Nicholas Francisco 28, Seattle, 2-13-08 (car found)

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
I don't think anyone would say she is cold and uncaring if she continued working at her on-line business. They would think that she has to continue working to support her family and to keep busy so that she wouldn't spend her time worrying about what might have happened. They would only admire her strength.

But instead she has spent her time manipulating people into sending her donations and feeling sorry for her situation.

This is why people are so nasty toward her....they just don't like her behavior. [/*]

I think the point Musterion was making was dam*ed if she does, dam*ed if she doesn't from the way this thread and other online posts have gone.

And yes, Nasty is a great word for a lot of what has been said. Again, we are back to the donations. What does that exactly prove IF she was actually manipulating people as you say? Does that mean she killed Nick? Is that what it boils down to?

Hmmm doesn't seem like too much hard evidence to me, but as I have said before, everyone sees things through their own filter.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
I don't believe she killed Nicholas or had anything to do with his disappearance. But I do think she knows much more about what did happen to him and isn't saying. Should she tell what she knows, no one would continue looking for him and she wants him back.....desperately. Her anger is overwhelming. [/*]

Ok, let's walk down that path. WHAT do you think she knows and WHY would she hide it? Makes no sense.

And LE is not Barney Fife these days. I believe if they thought she knew or had anything to do with Nick's disappearance, they would be all over it.

BUT, I would love to hear your thoughts on what Christine knows and is hiding.

Edited to say what anger that is overwhelming. Where are you seeing this?

[desmom]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
I don't believe she killed Nicholas or had anything to do with his disappearance. But I do think she knows much more about what did happen to him and isn't saying. Should she tell what she knows, no one would continue looking for him and she wants him back.....desperately. Her anger is overwhelming. [/*]

She is angry. That is why she used the word coward!

Thanks BethE!

jmo

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by desmom


She is angry. That is why she used the word coward!

Thanks BethE!

jmo [/*]

LMAO! She said he WASNT a coward. She didn't say "that slime ball coward! How dare he!"

How is that angry? Maybe angry at all that are thinking he left when in her heart she knows he would not leave her, and that is WHY she said it.

[decor]

christine posted last night. I think it is #94

http://supportingchristine.wordpress.com/2008/02/24/supporting-christine-with-word-prayer-and-action/#comments

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth


If he hasn't broken any laws and walked out on his own, LE would not be all over it, as he didn't do anything wrong. [/*]

We do not know everything that goes on behind the scenes of cases BUT you can bet she has been interviewed at length. If LE thought she had anything to do with her husband disappearing you can bet that yes, they would be all over it. Its called THEIR JOB.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by Musterion


Beth,

My heart cannot imagine the pain you went through and still may go through having lost your brother...and then finding him yourself. I am so sorry. So sorry. My brother means the world to me and losing him would impact me beyond words.

He was your brother. Nicholas is Christine's husband. She is carrying his child. She has two beautiful babies that look shockingly like him. She was/is almost financially dependent upon him not just for her needs but for the needs of their children.

The relationship of sister and brother do not have the same dynamics that a husband and wife have. IMO. [/*]

The sad thing Musterion - is, she is allowing this to die down, she isn't in front of the news media - going to local tv stations, nothing what soever to bring him home. jmoo

[AngS]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Do you think that C suspects this - therefore her puzzling statements of "he is not a coward" or "if you don't find him, these babies won't have a daddy", and her panic over her financial situation. [/*][/QUOTE

I like how she says "If YOU don't find him, these babies won't have a daddy." Yet she can't haul her butt out to look for him herself???????????? Must be a great wife.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth


I don't think she had anything to do with her husband's disappearance. I think he had everything to do with his disappearance. "THEIR JOB" is not to drag an innocent man back home if he chooses to leave. [/*]

Well thankfully, LE hasn't just decided based on your or their opinion that he left of his own accord. He is missing. Therefore it is still THEIR JOB. lol

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Danette44


The sad thing Musterion - is, she is allowing this to die down, she isn't in front of the news media - going to local tv stations, nothing what soever to bring him home. jmoo [/*]

Wait, didnt one of you guys just get on her about actually DOING the TV interviews. I believe you just proved Musterion's point. lol

[desmom]

Originally posted by KindraLore


LMAO! She said he WASNT a coward. She didn't say "that slime ball coward! How dare he!"

How is that angry? Maybe angry at all that are thinking he left when in her heart she knows he would not leave her, and that is WHY she said it. [/*]

I don't think when she said "he is not a coward" she was trying to convince the public. IMO, she was trying to convince herself.

jmo

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Sunday Moon
And while it's not a crime to leave, we don't know if that's the case yet so this continues to be open to any and all theories and discussion.

:seeya: [/*]

Exactly. I believe that is what I am doing as well.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by AngS
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Do you think that C suspects this - therefore her puzzling statements of "he is not a coward" or "if you don't find him, these babies won't have a daddy", and her panic over her financial situation. [/*][/QUOTE

I like how she says "If YOU don't find him, these babies won't have a daddy." Yet she can't haul her butt out to look for him herself???????????? Must be a great wife. [/*]

What I do not understand (and this has been tossed around) is she says she is sure he met with foul play, but then implores LE to find him so her kids will have a daddy. If he met with foul play, they most likely will not have a daddy. This case is disturbing and puzzling.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth


Most of "us guys" are just trying to put things out there based on the information we have. We are not all going to agree, however, in light of the fact that I believe N walked out, it doesn't mean that I'm not open to believing that foul play could be a factor either. I'm just leaning more toward him walking out.

As much as you believe it was foul play, why is it so hard for you to believe that maybe, he just walked out? [/*]

Whatever I believe, even if he walked out, walking out would certainly be HIS fault, not his wife's. Shame on anyone that would do that. I dont see fit to sit and judge Christine over either of those scenarios.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by Danette44


The sad thing Musterion - is, she is allowing this to die down, she isn't in front of the news media - going to local tv stations, nothing what soever to bring him home. jmoo [/*]

Is she letting it die down? Maybe she is contacting the media and they are not responding.

[Silver_Dove]

Originally posted by KindraLore


Well thankfully, LE hasn't just decided based on your or their opinion that he left of his own accord. He is missing. Therefore it is still THEIR JOB. lol [/*]

They have searched and there is no sign of foul play or evidence and no one is coming forward with any more information.

Interesting I just noticed no one has even set up a tip line number :confused: just to call 911. Maybe not enough donations?

So my guess is LE are doing nothing at all right now till they get something to work from.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by KindraLore


Whatever I believe, even if he walked out, walking out would certainly be HIS fault, not his wife's. Shame on anyone that would do that. I dont see fit to sit and judge Christine over either of those scenarios. [/*]

You can bet your bottom dollar if Christine was the one missing, Nicholas would be under the microscope. It happens in every case so I doubt she would be an exception.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth
Believing that he walked out in no way represents judging Christine. However, if she knew he walked out and continued with this facade, would you feel differently? [/*]

Well since to me that is pretty far fetched, its hard to say.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth


And I respect that because you believe that. But, that's not what a lot of people believe. [/*]

So you believe that under LE's nose, along with his family, etc.. that together they have hatched a plan to extort money from nice, giving unsuspecting people. That's really what you believe?

That she knows where he is but instead they are going to dupe the whole world and live off a few thousand dollars people are generously giving to help find him?

Wow, then I guess they would both really be very cold people.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by KindraLore


Wait, didnt one of you guys just get on her about actually DOING the TV interviews. I believe you just proved Musterion's point. lol [/*]

I think some were complaining how she acted on TV, I personally think she needs to be on there pleaing with the public to help in searching for him........her not speaking out isn't helping to bring her children's father home. jmo

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Danette44


I think some were complaining how she acted on TV, I personally think she needs to be on there pleaing with the public to help in searching for him........her not speaking out isn't helping to bring her children's father home. jmo [/*]

I think she did that. Video (http://www.foxnews.com/video2/launchPage.html?022108/022108_greta_wife2&Missing%20Father&On_the_Record&Wife%20pleads%20for%20help%20with%20search&US&-1&Missing%20Father&Video%20Launch%20Page&News&http%3A//media2.foxnews.com/thumbnails/i/022108/022108_greta_wife2_320x240.jpg)

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth


No, i don't think that at all. I think he left, period. I think she is furious and knows he left and she wants him to be found. I think the money thing just happened and took on a life of its own. [/*]

Well if your theory is correct and he ran out on her and her kids and his whole family, I would be furious too! And when he was found, we would be heading to divorce court. He wouldn't have to worry about being around again. He could be free. That's if that was the case of course.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by sherryhefner


Where is your compassion for Nicholas? Everything is suddenly about poor Christine....:rolleyes:

She claims he's a great husband and father. If he left, something drove him to it. [/*]

LMAO! My compasion doesn't involve bashing his wife. I am glad that you think it does though. ;)

[KindraLore]

AND nobody drives you to run away from your responsibilites as a father and parent. I personally dont think he did. I have a lot of compasion for him and his wife and kids and family.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by sherryhefner


I'm not "bashing" anyone...only pointing out my suspicions. I clearly said earlier that I do not know these individuals personally and don't wish Christine any ill will. But its obvious to a large majority that something about her is not right. Maybe its just a personality quirk...

Why are you so defensive? Its the same defensive I've seen when anyone even dares to ask Christine some more pointed questions about Nicholas....

My opinions are totally harmless:D [/*]

I am not defensive. You asked me where my compassion is. I personally thought it an odd statement since I am an advocate of missing people.

Just because I am taking up for a missing man's wife that I personally do not think has done anything wrong, does not make me NOT have compassion for Nick himself. Quite the contrary.

[isitme]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
RE: Employer hiring a PI to look for Nicholas.

I have never heard of any company hiring a Private Investigator to look for a missing employee unless there is a very compelling reason to do so. Given how many companies are having to lay off employees and cut expenses, this is significant.

Any business has to justify the need to incur any expense and the reason must be valid. Simply put, I am sure they love and miss Nicholas but would leave it up to LE to find out what happened to him.....unless, they REALLY needed to find him.

I think this is a highly significant clue as to why LE is not actively looking for Nicholas. [/*]

Thank goodness somebody else sees that. I raised that point back a few days ago. It just seems interesting that a PI was hired, by the employer, almost as soon as the pleas for money began.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth
Kind of reminds me of what i was reading at that etsy board. Any deviation from the foul play theory equated to Christine bashing. There is a bit of passive/aggressiveness in some of these posts. [/*]

Oh come on Beth. You are doing the exact to ME. lol

I have a different perspective and yes, there has been bashing of Christine. Come on. You know that. I could go on and on about the snarky things said but I will leave it at that.

[AngS]

Originally posted by KindraLore


I think the point Musterion was making was dam*ed if she does, dam*ed if she doesn't from the way this thread and other online posts have gone.

And yes, Nasty is a great word for a lot of what has been said. Again, we are back to the donations. What does that exactly prove IF she was actually manipulating people as you say? Does that mean she killed Nick? Is that what it boils down to?

Hmmm doesn't seem like too much hard evidence to me, but as I have said before, everyone sees things through their own filter. [/*]


Are you just here to argue with everyone? We are free to express ANY thoughts we may have in this case, and if you don't like it you don't have to stay!

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by AngS



Are you just here to argue with everyone? We are free to express ANY thoughts we may have in this case, and if you don't like it you don't have to stay! [/*]

Hmmm I think I was expressing my thoughts as well there Ang but thanks for giving me permission to leave.

You are right however. I have personally nothing left to ad, so I am gone.. for now. lol

[AngS]

Originally posted by KindraLore


Hmmm I think I was expressing my thoughts as well there Ang but thanks for giving me permission to leave.

You are right however. I have personally nothing left to ad, so I am gone.. for now. lol [/*]

You're welcome!!!

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Beth


Well, that 6 or 7 dollars an hour is going to help support her children and provide with certaintly, some stability and maybe take some of the pressure off of the financial difficulties she herself has alluded to. At what point does she decide she is going to have to take the bull by the horns and start providing for her family? Nobody knows that there will ever be a resolution to this, so at some point she is going to have to think about it. [/*]

I think that Christine has options to earn money other than working at a minimum wage job (though Washington state does have the highest minimum wage in the country -- $8.07/hour now).

She is a talented photographer and designer herself, obviously has some business knowledge, has had some of her products placed in local stores, and could most likely find options to work at home as many women do with cottage industries, many quite lucratively. While she may not be emotionally stable enough right now to focus a lot of time on her sewing business, the new business she started last month of bath and body products is something that probably does not require a lot of labor if she has all the supplies etc on hand.

Personally I think after 2-1/2 weeks, her Etsy & crafty friends in particular could be encouraging her to get back to doing her business at least at some level. If nothing else, it would help her feel like she is accomplishing something instead of just waiting and dwelling on the situation. It could be a very healing experience for her. I had a former neighbor whose husband was dying of a brain tumor at a young age, and she and her teenage daughter started making candles as a therapeutic activity. They eventually started to sell them as grief candles. (This was about 8 years ago at least, but I just checked and she still has the business: http://www.lifelights.com/) Honestly I would be more inclined to buy some of her products than I would to just send her money.

[AngS]

Originally posted by hippiegirl
12 weeks is 3 months that's within reason. 6 to 8 weeks not within reason [/*]

I so agree...wink, wink. Like I said, DRAMA. QUEEN. To the Nth degree.

Anyhoo...maybe this has been answered already, but does anyone know why Nicholas would have said "I love you, Bella"?
Why would he call her Bella?

Also, I can't believe she insists he would NEVER have left her. As if she finds the mere thought of it, completely out of the realm of possibility. We have been married almost 15 years, have a great (certainly not perfect!) and very happy life together. We have a wonderful family! But if my hsband did not come home one day, I would NOT be able to INSIST that he DID NOT leave me on purpose. I am just NOT that naive! It doesn't mean we aren't great together, it just means I am a realist. It's as if everything in Christines world is rainbows, hearts and butterflies! It's creepy.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Beth


No, but from where I am, I wouldn't hear. How many men are missing in the Seattle area anyway? I would like to know who this man they found is. [/*]

Here is the info on the man who was found yesterday:

http://www.kirotv.com/news/15454016/detail.html

Officials Identify Body Found In Lake Washington

POSTED: 2:55 pm PST February 29, 2008
UPDATED: 3:46 pm PST March 1, 2008


BELLEVUE, Wash. -- The King County Medical Examiner’s office says the body of a man found in Lake Washington on Friday is that of 40-year-old Clayton Davis.

Officials believe Davis is to have died on December 27, 2007 from accidental drowning.

A 12-year-old girl who lives in the area spotted the body Friday floating off a dock near lakefront homes.

Davis was found wearing rain gear and did not appear to have any signs of trauma. Police used fingerprint records and looked through missing person cases to identify him.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Envision
I haven't seen anything new on the Publicis website regarding Nicholas since Feb 22 and it's basically just repeating what they've read in the news. [/*]

This website is also maintained by Publicis employees, and has not been updated since last Tues when the discussion on tracing his computer was brought up.

http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com

[greeneyez78]

Please go to the transcript of Christine talking to Greta and Nancy Grace and then re read your statement. No where did I see that he brings her coffee "in bed", said "he brings me coffee", could have been at the computer or anywhere. Also said he fixes breakfast, not he fixes breakfast for the kids.

I could be wrong but that is how I read it. Be a little kind here, her husband is missing.
If people want to contribute, let them!
Nothing wrong with that.


__________________
alwaysquestioning




I did go to the transcript and here it is....

FRANCISCO: Nope. Perfectly normal. He got up with the kids like he always does, makes them breakfast and spends time with them before he has to go to work. He came in, he brings me coffee every morning. He`s so sweet and -- he kissed me good-bye. And he left for work. I talked to him through the day and he sounded fine. And then I talked to him for the last time at 6:00.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Beth
Thank you, ThrutheTrees. Boy, that's a long time to have been in that lake. I'm glad for his family that they finally have him. [/*]

Interesting that the initial news reports were saying they thought the guy had only been in the water 24-48 hours. To be in there for 2+ months is quite a different story...

[greeneyez78]

Please go to the transcript of Christine talking to Greta and Nancy Grace and then re read your statement. No where did I see that he brings her coffee "in bed", said "he brings me coffee", could have been at the computer or anywhere. Also said he fixes breakfast, not he fixes breakfast for the kids.

I could be wrong but that is how I read it. Be a little kind here, her husband is missing.
If people want to contribute, let them!
Nothing wrong with that.


__________________
alwaysquestioning




I did go to the transcript and here it is....

FRANCISCO: Nope. Perfectly normal. He got up with the kids like he always does, makes them breakfast and spends time with them before he has to go to work. He came in, he brings me coffee every morning. He`s so sweet and -- he kissed me good-bye. And he left for work. I talked to him through the day and he sounded fine. And then I talked to him for the last time at 6:00.

[AngS]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


Here is the info on the man who was found yesterday:

http://www.kirotv.com/news/15454016/detail.html

Officials Identify Body Found In Lake Washington

POSTED: 2:55 pm PST February 29, 2008
UPDATED: 3:46 pm PST March 1, 2008


BELLEVUE, Wash. -- The King County Medical Examiner’s office says the body of a man found in Lake Washington on Friday is that of 40-year-old Clayton Davis.

Officials believe Davis is to have died on December 27, 2007 from accidental drowning.

A 12-year-old girl who lives in the area spotted the body Friday floating off a dock near lakefront homes.

Davis was found wearing rain gear and did not appear to have any signs of trauma. Police used fingerprint records and looked through missing person cases to identify him. [/*]


WHAT?????? Police said the victim appeard to have been in the water for 24-48 hours! If a body is in the water for 2 MONTHS(!) it is OBVIOUS that they've been there a he** of a L-O-N-G time! What kind of police force is this? RIDICULOUS!

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by AngS



WHAT?????? Police said the victim appeard to have been in the water for 24-48 hours! If a body is in the water for 2 MONTHS(!) it is OBVIOUS that they've been there a he** of a L-O-N-G time! What kind of police force is this? RIDICULOUS! [/*]

Well I can go along with the idea that the water temperature could have slowed the decay of the body (Lake Washington is cold ALL the time but especially in winter). Still, I had the same sense about LE's initial statement in light of today's findings -- "What the???"!

[huskiki]

Hi guys :seeya:

I've been gone for 24 hours and I have a lot of catching up to do. I'm going to assume that there's been no new news on Nicholas. Am I right?

[Musterion]

Originally posted by AngS

Anyhoo...maybe this has been answered already, but does anyone know why Nicholas would have said "I love you, Bella"?
Why would he call her Bella?
[/*]

I believe Bella is Nicholas' name for her. Bella is Italian for Beautiful.

Her product names more than likely come from that endearment: Bella Style Boutique. Bella Style. And Bella Spice.

[desmom]

Originally posted by huskiki
Hi guys :seeya:

I've been gone for 24 hours and I have a lot of catching up to do. I'm going to assume that there's been no new news on Nicholas. Am I right? [/*]

:seeya: Nothing new!

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by huskiki
Hi guys :seeya:

I've been gone for 24 hours and I have a lot of catching up to do. I'm going to assume that there's been no new news on Nicholas. Am I right? [/*]

Nope, nothing new on Nicholas.

The body found in Lake Washington yesterday and has been identified -- not Nicholas, but a 40-year-old man who presumably drowned 2 months ago (not the 24-48 hours originally suggested by LE).

Beth Engleman brought up a good point about why would his employer be paying for a PI, unless perhaps they are trying to find him for some work-related reason, such as some kind of wrongdoing/theft of information, maybe? I hadn't thought of the "why" they hired a PI other than just that he was a loyal and much-loved employee. Would be interesting to research how many companies hire PI's when an employee goes missing.

[Track292003]

Did Mr. Fale -- the other young man missing in Seattle -- have a car?

Is the car missing?

If so, can someone describe it?

TIA.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


Nope, nothing new on Nicholas.

The body found in Lake Washington yesterday and has been identified -- not Nicholas, but a 40-year-old man who presumably drowned 2 months ago (not the 24-48 hours originally suggested by LE).

Beth Engleman brought up a good point about why would his employer be paying for a PI, unless perhaps they are trying to find him for some work-related reason, such as some kind of wrongdoing/theft of information, maybe? I hadn't thought of the "why" they hired a PI other than just that he was a loyal and much-loved employee. Would be interesting to research how many companies hire PI's when an employee goes missing. [/*]

If the laptop that Nicholas has belongs to the company I'm sure there's information on it that they would want back. Another theroy, which was mentioned here a while ago, is that maybe he embezzled money from the company. That would be a pretty good reason to hire a PI. I'm going with option A, he has a company laptop that has a lot of confidential information on it.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Track292003
Did Mr. Fale -- the other young man missing in Seattle -- have a car?

Is the car missing?

If so, can someone describe it?

TIA. [/*]

There have been no details on him other than the missing person's report that was filed. Several people on this board contacted his wife via MySpace and she responded politely that his disappearance was basically a private family matter.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Track292003
Did Mr. Fale -- the other young man missing in Seattle -- have a car?

Is the car missing?

If so, can someone describe it?

TIA. [/*]

I don't think we're going to find out any information on Fale. His wife has said his disappearance is being kept private.

I hope he returns safe too!

[desmom]

Publicis Info: http://www.publicis.com/index.cfm?action=dsp_network

8,900 employees, 251 offices in 82 countries.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by huskiki


If the laptop that Nicholas has belongs to the company I'm sure there's information on it that they would want back. Another theroy, which was mentioned here a while ago, is that maybe he embezzled money from the company. That would be a pretty good reason to hire a PI. I'm going with option A, he has a company laptop that has a lot of confidential information on it. [/*]

True, they may just be looking for him because he has confidential business info on his laptop. Christine herself mentioned that he worked on accounts of some of their top clients, including T-Mobile. In fact, there may not be much on the computer at all, but a major company like Publicis with a client like T-Mobile might even hire a P-I simply as a "face-saving" measure to reassure the client that they are "doing all they can".

[AngS]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


There have been no details on him other than the missing person's report that was filed. Several people on this board contacted his wife via MySpace and she responded politely that his disappearance was basically a private family matter. [/*]

I really don't see why this guy keeps getting brought up. I don't think the one thing has anything to do with the other. I guess if she says it's a private matter, and on her myspace she says her mood is "hungry", as opposed to "worried", she's probably not all that concerned about him. She must know that he is alive, probably with another woman, or they just needed time apart. Who reported him missing in the first place? Are the police still actively pursuing this as a missing persons case, or have they backed off? The wife working at Cosco is just such a stretch to connect the two.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Beth


I'm not sure that information on a computer, or even just the computer itself, would warrant hiring an investigator. [/*]

If it means client confidentiality it would. Security is of high importance to companies.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by AngS


I really don't see why this guy keeps getting brought up. I don't think the one thing has anything to do with the other. I guess if she says it's a private matter, and on her myspace she says her mood is "hungry", as opposed to "worried", she's probably not all that concerned about him. She must know that he is alive, probably with another woman, or they just needed time apart. Who reported him missing in the first place? Are the police still actively pursuing this as a missing persons case, or have they backed off? The wife working at Cosco is just such a stretch to connect the two. [/*]

I can only assume that she believes that he left on his own. I can't answer any of the other questions because I don't know. :shrug:

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Envision


There's a lot of copyrighted intellectual property on that computer. I can understand them wanting it back as the information is worth a small fortune however I can't fathom someone using that information outright for profit and assume they would not be caught. [/*]

I'm having trouble picturing (I was going to say "envisioning" but I didn't want to come across as unintentionally punny!) what kind of information in an advertising scenario could be THAT valuable? Unless he was working on some kind of top secret financial presentation, but if it was just straight advertising, how valuable could it be? Other than paying someone to re-create work that was in process, most likely there would be back-up copies of everything. And divulging or re-selling the info, he'd most likely get caught as you said.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Beth


OMG! They're huge. [/*]

I work for a larger company and they don't take it lightly when a laptop gets lost or stolen. It's a trust thing between the company and the client. Or they could just care that much about Nicholas that they thought that they would help find him.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Beth


Yeah, I could see that. I guess i was just thinking more of the money/crime angle. So why wouldn't he turn in the computer or leave it there if he knew he wasn't coming back? [/*]

That's a good question! hmmmm

[desmom]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


I'm having trouble picturing (I was going to say "envisioning" but I didn't want to come across as unintentionally punny!) what kind of information in an advertising scenario could be THAT valuable? Unless he was working on some kind of top secret financial presentation, but if it was just straight advertising, how valuable could it be? Other than paying someone to re-create work that was in process, most likely there would be back-up copies of everything. And divulging or re-selling the info, he'd most likely get caught as you said. [/*]

Companies are very protective of their products/services. If he was working on a new design plan for one of their major clients, it could be devastating if the laptop was to fall into the hands of one of their competitors.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Beth


Yeah, I could see that. I guess i was just thinking more of the money/crime angle. So why wouldn't he turn in the computer or leave it there if he knew he wasn't coming back? [/*]

I would think he'd keep it because if he used it to do his own work, email, etc. on, he would want to have it with him all the time.

And, if he did leave it because he knew he wasn't coming back, there would be less likelihood that people would be wondering if he ran into foul play. "oh, he left his computer here and he never does that. Maybe he took off and he's not coming back to work."

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Envision


I can't imagine hiring a PI for that either but then again we're talking hours of work and thousands, possibly millions of dollars here. Who knows? [/*]

We also don't know how hard the PI is working on this. Did they hire someone full-time to work on it til Nicholas is found, or did they hire someone on a small contract just to say they hired someone and reassure their clients? Could just be a routine action when a company laptop is missing. Hard to know. I'm sure the PI won't be coming on here to say. :)

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Beth
And had he left the computer, there wouldn't be any crime. As it stands, wouldn't a computer just be a petty theft charge? Especially a laptop. I don't think you can charge him with felony theft only because the information on the computer was worth a million dollars. Does that make sense? [/*]

You make sense. I don't think it's about pressing charges as much as it is about getting the information back. All speculation of course :D

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Beth
Okay, but how would the client know the laptop was missing? I doubt the company would alert each client and let them know a laptop had gone missing. I would think that would be kept hush hush. [/*]

I'm sure all of their clients know it could be missing since Nicholas was reported missing. His name has been out in the media as well as where he works. If someone could just give us answers, like what laptop he has then it might become more clear.

I don't think we'll be hearing much more out of Christine, so unless they have a solid lead in the case we may never know. So frustrating. hammer

[AngS]

The money thing stinks to high heaven. I just find it so undignified to take from strangers, (albeit well-meaning strangers). At the VERY least, where the he** are their parents??? Why can't they take them in and take care of them? I KNOW MY family would, and so would my in-laws, I wouldn't even have to ask!!! Are they all just incredibly selfish? How can they stand by and watch money pour in from around the world and not do all they can themselves? Even so, Christine should consider all the people in this world who have NO CHOICE but to pull it together and do whatever it takes to make it for their families. Those kids DO need their mom, but they also need food, clothing, and a home. God gave those children to HER, and taking care of all their needs is HER responsibility now. Regardless of the reason for Nicholas being gone, God expects her to step up and be both parents now. Any one of us could become a widow, it happens to hundreds of people every day.

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." I Timothy 5:8

[Silver_Dove]

Originally posted by AngS



WHAT?????? Police said the victim appeard to have been in the water for 24-48 hours! If a body is in the water for 2 MONTHS(!) it is OBVIOUS that they've been there a he** of a L-O-N-G time! What kind of police force is this? RIDICULOUS! [/*]

If I remember right they said they could only see his face because of the rain gear. I'm guessing they are talking about the fisherman's kind which are like rubber pants, boots and a full coat.

Bodies in the very cold water we have here would keep the body and also the clothes would cover everything.

[desmom]

Originally posted by Beth
Okay, but how would the client know the laptop was missing? I doubt the company would alert each client and let them know a laptop had gone missing. I would think that would be kept hush hush. [/*]

What if his laptop has a big ad layout Publicis is getting ready to present to a huge corporation. What would happen if Publicis presentation was to fall into the hands of their biggest competitor we will call company ABC?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Envision
It's not just advertising in the presentations but company secrets as well, I guess. If ABC got a hold of T-Mobile's ad campaign before the public saw it, ABC could jump the gun on the program or package T-Mobile was about to offer. [/*]

Since every other possible scenario has been put on the table, why don't we think of something in an opposite direction. What if Nicholas knew something about the company and keeping in line with his ethical makeup was going to be a whistle blower. Here is a link I found today and it may be common practice - I don't know. Scroll down about halfway down to the FRAUD article.

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/publicis/default.asp

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Beth
Well, we're certainly not at a loss as far as conspiracy theories go. I hope they keep updating their website about him. [/*]

I'm just wanting him to be a good guy I guess :)

[RainyNiteNTx]

What county is Seattle in?

[Musterion]

Originally posted by AngS
[
"But if any provide not for his own, and specially those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." I Timothy 5:8 [/*]

Context of that scripture is for the church to take care of widows. And admonishing families who have a widow to take care of her so that the church can take care of widows who have no family. Later in the passage it tells the younger widows to remarry.

It is a specific instruction for a specific situation.

It may be more helpful to quote a scripture that is general for all:

"Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear."

Just a thought.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
What county is Seattle in? [/*]

Seattle is in King County.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Musterion


Seattle is in King County. [/*]

Thanks Musterion - its amazing what I CAN find and then can't find something that simple :)

[dianaelaine]

Sorry guys ... my pm box was full, it's empty now .. if you wanted to pm me.


:biggrin:

[field of snow]

Musterion --

What are your thoughts regarding someone who is at most 6-7 weeks pregnant with her fourth pregnancy experience posting that she felt the baby move?

(edited to correct third to fourth)


Thanks

[RainyNiteNTx]

I found only two people missing on the Sheriff's page and both are old cases and foul play is suspected. Neither Nicholas or Fale are listed. Surely there are more than this.

http://www.metrokc.gov/sheriff/news/seeking_information/missing_persons/

[Musterion]

Originally posted by snowfield
Musterion --

What are your thoughts regarding someone who is at most 6-7 weeks pregnant with her fourth pregnancy experience posting that she felt the baby move?

(edited to correct third to fourth)


Thanks [/*]

I would need to see, in context, what was said.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Here is the link...

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5472950&page=76

rinnovibodyspa says:
thank you all for all of your prayers and support. as of yet i have heard no news on the car so i assume that the lead was another dead end. Please keep praying. please do not loose hope.

I felt our baby move last night. I was so excited I tried to call Nicholas to tell him but then i remembered......

[RainyNiteNTx]

There is just nothing anywhere. Even his friends' blog has not been updated and the calendar's last activity was February 27th. I think that is sad. :(

[Musterion]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Here is the link...

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5472950&page=76

rinnovibodyspa says:
thank you all for all of your prayers and support. as of yet i have heard no news on the car so i assume that the lead was another dead end. Please keep praying. please do not loose hope.

I felt our baby move last night. I was so excited I tried to call Nicholas to tell him but then i remembered...... [/*]

I would say two things.

One: She may be farther along in her pregnancy than she thought.

Two: If she is only eight weeks or less pregnant then, based on the fact that this was written mid afternoon only a few days after Nicholas went missing and taking into account that she probably has had little sleep and extreme stress.....I would pass it off as hopeful thinking.

She presumably had a miscarriage last June. Maybe it gives her comfort to think she feels this life, the possible last link to her husband, is alive and well.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Musterion


I would say two things.

One: She may be farther along in her pregnancy than she thought.

Two: If she is only eight weeks or less pregnant then, based on the fact that this was written mid afternoon only a few days after Nicholas went missing and taking into account that she probably has had little sleep and extreme stress.....I would pass it off as hopeful thinking.

She presumably had a miscarriage last June. Maybe it gives her comfort to think she feels this life, the possible last link to her husband, is alive and well. [/*]

You are a nice person Musterion - always trying to find the positive.

[Curiouser]

I found these two items on some sort of law blog about Publicis. I had googled NF and this was one of the items found as there was a "missing person" item on the site as well. I can't read the rest of the article as you have to be a member of the law blog to get the rest. Anyway, its sort of interesting although probably not any connection with NF's disappearance.


Donovan Loses Its First Major Media Agency
Original Signal - 02/18/2008

NEW YORK (AdAge.com) -- For 40 years, Donovan Data Systems has held a near monopoly on the business of media billing and tracking. But now, in the first defection of a major player, Publicis' Starcom MediaVest Group has moved its spending power to MediaBank, a Chicago-based software company that acquired Donovan competitor DataTech last year.


Ad Titans Battle Over Software
Law blog - 02/16/2008 Explore : Business, Publicis

Publicis's Starcom unit was accused of stealing trade secrets by Donovan Data Systems, a company that provides the software used by most media-buying firms.

[Curiouser]

Originally posted by hippiegirl
Ad Titans Battle Over Software
Law blog - 02/16/2008 Explore : Business, Publicis

Publicis's Starcom unit was accused of stealing trade secrets by Donovan Data Systems, a company that provides the software used by most media-buying firms.


wow, do you think N had anything to do with this

he went missing th 13th, this was reported on the 16th [/*]

I was wondering where the Starcom unit is located. Is it in Seattle, does anyone know??

[Curiouser]

Originally posted by hippiegirl
what if....
N had something to do with the deal with Donavan data, and knew he was about to be found out, told C that he may be caught and going to prison, and she told him to run, and she would catch up with him later and start a new life somewhere else.... [/*]

Hmmmm....

You know his best friend's last name is Donovan! Don't suppose there's any connection with this business though??? Surely not as I'm sure Donavan Data is a huge business. Also is the name spelled different? Don't know for sure.

[Curiouser]

Originally posted by hippiegirl
what if....
N had something to do with the deal with Donavan data, and knew he was about to be found out, told C that he may be caught and going to prison, and she told him to run, and she would catch up with him later and start a new life somewhere else.... [/*]


OR maybe Publicis authorized the theft and Nicholas was just doing his job. So Publicis sent him off somewhere to save him. Maybe give him a new identity. I think I probably watch too much TV. LOL

[dianaelaine]

I received a convo from an Etsy member, that said the wife of the other missing man in Seattle, has stopped the search and wants to keep it silent.

Not sure why ... but that's what they're dong.

At first I thought she was talking about Christine stopping the search, but seems it wasn't ... it was the other man's wife.

[dianaelaine]

Originally posted by Curiouser



OR maybe Publicis authorized the theft and Nicholas was just doing his job. So Publicis sent him off somewhere to save him. Maybe give him a new identity. I think I probably watch too much TV. LOL [/*]

I think you do too! :lol:

[Curiouser]

Originally posted by dianaelaine


I think you do too! :lol: [/*]



So guess I'll go to bed. Its 11 p.m. here, so its time I guess. Good night all.

[HarlettOhara]

Originally posted by Sunday Moon


I posted that question before. Who's not contacting whom? [/*]


One thing about the media and missing persons.. you have cases that get attention put on them day after day and continues on for months.. then you have others that get one little blurb and that's it. I can't tell you how many missing cases we have written letters about, made calls and whatever else we could think of to get them some media attention. It's not as easy as you would think... The ones that the media pick up on are the ones that will help ratings... and they are mainly young, white females.. It took us nearly 3 months to get any attention for Naomi Arnette after she went missing... and that was just local media.

[HarlettOhara]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
RE: Employer hiring a PI to look for Nicholas.

I have never heard of any company hiring a Private Investigator to look for a missing employee unless there is a very compelling reason to do so. Given how many companies are having to lay off employees and cut expenses, this is significant.

Any business has to justify the need to incur any expense and the reason must be valid. Simply put, I am sure they love and miss Nicholas but would leave it up to LE to find out what happened to him.....unless, they REALLY needed to find him.

I think this is a highly significant clue as to why LE is not actively looking for Nicholas. [/*]

Over the years the company I worked for as a PI was hired by quite a few business' to help look for an employee that was missing. If they are a valued employee and well liked, it's not an unusual thing.

[HarlettOhara]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
Re: Missing Viliamu Fale

If you recall, Viliamu is also missing. His wife works at the Costco in Sea Tac where Nicholas was to stop to pick up sugar before going home.

I feel this is a significant clue since Viliamu might have just dropped off or was at Costco to visit his wife when Nicholas arrived. We have no proof that Nicholas ever went inside the store but could have come across Viliamu in the parking lot.

Most businesses like Costco have video cameras in the parking lot. This is very important in the search to what happened the night of Feb 13th and why he didn't make it home.

Did they both leave the Costco lot driving in their own vehicles to later meet and drop off the car Nicholas was driving at the Condo parking lot.

Did they then just ...... disappear? [/*]

Nicholas disappeared on the 13th.. Vili didn't disappear until the night of the 14th.

[HarlettOhara]

Originally posted by sherryhefner
Harlett, what do you think about this latest discovery involving Nic's company and the theft of another company's "secrets?" [/*]

I haven't read much about it yet, but it would all depend on what location of Publicis it was done from.. if it was a Chicago office, more than likely another division somewhere else didn't know about it until it was brought out in the public.

[HarlettOhara]

I can't really comment on something I haven't seen. I have only read here about the plea for money. What I would like to know is has she asked for money, and if so how many times..1,2 etc... or is the plea for money coming from friends.. which if it's from friends, they may think that's their way of helping her out.

As for her behavior, I only saw the one time she was on Greta.. she looked upset to me and ready to cry at any given time. You see all different types of reactions.. some never shed a tear, unless they are in private.. and others totally break down and can't stop crying and then you get everything else in between those two. Everyone reacts differently to a situation. Some are emotionally able to handle it and some aren't.

[Breazy]

Originally posted by KindraLore


Really. Wow, you should watch

this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W8kpgDm1rs) video then. Tell me, are you going to judge this poor lady the same as well?

You people are a tough crowd for sure and I must admire you because obviously if anything like this happened to YOU, you would all have it together. [/*]


I'm sorry but the video you posted showed a woman much more devastated and sincere than Christine has ever been shown. You could see her "real" tears whereas when Christine cried, there were NO tears. Another thing . . . she was begging for him to come home which Christine NEVER has done. And she did not state in front of her kids that if her husband didn't come home, her children would not have a daddy. She just stated we want daddy home and the children agreed. Totally different . . .

[need2no]

Website for Vilamu's employer:

Our service area includes the I-5 corridor from the Canadian border to Olympia, Washington and the Olympic Peninsula to the west. >Canadian border<

Kinda interesting that Stephanie, Viliamu's wife, has this song on her MS page: Like You'll Never See Me Again by Alicia Keyes

Stephanie works at Costco.
I believe Harlett posted Stephanie attended art design school in the past, and IIRC she is an auditor.

Both men disappeared within a day of each other.

I'm not saying they are connected, but there sure are some strange connections/coincidences here.

[HarlettOhara]

Originally posted by need2no
Website for Vilamu's employer:

Our service area includes the I-5 corridor from the Canadian border to Olympia, Washington and the Olympic Peninsula to the west. >Canadian border<

Kinda interesting that Stephanie, Viliamu's wife, has this song on her MS page: Like You'll Never See Me Again by Alicia Keyes

Stephanie works at Costco.
I believe Harlett posted Stephanie attended art design school in the past, and IIRC she is an auditor.

Both men disappeared within a day of each other.

I'm not saying they are connected, but there sure are some strange connections/coincidences here. [/*]

It was Christine that attended Design school..

[Breazy]

Originally posted by desmom


I don't think when she said "he is not a coward" she was trying to convince the public. IMO, she was trying to convince herself.

jmo [/*]


That was exactly my thought also. Also her insistence that he WOULD NOT leave on his own . . . like she was trying to convince herself of that.

[Kamiron]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by KindraLore


Really. Wow, you should watch

this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W8kpgDm1rs) then. Tell me, are you going to judge this poor lady the same as well?

You people are a tough crowd for sure and I must admire you because obviously if anything like this happened to YOU, you would all have it together. [/*]


Wow this guy was 28 with a pregnant wife as well. I really do believe that there is a lot of foul play going on.

[Musterion]

Queen Anne Crime. 17 February 2008. Home Invasion. 1.9 miles from Publicis.

Police initially thought the crime was not random. The second article says that it was random.

http://www.pacificpublishingcompany.com/site/tab2.cfm?newsid=19335745&BRD=855&PAG=461&dept_id=513932&rfi=6

'made off with two laptop computers, the victim's cellphone, $200 from his wallet, his ATM card, his PIN code and his BMW'
'His car was later found abandoned in Queen Anne.'

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004189641_webrobbery20m.html

Queen Anne and Magnolia are two large neighbourhoods merging into one. Nicholas worked on the south end of Queen Anne. Magnolia is north west of Publicis.

This article, dated 14 January 2008, talks about the increase of crime since 1 October 2007.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/348488_magnolia24.html

'The MacMillans' rented house is one of about 30 homes and businesses burglarized in Magnolia the past few months, an unusual crime wave for an area of well-to-do and middle-class folks.'

'Online reports show the thief or thieves prefer electronics -- computers, laptops, cell phones, Xboxes and electric games, for example.'

Here is a map that shows the locations of the crimes. Along with descriptions.

http://sleeplessinmagnolia.ning.com/

If criminals are escalating their robberies by storming into homes and tying people up and assaulting them for computers and cell phones, it seems nothing would be thought of attacking a young man walking down the street with a laptop and cell phone in his hands. Stealing his car and leaving it somewhere....

Just thoughts. JMO.

[Breazy]

Originally posted by sherryhefner


I don't think so re. the PI....I don't know many employers who would spend the money when LE is on the case. The fact that they've hired their own PI is very telling to me... [/*]


Nicholas could have been working on an important presentation or project and took material home to work on overnight. If this is the case, it would be a lot of work to redo what had already been done, i.e. copywriting, spec ideas, etc.

Edited to add: Nicholas may have even come up with the creative idea himself which had already been approved by the client and with Nicholas not there, maybe they wouldn't be able to use it and would have to start off from scratch costing more time and money, even possibly the loss of a client.

[Breazy]

Originally posted by AngS

[respecfully snipped]

Anyhoo...maybe this has been answered already, but does anyone know why Nicholas would have said "I love you, Bella"?
Why would he call her Bella? [/*]

I've wondered about the origin of Bella myself. I wish someone could tell us if it is just a nickname, middle name or what.

Another thing, I think it strange that he would say, "I love you, Bella." Almost like he was emphasizing it cause he knew he wouldn't be seeing her for awhile or if ever. Which also makes me think maybe if he did leave on his own, it wasn't because of her. When my husband and I speak on the phone, one always says, "love you" and the other "love you too" but to be so pronounced about it by saying "I love you, Bella" just seems like it is being emphasized for some reason.

[Breazy]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


Here is the info on the man who was found yesterday:

http://www.kirotv.com/news/15454016/detail.html

Officials Identify Body Found In Lake Washington

POSTED: 2:55 pm PST February 29, 2008
UPDATED: 3:46 pm PST March 1, 2008


BELLEVUE, Wash. -- The King County Medical Examiner’s office says the body of a man found in Lake Washington on Friday is that of 40-year-old Clayton Davis.

Officials believe Davis is to have died on December 27, 2007 from accidental drowning.

A 12-year-old girl who lives in the area spotted the body Friday floating off a dock near lakefront homes.

Davis was found wearing rain gear and did not appear to have any signs of trauma. Police used fingerprint records and looked through missing person cases to identify him. [/*]


:rose: May he rest in peace and his family have closure.

[Silver_Dove]

Originally posted by Musterion
Queen Anne Crime. 17 February 2008. Home Invasion. 1.9 miles from Publicis.

Police initially thought the crime was not random. The second article says that it was random.

http://www.pacificpublishingcompany.com/site/tab2.cfm?newsid=19335745&BRD=855&PAG=461&dept_id=513932&rfi=6

'made off with two laptop computers, the victim's cellphone, $200 from his wallet, his ATM card, his PIN code and his BMW'
'His car was later found abandoned in Queen Anne.'

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004189641_webrobbery20m.html

[/*]

I think you have these two turned around your "second" one from the Times is dated 2/19 and they say it is random but your "first" link from pacific publishing is dated 2/24 and says it was not random. My take is this the police have now found out it was not a random act.

Also none of the crimes was anyone kidnap. If they were going to rob the guy and take his car why not leave him dead on the street like all of the other crimes around here? It is much simpler then kidnapping him, taking him somewhere and killing him without leaving a trace. Seems like kidnapping and driving around with him is a lot of risk for an old car, a phone and a laptop.

Also why keep moving the car around in the condo parking lot? Even Greta ask about that one.

[Breazy]

I'm finally caught up and it's 2 a.m. here so off to bed I go :seeya:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Breazy


I've wondered about the origin of Bella myself. I wish someone could tell us if it is just a nickname, middle name or what.

Another thing, I think it strange that he would say, "I love you, Bella." Almost like he was emphasizing it cause he knew he wouldn't be seeing her for awhile or if ever. Which also makes me think maybe if he did leave on his own, it wasn't because of her. When my husband and I speak on the phone, one always says, "love you" and the other "love you too" but to be so pronounced about it by saying "I love you, Bella" just seems like it is being emphasized for some reason. [/*]

I said something similar about me and my husband. I don't know if this is just her embellishing, remembering incorrectly, or if each time they spoke he actually made a declaration like that.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by HarlettOhara
I can't really comment on something I haven't seen. I have only read here about the plea for money. What I would like to know is has she asked for money, and if so how many times..1,2 etc... or is the plea for money coming from friends.. which if it's from friends, they may think that's their way of helping her out. [/*] (snipped)

I don't believe that SHE actually asked for money; however family members spoke on her behalf - here are just a few...

fashiongreentbags says:
I just spoke with Christine's sister and she said that financial support is desperately needed. Finances were tight before this and now they're in somewhat of a crisis.
Her sister's name is Jannel.
She also said that people in the area could call this number:
Autumn and lee
(deleted phone number)
to volunteer to search or donate meals.
Christine has a 4 and 2 year old and is pregnant with her third child.
They have not set up a donation center as of yet but THEY ARE TRULY IN NEED OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT! &HEARTS;


rinnovibodyspa says:
i logged in this morning and i was flooded with paypal email. thank you all so much i am overwhelmed by the love and support from etsy and everyone. someone on here had asked about the kids. well they are not doing well at all. they see photos of their daddy on the news and beg for him, everytime the front door opens my youngest runs to the door screaming "dada, Dada". my oldest, our daughter, had a complete meltdown yesterday screaming for her daddy "I want my daddy". it just broke my heart. they need all the distraction they can get. all the company is helping but company wont always be here and i just don't know how to comfort them. there isn't anything i can say to bring them comfort as the same with me. we just want Nicholas to come home to us. thank you again for all the support. there is still no word. blessings to you all.
Posted at 1:06 pm, February 17 2008 EST

gabrielsaunt says:
I just spoke with a family friend of the Franciscos and he mentioned that what they need now is monetary donations and people to help get groups together and search. They are also setting up a WAMU account in the family's name, but that is not complete yet.
If you do want to help, money is the best thing. IF you are in the Seattle/Tacoma area, like me, and want to help post fliers, then feel free to convo me.
Posted at 1:42 pm, February 17 2008 EST


gabrielsaunt says:
they are in real need of money at this point. Lee told me that they have a lot of folks offering to feed the family for the next few weeks. Money and searching is needed the most he said.
Posted at 2:17 pm, February 17 2008 EST


gabrielsaunt says:
To volunteer, call Autumn or Lee. They will then give you an email address so that you can contact them to volunteer for searching or posting fliers. lee told me that thye have enough food that they need money now and people to help search.
Posted at 4:16 pm, February 17 2008 EST


rinnovibodyspa says:
I went searching for him today. still nothing. there is 2 possible sightings of him on the night he went missing but nothing confirmed. the reward for info that leads to him is now $5000.00

Please keep a thread going. I am blown away by all of the support and I really do need it. it really helps to come here and see that you are all praying. The financial help and care packages for my kids are such a great help. Thank you to those who coordinated it.

I am not giving up. Please don't you give up either. I am 7 weeks pregnant today with our 3rd child.

thank you to etsy admin for letting the threads go as long as you possibly can. I really appreciate it.

blessings to you all.
Christine
rinnovi body spa
bella style boutique
Posted at 9:50 pm, February 17 2008 EST

The request for money was over and over and over again - sometimes 2 -3 requests on the same page. I think this is where people got turned off. Christine acknowledges the flood of paypal email but does not request for it to be stopped. That would lead me to believe that they are indeed in financial trouble. JMO

[Curiouser]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I said something similar about me and my husband. I don't know if this is just her embellishing, remembering incorrectly, or if each time they spoke he actually made a declaration like that. [/*]

I don't really think we can glean much info from the fact that he supposedly said, "I love you, Bella." To begin with its her telling it and it may or may not have been said, if it was said it may not be an exact quote and even if it is an exact quote, so what?

I'm wondering if Italian would be his native language or he just likes the sound of the Bella thing. Don't think there's really any story there either. My brother-in-law used to call his wife "my delight" from some old movie they'd seen together. We thought oh how sweet, but come to find out she hated it and it was just to tease her because he knew she didn't like it. Sort of an inside joke between 2 married people.

[Curiouser]

Can I just mention this here, our number of posts doesn't seem to be changing anymore. Also when I first signed up I had checked to receive an e-mail when a reply was posted on a thread I was in, several days ago after a blue billion e-mails I unchecked this box (and it still shows up unchecked) but I'm still getting them. Am I not doing something here that I should be?

[jagstar58]

Originally posted by Curiouser
Can I just mention this here, our number of posts doesn't seem to be changing anymore. Also when I first signed up I had checked to receive an e-mail when a reply was posted on a thread I was in, several days ago after a blue billion e-mails I unchecked this box (and it still shows up unchecked) but I'm still getting them. Am I not doing something here that I should be? [/*]

Just a suggestion here. Perhaps put a note up on the feedback board as it might be a glitch.

There were probably seventy-five more posts when I just logged in. This was after about 7PM last night. So I don't know about your unchanging numbers.

Welcome to IS! :seeya:

[Curiouser]

Originally posted by jagstar58


Just a suggestion here. Perhaps put a note up on the feedback board as it might be a glitch.

There were probably seventy-five more posts when I just logged in. This was after about 7PM last night. So I don't know about your unchanging numbers.

Welcome to IS! :seeya: [/*]

According to my computer, its not just my numbers that aren't changing, its everyone's. I saw RainyNite back on page 40 something and the number there was the same as on this page.

[jagstar58]

I was thinking about the judging of Christine last night and offer the following.

She seems like one of those high achievers who is very used to everything being perfect, looking perfect and has values based on how that is presented.

She appears to be a bit high strung and I believe they were living beyond their means period. I am none of the above and if my hubby just didn't show up one night, I'd be on your screens every night with a bull horn. Just the thought of being thrown into total chaos and the underlying feeling we have about men being able to get up and walk out on their families would scare the daylights out of me. I would be insistent my hubby could never walk out on us but I know a great family man who did just that one day and he started a new life.

I'm sure the statistics tell her it's possible so she is probably confused and doesn't want to look like a fool either. It has to be hellish.

I think people are being a bit skeptical because of the finance business, but come on, they were clearly living on the edge.

I am going to refrain from putting her in the hot seat unless we find something that indicates she could be culpable in his current missing status.

JMHO

Edit - The post count updates as you make a new post and it's reflected in each prior post too.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Jagstar - I think your post is right on target. I think she had a doting loving husband one day - a very special husband who made her sweet gifts and labeled her pictures with declarations of love - things like that. I'm sure she is completely overwhelmed. I also began to think about her age. I know some think 28 years of age is a mature age, but looking back at myself at that age I don't think I made wise rational decisions.

Trying to piece this together is like working with a rubics cube that doesn't have all the pieces to begin with.

I know for ME MYSELF every dime I had would go to the reward money. But as I said, that is me. Everyone is different.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I would like to add that in looking over those threads she does appear to be very confused. She asked the name of the Texas search organization (Texas Equusearch) - someone gave it to her and she then replied that they did not go outside of Texas. A couple of people sent her links and told her that was wrong but it didn't seem to really sink in until later. I think she emailed the Director but I have no idea what the status of that is. I do wish Tim Miller and team would go down there and help her, but I know there are thousands of people wishing the same thing.

[jagstar58]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Jagstar - I think your post is right on target. I think she had a doting loving husband one day - a very special husband who made her sweet gifts and labeled her pictures with declarations of love - things like that. I'm sure she is completely overwhelmed. I also began to think about her age. I know some think 28 years of age is a mature age, but looking back at myself at that age I don't think I made wise rational decisions.

Trying to piece this together is like working with a rubics cube that doesn't have all the pieces to begin with.

I know for ME MYSELF every dime I had would go to the reward money. But as I said, that is me. Everyone is different. [/*]

Every day I am reminded of how nice it would have been to know what I do now when I was younger. ;) It might have changed the direction of life. I would have kept all the main characters, but skipped a few chapters of the book if you know what I mean.

I am praying he did not meet with foul play and that he will make contact with his family. But I don't feel confident he just walked away. Is everything at a standstill right now as far as LE goes?

Also, any news on searches?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by jagstar58


Every day I am reminded of how nice it would have been to know what I do now when I was younger. ;) It might have changed the direction of life. I would have kept all the main characters, but skipped a few chapters of the book if you know what I mean.

I am praying he did not meet with foul play and that he will make contact with his family. But I don't feel confident he just walked away. Is everything at a standstill right now as far as LE goes?

Also, any news on searches? [/*]

I have searched on all of my links and find NOTHING. No updates on his best friend's blog - no new searches planned on the calendar of events they had going - no new articles or follow up in the Seattle Times.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Someone on WS mentioned that there was a Sonics game the night he went missing - they brought up a good point about the traffic. Since I know nothing about that area, is the arena close to where he works? Would there have been detours? I know in my town when we have even a college game, certain roads are blocked off and what a pain - you can get to where you're going but it is an alternate route. If this is possible, would a detour have put him in a bad part of town?

[jagstar58]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I have searched on all of my links and find NOTHING. No updates on his best friend's blog - no new searches planned on the calendar of events they had going - no new articles or follow up in the Seattle Times. [/*]

And we still don't know what LE wanted to talk to Christine about on Friday (?) right?

It's very similar to the bringjohnhome.com family. It looks like nothing new but the day changes on their site too.

It's got to be tough if Christine has the kind of personality I think she does. Trying to get movement on missing adults is very difficult. I think most call in cases of missing adults point in the direction of leaving because they wanted to, but you can't just dismiss them either because you never know until you find them.

JMHO

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by jagstar58


And we still don't know what LE wanted to talk to Christine about on Friday (?) right?

It's very similar to the bringjohnhome.com family. It looks like nothing new but the day changes on their site too.

It's got to be tough if Christine has the kind of personality I think she does. Trying to get movement on missing adults is very difficult. I think most call in cases of missing adults point in the direction of leaving because they wanted to, but you can't just dismiss them either because you never know until you find them.

JMHO [/*]

Did you look at the website I put up of the King County Sheriff's office last night? It showed only two people missing and they were old cases. Surely there are more than that - I don't understand why Nicholas' picture would not be on there.

[decor]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Did you look at the website I put up of the King County Sheriff's office last night? It showed only two people missing and they were old cases. Surely there are more than that - I don't understand why Nicholas' picture would not be on there. [/*]

This is the 2nd sentence on that site rainy.

"First, detectives must determine if a person is missing against their will"

since LE doesn't have that proof they don't have him listed there.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by decor


This is the 2nd sentence on that site rainy.

"First, detectives must determine if a person is missing against their will"

since LE doesn't have that proof they don't have him listed there. [/*]

Morning Danette :seeya:
I guess therein lies the problem - determining which is the case.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Morning Danette :seeya:
I guess therein lies the problem - determining which is the case. [/*]

Goor Morning Rainy - sorry was outside mowing ugh! You know after reading that report about the woman's house being broke into and them not taking fingers prints or anything - makes you wonder about the Police Department there anyway. Why bother searching for a missing man, when nothing shows it was foul play!

Seems like that is a popular crime area not far from his work place. They target laptops - ATM cards, so whats not to say they didn't target Nicolas? And if so where is he, they don't kill their victims.

[Nellie]

About the fund raising....
I've always been curious if a couple of the posters at Etsy knew Christine personally or are even a family member. They would say they talked to her sister or talked to her friends, and two questions always crossed my mind.

1. How did they know WHO her sister or friends were and how did they know how to reach them.

2. If they didn't know them personally, then how did they know who they were really talking to on the phone....it could have been anyone.

Just curious....
One time I witnessed a woman online pretend to be her own daughter.

[Nellie]

Another comment about the fundraising....
Someone mentioned that they seemed to be living on the edge.
I guess that could be true. Many people do.
I guess I just have a problem with people living on the edge and then think others are suppose to take care of them. So, maybe it's my own personal feelings that are getting in the way of this case. I guess just hearing that finances were bad before and then instantly turned into a crisis made me feel like the money was being collected to get them out of their financial crisis...that was already made before Nicholas dissappeared rather than provide for their day to day needs NOW while he's gone.

A lot is made of Christine and this other lady in the similar case being "stay at home mom's", dependent on their husband's salary. I understand that. So, if they had jobs would people be setting up fund raising for them or is it just because they don't have jobs? I'm curious about that, sorta.

I also wonder why some think it is so wrong to question some of these things, when the same things would be questioned if the wife went missing. Right now Drew Peterson is pretty hated and some pretty ugly things are said about him because people suspect he killed his wife who has gone missing. But, where's the evidence? Maybe he killed his first one, but where's the evidence that his present wife didn't take off? While I believe she didn't, they don't have evidence of that yet. So, if we are to wait on evidence about this case before jumping to conclusions or have opinions, then why isn't that same standard applied to Drew Peterson. I don't know that I hear anyone calling him "a poor man who's wife ran out on him and has left him to raise his children all alone". I just find it curious how we treat cases differently depending on if it's female or male.

That being said, I do not believe that Christina has harmed her husband or has anything to do with his dissappearance. My first thoughts are still that he has taken off...but I'm open to the possibility of foul play.

There really just isn't much new to say. I do feel sorry for Christina if her husband took off on her, but it happens every day and people don't get funds set up for them. Many women have to deal with this on their own. It's not as if she's all alone....there seems to be a lot of family and friends. So, I guess the appeal for money bothered me more than anything. And I think that may be my own problem....I don't respond well to "woe is me" people who expect others to fix their problems. I guess my next question would be "how long" shall people offer their financial support? I just don't see why the financial support was needed so immediately and that's the part that raised flags for me.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Danette44


Goor Morning Rainy - sorry was outside mowing ugh! You know after reading that report about the woman's house being broke into and them not taking fingers prints or anything - makes you wonder about the Police Department there anyway. Why bother searching for a missing man, when nothing shows it was foul play!

Seems like that is a popular crime area not far from his work place. They target laptops - ATM cards, so whats not to say they didn't target Nicolas? And if so where is he, they don't kill their victims. [/*]

This is why I think the logistics of what he was actually doing when last seen is important. If he was walking toward his car or in the parking garage, someone could have seen him with his laptop and carjacked him. However, AMW says "A colleague saw Nicholas leaving his company's parking lot and that was the last time he was seen." This would lead me to believe that he was safe driving away - so that leave the stop at the grocery store.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by Silver_Dove


I think you have these two turned around your "second" one from the Times is dated 2/19 and they say it is random but your "first" link from pacific publishing is dated 2/24 and says it was not random. My take is this the police have now found out it was not a random act.
. [/*]

Yes. You are right! I mistakenly turned the first two links around. Thank you for pointing that out! LE thought the crime was not randon initially. They later changed their assessment.

[jtazzy]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I would like to add that in looking over those threads she does appear to be very confused. She asked the name of the Texas search organization (Texas Equusearch) - someone gave it to her and she then replied that they did not go outside of Texas. A couple of people sent her links and told her that was wrong but it didn't seem to really sink in until later. I think she emailed the Director but I have no idea what the status of that is. I do wish Tim Miller and team would go down there and help her, but I know there are thousands of people wishing the same thing. [/*]

I really hope she did email them. I also think that LE has to say it is okay if they come search. There is one case I have been following that the family asked and TES was coming and the LE said no. I really hope TES comes and helps search for him. I really don't think that he is just up and left on his own. jmo

[Danette44]

Hi Nellie - I'm curious also is to why it's different for a male and female, where is Reed when you need him - he'd be all over this case. lol I asked why she isn;t going on TV or her local stations pleading for her husbands safe return, I get a link back showing she has - I realize she HAD, but is that 2x's enough to plead for your husbands return?

She claims her children are having nightmares about their Daddy - is this responible to allow your young children to be exposed to such details? I would do what I had to, to shield them from hearing anything. My husband was in the Navy, I had 3 small children that I had to raise alone while he was out to sea for 9 months at a time - I worked full time, took kids to daycare 5 days a week, this was in 1978, them times were alot harder than nowadays - and we had no family around. Yes, Nicholas is missing and yes it may not be to his own doing - but you do what you have to, to protect your children. JMOO

[Track292003]

Can someone help me with more information about LE wanting to talk to Christine as recently as this past Friday, February 29? How do we know that?

I read here that the investigators wanted to "tell her something" (or words to that effect). I'd have thought they would want to ask her something as well.

I'm also curious about whether she has been posting since then and, if so, if the tone of her messages has changed at all.

I appreciate your responses! Thank you!

[Danette44]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


This is why I think the logistics of what he was actually doing when last seen is important. If he was walking toward his car or in the parking garage, someone could have seen him with his laptop and carjacked him. However, AMW says "A colleague saw Nicholas leaving his company's parking lot and that was the last time he was seen." This would lead me to believe that he was safe driving away - so that leave the stop at the grocery store. [/*]

I'm begining to have no faith in the Police Department now after reading the comments people have to say about needing their help. Makes me wonder if they would check for any camera's at Costco's or Safeway now. The time frame seems to be, between 6:10pm when he left work and 10pm would she notified the police he was missing, is that correct? If so there is 4 hrs to figure what happen.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by jtazzy


I really hope she did email them. I also think that LE has to say it is okay if they come search. There is one case I have been following that the family asked and TES was coming and the LE said no. I really hope TES comes and helps search for him. I really don't think that he is just up and left on his own. jmo [/*]

Well this is true - LE would have to okay it. I cannot imagine any LE agency not wanting help. Seems like they let their pride and ego get in the way at times.

[desmom]

I do not believe Christine was involved in Nicholas' disappearance either. Some of her comments do make me a little suspicious about what she knows.....not sure how to put into words...I just have a feeling she knows something important that has not been released to the public.

I do not think his disappearance is a random act/foul play situation because of the timing. People would be heading home from work, stopping at the store, heading out to school/church/social functions, stopping for gas, taking their dogs for walks. I think at that hour someone would have noticed something out of the ordinary. I have not totally ruled out foul play, but I don't think it is at the top of list of possibilities.

Whatever has happened to Nicholas Francisco, I hope he is found safe and the situation is resolved soon.

jmo

[Danette44]

Originally posted by Track292003
Can someone help me with more information about LE wanting to talk to Christine as recently as this past Friday, February 29? How do we know that?

I read here that the investigators wanted to "tell her something" (or words to that effect). I'd have thought they would want to ask her something as well.

I'm also curious about whether she has been posting since then and, if so, if the tone of her messages has changed at all.

I appreciate your responses! Thank you! [/*]

Yes she posted on that prayer site they set - up for her and she thank everyone for their prayers and said still no word on his car, this was Friday night, I'm sorry I don't have the link to that site anymore.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Track292003
Can someone help me with more information about LE wanting to talk to Christine as recently as this past Friday, February 29? How do we know that?

I read here that the investigators wanted to "tell her something" (or words to that effect). I'd have thought they would want to ask her something as well.

I'm also curious about whether she has been posting since then and, if so, if the tone of her messages has changed at all.

I appreciate your responses! Thank you! [/*]

Track - I saw that mentioned, but I didn't read anything about it, so I have not responded. Been kinda waiting myself to see if someone else knew.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by desmom
I do not believe Christine was involved in Nicholas' disappearance either. Some of her comments do make me a little suspicious about what she knows.....not sure how to put into words...I just have a feeling she knows something important that has not been released to the public.

I do not think his disappearance is a random act/foul play situation because of the timing. People would be heading home from work, stopping at the store, heading out to school/church/social functions, stopping for gas, taking their dogs for walks. I think at that hour someone would have noticed something out of the ordinary. I have not totally ruled out foul play, but I don't think it is at the top of list of possibilities.

Whatever has happened to Nicholas Francisco, I hope he is found safe and the situation is resolved soon.

jmo [/*]

Thats not so - Kelsey Smith was kidnap right outside the Target store with people in parking lot going into the store. Mr. Hall was able to get her in her car and drive off and not ONE person seeing anything. So, desmom it could of happen to Nicholas also. jmo

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Danette44


Yes she posted on that prayer site they set - up for her and she thank everyone for their prayers and said still no word on his car, this was Friday night, I'm sorry I don't have the link to that site anymore. [/*]

this one? http://supportingchristine.wordpress.com/

I only saw one post by her and it didn't mention a detective (not saying I didn't miss one)

[field of snow]

Jagstar (and others) --

I am trying hard to not be down on Christine, however, when I get a feeling about someone, I am usually always right. She lost it for me when:

A) Her "felt the baby move" comment. (read back if you are unclear about this --it's been posted)

*) Her shilling between her husband's (which I believe she set up and was probably running for him) and her new shop on Etsy. Both were open at the beginning of February. It's a big sign of dishonesty and deception. Also a sign of desperation.

and other little things....

Did she do something to Nicholas? I don't think so. I don't think anything has been done TO him anyway. Does she know more than she is letting everyone who is supporting her believe? Yes. That is what my opinion is. I think whatever happened is too shameful for her to admit the truth in public because it makes her look bad (at least in her perfect happy marriage eyes).

I don't like feeling anything bad towards her. I just cannot help it given the little things that keep adding up wrong.

[RainyNiteNTx]

My computer is running so slow trying to access this website (all others are fine so don't know what the problem is)....so....

Nellie - I have said more than once on here that Christine is no exception. Had she gone missing, Nicholas' every moment would be on video on the 6:00 pm news. I do not understand the double standard on this at all. Hopefully LE is asking just some darn basic questions that might shed some light.

Danette (I think said this) about Kelsey - yes she was abducted in broad daylight in a busy parking lot - the only problem I have with that comparison is that she was a tiny girl and Nicholas was 6' tall. If there was more than one person though, it could explain it. Again, where was the last time anyone really saw him?

Snow - I don't like feeling bad about people either. I'm trying hard to be objective in spite of things that do not make sense to me. I think Jag and Musterion may have summed up her personality the best.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


this one? http://supportingchristine.wordpress.com/

I only saw one post by her and it didn't mention a detective (not saying I didn't miss one) [/*]

Thats not it Rainy - it was on the newest Etsy sites and she was the 94th poster......I went looking as far back as the 49th page here and can't find it now lol Sorry.

[Danette44]

Oh wait!! That is it, look on the 94th post she is tanking people for their prayers......

[Danette44]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


this one? http://supportingchristine.wordpress.com/

I only saw one post by her and it didn't mention a detective (not saying I didn't miss one) [/*]

I wasn't commenting on a detective, I was just saying yes she had posted online this past week also...sorry for the confusion.

[HarlettOhara]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Did you look at the website I put up of the King County Sheriff's office last night? It showed only two people missing and they were old cases. Surely there are more than that - I don't understand why Nicholas' picture would not be on there. [/*]

Missing person cases, unfortunately, are not a top priority.. unless there is evidence of foul play involved. After an initial search for a person a lot of times the LE will just wait for tip(s) to come in of sightings. Many of their sites are not kept updated with the new missing persons.

[Track292003]

Thannks, Rainy....I was not aware of that site!

I think that even if Nicholas left of his own volition, he left to get away from some trouble that he saw looming in the future. And maybe the "trouble" became a crisis the evening he went missing and he met with foul play.

I also think he hinted at the trouble to Christine and that LE knows about the situation.

Any comments?

[HarlettOhara]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Well this is true - LE would have to okay it. I cannot imagine any LE agency not wanting help. Seems like they let their pride and ego get in the way at times. [/*]

It happens more often than not... the people that followed Naomi Arnette's case will remember this well... she was a mother of 7 that went missing.. the LE did not do much of anything in trying to locate her for several months. Some of us got involved, got a few things done, TES came in and in 1 1/2 days found Naomi. LE was not happy with them being there and tried to put it off that it was an accident that they found Naomi.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
RE: Nicholas could have been abducted in plain sight in the parking lot.

Maybe..... but he was young and in excellent shape. It would have taken two or three people to grab him, drag him into a car and drive off.

Once again.....most super stores have video cameras on the parking lot. Something would have been spotted if it had occured there. [/*]

Good afternoon everyone.

As far as being abducted in plain site, in the middle of the day.. it would not take more than one person if you have a gun pointed in your face.

And no one knows where Nick ended up. People get carjacked all the time, and not just in parking lots or stores, but you can be stopped at a red light and be car jacked.

[desmom]

These article may explain why the Franciscos' resigned from the Mars Hill Church. There appears to be some internal issues.

http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/mark-driscoll-and-mars-hill-elders-in-%e2%80%9cmajor%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cminor%e2%80%9d-sin/

http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/mark-driscoll-and-mars-hill-elders-betrayers-of-a-trust/

http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/mark-driscoll-continues-to-lie-to-mars-hill-members/#more-66

[Musterion]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
RE: Nicholas could have been abducted in plain sight in the parking lot.

Maybe..... but he was young and in excellent shape. It would have taken two or three people to grab him, drag him into a car and drive off.

Once again.....most super stores have video cameras on the parking lot. Something would have been spotted if it had occured there. [/*]

There appear to be conflicting statements if Nicholas was seen leaving in his car or not.

If he never was able to leave the area where his car was parked there would be no video cameras to record him. That we are aware of.

As far as being young and healthy statistics show that those two factors make it MORE likely a person will suffer from a violent crime:

The odds of being a victim of a violent crime during adulthood are greater than 2 to 1. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Youth Violence Research Bulletin — February 2002)

In 2005 --
The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports show that in 2005, 88% of murder victims were age 18 or older. Of all murder victims, 45% were 20 to 34 years old.

Males experienced higher victimization rates than females for all types of violent crime except rape/sexual assault.
According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, most murder victims were male, 79% in 2005.

See also Homicide Trends in the United States and Data Online for characteristics of homicide victims by State and large locality.
Men were more likely than women to be the victim of a carjacking (2 men and 1 women per 10,000 persons). (Burea of Justice Statistics).

[Musterion]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
RE: the mistreatment of Christine.

Actually people are being very kind to her.

But as it was brought up, had it been the other way around and the pregnant Christine missing, Nicholas would be under the microscope.

He would have been interrogated and asked to take a lie detector test and maybe asked to stay away from his job....take a leave of absence until the case was cleared. After all, no one wants to work with someone under suspicion or considered "a person of interest"

So the mere asking of questions.....is not that hateful. If it gets answers than it was needed [/*]

Maybe Christine was asked to take a polygraph.

Questions do need to be asked, about Nicholas mostly. IMO.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
I think that if Christine had been asked to take a lie detector test.....she would have stated this all over the various boards about this injustice. [/*]

Or she could have been advised to keep quiet.

[desmom]

Re: Financial Issues

Many corporations issue credit cards to their employees. My husband has one for airline tickets, hotels, meals etc. He can also use the card for personal expenses, but the company expects the personal expenses to be paid in full when the bill arrives - no time payments.

What if the debt NF was shielding from CF was personal use of the corporate cc?

[dianaelaine]

YAY! I'm able to post again!

PHEW! Was having withdrawal anxiety all ready. :D

Anyway, I'm the one who received the message, and here is the whole thing:

----------------------------------------------

Christine is sick and just trying to be alone and stay off the internet for a while. She is sick too. I asked what she needed and she just said that money is the best thing now. Since she is unable to run her Etsy business she has no source of income at all......"

There is no new news as to clues or leads or anything.. more and more people are becoming convinced that he left her... at least that is what i am getting from people that knew them in the past and online.... I will keep checking in every few days or so.

-----------------------------------------------

So there ya go, draw your own conclusions ... :)

Diana

[dianaelaine]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
I am glad you are back. [/*]

Me too Beth! And thank you. :)

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Musterion


Maybe Christine was asked to take a polygraph.

Questions do need to be asked, about Nicholas mostly. IMO. [/*]

Hi Musterion! I agree with you on many points.
I'm curious...what type of questions do you think need to be asked about Nicholas? Do you have any thoughts concerning him?

[dianaelaine]

I can give her name and even her shop name ... but should I?

I don't want to get in trouble.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by dianaelaine
YAY! I'm able to post again!

PHEW! Was having withdrawal anxiety all ready. :D

Anyway, I'm the one who received the message, and here is the whole thing:

----------------------------------------------

Christine is sick and just trying to be alone and stay off the internet for a while. She is sick too. I asked what she needed and she just said that money is the best thing now. Since she is unable to run her Etsy business she has no source of income at all......"

There is no new news as to clues or leads or anything.. more and more people are becoming convinced that he left her... at least that is what i am getting from people that knew them in the past and online.... I will keep checking in every few days or so.

-----------------------------------------------

So there ya go, draw your own conclusions ... :)

Diana [/*]

Very interesting, if true. Perhaps this young woman is becoming depressed?

The thing about the "no income" now...I can understand. But it just came too soon for me. I guess before appealing to strangers on the internet (which I probably wouldn't do anyway), my family would help me. I wouldn't instantly go into a money panic...that makes Nicholas look like he was just a meal ticket. But, realistically, the money would eventually become an issue. So, I would not close down the ONLY source of income I had, #1.
Secondly, I'd be calling my mortgage company and credit card companies, utilities, etc and tell them the situation and see what arrangements they could do to help me out. Utilities actually have funds set up to help people out. I'd also be appealing to my church family for help. Even though they had just resigned their church, they were members there for at least 2-3 years, so I just can't imagine that they would totally desert them in a great time of need. Also, many other churches will help out a woman with two small children in the community even if they never knew her. There are just other ways of getting help than an internet group and putting out the word that you need money. I'd be going to the resources in my community to see what I would be available for....even foodstamps.

The panic should not have been so immediate for funds to live on RIGHT NOW. I just feel like the panic was more about bills already made instead of living expenses for today.

I could be wrong...just the way I feel about the fund raising.
There are even government agencies that could help her.

[Nellie]

One other thing...
What do other women do who have a husband who leaves them?
They all don't do fundraising. Women find themselves in the situtation every day of a husband taking off and leaving them with small children and no income. What do they do? The element of him "missing", I guess, makes her more of a sympathetic case, rather than a woman who has had her man leave her.

But. how long can the funds keep coming in? And why did she panic that he'd never come home so quickly? And what future plans would she have for income? I hope someone in her community is helping her to plan her future and giving her advice on how to handle this loss of income.

[dianaelaine]

I have to leave for awhile guys ... going out to shop a bit and eat.

I'll check back in when I return. :)

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


Hi Musterion! I agree with you on many points.
I'm curious...what type of questions do you think need to be asked about Nicholas? Do you have any thoughts concerning him? [/*]

I would be interested to hear this also, as Musterion (IMO) has been a fair, unbiased poster for both Christine and Nicholas.

DianaElaine - glad to see you back :seeya:

[desmom]

Originally posted by Nellie

--snipped--


There are even government agencies that could help her. [/*]

I have found several agencies that could possibly help Christine. Because she is pregnant and has 2 children, they would be considered a family of four.

This site helps families apply for benefits and locate resources in their community.

http://www.parenthelp123.org/

Parents work hard to provide for their families. Sometimes they need a little help. ParentHelp123 can help you find out if your family may qualify for health insurance and food programs in Washington State!

I am sure this is the last thing she wants to do, but sometimes Moms have to do things they don't want to do to provide for their children.

jmo

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by HarlettOhara


Missing person cases, unfortunately, are not a top priority.. unless there is evidence of foul play involved. After an initial search for a person a lot of times the LE will just wait for tip(s) to come in of sightings. Many of their sites are not kept updated with the new missing persons. [/*]

Well that is sad - it seems they would err on the side of caution - all it is is a click of a button to add or delete the pic.

[desmom]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
RE: inventory.

Then what was in the storage unit where he was last seen.

That eyewitness is sure it was Nicholas and recognized the car...... this was posted somewhere but can't say where. Might have been on another board. [/*]

Just throwing out possiblities.

Another car?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Beth
"There is no new news as to clues or leads or anything.. more and more people are becoming convinced that he left her... at least that is what i am getting from people that knew them in the past and online."

Was the above part of the message to dianaelaine or dianaelaine's own response? If it was part of the message, is this person saying that even people that C and N know are starting to believe that he left her? [/*]

YAY! I'm able to post again!

PHEW! Was having withdrawal anxiety all ready.

Anyway, I'm the one who received the message, and here is the whole thing:

----------------------------------------------

Christine is sick and just trying to be alone and stay off the internet for a while. She is sick too. I asked what she needed and she just said that money is the best thing now. Since she is unable to run her Etsy business she has no source of income at all......"

There is no new news as to clues or leads or anything.. more and more people are becoming convinced that he left her... at least that is what i am getting from people that knew them in the past and online.... I will keep checking in every few days or so.

-----------------------------------------------

So there ya go, draw your own conclusions ...

Diana

There is a line drawn after that second paragraph so it looks like part of the message from that other person[/*]

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Beth
I thought I read (and i could be wrong), that she had all of her inventory in her house, in a room filled with nothing but fabric and inventory. Anybody else remember this or something similar? [/*]

I thought I remembered something similar - like they had fixed up a room for her sewing needs. I know on the website below it mentions working on their house - not sure what that entailed.

http://www.franciscodesign.com/

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Beth
I have a quick question and can't seem to figure it out. Maybe somebody can help me?

When i registered here, I used my work email. I just went into my office and was mortified to see 1500 emails from this board in my inbox. Even when i went into my profile and edited the email settings, they are still coming. Does anybody know which specific option would stop these emails?

TIA [/*]

LOLOL it is under notifications under the UserCP button

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
Re: your e-mail program.

I think you need to unsubscribe to the thread...... the e-mails should stop.. [/*]

oops you're right - I have notifications sent to email when I have a PM

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Beth
I have a quick question and can't seem to figure it out. Maybe somebody can help me?

When i registered here, I used my work email. I just went into my office and was mortified to see 1500 emails from this board in my inbox. Even when i went into my profile and edited the email settings, they are still coming. Does anybody know which specific option would stop these emails?

TIA [/*]

Ah, I was just getting ready to look that up myself! Too many emails! Here's what you do: go to "User CP" at the top of the page. Then go to the "Edit Options" link. Then go to "Use 'Email Notification' by default?". Change "yes" to "no". Save. Ta da! Hope it works, I just tried it on mine.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by dianaelaine
YAY! I'm able to post again!

PHEW! Was having withdrawal anxiety all ready. :D

Anyway, I'm the one who received the message, and here is the whole thing:

----------------------------------------------

Christine is sick and just trying to be alone and stay off the internet for a while. She is sick too. I asked what she needed and she just said that money is the best thing now. Since she is unable to run her Etsy business she has no source of income at all......"

There is no new news as to clues or leads or anything.. more and more people are becoming convinced that he left her... at least that is what i am getting from people that knew them in the past and online.... I will keep checking in every few days or so.

-----------------------------------------------

So there ya go, draw your own conclusions ... :)

Diana [/*]

There is no conclusion to be drawn, IMO. This is, at best, second or third hand information from an unknown source. There is no context to go on. Erroneous and sometimes dangerous conclusions can be drawn from sound bites and conversations taken out of context. JMO.

[desmom]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
Re: your e-mail program.

I think you need to unsubscribe to the thread...... the e-mails should stop.. [/*]

It sounds like it. This explains email notification and how to subscribe/unsubscribe.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/misc.php?action=faq&page=3#notify

[desmom]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I thought I remembered something similar - like they had fixed up a room for her sewing needs. I know on the website below it mentions working on their house - not sure what that entailed.

http://www.franciscodesign.com/ [/*]

From the above link:

7/09

Nicholas is remodeling an entire room in our house and 1/4 of it (but we all know it will be more) will be for my boutique/sewing. For now ALL of my fabric (i have tons) is taking up 1/4 of my living room and is an unorganized eye sore, at least though the fabrics are pretty to look at

[desmom]

Originally posted by hippiegirl
i thought it notified you whenever there was a post to this thread, as opposed to a PM. [/*]

If you check yes in the "Use Email Notification by default", you will receive an email whenever someone replies to a thread that you have participated in.

If you check yes in the "Send you an email when you receive a Private Message", you will receive an email notifying you of a pm.

I have both boxes checked NO.

I do have the "Pop up a box when you receive a Private Message" marked yes. Whenever I log in or refresh a page, a box will pop up informing me of a pm.


All of the above is under User CP.

jmo

[Musterion]

Originally posted by Nellie


Hi Musterion! I agree with you on many points.
I'm curious...what type of questions do you think need to be asked about Nicholas? Do you have any thoughts concerning him? [/*]

Any questions that keep the focus on him and keep his name and face in the public. Questions that have more than likely been asked of the people closest to him. Regarding his character, his state of mind, his background. His habits. His interests. His movements and communications the last day, week, month, year of his life. Questions you and I probably cannot answer.

My thoughts concerning him are based on statistics. Statistically speaking he is more likely to have been a victim of a random violent crime than to have planned an escape from his life. That breaks my heart for his little ones and his wife, his family and friends.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth
I thought I read (and i could be wrong), that she had all of her inventory in her house, in a room filled with nothing but fabric and inventory. Anybody else remember this or something similar? [/*]

In the interview with Nick's mom that I posted some pages back, she said Nick had either built on or redecorated a whole room devoted to sewing and Christine's business at their home.

[Silver_Dove]

Storage: in the first days there was a reported sighting of N at a storage unit and a gas station. As far as I know nothing more was said about them and I'm guessing it was just some other guy with a red car.

There has been nothing said to make me believe that they kept her stuff in a storage unit and there as been talk of him remodeling her a room for her sewing.

My take is the storage unit is nothing and she does keep her inventory in the house.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Musterion


Any questions that keep the focus on him and keep his name and face in the public. Questions that have more than likely been asked of the people closest to him. Regarding his character, his state of mind, his background. His habits. His interests. His movements and communications the last day, week, month, year of his life. Questions you and I probably cannot answer.

My thoughts concerning him are based on statistics. Statistically speaking he is more likely to have been a victim of a random violent crime than to have planned an escape from his life. That breaks my heart for his little ones and his wife, his family and friends. [/*]

But the people closest to him would be saying things like he would never leave - not possible. They may have missed small signs that are significant. Someone close to him needs to be able to speak rationally about him, whether it be his boss, his closest friend at work, his best friend, etc. Of course if he kept everything to himself, they may never get a clear picture.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
RE: the mistreatment of Christine.

Actually people are being very kind to her.

But as it was brought up, had it been the other way around and the pregnant Christine missing, Nicholas would be under the microscope.

He would have been interrogated and asked to take a lie detector test and maybe asked to stay away from his job....take a leave of absence until the case was cleared. After all, no one wants to work with someone under suspicion or considered "a person of interest"

So the mere asking of questions.....is not that hateful. If it gets answers than it was needed [/*]

It's much more likely that a man will murder his pregnant SO than a pregnant woman murder hers. :read:

[Musterion]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
...so true but if he was messing around and was going to leave her pregnant and with two children to support.....might want to seek revenge.

Her motive would be just as strong. [/*]

Her motive would be just as strong to what?

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Musterion


Any questions that keep the focus on him and keep his name and face in the public. Questions that have more than likely been asked of the people closest to him. Regarding his character, his state of mind, his background. His habits. His interests. His movements and communications the last day, week, month, year of his life. Questions you and I probably cannot answer.

My thoughts concerning him are based on statistics. Statistically speaking he is more likely to have been a victim of a random violent crime than to have planned an escape from his life. That breaks my heart for his little ones and his wife, his family and friends. [/*]

I agree Musterion.. I feel that he was the victim of a random crime. I hope that I am wrong but it has been a long time and there has been no sign of him. Police haven't been able to locate him.. place him anywhere.. he just vanished.. took no money.. took no clothes.. nothing but a laptop and a cell phone (that he hasn't used)?

I don't have a problem with the talk on here and other boards about the money and Christine.. etc. I think that is just normal for us to think and feel that we should question things about her and her story. People are right.. if it was the other way around.. Nicholas would be getting the same treatment.

But.. I just feel that something happened to him that day.. either in the Costco parking lot or on his way to his car. And I know people will say that someone would have seen something but how many stories have we heard where NOBODY did see anything? I remember a story of a woman assaulted in the grocery store parking lot.. with her children in her car.. and nobody saw a thing except the person who found her lying beside her vehicle. In my mind.. if someone wanted to.. they could have have Nicholas and his car out of the city and on a rural road where nobody would be looking for him in no time.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
...so true but if he was messing around and was going to leave her pregnant and with two children to support.....might want to seek revenge.

Her motive would be just as strong. [/*]

For that scenario to have happened she would have had to do one of two things:

First he was last seen leaving work not home, so she would have had to of either met him somewhere else, with 2 small kids in tow, killed him without anyone seeing her including her four year old, and hid him somewhere. Then she would have had to of taken his car and put it in the parking lot where it was found.. but if she had her own car to drive, how would she accomplish that? Or maybe she waited until he came home then killed him (without her 4 year old who could talk would see) then she would have had to put his body in his car, put her kids in the car, taken the car to where it was found, and cleaned it good enough to where no evidence was found, then walk or take a cab home with two little kids. (moving a heavy dead body of a grown man and her being pregnant would be quite difficult as well.

Or, she paid someone to off the only secure income she had coming in. The father of her kids and the unborn child she is carrying. Most likely she would have had to have paid this person and there would entail a money trail.

[Musterion]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


But the people closest to him would be saying things like he would never leave - not possible. They may have missed small signs that are significant. Someone close to him needs to be able to speak rationally about him, whether it be his boss, his closest friend at work, his best friend, etc. Of course if he kept everything to himself, they may never get a clear picture. [/*]

It seems they believe they are speaking rationally about him. And the consensus is that he is not the type of man to leave.

Good LE and PI work should be able to dig deeper with questions and unearth any inconsistencies in Nicholas' life.

[starling]

anyone see 'The Up Side of Anger'?



Still hoping he took a break :rose:
~S

[Musterion]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


I don't have a problem with the talk on here and other boards about the money and Christine.. etc. I think that is just normal for us to think and feel that we should question things about her and her story. [/*]

Asking questions isn't a bad thing.

Asking questions not based on fact can be harmful and hurtful.

Much of the speculation is based on hearsay, not fact. Much of it is taken out of context.

I, also, have no issue with people asking questions. I just hope that in the process a woman's reputation and character are not ruined. Those are two of the most precious things any of us possess.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
When a person comes up missing the significant other or spouse is immediately suspect.

If it had been Christine that was missing Nicholas would be the first to have to answer the main question. Did she come home or didn't she. If he said no, how many people would REALY believe it. Many wouldn't.

Christine is putting herself in a very difficult position if she knows that he took off but insists that he met with foul play. She is and should be the first person LE looks at for answers.

What really did happen to Nicholas if he did meet with foul play. Who would want him dead and who would profit from his death.

They would think....maybe he DID come home that night.

Please note: I am only speculating and not suggesting that she had anything to do with his death. My opinion is that he left on his own. [/*]

According to news reports (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331671,00.html) LE believes that either he met with foul play or took off. According to authorities, Christine is not a suspect.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


I agree Musterion.. I feel that he was the victim of a random crime. I hope that I am wrong but it has been a long time and there has been no sign of him. Police haven't been able to locate him.. place him anywhere.. he just vanished.. took no money.. took no clothes.. nothing but a laptop and a cell phone (that he hasn't used)?



Mystry - there you are - I was wondering if you could ask your friend a question. Can anyone confirm where exactly Nicholas was when they last saw him? Was he walking toward his car? Was he getting into his car? Did they see him pull out of his parking space? There are conflicting reports and I think it makes a big difference.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
Each member should be able to add what ideas he or she thinks would put the pieces together to make a complete picture of what really happened.

[/*]

Exactly! I totally agree with you there Beth E! :)

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
When a person comes up missing the significant other or spouse is immediately suspect.

If it had been Christine that was missing Nicholas would be the first to have to answer the main question. Did she come home or didn't she. If he said no, how many people would REALY believe it. Many wouldn't.

Christine is putting herself in a very difficult position if she knows that he took off but insists that he met with foul play. She is and should be the first person LE looks at for answers.

What really did happen to Nicholas if he did meet with foul play. Who would want him dead and who would profit from his death.

They would think....maybe he DID come home that night.

Please note: I am only speculating and not suggesting that she had anything to do with his death. My opinion is that he left on his own. [/*]

I don't think that there is any indication that he came home or that she harmed him in any way.

Just because your marriage is not as theirs is/was.. you can't assume that makes her guilty of something. It could have been because he was a gentlemen.. who genuinely loved and cared for his family and loved doing things for them. There is MUCH MORE EVIDENCE of that then ANYTHING ELSE.

I don't think he left on his own.. unless there is a signifcant reason.. such as.. his family being in danger or something like that.

As someone mentioned.. as far as the cell phone being company issued. That has not been determined that I know of.. has it? In fact. I have read that T Mobile handed the records regarding cell towers etc over to Christine and she handed them over to LE.. T Mobile didn't give them to Publicis.. which would indicate that it was a private cellphone.. wouldn't it?

[Track292003]

Nicholas may have, as Desmom suggested, misused a corporate credit card. Perhaps those charges and the money from PayPal added up to a tidy sum.

[greeneyez78]

Does anyone here know that he definately didn't make it home that night???

[Danette44]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
A good discussion group takes a subject that presents a puzzle. Each member should be able to add what ideas he or she thinks would put the pieces together to make a complete picture of what really happened.

No one is insisting that what they feel happen is based on solid evidence. If that evidence were available, there would no longer be a puzzle.

We are here to speculate....not accuse. Leave that up to LE.

Re: Christine. If she doesn't read this board and if people would stop contacting her about what is being said, she would not be so stressed. [/*]

I agree with you Beth Engleman - and for someone who ask to be left alone and staying away from the interent, she just posted on her site when someone said they need to keep her site updated to keep Nicholas in the news, and Christine just replied..........."still nothing", what kind of reply is that? I guess I must be a heartless person for my thoughts of Christine about now. Yes, I will keep them to myself.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by greeneyez78
Does anyone here know that he definately didn't make it home that night??? [/*]

To my knowledge, no.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Mystry - there you are - I was wondering if you could ask your friend a question. Can anyone confirm where exactly Nicholas was when they last saw him? Was he walking toward his car? Was he getting into his car? Did they see him pull out of his parking space? There are conflicting reports and I think it makes a big difference. [/*]

Here I am. I have been having HUGE issues with my DSL the last 3 days... makes it hard to post when it take 10 minutes for the page to load. Hopefully CW will seperate this one soon.. cause we are getting kinda long here.

Nobody saw him get into his car or driving. They saw him on the sidewalk outside Publicis.. walking towards his car. That was the last time anyone saw him. Not sure how many of his coworkers saw him tho.. if it was one of more of them.

[isitme]

Well I will say that once I know someone has not been truthfull about something I tend to not believe them after that. So in this case there is much for me to doubt that C has said.

1. Feeling the baby moving
2. Whether she is even pregant
3. That she has reported the phone calls as they actually happened.
4. That he didn't come home on the 13th
5. What their financial status is/was

[decor]

Originally posted by dianaelaine
YAY! I'm able to post again!

PHEW! Was having withdrawal anxiety all ready. :D

Anyway, I'm the one who received the message, and here is the whole thing:

----------------------------------------------

Christine is sick and just trying to be alone and stay off the internet for a while. She is sick too. I asked what she needed and she just said that money is the best thing now. Since she is unable to run her Etsy business she has no source of income at all......"

There is no new news as to clues or leads or anything.. more and more people are becoming convinced that he left her... at least that is what i am getting from people that knew them in the past and online.... I will keep checking in every few days or so.

-----------------------------------------------

So there ya go, draw your own conclusions ... :)

Diana [/*]

I would be interested to know why people from the past feel that he left on his own. Also wonder if her current personal friends feel the same. (not internet friends as I think they cannot actually know a person strictly from the internet).
Also his best friend's blog looks like it has gone back to everyday living, he added a link to America's Most Wanted on the 25th and that was the end of it.
Of course I am not sure what more he could have written or done but it just seems so strange, maybe because we are still discussing it.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Here I am. I have been having HUGE issues with my DSL the last 3 days... makes it hard to post when it take 10 minutes for the page to load. Hopefully CW will seperate this one soon.. cause we are getting kinda long here.

Nobody saw him get into his car or driving. They saw him on the sidewalk outside Publicis.. walking towards his car. That was the last time anyone saw him. Not sure how many of his coworkers saw him tho.. if it was one of more of them. [/*]

I'm having problems also waiting for it to load....thank you for your answer. To me that makes a big difference - he may never have made it out of his parking space.

[decor]

Originally posted by isitme
Well I will say that once I know someone has not been truthfull about something I tend to not believe them after that. So in this case there is much for me to doubt that C has said.

1. Feeling the baby moving
2. Whether she is even pregant
3. That she has reported the phone calls as they actually happened.
4. That he didn't come home on the 13th
5. What their financial status is/was [/*]

I agree. once a person lies all credibility goes out the window.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
OK so you think he met with foul play.

Who would do such a thing and why?

They didn't take his car, didn't use his credit cards and have not used his bank account. He didn't have much in his wallet. They didn't take and use his cell phone or his computer. So, we can rule out robbery.

Who would abduct him to harm him. Who would profit most from his death? Who indeed. [/*]

WHAT?? How could you possibly rule out robbery??

We don't know what he had in his wallet. IT IS MISSING!

We don't know that nobody took his cell phone or computer!!! IT IS MISSING

TMobile uses sim cards in their phones.. take the sim card out and you have a phone to sell.. as far as his laptop.. uh.. how do you know nobody is using it? Someone hasn't tried to sell it?

The car? How do you know that the person responsible for his disappearance wasn't using his vehicle. IT had been moved around in the parking lot of the condos. Just because they didn't see anything out of the ordinary.. doesn't mean ANYTHING!

[decor]

was the car really moved around the parking lot or did someone say that they thought it had been moved. I can't remember where it was quoted.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by decor


I would be interested to know why people from the past feel that he left on his own. Also wonder if her current personal friends feel the same. (not internet friends as I think they cannot actually know a person strictly from the internet).
Also his best friend's blog looks like it has gone back to everyday living, he added a link to America's Most Wanted on the 25th and that was the end of it.
Of course I am not sure what more he could have written or done but it just seems so strange, maybe because we are still discussing it. [/*]

John Glasgow's site is being kept current with a running time of how long he has been missing. This is what I find so sad - nothing is being updated for Nicholas. Their calendar of events shows nothing since the 27th and his friend's blog has not been updated.

[Silver_Dove]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
OK so you think he met with foul play.

Who would do such a thing and why?

They didn't take his car, didn't use his credit cards and have not used his bank account. He didn't have much in his wallet. They didn't take and use his cell phone or his computer. So, we can rule out robbery.

Who would abduct him to harm him. Who would profit most from his death? Who indeed. [/*]

If and I don't believe it personal he met with foul play I can't believe it was anything but planned for it to be so neat and tidy. No evidence, no motive, no robbery of an amount that would make a difference.

I don't believe it was for insurance or any monetary gain because they were so neat. In order to collect anything you have to have a body or a good probability he was killed other wise she will have to wait 7 years to have him declared dead. Much better to have had a messy murder with a body.

I don't think C had anything to do with it just wants so bad for him not to have left her so the only other choice would be to have him dead. I guess I kind of hope she does get enough money to support herself and her kids at least till she has the baby because she is going to either have to find a new husband or go to work at some point if he doesn't show up.

[abstr]

There was someone who reported seeing Nicholas there. I don't recall reading anywhere that it was confirmed that they had a storage space.

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
RE: inventory.

Then what was in the storage unit where he was last seen.

That eyewitness is sure it was Nicholas and recognized the car...... this was posted somewhere but can't say where. Might have been on another board. [/*]

[desmom]

Re: cell phone

Feb. 22, 2008
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=29560

Christine also says she has had no luck tracking his phone records.

"T-Mobile will not release it because I'm not on the account. And that's only because it's through his company."


Feb. 23, 2008

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004196637_francisco23m.html

Private negotiations with Francisco's cellphone company resulted in T-Mobile's "generous" offer to release the records voluntarily, according to his wife, Christine Francisco.

She said she turned the records over to detectives Friday.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth
After reading that link, put out by his company, I'm not seeing that his cellphone is even missing. Maybe it has been verified somewhere, but I'm not seeing it there. I'm seeing that they have been unsuccessful in obtaining his cellphone records, but nothing about a missing cellphone. [/*]

According to this link (http://www.katu.com/news/15724947.html) it says:

She said that deputies also have beeen pinging his cell phone, but have gotten no response. Nicholas' co-workers say his cell phone batteries were dead on his last day at work.

I doubt they would be pinging a cell phone that is not missing.

[abstr]

I think that could be taken two ways.
1...the phone was issued to him by Publicis. If so why would they need a court order to get phone records

2...Nicholas got a discount because he was employed by Publicis and that's why he opened the account in his name. Typically a cell phone bill or other utility bills are just in one spouses name.

Nothing I've read about the cell phone confirmed much.

Originally posted by Beth
"Christine also says she has had no luck tracking his phone records.T-Mobile will not release it because I'm not on the account. And that's only because it's through his company." [/*]

[Silver_Dove]

Originally posted by decor
was the car really moved around the parking lot or did someone say that they thought it had been moved. I can't remember where it was quoted. [/*]

From the Nancy Grace interview transcript here:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/21/ng.01.html

close to the end of the transcript

GRACE: Well, Christine, what is this I heard about his car being in different parking spots?

FRANCISCO: That`s what has been reported but it`s -- I don`t know.

I found it interest like she was going to try to say it was true then changed her mind. Since if it was true chances are good he was moving it or someone he gave the keys to.

[seattlematt]

Hi Guys!

I'm new, but have been lurking since day 2 of his disappearance. I have become slightly obsessed with this case (it's funky weather season here in Seattle... so it's something to do).

A few thoughts....

1. His cell phone isn't really that significant. I think it's been pointed out once or twice.. but going to state it again. He could have picked up a prepaid phone. They are available practically everywhere and it isn't much of a hassle to get one (you don't have to give Credit Card information.. or even your real name for that matter).

2. The whole Costco thing is very fishy.... there is a big Safeway no more than 2 blocks from his office (I shop there often). And... how many cookies are these people baking to need sugar from Costco.

3. The whole storage facility thing is intriguing. It is highly possible that he had a car stashed there that CF didn't know about.

4. I too think the whole money thing is VERY fishy. There was too much that came together too quickly.

I've been of the theory since about day 8 that he had been banking money on the side that he didn't tell her about, cashed out, and hit the open road.

Time will only tell I guess

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Beth


Okay, so that rules out the cellphone but what about the laptop? Has it been confirmed that it was a company laptop? People automatically assume my laptop is my company's because I work from it, both at home and at work. In reality, it is my personal laptop that I bought to make my life easier so that when I'm paged in the middle of the night, I don't have to drive to my office or elsewhere to resolve work related issues. I still have a desktop at work and I wonder if he did as well? [/*]

I wondered if it was his own laptop, and not the company's, but based on how the company reported that they were attempting to trace the laptop, it seems to indicate it was theirs, or at least they had some details on it. See http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com/

The fact that they state it has been filed in some "national crimes" database, that they are checking to see if it pops up on craigslist, etc., seems like they may have had detailed info about it. I suppose they could have just known the make of it and put that in. They also state "And for Nicholas' laptop, AirPort was the built-in method or card he used." but again, that's something they could just know based on the model -- AirPort comes standard on the Macbook.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by desmom
Re: cell phone

Feb. 22, 2008
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=29560




Feb. 23, 2008

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004196637_francisco23m.html

[/*]

I still don't understand. Was it a work phone or not and why would they give the records to Christine when she wasn't on the account and the phone and bill were the property of Publicis? That makes no sense to me.

But.. I do have to say.. if it was a company phone and they wanted him to be able to be mobile and still be able to get ahold of him then I he would have been provided with a car charger too. So, did he have one? Any.. why.. if he did, didn't he use it? AND why point out to Christine and coworkers that it was dead if he was able to plug it in once he got in the car... it should have been a non-issue.

Another thing that I have heard is that not much is being said about the disappearance at Publicis. Maybe the PI for Publicis did find something and the big wigs there no about it and that is why they aren't saying much. I don't know but I thought that was strange.

[desmom]

Originally posted by seattlematt
Hi Guys!

I'm new, but have been lurking since day 2 of his disappearance. I have become slightly obsessed with this case (it's funky weather season here in Seattle... so it's something to do).

A few thoughts....

1. His cell phone isn't really that significant. I think it's been pointed out once or twice.. but going to state it again. He could have picked up a prepaid phone. They are available practically everywhere and it isn't much of a hassle to get one (you don't have to give Credit Card information.. or even your real name for that matter).

2. The whole Costco thing is very fishy.... there is a big Safeway no more than 2 blocks from his office (I shop there often). And... how many cookies are these people baking to need sugar from Costco.

3. The whole storage facility thing is intriguing. It is highly possible that he had a car stashed there that CF didn't know about.

4. I too think the whole money thing is VERY fishy. There was too much that came together too quickly.

I've been of the theory since about day 8 that he had been banking money on the side that he didn't tell her about, cashed out, and hit the open road.

Time will only tell I guess [/*]

Welcome to Insession Boards!

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Beth


True, but if it were dead and in his office somewhere (a drawer?) would you still be able to ping it and get a read or location? Or, does it have to be on? [/*]

I think we went through this with the Kelsey case - it has to be on.

Since my computer is so slow getting here, I'm going to make this multi-purpose. To the poster Abstr? - I believe you are correct. I'm sure TMobile gave their employees a big discount and it was through the company he got his phone in his name.

Welcome SeattleMatt - we used to have a SeattleEddie but he bailed on us :)

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth


True, but if it were dead and in his office somewhere (a drawer?) would you still be able to ping it and get a read or location? Or, does it have to be on? [/*]

Well obviously they do not tell us everything in an investigation, but I am sure LE as well as his employer has searched his office/desk.

As far as the pinging thing, according to this link (http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/consumersmarts/archives/122707.asp) it says:

And if the cell phone goes out of range or runs out of battery power, the mobile operator may be able to use the last recorded location before the cell phone either lost its signal or lost power.

which to me sounds like if its off or the battery is dead, it cannot be pinged but the article does not say for sure...

[RainyNiteNTx]

Mystry - bless you - I too am hung up on that car charger. I would be willing to bet that the employees on the TMobile plan had any and all accessories they needed. Someone said his battery was dead, but again, I'm sure the company had extra supplies there.

[seattlematt]

[
which to me sounds like if its off or the battery is dead, it cannot be pinged but the article does not say for sure... [/*]

If it is off.... it at that point becomes nothing more than a brick.

[desmom]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


I wondered if it was his own laptop, and not the company's, but based on how the company reported that they were attempting to trace the laptop, it seems to indicate it was theirs, or at least they had some details on it. See http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com/

The fact that they state it has been filed in some "national crimes" database, that they are checking to see if it pops up on craigslist, etc., seems like they may have had detailed info about it. I suppose they could have just known the make of it and put that in. They also state "And for Nicholas' laptop, AirPort was the built-in method or card he used." but again, that's something they could just know based on the model -- AirPort comes standard on the Macbook. [/*]

This computer sounds important.

How many pawn shops, college bulletin boards, flea markets, used computer shops etc are in the Seattle area?

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Silver_Dove


From the Nancy Grace interview transcript here:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/21/ng.01.html

close to the end of the transcript

GRACE: Well, Christine, what is this I heard about his car being in different parking spots?

FRANCISCO: That`s what has been reported but it`s -- I don`t know.

I found it interest like she was going to try to say it was true then changed her mind. Since if it was true chances are good he was moving it or someone he gave the keys to. [/*]

The car was moved according to a couple that lives at the condos.. two days before it was found.. it was in the spot they own, for some time, and they were upset about it. They thought that someone from a neighboring apt. complex was using their lot cause the car wasn't familiar to them.

I guess they could have been lying about it.. but not sure why they would.

They also weren't the only people that said something about it being in different spots.. Several residents "thought" they had seen it in other spots.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by seattlematt


If it is off.... it at that point becomes nothing more than a brick. [/*]

Right - as long as Kelsey's phone was on, they were receiving pings but once it died or was destroyed, it became useless as a tracking system.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by seattlematt


If it is off.... it at that point becomes nothing more than a brick. [/*]

Thanks Matt and welcome. :)

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


I still don't understand. Was it a work phone or not and why would they give the records to Christine when she wasn't on the account and the phone and bill were the property of Publicis? That makes no sense to me.

But.. I do have to say.. if it was a company phone and they wanted him to be able to be mobile and still be able to get ahold of him then I he would have been provided with a car charger too. So, did he have one? Any.. why.. if he did, didn't he use it? AND why point out to Christine and coworkers that it was dead if he was able to plug it in once he got in the car... it should have been a non-issue.

Another thing that I have heard is that not much is being said about the disappearance at Publicis. Maybe the PI for Publicis did find something and the big wigs there no about it and that is why they aren't saying much. I don't know but I thought that was strange. [/*]

That last bit is interesting, Mystry -- I had been wondering about that since you know someone who works there, right? There haven't been any updates on the company search blog for almost a week so I wondered if they found something too.

Personally, if I were Christine, I'd take some of the $$ she's been donated and hire my own PI, if she really, truly does not know where he is. The Publicis PI isn't obligated to tell her anything even if they do find him alive and well in Mexico or whatever.

She probably really, really doesn't want to believe that he left her but the possibility exists. And if LE believes he left on his own, they are not going to keep looking for him. She will have to be proactive to find him herself so she can pursue legal action to get him to support his children.

Anyone care to hazard a guess of how much $$ she might have received by now -- at least from the Etsy community? of course we could only speculate since nothing has been reported.

[desmom]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Mystry - bless you - I too am hung up on that car charger. I would be willing to bet that the employees on the TMobile plan had any and all accessories they needed. Someone said his battery was dead, but again, I'm sure the company had extra supplies there. [/*]

Excellent points!

I bet the company also had chargers around the office.

IIRC, several reports stated he told coworkers his battery was dead and then he tells Christine. Was he laying the ground work in case someone did try to reach him and it went to his voice mail?

[seattlematt]

Originally posted by desmom


Excellent points!

I bet the company also had chargers around the office.

IIRC, several reports stated he told coworkers his battery was dead and then he tells Christine. Was he laying the ground work in case someone did try to reach him and it went to his voice mail? [/*]

It's a T-Mobile phone.....T-Mobile is a GSM carrier... *Most* GSM phones have a battery life of several days with normal usage.

I have both a blackberry and a razor and they can go an entire weekend without a charge.... so he would had to have had not charged his phone the night before or the night before that.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by seattlematt


It's a T-Mobile phone.....T-Mobile is a GSM carrier... *Most* GSM phones have a battery life of several days with normal usage.

I have both a blackberry and a razor and they can go an entire weekend without a charge.... so he would had to have had not charged his phone the night before or the night before that. [/*]

This is what is so baffling to me. Christine said he would call if he was going to be 15 minutes late so I cannot see him failing to charge his phone (possibly for 2 days) knowing she was pregnant and driving an older model car.

[seattlematt]

I'm venturing out here in a bit..... does anyone want pictures of any of the afore mentioned locations????

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


(snipped)
Another thing that I have heard is that not much is being said about the disappearance at Publicis. Maybe the PI for Publicis did find something and the big wigs there no about it and that is why they aren't saying much. I don't know but I thought that was strange. [/*]

After reading all I did yesterday about Publicis, you may be on to something. Maybe they do not want any more bad publicity. Maybe THAT is why they hired the PI because they were worried it happened right their at their doorstep.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


This is what is so baffling to me. Christine said he would call if he was going to be 15 minutes late so I cannot see him failing to charge his phone (possibly for 2 days) knowing she was pregnant and driving an older model car. [/*]

What hasn't been brought up that I have noticed is usually men if they have company cell phones they also have their personal cell phones - I have both also.....just a thought

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by seattlematt
I'm venturing out here in a bit..... does anyone want pictures of any of the afore mentioned locations???? [/*]

Yes please!

[decor]

"Several residents "thought" they had seen it in other spots."

this is what I was wondering. Having witnessed a few things myself you realize that if you were not made aware of something until after it happened then most times you question yourself about what you "thought" may have been.

On the other hand if someone specifically knew it was in one spot one day and another the second day because it was in their spot etc. then it is proof that it was moved.

what would the purpose of moving it be? because it wasn't reported right away so it was moved so it would be reported?

I really think that Nick told everyone about the phone so that once he was gone and no one could get a hold of him he didn't want them to think something had happened to him because he didn't answer the phone. I really feel that was a complete set up.

I would think that if the car was found there and Nick was not then LE would have the right to question the residents unless they know already that he is somewhere else.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by decor
"Several residents "thought" they had seen it in other spots."

this is what I was wondering. Having witnessed a few things myself you realize that if you were not made aware of something until after it happened then most times you question yourself about what you "thought" may have been.

On the other hand if someone specifically knew it was in one spot one day and another the second day because it was in their spot etc. then it is proof that it was moved.

what would the purpose of moving it be? because it wasn't reported right away so it was moved so it would be reported?

I really think that Nick told everyone about the phone so that once he was gone and no one could get a hold of him he didn't want them to think something had happened to him because he didn't answer the phone. I really feel that was a complete set up.

I would think that if the car was found there and Nick was not then LE would have the right to question the residents unless they know already that he is somewhere else. [/*]

Its my understanding they did canvas the apartments but came up with nothing.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by decor

I really think that Nick told everyone about the phone so that once he was gone and no one could get a hold of him he didn't want them to think something had happened to him because he didn't answer the phone. I really feel that was a complete set up.

[/*]

I agree. I just don't see that the one day he tells people his phone battery is dead, that is the day he runs into some trouble. That would just have to be such bad luck!

I imagine how the people who last saw him that day at work, and Christine herself, must be going over in their mind every word he said to them that day. Trying to figure out the clues...

[seattlematt]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Yes please! [/*]

Any particular places???? (other than the condo's in Federal Way?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by seattlematt


Any particular places???? (other than the condo's in Federal Way? [/*]

all sides of the Publicis building if possible

[Track292003]

Thank you, SeattleMatt, for offering to take photos...I'm sure we would all like to see them.

Also, the mention of "SeattleEddie" reminds me of something reported briefly on this forum about some of the posters re: Nicholas being missing had disappeared after they'd been put up, I believe in his office area -- either because of the wind and rain or because they were deliberately removed. Do you know anything about that, by any chance? Are there many posters up in the city now?

TIA.

[seattlematt]

Re: "Nick" Francisco.... see overlapping addresses..... It is entirely possible he went by both.

http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_zaba.php?sname=NICHOLAS+FRANCISCO&name_style=1&state=WA

[dianaelaine]

I'm back from shopping and dinner.

Went to Olive Garden and had ravioli with Marinara sauce, soup & breadsticks, and because it took so long, they gave us free dessert. YUM!

OK, enough about me. :D

From the very beginning, I mentioned that when he told his co-workers and C, that his cell was out, it was strange. If it's out at work, either charge it there before leaving or plug it in as soon as you get in the car.

Also, WHY tell your co-workers? There's really no reason to.

It WAS as if he were setting it up, so C would know that ... so nobody could contact him from that point on.

And about the person who sent me the information I posted earlier, this is how it was written:

---------------------------------------

BLANK spoke with BLANK on Wednesday this is what she said:

"I just spoke to BLANK today and she said that Christine is sick and just trying to be alone and stay off the internet for a while ..... and so on and so on ....

--------------------------------------------

I was told by another member, that this person is actually talking to Christine.

So if that's true, I'd guess that the statements are pretty much straight on from Christine.

I do agree that she might want to think about using some of that money to hire a P.I. of her own to find him, for the kid's sake and child support.

I also fine it ironic that there's no more searching, or at least not very active.

So ... that's about all I have for now.

OH .. and the fact that I'm pissed at my husband for watching the waitress' *** too much. :flamemad:

[seattlematt]

Originally posted by Track292003
Thank you, SeattleMatt, for offering to take photos...I'm sure we would all like to see them.

Also, the mention of "SeattleEddie" reminds me of something reported briefly on this forum about some of the posters re: Nicholas being missing had disappeared after they'd been put up, I believe in his office area -- either because of the wind and rain or because they were deliberately removed. Do you know anything about that, by any chance? Are there many posters up in the city now?

TIA. [/*]

The posters are scattered all over the place. There is one still up (circa before there was a reward) on the corner by my apartment.

The weather in seattle is crazy... it's entirely possible they got wet, were blown off, or some drunk person ripped them down.

[mc528]

As you all can tell from my registration date, I'm new to this board. I may be new with regards to posting here, but I've been following this case from the start, both here and all of the other boards. I'm also a seller on Etsy.com, which is where I first learned of Nicholas' disappearance. I do not know either Christine or Nicholas personally, and before the original post there, I had no interactions with either one. I'm also someone who had posted words of encouragement early on in the Etsy threads, but only once or twice - before those threads started to become as bazaar as they did. I also even sent Christine a small donation via PayPal - in the very, very beginning, when it was believed that the $ would help with the reward, and before it was even posted that here sister had conveyed the *desparate need for funds*. I'm mentionaing all of this, just to give some background, before I add my two cents and thoughts to the discussion here.

From very early on in the Etsy drama, I was (and still am) convinced that not everything purported to have been said, or even posted by Christine really was her posting - a trusted family member could have had her log-in information and used her shop to post in the forums. To me, there were too many inconsitencies in the writing style when comparing postings to each other, or to the style of her writing on her Etsy sites, Flickr accounts, etc. Sometimes there were complete sentences, and other times just phrases. Sometimes words were capitalized, and other times the same words were not. And messages in one posting would on occasion seem to not make sense when compared to other postings referencing the same events. An example would be when one of her posts the day before she was to meet with the detective alone referenced why he wanted to meet with her, yet when *she* came back to the thread after the meeting there was no mention of what the original purpose was to be. And to me, her vocabulary and demeanor on the t.v. interviews I watched also didn't always fit with the messages that were left under her name. And I agree that she came across on t.v. much more angry as opposed to grief stricken and distraught. So I guess, for me, some of the criticisms being made that were in reference to on-line postings may actually be, in a way, unfair to Christine because not all of them may have actually been her words - but that said, I do strongly believe that some of those indeed were her. Of course, I could be totally wrong on this whole aspect.

I was also very bothered by the immediate and continued requests for funds that Christine herself stated, in her lengthy post on Etsy on 2/23 were going to be used for groceries and to pay bills, and not towards the reward or efforts to find Nicholas. (she stated she didn't know where the reward money was coming from). This was just one of the statements that led me to believe that she knew more than what was being mentioned, and that she did indeed have reason to believe that Nicholas was not returning and that there would be no further $ from his job, or there was a far more serious reason for needing so much money so soon.....like either a ransom, as has been suggested, or to pay back a large sum of money for something - a lot more than what one would normally need.

As to what she saw when she logged into Nicholas' PayPal account (and she was very specific I believe when she said *his* account and not *hers* or *theirs*) - I don't believe it was a PayPal credit card balance, or even anything directly related to the funds balance at all. I think what she may have discovered had more to do with the bank accounts that were linked to that PayPal account. I believe LE chose their words carefully when on one of the t.v. interviews they stated that they had not immediately seen anything in the Francisco accounts to cause concern, but that they had not yet obtained all of the records. I think, as was mentioned here yesterday by Beth E, that Nicholas may indeed have been directing money from either his employer or the church, or both, to an account that was somehow tied to his PayPal account. And perhaps Christine's comments regarding Nicholas' shielding her from all their debt that was discovered when viewing his PayPal account really meant that she had no idea that they owed so much that he needed to unlawfully obtain it from somewhere.

This would also fit as to why his employer hired a PI so early on....the next day after he disappeared if I remember correctly, and why they have continually given funds to increase the reward. Yes, I know he was a valuable and liked employee, but LE had barely started their investigation and a PI was brought in. That seems a little unusual to me. And if the church were involved, this would also fit as to why LE wanted to question Christine about their involvement with MH (which is what Christine said the day before that meeting with the detectives around 2/20 - 2/21), and would also explain why Christine was so adament that any link to anything relative to MH church be removed from those support threads on Etsy. This request was very puzzling because from what it appeared the church had been very supportive and had even organized searches in the beginning...very strange that any and all reference to the church needed to be removed.

I posted a few questions/comments on the ABC article the day his car was found, but I think they were lost in the drama that ensued there that same day. I know that LE stated that there were no obvious signs of foul play in the car, nor was there anything that indicated his whereabouts (again, I think they were carefully choosing the words they used). I think that even in the absence of fingerprints that there could be ways to tell if someone other than Nicholas had been in possession of the car between Wednesday and Monday. They could try and determine if the positioning of the seat and rearview mirror were consistant with someone of Nicholas' stature. Was the radio station on a familiar channel? Was it typical that Nicholas would leave the car unlocked? For some people it is, others not so much. Also, was the car unusually clean, or unusually messy? I don't mean clean of fingerprints, but clean of other things like papers, beverage containers, etc? I know if it were my husband's truck and if it were to be found devoid of loose change, soda cans, or remnants of a fast-food meal I would certainly *know* that someone else had been driving it. There was never any mention as to what LE found in the car, or what conclusions were drawn from it.....not by LE or in any other message boards that I could find.

I truly hope that Nicholas has not met with foul play, and I also do not believe that Christine had anything directly to do with his disappearance, but I do believe that there is a lot more known than is being let out to the public. The lack of any updates whatsoever, in any forum, by LE or friends/family is a telling indication of that.

Sorry for the long post. I've been lurking here for a couple of weeks, and then impatiently waiting for my ID here to be activated, and once I started writing it seems that I couldn't stop. Thanks for listening. :)

[dianaelaine]

Seattlematt:

Welcome ... and yeah, while you're out taking pictures, would ya stop by my son's apartment and BONK him on the head for me? :biggrin:

He's not called me in forever, and every time I call him, he's busy doing SOMETHING! :rolleyes:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Welcome aboard MC528 - new perspective and insight is always welcome :)

I would like to add this...thank you for bringing up the reference of Christine asking that any reference to the church be removed. I have looked and looked for that post but could not find it.

[mc528]

I would like to add this...thank you for bringing up the reference of Christine asking that any reference to the church be removed. I have looked and looked for that post but could not find it.

I know it was in one of the support threads....sometime after the 22nd. I'll see if I can find where that request was made.

[desmom]

Welcome MC528!

Appreciate the insight.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Beth
Mystery phobia, do you mean amongst the employees or just in general?

"Another thing that I have heard is that not much is being said about the disappearance at Publicis. Maybe the PI for Publicis did find something and the big wigs there no about it and that is why they aren't saying much. I don't know but I thought that was strange." [/*]

no.. lots of talk, speculation.. etc. amongst the employees. Just not alot of info outside of that. Not like in the beginning when everyone was working to find out what may have happened to him. They are still talking about it.. in there little groups but it was much more of an organized effort in the beginning. I am not saying that isn't going on... just saying that from some peoples perspective.. they aren't seeing it now.

[decor]

mc528

thanks for that perspective. I think the PP one was interesting and not something I had thought about before.

[Silver_Dove]

Originally posted by seattlematt


The posters are scattered all over the place. There is one still up (circa before there was a reward) on the corner by my apartment.

The weather in seattle is crazy... it's entirely possible they got wet, were blown off, or some drunk person ripped them down. [/*]

What a lot of people don't know is it is illegal to put flyers on telephone poles. They are taken down. Ones put on private property could also be taken down because one flyer/poster attracts more.

[desmom]

Originally posted by Beth
Here is an interview about N that i had not seen. It talks about LE and the fact that they have gone over his credit cards and some other financial information. Also touches on his cell phone and I still can't figure out whether it was a company issued phone or a phone he got through his company. Maybe somebody else will have better luck deciphering it.

http://foxnews1.a.mms.mavenapps.net/mms/rt/1/site/foxnews1-foxnews-pub01-live/current/launch.html?maven_playerId=videolandingpage&maven_referralParentPlaylistId=14dd8d0f134*75c8565 df1685e721eff8f003aac&maven_referralPlaylistId=*895e6943a20a5ba0d5beadb0 11*18*7ea0a1398&maven_referralObject=a7433ae9-1985-46ed-acf3-c6a2183361d1 [/*]

My attempt of transcribing from the above link

Matt, "Well Nick worked for Publicis and his phone was part of that account and so Christine's name is not on that account right now. It is just Nick's. I know the police are looking into what they need to do to try get those phone records but right now since he had that phone through work the last I heard we have not been able to get access to those records yet."

jmo

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


no.. lots of talk, speculation.. etc. amongst the employees. Just not alot of info outside of that. Not like in the beginning when everyone was working to find out what may have happened to him. They are still talking about it.. in there little groups but it was much more of an organized effort in the beginning. I am not saying that isn't going on... just saying that from some peoples perspective.. they aren't seeing it now. [/*]

We talked about the obligations of the PI - who was footing the bill and who would be told what. If I was Christine, I would take whatever money I could find and hire my own PI who would report to me directly.

[MystryPhobia]

Welcome mc528.

Very interesting, intelligent and thought provoking post.

Thanks.

And..cause it is getting ridiculous trying to post.. I will just add this in here..

If there was some criminal activity that Nicholas was involved in regarding his employer or church.. wouldn't there be a criminal investigation linked to that? There are no warrants for his arrest.

I do find it odd that Christine asked for the posts having to do with the church be taken down. What the heck is the deal with that church? Why did they resign as members? Could the church be, in ANYWAY, linked to his disappearance? I don't think it is just a coincidence that they were no longer members of that church as of two days before. What happened on that Sunday before that? If what I have read is correct.. that church is somewhat cultish in its beliefs. That worries me. Was Christine in favor of quitting the church? Was it all Nicholas' doing? Could they have done something to him or have his somewhere trying to do some kind of intervention because of it? Kinda off the wall but the whole church aspect is what is bothering me and now that she has asked that everything to do with it be taken down.. I am even more wondering...

[mc528]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I would like to add this...thank you for bringing up the reference of Christine asking that any reference to the church be removed. I have looked and looked for that post but could not find it. [/*]


I found it......it was on 2/20, in the Support thread #4. Last pst on page 9 in this link: http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5478831&page=9


fashiongreentbags says:
I'm waiting for a response from Christine but I'm going to close this thread and start thread 5 momentarily. She wants to have the link for the church taken out because her church is causing some problems.


Posted at 6:22 pm, February 20 2008 EST

[RainyNiteNTx]

IFFFFFFFFFFF Nicholas was in some type of trouble, he may have received some phone calls that day at work asking him to come in to talk about it and felt the walls were closing in. So IF he actually declared "I love you Bella" before he hung up with Christine that day, he knew he was leaving. I'm still holding out hope that he'll walk into a place of business and not know who he is - it has happened before.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by mc528



I found it......it was on 2/20, in the Support thread #4. Last pst on page 9 in this link: http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5478831&page=9


fashiongreentbags says:
I'm waiting for a response from Christine but I'm going to close this thread and start thread 5 momentarily. She wants to have the link for the church taken out because her church is causing some problems.


Posted at 6:22 pm, February 20 2008 EST [/*]

Thank you so much! I hope they weren't causing the kinds of problems we're discussing on here.

[RainyNiteNTx]

The part Christine asked to be removed is the part that says Church Link and it is an urgent message about Nicholas. You'll have to scroll down to see the link.

NEW FLIER:http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3113/2280537696_388d4d609d_*.jpg
Flickr-post the pic: http://www.flickr.com/groups/candle-of-support/
MONEY DONATION:
In state: Donate at WAMU to the Nicholas Francisco Family Fund
Out of state/country: paypal donations to:
bella [!at] bellastyleboutique.com (paypal user name)
Wire transfers to the bank account are very expensive. Paypal is much less and they will refund the fees to Christine as soon as she is able to call.
Christine Francisco's original thread:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5472516
Initial Help Thread: http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5472950&page=1
Updates: http://mailpen.net
News updates:
http://www.komotv.com/news/15682797.html
http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_021608WAB_missing_seatac_man_KS.cbc94803.html
Etsy donations: http://www.etsy.com/search_results.php?search_type=tag_title&search_query=christine+and+family
Church link: http://voxpopnetwork.com/westseattle/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/
Etsy Prayer Chain:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5476347
PROMO THREAD: PURCHASE from list or DONATE an item for Christine:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5476977
Etsy ANGELS PROMO THREAD:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5476325
Add yourself to the Sending Hope to Seattle Map
http://www.frappr.com/?a=constellation_map&mapid=137440361472
Request more prayers from here and get the word out even more:
http://www.prayerrequestsite.com/

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5477512&page=168
news report:
http://www.wikio.com/more/us/tragedy/missing_person/nicholas_francisco?start=0&count=15&sort=0
List of news sites:
http://www.wikio.com/us/tragedy/missing_person/nicholas_francisco
post your candle avatar:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/candle-of-support/
etsy support sales:
sewinggranny says:
Be sure to post your sales in this thread:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5477821&page=2
donation threads:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5476977
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5476325
holding hands in prayer , join here :
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5476347&page=26
Late interview video
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=4226712&cl=6516902&src=news
Posted at 5:46 pm, February 20 2008 EST

[desmom]

Originally posted by mc528



I found it......it was on 2/20, in the Support thread #4. Last pst on page 9 in this link: http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5478831&page=9


fashiongreentbags says:
I'm waiting for a response from Christine but I'm going to close this thread and start thread 5 momentarily. She wants to have the link for the church taken out because her church is causing some problems.


Posted at 6:22 pm, February 20 2008 EST [/*]

In the same post, it says Paypal is not going to refund the fees.
I only buy with my paypal account. What fees and how much is paypal's fees?

TIA

[Danette44]

Thank you Rainy! Maybe it's not for us to judge why she wanted them to be removed, but - come on, the more people searching the better chances of recovering something! Sometimes I wonder if she wants him to be found! And yes Beth E, if she is reading this board my question is- has LE asked you to take a polygraph??? :biggrin:

[mc528]

Originally posted by desmom


In the same post, it says Paypal is not going to refund the fees.
I only buy with my paypal account. What fees and how much is paypal's fees?

TIA [/*]

PayPal charges a fee to the recipient whenever you receive money. Depending on the type of PayPal account that you have, and how the payment was funded, those fees could be as much as close to 5%. It is likely that Christine had either a Premier or Business account, so her fees to receive payments would be about 2 - 3%. Here's the link to the PayPal fee chart:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees

[mc528]

Oops...try this link for PayPal instead.....the first one was from the secure side: (sorry)

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside

[desmom]

Originally posted by mc528


PayPal charges a fee to the recipient whenever you receive money. Depending on the type of PayPal account that you have, and how the payment was funded, those fees could be as much as close to 5%. It is likely that Christine had either a Premier or Business account, so her fees to receive payments would be about 2 - 3%. Here's the link to the PayPal fee chart:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees [/*]

Thanks. I found it.

[decor]

PP did refund the fees they charged her but I think it was only for the first 3 days. after that they said they would charge her.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Danette44
Thank you Rainy! Maybe it's not for us to judge why she wanted them to be removed, but - come on, the more people searching the better chances of recovering something! Sometimes I wonder if she wants him to be found! And yes Beth E, if she is reading this board my question is- has LE asked you to take a polygraph??? :biggrin: [/*]

No not our place to judge, but the church thing worries me. If whatever was going on was so bad that she requested what looked like a fervent prayer, sincere concern, requests to help the family, and search information was asked to be removed, I would like to know why. MH is a big church - more people - more exposure to help find Nicholas IMO.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
Good question.......hope she answers don't you? [/*]

Now Beth Engleman - do you really think she will answer that? lol