lived there for 3 years on the Southwest side of town towards MCAS New River. My husband is a retired Marine, as of June 1 this past year. He was stationed at MCAS New River, during our time in J’ville.

I’ve found some interesting information that I thought I’d pass along. Not sure what value it will add, but it may help us develop a better understanding of Maria and her family.

Below is a link from Marc Lauterbach (Steven Lauterbach’s son) regarding some information about Maria’s bio parents. I’m very curious as to who they are and have a theory. It is based on Maria being born in Orange City, Florida. From my sleuthing, the only branch of the family that I have been able to tie to Florida is the Sherk family. Presently they live in TN, VA and AK, but resided in Florida during the late 1980s.

Below are links to Mary’s family (Hollenkamp) reunion in 2004 in the Chicago area. Lots of relatives listed, detail of who attended the reunion and some pictures. Lots of relatives with clefts in their chin. It is definitely a dominant family trait.

I hope I have followed proper protocol with posting links found on a public domain. I'd hate to get banned my first day.

http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/ (http://)
http://schoenbergerwebs.com/Hollenkampreunion (http://) [/*]

:seeya: Thanks for the info.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


And for all we know, Maria may have gone over there to tell CAL he wasn't the father and that started the firestorm that ended with her and Gabriel's murder. <not saying this really happened---just speculating, so don't hammer on me, please>

jmo [/*]
I've often thought of this idea nuttin, including telling him she was NOT having a son that he may have thought was his.

She did later say she didn't think the pregnancy was from the Rape, but didn't withdraw the Rape charges IIRC.

[Marcia3]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kel65
Newbie here. Been lurking for a while.

I live in Louisville, KY and have since this past June. I moved here from Jacksonville, NC. I lived there for 3 years on the Southwest side of town towards MCAS New River. My husband is a retired Marine, as of June 1 this past year. He was stationed at MCAS New River, during our time in J’ville.

Snipped for length, not content.

Welcome to the board, kel65! I love Louisville. Go there several times a year for work. One of my favorite cities.

Thanks for the links. I haven't looked at the links yet, but it's interesting to ponder.

:seeya:

[gaelicpeas]

If CL is not the father of the baby, then we are in for a "whole 'nother can of worms", IMO. Because it brings in evidence of another male in the picture...

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Cardinal


I was responding to a post that others could testify that Maria believed Cesar was the father of her baby. IF DNA proves otherwise, a good defense attorney could use that to further impeach her credibility and keep the rape allegation out of evidence. I think. [/*]

Ok, I get it. But I was thinking the fact that she accused him of the rape (even if he didn't rape her) would be motive. And the fact (if proven) that Gabriel was not Cesar's may make him seem less cruel and heartless (if that can happen). IMO

We just don't know what kind of defense they will offer, of course.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by bkwits


Ok, I get it. But I was thinking the fact that she accused him of the rape (even if he didn't rape her) would be motive. And the fact (if proven) that Gabriel was not Cesar's may make him seem less cruel and heartless (if that can happen). IMO

We just don't know what kind of defense they will offer, of course. [/*]

No, we don't. Among the multitude of things we don't know. :)

I understand that some posters are comfortable deciding the facts already, at this stage, and that's fine. I'm just not able to do that. Until we know more, I think anything reasonable is fair speculation.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
Nite!

:seeya:
AB

see ya in the morning [/*]


Night, AB. :seeya:

Sending you good thoughts.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
Nite!

:seeya:
AB

see ya in the morning [/*]
Nite AB :seeya:

[bkwits]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
Nite!

:seeya:
AB

see ya in the morning [/*]


Nite Annie

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Cardinal


No, we don't. Among the multitude of things we don't know. :)

I understand that some posters are comfortable deciding the facts already, at this stage, and that's fine. I'm just not able to do that. Until we know more, I think anything reasonable is fair speculation.

JMO [/*]

I probably wrote that incorrectly. I think it is most likely that Gabriel was Cesar's child from what we now "think" we know. I shouldn't have used the word "fact" so loosely. JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I can't get your links to open, but I have previously seen the all seaming eye site. Very interesting and informative!

Welcome! :seeya: [/*]

Cryme, write the link down on paper and enter it, that's what I had to do because each time I clicked on the links, it only showed the link coming up as http:/// and nothing more.

[Kel65]

I'll work on my link posting

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by bkwits


I probably wrote that incorrectly. I think it is most likely that Gabriel was Cesar's child from what we now "think" we know. I shouldn't have used the word "fact" so loosely. JMO [/*]

I didn't even notice that, bk, and what I said was not directed at you, or anyone, specifically.

I think this case evokes really strong feelings in all of us. Parts of it resonate particularly strongly for me personally, and I imagine that's true with all of us.

All I meant was, I'm trying really hard to wait for the facts before taking a definitive position about what happened. And until we get them...IF we ever get them, at this rate...I'm willing to consider reasonable speculation and theory.

I'm proud to be a part of this board, to be among so many people who genuinely care about Maria and Gabriel, even though we didn't know them. Considering different opinions and ideas, for me, in no way means we don't care and want justice for them.

That's all for me tonight. Have a good evening everyone. :seeya:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


Ok, I get it. But I was thinking the fact that she accused him of the rape (even if he didn't rape her) would be motive. And the fact (if proven) that Gabriel was not Cesar's may make him seem less cruel and heartless (if that can happen). IMO

We just don't know what kind of defense they will offer, of course. [/*]

I think you are right on point.

Maybe the defense wants the rape allegations to come in. Maybe they think there is enough in the investigation and files that would show a reasonable jury that there was no rape.

And if the jury believed that then I do think they would look at CL differently. If he were to testify that he told Maria to leave him alone that he was trying to save his marriage and calls were found coming from Maria to him anyway then again the jury would digest this case differently.

His lawyer would say that Maria drove him over the edge and he snapped when she came to his and his wife's home. If he had given her money before then and they have found that then he could say she was trying to blackmail him because she was angry he didn't leave CSL for her.

Then the murder wouldn't be premeditated but one done in extreme state of high emotional passion.

Now this is just far fetched musings and only for an example but I have no doubt that his lawyer will give the DA a run for his money.

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Cardinal


I didn't even notice that, bk, and what I said was not directed at you, or anyone, specifically.

I think this case evokes really strong feelings in all of us. Parts of it resonate particularly strongly for me personally, and I imagine that's true with all of us.

All I meant was, I'm trying really hard to wait for the facts before taking a definitive position about what happened. And until we get them...IF we ever get them, at this rate...I'm willing to consider reasonable speculation and theory.

I'm proud to be a part of this board, to be among so many people who genuinely care about Maria and Gabriel, even though we didn't know them. Considering different opinions and ideas, for me, in no way means we don't care and want justice for them.

That's all for me tonight. Have a good evening everyone. :seeya: [/*]


:seeya: Nite

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Kel65
I'll work on my link posting [/*]

For some reason, you can't just clink on your links, but if you copy and paste them to a browser, they work fine. Thanks for the info and welcome to the board!

[Kel65]

Kind of amazing what is so easily found on the web with a few simple key word searches. JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

WOW....Nancy is covering a Marine case of possible animal abuse.

She just described Cesar as allegedly killing the lover of his unborn child if my mind is intact. She was talking about this being a black eye for the USMC.

I hope Cesar is caught soon. JMO.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Kel65
Kind of amazing what is so easily found on the web with a few simple key word searches. JMO [/*]

Hi and welcome Kel. You still might want to PM Coldwater and make sure it's okay as I know you don't want to be poofed on your first day of posting. JMOOC.

I look forward to reading more of your posting. :seeya:

[Kel65]

Well, if I am poofed for something that was easily found on a public domain regarding insight to Maria's life and my link to it didn't even work, then maybe it is a sign.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES
WOW....Nancy is covering a Marine case of possible animal abuse.

She just described Cesar as allegedly killing the lover of his unborn child if my mind is intact. She was talking about this being a black eye for the USMC.

I hope Cesar is caught soon. JMO. [/*]

I saw where the video of the Marine throwing the puppy and then saying oops I tripped was on youtube and youtube pulled it (but it's available at other places on the 'net). I do not know what possesses people to do such despicable things especially to the innocents.



jmo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Kel65
Well, if I am poofed for something that was easily found on a public domain regarding insight to Maria's life and my link to it didn't even work, then maybe it is a sign. [/*]

So do you have any theories on this case Kel?

[Kel65]

Nothing monumental about her time in Jacksonville that hasn't already been hashed out here.

I wish I concusivley knew more about her as a person. That is why I found the websites that I did so interesting. No malice, just pure curiosity.

She was very young and probably naiive in a lot of ways. I think back to how I was at her age and I am amazed that I am still around. I must have a very good guardian angel or be extremely lucky.