Nicholas Francisco 28, Seattle, 2-13-08 (car found)

[Danette44]

Great catch Rainey! I didn't even catch that - see them little remarks she makes is, what makes you stop and think! moo, I pray he is ok also and he returns home safe and sound.

[RainyNiteNTx]

In one of the blogs I read, it said that a coworker saw Nicholas leave the building, but did not actually see him GET to the car. It was also stated that Christine said he parks on the street. I know nothing about the area where he works. Is that normal? I know even in this small town where I live (100,000 people) you can't park on the street for more than an hour.

[Saltygal]

Ok....I'll jump in and ask the dumb question - which seems no one but me has... but the heck exactly is an "ETSY" store? From what I'm gathering.. it's on online "store" she has that offers handmade things that she has made? Is this correct?

Etsy is an online commerce site where people can easily open their own storefronts to sell handmade items.Their fees are low so they have attracted huge numbers of people hoping to make money. Etsy doesn't do much promotion , they try and foster a sense of "community "encouraging members to bring their own customers into the stores. They have message boards where various topics are discussed incluing one called ect which is stuff that has nothing to do with Etsy or business.
Some members have found that by posting sob stories in the forums people will feel sorry for them and visit their shops. As with any community, there is bad and good. Christine was a seller there. Some other crafters heard of her situation and began a vigil and fundraising campaign on her behalf. Other members thought it was a ploy to get business for themselves. What's happening there now has gotten way out of hand and is really an embarassment to the whole community.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Danette44


Nellie - I just can't see him putting his parents thru all this, after seeing his sisters yesterday on Fox news, I see they were really worried about him. So, if Etsy is the one that did all that do you think they are involved in it with them? [/*]

I actually agree with you on that. I don't think he's in on any kind of a scam. I've seen that theory being tossed around though. Like I said, there would be easier ways to scam an internet group that would not involved the news media.

No, I don't think Etsy is involved in anything other than trying to help out a member of the forum that she has set her support system up in. I've witnessed this type of thing before....more than once. Not saying that I know this in fact is what is going on in this case, but I've witnessed people manipulate a group into sending them money and goods without actually ASKING for it. They just let one or two members know what is going on in their lives, or come to the whole group and talk about their "bad luck" and it just starts to grow. This just reminds me so much of that. If she had never indicated that they so badly needed money, I'm not so sure money would have been sent to her Pay Pal. I just get turned off by this type of stuff, I'll admit it. But, I guess I'm more low-key about problems I may have in my life. I would probably not go to a group and let them know I needed money and give them my Pay Pal address.

I just don't think money would have been among my first thoughts.

[jtazzy]

Originally posted by Nellie


I'm really not sure the laptop was ever mentioned in news articles. It was Christina who told the Etsy crowd that when they found his car, his laptop and cell phone were missing. I found that interesting and have been wondering if it was ever reported in any news articles.

Well, if he did just take off and has his laptop....he may at some point get online.

He also had an etsy shop. Did you all know that?

And what is up with this headline about "international"...???? First I'd seen any hint of that even and it's not really mentioned in the following articles....only in the headline. Wierd, huh? Am I reading it wrong? I wasn't sure what to make of it.



http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_n8/idn2008.02.22.01.17.56.html [/*]

The link didn't work for me what did it say? just curious. I don't believe that this is a scam either, but it does make me curious on how fast the money donations started coming in. I have followed some cases and the donations to help the family ONLY came AFTER they found the body :shrug:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Saltygal


Etsy is an online commerce site where people can easily open their own storefronts to sell handmade items.Their fees are low so they have attracted huge numbers of people hoping to make money. Etsy doesn't do much promotion , they try and foster a sense of "community "encouraging members to bring their own customers into the stores. They have message boards where various topics are discussed incluing one called ect which is stuff that has nothing to do with Etsy or business.
Some members have found that by posting sob stories in the forums people will feel sorry for them and visit their shops. As with any community, there is bad and good. Christine was a seller there. Some other crafters heard of her situation and began a vigil and fundraising campaign on her behalf. Other members thought it was a ploy to get business for themselves. What's happening there now has gotten way out of hand and is really an embarassment to the whole community. [/*]

Thanks Saltygal - you explained it much better than I did.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Saltygal


Etsy is an online commerce site where people can easily open their own storefronts to sell handmade items.Their fees are low so they have attracted huge numbers of people hoping to make money. Etsy doesn't do much promotion , they try and foster a sense of "community "encouraging members to bring their own customers into the stores. They have message boards where various topics are discussed incluing one called ect which is stuff that has nothing to do with Etsy or business.
Some members have found that by posting sob stories in the forums people will feel sorry for them and visit their shops. As with any community, there is bad and good. Christine was a seller there. Some other crafters heard of her situation and began a vigil and fundraising campaign on her behalf. Other members thought it was a ploy to get business for themselves. What's happening there now has gotten way out of hand and is really an embarassment to the whole community. [/*]

Saltygal, I'm assuming you are a part of that community. Am I correct? If you are, can you tell me the story behind "Dawn's Boys"? I saw it mentioned on several of the threads.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by jtazzy


The link didn't work for me what did it say? just curious. I don't believe that this is a scam either, but it does make me curious on how fast the money donations started coming in. I have followed some cases and the donations to help the family ONLY came AFTER they found the body :shrug: [/*]

Oh, it was MY mistake. I thought it said "international flight" and it said "intentional threat". So, it seems that the police are torn between foul play or him taking off....it could go either way.

[jtazzy]

Originally posted by Nellie


Oh, it was MY mistake. I thought it said "international flight" and it said "intentional threat". So, it seems that the police are torn between foul play or him taking off....it could go either way. [/*]

Sad thing Nellie, is that statement is so true. I still think he took off. That is what I'm praying for.

I have the best husband in the whole world. He cooks, cleans and does the laundry if he isn't working:eek: . He (if he is up before me) will start the coffee........... but he has never brought me coffee in bed while taking care of the kids. The only time he has served something in bed is when I'm sick.

I'm not saying Nicholas didn't do this, and this might sound bad, but what I have read it sounds like she is a lot spoiled. Isn't she a stay at home mom. If so, why is he getting the kids feed, taking care of her before he goes to work. I guess I just don't understand that part.

I mean my heart goes out to the family. I really hope he did take off and he isn't dead somewhere. At the same time I say that I can't see him putting his mom and all through this.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Just came back from reading WS and there is a lot of chatter about him just leaving. Also lots of talk about the cry for money so soon.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by jtazzy


Sad thing Nellie, is that statement is so true. I still think he took off. That is what I'm praying for.

I have the best husband in the whole world. He cooks, cleans and does the laundry if he isn't working:eek: . He (if he is up before me) will start the coffee........... but he has never brought me coffee in bed while taking care of the kids. The only time he has served something in bed is when I'm sick.

I'm not saying Nicholas didn't do this, and this might sound bad, but what I have read it sounds like she is a lot spoiled. Isn't she a stay at home mom. If so, why is he getting the kids feed, taking care of her before he goes to work. I guess I just don't understand that part.

I mean my heart goes out to the family. I really hope he did take off and he isn't dead somewhere. At the same time I say that I can't see him putting his mom and all through this. [/*]

I know what you mean. But I watched Beth Smith put her parents through this, so I guess it does happen.

IMO, Christine has tried to paint a picture of a "perfect marriage/perfect husband". I don't believe in such a thing. I can believe in a "good marriage/good husband", but not a perfect one.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Just came back from reading WS and there is a lot of chatter about him just leaving. Also lots of talk about the cry for money so soon. [/*]

I've read several boards and I think the fund raising has alarmed people and made them feel "funny" about this case.

[desmom]

Originally posted by Nellie


--snipped--

IMO, Christine has tried to paint a picture of a "perfect marriage/perfect husband". I don't believe in such a thing. I can believe in a "good marriage/good husband", but not a perfect one. [/*]

Bingo!:beer:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


I've read several boards and I think the fund raising has alarmed people and made them feel "funny" about this case. [/*]

Just some thoughts....I would be willing to bet that the company Nicholas worked at would not immediately stop his paycheck. Maybe after a month, yes, but not the day he disappeared. It just seems premature to be asking for money or even endorsing the request for money so soon.

I really wish someone from the area was posting on this thread. I'd like to know if there were any tolls roads from his work to either his home or where his car was found and I'd like to know what type building he worked in. Was it a small little office where you park directly in front of the building or was it a high rise where you have to park in a parking garage?

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Just some thoughts....I would be willing to bet that the company Nicholas worked at would not immediately stop his paycheck. Maybe after a month, yes, but not the day he disappeared. It just seems premature to be asking for money or even endorsing the request for money so soon.

I really wish someone from the area was posting on this thread. I'd like to know if there were any tolls roads from his work to either his home or where his car was found and I'd like to know what type building he worked in. Was it a small little office where you park directly in front of the building or was it a high rise where you have to park in a parking garage? [/*]

I think it's the immediate appeal for money that makes this case so suspicious. Take it away and you don't have near the speculation. And, yes, letting people know you are in desperate need of money is an appeal for money. Why else say it?

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Nellie


This is his shop.

http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5591152

And it shows communication with a buyer on the very day he went missing.

Also, his wife left comments, but didn't act like she knew him. [/*]

Thank You Nellie!

[Saltygal]

Nellie asked...
I'm assuming you are a part of that community. Am I correct? If you are, can you tell me the story behind "Dawn's Boys"? I saw it mentioned on several of the threads.

Yes I'm a member, have been for over 2 years and I've seen the best and the worst play out in those forums.
Dawns story brought out the best in Etsians. , I didn't know her. She was a single mom and a Jewelry maker. She had been selling sucessfully on Ebay for years . Hurricane Katrina destroyed her home and studio. When she rebuilt her home and started up her business again she joined Etsy , she was already known by many in the crafting community . One day she took a motorbike ride with her boyfriend . They had an accident and she was killed leaving 2 small boys behind. Some of her friends posted about it in the forums and many sellers donated items for sale to put into a fund for the children. Dawns thread (http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5382731)

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Saltygal
Nellie asked...


Yes I'm a member, have been for over 2 years and I've seen the best and the worst play out in those forums.
Dawns story brought out the best in Etsians. , I didn't know her. She was a single mom and a Jewelry maker. She had been selling sucessfully on Ebay for years . Hurricane Katrina destroyed her home and studio. When she rebuilt her home and started up her business again she joined Etsy , she was already known by many in the crafting community . One day she took a motorbike ride with her boyfriend . They had an accident and she was killed leaving 2 small boys behind. Some of her friends posted about it in the forums and many sellers donated items for sale to put into a fund for the children. Dawns thread (http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5382731) [/*]

Thank you. I'll look at that link. I just saw it mentioned in some of the Christine threads and wasn't sure it had been a good thing. Glad to hear it was.

So, how do you feel about the fundraising going on for Christine?....if you feel free to comment. Do you have any reservations about it? I'm not meaning to sound cruel. I think to most outsiders it just seems so premature. It would have been more understandable to me if he had remained missing for a month or two. But a desperate plea for money immediately just raised red flags for me.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Saltygal
Nellie asked...


Yes I'm a member, have been for over 2 years and I've seen the best and the worst play out in those forums.
Dawns story brought out the best in Etsians. , I didn't know her. She was a single mom and a Jewelry maker. She had been selling sucessfully on Ebay for years . Hurricane Katrina destroyed her home and studio. When she rebuilt her home and started up her business again she joined Etsy , she was already known by many in the crafting community . One day she took a motorbike ride with her boyfriend . They had an accident and she was killed leaving 2 small boys behind. Some of her friends posted about it in the forums and many sellers donated items for sale to put into a fund for the children. Dawns thread (http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5382731) [/*]

Oh how horrible!! I, for one thank you for coming over here to explain a little about ETSY and what has transpired. The comments a lot of us have seen from ETSY members bordered on downright spooky. Thank you for showing us that we only saw a select few and it was not indicative of the whole organization.

[kaylynn]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Just came back from reading WS and there is a lot of chatter about him just leaving. Also lots of talk about the cry for money so soon. [/*]

What does WS stand for? Sorry, I'm bad with the computer lingo sometimes.

[desmom]

Originally posted by kaylynn


What does WS stand for? Sorry, I'm bad with the computer lingo sometimes. [/*]

WS = Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/index.php

Nicholas Francisco's thread is under Missing/Located Forum Discussion http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=60

[Saltygal]

Rainy,
Etsy is a cross section of society but I think the kooks are more vocal than the others and many of it's members are young, idealistic and easily taken advantage of .
There are lots of strange things about this,
Christine first asked for help on the forums( the day after he went missing ) Some other members, ones that didn't even know her picked up the ball and ran with in starting prayer vigils and soliciting donations. They also were posting new info and sites to check for updates. When they saw comments on the other sites; ABC News and WSblog they started defending Christine and all sorts of name calling. On the WSBlog someone who called herself Christine joined into the fray.
I think he ran away ( I hope he did , no serious crime, no violence) I think the police would say more if they thought he was the victim of a crime . I do know that if I was Christiine , I wouldn't let anyone speak for me, or ask for donations. On one of the threads, they were asking for gift cards to Kohls...
It sure has the apperance of impropriatry .

[kaylynn]

Originally posted by desmom


WS = Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/index.php

Nicholas Francisco's thread is under Missing/Located Forum Discussion http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=60 [/*]

Thank you:)

[Saltygal]

There is also the West Seattle Blog (http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5841#comment-116526) They have several posts but the one I linked has some very heated comments about the requests for money and speculation on what really happened. I like it because at first it was just people from Seattle posting and you could get a sense of the area and what their theories were.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Saltygal
There is also the West Seattle Blog (http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5841#comment-116526) They have several posts but the one I linked has some very heated comments about the requests for money and speculation on what really happened. I like it because at first it was just people from Seattle posting and you could get a sense of the area and what their theories were. [/*]

Hi Saltygal,

Some of us have been following that blog as well. They had all sorts of theories going on from Mars Hill to internet scams. One thing's for sure, this story has quieted down in the national media. I'm guessing that's because they are skeptical as well. IMO/JMO

[Saltygal]

Kim,
Sorry for my disjointed posts ( we're having a late dinner) I missed some of the recent discussion here. I Just noticed in a previous post that you had posted on the West Seattle Blog and thought your post was deleated. Check my link above, They have several different entries the one from the 19th has over 260 posts and is still going strong , maybe that is where your post is?

[Danette44]

Originally posted by Saltygal
There is also the West Seattle Blog (http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5841#comment-116526) They have several posts but the one I linked has some very heated comments about the requests for money and speculation on what really happened. I like it because at first it was just people from Seattle posting and you could get a sense of the area and what their theories were. [/*]

I believe it was Christine herself posting, the things she was saying made me think it was her and then she did a final posting saying she was leaving but, would still be reading just not posting. I found it strange her saying how she sits on the couch and not being able to function until the next TV appearance! JMOO

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Saltygal
Kim,
Sorry for my disjointed posts ( we're having a late dinner) I missed some of the recent discussion here. I Just noticed in a previous post that you had posted on the West Seattle Blog and thought your post was deleated. Check my link above, They have several different entries the one from the 19th has over 260 posts and is still going strong , maybe that is where your post is? [/*]

Saltygal,
Not to worry about re-posting a link, people are always looking for links. I will check your link and see if my comments are there. I know there are a lot of comments there and it would be easy to miss.

I hope Nicholas is found safe. I don't know him but on the surface he seems like a good man.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Saltygal
Rainy,
Etsy is a cross section of society but I think the kooks are more vocal than the others and many of it's members are young, idealistic and easily taken advantage of .
There are lots of strange things about this,
Christine first asked for help on the forums( the day after he went missing ) Some other members, ones that didn't even know her picked up the ball and ran with in starting prayer vigils and soliciting donations. They also were posting new info and sites to check for updates. When they saw comments on the other sites; ABC News and WSblog they started defending Christine and all sorts of name calling. On the WSBlog someone who called herself Christine joined into the fray.
I think he ran away ( I hope he did , no serious crime, no violence) I think the police would say more if they thought he was the victim of a crime . I do know that if I was Christiine , I wouldn't let anyone speak for me, or ask for donations. On one of the threads, they were asking for gift cards to Kohls...
It sure has the apperance of impropriatry . [/*]

Thank you for your input Salty. It appears that you feel the same way that we do...that the fund set up was premature. I think it would have been more appropriate if they had waited to find out what the real story is. If he just up and left, are they prepared to do the same thing for the other members who may go through a marriage breakup? I personally think he just left.....but don't dismiss the idea that something happened to him I just think they should have held off on the fundraising until more was known. It was too early. She should not have needed immediate funds except for a reward or such.

Like I said, I've witnessed this before and usually, like you said, a few just pick the ball up and run with it. Then the recipient will always claim they didn't ask for anything. If she felt like it was inappropriate for them to do this then she would be on there telling them to hold off and wait to see what is going on. She'd even close her Pay Pal account to get them to stop, if necessary. But she doesn't do that.....because she doesn't want the financial support to stop. She just continues to tell them what she needs. So, yes, she IS soliciting for funds, gift cards, etc. If it turns out he just ran off and comes back this week, how will these people feel? Will they feel duped? I've seen it before and people have been very hurt. It always amazes me to watch it and see how total strangers believe EVERYTHING a person says. Now C may be telling the total truth, but how do they know? They all just act like they just KNOW he's met foul play and he'd NEVER leave his family. How, do tell me, do they KNOW this? Fact is, they don't. And curses on anyone who might even hint that he may have just taken off.

All they really know at this point is that he's missing. Will I feel bad if he's met with foul play? Absolutely! I'm not heartless. But, I won't feel bad about how I feel about any online fundraising and the pre-mature nature of this one.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Danette44


I believe it was Christine herself posting, the things she was saying made me think it was her and then she did a final posting saying she was leaving but, would still be reading just not posting. I found it strange her saying how she sits on the couch and not being able to function until the next TV appearance! JMOO [/*]

I believe it was Christine posting also. IMO, she likes the attention.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I was just reading the comments on the Etsy thread they have for her and she is posting. She asked the name of the Texas search organization. Someone guessed at the name and thankfully it was correct - Texas Equusearch. Then C posted that it looked like they only did Texas searches. Of course there I was a lurker, definitely not welcome due to not being part of them and I was just about to go nuts. Someone reassured her that they thought they did go outside Texas. All I could think about was Tim Miller all over this country - anyway C finally posted she emailed the Director. Others have suggested a private investigator. It does seem she is struggling to think of ways to look for him. Hopefully some of that money will go as a donation to any search for Nicholas.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I was just reading the comments on the Etsy thread they have for her and she is posting. She asked the name of the Texas search organization. Someone guessed at the name and thankfully it was correct - Texas Equusearch. Then C posted that it looked like they only did Texas searches. Of course there I was a lurker, definitely not welcome due to not being part of them and I was just about to go nuts. Someone reassured her that they thought they did go outside Texas. All I could think about was Tim Miller all over this country - anyway C finally posted she emailed the Director. Others have suggested a private investigator. It does seem she is struggling to think of ways to look for him. Hopefully some of that money will go as a donation to any search for Nicholas. [/*]

I had read that his company had hired a private detective.

I also read in one thread over there that she had an appointment with a detective (LE) and they were encouraging her that maybe she should get a lawyer. She responded that she spoke to some attorneys and they didn't think she needed them. I just thought it was so odd that they were suggesting that she did.

Christine convo'd me and said that she spoke with a criminal lawyer and a family friend lawyer and neither believes she needs to have a lawyer with her. There are so many people at her house all of the time that the purpose of the meeting is for the 2 of them to have a quiet place to talk.

The thing I don't "get" is that it seems LE isn't doing much with this case. I'm not getting a feel for them thinking he met with foul play. I think there's much more they could be doing....like confiscating his computers and searching them. Computers could be a wealth of information and I think if a wife goes missing it is one of the first things they do. Why haven't they done that in this case?

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I was just reading the comments on the Etsy thread they have for her and she is posting. She asked the name of the Texas search organization. Someone guessed at the name and thankfully it was correct - Texas Equusearch. Then C posted that it looked like they only did Texas searches. Of course there I was a lurker, definitely not welcome due to not being part of them and I was just about to go nuts. Someone reassured her that they thought they did go outside Texas. All I could think about was Tim Miller all over this country - anyway C finally posted she emailed the Director. Others have suggested a private investigator. It does seem she is struggling to think of ways to look for him. Hopefully some of that money will go as a donation to any search for Nicholas. [/*]

That would be a good thing.
Honestly, though, if he just took off...I don't think he's even in the area any longer.

[Saltygal]

nelli said
The thing I don't "get" is that it seems LE isn't doing much with this case. I'm not getting a feel for them thinking he met with foul play. I think there's much more they could be doing....like confiscating his computers and searching them. Computers could be a wealth of information and I think if a wife goes missing it is one of the first things they do. Why haven't they done that in this case?

I think the police believe he went missing on his own. They won't give up information( to the public or the family) unless they have to. If they do suspect someone of wrong doing they don't want to tip them off .
They can't sieze the computers without probable cause . There have been no signs of foul play ( blood in the car , signs of a struggle) If she hires a PI that's one of the first things they'll look at .

[Brooke]

One question that keeps popping up for me is this:
Christine asks for help from some of her forum members the day after NF goes missing. Why in the world would she ask for help one day, not 24hrs after he went missing? It would seem to me someone would only ask for help if they knew their loved one was not returning soon. Wouldnt you think the average couple would have funds to make it at least a week without their spouse? Was her house bare of food? Was her utilities being shut off? I doubt it, but this is only MY OPINION.

[kaylynn]

Originally posted by Nellie


That would be a good thing.
Honestly, though, if he just took off...I don't think he's even in the area any longer. [/*]

I agree. The gas station, where he was potentially seen at, where was that? Like, how close was it to where he was last seen?

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Brooke
One question that keeps popping up for me is this:
Christine asks for help from some of her forum members the day after NF goes missing. Why in the world would she ask for help one day, not 24hrs after he went missing? It would seem to me someone would only ask for help if they knew their loved one was not returning soon. Wouldnt you think the average couple would have funds to make it at least a week without their spouse? Was her house bare of food? Was her utilities being shut off? I doubt it, but this is only MY OPINION. [/*]

That's the odd thing about this whole fundraising thing, isn't it?
It's almost like she knew he wouldn't be back or wouldn't be back soon and was already looking ahead to when the next mortgage payment or utilitity payments would be due. I just find it so odd to panic about the finances that fast. But she said she discovered something of their dire need by looking at his Pay Pal the night after he went missing. The ONLY thing I can think that his Pay Pal could show her to indicate she may be in for a long haul, would be if it showed that he had taken a large sum out of it...maybe emptied it out. If she'd see something like that, then she'd be suspicious that he'd taken off and then maybe panic about "how am I going to pay these bills by myself?". That's the ONLY thing I can figure out that his Pay Pal would show.

[SeattleEddie]

RainyNIte said: I really wish someone from the area was posting on this thread. I'd like to know if there were any tolls roads from his work to either his home or where his car was found and I'd like to know what type building he worked in. Was it a small little office where you park directly in front of the building or was it a high rise where you have to park in a parking garage?

There are no toll roads anywhere near Seattle. I don't know about the parking, but there aren't any high rise buildings in the part of town where he works.

I really don't get what the search parties are looking for. Do they expect to actually find him, or find people who've seen him? If he took off on his own, he certainly isn't having breakfast at the local diner. Are the searchers looking for a body? Or are they searching just to be doing something ??

[Nellie]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie


There are no toll roads anywhere near Seattle. I don't know about the parking, but there aren't any high rise buildings in the part of town where he works.

I really don't get what the search parties are looking for. Do they expect to actually find him, or find people who've seen him? If he took off on his own, he certainly isn't having breakfast at the local diner. Are the searchers looking for a body? Or are they searching just to be doing something ?? [/*]

Good question. I guess they are searching for any sign of him...maybe his missing cell phone or his missing laptop....or, as you say, his body. But they don't come out and say there is any indication of foul play, so I'm like you.....what is there to search for? I guess, though, if you're family and you don't believe he just took off, then you search in the areas you knew he or his car were and I guess you'd be looking for his body. What else? Confusing, isn't it? I'm with you...if he took off...he isn't around there anymore. Is it the family or LE organizing the searches? I am thinking it is the family.

[SeattleEddie]

Another thing - my impression is that there are serious control issues. The wife calls her husband "throughout the day" while he's at work, and also expects to be notified if he's going to be 15 minutes late?

She goes on blogs chastising people for speculating about what may have happened to her husband, as if she could control what people say online. I've seen this on three different sites. It seems she surfs the net many hours a day to see what people may be saying about her and husband.

And the constant illusionary references about how much he loves us, he is so excited about the baby, he would never do this, etc etc. I actually heard her say on one interview that he was "excited" to be coming home from work!!!???

[SeattleEddie]

Finally, I think we can never know with absolute certainty what is in the heart of another.

So I tend to think he left on his own. But I can't reconcile the pain he left for his children or his mother and sisters, even if he did wish to escape the marriage.

I thought it was interesting that his mother said something like: "he wouldn't hurt me or his sisters, or, you know, the wife, the children... " Anybody else catch that interesting choice of words?

[kaylynn]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie
Another thing - my impression is that there are serious control issues. The wife calls her husband "throughout the day" while he's at work, and also expects to be notified if he's going to be 15 minutes late?

She goes on blogs chastising people for speculating about what may have happened to her husband, as if she could control what people say online. I've seen this on three different sites. It seems she surfs the net many hours a day to see what people may be saying about her and husband.

And the constant illusionary references about how much he loves us, he is so excited about the baby, he would never do this, etc etc. I actually heard her say on one interview that he was "excited" to be coming home from work!!!??? [/*]

Welcome to the boards SeattleEddie! Glad to have you!:)
That's a really good point, I've noticed that as well. I wonder if he left to kind of escape from it all for awhile. The thing that gets me though, is that he looks like such a family man from the pictures. I'm not 100% convinced yet that he would leave his 2 children, and his pregnant wife. It seems to me like his children meant a lot to him. But, I completely agree with you about the control issues. It does seem like Christine is spending an awful lot of time online reading through everything.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie


There are no toll roads anywhere near Seattle. I don't know about the parking, but there aren't any high rise buildings in the part of town where he works.

I really don't get what the search parties are looking for. Do they expect to actually find him, or find people who've seen him? If he took off on his own, he certainly isn't having breakfast at the local diner. Are the searchers looking for a body? Or are they searching just to be doing something ?? [/*]

I'm glad you joined us Eddie. Thank you for the information about the toll roads and the place of business.

I would just assume they would be looking for possibly his cell phone or his laptop. Possibly looking through those storage units that someone reported seeing him around (that could be somebody mistaken about seeing him).

One more question - is the area he worked a high crime area?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie
Another thing - my impression is that there are serious control issues. The wife calls her husband "throughout the day" while he's at work, and also expects to be notified if he's going to be 15 minutes late?

She goes on blogs chastising people for speculating about what may have happened to her husband, as if she could control what people say online. I've seen this on three different sites. It seems she surfs the net many hours a day to see what people may be saying about her and husband.

And the constant illusionary references about how much he loves us, he is so excited about the baby, he would never do this, etc etc. I actually heard her say on one interview that he was "excited" to be coming home from work!!!??? [/*]

I've found the entire perfect life together intriguing. Its almost like it is a made for TV movie. From what she herself has said, he would bring her coffee in bed (his profile on his ETSY says he doesn't like coffee himself), get the children breakfast, play with them, go to work, stop by the store on the way home, etc. I just feel sorry for him - he is so young with so much responsibility and "honey dos". I hope he is safe and warm and just needs time to think.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


That's the odd thing about this whole fundraising thing, isn't it?
It's almost like she knew he wouldn't be back or wouldn't be back soon and was already looking ahead to when the next mortgage payment or utilitity payments would be due. I just find it so odd to panic about the finances that fast. But she said she discovered something of their dire need by looking at his Pay Pal the night after he went missing. The ONLY thing I can think that his Pay Pal could show her to indicate she may be in for a long haul, would be if it showed that he had taken a large sum out of it...maybe emptied it out. If she'd see something like that, then she'd be suspicious that he'd taken off and then maybe panic about "how am I going to pay these bills by myself?". That's the ONLY thing I can figure out that his Pay Pal would show. [/*]

Yes - that is the only thing that would make sense because she would have no way to know if he would be back in a few hours, a few days, a few months or never.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I don't know if this has been posted (probably has), but it gives the latest and greatest of search information....they are now asking people if they have ever received email from Nicholas

http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com/

[RainyNiteNTx]

Aargh it wouldn't let me edit my post - I just wanted to add that if his laptop computer is a work computer, there would be dozens of people he had emailed - I'm lost on this request. Can anyone make sense of it?

[elf]

I have been following this case since it was on national news (Greta/Grace) I agree it is hinkey.
Last night I was watching the etsy board Christine was on she posted twice then a lady posted immediatly stating she had sent two presents to the kids. Christine never posted back a Thank You. I have not checked all the etsys threads but I have checked a few and have yet to see a post from Christine thanking anyone for all they are doing. Strange.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by elf
I have been following this case since it was on national news (Greta/Grace) I agree it is hinkey.
Last night I was watching the etsy board Christine was on she posted twice then a lady posted immediatly stating she had sent two presents to the kids. Christine never posted back a Thank You. I have not checked all the etsys threads but I have checked a few and have yet to see a post from Christine thanking anyone for all they are doing. Strange. [/*]

I think early on there was a thank you message, which included the statement that her sweet husband must have been shielding her from their bad financial situation and she discovered it the night before when she checked his Pay Pal account. So she thanked them for all they were doing because it was so desperately needed. So, while it was a thank you...it was also a way of letting them know she was in dire need. She said she woke up to Pay Pal notifications. (This is of course not word for word...but the best I can remember it).

[soyesterday]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I don't know if this has been posted (probably has), but it gives the latest and greatest of search information....they are now asking people if they have ever received email from Nicholas

http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com/ [/*]


I noticed from that link that someone is saying that missing posters are missing...
Could that just be wind or something....or someone doing it on purpose?
And if someone is doing that on purpose, do you think it's just someone being nasty OR do you think it could be someone that doesn't WANT him to be found?

[Nellie]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie
Another thing - my impression is that there are serious control issues. The wife calls her husband "throughout the day" while he's at work, and also expects to be notified if he's going to be 15 minutes late?

She goes on blogs chastising people for speculating about what may have happened to her husband, as if she could control what people say online. I've seen this on three different sites. It seems she surfs the net many hours a day to see what people may be saying about her and husband.

And the constant illusionary references about how much he loves us, he is so excited about the baby, he would never do this, etc etc. I actually heard her say on one interview that he was "excited" to be coming home from work!!!??? [/*]

She's definately painted a "perfect picture" with her being queen that is served coffee in bed every day. When things are painted as "perfect", I never buy it. But, you're right....she may have been the one in control. I even found it a little odd that it was him that was going to bake cookies with the little girl. Maybe that's sexist of me and I know daddies do things like that, but....

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by elf
I have been following this case since it was on national news (Greta/Grace) I agree it is hinkey.
Last night I was watching the etsy board Christine was on she posted twice then a lady posted immediatly stating she had sent two presents to the kids. Christine never posted back a Thank You. I have not checked all the etsys threads but I have checked a few and have yet to see a post from Christine thanking anyone for all they are doing. Strange. [/*]

Hey Elf - I've been watching the etsy board also. It seems like she feels she has a sense of entitlement. I noticed in addition to the money being put in her paypal account that someone is holding an ebay auction for her.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


She's definately painted a "perfect picture" with her being queen that is served coffee in bed every day. When things are painted as "perfect", I never buy it. But, you're right....she may have been the one in control. I even found it a little odd that it was him that was going to bake cookies with the little girl. Maybe that's sexist of me and I know daddies do things like that, but.... [/*]

I don't understand why Mommy and child didn't bake cookies for HIM. She is the one home all day. The guy gets off work after 6:00 pm, has a commute home, has to stop at the grocery store for sugar so they must be homemade cookies, (not the kind you break off and pop in the oven). When is he supposed to eat dinner and relax? I do not believe this perfect life she has painted exists - I believe it is a fantasy she created.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by soyesterday



I noticed from that link that someone is saying that missing posters are missing...
Could that just be wind or something....or someone doing it on purpose?
And if someone is doing that on purpose, do you think it's just someone being nasty OR do you think it could be someone that doesn't WANT him to be found? [/*]

I saw that but wasn't sure of the area from where they were missing. Was it close to where his car was found?

[RainyNiteNTx]

ohhhhhhhhhhhh I just went back and read carefully about the missing posters - they are missing in the area where his car would have been parked and the surrounding blocks. (I guess they mean parked at work)

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Amaryllis
What if she needs all this money to pay off a hitman?:shrug:

I really do hope he did run off. I hate to think of him lying somewhere dead. He has/had such beautiful children.

I just feel there is more to this then meets the eye.....hinky. [/*]


Good Morning Amaryllis and Everyone :seeya:

Now there's a new angle! Pay off a hitman. In this world, anything is possible.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by soyesterday



I noticed from that link that someone is saying that missing posters are missing...
Could that just be wind or something....or someone doing it on purpose?
And if someone is doing that on purpose, do you think it's just someone being nasty OR do you think it could be someone that doesn't WANT him to be found? [/*]


In the Jaliek Rainwalker case, posters for a vigil were taken down. They were taken down by his adoptive father, who is now the POI.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I don't understand why Mommy and child didn't bake cookies for HIM. She is the one home all day. The guy gets off work after 6:00 pm, has a commute home, has to stop at the grocery store for sugar so they must be homemade cookies, (not the kind you break off and pop in the oven). When is he supposed to eat dinner and relax? I do not believe this perfect life she has painted exists - I believe it is a fantasy she created. [/*]


Good point! She's home all day ...couldn't she go get her own sugar? I have 2 kid and a full time job outside of the house and I still manage to get my groceries. I just can't imagine all that I would get done in a day if all I had to do was stay home. Don't get me wrong, I know staying home with kids is hard work but there is much more free time.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Aargh it wouldn't let me edit my post - I just wanted to add that if his laptop computer is a work computer, there would be dozens of people he had emailed - I'm lost on this request. Can anyone make sense of it? [/*]

At first I thought they were trying to determine if his laptop was used AFTER he went missing. But after re-reading that, I'm not so sure. There is one customer at Etsy that he had contact with on the day he went missing. It leaves me to wonder if he was emailing with her at work or if it was after work. And then that leaves me to wonder if his work computer has been checked at all. Or, was the laptop his work computer?

Hi there. I'm a member of etsy and we're thinking that this might be Nicholas' shop: Hi there. I'm a member of etsy and we're thinking that this might be Nicholas' shop:

http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5591152

If so, he made a sale on February 13 and maybe whoever he made the sale to had some contact with him that day.

Then the customer left a message saying she had already been in contact with Christine and the authorities after she found out on the 20th that he was missing.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
There are hundreds even thousands of people who have gone missing in the US and around the world every year.

WHY is there so much attention paid to this case when there are so many missing persons that NEED to be found. Where there is strong evidence of foul play.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this man has been the victim of foul play and in need of finding.

People can and do decide to leave a spouse or a relationship everyday..... and they don't always say where they are going and how they can be contacted.

A serious financial situation with a baby on the way has been the cause of many people leaving a situation when they can no longer handle it.

Does this mean that people should forget about this guy and not look for him, certainly not. Just keep this in mind when allocating resources and time spent searching in this case. [/*]

Hey Beth - aren't you the intuitive/psychic type person? If so, what are your thoughts ont his?

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
There are hundreds even thousands of people who have gone missing in the US and around the world every year.

WHY is there so much attention paid to this case when there are so many missing persons that NEED to be found. Where there is strong evidence of foul play.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this man has been the victim of foul play and in need of finding.

People can and do decide to leave a spouse or a relationship everyday..... and they don't always say where they are going and how they can be contacted.

A serious financial situation with a baby on the way has been the cause of many people leaving a situation when they can no longer handle it.

Does this mean that people should forget about this guy and not look for him, certainly not. Just keep this in mind when allocating resources and time spent searching in this case. [/*]

I think the interest was generated by the Etsy group. They emailed all major tv networks...Greta, Nancy, AMW, etc. and bombarded them with requests to cover thsi story. That's when the national news picked it up.

Personally, for myself, I just follow a mystery.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


I think the interest was generated by the Etsy group. They emailed all major tv networks...Greta, Nancy, AMW, etc. and bombarded them with requests to cover thsi story. That's when the national news picked it up.

Personally, for myself, I just follow a mystery. [/*]

Same here - I cannot find any news on this at all anymore.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Same here - I cannot find any news on this at all anymore. [/*]

It will be interesting to see if Nancy and/or Greta have anything on this story tonight.

[Nellie]

On the Donovan Family blog (his friends that traveled from CO to be with her), it is stated that Nicholas was stopping at Safeway on the way home.....instead of Costco. Now, maybe she just said it wrong on the blog, but it's a curious thing. It was posted the day after he went missing. It makes me wonder if she told them Safeway or if they just got it wrong.

One of Matt's best friends from high school has gone missing. His wife called me today very worried because he didn't come home last night and hasn't since. He was last seen leaving work at 6:10 pm yesterday and was headed to Safeway. They leave in SeaTac Washington, outside of Seattle, his work is in Seattle. The SeaTac police are involved and there are many people searching for him. We feel helpless, but the only thing she asked is that we pray and get as many people to pray as possible. We are all very worried and heartbroken. Here is some info on them:

http://thedonovanfamily.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-02-19T00%3A59%3A00-07%3A00

[Danette44]

Originally posted by huskiki


It will be interesting to see if Nancy and/or Greta have anything on this story tonight. [/*]

I can't wait for them tonight either huskiki, I went back to read on the West Seattle Blog, and notice that the web admin also made a comment to Christine about others having a right to voice their opinon's! Christine trys to tell people her husband would never do this or that and no one knew him like her - well it's apparent that she didn't know him well enough if he could hide his "PAYPAL" account from her and, leave them broke! To where she is begging for money and Target, Khols cards....come on! JMOO

[Danette44]

Originally posted by Nellie
On the Donovan Family blog (his friends that traveled from CO to be with her), it is stated that Nicholas was stopping at Safeway on the way home.....instead of Costco. Now, maybe she just said it wrong on the blog, but it's a curious thing. It was posted the day after he went missing. It makes me wonder if she told them Safeway or if they just got it wrong.



http://thedonovanfamily.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-02-19T00%3A59%3A00-07%3A00 [/*]

I read that also Nellie - this whole story is so confusing - and is it just me or does she seem like she knows he isn't going to be found? I hate to say what my thoughts were about them posters being missing! :eek:

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Danette44


I read that also Nellie - this whole story is so confusing - and is it just me or does she seem like she knows he isn't going to be found? I hate to say what my thoughts were about them posters being missing! :eek: [/*]

Her actions sure seem to make it appear that she doesn't expect him to come home. The immediate need for money and her insistance that he has met with foul play just doesn't set right with me. You would almost think she'd want to think he just took off rather than met with foul play because that would at least mean he's safe.

Her interview about the car bothered me...she was so sarcastic when she said, "Just look at his car...it wasn't anything special". It was almost condescending to me and she said it with real attitude. She seems to thrive on letting everyone know they were not well off. Does she see that as him not being successful? Did she want better? I have no idea....just questions that go through my mind. He could bring her coffee in bed, but could not provide nicer things for them. Did she want nicer things?

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Danette44


I can't wait for them tonight either huskiki, I went back to read on the West Seattle Blog, and notice that the web admin also made a comment to Christine about others having a right to voice their opinon's! Christine trys to tell people her husband would never do this or that and no one knew him like her - well it's apparent that she didn't know him well enough if he could hide his "PAYPAL" account from her and, leave them broke! To where she is begging for money and Target, Khols cards....come on! JMOO [/*]

I read that comment too! If she's getting so upset over the comments that are being made about her and him then maybe she should get of the internet. She can't function, can't take care of her kids but she can read forums and make comments defending herself.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by Nellie


Her actions sure seem to make it appear that she doesn't expect him to come home. The immediate need for money and her insistance that he has met with foul play just doesn't set right with me. You would almost think she'd want to think he just took off rather than met with foul play because that would at least mean he's safe.

Her interview about the car bothered me...she was so sarcastic when she said, "Just look at his car...it wasn't anything special". It was almost condescending to me and she said it with real attitude. She seems to thrive on letting everyone know they were not well off. Does she see that as him not being successful? Did she want better? I have no idea....just questions that go through my mind. He could bring her coffee in bed, but could not provide nicer things for them. Did she want nicer things? [/*]

Heck Nellie - she sure didn't live in a shack or barn, thats a pretty nice home she has there, and it seems she has a nice car also. I wish the LE would polygraph her and take her computers from her and check them out! We need to write the LE in Seatlle like we did in the Drew Peterson case ( which by the way is getting good )! Will check in after lunch I'm at work.have a great morning :)

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Danette44


I can't wait for them tonight either huskiki, I went back to read on the West Seattle Blog, and notice that the web admin also made a comment to Christine about others having a right to voice their opinon's! Christine trys to tell people her husband would never do this or that and no one knew him like her - well it's apparent that she didn't know him well enough if he could hide his "PAYPAL" account from her and, leave them broke! To where she is begging for money and Target, Khols cards....come on! JMOO [/*]

Very good point!

[carterkatt]

Originally posted by Nellie
On the Donovan Family blog (his friends that traveled from CO to be with her), it is stated that Nicholas was stopping at Safeway on the way home.....instead of Costco. Now, maybe she just said it wrong on the blog, but it's a curious thing. It was posted the day after he went missing. It makes me wonder if she told them Safeway or if they just got it wrong.

http://thedonovanfamily.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-02-19T00%3A59%3A00-07%3A00 [/*]

I'm not very familiar with Costco. Isn't it like Sam's Club? I may be wrong. I wondered WHY would someone go to a huge store like that for sugar. Wouldn't it be a whole lot quicker to run into a grocery store?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by carterkatt


I'm not very familiar with Costco. Isn't it like Sam's Club? I may be wrong. I wondered WHY would someone go to a huge store like that for sugar. Wouldn't it be a whole lot quicker to run into a grocery store? [/*]

From my understanding, it is like a Sams. Someone on the WS board said they were in Costco and the smallest amount of sugar you could buy was a 20 lb. bag.

[SeattleEddie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx

One more question - is the area he worked a high crime area? [/*]

Thanks for the nice welcome, RainyNite and kaylynn. The area of his work is definitely not a high crime area, and it's not close to a high crime area. If you happen to know the address handy (I haven't been following the case that closely) I can get the crime stats for that area code. Maybe later I will search for the address, if it was ever reported.

About the computer, it may be that they are seeking its IP address for some reason. But I would think the wife has some messages on her home computer from her husband?

About the posters that have gone missing, it's been nice and sunny and not windy here in Seattle for the last week or so.

A thought I had about the etsy transaction on her husband's account after he went missing: it's possible she was responding to messages on his etsy account, which is why there was a transaction after his disappearance. Or maybe that's why LE is seeking his IP address, to see if he responded to this person from his work computer.

[SeattleEddie]

Originally posted by Nellie


...... You would almost think she'd want to think he just took off rather than met with foul play because that would at least mean he's safe.

Her interview about the car bothered me...she was so sarcastic when she said, "Just look at his car...it wasn't anything special". It was almost condescending to me and she said it with real attitude. She seems to thrive on letting everyone know they were not well off. Does she see that as him not being successful? Did she want better? <snip> Did she want nicer things? [/*]

These are great points and very observant. I hadn't thought of these angles. That she perceives him as unable to provide adequately (or in the style to which she is accustomed) for the family, while she is pregnant with #3 would be a HUGE burden on him.

[desmom]

I am not familiar with the area. News reports said he worked for Publicis West in the Lower Queen Anne area.

Is this his employer?

http://www.publiciswest.com/

[Breazy]

Hello to all!!

I haven't posted here but have been following . . . what a strange case indeed. First of all, something is definitely "OFF" with the info we know. I'm leaning towards he just skipped out. Seems to contradict the "perfect family" that has been portrayed. I cannot get over the reports of him getting up every morning with the children, fixing their breakfast, bringing her coffee in bed. What was she doing to deserve this? He was the one going out every morning to work. She should have been the one up fixing breakfast. How is he able to even get ready for work? And why is she laying in bed drinking coffee when he is trying to get off to work? If this info is all true, I want a husband like that!!;) Another thing, I worked in Advertising for 20 years and there is a great deal of pressure associated with that business. The constant deadlines and pressure associated with pleasing the client, getting results, etc. is why I changed careers a few years back. If I was Christine, I would have been trying to make things easier for him at home. If he did just take off, I can't say I blame him.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie


Thanks for the nice welcome, RainyNite and kaylynn. The area of his work is definitely not a high crime area, and it's not close to a high crime area. If you happen to know the address handy (I haven't been following the case that closely) I can get the crime stats for that area code. Maybe later I will search for the address, if it was ever reported.

About the computer, it may be that they are seeking its IP address for some reason. But I would think the wife has some messages on her home computer from her husband?

About the posters that have gone missing, it's been nice and sunny and not windy here in Seattle for the last week or so.

A thought I had about the etsy transaction on her husband's account after he went missing: it's possible she was responding to messages on his etsy account, which is why there was a transaction after his disappearance. Or maybe that's why LE is seeking his IP address, to see if he responded to this person from his work computer. [/*]

If it is a work computer, his company should have a list of IP addresses that are issued to their employees. I guess we need to find out if this is a business or personal laptop.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Breazy
Hello to all!!

I haven't posted here but have been following . . . what a strange case indeed. First of all, something is definitely "OFF" with the info we know. I'm leaning towards he just skipped out. Seems to contradict the "perfect family" that has been portrayed. I cannot get over the reports of him getting up every morning with the children, fixing their breakfast, bringing her coffee in bed. What was she doing to deserve this? He was the one going out every morning to work. She should have been the one up fixing breakfast. How is he able to even get ready for work? And why is she laying in bed drinking coffee when he is trying to get off to work? If this info is all true, I want a husband like that!!;) Another thing, I worked in Advertising for 20 years and there is a great deal of pressure associated with that business. The constant deadlines and pressure associated with pleasing the client, getting results, etc. is why I changed careers a few years back. If I was Christine, I would have been trying to make things easier for him at home. If he did just take off, I can't say I blame him. [/*]

I am in complete agreement with your post. It just seems like to me he did more than his fair share. I saw in one report he worked during the day and freelanced at night. Add to that the care for the children while he was home, stopping at the grocery store after a long day - I just want to give him a hug.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by desmom
I am not familiar with the area. News reports said he worked for Publicis West in the Lower Queen Anne area.

Is this his employer?

http://www.publiciswest.com/ [/*]

Yes desmom.. that is his emplorer and where he was last seen leaving from. He was suppose to go to a Safeway and then the to the South Center Costco.. has anyone heard if there is footage of him in either of those places? Plus we have lots of traffic cams.. I wonder if they can go back and look at those. Federal Way is to the south of Seattle and South Center. He almost would have HAD to get on I-5 to get that far. I don't know if those cameras record or just take live shots but I would think that enough news stations and businesses are linked to them that there might be footage from around that time.

[desmom]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Yes desmom.. that is his emplorer and where he was last seen leaving from. He was suppose to go to a Safeway and then the to the South Center Costco.. has anyone heard if there is footage of him in either of those places? Plus we have lots of traffic cams.. I wonder if they can go back and look at those. Federal Way is to the south of Seattle and South Center. He almost would have HAD to get on I-5 to get that far. I don't know if those cameras record or just take live shots but I would think that enough news stations and businesses are linked to them that there might be footage from around that time. [/*]


Thank you!

I know I read somewhere the Costco membership card was not used. I think it was a post by his wife, Christine.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Breazy
Hello to all!!

I haven't posted here but have been following . . . what a strange case indeed. First of all, something is definitely "OFF" with the info we know. I'm leaning towards he just skipped out. Seems to contradict the "perfect family" that has been portrayed. I cannot get over the reports of him getting up every morning with the children, fixing their breakfast, bringing her coffee in bed. What was she doing to deserve this? He was the one going out every morning to work. She should have been the one up fixing breakfast. How is he able to even get ready for work? And why is she laying in bed drinking coffee when he is trying to get off to work? If this info is all true, I want a husband like that!!;) Another thing, I worked in Advertising for 20 years and there is a great deal of pressure associated with that business. The constant deadlines and pressure associated with pleasing the client, getting results, etc. is why I changed careers a few years back. If I was Christine, I would have been trying to make things easier for him at home. If he did just take off, I can't say I blame him. [/*]

I agree. When I heard about him getting the kids up and dressed and serving her coffee in bed EVERY morning, she made me think she might have a "queen/princess complex". I'd take off too if that's the case! Who expects their husband to do that before he goes to work every morning?

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Nellie


I agree. When I heard about him getting the kids up and dressed and serving her coffee in bed EVERY morning, she made me think she might have a "queen/princess complex". I'd take off too if that's the case! Who expects their husband to do that before he goes to work every morning? [/*]

I don't really understand any of the posts regarding this. So what if he brought her coffee or food to bed. Maybe that is just how he was. MAYBE HE WANTED TO. Maybe he didn't sit back with his checklist of what has she done for me lately and just enjoyed taking care of his pregnant wife.. the mother of his children. I don't see how this is proof of one thing except that he was a good husband and man. Maybe that is all she is trying to get across.

Sorry for the rant but it seems ridiculous to sit and judge someone based on something like that. I happen to know someone that knows Nicholas and Christine. This is how he was.. not just to his wife but to all the people in his life.

Anyway.. I found this message left by Christine on Saturday.. thought it was interesting...

I can’t believe that on a church blog you all would be speculating that my husband just ran off on me. what kind of people are you? what kind of christians are you? My husband did not run off one me. I have never asked for money. People have asked me out right, including media, about our finances and I answer with the truth. So who are you to jump to conclusions. I am dieing inside, this whole thing is killing me and you who don’t know us and post on a church website are making assumptions and accusations that have no grounds for. what kind of Christian does that? I came and read on this blog hopeing for a little more uplifting thoughts and prayer and here i am being attacked. How cruel.

http://voxpopnetwork.com/westseattle/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/

[Danette44]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie


Thanks for the nice welcome, RainyNite and kaylynn. The area of his work is definitely not a high crime area, and it's not close to a high crime area. If you happen to know the address handy (I haven't been following the case that closely) I can get the crime stats for that area code. Maybe later I will search for the address, if it was ever reported.

About the computer, it may be that they are seeking its IP address for some reason. But I would think the wife has some messages on her home computer from her husband?

About the posters that have gone missing, it's been nice and sunny and not windy here in Seattle for the last week or so.

A thought I had about the etsy transaction on her husband's account after he went missing: it's possible she was responding to messages on his etsy account, which is why there was a transaction after his disappearance. Or maybe that's why LE is seeking his IP address, to see if he responded to this person from his work computer. [/*]

Hi SeattleEddie - welcome to the boards, I didn't know their was a transaction after he went missing. I thought they were talking about he made a sell the day of his disappearence? That person he last talk to on his site told the etsy board that she didn't realize he was missing til the 20th and that she had contacted Christine and the LE. I sure hope she didn't depend on Christine to relay the message to LE. I agree that Christine has either heard from him or she knows where he is. I feel those posters were taken down on purpose - who would be that mean to take them down if they didn't know who he was? I just don't feel it's a scam - I think he either met someone online or he just walked away. I really hope that LE is checking into all these donations also. moo

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


I don't really understand any of the posts regarding this. So what if he brought her coffee or food to bed. Maybe that is just how he was. MAYBE HE WANTED TO. Maybe he didn't sit back with his checklist of what has she done for me lately and just enjoyed taking care of his pregnant wife.. the mother of his children. I don't see how this is proof of one thing except that he was a good husband and man. Maybe that is all she is trying to get across.

Sorry for the rant but it seems ridiculous to sit and judge someone based on something like that. I happen to know someone that knows Nicholas and Christine. This is how he was.. not just to his wife but to all the people in his life.

Anyway.. I found this message left by Christine on Saturday.. thought it was interesting...

I can’t believe that on a church blog you all would be speculating that my husband just ran off on me. what kind of people are you? what kind of christians are you? My husband did not run off one me. I have never asked for money. People have asked me out right, including media, about our finances and I answer with the truth. So who are you to jump to conclusions. I am dieing inside, this whole thing is killing me and you who don’t know us and post on a church website are making assumptions and accusations that have no grounds for. what kind of Christian does that? I came and read on this blog hopeing for a little more uplifting thoughts and prayer and here i am being attacked. How cruel.

http://voxpopnetwork.com/westseattle/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/ [/*]

I guess I just think for most of us it sounds unrealistic.
Furthermore, I'd feel guilty if I laid in bed every morning while my husband gets up and gets the kids dressed and fed and brings me coffee in bed....before he heads off to work! I guess I just couldn't do that every morning.

I think it's legitimate that most people find it odd.

Yeah, I saw that message she left. I thought she has been unable to function.

I think Christine has made herself suspicious by her immediate plea for money and posting on so many different internet boards. She even mentioned her make-up after one of the tv interviews...like she was worried about how she looked. I had no suspicions of her before that. IMO, it would be wise of her to close down the Pay Pal account and fund at the bank. It makes her look bad.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
I find it interesting and a little strange that anyone with two children, a pregnant wife and working so far away from home WOULD EVER allow their cell phone to die from not being charged. Also, he worked in a demanding profession where employers need to contact their employees. People who use their phone this much should know to always carry the phone charger with them. If he could manage to take his lap top with him, why not the charger which would fit nicely in the case. Not having a cell phone could become very serious if he were needed in an emergency or if he needed to call for help.

It seems unlikely that such a devoted husband and father would be this irresponsible. Unless, it was staged as an excuse to lose contact with those needing to reach him. People turn their phones off when they don't want to be disturbed or traced.

Loosing contact with him BEFORE he disappeared instead of after, certainly is a mystery. [/*]

I questioned the exact same thing, funny how he disappears the day his cell phone is dead. I also said about what if their was an emeregency how would she/he contact one another. So, I agree 100%, this is indeed a mystery.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Nellie


I guess I just think for most of us it sounds unrealistic.
Furthermore, I'd feel guilty if I laid in bed every morning while my husband gets up and gets the kids dressed and fed and brings me coffee in bed....before he heads off to work! I guess I just couldn't do that every morning.

I think it's legitimate that most people find it odd.

Yeah, I saw that message she left. I thought she has been unable to function.

I think Christine has made herself suspicious by her immediate plea for money and posting on so many different internet boards. She even mentioned her make-up after one of the tv interviews...like she was worried about how she looked. I had no suspicions of her before that. IMO, it would be wise of her to close down the Pay Pal account and fund at the bank. It makes her look bad. [/*]

Who is to say what or why people do the things that they do but I still don't think that is proof of anything regarding his disappearance.

Everyone is pointing at the pregnant wife but I have a feeling something else happened here. His car was found a good 40 minutes away from his work. A good 20 minutes from where he lived. In a place that nobody can tie him to AT ALL. Neighbors at the condos say that the car was in a couple of different parking spots while being there.

That would mean that she did something to him and then took his car 20-25 minutes away and then proceeded to move it around.. all while everyone was out looking for him and staying with her and the children.

How did she do it? She is pregnant and has 2 small children at home. The police haven't placed her anywhere near him in the time that he went missing.

How did the car get moved around to at least 3 different parking spots at the condo complex? Seems more likely to me that he met up with someone bad.. probably trying to be who he was and help them out.. and something happened to him. They then took his car and used it. Which is why it was seen in different parking spots. Someone in that condo complex knows SOMETHING.

With all of that being said.. I do have to admit that I watched an interview where she said "he loved us - loves us....". Although from what I understand.. she believes that something bad happened to him because he would never leave her and the children.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by Nellie


I guess I just think for most of us it sounds unrealistic.
Furthermore, I'd feel guilty if I laid in bed every morning while my husband gets up and gets the kids dressed and fed and brings me coffee in bed....before he heads off to work! I guess I just couldn't do that every morning.

I think it's legitimate that most people find it odd.

Yeah, I saw that message she left. I thought she has been unable to function.

I think Christine has made herself suspicious by her immediate plea for money and posting on so many different internet boards. She even mentioned her make-up after one of the tv interviews...like she was worried about how she looked. I had no suspicions of her before that. IMO, it would be wise of her to close down the Pay Pal account and fund at the bank. It makes her look bad. [/*]

I think the more she rants and raves about people saying things the more the truth of what really happen will be exposed! She told the "Media", her finances were good and nothing was wrong there, then the next day she says she is broke! I have no doubt that he is probably a great husband, but if he wiped his PayPal account out with out her knowing than it's apparent that she didn't know him that well afterall. And I will ask once again - has she taken a polygraph??? I asked her that question and she completely ignore it and started complaining about us saying things that weren't true about her husband. Mystery - you know that is the first thing they make husbands, boyfriends, do when their wife is missing, so why is she different? I'm just curious is all....it sure would clear alot of this talk about her on all the blogs. JMOO

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Danette44


I questioned the exact same thing, funny how he disappears the day his cell phone is dead. I also said about what if their was an emeregency how would she/he contact one another. So, I agree 100%, this is indeed a mystery. [/*]

He called her before leaving work. They live 20 minutes away. That isn't that long to not be in contact.

His cell was dead before he left work. If he was going to disappear.. why didn't he do it before work.. why go to work that day?? Why call his wife so that she was expecting him home? Why tell his daughter during the call that he would make Valentine's Day cookies with her that evening? That is completely out of his character.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


I don't really understand any of the posts regarding this. So what if he brought her coffee or food to bed. Maybe that is just how he was. MAYBE HE WANTED TO. Maybe he didn't sit back with his checklist of what has she done for me lately and just enjoyed taking care of his pregnant wife.. the mother of his children. I don't see how this is proof of one thing except that he was a good husband and man. Maybe that is all she is trying to get across.

Sorry for the rant but it seems ridiculous to sit and judge someone based on something like that. I happen to know someone that knows Nicholas and Christine. This is how he was.. not just to his wife but to all the people in his life.

Anyway.. I found this message left by Christine on Saturday.. thought it was interesting...

I can’t believe that on a church blog you all would be speculating that my husband just ran off on me. what kind of people are you? what kind of christians are you? My husband did not run off one me. I have never asked for money. People have asked me out right, including media, about our finances and I answer with the truth. So who are you to jump to conclusions. I am dieing inside, this whole thing is killing me and you who don’t know us and post on a church website are making assumptions and accusations that have no grounds for. what kind of Christian does that? I came and read on this blog hopeing for a little more uplifting thoughts and prayer and here i am being attacked. How cruel.

http://voxpopnetwork.com/westseattle/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/ [/*]

IMO Christine is no different than anyone else. Had she been the one to go missing, everyone would be questioning Nicholas, his interviews and his actions. There are things she has said and done that are suspect. By suspect I don't mean she did anything TO him, but her reference to their finances and suggesting people send money to Paypal rather than gift cards.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Who is to say what or why people do the things that they do but I still don't think that is proof of anything regarding his disappearance.

Everyone is pointing at the pregnant wife but I have a feeling something else happened here. His car was found a good 40 minutes away from his work. A good 20 minutes from where he lived. In a place that nobody can tie him to AT ALL. Neighbors at the condos say that the car was in a couple of different parking spots while being there.

That would mean that she did something to him and then took his car 20-25 minutes away and then proceeded to move it around.. all while everyone was out looking for him and staying with her and the children.

How did she do it? She is pregnant and has 2 small children at home. The police haven't placed her anywhere near him in the time that he went missing.

How did the car get moved around to at least 3 different parking spots at the condo complex? Seems more likely to me that he met up with someone bad.. probably trying to be who he was and help them out.. and something happened to him. They then took his car and used it. Which is why it was seen in different parking spots. Someone in that condo complex knows SOMETHING.

With all of that being said.. I do have to admit that I watched an interview where she said "he loved us - loves us....". Although from what I understand.. she believes that something bad happened to him because he would never leave her and the children. [/*]

First of all, let me tell you that I have posted that I don't think she has done anything to him. Personally, I think he may have run off. But anything is possible, right? IF...and this is a big IF imo, she did have anything to do with harming him, the fact she has 2 kids and is pregnant would not change that. She could have an accomplice or even hire a hit man. Do I think this happened? No.

Second of all, I don't think that anyone can KNOW whether a person would leave them or not. I've seen that plenty of times. I remember hearing the same thing when Beth Smith took off....friends and family were all saying she'd NEVER leave her children. Well, in fact, she did.

I do agree with you that perhaps someone at that complex knows something.

No one is saying they have proof of anything. We're all just speculating....just like we speculate on other cases. There are several different theories and we're just looking at them. I thought that was what we did on these boards.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


He called her before leaving work. They live 20 minutes away. That isn't that long to not be in contact.

His cell was dead before he left work. If he was going to disappear.. why didn't he do it before work.. why go to work that day?? Why call his wife so that she was expecting him home? Why tell his daughter during the call that he would make Valentine's Day cookies with her that evening? That is completely out of his character. [/*]

Do you know him personally?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Well said Nellie - as I said before, why should this case be an exception? I'm wondering after reading Mystery's post if perhaps he gave someone a ride and ran into foul play. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that if someone had stolen his car I highly doubt they would be driving it and moving it around a busy aparment complex.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


He called her before leaving work. They live 20 minutes away. That isn't that long to not be in contact.

His cell was dead before he left work. If he was going to disappear.. why didn't he do it before work.. why go to work that day?? Why call his wife so that she was expecting him home? Why tell his daughter during the call that he would make Valentine's Day cookies with her that evening? That is completely out of his character. [/*]

I don't know. Why didn't Beth Smith take off before heading to LA for the Christian Conference? Why didn't she take off after her roommate went to sleep the night before instead of going to the conference the next morning for half of it and then leaving after the intermission? Why do we know why people do the things they do? :shrug:

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Danette44


I think the more she rants and raves about people saying things the more the truth of what really happen will be exposed! She told the "Media", her finances were good and nothing was wrong there, then the next day she says she is broke! I have no doubt that he is probably a great husband, but if he wiped his PayPal account out with out her knowing than it's apparent that she didn't know him that well afterall. And I will ask once again - has she taken a polygraph??? I asked her that question and she completely ignore it and started complaining about us saying things that weren't true about her husband. Mystery - you know that is the first thing they make husbands, boyfriends, do when their wife is missing, so why is she different? I'm just curious is all....it sure would clear alot of this talk about her on all the blogs. JMOO [/*]

Yep.. I agree Danette.. I wondered if they asked her to take one also. I haven't heard anything about it.

I did hear on the news that the King County Sherriff had looked over their finances and didn't find anything that stood out to them. So, I have to wonder if more isn't being made of that on the boards then is reality.

I know that the money is troubling people and I can understand that. I am just not getting the feeling from that that others are getting. It is expensive to live here in Seattle and for a couple living paycheck to paycheck that has to more than a little stressful for her since he was the one making the money. I don't think that is the first thing that I would think of in the situation but I know alot of people that would be thinking of it relatively quickly.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Well said Nellie - as I said before, why should this case be an exception? I'm wondering after reading Mystery's post if perhaps he gave someone a ride and ran into foul play. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that if someone had stolen his car I highly doubt they would be driving it and moving it around a busy aparment complex. [/*]

It could be a possibility, but if that happened...then where is he?
Plus, no one saw anything? And the police say there is no evidence of foul play in the car or anywhere. Although, Christine did say they were checking out fingerprints in the car. Has anyone read that in any of the news articles?

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Yep.. I agree Danette.. I wondered if they asked her to take one also. I haven't heard anything about it.

I did hear on the news that the King County Sherriff had looked over their finances and didn't find anything that stood out to them. So, I have to wonder if more isn't being made of that on the boards then is reality.

I know that the money is troubling people and I can understand that. I am just not getting the feeling from that that others are getting. It is expensive to live here in Seattle and for a couple living paycheck to paycheck that has to more than a little stressful for her since he was the one making the money. I don't think that is the first thing that I would think of in the situation but I know alot of people that would be thinking of it relatively quickly. [/*]

Mystry, it was the pleas for money and a fund being set up at a bank that first raised my hinky meter. Along with her comment of her husband shielding her from knowing how bad things were, added with the wierd comment about his Pay Pal account. I had just seen her on Greta where she said they didn't have any more financial problems than any other couple and then all of a sudden I see the fundraising on the web and the desperate need for money.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Nellie


I don't know. Why didn't Beth Smith take off before heading to LA for the Christian Conference? Why didn't she take off after her roommate went to sleep the night before instead of going to the conference the next morning for half of it and then leaving after the intermission? Why do we know why people do the things they do? :shrug: [/*]

touche'

and no I don't know him personally. I know a co worker and friend of his.

They really believe that he has met with foul play and do not believe that he would leave his wife, children and family on his own.. BUT.. as you pointed out.. many of Beth's friends didn't believe she would either.. ALTHOUGH.. I have to say.. the police and her family did believe that she left on her own and there was proof that something was going on with her.. ie.. being high at work.. telling coworkers that she was divorced.. etc etc.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Nellie


Mystry, it was the pleas for money and a fund being set up at a bank that first raised my hinky meter. Along with her comment of her husband shielding her from knowing how bad things were, added with the wierd comment about his Pay Pal account. I had just seen her on Greta where she said they didn't have any more financial problems than any other couple and then all of a sudden I see the fundraising on the web and the desperate need for money. [/*]

My understanding was that it was epsy that begun that.. not her directly?

I know she has since commented on it but I didn't see any pleas for money from her. I haven't been able to watch many of her interviews tho.. I may have missed it? According to her.. based on her blog entry on the church website.. she was asked and only answered truthfully.

[Breazy]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I am in complete agreement with your post. It just seems like to me he did more than his fair share. I saw in one report he worked during the day and freelanced at night. Add to that the care for the children while he was home, stopping at the grocery store after a long day - I just want to give him a hug. [/*]


I agree and also wonder WTH was she doing? He's working night and day, tending to the kids, etc. and he's bringing coffee to her in bed? I wonder when he ever got any sleep.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Mystry - can you find out if 6:00 was his normal time to leave or was he working late? The reason I'm asking is because Christine said on one of her comments that he parks on the street. Are the streets deserted at that time or would there be other commuters leaving at that time. Surely someone saw him get in his car or talking to someone who was trying to bum a ride or whatever. It just seems he vanished into thin air, but his car made it across town.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


touche'

and no I don't know him personally. I know a co worker and friend of his.

They really believe that he has met with foul play and do not believe that he would leave his wife, children and family on his own.. BUT.. as you pointed out.. many of Beth's friends didn't believe she would either.. ALTHOUGH.. I have to say.. the police and her family did believe that she left on her own and there was proof that something was going on with her.. ie.. being high at work.. telling coworkers that she was divorced.. etc etc. [/*]

I wonder if the friend and co-worker knows Christine very well?
One thing about it, imo, he could know Nicholas very well at work or socially, but I often times find that people don't always know about their marriage. I had that happen in my own family. My SIL and BIL acted like the had a perfect marriage....until the day they called it quits! I knew at times it seemed "too perfect" which had made me wonder.

At this point what is your friend going on? What the wife has said? I think she won't even go to the possibility that he left, because it would mean everything wasn't as perfect as she envisioned. Did he see him at work that day? See or hear anything unusual from him? Did he know they were in such dire straits with their finances? I'm truly hoping he hasn't met with foul play.

[carterkatt]

Originally posted by Nellie


I don't know. Why didn't Beth Smith take off before heading to LA for the Christian Conference? Why didn't she take off after her roommate went to sleep the night before instead of going to the conference the next morning for half of it and then leaving after the intermission? Why do we know why people do the things they do? :shrug: [/*]

No one knows why people do the things they do. Remember the teacher from Wisconsin a few months back? Left a church prayer group supposedly to go to a park to get something, but just took off? Why then? Why after the meeting and not before?

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Nellie


It could be a possibility, but if that happened...then where is he?
Plus, no one saw anything? And the police say there is no evidence of foul play in the car or anywhere. Although, Christine did say they were checking out fingerprints in the car. Has anyone read that in any of the news articles? [/*]

I have read that they didn't find anything in the car that stood out to them.

I just found it odd that when the family and friends started talking to people at the complex where the car was found that there was several people that had the car in different spots over the weekend.

I can see it being dumped there but not moved around. And why there.. South Center is HUGE.. The Seatac area (around the Seattle/Tacoma International Airport) is huge.. lots of places to park a car where nobody would say anything for a long time. Just seems odd to me.

[Breazy]

Originally posted by Nellie


I agree. When I heard about him getting the kids up and dressed and serving her coffee in bed EVERY morning, she made me think she might have a "queen/princess complex". I'd take off too if that's the case! Who expects their husband to do that before he goes to work every morning? [/*]


I certainly don't know of any. With him working and her staying home, it should have been the other way around.

[carterkatt]

About the empty paypal account.... does anyone know if it was "low" and had been low and wife just did not know... or was the $$ recently withdrawn (as in preparation of leaving)???

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


My understanding was that it was epsy that begun that.. not her directly?

I know she has since commented on it but I didn't see any pleas for money from her. I haven't been able to watch many of her interviews tho.. I may have missed it? According to her.. based on her blog entry on the church website.. she was asked and only answered truthfully. [/*]

Mystry, imo, she sent out pleas for money, even if she did it through her sisters and others. Even if they went to her and said, "What can we do for you" and she answered, "We're in desperate need for money. Our finances were not in good shape before he left, but now they are in a crises"....then yes, she was appealing for money. She may not have been the one who came on and said it on the board.....but, she sent the message through others. She was behind the appeal for money, imo. If not, then when they came to her and asked what they could do for her, she could have said, "At this point, just lift us up in prayer and get the word out".

[cog1]

Hi All! :seeya:

I just heard about this case on Greta the other night. So forgive me if this has been talked about. (Still reading and catching up.)

The first thing that struck me was the age and model of the car. Not exactly the type car someone would steal. Course it does happen.

Also the mention nothing was found in the vehicle to indicate foul play.

No ties to the apartment complex.

The wife said it was getting dark when he left work but not totally dark yet. Is it possible that he was carjacked dumped out somewhere just for some kids to joy ride around for a little while? I know this has happened before.

Something just does not see right.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by carterkatt
About the empty paypal account.... does anyone know if it was "low" and had been low and wife just did not know... or was the $$ recently withdrawn (as in preparation of leaving)??? [/*]

We really don't know that the Pay Pal account was empty. That was speculation in trying to figure out what alarmed the wife to their bad finances by looking at his Pay Pal account. There's only so much you can see from a Pay Pal account....like, how much $$$$ is in it. It doesn't show you what bills are or are not paid. So, it was an odd way to sum up their finances, imo.

We really have no idea what she saw in it.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by carterkatt


No one knows why people do the things they do. Remember the teacher from Wisconsin a few months back? Left a church prayer group supposedly to go to a park to get something, but just took off? Why then? Why after the meeting and not before? [/*]

Exactly. That's why we can't dismiss him just taking off because he bothered to go to work all day.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by cog1
Hi All! :seeya:

I just heard about this case on Greta the other night. So forgive me if this has been talked about. (Still reading and catching up.)

The first thing that struck me was the age and model of the car. Not exactly the type car someone would steal. Course it does happen.

Also the mention nothing was found in the vehicle to indicate foul play.

No ties to the apartment complex.

The wife said it was getting dark when he left work but not totally dark yet. Is it possible that he was carjacked dumped out somewhere just for some kids to joy ride around for a little while? I know this has happened before.

Something just does not see right. [/*]

I thought about this too cog1. But.. at that time of the evening.. between downtown Seattle and the Seatac area... there is not many places where someone could carjack you and someone else wouldn't see. I could totally see someone standing at the entrance to the freeway with a sign looking for a ride to the airport tho. Don't know if he would have picked up someone tho.

[Breazy]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


[respectfully snipped]

I don't really understand any of the posts regarding this. So what if he brought her coffee or food to bed. Maybe that is just how he was. MAYBE HE WANTED TO. Maybe he didn't sit back with his checklist of what has she done for me lately and just enjoyed taking care of his pregnant wife.. the mother of his children. I don't see how this is proof of one thing except that he was a good husband and man. Maybe that is all she is trying to get across.

Sorry for the rant but it seems ridiculous to sit and judge someone based on something like that. I happen to know someone that knows Nicholas and Christine. This is how he was.. not just to his wife but to all the people in his life. [/*]


That may very well be true and if so, Christine was one lucky lady! However, people have become overwhelmed and had breakdowns/took off for far less.

[cog1]

Thanks Mystery.

The wife said she called him at work to see if he had left yet. Do I have that right? He said he had something to take care of first. She asked him to stop at Cosco to pick up sugar. IIRC she said he made plans to bake cookies with his daughter that night and would never have missed that.

Why did she wait so long to think he was missing? If at 6:10 she expected he would be leaving soon, say 6:30 or 6:40. She said the store was in their neighborhood. So say 10 minutes in and out of store. Twenty to thirty minute drive home.

Shouldn't he have arrived home by 7:30 or so at the latest?

Excuse me for asking but when did she report him missing? Who did she call first?

TIA

[Breazy]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Who is to say what or why people do the things that they do but I still don't think that is proof of anything regarding his disappearance.

Everyone is pointing at the pregnant wife but I have a feeling something else happened here. His car was found a good 40 minutes away from his work. A good 20 minutes from where he lived. In a place that nobody can tie him to AT ALL. Neighbors at the condos say that the car was in a couple of different parking spots while being there.

That would mean that she did something to him and then took his car 20-25 minutes away and then proceeded to move it around.. all while everyone was out looking for him and staying with her and the children.

How did she do it? She is pregnant and has 2 small children at home. The police haven't placed her anywhere near him in the time that he went missing.

How did the car get moved around to at least 3 different parking spots at the condo complex? Seems more likely to me that he met up with someone bad.. probably trying to be who he was and help them out.. and something happened to him. They then took his car and used it. Which is why it was seen in different parking spots. Someone in that condo complex knows SOMETHING.

With all of that being said.. I do have to admit that I watched an interview where she said "he loved us - loves us....". Although from what I understand.. she believes that something bad happened to him because he would never leave her and the children. [/*]


I don't believe Christine directly did anything to him. I'm just saying its a possibility that he became overwhelmed for whatever reason and took off.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by cog1
Thanks Mystery.

The wife said she called him at work to see if he had left yet. Do I have that right? He said he had something to take care of first. She asked him to stop at Cosco to pick up sugar. IIRC she said he made plans to bake cookies with his daughter that night and would never have missed that.

Why did she wait so long to think he was missing? If at 6:10 she expected he would be leaving soon, say 6:30 or 6:40. She said the store was in their neighborhood. So say 10 minutes in and out of store. Twenty to thirty minute drive home.

Shouldn't he have arrived home by 7:30 or so at the latest?

Excuse me for asking but when did she report him missing? Who did she call first?

TIA [/*]

I questioned this earlier - she reported him missing at bedtime which was around 10:00 pm. I found it odd because she stated he would call if he was even going to be 15 minutes late. Of course with his cell phone dead, he couldn't.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


I have read that they didn't find anything in the car that stood out to them.

I just found it odd that when the family and friends started talking to people at the complex where the car was found that there was several people that had the car in different spots over the weekend.

I can see it being dumped there but not moved around. And why there.. South Center is HUGE.. The Seatac area (around the Seattle/Tacoma International Airport) is huge.. lots of places to park a car where nobody would say anything for a long time. Just seems odd to me. [/*]

I know. It sounds as if the car was being used and re-parked by someone at the complex, doesn't it?

Now that you mention the airport, is this complex really close to it? What's the possibility that he could have parked it there and walked over to the airport to take off in a plane? If that seems too far for walking, then what if he met someone there....got into their car to go to the airport....or even called a cab? I had wondered early on if bus stations or airports had been checked. Why would he leave his car there instead of the airport parking lot? Well...think about it. If his car was left in the airport parking lot, then people would be checking flights, right? But leaving it there, it doesn't seem anyone has even thought of the possibility of him taking off in a jet.

Also, the point about his cell phone being dead. Maybe it wasn't. If he was planning to go catch a plane, maybe he didn't want his wife trying to call him. If she tried to call him and couldn't reach him, she may become worried sooner and start looking for him sooner. So, if he tells her his cell phone is dead, she won't be calling for him. Right? He could head for the airport with the secure knowledge that she wouldn't be trying to call him.

Just some thoughts.....

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Breazy



That may very well be true and if so, Christine was one lucky lady! However, people have become overwhelmed and had breakdowns/took off for far less. [/*]

Yep.. that would make her a very lucky lady AND it should have.. at least some of the time.. been the other way around.

I think my rant came more from personal feelings than anything. OUR MEN SHOULD TREAT US LIKE THAT. We shouldn't be shocked when one does or think that is reason for them to run away. lol

[cog1]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I questioned this earlier - she reported him missing at bedtime which was around 10:00 pm. I found it odd because she stated he would call if he was even going to be 15 minutes late. Of course with his cell phone dead, he couldn't. [/*]

Thanks Rainy. This is just not adding up to me. A mother with small babes and she is not scared that he hasn't made it home by 10pm?

I would have been beside myself thinking that something MUST have happened. Where is he?

Have they checked her phone records to see if she was trying to reach him at work during this time since he cell phone was dead? Not that means anything I am just curious.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Yep.. that would make her a very lucky lady AND it should have.. at least some of the time.. been the other way around.

I think my rant came more from personal feelings than anything. OUR MEN SHOULD TREAT US LIKE THAT. We shouldn't be shocked when one does or think that is reason for them to run away. lol [/*]

LOL.....but, I'd feel guilty being served in bed every morning. So I wouldn't be able to accept it anyway! :D

[Nellie]

Originally posted by cog1


Thanks Rainy. This is just not adding up to me. A mother with small babes and she is not scared that he hasn't made it home by 10pm?

I would have been beside myself thinking that something MUST have happened. Where is he?

Have they checked her phone records to see if she was trying to reach him at work during this time since he cell phone was dead? Not that means anything I am just curious. [/*]

Yeah...looks like she would have called back to the office and see if she could talk to someone and ask if he left and what time.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Yep.. that would make her a very lucky lady AND it should have.. at least some of the time.. been the other way around.

I think my rant came more from personal feelings than anything. OUR MEN SHOULD TREAT US LIKE THAT. We shouldn't be shocked when one does or think that is reason for them to run away. lol [/*]

LOL so true!

[cog1]

Originally posted by Nellie


Yeah...looks like she would have called back to the office and see if she could talk to someone and ask if he left and what time. [/*]

Right because I'm thinking she said they spoke frequently. So why would he just not show up. I mean an hour late would be pushing it. Wouldn't you call to see if something was still going on at the office? How late could the little girl stay up to bake cookies? Wouldn't the daughter be asking every 10 minutes, when is daddy coming home?

Strange!

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Nellie


I know. It sounds as if the car was being used and re-parked by someone at the complex, doesn't it?

Now that you mention the airport, is this complex really close to it? What's the possibility that he could have parked it there and walked over to the airport to take off in a plane? If that seems too far for walking, then what if he met someone there....got into their car to go to the airport....or even called a cab? I had wondered early on if bus stations or airports had been checked. Why would he leave his car there instead of the airport parking lot? Well...think about it. If his car was left in the airport parking lot, then people would be checking flights, right? But leaving it there, it doesn't seem anyone has even thought of the possibility of him taking off in a jet.

Also, the point about his cell phone being dead. Maybe it wasn't. If he was planning to go catch a plane, maybe he didn't want his wife trying to call him. If she tried to call him and couldn't reach him, she may become worried sooner and start looking for him sooner. So, if he tells her his cell phone is dead, she won't be calling for him. Right? He could head for the airport with the secure knowledge that she wouldn't be trying to call him.

Just some thoughts..... [/*]

No.. they live in Seatac.. which is basically the area around the airport. His car was found 20 minutes (by freeway) south of that area in Federal Way. The Costco at South Center is right off of the freeway.. the same exit he would take to go to home except it is to the east and home is to the west.

That is what I mean by it being odd that it was found where it was.. there is a huge mall that he was suppose to be at.. South Center.. and then the Seatac area where nobody would have a second thought about a car parked around there because cars are left all the time because of the airport.. lots of businesses and hotels.. etc. there. Plus.. it is a quick get away for him but it wasn't found there.

That is why I thought it odd. He had to pass his exit home

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by cog1


Right because I'm thinking she said they spoke frequently. So why would he just not show up. I mean an hour late would be pushing it. Wouldn't you call to see if something was still going on at the office? How late could the little girl stay up to bake cookies? Wouldn't the daughter be asking every 10 minutes, when is daddy coming home?

Strange! [/*]

If you have time Cog go read Page 1 and part of 2 -its an interesting read concerning the time thing. I like to have never got my point across, but finally someone understood what I was saying :punch:

[cog1]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


If you have time Cog go read Page 1 and part of 2 -its an interesting read concerning the time thing. I like to have never got my point across, but finally someone understood what I was saying :punch: [/*]

Thanks Rainy will do!!

[huskiki]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I questioned this earlier - she reported him missing at bedtime which was around 10:00 pm. I found it odd because she stated he would call if he was even going to be 15 minutes late. Of course with his cell phone dead, he couldn't. [/*]


If he was getting out of work at 6:00 ish, add to that the commute, time in the store, we figure he should be home around 7:30. Who starts baking cookies with a young child at 7:30 at night? I don't know about any of you but I have my 5 year old ready for bed by 7:30. Just saying.

Sorry Rainy, I got sidetracked :) I too would have thought she would have been quick on the phone calling around for him long before 10:00. He seems to follow a strict routine so I would think she would begin to wonder shortly after 7:30 or so. IMO/JMO

[Breazy]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Yep.. that would make her a very lucky lady AND it should have.. at least some of the time.. been the other way around.

I think my rant came more from personal feelings than anything. OUR MEN SHOULD TREAT US LIKE THAT. We shouldn't be shocked when one does or think that is reason for them to run away. lol [/*]


I agree to some extent but to be honest, when my husband unexpectantly does sweet things for me, things he wouldn't normally do, it makes me wonder what he's feeling guilty about. I've even asked him that. I wouldn't know what to think with a husband like this. I must say, however, I'm a lot like this husband is described . . . always doing for others, wanting to please everyone . . . In this case, if it was the norm for him to do these things, then there wouldn't be any reason to question it. I'm not saying the things he may have done for Christine would be reason for taking off . . . only that all the pressures on him combined could have knocked him over the edge.

[desmom]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/351639_missing17__web.html

The couple met at the Art Institute of Seattle where they were both students. They just celebrated their seventh wedding anniversary a couple of weeks ago. They have two small children, and a third baby on the way.

I know this is going to sound corny, but could this be the 7 year itch syndrome?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by huskiki



If he was getting out of work at 6:00 ish, add to that the commute, time in the store, we figure he should be home around 7:30. Who starts baking cookies with a young child at 7:30 at night? I don't know about any of you but I have my 5 year old ready for bed by 7:30. Just saying.

Sorry Rainy, I got sidetracked :) I too would have thought she would have been quick on the phone calling around for him long before 10:00. He seems to follow a strict routine so I would think she would begin to wonder shortly after 7:30 or so. IMO/JMO [/*]

That was always my thought and it was based on things she herself said in interviews about his habits.

[kaylynn]

Originally posted by huskiki



If he was getting out of work at 6:00 ish, add to that the commute, time in the store, we figure he should be home around 7:30. Who starts baking cookies with a young child at 7:30 at night? I don't know about any of you but I have my 5 year old ready for bed by 7:30. Just saying.

Sorry Rainy, I got sidetracked :) I too would have thought she would have been quick on the phone calling around for him long before 10:00. He seems to follow a strict routine so I would think she would begin to wonder shortly after 7:30 or so. IMO/JMO [/*]

My daughter is around that age, and we don't start getting her ready for bed until around 8:45-9 so she is in bed by 9:30. I'm just saying..everyone does it differently I guess. I agree though, if she expected him home no later than 7:30, I dont know why she waited until 10 to call the police. I would have been going nuts and searching all over for him and calling the police well before 10.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by desmom
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/351639_missing17__web.html



I know this is going to sound corny, but could this be the 7 year itch syndrome? [/*]

I don't think it sounds corny - I think it is a scenario that needs to be looked at as unpleasant as it may be to think about.

[Breazy]

Originally posted by huskiki



If he was getting out of work at 6:00 ish, add to that the commute, time in the store, we figure he should be home around 7:30. Who starts baking cookies with a young child at 7:30 at night? I don't know about any of you but I have my 5 year old ready for bed by 7:30. Just saying.

Sorry Rainy, I got sidetracked :) I too would have thought she would have been quick on the phone calling around for him long before 10:00. He seems to follow a strict routine so I would think she would begin to wonder shortly after 7:30 or so. IMO/JMO [/*]


I did read where she started becoming concerned at 8:00 and could have very well made calls trying to find him before reporting him missing at 10:00.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Breazy



I did read where she started becoming concerned at 8:00 and could have very well made calls trying to find him before reporting him missing at 10:00. [/*]

I would have thought she would have said that though, don't you? She would have made mention that "I called around to family and friends and called his office to see if he had left at 6, and no one had seen him, so I called police." But she never said that, did she?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
I noticed that everyone has carefully avoided the subject of suicide here. But if you are going to have a discussion about this case, this has to be brought in as one of the theories.

People can and do have emotional issues that they can no longer deal with. How they handle these issues depends on the person and the issues.

People are very good at hiding depression. Many times, it is hidden behind a caregivers face. Someone who loves and gives until there is nothing left for themselves.

To the person who is with Nicolas: You are not helping him or protecting him by letting him stay with you. If he is hurting, he needs help.

His family and friends will forgive him, if he will just call someone. Help him see this. [/*]

Actually that never entered my mind. You are right - people who constantly give and nurture become drained and need to be replenished. I so hope he walks back in the door safe.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
I noticed that everyone has carefully avoided the subject of suicide here. But if you are going to have a discussion about this case, this has to be brought in as one of the theories.

People can and do have emotional issues that they can no longer deal with. How they handle these issues depends on the person and the issues.

People are very good at hiding depression. Many times, it is hidden behind a caregivers face. Someone who loves and gives until there is nothing left for themselves.

To the person who is with Nicolas: You are not helping him or protecting him by letting him stay with you. If he is hurting, he needs help.

His family and friends will forgive him, if he will just call someone. Help him see this. [/*]

Beth, suicide could be a definate possibility. But where would his body be? He would have had to park the car in that lot and walked off somwhere to kill himself. Right? Is there a motel nearby that he could have checked into? Any woods nearby? They've searched so I would think they would have found him if he had just walked off from the car and committed suicide. But it's still a possibility.

What makes you think he is with someone? Are you thinking maybe he is staying with someone in that complex? It's crossed my mind.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Breazy



I did read where she started becoming concerned at 8:00 and could have very well made calls trying to find him before reporting him missing at 10:00. [/*]

Now that you mention it, I think I read that too. We don't know what she did from the last time she spoke with Nicholas until she spoke with the police. She could have been calling all around town, we wouldn't know. Which brings me back to his cell phone. My guess is that she called his cell even though he said it was dead. We're only going on his word that it wasn't charged. hmmmmm ....

I hope we get more information soon!

[Nellie]

Ok, maybe he went on some secret Christian retreat? I know...far fetched. It wouldn't be very Christian to worry your family like this. But I was just thinking of the church angle and how many people think it's a strange church. I don't necessarily, because I don't know much about it. BUT, if it is cultish, could it be that they thought he needed to go to a retreat where NO ONE would know where he is and NO ONE from the outside world could get to him, so he could be refreshed spiritually? It would be weird, I know, but I keep hearing this church is weird and I'm curious about them resigning from it just 2 days before he went missing.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


Beth, suicide could be a definate possibility. But where would his body be? He would have had to park the car in that lot and walked off somwhere to kill himself. Right? Is there a motel nearby that he could have checked into? Any woods nearby? They've searched so I would think they would have found him if he had just walked off from the car and committed suicide. But it's still a possibility.

What makes you think he is with someone? Are you thinking maybe he is staying with someone in that complex? It's crossed my mind. [/*]

How far is that storage unit from where his car was found - there supposedly was a sighting of him at a storage unit. Storage units could possibly not be checked for weeks.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
He may only be only thinking about it and not harmed himself. This is why I think that someone is with him and is trying to protect him. [/*]

Thank you Beth - I asked you earlier what your intuition was as I've seen you speak about it on other threads.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Nellie


Beth, suicide could be a definate possibility. But where would his body be? He would have had to park the car in that lot and walked off somwhere to kill himself. Right? Is there a motel nearby that he could have checked into? Any woods nearby? They've searched so I would think they would have found him if he had just walked off from the car and committed suicide. But it's still a possibility.

What makes you think he is with someone? Are you thinking maybe he is staying with someone in that complex? It's crossed my mind. [/*]


About the condo complex ...I think I'm repeating myself here so forgive me if I am. Friends and family went knocking on the doors in that complex and nobody had seen him. If he took off and is with someone in that complex, they sure aren't going to throw him under the bus and say "here he is".

Suicide is an option but I agree with you ...where's the body? And Beth mentions suicide and him being with someone all at the same time. Perhaps she thinks he's with someone and thinking about killing himself?

I'm still going with my first thought that he took off.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie
Ok, maybe he went on some secret Christian retreat? I know...far fetched. It wouldn't be very Christian to worry your family like this. But I was just thinking of the church angle and how many people think it's a strange church. I don't necessarily, because I don't know much about it. BUT, if it is cultish, could it be that they thought he needed to go to a retreat where NO ONE would know where he is and NO ONE from the outside world could get to him, so he could be refreshed spiritually? It would be weird, I know, but I keep hearing this church is weird and I'm curious about them resigning from it just 2 days before he went missing. [/*]

Okay now that is a scary thought. But I guess an intervention or something similar is a possibility.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by huskiki



About the condo complex ...I think I'm repeating myself here so forgive me if I am. Friends and family went knocking on the doors in that complex and nobody had seen him. If he took off and is with someone in that complex, they sure aren't going to throw him under the bus and say "here he is".

Suicide is an option but I agree with you ...where's the body? And Beth mentions suicide and him being with someone all at the same time. Perhaps she thinks he's with someone and thinking about killing himself?

I'm still going with my first thought that he took off. [/*]

Exactly Huski - he could just be in a back room with someone "protecting" him.

[cog1]

Originally posted by cog1


Thanks Rainy will do!! [/*]

Ok finally got to read some more. That did help to answer those time questions.

If correct she called LE at 10 pm but became worried around 8pm which really kinda puts the time frame together for me. About 30 minutes after she thought he should be home, she started worrying.

Still catching up but thanks Rainy :D

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Okay now that is a scary thought. But I guess an intervention or something similar is a possibility. [/*]

LOL...I know. My imagination is running wild. Plus, add in that I saw some really weird things happen at a church I used to attend.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


LOL...I know. My imagination is running wild. Plus, add in that I saw some really weird things happen at a church I used to attend. [/*]

Well I live in the area where David Koresh lived and died - so yeah that makes my hair stand on end.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by huskiki



About the condo complex ...I think I'm repeating myself here so forgive me if I am. Friends and family went knocking on the doors in that complex and nobody had seen him. If he took off and is with someone in that complex, they sure aren't going to throw him under the bus and say "here he is".

Suicide is an option but I agree with you ...where's the body? And Beth mentions suicide and him being with someone all at the same time. Perhaps she thinks he's with someone and thinking about killing himself?

I'm still going with my first thought that he took off. [/*]

Well, duh, if someone is hiding him out at the complex...willingly or unwillingly...they aren't going to answer the door and say, "Oh sure, I saw him! He's right here in my apartment!" I say "stake out that complex"!

I wonder what the Private Detective is doing? Staking out the complex? Staking out his home? Looking into his personal life?

[Breazy]

Originally posted by Nellie


I would have thought she would have said that though, don't you? She would have made mention that "I called around to family and friends and called his office to see if he had left at 6, and no one had seen him, so I called police." But she never said that, did she? [/*]

Not that I'm aware of, only that she became worried at 8:00 and reported him missing at 10:00. Surely she did, though. You think?

[cog1]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Well I live in the area where David Koresh lived and died - so yeah that makes my hair stand on end. [/*]

Okay I read a link that the church they USED to attend was praying for him. So it doesn't seem likely that they sent him off some where.

Had they started attending another church?

[cog1]

Originally posted by Nellie


Well, duh, if someone is hiding him out at the complex...willingly or unwillingly...they aren't going to answer the door and say, "Oh sure, I saw him! He's right here in my apartment!" I say "stake out that complex"!

I wonder what the Private Detective is doing? Staking out the complex? Staking out his home? Looking into his personal life? [/*]

What private detective??

TIA

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Nellie


Well, duh, if someone is hiding him out at the complex...willingly or unwillingly...they aren't going to answer the door and say, "Oh sure, I saw him! He's right here in my apartment!" I say "stake out that complex"!

I wonder what the Private Detective is doing? Staking out the complex? Staking out his home? Looking into his personal life? [/*]

What is a Private Detective hired for? Do they perform searches for someone who could have met with foul play? When I hear Private Detective I think of tracking someone down, staking out an area like you said. Christine has been trying to convince people that he has met with foul play so this detective angle doesn't seem to make sense to me.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by huskiki


What is a Private Detective hired for? Do they perform searches for someone who could have met with foul play? When I hear Private Detective I think of tracking someone down, staking out an area like you said. Christine has been trying to convince people that he has met with foul play so this detective angle doesn't seem to make sense to me. [/*]

I don't know. I assumed they hired him to try to find him. I would think a PI would look into his past and present life and it looks like his wife would have to cooperate with them if he wanted to look at their computer or any personal things. His employer hired the Private Detective. I admit that seems odd.....unless they think the police won't do enough. I really don't know.

The first thing I'd be looking at would be their computer....

[Nellie]

Originally posted by cog1


Okay I read a link that the church they USED to attend was praying for him. So it doesn't seem likely that they sent him off some where.

Had they started attending another church? [/*]

Well, it it's a secret spiritual intervention....you keep it a secret. LOL! I did admit though that it's unlikely.

[Breazy]

Originally posted by Nellie


Well, duh, if someone is hiding him out at the complex...willingly or unwillingly...they aren't going to answer the door and say, "Oh sure, I saw him! He's right here in my apartment!" I say "stake out that complex"!

I wonder what the Private Detective is doing? Staking out the complex? Staking out his home? Looking into his personal life? [/*]


When LE discovered the car and it became known that it had been parked in several different spots, they should have left it there and watched it to see who was coming and going in it. Like you said, nobody is going to own up to knowing anything about it.

[cog1]

Originally posted by Nellie


Well, it it's a secret spiritual intervention....you keep it a secret. LOL! I did admit though that it's unlikely. [/*]

LOL I just didn't think they would openly be searching, praying for his return etc. if they sent him off for healing.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by Nellie


I don't know. I assumed they hired him to try to find him. I would think a PI would look into his past and present life and it looks like his wife would have to cooperate with them if he wanted to look at their computer or any personal things. His employer hired the Private Detective. I admit that seems odd.....unless they think the police won't do enough. I really don't know.

The first thing I'd be looking at would be their computer.... [/*]

Yes, the computer seems to be the focal point of their relationship. With all the online contacts they have through their shops, etc ..., something has to turn up.

Have you seen Christine's myspace? She states: "I am a stay at home mom but first I am a wife. I home school my kiddos." She is first a wife and he waits on her. Home schools her kids, they're like 5 and 1 (or 2). I don't know about her mental state. IMO/JMO However, she does make nice products and beautiful pictures.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
He may only be only thinking about it and not harmed himself. This is why I think that someone is with him and is trying to protect him. [/*]

Someone is protecting him until he commits suicide?

The one thing about this whole theory is.. they have checked his phone records, bank accounts, computer records and not found him communicating with anyone.

Also.. it is not illegal to go missing. All he has to do is call the police.. tell them that he is okay and they would stop looking for him.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Oh the phone records are back? I had not heard that.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Oh the phone records are back? I had not heard that. [/*]


Neither did I. Where can we read about that?

[isitme]

I have wondered if his employer hired the PI to find him because they suspect he has embezzeled money or something from them.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by huskiki


Yes, the computer seems to be the focal point of their relationship. With all the online contacts they have through their shops, etc ..., something has to turn up.

Have you seen Christine's myspace? She states: "I am a stay at home mom but first I am a wife. I home school my kiddos." She is first a wife and he waits on her. Home schools her kids, they're like 5 and 1 (or 2). I don't know about her mental state. IMO/JMO However, she does make nice products and beautiful pictures. [/*]

Did anyone else notice in her interview on KOMO that she says that he had his laptop?? I am thinking that they have not found it.. although haven't heard that anywhere.

The other thing is.. I watched that interview again and she is talking about why she doesn't believe that anyone would have done something to him for the money or the car because they don't have any money and the car isn't anything special. I didn't see her as putting him down or their situation.. just that she couldn't see why someone would do something to him.. with money or the car being a motive. I honestly think people blew that out of proportion.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by isitme
I have wondered if his employer hired the PI to find him because they suspect he has embezzeled money or something from them. [/*]

uhhh.. ok. There is NO evidence of that.

The employer hired a PI to FIND HIM because he is an employee and friend and was last seen leaving their business.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by isitme
I have wondered if his employer hired the PI to find him because they suspect he has embezzeled money or something from them. [/*]

I'm glad YOU said it. It crossed my mind, I didn't want to say it. LOL!

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


uhhh.. ok. There is NO evidence of that.

The employer hired a PI to FIND HIM because he is an employee and friend and was last seen leaving their business. [/*]

That's what I think too Mystry, but at this point...anything is possible. From all accounts, this is a very nice guy. I like him from what I've read!

So, what do you think a PI will do to try to find him?

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Oh the phone records are back? I had not heard that. [/*]

She has given them access to all of that was what I heard. So, unless he had some that she did not know about then the police have gone over it.

[huskiki]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Did anyone else notice in her interview on KOMO that she says that he had his laptop?? I am thinking that they have not found it.. although haven't heard that anywhere.

The other thing is.. I watched that interview again and she is talking about why she doesn't believe that anyone would have done something to him for the money or the car because they don't have any money and the car isn't anything special. I didn't see her as putting him down or their situation.. just that she couldn't see why someone would do something to him.. with money or the car being a motive. I honestly think people blew that out of proportion. [/*]

I questioned his laptop a while back, wondering if it was his work laptop or personal. He's a web guy so it would make sense that he take his work laptop back and forth from work to home. Was there any mention as to which laptop is was?

I think what got people about the interview about the car was that she said it wasn't anything special and then a photo surfaced of her house with 2 cars in the driveway. The other car looked to be a newer subaru. She keeps saying that they are broke but everthing I have seen leads me to believe that they aren't or shouldn't be. She even stated somewhere that her shop was doing well. How bad off could they be? Ok, stupid question because I know we all get into financial difficulties from time to time regardless of how much money we make.

Then there's the paypal account. I can't help but wonder if she saw a large withdrawl and came to some conclusions of her own.

[cog1]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


uhhh.. ok. There is NO evidence of that.

The employer hired a PI to FIND HIM because he is an employee and friend and was last seen leaving their business. [/*]


While checking the net it seems there are a lot of people within the working community who are genuinely trying to help. It seems they are just trying to do the right thing and give their financial support as well as time to locate him.

Nothing I read made me think he was nothing other than respected by his peers.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Did anyone else notice in her interview on KOMO that she says that he had his laptop?? I am thinking that they have not found it.. although haven't heard that anywhere.

The other thing is.. I watched that interview again and she is talking about why she doesn't believe that anyone would have done something to him for the money or the car because they don't have any money and the car isn't anything special. I didn't see her as putting him down or their situation.. just that she couldn't see why someone would do something to him.. with money or the car being a motive. I honestly think people blew that out of proportion. [/*]

She told her Etsy group that his laptop and cell phone are missing.

I saw some attitude in that interview....like "duh, we don't have anything worth stealing". So, if not for possessions, why does she think anyone would take him?

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Nellie


That's what I think too Mystry, but at this point...anything is possible. From all accounts, this is a very nice guy. I like him from what I've read!

So, what do you think a PI will do to try to find him? [/*]

I am not a PI so I don't know. Hopefully they will check his work computer. Try to get his wife to cooperate and let them see his phone, bank, paypal etc records to see if there is anything that isn't adding up.

If he was planning on leaving.. and hasn't used any of his money from his bank account or paypal account.. then I would want to know.. did he have any other bank accounts? Is there any OTHER accounts besides the one he shared with his wife through paypal. Did he transfer money from their paypal to anywhere else? He would need money.. if he was leaving. I would think following the money trail would tell alot about whether he was planning something or not.

[carterkatt]

I really hate to think of suicide.. but since we're going down that road.. .don't most insurance policies NOT pay for a suicide? Maybe he was suicidal but had a plan so that it would not be seen as a suicide, so his family would receive insurance money?

Sorry to be pessimistic... but looking at all angles.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


She has given them access to all of that was what I heard. So, unless he had some that she did not know about then the police have gone over it. [/*]

Oh - I thought his cell phone was a company issued cell phone. The last I heard a Judge would not sign off on them examining the records, but the mobile company had mercy and allowed it. I didn't know anything was back though. Thanks!

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by huskiki


I questioned his laptop a while back, wondering if it was his work laptop or personal. He's a web guy so it would make sense that he take his work laptop back and forth from work to home. Was there any mention as to which laptop is was?

I think what got people about the interview about the car was that she said it wasn't anything special and then a photo surfaced of her house with 2 cars in the driveway. The other car looked to be a newer subaru. She keeps saying that they are broke but everthing I have seen leads me to believe that they aren't or shouldn't be. She even stated somewhere that her shop was doing well. How bad off could they be? Ok, stupid question because I know we all get into financial difficulties from time to time regardless of how much money we make.

Then there's the paypal account. I can't help but wonder if she saw a large withdrawl and came to some conclusions of her own. [/*]

I wonder about the laptop too.

Both of them seem to be very connected to the web world. He wouldn't go far without his laptop or a connection to the internet. Wonder if he had a wireless card that they can trace?

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Someone is protecting him until he commits suicide?

The one thing about this whole theory is.. they have checked his phone records, bank accounts, computer records and not found him communicating with anyone.

Also.. it is not illegal to go missing. All he has to do is call the police.. tell them that he is okay and they would stop looking for him. [/*]

I've never read anywhere that they've checked his computer records. Where did you read that? I wish they would, but they've never confiscated his home computer and the laptop one is missing.

[Track292003]

I posted something like this before, but don't think I had any response, so here goes again:

Perhaps whoever drove the car to the condo complex where it was found and subsequently moved it around, chose that parking lot as a decoy. I've read that some of the tenants originally (before the car was identified as belonging to Nicholas) were wondering if the car belonged to a tenant in another nearby complex which had run out of available parking spaces and was therefore using their parking lot. (This would have ticked them off!)

So, I wonder if LE has brought in the dogs to sniff around nearby complexes as well as the one where the car was found.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Oh - I thought his cell phone was a company issued cell phone. The last I heard a Judge would not sign off on them examining the records, but the mobile company had mercy and allowed it. I didn't know anything was back though. Thanks! [/*]

Oh sorry.. I didn't know about that.

My friend said that she had given them permission to go through the phone and bank records. I guess I assumed that meant his cell. Didn't realize it was a work one.

If it was a work one then the company wouldn't need permission to give those records to the PI they hired.. right?

[cog1]

Re: phone search


The art director from Publicis West, Nicholas Francisco, is still missing. Investigators recently sought a search warrant to compel his cellphone carrier to release his phone records, but a judge refused to sign the warrant as their is no evidence of a crime. Sheriff’s spokesman Sgt. John Urquhart said: “Being missing is not a crime.”

Luckily, T-Mobile has released his records voluntarily. Hopefully, this will lead to further clues as to where the twenty-eight year old father could be.

Again, donations to the family can be directed to the Nicholas Francisco Family Fund at any national Washington Mutual branch.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


Oh sorry.. I didn't know about that.

My friend said that she had given them permission to go through the phone and bank records. I guess I assumed that meant his cell. Didn't realize it was a work one.

If it was a work one then the company wouldn't need permission to give those records to the PI they hired.. right? [/*]

I think the company would have to give permission but since the mobile company has opened them up, I would think the PI could look at them also.

To clarify - I don't know whether the phone was a company one or a personal one.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


I am not a PI so I don't know. Hopefully they will check his work computer. Try to get his wife to cooperate and let them see his phone, bank, paypal etc records to see if there is anything that isn't adding up.

If he was planning on leaving.. and hasn't used any of his money from his bank account or paypal account.. then I would want to know.. did he have any other bank accounts? Is there any OTHER accounts besides the one he shared with his wife through paypal. Did he transfer money from their paypal to anywhere else? He would need money.. if he was leaving. I would think following the money trail would tell alot about whether he was planning something or not. [/*]

Omigosh, I just thought of something! What if she is aware that he has taken off (for whatever reason) and she has all this money sent to the Pay Pal account and he has a Pay Pal debit card that he can access the account and withdraw the money!

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Track292003
I posted something like this before, but don't think I had any response, so here goes again:

Perhaps whoever drove the car to the condo complex where it was found and subsequently moved it around, chose that parking lot as a decoy. I've read that some of the tenants originally (before the car was identified as belonging to Nicholas) were wondering if the car belonged to a tenant in another nearby complex which had run out of available parking spaces and was therefore using their parking lot. (This would have ticked them off!)

So, I wonder if LE has brought in the dogs to sniff around nearby complexes as well as the one where the car was found. [/*]

Well that could certainly be a possibility as it sure seemed to be a very visible place.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by Track292003
I posted something like this before, but don't think I had any response, so here goes again:

Perhaps whoever drove the car to the condo complex where it was found and subsequently moved it around, chose that parking lot as a decoy. I've read that some of the tenants originally (before the car was identified as belonging to Nicholas) were wondering if the car belonged to a tenant in another nearby complex which had run out of available parking spaces and was therefore using their parking lot. (This would have ticked them off!)

So, I wonder if LE has brought in the dogs to sniff around nearby complexes as well as the one where the car was found. [/*]

I think it very well could be a decoy. I even think it could be a decoy place to park it and get in another car and take off to the airport and take off for parts unknown. It would throw off the thought process of him flying out of there.

I would be checking out all public transportation....planes, boats, trains, taxis, bus.....all of them.

[isitme]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


uhhh.. ok. There is NO evidence of that.

The employer hired a PI to FIND HIM because he is an employee and friend and was last seen leaving their business. [/*]


There is no evidence of a lot of things in this case. For example there is no evidence that he commited suicide either. That doesn't stop me from speculating that there may be something more to the employer hiring a PI early on after he vanished. Why would they invest in a PI so soon when the search had just barely begun? As I recall the mention of the employer hiring the PI was made before they even found the car.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


Omigosh, I just thought of something! What if she is aware that he has taken off (for whatever reason) and she has all this money sent to the Pay Pal account and he has a Pay Pal debit card that he can access the account and withdraw the money! [/*]

I know nothing about PayPal - would there be no paper trail?

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by cog1
Re: phone search


The art director from Publicis West, Nicholas Francisco, is still missing. Investigators recently sought a search warrant to compel his cellphone carrier to release his phone records, but a judge refused to sign the warrant as their is no evidence of a crime. Sheriff’s spokesman Sgt. John Urquhart said: “Being missing is not a crime.”

Luckily, T-Mobile has released his records voluntarily. Hopefully, this will lead to further clues as to where the twenty-eight year old father could be.

Again, donations to the family can be directed to the Nicholas Francisco Family Fund at any national Washington Mutual branch. [/*]

TMobile is one of Publicis West's biggest clients.

[kaylynn]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I know nothing about PayPal - would there be no paper trail? [/*]

I'm pretty sure pay-pal is all electronic.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by isitme



There is no evidence of a lot of things in this case. For example there is no evidence that he commited suicide either. That doesn't stop me from speculating that there may be something more to the employer hiring a PI early on after he vanished. Why would they invest in a PI so soon when the search had just barely begun? As I recall the mention of the employer hiring the PI was made before they even found the car. [/*]
They also had people driving from the door of their business and taking every available route to his home and everywhere in between. What does that prove?

[Danette44]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


He called her before leaving work. They live 20 minutes away. That isn't that long to not be in contact.

His cell was dead before he left work. If he was going to disappear.. why didn't he do it before work.. why go to work that day?? Why call his wife so that she was expecting him home? Why tell his daughter during the call that he would make Valentine's Day cookies with her that evening? That is completely out of his character. [/*]

Do you realize the % of accidents that happen close to home, and how do we know that he was going to bake cookies with his daughter, thats what she is telling the news media - we do know for a FACT his cell phone wasn't working that day. jmoo

[cog1]

Originally posted by isitme



There is no evidence of a lot of things in this case. For example there is no evidence that he commited suicide either. That doesn't stop me from speculating that there may be something more to the employer hiring a PI early on after he vanished. Why would they invest in a PI so soon when the search had just barely begun? As I recall the mention of the employer hiring the PI was made before they even found the car. [/*]

I honestly get the feeling that they are really concerned and are only doing this because it is one of thier OWN.

They are searching for him as well. Employees that worked with him are participating in the serches to find him.

I just don't feel like he did anything wrong at work. Just the opposite. He seemed to be very well liked and regarded.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Danette44


Do you realize the % of accidents that happen close to home, and how do we know that he was going to bake cookies with his daughter, thats what she is telling the news media - we do know for a FACT his cell phone wasn't working that day. jmoo [/*]

We also know that he never made it home and that his car was found 20 miles away! We also know that there has been no connection between where it was found and him. We also know that it wasn't just dropped off where it was found. It was seen in.. at least.. two other parking spots. We DO know that the car was probably started with a key since the ignition was in tact. So.. the person moving it.. most likely had they key. We know that his keys, cell phone and presumably.. laptop have not been found anywhere.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I questioned this earlier - she reported him missing at bedtime which was around 10:00 pm. I found it odd because she stated he would call if he was even going to be 15 minutes late. Of course with his cell phone dead, he couldn't. [/*]

You are good Rainy I forgot about that comment also!! So, that is my point about the cell phone - it being dead the day he disappears. What are the odds of that?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by cog1


I honestly get the feeling that they are really concerned and are only doing this because it is one of thier OWN.

They are searching for him as well. Employees that worked with him are participating in the serches to find him.

I just don't feel like he did anything wrong at work. Just the opposite. He seemed to be very well liked and regarded. [/*]

I don't think he did anything wrong either - I think people are just discussing this case just like they do all other cases.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Danette44


You are good Rainy I forgot about that comment also!! So, that is my point about the cell phone - it being dead the day he disappears. What are the odds of that? [/*]

Hey Danette - the strangest things stick in my mind...anyway I think we need to find out....

Was his cell phone a personal one or a company issued. If it was company issued, they generally give you a car charger.

Was his laptop personal or company issued? If it was company issued, then there would be no need to put out a bulletin asking if anyone ever received email from him. His company would have a record of all IP addresses issued to employee computers and there would be numerous work associates, clients, etc. that would have received an email from him.

[cog1]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I don't think he did anything wrong either - I think people are just discussing this case just like they do all other cases. [/*]

I know we should discuss all of it. You never know what will be found out. Seems he is pretty clean so far. I don't really have any doubts about him.

[isitme]

I don't know anymore than anyone else what has happened. Is he alive? Did he run away - alone or with someone? Was he harmed in anyway? Nobody on here really knows. My thoughts regarding the employer hiring the PI come from the timing of the PI being hired. Why would a PI be hired before the LE had done a complete investigation? There has been nothing that I have read that indcated that the LE was not doing their job.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by isitme
I don't know anymore than anyone else what has happened. Is he alive? Did he run away - alone or with someone? Was he harmed in anyway? Nobody on here really knows. My thoughts regarding the employer hiring the PI come from the timing of the PI being hired. Why would a PI be hired before the LE had done a complete investigation? There has been nothing that I have read that indcated that the LE was not doing their job. [/*]

I can agree with that.

[Nellie]

Here's a curiosity for me.

She has closed her sites....I guess right after he dissappeared.

In her feedback in early Feb. she began to leave messages for buyers to visit her at the other site....that they had moved to it.
So, was she already planning to close the Bella site? I mean, why start telling people that you're moving to the other site unless you're planning to close the other?

wonderful buyer! we have moved to rinnovibodyspa.etsy.com please visit us there!
BellaStyle 2/06/2008


http://www.etsy.com/feedback_public.php?user_id=5008691&feedback_type=for_others

[Danette44]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Well I live in the area where David Koresh lived and died - so yeah that makes my hair stand on end. [/*]

OMG Rainy! That was horrible, I'll never forget that day and the same with Jim Jones.....glad to see he didn't get to you also!

[Nellie]

I'm looking over her site and must say she has nice products.
I would buy some myself.

I'm also looking at her feedbacks and there's a couple of interesting ones on page 3 of the Seller feedback. Here's a comment of a sell that is cancelled. Just found it interesting. There is another one from the same seller who cancelled the order from her. Not that it means anything.....just interesting.

After sending many detailed messages in response to very picky questions from both her and her husband, Bellastyle purchased this special order item from me. After the order was placed she asked for a completely different item than was agreed upon and then cancelled the order altogether stating that her husband was opposed to the purchase.

http://www.etsy.com/feedback_public.php?user_id=5008691&feedback_type=from_sellers&page=3

[Danette44]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I know nothing about PayPal - would there be no paper trail? [/*]

I used it once to pay a bill online and it ask for my bank name account number, routing number, check number, and when it clear it sent me a message back.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I know nothing about PayPal - would there be no paper trail? [/*]

Not really, unless you print out the pages yourself.
Your account is online.
There is a trail of transactions, but it is all online.
I have an online business too....much like Christine, but not on Etsy. So, I'm familiar with running an online business. I will tell you this. People THINK if you're having lots of sales that you're really raking in the dough. But that is not true. A lot of time it just amounts to "cash flow" with money going right back into the business. There's a lot more to it than people realize. It's not just selling, but you are the designer, the manufacturer, the packager, the accountant keeping track of everything for taxes, you file the taxes, and so on. And you get a sale but then need most of it for supplies to make more product. I doubt very much that she was getting rich from it. And there's expenses people don't think of. In my case, I spent a lot on electronic art. Then there is the monthly fee for my website and a monthly fee for my Pay Pal. Fees for processing credit cards. There's a lot more expenses than your materials to make the product. There's even advertisting costs sometimes.

Now, as far as Pay Pal. People buy from her and pay through her shopping cart and the money goes directly into her Pay Pal account. It stays there until she uses the funds to buy something elsewhere on the web, uses a debit card at the store or somewhere, or literally withdraws the money from an ATM or transfers it to her bank account. She can actually sign up to process credit cards from it. She could pay bills from it with a debit card. She could buy from Wal Mart or anywhere with a debit card. It's just like a bank account, but is online.

Does that help any?

[desmom]

I have a friend that can never remember to plug in her phone until it starts beeping low battery. Her husband on the other hand plugs his phone as soon as he walks in the door at night.
Does Nicholas forget to charge his phone? Is it unusual for Nicholas' phone to die during the day?

The condo complex search: It was reported the car was moved several times. How big is this complex? I agree with huskiki's post re if someone from the complex was helping Nicholas they are not going to tell a stranger doing a door to door canvass of the property.

Christine was surprised at their financial situation when she accessed their paypal account. What if Nicholas has been siphoning off a few $$ here and there for several months?

[Danette44]

Originally posted by MystryPhobia


I am not a PI so I don't know. Hopefully they will check his work computer. Try to get his wife to cooperate and let them see his phone, bank, paypal etc records to see if there is anything that isn't adding up.

If he was planning on leaving.. and hasn't used any of his money from his bank account or paypal account.. then I would want to know.. did he have any other bank accounts? Is there any OTHER accounts besides the one he shared with his wife through paypal. Did he transfer money from their paypal to anywhere else? He would need money.. if he was leaving. I would think following the money trail would tell alot about whether he was planning something or not. [/*]

Mystry - what did you mean by the comment -............."Try to get his wife to cooperate and let them see his phone, bank, paypal etc records to see if there is anything that isn't adding up".......... Is that just a figure of speech or are they having problems getting her to cooperate? That word .......TRY........just kinda of grab my eyesite LOL Also, why don't they get her computer also, then she can stop getting stressed out over what is being said on the internet. I think I'm going to write an email to the Police Department in that area they need some help on answering our questions
:lol:

[Nellie]

Originally posted by desmom
I have a friend that can never remember to plug in her phone until it starts beeping low battery. Her husband on the other hand plugs his phone as soon as he walks in the door at night.
Does Nicholas forget to charge his phone? Is it unusual for Nicholas' phone to die during the day?

The condo complex search: It was reported the car was moved several times. How big is this complex? I agree with huskiki's post re if someone from the complex was helping Nicholas they are not going to tell a stranger doing a door to door canvass of the property.

Christine was surprised at their financial situation when she accessed their paypal account. What if Nicholas has been siphoning off a few $$ here and there for several months? [/*]

Actually she called it HIS Pay Pal account. I remember wondering if he had given her his password. I suspect more that he took out one lump sum...the day he took off. But I may be totally wrong!

I think no news makes us speculate too much! LOL!

This reminds me of Beth Smith. There was so much speculation about that too....same kind of speculation. Suicide, husband knocking her off and friend was in on it...it went on and on and on and then one day she was found in NY (she was from TN if I recall). She had a job and had set up a new life and didn't want the police to tell her whereabouts. And all along her friends and family said she would not leave her children!

[Danette44]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Hey Danette - the strangest things stick in my mind...anyway I think we need to find out....

Was his cell phone a personal one or a company issued. If it was company issued, they generally give you a car charger.

Was his laptop personal or company issued? If it was company issued, then there would be no need to put out a bulletin asking if anyone ever received email from him. His company would have a record of all IP addresses issued to employee computers and there would be numerous work associates, clients, etc. that would have received an email from him. [/*]

I have a company cell phone and it's At&t and my boss can actually go online and see the numbers I've been calling or coming into me before she gets the bill.

[desmom]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
To add to this mystery, I suspect that something happened at work the day he disappeared.

No one at work will say otherwise but something DID happen.

Now, he is missing. [/*]
Originally posted by Beth Engleman
Very interesting....could be why the phone wasn't working that day. [/*]

Do you think the company shut off his phone? Do you think maybe he was fired or caught up in cut-backs?

Who owned the laptop? His employer?

Maybe that is why they hired a PI?

[Nellie]

Originally posted by desmom



Do you think the company shut off his phone? Do you think maybe he was fired or caught up in cut-backs?

Who owned the laptop? His employer?

Maybe that is why they hired a PI? [/*]

I would think if his employer knew anything that would help to solve this mystery, they would tell it. I got them impression that he's well thought of at work. Actually I get the impression that he's well thought of period.

[isitme]

Originally posted by desmom



Do you think the company shut off his phone? Do you think maybe he was fired or caught up in cut-backs?

Who owned the laptop? His employer?

Maybe that is why they hired a PI? [/*]

If the laptop and phone were the employers, the laptop and phone were not found in the car, it was reported that he said he had to "sign off on something" before he left work, the hiring of the PI so early . . . . hmmmmm could indicate a possible work related issue came up?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


Not really, unless you print out the pages yourself.
Your account is online.
There is a trail of transactions, but it is all online.
I have an online business too....much like Christine, but not on Etsy. So, I'm familiar with running an online business. I will tell you this. People THINK if you're having lots of sales that you're really raking in the dough. But that is not true. A lot of time it just amounts to "cash flow" with money going right back into the business. There's a lot more to it than people realize. It's not just selling, but you are the designer, the manufacturer, the packager, the accountant keeping track of everything for taxes, you file the taxes, and so on. And you get a sale but then need most of it for supplies to make more product. I doubt very much that she was getting rich from it. And there's expenses people don't think of. In my case, I spent a lot on electronic art. Then there is the monthly fee for my website and a monthly fee for my Pay Pal. Fees for processing credit cards. There's a lot more expenses than your materials to make the product. There's even advertisting costs sometimes.

Now, as far as Pay Pal. People buy from her and pay through her shopping cart and the money goes directly into her Pay Pal account. It stays there until she uses the funds to buy something elsewhere on the web, uses a debit card at the store or somewhere, or literally withdraws the money from an ATM or transfers it to her bank account. She can actually sign up to process credit cards from it. She could pay bills from it with a debit card. She could buy from Wal Mart or anywhere with a debit card. It's just like a bank account, but is online.

Does that help any? [/*]

Yes thanks so much!

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Danette44


I have a company cell phone and it's At&t and my boss can actually go online and see the numbers I've been calling or coming into me before she gets the bill. [/*]

I used to manage cell phone accounts for the company I worked for. You are correct.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
usually when you use the phrase......I have to sign off on something, means you have to sign your name that you returned something.

Recently, I was asked at work to sign some paperwork when I returned company issued equipment.

Asking for company owned equipment, keys. ID badges or any company related property usually require a signature. It may or may not be related to leaving the company's employment. [/*]

Couldn't it also mean sign off on an art project he had approved or an invoice that was credited to him or any number of things? To me that sounds like the normal course of business.

[desmom]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
His employer would never publicly disclose any problems that they might have had with Nicholas. Disclosing such information is a breach of privacy and he could file legal action.

What they tell LE is another matter. [/*]

Could be why LE has not made any statements since Friday.

[MarieSM]

I am a seller on Etsy and many people were very upset at the rude comments some of the people from that forum made to people discussing this case on the Seattle West blog. In fact, it was Christine who had read the blog, was naturally upset to hear speculation, and posted a link to it in the thread on Etsy, telling her supporters that this had upset her and they might find it interesting.

I suspect she knew full well what they would do. And her sister did indeed convey to a seller from Etsy when they asked what they could do, that the family was in dire need of financial support. That was less than 24 hours after Christine's initial post that her husband was missing. That is solicitation for money in my book, even though these well-intentioned people keep denying the money was asked for. That they simply offered.

My feeling is that at this point Christine should tell them to stop donating and soliciting for more donations. Being on Etsy and knowing where to look in the forums, I can tell you that the money is rolling in. There is no oversight whatsoever. It's all done by direct deposit to a bank account. Even though they've been asked several times, no one knows how much has been raised. Some people are funneling money on a regular basis to her.

I wonder how long they will keep this up if he never comes home. And I wonder what the Franciscos will do with the money if he turns up after just running away after all.

[RainyNiteNTx]

The money aspect has been discussed numerous times on here - people do not understand why someone missing would warrant money being solicited so quickly. A lot of people also do not understand why Christine is all over the internet blasting people who are offering scenarios as to what happened. It comes with the territory. I for one thank you for posting here and confirming what some of us have suspected all along as to how the money transpired. I think it may have a lot to do with this case.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Danette44


Mystry - what did you mean by the comment -............."Try to get his wife to cooperate and let them see his phone, bank, paypal etc records to see if there is anything that isn't adding up".......... Is that just a figure of speech or are they having problems getting her to cooperate? That word .......TRY........just kinda of grab my eyesite LOL Also, why don't they get her computer also, then she can stop getting stressed out over what is being said on the internet. I think I'm going to write an email to the Police Department in that area they need some help on answering our questions
:lol: [/*]

LOL It was just a figure of speech. If I was a PI what would I do.. sort of thing.

My understanding is that she has opened everything up to them.

[MystryPhobia]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
This is a serious discussion of what may or may not have happened to Nicholas Francisco.

The constant mention and promotion of the Esty Stores/website is a distraction. Whether the members want to donate to the Francisco family is their own business and has nothing to do with his disappearance.

Also if Christine Francisco is offended by the speculation and discussion on this message board, I encourage her to not visit and read it. [/*]

Actually any one can come here and post.

I have seen no promotio of the etsy stores on here except to mention that is where her and her husband do business, who is asking for money for the family etc. That is all relevant to the case.

Sorry.. I just don't see how the truth of the situation is a distraction??

[desmom]

Welcome to CTV MarieSM!

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Couldn't it also mean sign off on an art project he had approved or an invoice that was credited to him or any number of things? To me that sounds like the normal course of business. [/*]

Yep, it sure could! I used to do Accounts Payable and I had to have bills that were signed off on by the boss to indicate to me that they were ok to pay. I don't put much mystery in this "signing off" thing.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


Yep, it sure could! I used to do Accounts Payable and I had to have bills that were signed off on by the boss to indicate to me that they were ok to pay. I don't put much mystery in this "signing off" thing. [/*]

No I never did either - I just went back and watched Christine's interview with Nancy Grace. She said the last thing he said to her was I love you Bella. See it is things like this that make me wonder if me and my husband are normal. We talk a couple of times a day and usually end with a quick "love you...love you too", but it is not a declaration like she described. It just makes me wonder (heck everything does at this point lol) if he knew he wasn't coming home.

Clip of Interview with Nancy Grace on CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/02/22/ng.nicholas.francisco.cnn

[MarieSM]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
RE: Money donations from Itsy sellers going to the Francisco family. Perhaps it is significant that this is happening and it is relevant to the case.

But some of the sellers are using this and other forums to promote the stores name which I find offensive. They mentioned that sales have never been better since this case was posted on various message boards. It's taking advantage of a very sad situation. [/*]

------------------------------

I'm sorry you are offended by my statement. I in no way promoted anything about Etsy or my shop. You have no idea what my Etsy shop name is. I merely mentioned that I was on Etsy to give some credibility to my statement.

I do think that certain behaviors of the wife that are unusual to say the least, are relevant.

Thanks Desmom, for the welcome! I appreciate it.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by MarieSM
I am a seller on Etsy and many people were very upset at the rude comments some of the people from that forum made to people discussing this case on the Seattle West blog. In fact, it was Christine who had read the blog, was naturally upset to hear speculation, and posted a link to it in the thread on Etsy, telling her supporters that this had upset her and they might find it interesting.

I suspect she knew full well what they would do. And her sister did indeed convey to a seller from Etsy when they asked what they could do, that the family was in dire need of financial support. That was less than 24 hours after Christine's initial post that her husband was missing. That is solicitation for money in my book, even though these well-intentioned people keep denying the money was asked for. That they simply offered.

My feeling is that at this point Christine should tell them to stop donating and soliciting for more donations. Being on Etsy and knowing where to look in the forums, I can tell you that the money is rolling in. There is no oversight whatsoever. It's all done by direct deposit to a bank account. Even though they've been asked several times, no one knows how much has been raised. Some people are funneling money on a regular basis to her.

I wonder how long they will keep this up if he never comes home. And I wonder what the Franciscos will do with the money if he turns up after just running away after all. [/*]

Welcome Marie! I have seen this scenario before. IF he comes back, the money will not be returned As a matter of fact, I would expect even more money to be thrown her way. That may be surprising, but I've seen this kind of manipulation done before. The reason she went back to the Etsy group to tell about that mean ol' group of people was to garner more sympathy and support. I watched a woman work a group one time for several years straight while her poor husband was dying of cancer. At first I wasn't even sure it was a "real story", but along the way some verified it. She shared very intimate things about her husband and the disease...even bathroom habits...and I cringed inside. Auctions were held over and over and over for her and all money was just given to her....absolutely no accountability. And, like you said, it can be a lot of money. I remember we had access to the auction and could add up how much things went for and one auction alone brough in almost $10,000! We're not talking chump change. This went on for at least 3 years and a group inside of the group got weary of it. But if you mentioned it was too much...you were evil. After all, this man was dying. On top of the money, there were gifts for the kids mailed. I'm sure those kids had more gifts under their tree than others in the group. And of course the food gift cards and the Toys R Us gift cards, and Target gift cards. Yes, she also told them where she liked to shop. Yes, she also asked that no gifts be sent to her children.....but she was very willing to accept the money. I felt horrible...absolutely horrible...for the man, as I began to feel he was being used as a pawn for money. There was absolutely no accountability of the money. Some of us wondered if she even turned it in as income on her taxes...I highly doubt it. It was just tax free money. Need a new fridge....just come to the group and tell them. Need a new car....let them know. Oh yes, but never ever come right out and ASK FOR IT! You let other people do that for you. You get an inner core in the group that you can tell these things to and then they'll go to the group for you....so you never have to ask for it directly yourself. So, saying "I never asked for it" doesn't work for me. And after the man died...it didn't end. Then she was a widow with a small child. Let's help her buy a headstone for his grave. Then she and her child need a vacation after all they had been through...let's get them tickets and send them on a vacation. Then she had spent so much time tending to her husband, she needed a makeover, new clothes...new clothes for her child. What many of us noticed is that she would dissappear until she had a need. It was always all about her. She never cared about anyone else on the group. Then a year later she met a man...God brought him to her. He was the one God wanted her with. So she came and told the group. Now it was time to shower her with wedding gifts. The marriage didn't last long...I guess God was wrong. Honestly, guys, it was sickening. While I felt so bad for the man....she even showed pitiful pictures of him in the hospital...it was just too much. She may not have had these intentions in the beginning, but she realized how easy it was to get money from this group and a monster was created. I blamed the group as much as her. I'm no longer on this group, so don't know if she comes back or not. She came out of nowhere...I didn't even know who she was when it all started. I guess this soured me on internet fund raising. And this fund raising happening now is bringing up all of those memories. It can be for a legitimate concern, but too much can honestly be done. I saw it happen. In this case, I think the fund rasing came too quickly. It will continue if he does come home because everyone will want to help take the financial pressures off to save their marriage. If (so hoping not) he is found dead, then it will continue to help support the pregnant widow with 2 small children. Yes, this other woman had family too. I often wondered if her family even knew what was going on.

I don't want to sound ugly. I'm just sharing an incident that I witnessed before. I don't know how this case will turn out. I'm hoping for the best.

I also so wish victims wouldn't go looking around the web to see what is being said. Things get discussed that they may be better off not to see.

Sorry so long....

[isitme]

I have not seen any promotion of Etsy here. The people that have indicated that they are members of Etsy don't appear to be using the names they use on Etsy, at least I don't recognize them, so how would they be promoting themselves?

I suspect the reason they aren't using the same names is so they can discuss the real issues here beause they sure can't over there. It is well known that do so one would run the risk of attacks to their business by the handful of supporters of Christine.

[desmom]

http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/case.cfm?id=53372

Police in Federal Way, Wash. recovered a red 1992 Toyota Paseo on Feb. 18, 2008 that belongs to a missing father from Seattle. Nicholas Francisco, 28, was reported missing by his wife on Wednesday, Feb. 13. Nicholas' car was spotted by a resident of Heritage Condos who recognized it from media reports and called the police.

Cops do not know how Nicholas' car ended up in Federal Way -- about 10 miles in the opposite direction of his home -- noting that it had been parked at the condo complex for three days. When police arrived, the car was unlocked and the keys and Nicholas' laptop computer were missing. Cops did not find any blood or other signs of foul play, but are continuing a forensic examination of the car, hoping to come up with new clues.

ETA ~ He was reported missing on the 13th, the car was discovered on the 18th and LE says the car was parked at the condo for 3 days. Where was the car the other 2 days?

[soyesterday]

Originally posted by Amaryllis


That bothers me also..because she keeps on with foul play never he left she acts like he is already dead and that bothers me why did she not look into the camera and say whoever has my husband let him go or Nick if you are out ther please come home.....She has done none of those things she just keeps saying foul play,foul play.....How the Hell does she know? I really hope she is wrong I hope he did run off. MOO! [/*]

k i know there is nothing funny about this case, but i have to say that i really thought u were saying "moo" as in a cow...
and i was like....well that's kinda mean...lol....and then u said it again....and then i thought....that must mean something else....like "my opinion only"? lol.....

[huskiki]

I just finished catching up on what you all have been discussing since I left work. LOL

All I have to say (for now lol) is that it's almost 8:30 and there's been no mention of Nicholas on Nancy Grace. Why is that? My guess is that Greta won't have it on either. To me that means that they too find something fishy with the story. IMO JMO

[MarieSM]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
You are right and I apologize....I was wrong. Thank you for your comment and yes, it is most interesting how money is being funnelled into Christine's account.

To explain what I meant, I was referring to messages on other boards where Itsy sellers were pushing to get the name across at every occasion. It seemed that every other word contained the name. Also, people were mentioning that sales were way up due to the increase in publicity. So, I thought you were trying to do the same....sorry ! [/*]


Thanks Beth and you are right about the mentioning of "that marketplace" everywhere. Most of us on "that marketplace" didn't like that either.

What makes me feel that Christine knows more than she is letting on are all those strange behaviors together. After the Greta Susteren interview, she even posted "Well, at least you all got to see me with makeup on". Who even cares about that when their husband has gone missing. And her posts appear to be very strategically timed depending on what's going on at that moment. She just doesn't act like a woman who is overly distraught. And I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but she did slip up in one interview and used the past tense and quickly corrected it. She said "....no he loved us----loves us..." All of these little things are not much alone, but when you start piling them up, an image begins to appear of someone who is at the least not forthcoming with everything.

[KindraLore]

I'd just like to chime in here again if I may.

First of all, if you use a PayPal account, yes there is a "trail" so to speak. Your accounts are tied to bank accounts, credit cards, or whatever you fund it with. I doubt very seriously that she would fund his paypal account in some scam. It would be easily found out because even if it was funded with funds that people sent, it would be tied to her account or an account with her info.

Secondly, this family probably does need real financial help here so I think (IMO) its really beating a dead horse for going on and on about the donation situation.

Its been stated time and time again that concerned friends, public, etc.. set it up and if she is in NEED (with two small children to feed and have a roof over their heads) then so be it. I have seen plenty of cases where there are accounts set up for the families of missing people. In fact, it ends up being the norm and there is not a thing wrong with it.

Ok, so it happened really soon after he went missing. She did not come out and say "give me money, my husband is missing". Again, its been said that others stated her financial concerns. When bad things happen to good people, others usually rally 'round (which again, is a good thing).

I personally doubt he just took off. From everything that has been said about his character, even if he decided all the sudden with no previous signs that he did not want to be married anymore, he would also have to dupe his whole family (i.e. mother, sisters and everyone that ever cared about him) for his self serving ways.

On the last note, there have been MANY men that disappear without a trace and no evidence as to where they are. Examples include but are not limited to John Glasgow, Brian Shaffer, Matthew Wilson, Kyle Fleischmann, Justin Gaines, Joshua Szostak, Nicholas Garza and Michael Barbiere. Not one clue as to where any of them are and there are many more like them. All of them more than likely the victim of foul play by some random stranger. So its not uncommon. Not common, but certainly not uncommon in this day and time.

Respectfully,
KindraLore

[Nellie]

Originally posted by KindraLore
I'd just like to chime in here again if I may.

First of all, if you use a PayPal account, yes there is a "trail" so to speak. Your accounts are tied to bank accounts, credit cards, or whatever you fund it with. I doubt very seriously that she would fund his paypal account in some scam. It would be easily found out because even if it was funded with funds that people sent, it would be tied to her account or an account with her info.

Secondly, this family probably does need real financial help here so I think (IMO) its really beating a dead horse for going on and on about the donation situation.

Its been stated time and time again that concerned friends, public, etc.. set it up and if she is in NEED (with two small children to feed and have a roof over their heads) then so be it. I have seen plenty of cases where there are accounts set up for the families of missing people. In fact, it ends up being the norm and there is not a thing wrong with it.

Ok, so it happened really soon after he went missing. She did not come out and say "give me money, my husband is missing". Again, its been said that others stated her financial concerns. When bad things happen to good people, others usually rally 'round (which again, is a good thing).

I personally doubt he just took off. From everything that has been said about his character, even if he decided all the sudden with no previous signs that he did not want to be married anymore, he would also have to dupe his whole family (i.e. mother, sisters and everyone that ever cared about him) for his self serving ways.

On the last note, there have been MANY men that disappear without a trace and no evidence as to where they are. Examples include but are not limited to John Glasgow, Brian Shaffer, Matthew Wilson, Kyle Fleischmann, Justin Gaines, Joshua Szostak, Nicholas Garza and Michael Barbiere. Not one clue as to where any of them are and there are many more like them. All of them more than likely the victim of foul play by some random stranger. So its not uncommon. Not common, but certainly not uncommon in this day and time.

Respectfully,
KindraLore [/*]

There absolutely is a trail with Pay Pal. I'm sorry if I made it sound like there isn't. It will show you where the money came from and where it was sent/paid out to. Just like a checking account.

While I agree that many men have dissappeared without a trace, I think the fund raising has put a different light on this case. Were funds raised like this for these other men? I don't know the answer to that. I'm sure they do need it to pay bills, but if these bills were in such dire straights before he went missing, his going missing has nothing to do with it. They needed the help BEFORE he went missing too. She actually did let everyone know that she needed money...by saying she looked at his pay pal account and he was shielding her from knowing how bad the finances were. So, she did let everyone know she needed money.

I'm so hoping he has just taken off. Like you, I think he appears to be a really nice, young family man. I want him to be ok.
I'm really thinking he took off...but there is a small part that thinks he may have met with foul play too. I can't dismiss taking off though because he wouldn't want to worry his parents, sisters, wife, etc. I've seen it happen before and people DO take off and worry their family.

I think at this point I want to try to stop speculating about this case. I don't know what to think and I think about every scenario has been discussed and I don't want to come across as being cold. I hope we have some new news soon and I hope it's good news. We just don't have very many clues at this point.

[KindraLore]

Ok, let's say he took off. No warning but it would had to have been planned. Afterall, if you are going to disappear (leave your job, everything behind), you would need a good amount of money right?

That means planning. Hiding cash away. Being able to walk away from your KIDS. I dont know the man but from what I have seen, he doesn't look the type to walk away from his children. Anyway, say he did. How much cash would you need?

In this planning you have to know the police will be called, maybe lots of media. You could be found out. This sort of thing you would mull through over and over. Would it be worth it? What if you are found out and the whole world knows you just duped everyone and walked away? Is it worth it? Especially when there are other ways out.

Again with the money. How much would you feel comfortable walking away from your whole life with? You need money to survive for awhile. Travel, food, eating, a place to stay. Then always paranoid someone will find out. I dunno. Seems a bit far fetched to me with this guy's history and what we know about him.

As you all have pointed out, anything could and can happen, but for me, it just doesn't fit.

[KindraLore]

And yes, there are accounts set up for most of the men I mentioned, maybe not for actual support for the family but for PIs, reward, continuing the search for their loved ones. This man is a little different because they were not well off and he does have two small children and a pregnant wife.

[soyesterday]

Originally posted by KindraLore
Ok, let's say he took off. No warning but it would had to have been planned. Afterall, if you are going to disappear (leave your job, everything behind), you would need a good amount of money right?

That means planning. Hiding cash away. Being able to walk away from your KIDS. I dont know the man but from what I have seen, he doesn't look the type to walk away from his children. Anyway, say he did. How much cash would you need?

In this planning you have to know the police will be called, maybe lots of media. You could be found out. This sort of thing you would mull through over and over. Would it be worth it? What if you are found out and the whole world knows you just duped everyone and walked away? Is it worth it? Especially when there are other ways out.

Again with the money. How much would you feel comfortable walking away from your whole life with? You need money to survive for awhile. Travel, food, eating, a place to stay. Then always paranoid someone will find out. I dunno. Seems a bit far fetched to me with this guy's history and what we know about him.

As you all have pointed out, anything could and can happen, but for me, it just doesn't fit. [/*]

I agree. It doesn't seem to fit. Could he be having an affair or something? Maybe...but again....would all this be worth it? It's all over the news. His family and friends are devestated. I don't think he walked away. That's just my opinion.
It is baffeling to think what could have happened though.
So he tells his wife he loves her and that he is stopping by the store on the way home.
He is seen by someone he works with leaving the parking lot that night.
He doesn't make it to Cotsco????
Was there someone in the car waiting for him? And forced him to drive somewhere? That person did something to him and drove his car somewhere and dropped him off??
Why??? A robbery? What other reason are these missing men all disapearing for, if not robbery?
I don't get it.....
And why was the car moved a few times?????
There are so many things w/ this case that don't make sense.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by KindraLore
Ok, let's say he took off. No warning but it would had to have been planned. Afterall, if you are going to disappear (leave your job, everything behind), you would need a good amount of money right?

That means planning. Hiding cash away. Being able to walk away from your KIDS. I dont know the man but from what I have seen, he doesn't look the type to walk away from his children. Anyway, say he did. How much cash would you need?

In this planning you have to know the police will be called, maybe lots of media. You could be found out. This sort of thing you would mull through over and over. Would it be worth it? What if you are found out and the whole world knows you just duped everyone and walked away? Is it worth it? Especially when there are other ways out.

Again with the money. How much would you feel comfortable walking away from your whole life with? You need money to survive for awhile. Travel, food, eating, a place to stay. Then always paranoid someone will find out. I dunno. Seems a bit far fetched to me with this guy's history and what we know about him.

As you all have pointed out, anything could and can happen, but for me, it just doesn't fit. [/*]

I don't know the answers. Ask Beth Smith, who was married to a preacher! She got a job for money....

[RainyNiteNTx]

This article says a coworker saw him leaving the parking lot - this was the first I heard of this - Christine said a coworker saw him go to his car and that he was parked on the street.

http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/case.cfm?id=53372

[SeattleEddie]

Originally posted by Nellie


I think at this point I want to try to stop speculating about this case. I don't know what to think and I think about every scenario has been discussed and I don't want to come across as being cold. I hope we have some new news soon and I hope it's good news. We just don't have very many clues at this point. [/*]

I would agree with that; I think everyone has gone over just about any possible scenario and after a while, it's just a matter of waiting for news because it's the same old info being picked over and over and over.

I live in West Seattle and have been a member of the West Seattle Blog ever since it started a few years ago. For some reason, a bunch of esty people came over to that blog and hijacked a thread, talking about all the other esty people who were making donations, etc. There are over 300 posts on that thread, almost all from esty people who thought the donations and attitude on the esty board were out of hand. I don't know why they decided to come to the West Seattle Blog, but all the regular West Seattle folks bolted when the conversation got so bizarre.

It doesn't have anything to do with this Nicholas' disappearance, but I find the esty people odd. Likewise, the Seattle church Mars Hill, which the Francisco's belonged to, is odd. And this whole case is odd. One thing I've learned, at least, is not to get involved with esty! I had never heard of it before.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by KindraLore
And yes, there are accounts set up for most of the men I mentioned, maybe not for actual support for the family but for PIs, reward, continuing the search for their loved ones. This man is a little different because they were not well off and he does have two small children and a pregnant wife. [/*]

I think the funds to help find him are understandable.
I think even funds to help the family out if he was missing longer would be understandable.
But how do you determine within just a few days that he isn't coming home and we won't be able to pay the bills, so funds are needed very quickly? He could have walked in the door at any minute.
I just think that's why it's so odd for people.
Is it because this involves a woman with small children?
Do men with small children get a fund set up when their wife is missing?
Did Beth Smith's husband? I recall him having two small children at home still.
Is it because she didn't have a job? Is her internet business dismissed?
I don't know. I would not have felt nearly as odd about the fund if it had been set up after a couple of weeks instead of days. Doing it that quickly is like saying they don't expect him back.

[desmom]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
This article says a coworker saw him leaving the parking lot - this was the first I heard of this - Christine said a coworker saw him go to his car and that he was parked on the street.

http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/case.cfm?id=53372 [/*]

It also says he was reported missing on Feb. 13; his car was discovered on Feb 18 and the car had been parked at the complex for three days. Where was it for the other 2 days?

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
This article says a coworker saw him leaving the parking lot - this was the first I heard of this - Christine said a coworker saw him go to his car and that he was parked on the street.

http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/case.cfm?id=53372 [/*]

hmmmm.....

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
In planning to walk away...maybe there was no planning but an act of desperation.

Trouble can lead a person down a very dangerous path when there are no options left except one and that is to run. [/*]

Well there is a realization that you would NEED money. In that aspect, eventually you would out yourself. If this guy with a good job and family just decided (no planning) to up and leave with hardly any money, what would he do next.

Seems you would need to be in a desperate state of mind to make that decision and if you did, others would know that you have gotten to that state. You would not be happy-go-lucky one day and poof the next.

Now you are on the run, in the blink of an eye and your story is all over the media. What would you do? You cant just go apply for a job. You may be recognized. You cant call family members for help. They would tell LE.

Doesn't sound very smart and if thats the deal, he would be found very soon. Not to mention, he left his car, so he would be hoofing it so to speak.

[Danette44]

Originally posted by KindraLore
I'd just like to chime in here again if I may.

First of all, if you use a PayPal account, yes there is a "trail" so to speak. Your accounts are tied to bank accounts, credit cards, or whatever you fund it with. I doubt very seriously that she would fund his paypal account in some scam. It would be easily found out because even if it was funded with funds that people sent, it would be tied to her account or an account with her info.

Secondly, this family probably does need real financial help here so I think (IMO) its really beating a dead horse for going on and on about the donation situation.

Its been stated time and time again that concerned friends, public, etc.. set it up and if she is in NEED (with two small children to feed and have a roof over their heads) then so be it. I have seen plenty of cases where there are accounts set up for the families of missing people. In fact, it ends up being the norm and there is not a thing wrong with it.

Ok, so it happened really soon after he went missing. She did not come out and say "give me money, my husband is missing". Again, its been said that others stated her financial concerns. When bad things happen to good people, others usually rally 'round (which again, is a good thing).

I personally doubt he just took off. From everything that has been said about his character, even if he decided all the sudden with no previous signs that he did not want to be married anymore, he would also have to dupe his whole family (i.e. mother, sisters and everyone that ever cared about him) for his self serving ways.

On the last note, there have been MANY men that disappear without a trace and no evidence as to where they are. Examples include but are not limited to John Glasgow, Brian Shaffer, Matthew Wilson, Kyle Fleischmann, Justin Gaines, Joshua Szostak, Nicholas Garza and Michael Barbiere. Not one clue as to where any of them are and there are many more like them. All of them more than likely the victim of foul play by some random stranger. So its not uncommon. Not common, but certainly not uncommon in this day and time.

Respectfully,
KindraLore [/*]

Those are all college kids except for John Glasgow, big difference, and a few of them were leaving bars. I respect what you are saying but, this is a place where we are "allowed", to voice our opinon's and thats all they are are opinon's just as your is. Christine has blasted alot of posters on other web sites for voicing what they think could of happen, while she swears her husband is the best and would never do this or that to her - it's apparent he wasn't that perfect husband afterall when she open his "PayPal", account. She told this to the news media, so of course it's going to make people think that perhaps he did leave on his own. I do pray for his safe return and nothing bad has happen to him. JMOO

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by desmom


It also says he was reported missing on Feb. 13; his car was discovered on Feb 18 and the car had been parked at the complex for three days. Where was it for the other 2 days? [/*]

I wonder if they have checked the mileage on that car or checked how much gas it had in it when parked.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Danette44


Those are all college kids except for John Glasgow, big difference, and a few of them were leaving bars. I respect what you are saying but, this is a place where we are "allowed", to voice our opinon's and thats all they are are opinon's just as your is. Christine has blasted alot of posters on other web sites for voicing what they think could of happen, while she swears her husband is the best and would never do this or that to her - it's apparent he wasn't that perfect husband afterall when she open his "PayPal", account. She told this to the news media, so of course it's going to make people think that perhaps he did leave on his own. I do pray for his safe return and nothing bad has happen to him. JMOO [/*]

And I believe respectfully that I am allowed to voice MY opinion as well.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by KindraLore


Well there is a realization that you would NEED money. In that aspect, eventually you would out yourself. If this guy with a good job and family just decided (no planning) to up and leave with hardly any money, what would he do next.

Seems you would need to be in a desperate state of mind to make that decision and if you did, others would know that you have gotten to that state. You would not be happy-go-lucky one day and poof the next.

Now you are on the run, in the blink of an eye and your story is all over the media. What would you do? You cant just go apply for a job. You may be recognized. You cant call family members for help. They would tell LE.

Doesn't sound very smart and if thats the deal, he would be found very soon. Not to mention, he left his car, so he would be hoofing it so to speak. [/*]

But Kindra, if you followed the Beth Smith dissappearance, it is exactly the way it happened. She left in the middle of a Christian conference she had gone to with a girlfriend. Her friend had spent the night in a motel with her and half the morning at the conference with her and drove miles and miles with her....and saw no signs of distress Then she just gets up out of her seat and goes to the bathroom, but instead just keeps walking right out that door and to a bus station. She didn't have a car either. There are other ways to get around. He could have taken some type of public transportation just like Beth did. He could have worked all day and not shown any distress to others.....just like Beth's freind didn't see any distress. And Beth got a job, so I guess you CAN just go apply for a job! When they found her she didn't even want to go back home even though she had 2 small children.

Now I don't know what has happened to this man, but I can't dismiss that he just took off. Because it DOES happen....even if it makes no sense.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Over on WS they are saying he had a LinkedIn account in addition to his Etsy business. How can Christine or LE say that there is no association with anyone in that complex without knowing all of his online activities or knowing all of his work contacts and friends of friends of work contacts.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by desmom


It also says he was reported missing on Feb. 13; his car was discovered on Feb 18 and the car had been parked at the complex for three days. Where was it for the other 2 days? [/*]

good question...

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Nellie


But Kindra, if you followed the Beth Smith dissappearance, it is exactly the way it happened. She left in the middle of a Christian conference she had gone to with a girlfriend. Her friend had spent the night in a motel with her and half the morning at the conference with her and drove miles and miles with her....and saw no signs of distress Then she just gets up out of her seat and goes to the bathroom, but instead just keeps walking right out that door and to a bus station. She didn't have a car either. There are other ways to get around. He could have taken some type of public transportation just like Beth did. He could have worked all day and not shown any distress to others.....just like Beth's freind didn't see any distress. And Beth got a job, so I guess you CAN just go apply for a job! When they found her she didn't even want to go back home even though she had 2 small children.

Now I don't know what has happened to this man, but I can't dismiss that he just took off. Because it DOES happen....even if it makes no sense. [/*]

Did she ever go home? (sorry off topic but I never knew what happened to her).

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Nellie


But Kindra, if you followed the Beth Smith dissappearance, it is exactly the way it happened. She left in the middle of a Christian conference she had gone to with a girlfriend. Her friend had spent the night in a motel with her and half the morning at the conference with her and drove miles and miles with her....and saw no signs of distress Then she just gets up out of her seat and goes to the bathroom, but instead just keeps walking right out that door and to a bus station. She didn't have a car either. There are other ways to get around. He could have taken some type of public transportation just like Beth did. He could have worked all day and not shown any distress to others.....just like Beth's freind didn't see any distress. And Beth got a job, so I guess you CAN just go apply for a job! When they found her she didn't even want to go back home even though she had 2 small children.

Now I don't know what has happened to this man, but I can't dismiss that he just took off. Because it DOES happen....even if it makes no sense. [/*]

Nellie: Although I have seen you guys reference it here, I don't know the case but will read up on it.

Yes it does happen. Yes the men that I mentioned were mostly college kids BUT the fact remains is that they all disappeared without a trace.

I guess I am just trying to put a different aspect on the case than what is being discussed so far. While I understand your ideas, opinions and concerns about the money, etc.. I think something else happened.

I believe that the car being moved over and over may be proof of that. Maybe the person was making sure it took awhile before the car drew attention. If it was in the same spot too long, it would be more noticeable.

[elf]

I have never heard why they resigned from there church, has anyone else heard or know why they did? They had very recently resigned possibly a clue/possibly not.

[SeattleEddie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Over on WS they are saying he had a LinkedIn account in addition to his Etsy business. How can Christine or LE say that there is no association with anyone in that complex without knowing all of his online activities or knowing all of his work contacts and friends of friends of work contacts. [/*]

Great point! How would anyone know where he did or did not have associations? How could anyone be so sure that he did nor didn't know someone at the complex?

[Nellie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Did she ever go home? (sorry off topic but I never knew what happened to her). [/*]

She did...eventually they got divorced.
It really reminds me of this case.

[Nellie]

Originally posted by KindraLore


Nellie: Although I have seen you guys reference it here, I don't know the case but will read up on it.

Yes it does happen. Yes the men that I mentioned were mostly college kids BUT the fact remains is that they all disappeared without a trace.

I guess I am just trying to put a different aspect on the case than what is being discussed so far. While I understand your ideas, opinions and concerns about the money, etc.. I think something else happened.

I believe that the car being moved over and over may be proof of that. Maybe the person was making sure it took awhile before the car drew attention. If it was in the same spot too long, it would be more noticeable. [/*]

Oh, I understand Kindra. And I go both ways...either took off or something bad happened to him.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on what you think may have happened if he didn't take off on his own? Do you think he's still in that area? Any thoughts? Christine said his laptop and cell phone are missing. Any thoughts on that? Do you think someone in that complex are holding him and if they are...what for? No ransom has been demanded, that we know of.

I'd be interested in any thoughts you have. None of us know what has happened at this point and are praying for a good outcome.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie


Great point! How would anyone know where he did or did not have associations? How could anyone be so sure that he did nor didn't know someone at the complex? [/*]

Exactly!!! My family might think they know who my work contacts are, but I can guarantee you I talk to and email with and see associates that they would have no idea of their name. Same with my personal computer - besides this forum I hang out on a decorating board. Unless somebody searched my home computer and my work computer, they could not begin to determine whether I had an association with somebody.

[elf]

Same here no one family, coworkers, friends would have any idea who I would have contact with I am on several message boards and sites.

[KindraLore]

Originally posted by Nellie


Oh, I understand Kindra. And I go both ways...either took off or something bad happened to him.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on what you think may have happened if he didn't take off on his own? Do you think he's still in that area? Any thoughts? Christine said his laptop and cell phone are missing. Any thoughts on that? Do you think someone in that complex are holding him and if they are...what for? No ransom has been demanded, that we know of.

I'd be interested in any thoughts you have. None of us know what has happened at this point and are praying for a good outcome. [/*]

I doubt anyone is holding him for ransom. I am not familiar with this area, as far as being crime ridden or otherwise. Maybe he was accosted, carjacked, etc. As far as the laptop, if it was new, it can go for a good amount of money. They are expensive. Some thugs, a robbery, something went wrong. Who knows.

Maybe drugs? I dont know. Hard to say. If something like that happened, who knows if we will ever find out what happened to him. I hope whatever did, his family will find out and have some peace. I hate to say it, but I personally doubt he is still alive. I do and always hope otherwise for any missing person though.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by elf
Same here no one family, coworkers, friends would have any idea who I would have contact with I am on several message boards and sites. [/*]

It would be like looking for a needle in a haystack in order to determine if anybody even remotely associated with that complex (people who live there - friends of people who live there) was associated with anyone Nicholas knew.