Two toddlers freeze to death, alcohol cited

[Jbrink]

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/298889

snip-

YELLOW QUILL, Sask. – The grief on a Saskatchewan First Nation deepened this morning with the discovery of the tiny body of a toddler frozen in knee-deep snow near her home – the day after her younger sister's body was found in the same condition.

© Copyright Toronto Star 1996-2008

[CANDYKISSES]

OMG, what a horrible tragedy.

:rose: :rose: :rose:

[Annie143]

And no excuse should be offered up for this happening......!

Is he subject to a tribal law for punishment for this crime of minimally neglect or does he come under standard American law ? I think I am reading that he lives on a reservation ?

My heart aches for those little babies, hopefully their suffering did not last.

:rose: :rose:

[wandering]

Originally posted by Annie143
And no excuse should be offered up for this happening......!

Is he subject to a tribal law for punishment for this crime of minimally neglect or does he come under standard American law ? I think I am reading that he lives on a reservation ?

My heart aches for those little babies, hopefully their suffering did not last.

:rose: :rose: [/*]No consolation, but I read that freezing to death is uncomfortable very briefly, and then a warmth envelops the victim.

:rose:

[msmom]

:rose: :rose: For each child

[VC2]

Originally posted by Annie143
And no excuse should be offered up for this happening......!

Is he subject to a tribal law for punishment for this crime of minimally neglect or does he come under standard American law ? I think I am reading that he lives on a reservation ?

My heart aches for those little babies, hopefully their suffering did not last.

:rose: :rose: [/*]

since it happened in canada it would be canadian law.

[jtazzy]

OMG my heart breaks for each child

[barskin&co.]

Just too, too sad.

:rose: :rose:

[Annie143]

Sorry, I didnt read Canada. My bad. The question still stands, only would he be subject to Canadian law and not tribal law ?

[duncan]

Good fathers do not get drunk while caring for the children.:cuss:



Those poor babies.:rose:

[Jbrink]

good parents also don't take their kids outside in freezing temperatures wearing only a diaper and tshirt. Wonder how he was dressed? The article mentions that he was taking care of the kids */c the mom was out partying.
I'm not sure if the RCMP will be involved in this or Reserve police. I guess it will depend on how the investigation goes.

[Jbrink]

New article with a few more details. Looks like the RCMP is investigating.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/299061

snip-

There was anger among some, who said the tragedy points to social problems, such as substance abuse and lack of housing, that have long been ignored on the reserve.

© Copyright Toronto Star 1996-2008

[ClssyLadyBlu]

Some people should be neutered.

[Annie143]

Some people should be neutered.

:beer:

[spicedtea]

I didn't see any mention of an autopsy being done at some point on the babies,did I miss something? Surely they aren't going to just take this guys word for how they died,for all anyone knows,he could have killed them before leaving the house and then dumped them in the field and staged this crazy story as a cover-up.

Drunk or not,nobody would take babies out into the extreme cold and snow just to leave them in a field by accident.

Then just not bother to indicate to anyone that they were out there for 8 hours. I know he had hypothermia and frost bite,but his injuries are not life threatening and he had enough strength to make it to the neighbors house,yet not enough to talk or write or hand gesture that the babies were out there in danger?!?

I just don't believe it and IMO it sounds more like he intentionally did something to his kids and is trying to get away with it.

Poor babies,may they rest in peace...:rose: :rose:

[Jbrink]

Info on the wake and funeral for the little girls, as well as the investigation:

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/saskatoon/story.html?id=ab183984-2c3a-4f6c-9f2e-66fe08cd8fdb&k=20936

The canada.com family of Web sites and CanWest newspaper Web sites are protected by copyright law. Copyright © 2007 CanWest MediaWorks Publications Inc. and its affiliated or related companies. Specific content such as articles, photos and images are subject to the copyright of their respective owners. All rights reserved. Unauthorized distribution, transmission or publication strictly prohibited.

[duncan]

Originally posted by packy
Oh so sad. Bless their hearts.

I hope they at least find out why he left the house with them. I wonder if their heat was out, or if there was some other problem that caused him to take them. Or was he gonna take them to the neighbor and go out or go look for their mother. So many questions, but no matter what these two little toddlers are gone. :rose: :rose: [/*]



I think he was out of booze.:flamemad:

[Cdaus]

"No consolation, but I read that freezing to death is uncomfortable very briefly, and then a warmth envelops the victim."

Did someone actually experience this??:confused:

[Jbrink]

Sask. reserve where 2 sisters died tried to ban alcohol: chief

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/01/31/toddlers-deaths.html

The Globe and Mail quoted the man's older sister, Bernita Pauchay, as saying he had been drinking heavily on Monday night.

She said he was trying to take the children to a relative's house about 400 metres away because "there was something wrong" with one of them.

The RCMP have only said alcohol may have been a factor. Christopher Pauchay has been taken to a Saskatoon hospital where police are expected to interview him again on Thursday.

[spicedtea]

Originally posted by birdmom
This is just Sad..

But, I wish to point out a few things from the last post.
I am in no way saying it was not neglect or was right. Just wish to point out a few things that are missing. I only have the media posts to go on and have no idea if there is more to this. I just want people to consider something they might not understand if they live in a warmer area.

(snip)

[/*]

A very thought provoking post. After reading the second article just now,I agree that what you said is a real possibility.

Plus,just from my own experience,some/most reservations are grossly impoverished and don't have the money for things like outdoor lighting so they aren't well lit at night. My aunt lived on the Quapaw reservation in Oklahoma,while not cold there,it was pitch black at night. Plus the housing units are usually identical,making it hard to find the one you're looking for. I got lost many times trying to find my way back to my aunts home.

Wonder if that could have contributed to what happened,the dad becoming disoriented due to the intense cold combined with total darkness and got lost. I can see that happening in even an open field.

I read that he wasn't wearing a coat either so that would point to some kind of crisis that he thought he could just run to a family members help for.

Unless something else comes up to say that the man intentionally put the kids in harms way,I retract my previous post and offer prayers for him too.

Thanks for posting your thought on this. I feel guilty that I judged too fast now. :(

For all three.... :rose:

[Jbrink]

some more details are coming out now:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/02/01/sister-freezing-children.html

snipped-

Father of dead girls sorry, family member says

The man whose two young girls froze to death on a Saskatchewan First Nation reserve is devastated by the loss and knows he did wrong, his sister says.

"It'll probably take him a long time to actually forgive himself," Bernita Pauchay said Thursday.


"He realized what he's done," she said. "He realized he screwed up big time, and that guilt and that blame is always going to be there because when he looks at his scars, that's when he is going to remember it."

According to Pauchay's sister, on Monday night, the father was worried about his younger daughter and had concerns she might have been sick. Pauchay may have been trying to reach help when he became lost in the icy field, she said.

"It scared him a lot to make him run out of the house like that to take the girls like that," she said.

Pauchay told his sister that at some point he dropped the kids, she said.

Her brother was drinking heavily that day, she said, adding that when he's drinking, he becomes a different person.

[duncan]

Originally posted by Jbrink
some more details are coming out now:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/02/01/sister-freezing-children.html

snipped-

Father of dead girls sorry, family member says

The man whose two young girls froze to death on a Saskatchewan First Nation reserve is devastated by the loss and knows he did wrong, his sister says.

"It'll probably take him a long time to actually forgive himself," Bernita Pauchay said Thursday.


"He realized what he's done," she said. "He realized he screwed up big time, and that guilt and that blame is always going to be there because when he looks at his scars, that's when he is going to remember it."

According to Pauchay's sister, on Monday night, the father was worried about his younger daughter and had concerns she might have been sick. Pauchay may have been trying to reach help when he became lost in the icy field, she said.

"It scared him a lot to make him run out of the house like that to take the girls like that," she said.

Pauchay told his sister that at some point he dropped the kids, she said.

Her brother was drinking heavily that day, she said, adding that when he's drinking, he becomes a different person. [/*]


Dropped the childrn to save himself:flamemad: , yep he "screwed up big time".

No defense for this drunk.

[duncan]

birdmom, I am a mother and my girls are alive because I loved them enough to put their needs first, I do not care how cold it was , that drunk dropped his daughters and the girls are dead and he saved himself, and only himself, girls were dropped.

He is a very bad man. imo

[duncan]

The children were dressed in a t-shirt and diapers. Why no shoes or coats in that fridged weather???

[Jbrink]

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/299916


snip-


Tots who froze to death laid to rest

YELLOW QUILL RESERVE, Sask.–The heartbroken grandmother of two children who met their tragic ends in an icy field on a Saskatchewan reserve has issued an emotional plea to the Canadian public, asking that their deaths not be in vain.

Three-year-old Kaydance Pauchay and her 1-year-old sister Santana were laid to rest Saturday after a private service on the Yellow Quill reserve about three hours east of Saskatoon.

Afterward, the girls' maternal grandmother, Irene Nippi, made her way to the edge of the reserve, where the media were being kept back, and asked reporters to tell the story of Yellow Quill and the struggles its people face.

"I was worried about my grandchildren. I did not want them to leave this world in vain," Nippi said, her slight frame trembling against the cold. "I hope there's change now that happens – a lot of changes like no alcohol and counselling and stuff to be brought in here. Our old teachings should be brought back."

The Yellow Quill reserve, situated in a part of the province where flat grain fields give way to rolling hills and forests, is battling alcohol abuse, high unemployment and a lack of suitable housing.

The First Nation also has political and financial difficulties. It has been under third-party management since 1999, and the chief is currently locked in a bitter battle with councillors that both sides agree is crippling the reserve's development.

Nippi said she hopes Saturday's service helps her own family move forward. The children's father, Christopher Pauchay, was brought to the reserve by ambulance so he and their mother, Tracey Jimmy, could say goodbye to their children together. Jimmy is expecting another baby in April.



Speaking to reporters as he left the memorial reception in his car, Pauchay's brother Gary said both parents have been devastated by the tragedy.

"The parents are really sad," he said, adding his brother hasn't told him much about what happened that night. "He just stares at me."

He couldn't speculate on Christopher's recovery, other than to say, "He'll walk."

When reporters asked how he himself was coping, Pauchay said simply, "having a beer." There was an open beer bottle beside him in the car console.

Nippi had has words for the band leadership, saying she and her family have felt like they weren't supported during this tragedy.

But she was comforted by all the people who came to the funeral from far and wide to offer their condolences.

"That made me feel so good," she said, fighting back tears. "I just knew we weren't alone."

[duncan]

Originally posted by Texanne
No, not alone. All the drinking buddies are there. Wakes are sometimes a good excuse to drink again.. Have another one...it was just little children. None of you were responsible.:cuss: [/*]


Open beer in the car ???:flamemad:

[jace]

I don't think the alcohol is optional in trying to recreate what happened. If he had been sober he might have thought to bundle the girls before going out. If he had been sober he might have realized that he dropped them and went back to get them. If they still died after all his efforts then there might have been some sympathy for him.

Yes, where he lived is freezing but it can't be an excuse for a father that was drunk while he was supposed to be taking care of his daughters. If the house had caught on fire and he was drunk, ran out of the house but "forgot" that his daughters were there so he didn't go get them out then would you have sympathy for him? Would the excuse be that fire is hot?

:shrug:

[lorjac]

["It'll probably take him a long time to actually forgive himself," Bernita Pauchay said Thursday.

"He realized what he's done," she said. "He realized he screwed up big time, and that guilt and that blame is always going to be there because when he looks at his scars, that's when he is going to remember it."


It'll take him a long time??? It should take him forever to forgive himself.... and oh I'm sorry, if he has to see actual scars to remember what happened, he was NOT a loving father.

I'm sorry I know that sound heartless, but we just had a bought of -18 degree weather, -32 wind chills and I wouldn't even let my kids go outside.... and if they were sick and needed help ~ you would still take a minute and put clothes on them!!! My God, in that type of temps it takes NO time at all for frostbite to kick in... plus it's difficult to breath as well in those temps.

How much you wanna bet he doesn't give up drinking????

ETA... guess it doesn't bother the rest of the family either...

When reporters asked how he himself was coping, Pauchay said simply, "having a beer." There was an open beer bottle beside him in the car console.

[duncan]

Originally posted by lorjac


It'll take him a long time??? It should take him forever to forgive himself.... and oh I'm sorry, if he has to see actual scars to remember what happened, he was NOT a loving father.

I'm sorry I know that sound heartless, but we just had a bought of -18 degree weather, -32 wind chills and I wouldn't even let my kids go outside.... and if they were sick and needed help ~ you would still take a minute and put clothes on them!!! My God, in that type of temps it takes NO time at all for frostbite to kick in... plus it's difficult to breath as well in those temps.

How much you wanna bet he doesn't give up drinking????

ETA... guess it doesn't bother the rest of the family either...

When reporters asked how he himself was coping, Pauchay said simply, "having a beer." There was an open beer bottle beside him in the car console. [/*]


Those babies were dressed in a shirt and a diaper, it just makes me so mad that dad took them out like that and dropped them one by one to die all alone in the fridged cold ( I just know they were crying too) and he feels like the victim. ???

A beer at a funeral bothered me, but that open beer in a car just is so wrong.


Poor little babies:rose:

[Jbrink]

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/saskatoon/story.html?id=177eb2e0-bda3-44c3-a770-610bd49010e6&k=7219

Have compassion for father of frozen children, says ‘miracle’ baby’s mother

snip-

The mother of a child who narrowly escaped death by freezing almost seven years ago is calling for compassion for the father of two infant girls found frozen to death on a Saskatchewan First Nations reserve last week.

Erika Nordby made headlines around the globe as Edmonton’s “miracle baby” when, in 2001, she made a complete recovery after freezing to the point of clinical death in a snow-covered backyard.


Her mother, Leyla Nordby, said Tuesday that Christopher Pauchay — who lost his daughters Jan. 29 after taking them out in a -50 wind chill after he’d been drinking heavily — deserves sympathy, not condemnation.

“He’s messed up. He knows it,” she said. “It does matter the circumstances, but just be kind; that guy has to live with the consequences the rest of his life.

“What good is it pointing fingers? He’s going to have so many haunting memories.”

and-

A community meeting will be held on the Yellow Quill First Nation on Thursday to discuss the reserve’s chronic social problems.

“The community’s quite angry. There’s a lot of chaos right now,” said social worker Margaret Roper, who is helping to organize the meeting.

“We need to make some changes. This is not about pointing fingers at anybody or making this a political issue. What are the changes that need to be made to start healing?”

Roper said the community meeting, originally scheduled for last Friday, was postponed due to the girls’ wake and funeral.

But it’s now time to vent frustrations over problems plaguing the community, such as poor housing and alcohol abuse, she said.

“There’s just so much work to be done.”

The band council will also be meeting Wednesday to talk about its problems and concerns, said Chief Robert Whitehead. He said he also plans to attend the community meeting.

[Jbrink]

Here's another article that does not deal directly with the deaths of these two children, but outlines conditions on the reserve. I just thought it could add to the bigger picture.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/298174

Harsh reality of northern reserves

[lorjac]

Hmmm, I guess it would be like drinking beer at the funeral of a friend/family member who died as result of a drunk driving incident... IMO.

Didn't his family state that he had been drinking??? Cuz didn't his sister say 'he is another person when he drinks?"

How long could one last in those temps??? Not long, not long at all..... in fact in those temps it only takes MINUTES for frostbite to set in.... and why does what HE was wearing matter??? He managed to survive.... didn't he????

As for simulating the event.... how can you??? Do you know if they had snow standing on the ground??? If so, how much, do you know how hard it is to run in snow??? Especially once it's started to get that ice on the top that breaks w/your every step. You cannot completely simulate this.

I do believe it was a very difficult trek for him... however, he managed to survive and two innocent children were ditched into a snowbank and dead in no time.... all of which was due to his stupidity due to his being drunk. Plain & Simple.

[lorjac]

Yep... I don't care who the parent is.... they still need to be held responsible.....

I agree... I have my own opinions... I live in Central WI we get that below zero **** and the snow and the wind... so I'm not a victim of anything!!!!

[trt]

I know if *my* child died(GOD FORBID) as a result of something I did or didn't do because I was drunk, the last thing I'd be doing at their funeral or anywhere else would be drinking. That would totally be a wake up call that *perhaps* I had a problem and needed some help. JMO

[duncan]

I do not know much about cold temperatures, North Carolina is the coldest place I have ever lived in and I live in coastal North Carolina so I admit I may not understand -50 degrees, but I wonder if I would be better off naked ??? I am very sure I would want layers of cotton and wool, but if I were to believe bird then those babies dressed only in t-shirts and diapers had a better chance at living than over dressed dad.

I know the man is sick and sad now but on that night he was drunk and neglectful and I think he should be charged with a crime even if it is only simple child endangerment.

[Jbrink]

Criminal charges?
Guilty conscience must be considered, argue some experts

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=a829087c-5357-45a0-be30-756bd01ac17f&k=54119

Some legal experts agree the Crown must consider Christopher Pauchay's guilty conscience and broken heart in determining whether he should face further scrutiny from the courts over the deaths of his two young girls.

The 25-year-old had apparently been drinking before he left his home on the Yellow Quill reserve with his daughters some time after 12:30 a.m. Tuesday, when windchill temperatures had dipped into the -50C range.

Pauchay was rushed to hospital suffering from hypothermia and serious frostbite, after neighbours found his frozen body on their doorstep. RCMP later discovered the bodies of Kaydance, 3, and one-year-old Santana, clad only in T-shirts and diapers, in some piles of snow.

"Even for those people who are very critical of the father -- bearing in mind we don't know all the facts -- you'd have to be pretty insensitive not to have any sympathy for him," Saskatoon defence lawyer Mark Brayford said Friday.

"I don't think we can diminish the degree of remorse that no doubt is felt by a parent when a child is injured or killed."

RCMP are continuing to investigate the case and will likely ask the Crown for a recommendation on whether criminal charges are warranted.

Brayford said the Crown has to consider that Pauchay has lost both of his children, and there is no greater punishment than guilt.

He said a second reason for going to court -- to deter other people from making the same mistake -- doesn't apply here.

"The tragic circumstances are going to fulfill that purpose," Brayford said.

Glen Luther, a law professor at the University of Saskatchewan, said the Crown traditionally considers whether criminal charges are in the public's best interest and whether there is a reasonable likelihood for a conviction.

In this case, the Crown must also look at Pauchay's devastating loss, as well as his own injuries, he said.

"With the dad in hospital and so on, I think they have a hard decision to make."

Luther said possible charges include failing to provide the necessities of life and the more serious offence of criminal negligence causing death, most often seen in driving cases.

Brayford said criminal negligence causing death is a very serious charge, on par with manslaughter, and carries a maximum life sentence.

[Jbrink]

I think we should just look at the situation for what it is- a tragedy that has resulted from poor decisions that were influenced by alcohol. Two girls are dead and they didn't stand a chance out in the elements. Time will tell what will happen in terms of the investigation and whether charges will be laid. I think we can (or should) all agree that it is unfortunate that these children died so young. I don't think we should resort to name-calling or talking down to people who are only posting here because they feel a sense of outrage over this tragedy. Just because someone feels the father is to blame doesn't mean they should be talked down to or have their opinions belittled. But for the father's actions that night, these two girls would probably still be alive. I believe Jace (sorry if I have that wrong) stated that there are many other posts about crimes that reflect all income levels, all backgrounds. The point was no matter who the parent was, the tragedy would be no less (or greater) if children died as a result of his/her actions. MOO.

[duncan]

Thank you for the update Jbrink, I understand why the dad may not be charged but I would like to see a court order issued to make sure he will not be in control of children ever again.

Justice should be tempered with mercy and locking this man up changes nothing but he should never have the opportunity to kill another child .


imo

[Jbrink]

I agree duncan. One of the articles posted mentioned the girls' mother is pregnant, but I don't know if the father of the dead girls is the father of her baby (gosh, that sounds so confusing). From what I understand, the mother and father do not live together, so maybe it's not his baby (who knows...)

Here is the latest update after the community meeting yesterday.

snipped-

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/saskatoon/story.html?id=28*2a47a-1613-4148-be69-38c347fca8d1&k=33306

Yellow Quill chief proposing drug and alcohol treatment centre

By Matt Kruchak, TheStarPhoenix.com
Published: Thursday, February 07, 2008

YELLOW QUILL FIRST NATION — Kids played with puppies outside the Yellow Quill First Nation community hall Thursday afternoon. Indoors, adults discussed their future.

The meeting for residents of the bruised community is the first step in the healing process, said Margaret Roper, a Yellow Quill social worker who helped organize the gathering. About 50 people filed into the hall to vent their feelings, address concerns and begin taking steps toward a healthier community.

Earlier in the day, Chief Robert Whitehead announced the band plans to submit a proposal to the provincial and federal governments for a drug and alcohol treatment center.

The community, located 260 kilometres east of Saskatoon, has suffered from the effects of alcohol abuse, high unemployment and inadequate housing for decades. But many said it took the death of two young girls for the community to come together.

Last Tuesday, Christopher Pauchay, who had reportedly been drinking, decided to take his daughters — Kaydance, 3, and Santana, 1 — to a neighbour’s home. With the two girls wearing only T-shirts and diapers, they headed into the early morning as temperatures dipped to –50 C. The children didn’t make it. Christopher was found suffering from hypothermia and frostbite on a neighbour’s doorstep. His children were later found frozen to death.

“We’re looking at a sunrise here,” Roper said. “What we want to do is offer a better future for our children. Give some hope to our children.”

Media was asked to stay out of the meeting, which Roper said went better than expected.

“I just feel wonderful right now and we’re moving towards a better future for ourselves, for our children. I know there’s a magnitude of problems that we need to address. Like I said, this is a beginning to something positive.”

Residents are beginning to realize they need to come together if they want to deal with the issues destroying the community, said Marilyn Gilbert, after leaving the gathering. Weekly community meetings will be organized.

In the years to come, Michael Campeau wants to see the return to traditional First Nations ways — but modelled after closed Mennonite communities.

“They keep their stuff within their walls. They teach their culture. They provide for themselves and whatever’s left over they take out to the community on the outside and sell it and get their economic development that way,” he said.

Re-establishing traditional customs is crucial to fixing the fractured community, said George Peequaquat, who spent 10 years in a residential school.

“Let’s resolve some of these issues, and it’s not pointing fingers at everybody, but dealing with things,” the support worker at the Yellow Quill school said. “When you start doing this you have to look within yourself because it starts at home.”

Standing outside the band office, Whitehead announced plans for a local drug and alcohol treatment centre focusing on Aboriginal culture to gathered media.

“A lot of our people, when we send them to (regular) treatment centres they come back in worse shape than when they went in,” he said.

Roper sees the creation of a centre as an important step to addressing issues the First Nation faces with alcohol.

“People don’t want to leave the reserve because they’re so used to being at home and the cultural support is here. Our language is still well and alive and if they go into another area then they’re scared.”

The project is in partnership with Fishing Lake and Knishton First Nations, Whitehead said, adding a location has yet to be determined.

[sardoodledom]

Are we going to be as vicious 6 months from now when babies are being left in hot cars by wealthy, educated parents to die, or will we say, "Oh, they were overworked and it was just an accident. They're punishing themselves enough as it is."

I doubt it.

[duncan]

Originally posted by sardoodledom
Are we going to be as vicious 6 months from now when babies are being left in hot cars by wealthy, educated parents to die, or will we say, "Oh, they were overworked and it was just an accident. They're punishing themselves enough as it is."

I doubt it. [/*]


I think you will surprised, the posters have a tender heart for children and react the same way at all abuse/neglect stories, adults must put the health and welfare of any child above their own needs or wants.

[duncan]

Thank you again Jbrink, gives me hope for the rest of the children, perhaps this tradgedy hurt them enough that they will change, it also sounds like they want to control their future and that is always good and powerful when you are willing to work to support your own self rather than expect the taxpayers to support you.

[txfemale45]

He is 100% responsible for his actions..

but what about the people that knew about his drinking problem and left them babies with him..

My X-husband is a alcoholic and I made sure he was not left alone with our daughter or she was never in the car with him driving....

[Jbrink]

A very valid point txfemale45. I'm sure the mother and grandmother must be playing with so many "if onlys". I hope there is some updates on the investigation soon.

[txfemale45]

After years and years of I will get help I will stop drinking when my daughter was 10 and had started raising his voice at her I divorced him and he never used his visitations.... he is now in prison for the 2nd time for DWI'S

[duncan]

txfemale:rose:


and a hug too:wreath:

My first husand was addicted to drugs and never left alone with my daughters.

[txfemale45]

I think there is a very big problem with young mothers wanting a break from the kids they would leave them with anyone.....

[Jbrink]

txfemale45 thank you for being courageous enough to share your story. Sometimes these boards are not an easy place to be honest. Thank you.

[Jbrink]

Some of the recent posts make me wonder if Children's Aid has ever been called out to the home? Although the conditions on most reserves (in Canada and from what I've gathered from media reports) are so terrible, not many children are living in what most would consider "suitable conditions". So if the conditions are bad across the board, I don't think CAS comes in and removes the children. I guess it's just a very complicated issue. Sorry if this sounded rambling. All MOO.


Here's another more recent article, but I have not heard anything about charges/autopsies etc. I guess it is still under investigation because I am sure they would at least announce no charges would be pressed if that was the case (??)

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/02/08/yellow-quill-treatment.html

Yellow Quill chief calls for treatment centre

The chief of the First Nation where two girls were found frozen to death last week is calling for the establishment of a new substance abuse treatment centre.

Yellow Quill First Nation Chief Robert Whitehead said the proposed centre would follow Saulteaux traditions. Speaking to reporters on Thursday, Whitehead said he hopes to take the plan to the provincial government in the near future.
Social conditions on Yellow Quill have made headlines across the country since the death of toddlers Santana and Kaydance Pauchay last week. The girls, aged one and three, were found in a snowy field dressed only in tops and diapers.

Their father had taken them outside in wind chills that made it feel like it was -50 C. Police have been investigating why, and have said alcohol may have been a factor.

Whitehead and other people in the community have talked about chronic social issues on the reserve and possible solutions — including an alcohol ban and a treatment centre.

"I think that a treatment centre is some place where our people can actually heal," he said. "Our people need to heal."

Whitehead was also emphasizing the community's need to heal in private.

After asking reporters last week to stay away the reserve during the funerals and several days after, he has again asked reporters to give the community some space.




I wonder if the father will go into some kind of treatment after he is released from the hospital???

[txfemale45]

If the mother or grandmother knew he was drinking when the girls were dropped off to him they have some responsibility in this too.. Remember the father that had the thing on his car that a sober person had to blow into for the car to work and the mom sent her daughters with him to blow in it.. she went to prison...

[duncan]

Originally posted by txfemale45
If the mother or grandmother knew he was drinking when the girls were dropped off to him they have some responsibility in this too.. Remember the father that had the thing on his car that a sober person had to blow into for the car to work and the mom sent her daughters with him to blow in it.. she went to prison... [/*]


I want the children to be safe, so any adult who was neglectful should be restrained from having any contact with children, putting all these folk in jail is not the answer . omo

I like the idea of enforcing tribal law, and as I recall my history lessons if one did not work one did not eat, no entitlements, you work for your own food and shelter.

[Jbrink]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/02/12/yellow-quill-deaths.html

snip-

Treatment centre possible on Sask. reserve where girls died, minister says

The Saskatchewan government will look at proposals for an addictions treatment centre on the Yellow Quill reserve where two little girls died earlier this month, First Nations and Métis Relations Minister June Draude says.

"I believe that if the proposal looks like it's going to be of value to the children, and that means all levels of government agree on it, there will be public support," Draude said Tuesday.

Her remarks came two weeks after two sisters, ages 3 and 15 months, were taken outside in the middle of the night in -40 C weather.

They were later found dead in a field wearing light clothing. The coroner said hypothermia killed them. The RCMP think alcohol was a factor in the deaths and have been questioning the father.

Since the tragedy, people in the community have been talking about social problems on the reserve, located about 250 kilometres east of Saskatoon.

Chief Robert Whitehead wants an addictions treatment facility centred on culture and tradition.

It's a project that would likely need support from all levels of government.

Draude, whose Kelvington-Wadena constituency includes Yellow Quill, said she hasn't seen the proposal for a treatment centre, but is willing to listen.

"Everyone in the nation was very upset when we lost those two young children," she said. "We will look at any proposal we think will alleviate the situation to make sure that never happens again."

[Jbrink]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/02/15/bernstein-yellow-quill.html

snipped-

Children's advocate wants review of Yellow Quill freezing deaths

Saskatchewan's children's advocate is calling for a review of the circumstances surrounding the freezing deaths of two children on the Yellow Quill aboriginal reserve last month.

Children's advocate Marvin Bernstein told First Nations chiefs in Saskatoon Thursday that he wants to learn more about the adequacy of support services provided by different levels of government at Yellow Quill, which is about 250 kilometres east of Saskatoon.

"What I am saying is that there needs to be some independent systemic review," Bernstein said at a gathering of the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations. "How that would take shape, who would conduct it, would it be a partnership, would it be through an inquest process, would it be through a child-death investigation process — we haven't determined that."

On the reserve, 25-year-old Christopher Pauchy is the focus of a criminal investigation. His family has said he had been drinking before he left the house with his two daughters in the middle of the night on Jan. 29. The girls, one-year-old Santana and three-year-old Kaydance, were found frozen to death in a snowy field.

Some people on the reserve have said Yellow Quill has been struggling with substance abuse problems for many years. It has been reported that the home where the children were living didn't have a phone.

"If these had been aboriginal children living off reserve or non-aboriginal children, would the same fate have befallen them?" Bernstein asked.

[Jbrink]

Just wanted to say that I check for updates on news sites daily to see if there will be any charges or any updates on the father. So far, I haven't seen anything since the Feb 15th article I posted above. I haven't forgotten about these two girls and will keep looking and listening for news.

[Jbrink]

Dad charged in girls' freezing deaths on Sask. reserve

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/05/01/freezing-deaths.html

The father of two little girls who perished in extreme cold earlier this year on a Saskatchewan First Nation reserve has been charged with criminal negligence causing death, the mother says.

The mother, Tracy Jimmy, told the Canadian Press that Christopher Pauchay went quietly when police came to the couple's home to arrest him.

RCMP did not confirm the name of the man arrested or the victims when they announced the charges Wednesday, saying only a 24-year-old male from the Yellow Quill First Nation had been charged Tuesday "specifically for failing to provide protection from exposure to the elements."

RCMP officials said names would be released, as is usual, when the suspect makes his first appearance in provincial court in Rose Valley, Sask., on May 21. He has been released from custody.

Kaydance Pauchay, 3, and her 16-month-old sister Santana were found frozen in a snowy field Jan. 29 and 30 on the reserve after their father took them outside, lightly dressed, in a wind chill that made the temperature feel like it was below -40 C.

Christopher Pauchay was treated for frostbite and hypothermia.

At the time, police said they were investigating and that alcohol may have been a factor.

The story made national headlines and shocked the Yellow Quill community, located about 260 kilometres east of Saskatoon. Even now, residents are struggling to come to grips with the tragedy.

"We thought we were in the process of healing, but I guess not," community social worker Margaret Roper told CBC News, her voice wavering.

The Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations and Robert Whitehead, the chief of the Yellow Quill First Nation, both declined comment.

[Jbrink]

Dad pleads guilty in kids' deaths


http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/529938

Lawyer says man should get conditional sentence for letting toddler, baby freeze in Saskatchewan

Nov 04, 2008 04:30 AM


Chris Purdy
The Canadian Press

ROSE VALLEY, Sask.–The father of two girls found frozen in a snowy field last winter sat sobbing in his courtroom chair yesterday after pleading guilty to criminal negligence causing death.

Christopher Pauchay, 24, of the Yellow Quill First Nation in Saskatchewan stood and nodded "yes" to the plea at what was to be the start of his trial in a makeshift courtroom in nearby Rose Valley.

Minutes later, he sat in his chair, his bandaged hands to his face, and wept. Pauchay is still recovering from the severe frostbite he suffered after spending hours in the bitter cold the day his daughters froze to death.

Pauchay's lawyer, Ron Piche, said he believes his client should serve a conditional sentence in the community and will ask the judge to allow an aboriginal sentencing circle to recommend his client's fate. The application is to be heard Dec. 5 in Rose Valley.

Crown prosecutor Marylynne Beaton said she cannot agree to such an arrangement and plans to argue that Pauchay should serve more than two years in a federal prison.

Kaydance Pauchay, 3, and her 1-year-old sister, Santana, became separated from their father after the three left their home on the reserve in the early morning of Jan. 29. The temperature would have felt like -50C with the wind chill.

The girls were found wearing only diapers and T-shirts.

The single charge of criminal negligence causing death covered the deaths of both children and was laid to address a failure "to provide protection from exposure to the elements."

Piche said his client had been drinking that night and has only a vague memory of what happened.

"Being in the frame of mind that he was, he recalls one of his daughters having fallen and injuring herself. And that was his motivation in leaving the residence that night. ... . He was going to try to get help for his daughter."

Piche said Pauchay was a doting father, who feels tremendous guilt, and didn't want to go through the pain of a trial.

Piche said he believes public opinion is split on what should happen to Pauchay.

"There is part of the public out there that says, `Hang him at dawn'... . There's the other contingent out there – I would say the majority – who say he's suffered enough.

"He made a tragic mistake. It did indeed cost the lives of his young girls, but he's paid for that. He'll pay for it for the rest of his life."

A handful of family members accompanied Pauchay to court, including his uncle, Michael Pauchay.

"He can't deny the babies justice. That's why he changed the plea to guilty," he said outside court.

Sheila Pauchay said her brother has stopped drinking and is working hard to improve his life. But she doubts an end to the court case will bring any closure to her family.

"It's not going to heal, never will. ... Nothing's going to bring them back."

Pauchay's common-law wife, who publicly said she would stand by him when he was charged, did not attend court yesterday. The couple had another baby girl earlier this year.

After Pauchay became separated from his two daughters last January, he eventually made it to a neighbour's house and was taken to hospital suffering from severe frostbite and hypothermia.

Eight hours later, when he was able to speak, he asked about his children.

That set off a frantic search that ended hours later in a snowy field when the girls were found dead.

Piche said he already has eight people on a list to attend the sentencing circle. They are people who know Pauchay and can talk about what happened and the effect it has had on the reserve.

"It's not an easy ride for an accused," Piche said.

In the end, the sentence will be decided by the judge. He would take part in the circle and consider sentencing recommendations the participants made.

The 900-member Yellow Quill First Nation has been plagued for decades by alcohol abuse, high unemployment and a lack of suitable housing.

Following the girls' deaths, Chief Robert Whitehead called for an addictions treatment centre on the reserve. A plan is still in the works and in the hands of the Saskatoon Tribal Council, he said.

There was much talk of change on the reserve last winter after the community's troubles were thrust into the national spotlight.

But nine months later, some on the reserve say change has been slow to come, while others say nothing is different.

Band member Margaret Roper, a child and family services worker who wants to become the reserve's new chief, said it has been difficult convincing people that they can work together to make the community about 225 kilometres east of Saskatoon "better, safer, happier."

[Amy]

No consolation, but I read that freezing to death is uncomfortable very briefly, and then a warmth envelops the victim.

:rose:

As I was reading, I was thinking, too bad they weren't together, not that it would make the death any less heartbreaking, but they could have comforted each other (held each other.)

[Amy]

Sask. reserve where 2 sisters died tried to ban alcohol: chief

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/01/31/toddlers-deaths.html

The Globe and Mail quoted the man's older sister, Bernita Pauchay, as saying he had been drinking heavily on Monday night.

She said he was trying to take the children to a relative's house about 400 metres away because "there was something wrong" with one of them.

The RCMP have only said alcohol may have been a factor. Christopher Pauchay has been taken to a Saskatoon hospital where police are expected to interview him again on Thursday.

According to the article, he WAS @ a neighbor's house about 11:30pm--if he was wanting to get help because there was something wrong w/one of them, what would have been so difficult for him to have taken the little one into the neighbor's house w/him, or possibly to have mentioned to the neighbor he needed help?

[Amy]

No, not alone. All the drinking buddies are there. Wakes are sometimes a good excuse to drink again.. Have another one...it was just little children. None of you were responsible.:cuss:

"We've been trying to get the reserve to be dry."

"How are you coping, uncle?" "I'm having a beer." GEEESH!!!! I don't know about uncle--but is dad going to wake up and smell the coffee now, and work on getting sober, or is this going to give him a forever excuse to keep drinking?

The dad is taken to the funeral so he and the mother can say goodbye to the girls--mom is pregnant w/the third child. Prayers follow this poor little one-to-be----hope she doesn't fall to the same fate.

Yep, dad is sorry, and he will carry the guilt and burden the rest of his life (meaning, hey, don't charge this grieving father with the death of his girls.) How many parents are castigated (and some charged w/murder, some not) when they let their babies die in hot cars?

[Amy]

Hmmm, I guess it would be like drinking beer at the funeral of a friend/family member who died as result of a drunk driving incident... IMO.

Didn't his family state that he had been drinking??? Cuz didn't his sister say 'he is another person when he drinks?"

How long could one last in those temps??? Not long, not long at all..... in fact in those temps it only takes MINUTES for frostbite to set in.... and why does what HE was wearing matter??? He managed to survive.... didn't he????

As for simulating the event.... how can you??? Do you know if they had snow standing on the ground??? If so, how much, do you know how hard it is to run in snow??? Especially once it's started to get that ice on the top that breaks w/your every step. You cannot completely simulate this.

I do believe it was a very difficult trek for him... however, he managed to survive and two innocent children were ditched into a snowbank and dead in no time.... all of which was due to his stupidity due to his being drunk. Plain & Simple.

I agree. He did have one factor that probably helped him survive--alcohol. Works a tad bit like antifreeze in the ol' car. There have been accidents in winter involving drunk driving, and one of the reasons given for survivors is that they had alcohol in their systems, and it would take longer to freeze to death.

Sounds like this fellow has lived all his life on the reservation. Surely he knows how dang cold it is---and even if a little one needs attention, and there is no phone, or no way to get an ambulance---it should be kind of like a routine action, that one would put clothing (and lots of layers) on kids when they are taken outside.

I think it all comes down to the alcohol. I hate it when people say--it was the alcohol or the drugs--they didn't know what they were doing. Well, when they are sober, they know that alcohol and drugs make them do things they normally wouldn't, things they can't remember. So, if they go ahead and imbibe, they ARE responsible for their actions under the influence, IMO.

[Amy]

Are we going to be as vicious 6 months from now when babies are being left in hot cars by wealthy, educated parents to die, or will we say, "Oh, they were overworked and it was just an accident. They're punishing themselves enough as it is."

I doubt it.

When those cases come up, there are plenty of posters who think the parent(s) should be charged with something. Even the wealthy ones. I have seen a class distinction in these cases. I don't know if any were in the same areas, but it did seem there was never even any contemplation about charging the doctors who left their babies to die in the heat, but there have been other parents who have been. They were just regular, ordinary joes and janes, tho.

[Amy]

I want the children to be safe, so any adult who was neglectful should be restrained from having any contact with children, putting all these folk in jail is not the answer . omo

I like the idea of enforcing tribal law, and as I recall my history lessons if one did not work one did not eat, no entitlements, you work for your own food and shelter.

That is the way it should be everywhere, IMO.

I do see that there had been efforts to deal w/the problems that are faced on the reservation. And, they went after those problems w/gusto @ the recent meeting. Maybe, the tragedy was what brought some of the residents around to seeing that the changes need to be made. And, getting treatment/counseling close to home is helpful, too.