Feb 2008 Patty Fornicola Thread

[Politigal]

And, *if* they were such soulmates, why did Patty - right off the bat - in the first press conference - *****ume that Gricar had left of his own accord - by stating "we will wait for as long as we need to" ??

Why did she not first think that maybe he was kidnapped or met with foul play? After all, he was a well-known DA who had helped send lots of people to prison. Wasn't it posted that even her brother Tom commented to her during the call that Gricar had prosecuted lots of cases, as if to imply he could be in danger?

[J. J. in Phila]

And, *if* they were such soulmates, why did Patty - right off the bat - in the first press conference - *****ume that Gricar had left of his own accord - by stating "we will wait for as long as we need to" ??

Why did she not first think that maybe he was kidnapped or met with foul play? After all, he was a well-known DA who had helped send lots of people to prison. Wasn't it posted that even her brother Tom commented to her during the call that Gricar had prosecuted lots of cases, as if to imply he could be in danger?


So did LG.

I would guess that both would for some of the same reasons. No evidence of violence. No ransom demand in the case of kidnapping. Wishful thinking. It was not posted that Tom said anything regarding cases. The report in the press was that he thought there was nothing to worry about.

There could be another reason, and the reason she "holds out hope." PEF was obviously close to RFG. And we know that some of his close friends think he walked away. He might have given her some, oblique, indication that he was interested in walking away.

[J. J. in Phila]

A quote of what PEF's brother appears on post 138 of this thread, from UTR:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=304497&page=4

It bears no resemblance to P'gal's claim.

[Politigal]

And, *if* they were such soulmates, why did Patty - right off the bat - in the first press conference - *****ume that Gricar had left of his own accord - by stating "we will wait for as long as we need to" ??

Why did she not first think that maybe he was kidnapped or met with foul play? After all, he was a well-known DA who had helped send lots of people to prison. Wasn't it posted that even her brother Tom commented to her during the call that Gricar had prosecuted lots of cases, as if to imply he could be in danger?

I wanted to add, that I definitely recall Tom's comments being discussed on the board quite some time ago...but many of those threads have since been purged.

On another note, I had questioned why Patty didn't just drive 6/10 of a mile to the courthouse to see if Gricar was working...even tho' he has a cell phone...

I asked because in Patty's interview with Greta Van Sustern, Patty commented that it wasn't unusual for Gricar to not have his phone with him.

http://tinyurl.com/69dm6v

FORNICOLA: No. The ashes are certainly unusual since we both don't smoke. I have no idea where the laptop is and as far as the cell phone, I don't really think that that's that unusual because sometimes when we would go away he wouldn't even take the cell phone.

[J. J. in Phila]

I wanted to add, that I definitely recall Tom's comments being discussed on the board quite some time ago...but many of those threads have since been purged.

On another note, I had questioned why Patty didn't just drive 6/10 of a mile to the courthouse to see if Gricar was working...even tho' he has a cell phone...

I asked because in Patty's interview with Greta Van Sustern, Patty commented that it wasn't unusual for Gricar to not have his phone with him.

http://tinyurl.com/69dm6v

FORNICOLA: No. The ashes are certainly unusual since we both don't smoke. I have no idea where the laptop is and as far as the cell phone, I don't really think that that's that unusual because sometimes when we would go away he wouldn't even take the cell phone.

The thread was not purged and has been cited. The quote from PEF's brother bears no resemblance to P'gal's claim.

IIRC, she might not have been given access to the office as she certainly wasn't an elected official or senior staff.

Also keep in mind that PEF had known that RFG had his phone with him, because he called her earlier, from the road.

[Politigal]

I also still question why Patty didn't phone Gricar's best friend when he didn't come home...Stephen Sloane lived in State College...

Surely since Patty worked in the same office, she had the cell numbers of all the other asst da's.

[Cloudbuster]

Maybe she is not fond of him.

[J. J. in Phila]

Maybe she is not fond of him.

He was also recovering from an accident and she may have thought if RFG was out with someone, he'd call.

[Politigal]

Maybe she is not fond of him.

that's possible....I heard she was much closer to Mark Smith.

[Cloudbuster]

I think PF was busy early on before Ray disappeared planning a retirement party for him.

Down the hill from the courthouse, at the Gamble Mill Restaurant, Heidt-Nixdorf says she doesn't want to talk about a report that Fornicola had stopped by earlier in April to plan a surprise retirement party for Gricar in the fall.

It's not because the cops have told her not to talk about it, she explained. It's just that she doesn't want to ruin the surprise if and when Gricar suddenly turns up.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1402467/posts

[Politigal]

And, *if* they were such soulmates, why did Patty - right off the bat - in the first press conference - *****ume that Gricar had left of his own accord - by stating "we will wait for as long as we need to" ??

Why did she not first think that maybe he was kidnapped or met with foul play? After all, he was a well-known DA who had helped send lots of people to prison. Wasn't it posted that even her brother Tom commented to her during the call that Gricar had prosecuted lots of cases, as if to imply he could be in danger?

I found the post I was looking for, where UndertheRader quoted Billywahoo and also referred to a report by Erin Nissley on what Tom Fornicola told Patty when she phoned him:

Originally posted by Politigal
posted by Billywahoo

billywahoo
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i think some of you might be misinterpreting the phone call into the office. he was clearly calling to speak to patty, or catch her voicemail, it just so happens that she was also the person who answered the phone. patty's concern began to grow when she called him in the early evening. she received no response, so she periodically continued to call. when it became very late, she asked her brother if she was being paranoid, he said "no" since he is a public official involved in the prosecution of criminals. the decision was made to contact police, who concurred.

bada bing bada bing

So, Patty's brother suggested Gricar might be in danger....yet Patty chose to go with "we will wait for as long as we need to..."

[day2day]

I found the post I was looking for, where UndertheRader quoted Billywahoo and also referred to a report by Erin Nissley on what Tom Fornicola told Patty when she phoned him:

Originally posted by Politigal
posted by Billywahoo

billywahoo
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i think some of you might be misinterpreting the phone call into the office. he was clearly calling to speak to patty, or catch her voicemail, it just so happens that she was also the person who answered the phone. patty's concern began to grow when she called him in the early evening. she received no response, so she periodically continued to call. when it became very late, she asked her brother if she was being paranoid, he said "no" since he is a public official involved in the prosecution of criminals. the decision was made to contact police, who concurred.

bada bing bada bing

So, Patty's brother suggested Gricar might be in danger....yet Patty chose to go with "we will wait for as long as we need to..."

Things that make ya go "hmmm"~~~~

Nice find pgal!!:w00t:

[Serendipitous1]

Do you have a date to go with this reference? And, are you confusing "protocol" (which I assume entered into PF's mind) with the ordinary SO stuff?

[Politigal]

Do you have a date to go with this reference? And, are you confusing "protocol" (which I assume entered into PF's mind) with the ordinary SO stuff?

the quote above says --

"the decision was made to contact police, who concurred

Police *concurred* that due to his position Gricar might be in danger. IMO.

UndertheRadar made the post 10/23/07 - post #145 - in the thread "Do you feel PF was Fully Investigated"

[Politigal]

Things that make ya go "hmmm"~~~~

Nice find pgal!!:w00t:

I wanted to post it - to confirm that I wasn't lying, as another poster insinuated. I *knew* that it had previously been posted & that I had read it.

edited to add --

I believe Erin Nissley's report preceded other press reports about it. I'll try to find a cache of her report.

[J. J. in Phila]

I found the post I was looking for, where UndertheRader quoted Billywahoo and also referred to a report by Erin Nissley on what Tom Fornicola told Patty when she phoned him:

Originally posted by Politigal
posted by Billywahoo

billywahoo
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Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A
i think some of you might be misinterpreting the phone call into the office. he was clearly calling to speak to patty, or catch her voicemail, it just so happens that she was also the person who answered the phone. patty's concern began to grow when she called him in the early evening. she received no response, so she periodically continued to call. when it became very late, she asked her brother if she was being paranoid, he said "no" since he is a public official involved in the prosecution of criminals. the decision was made to contact police, who concurred.

bada bing bada bing

So, Patty's brother suggested Gricar might be in danger....yet Patty chose to go with "we will wait for as long as we need to..."

Except, P'gal, Billywahoo's account doesn't jibe with the press account.

He said not to worry about it and used the word "yet" and that men sometimes need some time alone. The link has been posted but is here:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12506962

Did she call him back after calling the police and ask if he thought she was overreacting?

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is clipped part from the newspaper story:

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Old 07-31-2007, 01:36 AM
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I did find a copy of it:

Although Fornicola knew Gricar wasn't planning to come to work when she spoke to him about 11:30 a.m. April 15, she felt something was wrong when he wasn't home at 5 p.m.

"But I thought, 'Oh, well. He's just been delayed,'" she said.

She went to the gym and returned home to find he still hadn't returned. She called her brother as darkness fell.

"I said, 'Maybe he just needed to get away. Don't worry yet,'" Tom Fornicola said.

But she continued to fret, calling Gricar's cell phone again and again.


http://boards.courttv.com/printthrea...&pagenumber=25


Bolding added. The link to the story has been purged.

Now, saying "Don't worry yet" isn't exactly saying anything about RFG being the subject of violence because he's a public figure. This call would be between 7:50 PM and 8:30 PM. It wasn't until about 3 hours later that the call was made.

[Politigal]

Considering the inaccuracies published in this case...i.e. the fingerprints, I have no doubt that Billywahoo's version of the call to Tom Fornicola has just as much credibility as any.

And, it was never ever reported that Patty phoned her brother for a "male perspective."

[Serendipitous1]

I absolutely believe there was and is a protocol for "family" to report anomalies, despite any expectation that the protocol would ever be needed. I am amazed that PF reported this anomaly to police when she did. She did everything right...and yet got blasted for it. She did right and yet there are those who question it...go figure.

[Politigal]

I absolutely believe there was and is a protocol for "family" to report anomalies, despite any expectation that the protocol would ever be needed. I am amazed that PF reported this anomaly to police when she did. She did everything right...and yet got blasted for it. She did right and yet there are those who question it...go figure.

How did she do everything right?

In most adult missing persons cases, don't they usually call friends, family & co-workers first?

[J. J. in Phila]

Considering the inaccuracies published in this case...i.e. the fingerprints, I have no doubt that Billywahoo's version of the call to Tom Fornicola has just as much credibility as any.

And, it was never ever reported that Patty phoned her brother for a "male perspective."

You have the report, and I can understand why she'd call, asking if she should be worried.

As for who I trust more to know the contents of a call between TF and PEF, TF or Billywahoo, it would be TF. Are you suggesting Billywahoo had the phone tapped?

[J. J. in Phila]

I absolutely believe there was and is a protocol for "family" to report anomalies, despite any expectation that the protocol would ever be needed. I am amazed that PF reported this anomaly to police when she did. She did everything right...and yet got blasted for it. She did right and yet there are those who question it...go figure.

I'll go a step further. The first 48 hours were a time when everybody did nearly everything right. Twelve hours after the last contact, she reported it and within 24 hours of the last contact, LE was checking with friends and beginning a search.

[Politigal]

I absolutely believe there was and is a protocol for "family" to report anomalies, despite any expectation that the protocol would ever be needed. I am amazed that PF reported this anomaly to police when she did. She did everything right...and yet got blasted for it. She did right and yet there are those who question it...go figure.

speaking of protocol

IMO Bellefonte was way off the mark from the get-go.

Does the state of PA actually have a missing person case investigative protocol to follow?

I know that several states do. The state of NJ has an excellent overview here:

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu_Dc_z1JnE4AWRpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyNWc0N28 yBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0gxODRfODI-/SIG=131en4fge/EXP=1228886364/**http%3a//www.state.nj.us/njsp/divorg/invest/pdf/mpi-best-practices-protocol.pdf

[J. J. in Phila]

speaking of protocol

IMO Bellefonte was way off the mark from the get-go.

Does the state of PA actually have a missing person case investigative protocol to follow?

I know that several states do. The state of NJ has an excellent overview here:

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu_Dc_z1JnE4AWRpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyNWc0N28 yBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0gxODRfODI-/SIG=131en4fge/EXP=1228886364/**http%3a//www.state.nj.us/njsp/divorg/invest/pdf/mpi-best-practices-protocol.pdf

No, and it ironically would have been a stretch to classify RFG as being "high risk," at the start. He wouldn't become high risk for 30 days, under that protocol.

[J. J. in Phila]

I wanted to post it - to confirm that I wasn't lying, as another poster insinuated. I *knew* that it had previously been posted & that I had read it.

edited to add --

I believe Erin Nissley's report preceded other press reports about it. I'll try to find a cache of her report.

You have, and have had, the verbatim story from the press, which has been discussed. When you first raised the issue, a link to another poster who had posted the same story.

Since BW was not party to the call, unless you are suggesting that BW is really PEF or TF, or tapped the phone, I go with TF said TF said.

[Politigal]

How did she do everything right?

In most adult missing persons cases, don't they usually call friends, family & co-workers first?

bumping for S1

[J. J. in Phila]

P'gal, I'd say calling the police 12 hours after last contact was "doing everything right." PEF obviously didn't know where he was and made repeated attempt to call him. She knows where he said he was 12 hours before, alond about a 30 mile stretch of rural highway.

[Politigal]

How did she do everything right?

In most adult missing persons cases, don't they usually call friends, family & co-workers first?

S1? Why avoid this question?

[J. J. in Phila]

S1? Why avoid this question?

Perhaps because both he and I answered it.

[Politigal]

Perhaps because both he and I answered it.


The question was directed at S1 - not you & not the little guy with the pitchfork on your shoulder.

[J. J. in Phila]

The question was directed at S1 - not you & not the little guy with the pitchfork on your shoulder.

Then I would suggest that PM him. He, and I answered it.

And I can assure you that your brother is not on my shoulder.

[Serendipitous1]

S1? Why avoid this question?Because, sometimes it is best to say no more...something the "answer grape" should take to heart.

[Politigal]

I posted it a long time ago but thought I'd post again....times are approx, taken from media sources:


8:30pm Thursday (Gricar left work late) til 8:00am Friday (Patty went to work) - 11.5 hrs

12-1pm Friday lunch - 1 hr

(4:30-5:30pm Friday gym)

5:30pm-8:30pm (she phoned her brother 8:30pm) - 3 hrs

8:31pm Friday -10am Saturday (when police actually initiated their investigation) - 13.5 hrs

Hours that Patty can't be accounted for = 29 hrs

Plenty of time there for cleaning/disposing of evidence, or going to Lewisburg, one or more times, with a buddy or alone.

[J. J. in Phila]

Boy oh boy, P'gal can you really screw things up.

4/15/05

PEF at work: 8:30-4:30, with a one hour lunch break. It's more than a 2 hour round trip to Lewisburg, so she couldn't have driven there.

There is higher traffic in the area in the late afternoon, so figure about a 2.25 hour round trip to Lewisburg. Even if she left from the Courthouse, it's 6:45, minimum, to go there and back, not even getting out of her car.

Sometime prior to 7:50 PM, she went to the gym (it sounds like she was there between 5:30 and 6:30PM). Unless she was wearing a Danskin at the office, she had to change. That should be about an hour plus. There is higher traffic in the area in the late afternoon.

Prior to 8:20 she called her brother. Then she made repeated calls to RFG's cell phone, and there is a record of from where she called.

PEF called the BPD between 11:00-11:30 PM. After that, she can't do anything. LE might show up to take a report; the Lewisburg police might discover 5 minutes after the ABP is sent out. It was unknowable what would happen after that.

So, we have RFG on video at 9:03 PM 4/14/05, but we have at least 4 witnesses that put him in the Mini either in or near Lewisburg on 4/15/05 between 5:00 PM and 5:30 PM (at the earliest).

Now, expect for a family member living in the house, who else sees either RFG or PEF while they are in bed?

[J. J. in Phila]

I had a great, "Patty dunit" theory, until the facts got in the way.

[Politigal]

The *fact* is....there are several HOURS unaccounted for in Patty's timeline.

[J. J. in Phila]

Fact is, between c. 8:30 AM and when she called the police (11:00-11:30 PM), there was never a big enough gap in time for here to have gotten to Lewisburg and back to Bellefonte.

Fact is, there is overwhelming evidence that RFG was alive in Lewisburg at 5:30 PM.

Kepp spinning P'gal. :lol:

[gstickley]

Tell me again how far it is from Bellefone to Lewisburg.
Also, tell me again what the roadway is like between the two places.
Please.

[J. J. in Phila]

Tell me again how far it is from Bellefone to Lewisburg.
Also, tell me again what the roadway is like between the two places.
Please.

The theoretically quickest way is via I-80, which is just over 125 miles round trip and about 2 hours 4 minutes round trip.

Via Route 192, it's 112 miles, but takes 3 hours 20 minutes round trip.

Both assume no traffic and UTR has made a point of how "everyone" uses 192, and how terrible I-80 is. I used I-80 for the time, and added about ten minutes for Bellefonte and Lewisburg traffic.

That assumes just driving there, not stopping. There would be some traffic, at least slight, in Lewisburg and Bellefonte on a late Friday afternoon.

By Central Pennsylvania standards, it is not a long trip.

[Politigal]

The theoretically quickest way is via I-80, which is just over 125 miles round trip and about 2 hours 4 minutes round trip.

Via Route 192, it's 112 miles, but takes 3 hours 20 minutes round trip.

Both assume no traffic and UTR has made a point of how "everyone" uses 192, and how terrible I-80 is. I used I-80 for the time, and added about ten minutes for Bellefonte and Lewisburg traffic.

That assumes just driving there, not stopping. There would be some traffic, at least slight, in Lewisburg and Bellefonte on a late Friday afternoon.

By Central Pennsylvania standards, it is not a long trip.

29 unaccounted for hours gives plenty of time to make several trips then...

[J. J. in Phila]

29 unaccounted for hours gives plenty of time to make several trips then...


No it isn't P'gal. :rolleyes:

Let's say that there is an hour gap. PEF is accounted for at 4:30 PM and then accounted for at 5:30 PM. She could get most of the way to Lewisburg, but then she has to magically appear back in Bellefonte. At best, she could drive for about a half hour, getting nowhere near Lewisburg, and then turn around and drive back to Bellefonte, because that's where she's seen.

You'd be better off coming up with a cloning scenario. :biggrinjester:

[UndertheRadar]

Whoa again, cowboy. You need a better memory, or better reading comprehension, or both.

I have said that if one were going to take a leisurely drive to relax or to do some sightseeing, I-80 would not be the choice.

I have never said "everyone uses 192."

If fact, if you were to ask me the easiest route between Centre Hall and Lewisburg, I would tell you to take 45. That's the one most people use if they're looking for a direct route and they want to avoid the truck traffic and frequent construction and back-ups on I-80.

If you just wanted to "unwind," enjoy driving a nifty little sports car a bit, then 192 would be the best choice.

THAT is what I have said.

[J. J. in Phila]

UTR, you've brought up heavy traffic, construction, and accidents on I-80. I do not believe they are serious issues, so I treated I-80 as the quickest route. If you are correct it isn't.

And keep in mind we are not referring to Centre Hall as the starting point, but Bellefonte.

Even using Route 45, it is still 2 hours, 42 minutes, round trip, without taking into traffic in both Lewisburg and Bellefonte (I've figured about 10 minutes, but that is probably conservative).

Now, I've used the shortest route, time wise, the one you don't particularly like, and it's still 2 hours 15 minutes, with traffic, round trip.

[gstickley]

2 hrs., 42 min.
8:30 to 11:00-11:30
Yep, just about 2 hrs., 42 min. exactly. :thumbsup:

[J. J. in Phila]

2 hrs., 42 min.
8:30 to 11:00-11:30
Yep, just about 2 hrs., 42 min. exactly. :thumbsup:

I'm glad you think that PF can drive part of the way to to Lewisburg then magically reappear in Bellefonte. :rolleyes:


Keep spinning GS. :lol:

[gstickley]

I'm glad you think that PF can drive part of the way to to Lewisburg then magically reappear in Bellefonte. :rolleyes:


Keep spinning GS. :lol:

Just going by what you said, Arnold, since you know everything:

Even using Route 45, it is still 2 hours, 42 minutes, round trip, without taking into traffic in both Lewisburg and Bellefonte (I've figured about 10 minutes, but that is probably conservative).

[J. J. in Phila]

Just going by what you said, Arnold, since you know everything:

Even using Route 45, it is still 2 hours, 42 minutes, round trip, without taking into traffic in both Lewisburg and Bellefonte (I've figured about 10 minutes, but that is probably conservative).

GS, P'gal mentioned a lunch hour. Please explain how PEF can drive 2 hours, 42 minutes in one hour? Is this like seeing a photo on the radio?

From what has been reported between 8:30 AM and the time she called the BPD, there isn't a 2 hours, 42 minutes in her time line. Or one of 2 hours and 15 minutes.

I wonder if the "Spin Sister" has understood.

[J. J. in Phila]

BTW: When I first started looking at the case, I missed the article about her going to the gym. I think it was UTR or Lustor who mentioned it. That was my last realistic "Patty Dunnit" theory.

[Politigal]

I stand by the times I posted.

Patty had all night Thursday night, after work Friday, and all night Friday til 10 am Sat when police actually initiated their investigation. The APB wasn't issued until late Saturday morning.

She had *ample* time to make numerous trips to Lewisburg.

[J. J. in Phila]

I stand by the times I posted.

Patty had all night Thursday night, after work Friday, and all night Friday til 10 am Sat when police actually initiated their investigation. The APB wasn't issued until late Saturday morning.

She had *ample* time to make numerous trips to Lewisburg.

Then you just fell down. Probably all that spinning made you dizzy. :lol:

The APB was issued after PEF's call, though it could have been just after midnight.

She also went to the gym after work. There isn't enough time for PEF to have gotten to Lewisburg and back and made the calls to RFG's cell phone. That is something that has been reported, the the actual records were not released.

In short, RFG was in Lewisburg at 5:30 PM, and between then and the time she called the BPD there does not seem to have been enough time for her to have driven to Lewisburg and back. She doesn't have a a big enoughtime gap to have done it.

No P'gal, while you might ask the police to put out an APB on a car and then try to drive it in excess of 50 miles, anyone thinking out a crime wouldn't. You really don't to be behind the wheel of a car that have just reported missing.

[gstickley]

GS, P'gal mentioned a lunch hour. Please explain how PEF can drive 2 hours, 42 minutes in one hour? Is this like seeing a photo on the radio?

From what has been reported between 8:30 AM and the time she called the BPD, there isn't a 2 hours, 42 minutes in her time line. Or one of 2 hours and 15 minutes.

I wonder if the "Spin Sister" has understood.

Hey Arnold. I'm talking about Fri., 04/15. 8:30 PM until 11:00-11:30 PM. 2 hrs., 42 min. Time to make the trip from Bellefonte to Lewisburg & back. Fri. 04/15. Got it yet??? :bored:

[J. J. in Phila]

Hey Arnold. I'm talking about Fri., 04/15. 8:30 PM until 11:00-11:30 PM. 2 hrs., 42 min. Time to make the trip from Bellefonte to Lewisburg & back. Fri. 04/15. Got it yet??? :bored:

Still dizzy from spinning, I see. :lol:

8:30 PM to 11:30 PM, she's making repeated calls to RFG's cell phone. If she was on a cell, they know the towers. If it's the land line, she'd need a 50 mile extension cord.

You must be desperate. :rolleyes:

[J. J. in Phila]

Like I said, I had a great theory, until the facts intervened. :)

[Politigal]

I think JJ's wrong....

the APB wasn't issued until late Saturday morning...

after all, Zaccagni had thought that Gricar was just "out"...

I previously posted about the APB and actually found a post from one of the air searchers and he posted the time it was issued, etc. Of course, those threads are long gone.

[J. J. in Phila]

I think JJ's wrong....

the APB wasn't issued until late Saturday morning...

after all, Zaccagni had thought that Gricar was just "out"...

I previously posted about the APB and actually found a post from one of the air searchers and he posted the time it was issued, etc. Of course, those threads are long gone.


11:30 p.m. April 15: Fornicola calls Bellefonte police to report Gricar missing. Police immediately send out a bulletin to local police agencies and begin speaking to Gricar's family and friends.

http://www.missingabducted.com/2005/11/index.html

Orriginally from the CDT. Want to try again?

:lol: Spin, P'gal, spin. :lol:

[Politigal]

add to that...

Even JJ posted previously (back in February) that the APB was issued on Saturday:

posted by JJ 2/17/08 - 8:22pm - post #170
LE put out an APB and began a ground search in the area (about 20-40 miles from where the car was found) where the call came from on the next morning.

[Politigal]

11:30 p.m. April 15: Fornicola calls Bellefonte police to report Gricar missing. Police immediately send out a bulletin to local police agencies and begin speaking to Gricar's family and friends.

http://www.missingabducted.com/2005/11/index.html

Orriginally from the CDT. Want to try again?

:lol: Spin, P'gal, spin. :lol:


JJ, you know as well as I do that police did *not* speak to any of Gricar's family or friends Friday night.

You are the one who is spinning.

[Politigal]

As I previously posted, one of the searchers actually involved in the air search had previously posted on another forum that the APB was issued late Sat morning. IIRC, it was approx 11:16 am when it was issued...

[J. J. in Phila]

add to that...

Even JJ posted previously (back in February) that the APB was issued on Saturday:

posted by JJ 2/17/08 - 8:22pm - post #170
LE put out an APB and began a ground search in the area (about 20-40 miles from where the car was found) where the call came from on the next morning.


They began the search the next day; the BPD sent out the bulletin almost immediately (I've heard DZ called Dixon and Dixon said to do it, but I don't know for sure). The search began on 4/16, but the bulletin was send out just after PEF called. :rolleyes:

Same citation:

1:30 p.m. April 16: A police helicopter and state police patrols search the area between Centre Hall and Rebersburg for signs of Gricar or his red-and-white Mini Cooper.

Ah, that's why I posted the link.

Keeeeep :lol: spinnnnnnning.

[J. J. in Phila]

As I previously posted, one of the searchers actually involved in the air search had previously posted on another forum that the APB was issued late Sat morning. IIRC, it was approx 11:16 am when it was issued...


Do you have a link. When it was previously mentioned here, IIRC, it was issued that night.

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, you know as well as I do that police did *not* speak to any of Gricar's family or friends Friday night.

You are the one who is spinning.

No, I don't. I know that JKA indicated that other people had been called prior to her.

[gstickley]

DZ didn't get a real early start . . . From KA's MM.

]"On the morning of Saturday, April 16, 2005, around 11-11:30 AM, I was making preparations to leave for the trip when I received a phone call at home from Officer Zaccagni telling me that Ray had not returned home the preceding evening. [/B] It was presented more as a curious situation than necessarily a foreboding one and he indicated that he was calling each of the staff to ask if anyone had information. I was asked if I had noticed anything unusual about Ray's behavior that week, and told him that Ray had seemed distraught about something earlier that week. I was told that he had already talked to various other staff members before calling me and that "everyone is telling me the same thing". That response has stood out for me on each occasion when I have read media statements attributed to police that there was nothing unusual about Ray’s conduct that week. I can discern no reason the comment would have been made to me at all if it were not true. And equally no reason that Ray's being distraught that week would not have become part of the public account of what was known around the time he disappeared if it were."

(snip)

[J. J. in Phila]

Ah, that's what I indicated. LE might have started some of the calls on 4/15. It is clear that they were making them prior to "11-11:30 AM."

The APB was issued soon after PEF's call, however. The search, which is different than the APB, began around 1:30 PM.

When the APB went out, LE was looking for the Mini. That was shortly after PEF's call.

[Politigal]

Gricar's family & friends were not notified until Saturday....Period.

Patty didn't phone any of them...and neither did law enforcement....until Saturday.

JJ wants to rewrite history like he's some sort of defense attorney.

[J. J. in Phila]

Gricar's family & friends were not notified until Saturday....Period.

Patty didn't phone any of them...and neither did law enforcement....until Saturday.

JJ wants to rewrite history like he's some sort of defense attorney.

Any your evidence is?

Sorry P'gal, but a few hours ago, you claimed that no APB was sent out until after 11:00 AM on Saturday. That was a false statement, according to the press. I've ask you for a link, and none has appeared.

Here is the information again:

11:30 p.m. April 15: Fornicola calls Bellefonte police to report Gricar missing. Police immediately send out a bulletin to local police agencies and begin speaking to Gricar's family and friends.

http://www.missingabducted.com/2005/11/index.html

Now you are claiming that LE contacted no one was contacted until Saturday. How do you know? Several of RFG's friends are local and may have been contacted. JKA, by her own account, was not the first one contacted, and she was contacted between 11:00 AM and 11:30 AM. LE could have very easily contacted friends/staff, in the area, prior to 1:00 AM on 4/16. The report didn't say they contacted all of his family or friends, but that the did "begin" to do so.

Sorry, P'gal, you are entitled to you own opinion, but your opinion here doesn't match what happened, as per the reports. It's just more spin. :lol:

[Serendipitous1]

Newly released audio from that walk in the park?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8hjtFq3vE0

[gstickley]

Newly released audio from that walk in the park?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8hjtFq3vE0

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one!

[Politigal]

Back to JK Arnold's googlepages....

"Except for the first month I was at the office, my assigned offices always shared a wall in common with Ray's office, so when this would happen, it was always obvious. If he was out for the day or in court, his office door generally stayed open. I cannot recall ANY occasion on which any other staff would go into his office and close the door behind them in that fashion. It occurred a NUMBER OF TIMES during that particular Thursday around mid-afternoon."

This forceful door closing still intrigues me...because of *when* it occurred.

And from info in the following article - Patty sat just "steps" from Gricar's office. Surely she noticed him doing this...and if so, why has there been no information published on what the reasons were?

http://www.carlabaron.net/forum/showthread.php?t=239

Patty Fornicola just can't help herself.

It is, after all, the door to his office.

She is at work. Typing judge's orders into the computer, perhaps. Just steps from the closed door of the inner office of the Centre County district attorney.

She hears a man's voice in the office and illogical hope swells inside her. It could be his voice. The door opens and this irrational part of her thinks she might see the brown-haired, green-eyed man she fell in love with nearly four years ago.

-----

The voice in the district attorney's office is Mark Smith, an assistant promoted to acting district attorney after Gricar's disappearance.

Furthermore, if Patty sat just steps from Gricar's door, where Mark Smith was working at that time, why would illogical hope swell up ....come on, I mean, she obviously would know who was in that office, sitting just steps away and working there all day.

[J. J. in Phila]

Oh please, P'gal, I caught myself listening for my father's breathing months after he died. People fall into patterns. :rolleyse:

The question was if the "forceful door closings" were really that forceful or if they were from RFG. She cannot identify who was closing the door or if the closings were made by someone exiting the office.

[J. J. in Phila]

BTW, I'm not blaming JKA for not being able to see through walls. :)

[day2day]

BTW, I'm not blaming JKA for not being able to see through walls. :)

C'mon J.J. of course you are!! j/k.
If only Honey could have talked and JKA coulda had the power of seeing through walls. This case would be solved. jmo!!

[Politigal]

C'mon J.J. of course you are!! j/k.
If only Honey could have talked and JKA coulda had the power of seeing through walls. This case would be solved. jmo!!

Of course, JJ was only trying to muddy the water ....again

IIRC JKA had an actual office, unlike Patty ....who sat just steps away from Gricar's office...Patty who worked as a clerk/as a receptionist...etc.

Most receptionist stations are centered in front of or surrounded by various offices...

JKA would not have had the same view of Gricar.

From the article..again:

The door opens and this irrational part of her thinks she might see the brown-haired, green-eyed man she fell in love with nearly four years ago.


Obviously, she could also probably see Gricar "forcefully" closing his door several times on the afternoon of April 15th. But, if I was a gambler, I'd bet she was *behind* that closed door with him, and the reason for the forcefulness.

[J. J. in Phila]

C'mon J.J. of course you are!! j/k.
If only Honey could have talked and JKA coulda had the power of seeing through walls. This case would be solved. jmo!!

No, JKA said very specifically what she heard, but she never says she saw anything, to her credit. She heard someone forcefully closing the door. That could have one or more people leaving the office, but not RFG.

I'm not being critical of her in the least for reporting what happened with those. We'll kinda assumed that RFG was the one closing the door; he may not have been.

[gstickley]

No, JKA said very specifically what she heard, but she never says she saw anything, to her credit. She heard someone forcefully closing the door. That could have one or more people leaving the office, but not RFG.

I'm not being critical of her in the least for reporting what happened with those. We'll kinda assumed that RFG was the one closing the door; he may not have been.

I, for one, am not assuming that it was RG closing the door. Maybe it was an irate co-worker, maybe it was someone looking for something in his office . . .