Odds and Ends, Pt. I

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
They have changed the front page and moved some things. Pete Bosaks Q&A is working now, I was able to post a question. Cool. Maybe PB will figure out what happened to his 'anniversary article' too.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 <Snip>
Wish I lived in Centre County again that I could also pick and choose on your forms. I don't know what my votes today in Mifflin County will do to help. Is Tom Corbett's job up too? I thought I saw there was someone running against him. Well, I did my civic duty too...though not in Centre County. Corbett is running unopposed in the Rep. primary. Morganelli is running unopposed in the Dem. primary. I fully expect to see a spirited contest for AG...starting tomorrow and lasting until the Nov. election. Should be interesting. MOO

[J. J. in Phila]

LW, there were numerous claims of racism against RFG over the years, usually from disgruntled parties involved in cases. The Sampson family wanted to sue him.

If we're talking about murder, someone could have bought into these claims, even if they are totally false.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


Any idea who the public defender(s) were who were on the case after Manchester left, and just before the 'disappearance'? That is where I would look for the answer.

Any idea how much info would have been shared back and forth at that given time regarding the Glick case and RG's intentions, or are they so hidden from defense, nobody knows what the prosecutor is researching?

If the trip was to research the Glick case, I would like to know
(a) who 'else' had knowledge of it, and
(*) did he research the case down in Sunbury at the courthouse.

Although we have heard of reports re:Shickellamy Park sightings, I don't know if they were ever actually verified to be 'fact'.
If he had been in Sunbury to the Courthouse, left there and pulled off at the Park, according to the map it is just above Sunbury on the way back to Lewisburg. If he pulled off for any reason before his return back, maybe out of his car at the time, maybe to just enjoy the view, or to think, if he was possibly followed, is it possible for an 'altercation' to have taken place there, with possibly no one to see a struggle?

The laptop would have likely been necessary to take down any case info and would likely have been in the car if he just got out to enjoy the view. I have never been to Shikellamy Park, so dunno how secluded or busy it is.


LW, first, I'm not clear if the case was ever in court, but the records would have been in the hospital.

Second, RFG could not just walk into a hospital, or another DA's office, and demand to see records; prior arrangements (and possibly a subpoena) would have been necessary.

Third, If RFG needed records, it would be easier to have them sent to him (possibly after a subpoena).

Fourth, why on earth would RFG need to do so secretly? If he had to go some place to get something case related, why not just say so?

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks <Snip>
Any idea who the public defender(s) were who were on the case after Manchester left, and just before the 'disappearance'? That is where I would look for the answer.

I posted what was in the online docket, before. Manchester's petition to withdraw was granted on or about 1/5/05. The PD requested (why?), and was granted, leave from representation, and Edward Blanarik was appointed to represent AVM on or about 1/10/05. On or about 1/24/05, Karen Muir was appointed second chair. And the scheduled (4/4/05) jury selection was scuttled.

The online record then goes blank, until the omnibus pre-trial motion was filed, on or about 4/1/05. As I understand it, that is supposed to be the 'kitchen sink'...the 'mother' of all pre-trial, anti-trial defenses. A curious date, in light of other assertions. It would be interesting to know the text of the omnibus motion. But I do not see any of this as necessarily material.

Foreign nationals...illegal aliens...a difficult (if not impossible) task for a borough PD to investigate. My curiosity was piqued when TG asked about the INS van in Lewisburg...and KA referred to a federal connection being presented. This is but one reason why TC should have stepped in, big time, long ago...but did not.

All JMOO

[Serendipitous1]

Just as sure as I am sitting here, typing away on my keyboard, Tom Corbett's political life is coming to an end, unless and until he finds the 'balls' to get 'heavy' on Ray Gricar's case. Come November, God willing, I will help replace this short-sighted, limp-dicked impediment. MOO

[Cloudbuster]

S1 can you find room for another? These dates are interesting.
http://www.courts.state.pa.us/OpPosting/Superior/out/A25041_06.pdf
May 24, 2005, Appellant filed a motion to dismiss criminal information ..... Deputy Attorney General Madeira when he said that he was unaware of the ...
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=715
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Bekes was being taken from the courthouse to the jail in Bellefonte, he yelled at Madeira as he was speaking to the press, saying, "How do you sleep at night?"

"My response was 'I sleep very well at night, thank you,' " Madeira said.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2000/10/10-02-00tdc/10-02-00dnews-7.asp

http://heartlandvalues.blogspot.com/2005/06/trials-begin-for-6-prison-guards.html

[J. J. in Phila]

First, I withheld my vote for TC.

Second, maybe someone should ask Morganelli directly.

Third, an Immigration Services truck might not be too unusual, considering there are two federal prisons relatively close.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
First, I withheld my vote for TC.

Second, maybe someone should ask Morganelli directly.

Third, an Immigration Services truck might not be too unusual, considering there are two federal prisons relatively close. [/*]

I changed parties and Morganelli got my vote.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks
Just FYI, Yesterday, day after primary, the local area began being plastered with signs 'vote for TC'. At the time I thought there should instead be a sign asking 'TC, Where is Ray Gricar?'

I read yesterday that there is little 'gap' in the polls, with Corbett at 37%, Morganelli at 34% with the rest, uncommitted. Reason given, Morganelli's name known mostly in the east. Guess it's time to head 'West' again, this time with the opponent's name, and saturate that area with signs. PA hopefully will soon see it's FIRST democrat Attorney General. Like you, I will do everything I can to see that it happens. I have never been so adamant to see justice served, as I have been in this case. A win for TC, is a loss for RG, a man who DID care to make a difference.

No reason, not now, or ever, for TC and the AG to not step in and take over the RG case other than he didn't want the mess it could create in his own office, that 'can of worms' that I still think someone may have contemplated prior to disappearance.

I will be elated when I see someone in office who WILL open the 'can of worms' and do everything possible to answer the State question.........what happened to the PA representative, Ray Gricar? I noticed Morganelli had been president of the PDAA, so maybe then we will then be able to see that organization included in a task force.
JMO This is a year where Democrats of all sorts can ride the national 'coat tails' of change. But first, work on Morganelli. Make RG's plight an issue in this year's race for AG...in every debate...and in every corner of PA. Force TG's (and Morganelli's) 'hand'.

In my district, a candidate for Congress thought he had the primary election in the bag....but he lost, big time, because 'the people' were not persuaded by him or his endorsements. Power to the people!!

BTW, the PDAA has shown itself to be a limp-dicked organization, regarding RG's disappearance.

All, JMOO

[Serendipitous1]

Allow me to clarify. TC has done many good things for Pennsylvanians...and for that I am truly grateful. But he has never (and I mean not once) done anything, publicly at least, to truly address Ray Gricar's disappearance. A state (my state) not knowing what happened to one of its important representatives (and all county DAs are important)....is simply unacceptable. What does Morganelli (and TC) have to say about that? MOO

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


Wish I lived in Centre County again that I could also pick and choose on your forms. I don't know what my votes today in Mifflin County will do to help. Is Tom Corbett's job up too? I thought I saw there was someone running against him.

Other than Ray's case, I feel he has done a good job with all the drug busts going on, starting to get a grip on the wasteful spending in the government jobs, but he really needs to do something about John Murtha. I just don't know how that guy get away with most of the things he pulls. :shrug: [/*]

SJ I think Murtha is secretly being investagated by donations:
http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/pages/IPWdonate.htm

[J. J. in Phila]

Murtha has had ethic problems literally for decades, but these things are NOT related to RFG.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster


SJ I think Murtha is secretly being investagated by donations:
http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/pages/IPWdonate.htm [/*]

Can't Doyle and Brady think for themselves? Do they have to play "follow the leader" like children on a playground? Wonder why the people don't vote all 3 of them out of office and get free thinkers in there. The more I read about Murtha, the more I think he sounds like the childhood bully who owned the playground.

Clinton and Obama should NOT kiss up to the guy! Who does he think he is?

[sherrijean981]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cloudbuster


SJ I think Murtha is secretly being investagated by donations:
http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/pages/IPWdonate.htm [/*][/QUOTE

I read all the articles you sent. You really need to clean your email files out girl! My comments keep coming back to me.

I haven't been on the forum but a few minutes a day. My Ggrandson has been with me for a week and he kept me busy. He went home earlier tonight so I have some time to read more and research more.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks


If this headline is any indication, Morganelli is off to a good head start.

April 23, 2008

DA John Morganelli Garners Just Under 1.6 Million Votes in Democratic Primary Election OutPacing Corbett By Almost 900,000 Votes

http://www.johnmorganelli.com/

Link attached for those who want to make certain the RG case IS an issue; contact info is there.
I agree, the RG case MUST be an issue in this race.

JMO [/*]

Thanks for the link. I sent my email to make DA Ray Gricar part of his campaign.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
Murtha has had ethic problems literally for decades, but these things are NOT related to RFG. [/*]

JJ Murtha is involved in the NDIC that has software programs that even DA's can use and have. Ray took his laptop to a meeting IMO and it later surfaced. If nothing was important on it why even take it? If someone stole it which I highly doubt then why would they want it? The NDIC gives the areas DRUG leads and you must not forget that Rays office started the heroin drug investagation that later ended in the hands of the attorney generals office. Now could Rays office have gotton their lead from the NDIC? YOU BET!

Hernandez, who joined the agency in 2004 after a 27-year DEA career, points to the center's ability to cull information from seized evidence , including ledgers, phone and real estate records, computers and cell phones , and funnel that data to investigators and prosecutors, helping them build cases against suspects.

http://www.cjpf.org/newsarticles/bucks_county_6_30_07.htm

NDIC has conducted hundreds of document and computer exploitation missions for domestic and international law enforcement agencies since its inception in 1993, and shares its proprietary RAID software with other government agencies and the military services.

http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/prs/07irqconvt/07irqcnvt.htm

Casey goes to bat for NDIC
By Mike Faher, Tribune-Democrat

September 27, 2007

http://casey.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/?id=5C8262D3-16C4-4540-BDC4-48699*707DE0

what kind of man are you dealing with?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3187575&page=1


In 2005, the NDIC was a principal contributor to the U.S. Money Laundering Threat Assessment, the first government-wide anaylsis of money laundering in the United States.

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3426get_murtha.html

In 2006, the NDIC conducted 60 Doc Ex missions to investigate illegal drug trafficking, money laundering, and terrorism threatening U.S. national security. In 2006, NDIC also conducted a series of missions in support of Operation Twin Oceans, successfully raiding a drug-trafficking organization that transported multi-ton quantities of cocaine for at least five drug rings. The total value of the seizures of property, ships, vehicles, and bank accounts, is estimated at $70 million.

http://www.calea.org/Online/newsletter/No71/NDIC.htm

http://www.cicad.oas.org/oid/NEW/Information/Observer/Observer4_2003/RAIDEng.doc.
http://www.customscorruption.com/renojuly32000.htm


MOO

[Cloudbuster]

JJ the possibility exists that RG may have discovered something that stems within the drug investagation that pertained to some high level corruption and might have been prepared to expose it. At that time Bush was threatening to close the NDIC as in previous years 3 that I know of. Now tell me how that would look in Mr M's back yard on a facility that has had many past problems to begin with? For Mr M that NDIC is personal between him and Bush period!!! Whatever if it was possible that Ray might have been about to expose something like that--that something may have tied DIRECTLY into the NDIC and God knows we can't have that. So please do not even tell me thats not possible cause anything like that is. I really even wonder if Ray went to meet someone from the AG's office???? Possible firework's meeting? Or a possible setup? We also know with Ungards case that 43 vechicles have managed to POOOOF disappear just like the records of investagations, vanished without a trace and just like Ray POOOF gone without a trace. Can I say this happened? NO I can't but I am allowed to plunder on the possibility right?
JMHOO
That laptop yeilds the key in every way. I will also bet that hard drive was not Ray's and they can't prove it is. I think Ray was tooo smart for that and I think the real hard drive is hidden somewhere by Ray himself.:cuss:

[J. J. in Phila]

Murtha provided the funding for the NDIC, but he does not administer it.

Considering the lack of any business interests that Murtha has in Centre County (or in the central part of the state), it is unlikely at best and impossible at worse. You could basically say "The possibility exists that RG may have discovered something that stems within the drug investagation that pertained to some high level corruption and might have been prepared to expose it. and that person is _____." You could fill in the blank from anyone from GW Bush down a council member in Showshoe!

Look, I loathe Murtha with a passion, but there is no linkage between him and RFG. They don't even live in the same congressional district.

[Chump#7]

J.J.:

You could fill in the blank from anyone from GW Bush down a council member in Showshoe!

You got that right.

This is what is so difficult about this angle. The number of prominent businessmen involved in drug trafficking and the politicians that knowingly turn the other way is a rather lengthy list in Centre County alone (hell, College Avenue). Gah, pick one.

I have no faith or hope that anyone would ever tip that apple cart.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Chump#7
J.J.: You got that right. This is what is so difficult about this angle. The number of prominent businessmen involved in drug trafficking and the politicians that knowingly turn the other way is a rather lengthy list in Centre County alone (hell, College Avenue). Gah, pick one.

I have no faith or hope that anyone would ever tip that apple cart. MOO - I think you are wrong about that. And if you have personal knowledge about criminal acts, including public corruption, I encourage you to spell it out for LE (naming names, dates, events, etc.)...even if anonymously...even if it does not pertain to RG's plight.

And the state's effort (or lack thereof) in the investigation of RG's disappearance should be made an issue in this year's campaign for AG. I would like to know, specifically, what TC has done...and I would like to know, specifically, what JM would do, if elected.

JM is in a unique position to make RG's plight a state issue this year. And based on what I read on his campaign website, JM knows how to 'shake that tree'.
http://www.campaignsitebuilder.com/news/disp_news.asp?ID=9456&siteid=178

[Cloudbuster]

S1 I agree with your post and I sure hope JM shakes that tree hard.
I suppose you could fill in the blank as indicated but for me that blank was filled in for me by a strange occurence that can't be ignored and it has even lead me to the name of the MW. It's no longer important to me if it's not believed. I just know that some things are unexplainable. :rose:

[Chump#7]

S1:

MOO - I think you are wrong about that. And if you have personal knowledge about criminal acts, including public corruption, I encourage you to spell it out for LE (naming names, dates, events, etc.)...even if anonymously...even if it does not pertain to RG's plight.

Sure, in a perfect world with crazy notions of 'justice' and things like that, but I certainly don't know anything that LE doesn't already know (suspicions of local establishment involved in illegal activities). It's just a big fat eye roll, really.

Bottom line: Only a private investigator with no attachments to PA will ever get anywhere with this case (if foul play is the angle). And they should tread very carefully.

I can hope that this is already in the works.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Chump#7
S1:



Sure, in a perfect world with crazy notions of 'justice' and things like that, but I certainly don't know anything that LE doesn't already know (suspicions of local establishment involved in illegal activities). It's just a big fat eye roll, really.

Bottom line: Only a private investigator with no attachments to PA will ever get anywhere with this case (if foul play is the angle). And they should tread very carefully.

I can hope that this is already in the works. [/*]

I would guess that Tony has already been there - done that.

[Chump#7]

Politigal:

I would guess that Tony has already been there - done that.

Probably to some extent, who knows? Sounds expensive. It grosses me out that he'd even have to, but ... there you go.

I recognize that I'm jaded on the whole area (Central PA), but with good reasons.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Chump#7
S1: Sure, in a perfect world with crazy notions of 'justice' and things like that, but I certainly don't know anything that LE doesn't already know (suspicions of local establishment involved in illegal activities). It's just a big fat eye roll, really.

Bottom line: Only a private investigator with no attachments to PA will ever get anywhere with this case (if foul play is the angle). And they should tread very carefully. I can hope that this is already in the works. I understand, but I think you are wrong. 'Suspicions' come with 'reasons'. Good reasons can foster leads and help to build a prima facie case. And we should never assume what LE 'knows'. I was just reminded today how many promising cases get rejected by DAs for want of sufficient evidence to convict.

We live in an imperfect world. That makes it doubly important for citizens to report criminal and suspicious activity. We are all in this together.

All JMOO

[Cloudbuster]

Sherrijean has ask that I let you know she hasn't been on because of a possible hard drive crash. So it might be a little while.

[Serendipitous1]

I was in D.C. last night to attend the candlelight vigil at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial...honoring the LE community and paying special tribute to officers across the nation who have given their lives in the performance of their duty. Here is a good account of the program:
http://www.officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/Frank-Borelli--Vigil-is-a-Moving-Event/1$41385

MOO - To Lt. (retired) Borelli’s observation that the “simple ‘reporting’ of the events...can never convey the tone, emotion and importance of the Candlelight Vigil”, I would add my own humbling experience of having shared this solemn occasion with many hundreds of LE officers and surviving family members from all over the US (and beyond).

It was awesome. And, of course, the parallels to Ray Gricar's case were inescapable...from the US Attorney General's keynote address...through the candlelighting ceremony, to the tune of "Bring Him Home"...to the roll call of fallen heroes.

The event (with slide-show photos):
http://www.nleomf.org/media/press/CV_May1308.htm

News video - 20th Annual Candlelight Vigil Honors Fallen Police Members:
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0508/519463.html

The National Law Enforcement Officers Monument website:
http://www.nleomf.org/

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks
Thanks for the links to your experience.
It certainly would have been an awesome experience to be a part of, and one, I am certain, that would lead me to make many comparisons. We don't have an AG speaking out nor has there been one candlelight vigil held in over three years.

Reading of the thousands slain in the line of duty makes me think all the more, that whatever happened to RG was personal. None of these thousands were hidden so why can't we find RG, whether dead or alive? It's obviously a case of 'hiding' and IMO, that would limit it to someone personal to RG.
JMO Tom Corbett's 'baggage' makes him unfit to be our top LE officer. Any simpleton could do what he has done since being elected. Hell, even I could do what TC has done in 3 years of lack-lustre performance. The telling question (regarding Ray Gricar) is, like so many others, one that he has left to his underling to respond to. Corbett is not AG material...nor is he gubernatorial material. He is just a hack with a flack. And we have helped to pay both their sorry-*** saleries. MOO

[J. J. in Phila]

TC hasn't actually been charged with anything, which is more than I can say about one of his predecessors.:biggrin:

I hate to say it, but at this level, none of this is new or earth shaking.

[sherrijean981]

I thought this quote sounded perfect for our forum. Received in an email to me today.


"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased."
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~

[Cloudbuster]

What is earth shaking is TC NOT shaking the EARTH to find Mr Gricar! WHY TC WHY? I would like to to see whats hiding behind curtain number 2 out of 3 curtains???
MOO

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
TC hasn't actually been charged with anything, which is more than I can say about one of his predecessors. I hate to say it, but at this level, none of this is new or earth shaking. I am not talking about impeaching TC...although there is still time for that to happen (see the Ohio AG's scandal-induced resignation). I am talking about scuttling TC's political future...a just desert for publicly turning his back on Ray Gricar...by using every impugnable matter available.

The stakes are high at this level...and JM is right to exploit every shaky/shady decision hidden in the AG's closet. TC thinks JM should remain a DA. I think TC should go back to being an ADA. MOO

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
I was in D.C. last night to attend the candlelight vigil at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial...honoring the LE community and paying special tribute to officers across the nation who have given their lives in the performance of their duty. Here is a good account of the program:
http://www.officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/Frank-Borelli--Vigil-is-a-Moving-Event/1$41385

MOO - To Lt. (retired) Borelli’s observation that the “simple ‘reporting’ of the events...can never convey the tone, emotion and importance of the Candlelight Vigil”, I would add my own humbling experience of having shared this solemn occasion with many hundreds of LE officers and surviving family members from all over the US (and beyond).

It was awesome. And, of course, the parallels to Ray Gricar's case were inescapable...from the US Attorney General's keynote address...through the candlelighting ceremony, to the tune of "Bring Him Home"...to the roll call of fallen heroes.

The event (with slide-show photos):
http://www.nleomf.org/media/press/CV_May1308.htm

News video - 20th Annual Candlelight Vigil Honors Fallen Police Members:
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0508/519463.html

The National Law Enforcement Officers Monument website:
http://www.nleomf.org/ [/*]


Thanks for sharing your experience. Very sad ...that we have lost so many heroes..(including Mr. Gricar)...

Three words on this website touched my heart...


Respect.
Honor.
Remember.

Is there ANYONE out there (besides US) that respects ..honors and remembers Mr. Gricar?

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by day2day
Thanks for sharing your experience. Very sad ...that we have lost so many heroes..(including Mr. Gricar)... Three words on this website touched my heart... Respect. Honor. Remember. Is there ANYONE out there (besides US) that respects ..honors and remembers Mr. Gricar? Unknown...beyond TG's public appeals. And, sadly, I think that the names of the Gricar and Luna types will not appear on the national memorial either.

We know what will happen with TC being re-elected. JM has been floating some private assurances of what he will do, if elected. But I need to see it in a public position statement. MOO

[Serendipitous1]

Does anybody know why 'Hatchey McClatchy' deep-sixed the Gricar coverage in the CDT?

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Does anybody know why 'Hatchey McClatchy' deep-sixed the Gricar coverage in the CDT? [/*]

I've wondered the same thing. I keep checking to see if there are any changes...but nope, nuttin' honey.

It's obvious, they consider Gricar dead in the water.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Politigal
I've wondered the same thing. I keep checking to see if there are any changes...but nope, nuttin' honey. It's obvious, they consider Gricar dead in the water.Then *here* is where the blogger, PB, might actually serve some useful purpose. What saith PB...why has 'Hatchey McClatchy' deep-sixed the Gricar coverage in the CDT?

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Then *here* is where the blogger, PB, might actually serve some useful purpose. What saith PB...why has 'Hatchey McClatchy' deep-sixed the Gricar coverage in the CDT? And what do you (PB) propose to do about it?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Does anybody know why 'Hatchey McClatchy' deep-sixed the Gricar coverage in the CDT? [/*]

The other Q & A boards are down. I-99 has one question on it from 5/12.

But, I'd also assume that a lack of anything new might have something to do with it.

[Tree_of_Life]

Originally posted by Politigal


dead in the water. [/*]


Literally?

[Serendipitous1]

TC is heading for San Antonio and his old alma mater, Politigal. http://www.stmarytx.edu/news/print.php?go=event&id=1761&print=1

I wonder if Harley-har-de-har-har went along. I don't suppose we could get you to keep him/them there. Just kidding. Hopefully, TC will get as little notice there as he got last Sat. at Bloomsburg U's commencement..."speaker Tom Corbett, Pennsylvania's Attorney General, gives a speach [sic] focusing on the increasing rate of change in modern life." http://www.bloomu.edu/today/news/0805/Corbett02.jpg

The increasing rate of change in modern life? WTH? MOO

[Serendipitous1]

Good 'luck' St. Mary's law graduates. You could not have picked a worse commencement speaker. MOO

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks <Snip>
Do you have any idea if this guy is related to TC? TC was a Philadelphia attorney, and this one also hails from Philadelphia.
http://www.svherald.com/articles/2008/02/25/news/doc47c27a3c6d168349143479.txt Nah...Nicholas Corbett has too much 'moxey' to be related to the 'gutless coward'. And anyway, I believe TC is a Pittsburgh area product...go figure. MOO

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
TC is heading for San Antonio and his old alma mater, Politigal. http://www.stmarytx.edu/news/print.php?go=event&id=1761&print=1

I wonder if Harley-har-de-har-har went along. I don't suppose we could get you to keep him/them there. Just kidding. Hopefully, TC will get as little notice there as he got last Sat. at Bloomsburg U's commencement..."speaker Tom Corbett, Pennsylvania's Attorney General, gives a speach [sic] focusing on the increasing rate of change in modern life." http://www.bloomu.edu/today/news/0805/Corbett02.jpg

The increasing rate of change in modern life? WTH? MOO [/*]

sorry, I'm headed to OK to go camping :)

http://www.turnerfallspark.com/park%20info.htm

[Serendipitous1]

http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/624060.html

MOO - Oh, no, Richard Keener...you (and other rogue troopers) have only begun to suffer. Rogue troopers may have played a part in RG's disappearance. Tan (bland) cars get noticed too! Just saying, this aint over yet...not nearly.

[J. J. in Phila]

Before we get into the murder conspiracy that involves a third of the residents of Pennsylvania, let's try to at least lower the odds that this was a walkaway.

[Cinderella]

What are the odds of a family that cares so much and a soul mate giving up hope? That has baffled me. Did one of them do something?

I remember a Mrs. Smith who lost her son in the Vietnam War. She never gave up hope of finding him. The finally did find his remains. I can remember wearing the copper bracelet at that time with his name on it.

The family ruined the chances of Ray being found. They gave up. I hope that I have someone in my life that won't give up on me. You never give up on loved ones.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



Walkaway with no contact in over three years is right down there at the bottom of the list along with suicide with no body, IMO. Until someone steps in to investigate this as a case of foul play, there will be no answer. You have had three years to prove your theory, and the reason you can't is because, IMO, it isn't the truth.



Actually, quite the opposite. One thing that they do in the witness protection program is say, "Don't contact former associates." Now, I don't believe RFG is in WPP but, he would be at least vaguely familiar with the process. He would know it isn't a good idea to start calling old friends.

At best, he might be in contact with one or two people, that are not coming forward. Legally, they don't have to.

It actually would explain some elements of the case, including why MM and TC are not pushing for a stronger investigation. The only thing that kind of know is that if there was a "contact person" it wasn't LG or PEF, at least prior to October 2005.

The "contact person" could even be trying to misdirect the public into thinking this wasn't a walkaway.

First, eliminate or lessen the chances of walkaway. Then, and only then, focus exclusively on murder.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila <Snip>
First, eliminate or lessen the chances of walkaway. Then, and only then, focus exclusively on murder. A fool's errand, IMHO.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
A fool's errand, IMHO. [/*]

Quite the understatement...;)

[day2day]

Originally posted by logicworks



Walkaway with no contact in over three years is right down there at the bottom of the list along with suicide with no body, IMO. Until someone steps in to investigate this as a case of foul play, there will be no answer. You have had three years to prove your theory, and the reason you can't is because, IMO, it isn't the truth.

The evidence in no way points toward either walkaway or suicide having been the case, IMO. I tend to believe someone knew that ahead of time. The only way someone could know that is if it was known beforehand that a 'body', dead or alive, would not be found in the Lewisburg area (nor pointing toward any other area) where LE was being 'directed' toward and that it was well hidden.

IMO, walkaway is right down there with the other 'floating' theory, suicide, with both pointing directly away from the evidence rather than toward the evidence. That evidence is an abandoned vehicle with no prints evident from a disappeared district attorney, his laptop less hard drive, both found near the abandoned vehicle.

The evidence points toward foul play, not suicide, not walkaway. IMO, the real statistics are in the evidence and that evidence points toward foul play. Until this case is investigated as such, there will continue to be NO answer. The reason there is NO answer is because someone has and continues to depend upon the continuation of 'floating' theories that are in direct opposition of the evidence.

The investigation was immediately shut down by two factors, IMO.
1. DetZ being put in charge of the case. At whose command on Saturday morning?
2. A profiler proclaiming 'suicide'. Based on whose testimony?
Somewhere in there is the answer to who, IMO. [/*]


Great post LW!! And lets never forget the TIME spent with CB...(imo they would have known in say 4 minutes "if" she was onto something)

I would really REALLY love to know who assigned DETZ this case...

among other things...

jmo

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
A fool's errand, IMHO. [/*]

No, but possibly the best way to eliminate the possibility. In the more than three years, so far as has been published, LE never checked to see:

1. If a car was purchased in the area that was purchased under a pseudonym.

2. Except for PEF, where RFG's close friends, former SO's, and work associates were on 4/14-4/16/05.

The results might be:

1. There was none.

2. All of where RFG's close friends, former SO's, and work associates are accounted for.

Likewise, the results might be:

3. There was car, now missing that was purchased under a pseudonym (a car that is now missing).

4. Someone has a big enough gap in time to have driven to Lewisburg in the afternoon of 4/15/05 and picked up RFG.

I don't know which of these four possibilities is correct, but two of them would indicate walkaway.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day



Great post LW!! And lets never forget the TIME spent with CB...(imo they would have known in say 4 minutes "if" she was onto something)

I would really REALLY love to know who assigned DETZ this case...

among other things...

jmo [/*]

He picked up the telephone at the BPD. Seriously, he's the one that took the call.

That said, because of a "mistakement" in a material matter, I agree with SJ. I'd like to know where DZ was on 4/14-4/15/05.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


Are you saying DZ took the call at 11:30 pm, on Friday evening when PF called in to report RG missing? [/*]

According to what has been reported by PB, he took the initial report, which is why he became the "lead" officer.

[Cloudbuster]

I know this thread is titled odds and ends but what are the odds that it just so happened to be DET Z that answered at that time?:confused:

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks


Are you certain he was there at 11:30 pm, Friday evening, and that the initial report wasn't held over until Saturday morning?

In the chain of command, was the State immediately notified of the disappearance, and called in? WHO gave the 'beat' patrolman permission to enter RG's office on Saturday morning, and did he have RG's password to his computer?
Has DetZ been given a lie detector test? [/*]

Not sure where JKA's article is right now, but thought she mentioned that someone from the office went with DZ on Saturday morning to check the computer. I "assumed" it was PF since she was supposed to have been at the police station but don't know that as a fact.

Didn't they also put out a BOLO report after PF's initial call, early Saturday morning? Was it ever said who did answer that original call?

[Cloudbuster]

I found something interesting at least I think it is lol. Does the last name Meyer ring a bell? Take a look at this????



Carla Baron, the psychic consulted by the Bellefonte Police Department in their search for missing District Attorney Ray Gricar, was Carla Meyer when she lived in Lock Haven.

She and my daughter were on the same school trip to Paris, where Carla proved fluent in French. I remember her as a prodigy at the piano, and if she can help find a missing person, more power to her.
http://bellafontana.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_archive.html


Okay so Carla was selected by DET Z because he knew her from the Cindy Song case. Yet orginally she is a Meyer from Lock Haven and of course Det Z went to school with PF and he just happened to be the officer in at 11:30 next shift after 11. HMMM all I can say is

:confused:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
[
Okay so Carla was selected by DET Z because he knew her from the Cindy Song case. Yet orginally she is a Meyer from Lock Haven and of course Det Z went to school with PF and he just happened to be the officer in at 11:30 next shift after 11. HMMM all I can say is

:confused: [/*]

DZ didn't attend school with PEF; he remembered her from when she was a high school student. DZ on on the BPD at the time.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks


Would Baron automatically be the first thought that would come to DetZ mind if a psychic being brought in was mentioned? I would guess yes. Was Baron introduced into the scenario by DetZ or was it a means of leading DetZ to her?
JMO [/*]

Didn't DZ talk to State College police chief about her? Then make a call? Maybe Pgal would have that info on her site?

My computer doesn't allow me to do a lot of searches without shutting down, still not fixed, or I would check it out.

CB, since you are now hooked up with a faster internet, can you do a search on it?

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks



IIRC, he spoke with Detective Brian Sprinkle, Ferguson Township police. He worked with Baron on the CS case. [/*]

I found 2 articles on Carla's site about RG's case. In one article she is speaking with DZ and Barbara Gray, who if I remember correctly, spent a lot of time with her during her investigation.

http://home.att.net/~carla.baron/missing.html

What I would like to know if why CB can't get anymore psychic info on the person following RG, what case and who was involved. It just all sound iffy.

[sherrijean981]

http://www.centredaily.com/news/ray_gricar/story/3775.html

Psychic joins Gricar case
By Erin L. Nissley
BELLEFONTE — Bellefonte police have begun working with a California psychic in hopes of generating new clues in their investigation into the disappearance of District Attorney Ray Gricar nearly one month ago.

Police officer Darrel Zaccagni said Gricar's loved ones brought up the possibility of using a psychic in the investigation during a meeting. He immediately thought of Carla Baron, a former Lock Haven resident who has worked on Ferguson Township's probe into the Nov. 1, 2001, disappearance of Penn State student Hyun Jong "Cindy" Song.

Song's disappearance remains unsolved.

After talking to Ferguson Township police about Baron, Zaccagni took the idea back to Gricar's loved ones. Bellefonte Police Chief Duane Dixon approved the proposal, and Zaccagni called her last week.

Although Zaccagni is skeptical of psychics in general, he said he can't discount them.

"I believe in God, and if I believe in God, I have to believe there are spirits out there," he said. "If you look, more and more police are using psychics."

Advertisement
But Don Zettlemoyer, director of the Justice and Safety Institute at Penn State, said it's pretty uncommon for police to use psychics for investigations.

"They often end up being used when everything else has hit a dead end," he said.

The 10-year veteran of Michigan police work said he knows of no empirical evidence that psychics can help an investigation.

"If it detracts from the time an officer is actually investigating, then it can hurt an investigation," Zettlemoyer said. "But sometimes police departments come under fire for not doing enough investigating. It can display a willingness to pursue every avenue."

Barbara Gray, Gricar's ex-wife and the mother of his daughter, Lara, said she and other family members and friends were interested in using a psychic because police are running out of angles to investigate.

"At this point, we have no clues," Gray said. "We're hoping anything we can learn will be beneficial."

Gricar, 59, was last heard from on April 15, when he called girlfriend and housemate Patty Fornicola about 11:30 a.m. to say he was taking a drive along state Route 192 in the Brush Valley area. Fornicola called police about 11:30 p.m. when Gricar hadn't returned home. The red-and-white Mini Cooper he was driving was found in a parking lot in Lewisburg April 16, police said.

Fornicola declined to comment on Baron's involvement.

Baron has made several TV appearances, including Court TV's "Psychic Detectives," to talk about her involvement in the Song case. She said she plans to do future segments on Gricar's disappearance for "Court TV." She said the family and police are aware of her intentions.

Neither police nor the family are paying Baron for her assistance.

Baron, who became involved with Song's case on the recommendation of Penn State's Paranormal Research Society, uses a process she calls remote profiling to come up with scenes, landmarks, conversations and other details about a case she's working on.

"I'm not here to solve this thing," she said. "I'm here to contribute pieces of the puzzle."

Zaccagni said police are taking the information she provides and "keeping it in the back of our mind" while they continue to investigate the case.

"For example, if she sees a blue barn with a red roof, we're not going to go all over the state looking for it," he said.

So far, Baron said, she's gotten several impressions about Gricar's personality and habits that police have told her are "pretty accurate." She also said she's "seen" someone leaning into a car and having a conversation with Gricar.

Based on what she's "seen," Baron believes Gricar was killed, possibly by someone he'd prosecuted in the past.

"I don't believe he's with us any longer," she said, adding, "I'm not infallible. I hope I'm wrong."

Zaccagni said he still thinks Gricar is "out there somewhere, alive and well" but said foul play is not beyond the scope of possibilities. He does not think Gricar committed suicide, despite the similarities in this case to Gricar's brother's disappearance in Ohio in 1996. Officials there found Roy Gricar's body in a river and determined the cause of death to be suicide by drowning.

"With as much time as we've been in that (Susquehanna) river, we would have found him by now," Zaccagni said. "Every avenue is still open. And if you believe he's no longer with us, you have to look at foul play."

Erin L. Nissley can be reached at 231-4616.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks
Thanks, SJ, for finding that article.

I found this part of it particularly interesting.

"Barbara Gray, Gricar's ex-wife and the mother of his daughter, Lara, said she and other family members and friends were interested in using a psychic because police are running out of angles to investigate.

"At this point, we have no clues," Gray said. "We're hoping anything we can learn will be beneficial." The article came out on May 12th, not even one month after disappearance, and the family has been told, there are 'no clues'.

Someone who knew there would be no clues found in Lewisburg, who also knew family members well enough to know the idea of 'psychic' would come up, and someone familiar with DetZ who, of course, knew he would first think of Baron.... in local news for sometime regarding a missing person case, and someone who knew he would jump at that chance like a horse with a carrot dangling in front of it.

So on May 12th, the investigation was already at a complete stand-still, basically shut-down at that point. WHO squelched the investigation?

JMO [/*]

I would like to know what, if anything, the stand in DA Mark Smith, was doing to further the investigation? Other than finding the book of statutes on his desk a couple days later, what was he doing? We have heard NOTHING from him, about him questioning, about him doing anything.

I have found JKA's article and have started reading it again. So many odd things, like not being able to reach him, no one knowing for sure where he was that weekend, not being able to talk to him, JKA told she wouldn't be needed even though he was not back in Centre County and still hours away. She was next in line but everyone just ignored her as a fill in for RG. Something strange there.

(http://gricar.disappearance.googlepages.com/

[sherrijean981]

I found this article that has a few small comments from acting DA Mark Smith. Interesting article. Sometimes it is worth forgetting so you can re-read it and at a different time, other things pop out at you.

http://www.carlabaron.net/forum/showthread.php?t=239

Quote:
"'It is baffling':

The voice in the district attorney's office is Mark Smith, an assistant promoted to acting district attorney after Gricar's disappearance.

Smith, like many others, is at a loss.

"It is baffling," Smith says. "You don't know how to feel."
Quote

Quote
"Smith, the acting district attorney, says every possibility in the case is being investigated. In some of their speculative scenarios, Gricar is the victim of a revenge-minded defendant, or he has had a mental lapse and is just "out wandering around." Quote

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks <Snip>
The article came out on May 12th, not even one month after disappearance, and the family has been told, there are 'no clues'.

Someone who knew there would be no clues found in Lewisburg, who also knew family members well enough to know the idea of 'psychic' would come up, and someone familiar with DetZ who, of course, knew he would first think of Baron.... in local news for sometime regarding a missing person case, and someone who knew he would jump at that chance like a horse with a carrot dangling in front of it.

So on May 12th, the investigation was already at a complete stand-still, basically shut-down at that point. WHO squelched the investigation? I believe this is wrong-thinking, logicworks...except that the intense initial investigation was basically over (perhaps by the end of April) and there were no definitive clues. I could write a book about CBM (she changed her name to CB, BTW) and her involvement on this case. But I do not question why some family members opted for the psychic route. MOO

[day2day]

I for one don't blame CB for the fiasco -she is what she is-believe it or not. What bothers me is DETZ and the rest of LE who bought into this..and led the investigation in this direction.

They knew in the first five minutes if CB "knew" anything. They spent SOOOOOOOOOO much time and energy with her and never even bothered to talk to friends, neighbors or co-workers? Sorry this just p*sses me off!

One word. Karma.


jmo

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


I would like to know what, if anything, the stand in DA Mark Smith, was doing to further the investigation? Other than finding the book of statutes on his desk a couple days later, what was he doing? We have heard NOTHING from him, about him questioning, about him doing anything.


Smith, so far as I can tell, was one of those people that could have called a grand jury. Because of the timing issue, e.g. an election was coming, evidence still being analyzed, I can understand why he was not more agressive.

I don't understand why TC, MM, and PJ (Union Co. DA) were not more aggressive.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by day2day
I for one don't blame CB for the fiasco -she is what she is-believe it or not. What bothers me is DETZ and the rest of LE who bought into this..and led the investigation in this direction.

They knew in the first five minutes if CB "knew" anything. They spent SOOOOOOOOOO much time and energy with her and never even bothered to talk to friends, neighbors or co-workers? Sorry this just p*sses me off!

One word. Karma. Hey, Day! Glad to see you still lurking around. It's a toss-up on who got used more in this instance...CB or DZ. But whatever was going on there.......it clearly didn't work. MOO

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Hey, Day! Glad to see you still lurking around. It's a toss-up on who got used more in this instance...CB or DZ. But whatever was going on there.......it clearly didn't work. MOO [/*]

Hey, hey S1. Nice to "see" you!! Yep-i'm still here-:)
Smoke and mirrors ..from day1 :(

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by day2day
Hey, hey S1. Nice to "see" you!! Yep-i'm still here-:)
Smoke and mirrors ..from day1 :( Sauntering and Sweet-tea...2 of my favorites! Meet you on the porch.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


Are you certain he was there at 11:30 pm, Friday evening, and that the initial report wasn't held over until Saturday morning?



I'm reporting what has been reported; DZ took the report.


In the chain of command, was the State immediately notified of the disappearance, and called in?


No, though th apb was issued.


WHO gave the 'beat' patrolman permission to enter RG's office on Saturday morning, and did he have RG's password to his computer?


I think that has been covered, not that even JKA says that she was not the first one contacted.


Has DetZ been given a lie detector test? [/*]

The only two polygraph tests that I've heard of were of PEF and LG.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by logicworks



Interesting, Cloudbuster. Any idea about what relation she is to TL, BJL's ex?

IIRC, we were told a family member, no mention of which one, introduced the idea of bringing in a psychic.

It reminds me of the river scene, with TG saying as soon as he and his brother arrived in Lewisburg, the first thought was 'suicide', because of memories. Anyone who personally knew what they had gone through would know that is what would be what would come to mind. No big mystery there to 'read' someone else's mind. It was traumatic and of course, would be there; one more reason why I do not believe RG set up such a scenario.

Would Baron automatically be the first thought that would come to DetZ mind if a psychic being brought in was mentioned? I would guess yes. Was Baron introduced into the scenario by DetZ or was it a means of leading DetZ to her?
JMO [/*]

I have come up with nothing on if Baron is a relative. I was wondering if a possible relative of VM?

[puzzled]

I just returned from PA. I was in Lewisburg last tuesday and went directly to the SOS. It was odd because there are only two employees still working there that were there three years ago when Ray went missing. I asked many of them about Ray and none of them seemed to really be aware initially of who I was referring to. We took many pictures both inside and out of the SOS. Then a female told us we were not allowed to take photos inside. An older man followed us out of the store and was giving us some major dirty looks! He stared us down and I think he wanted to say something to us but we walked away and went over by the river. There are numerous park benches and I am not sure which one Ray was seen sitting on. The Packwood Museum is on the corner so maybe Ray was seen on the one closest to the main drag like right by the museum. Also while trying to find the SOS we went over the bridge and then turned left. We went about two miles north and turned around at this trucking company. It sits right up against the river. I can't remember the name of it but there was a warehouse with large bay doors. Milton transport or something like that. I discovered that the people who lived in the house right beside the SOS parking lot have since moved. The new folks have been there since March. I guess my husbands cousin is an acquaintance of Rays. One woman that I talked to thought that maybe Ray had run off with a woman. I respect her opinion but told her that I do not think that Ray would do that. My husbands Aunt knows John Murtha very well. We in fact drank out of glasses that he had sent to her. If someone can post his address I would like to send a letter to him asking for help in this case. Iguess he was good friends with my husbands uncle before he passed away. I was thrilled to read Sherrijeans article in the paper while visiting family there...great job SJ!:D

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Sauntering and Sweet-tea...2 of my favorites! Meet you on the porch. [/*]

:) ... I can hardly wait!!

I cannot believe that after allllllllllll of this time we are still here..with no "new" leads..it is heartbreaking and aggravating!

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by day2day
:) ... I can hardly wait!!

I cannot believe that after allllllllllll of this time we are still here..with no "new" leads..it is heartbreaking and aggravating! Hey Day...you're a 'Day' late and a dollar short. But, more importantly, LG is left wanting an arm to take her down the aisle. So sad.

PB told us that. But who could know that now...since it, and nearly everything Gricar in the CDT, has disappeared 'in the land of Hatchey McClatchy.'

[sherrijean981]

I did a search on the Centre Daily Times and came up with these articles still on their web site:

http://pd.centredaily.com/sp?aff=101&keywords=ray+gricar

The Pete Bosak Q&A is no longer listed on the main page of the paper, it is gone. Most of the articles are listed for 2/2008 but when you open them their original date is on it.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


Weren't we told the reason for the 'animosity' regarding the commissioner was because she DIDN'T go to police with it? Obviously that isn't the REAL reason for the animosity........

It appears both she and JKA were never to speak out to the public without 'someone's' permission. The roots of the lies are nearly as interesting as the lies themselves.
JMO [/*]

As far as I know, no one has suggested that as the reason. Any "animosity," and that's your term, has dealt with the prior political relation between Wedler and RFG over making the position full time.

JKA is a different story, and that might have to deal with her tone and her refusal to get answers to the questions she had raised.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks



Gotta love the 'moves'.........
The article regarding TC's commenting on RG case, which actually occurred ONE MONTH after RG went missing while TC was visiting the area for nothing related to the case, obviously cornered into a response by some newsperson, is now listed with the February 26, 2008, articles, giving a first glance appearance to readers that it is a recent occurrence and that TC is concerned.

Gee.......I wonder why they didn't put the 'gutless coward' call by Buehner and response back right up there as February 26, 2008 news also right along with that article, and let the voters see the full picture. Won't happen because as you see, although anything IS possible in the land of Hatchy McClatchy, only that which 'serves' will be filtered through under a new guise.
JMO [/*]

Here is a link to articles by Erin, former reporter of the CDT. Plenty of comments from both TC and "his flacky" Kevin. Plenty of comments I had forgotten.

It is also mentioned that Ray's two DA friends were going to present the lack of investigation by the AG to the the meeting of the PA DA Association that year. Wonder if he would still do it if we contacted him?

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=163&st=60

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
Here is a link to articles by Erin, former reporter of the CDT. Plenty of comments from both TC and "his flacky" Kevin. Plenty of comments I had forgotten.

It is also mentioned that Ray's two DA friends were going to present the lack of investigation by the AG to the the meeting of the PA DA Association that year. Wonder if he would still do it if we contacted him?

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=163&st=60 There are no TC comments in that article...only the flack, supposedly speaking for TC. And, my information is that the PDAA leader, a 'Corbett worshiper', deliberately thwarted Buehner's initiative at the meeting in Feb '06. Wouldn't Ray Gricar have been proud. Thanks for nothing, boys and girls. JMOO

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks <Snip>
Gotta love the 'moves'......... I suppose the 2/26/08 reference (using the regular 'search' function) is to the last time Hatchy McClatchy monkied around with the website.

You can find all "Gricar" articles back to 1995 using the CDT archives tab (down at the bottom in the blue field)...but you have to pay to see the full articles.

This old link to the 'free' articles still works...but I don't believe it is a link found anywhere on the CDT's current website, and it does not include the third anniversary article, which went the way of the Q&A forum:
http://www.centredaily.com/news/ray_gricar/

[day2day]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


Here is a link to articles by Erin, former reporter of the CDT. Plenty of comments from both TC and "his flacky" Kevin. Plenty of comments I had forgotten.

It is also mentioned that Ray's two DA friends were going to present the lack of investigation by the AG to the the meeting of the PA DA Association that year. Wonder if he would still do it if we contacted him?

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=163&st=60 [/*]

Thank you for the link!! And at this point..it couldn't hurt to ask!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day


Thank you for the link!! And at this point..it couldn't hurt to ask! [/*]

I think they asked it about two years ago.

It got nowhere, unfortunately. :(

[Cloudbuster]

I had a interesting evening and wanted to share it with everyone. While dining a patron had come into the restrant that we was at, my So reconized the man accompied with his wife as a retired judge and also a former DA. They sat the booth behind us and my So struck up a conversation because this retired judge is a friend of my So's father.

I butted into their conversation to see if he has heard anything about missing DA Gricar, I asked that because he too in his past was a DA. He told me he followed the case in the papers. He also said that RG was known as a well respected person not that he knew him personally, but word travels.

My SO butted in and said" do you think he was a walk away? The judge responded with "with only being within 8 months of retirement?" "The man could of just retired at anytime." He said In his own opinion that someone probably had something against him. I brought up the drug bust and he also said he too had given that some thought.

It's interesting. In no way did he even consider walk away or suicide. He said RG would know not to get into any strange vechicles so he was pondering that the person was known to RG and was setup by someone who had it in for him.

Just sharing what I call a professional's opinion.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


Thanks for the link, S1.

In re-reading one of the articles, a number of things in the July 24, 2005 story stuck out.

1. Cleaning of debris along the river banks apparently occurred long before July 24th, and judging from the way it was written, possibly prior to Memorial Day.


***The riverside moorings have long been cleared of last winter's clinging debris, ***and two popular boating holidays -- Memorial Day and the Fourth of July -- have come and gone since the Centre County district attorney vanished after taking a Friday off from work and driving here, an hour east of Bellefonte."


There is a difference between boating and fishing. Someone in a boat is very unlikely to be proximate to where the drive was found.

And, of course, none is relevant to a September 2005 "planting." The larger laptop was black and wouldn't be too easily seen, except by someone very close to it.

The drive, also relatively dark, is much smaller.


2. On July 24th, the bottom of the river was clearly visible.

"With water only about 30 inches deep now, the river bottom shows quite clearly from above, and fish can be easily spotted navigating their way through the deepest of quite shallow channels.


In the case of the drive, the fish are substantially larger. You must also remember that, prior to 7/30/08 no one was specifically looking for the drive, because no one knew it was separate.


What made him think they were 'agents'? Did they come into his shop and identify themselves as such? Were they driving a marked car? Did he know them? What exactly would they have been looking for 9-10 weeks after RG disappeared? One would think evidence and yet six days after the news article came out the laptop was found.
JMO [/*]

Several possibilities:

1. Bennett was wrong.

2. They flashed a badge and ask him questions.

3. He recognized them from earlier visits to the area.

[/quote]

Out of 100 hours, (that's a lot, IMO) not one tape shows RG having passed by? Usually surveillance cameras scan the lot also capturing the roadway close by, not necessarily just the entrance to and from the stores themselves. Yet not one sign of him, which completely matches what we have NOT heard from sighters on route 192.
[/quote]

We've discussed the "tape problem. The cameras often photograph at 10-30 second intervals, and they are often not aimed at highways (none covered the parking area, for example). There are not a lot of places en route where would be a camera. If they looked "more than 100 hours tape" that could be a grand total of four cameras.



Erin wrote it, which of course differs from the 'new and improved, revised' version that he took the entire day off. Surely Erin didn't just pull that bit of info out of her 'hat'.



Or, it was based on Dixon's [mis]statement at the initial press conference.

[puzzled]

Last week we drove down 192 from Lewisburg to Centrehall and it was around 11am. It surprised us how very few cars we encountered on 192. I would say maybe 3 cars at the most. It is such a quiet road. There are not a lot of places to pull over but there are some. It occurred to us that Ray could have pulled over with a car pulled over behind him and that they could sit there for maybe even ten minutes with no one coming through there at the time. It does not seem heavily trafficked at all. It was a very nice day and it would seem that more people would have been traveling that day. While we are on the subject can someone refresh my memory. Where was Ray seen with a "construction worker type" leaning toward the window of his car? Where was he when the brownish/tannish colored car was seen tailing him or pulled over behind him? Does anyone know which park bench was Ray seen sitting in near the Packwood Museum? The one closest to the museum?

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


I think they asked it about two years ago.

It got nowhere, unfortunately. :( [/*]

I just don' t know anymore. Something has to shake this up. LG has been very quiet and that hasn't seemed to help. Maybe it is time that someone close to Mr. Gricar make some noise. Or maybe we need to make some noise.

Certainly someone would listen.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by puzzled
Last week we drove down 192 from Lewisburg to Centrehall and it was around 11am. It surprised us how very few cars we encountered on 192. I would say maybe 3 cars at the most. It is such a quiet road. There are not a lot of places to pull over but there are some. It occurred to us that Ray could have pulled over with a car pulled over behind him and that they could sit there for maybe even ten minutes with no one coming through there at the time. It does not seem heavily trafficked at all. It was a very nice day and it would seem that more people would have been traveling that day.

While we are on the subject can someone refresh my memory. Where was Ray seen with a "construction worker type" leaning toward the window of his car? Where was he when the brownish/tannish colored car was seen tailing him or pulled over behind him? Does anyone know which park bench was Ray seen sitting in near the Packwood Museum? The one closest to the museum? I did some looking along 192 this year, on foot...in the stretch through the state forest. When stopped along 192 for any length of time, there is traffic, both ways...not a lot, as you said. The chances are someone would have noticed two parked cars, especially the distinctive Mini Cooper...but maybe not.

It is possible that RG, after hanging around Lewisburg and the SOS for a couple of hours, was followed on his return trip to Bellefonte...stopped...whatever happened next...and the Mini was returned to Lewisburg. I hope LE did a ground search along 192, especially the wooded stretches. There are lot of evergreens and mountain laurel to obscure the view. I would not put much hope in hunters either, because I think they would not hunt close to the highway. MOO

The CDT reported (5/10/06) that DZ indicated the construction worker type sighting was in the SOS parking lot.

The CDT reported (5/13/05) that CB gave police a description of a car which might have been following RG at some point, and DZ confirmed later that he had read a similar report made to another agency. According to a later 'Arrive Net' press release (information provided by CB, I believe...not LE), it was a tan or brown car, and that meshed with an earlier report made to the PSP at Milton. I do not believe LE has given out any particulars regarding that 'sighting'.

The CDT reported (4/29/05) that the museum employee looked out her shop window and saw RG standing near his parked Mini Cooper at about noon on 4/15. If you believe Renner's CFT article (11/16/05)...I do not...DZ is supposedly quoted as saying it was Friday and/or Saturday (take your pick), that employees (plural) watched RG come and go 2 or 3 times, and that one time he got out, sat on a bench, and read a newspaper or something.

[day2day]

Originally posted by logicworks


I seriously doubt the Mini was on that road. Someone would have noticed it.
JMO [/*]

Your whole post was great ..but this sentence really hit me hard.
Something that has always bothered me..is that Mr. Gricar was seen on the courthouse tape ...app. 9 pm on 4/14 and then virtually fell off the freakin planet. It is hard for me to believe that NOONE saw him on his way home that night..(did he walk? did he drive)..noone saw him leave his home the mornin of 4/15. Did he stop for gas for his "trip"..did he stop to buy the water that was found in the mini..or were there like bottles in pf's fridge?..

Still feels like day one to me :(

jmo

[Cinderella]

TG and Pete Bosak were given the name of the person who stated that he saw Ray on the morning of 4/15/05. He knew what time it was because he drives the same route every day to work. I don't know if anyone ever spoke to him. If they did maybe it would open up a can of worm and conflict with PF's story and it wouldn't fit her timeline. My friend was willing to talk to TG.
I have never heard another word about it. I made a special trip to talk to the man to make sure that he said what he said and to see if he would talk to someone. Either way, someone is not telling the truth. I believe the man. He didn't have anything in it one way or another. He didn't want to talk to a reporter.

Sorry, but I am about to..... barf

[Cinderella]

Forgot to say how interesting it is that a man wants all of what he owns in anothers name.

Remember he traded HIS car for the MINI.
PF Kept her car
He paid the house off.
Who knows what else.

2 cars
1 house
Who knows what else.

It is my opinions only, but I bet that he didn't just surprise PF with a car. If you get a car for a present, you usually let that person pick it out. What was Ray going to be driving. There is always that back up plan in case something happens in a relation ship. I could see if he had a used car in his name.

Wonder if any insurance policiy's were taken out?

One person that pm'd me told me that I didn't know what the family knew, that person is right. How much more is there that we don't know about. It is also interesting that something happened to Ray after all the presents were given.

One thing that I do know is that there is no glory if someone killed Ray. Even if this person is brilliant in their plan, there is no glory. Nothing to be excited about getting away with because no one will ever know.

Just like the BTK killer, he had no glory when he went unnoticed. It was only until someone put a face on him did we have the puzzle solved and were amazed that it was him. His secret was then revealed and people were shocked to see who had pulled this off. Oh the glory of it all.

I really appreciate the pm's folks. Some of you are too shy to come on the board and say what you want to. You go behind the scenes. That is ok. PM's are read.

Just thinking outloud, My Opinions and Thoughts Only.