Frustrated

[day2day]

Yep..it has been a very sad week here in the bluegrass state. Christa was taken from us in an instant. Helping people -thats what she always did...and this time it cost her-her life. As she helped a pregnant woman across an icy highway after a minor accident they were BOTH struck and killed by a coal truck. My community has lost a great paramedic and i have lost a great friend. :(

And my friend Jason-he has everything to live for. A wonderful wife, 2 beautiful littleones and great career...and the sad part-an addiction to opiates that he just can't beat. He tried to take his own life Tuesday night...he was not successful (thank GOD)..

And my littleone who thinks since there is NO school because of the hazardous roads (and the accident above) that my time is BEST spent making and delivering hot chocolate(with whipped cream) to her tray as she lays in MY bed in her jammies watching Game Plan (over and over)..
so YES-i am FRUSTRATED!

Which brings me to Mr. Gricar-
I have NEVER been to PA. -let alone Centre County..but after seeing Mr.Gricar's picture and reading about him -i had to know more..that brought me here...almost from day1.

BUT if you would have asked me then -if i thought this case would still be unsolved THREE years later i would not have said no-i would have said HELL NO!

Afterall-this man spent TWENTY years of his life serving the citizens of Centre County and surely if ANY missing persons case can be solved -this would be the one. (boy would i have been wrong)

I have watched nearly every interview Tony Gricar has done and cried watching him. This man has been through SO much in his life and still has the strength and courage to seek the truth. I am sure wherever Mr. Gricar is -he would be so proud.

As for PF-I have always had a "feeling" about her. I don't know why-can't explain it. I just think if she wasnt directly involved in Mr. Gricar's vanishing then she knows WAY more than she is saying..
I watched her interview -saw her "crocodile tears" and heard her words..YET imo her actions have NEVER seemed like the actions of one who has lost her "soulmate"..

Just one example: she goes to work DAILY for the man who single handedly holds this case BACK. IF my "soulmate" vanished -I would sweep the streets before I gave this man ONE ounce of my efforts. Period.

I have been told by several people that in crime-coincidences just DON'T exist..yet this case is FULL of them...

And every single person who posts here . You are all angels in my book. Even though we haven't always seen eye to eye. IF one of my loved ones vanished..I could only HOPE that you would all be here searching for the TRUTH..no matter how long it takes!!!

Someone ...somewhere needs to break the silence...It is killing me...
jmo....

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm sorry for your personal losses.

I'm actually seeing some hope and think that we might see more openness on the part of police.

[Laws]

Steve Biddle http://stbee.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_archive.html
Tuesday, April 19, 2005
Where's The District Attorney?
It's not too often that our little area of central Pennsylvania makes the national news. Unless, of course, Penn State has a great football season. So it's been awhile. And now, we're not stopping the presses at the New York Times topping the news on Fox or CNN. But this story is showing up here and there across the country, and it's the main topic of conversation 'round these parts.

Understandable, too. See, the Centre County District Attorney vanished on Friday. Poof. Read the story here, if you'd like. Ray Gricar's been the DA since 1985, and is known as a straight-shooter, serious fellow, not given to flamboyance. Although he's a prosecutor, those who know about these things really can't think of a single case he's prosecuted where someone would be likely to come gunning for him. No mental or medical problems as far as anyone knows, likewise no gambling debts.

On Friday morning about 11:30, Ray called his office, in which his girlfriend works as a clerk. He told her he was taking the day off, and was driving along Route 192 in Brush Valley, a picturesque rural area. That's fairly typical -- he often takes long drives in the country as a stress-buster. But that's the last anyone's heard of him.

On Saturday, they found his Mini-Cooper near the Susquehanna River in Lewisburg (that's about 45 miles from Bellefonte, the county seat of Centre County) and the home of Bucknell University. No sign of the DA. No evidence of foul play, either. He's just gone.

One odd note: About ten years ago, his brother, Roy Gricar, vanished without a trace. His body turned up in a river a couple of weeks later. His death was ruled a suicide by drowning.

I have a feeling that this will become one of those mysteries which never gets solved. [/*]
That in April of 2015, the Centre Daily Times will do an article about how District Attorney Ray Gricar vanished without a trace ten years ago, and how the trail went cold long ago. Hope not. But that's what I think.
posted by Steve @ 4/19/2005 11:01:00 AM



Day, I think your initial belief that this reported case of Ray Gricar in April of 2005 would be solved is normal, don't you think that the above is rather RARE at that point in time??????????

According to his blog, he maintained, at that time, a rented apartment for work purposes as he & his wife's permanent residence sounds to be in Central PA. He doesn't appear to be blogging since 2006 is he still working in the area, I wonder.

Maybe Bellefonte BPD read his prediction & figured they need not conduct an investigation. Have thought a lot about this & we have seen cases where people have been "found" law enforcement makes a public announcement that they have been located that no foul play was involved, does not release the location to anybody & closes their case. There is NOTHING NORMAL ABOUT THE TREATMENT RAY GRICAR'S CASE HAS RECEIVED. Any other cases that has been treated in this manner is normally believed to be CORRUPT.

[Serendipitous1]

day2day: Sorry for your...most recent...loss. Hang in there.

Laws: SB is still at WPSU. Maybe you, or someone, should ask him why he felt that way.
http://wpsx.ois.psu.edu/www/wpsu.org/radio/contact.html

[Laws]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
day2day: Sorry for your...most recent...loss. Hang in there.

Laws: SB is still at WPSU. Maybe you, or someone, should ask him why he felt that way.
http://wpsx.ois.psu.edu/www/wpsu.org/radio/contact.html [/*]

Thank you for the link. I did post a question in that blog thinking that he would be informed of a new post but rethinking that I was completely wrong making such an assumption.

[J. J. in Phila]

You locals might wish to check the local news. Heard a rumor about remains being discovered.

[Politigal]

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/503988.html

[Politigal]

the official report

http://extras.altoonamirror.com/Crimes/Documents/rockview611.pdf

says it will take several months to possibly identify the remains

[Politigal]

http://www.visitpa.com/visitpa/tripgenViewMap.pa?transaction=locMap&template=map&recordId=64618&attractionId=64618&name=Bald+Eagle+State+Park

location

[J. J. in Phila]

Official statement.

http://extras.altoonamirror.com/Crimes/Documents/rockview611.pdf

[Politigal]

"Houston, we have contact......"

I'm betting this is Gricar. It's only about 12 miles from his home, 9 miles from Patty's brother's home, etc.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal
"Houston, we have contact......"

I'm betting this is Gricar. It's only about 12 miles from his home, 9 miles from Patty's brother's home, etc. [/*]

Wrong direction, not on the road to Lewisburg. It would support a luring, but that distance is pretty far.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Wrong direction, not on the road to Lewisburg. It would support a luring, but that distance is pretty far. [/*]

I'm going with murder...

[Politigal]

how very sad for RG's family having to wait this out....

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
I'm sorry for your personal losses.

I'm actually seeing some hope and think that we might see more openness on the part of police. [/*]


Thank you JJ. And even though we havent always seen eye to eye..I really do admire you for hanging around!!!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal


I'm going with murder... [/*]

I'm not going with this being RFG, since we don't even have the gender of the remains yet.

[day2day]

Originally posted by Laws
Steve Biddle http://stbee.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_archive.html
Tuesday, April 19, 2005
Where's The District Attorney?
It's not too often that our little area of central Pennsylvania makes the national news. Unless, of course, Penn State has a great football season. So it's been awhile. And now, we're not stopping the presses at the New York Times topping the news on Fox or CNN. But this story is showing up here and there across the country, and it's the main topic of conversation 'round these parts.

Understandable, too. See, the Centre County District Attorney vanished on Friday. Poof. Read the story here, if you'd like. Ray Gricar's been the DA since 1985, and is known as a straight-shooter, serious fellow, not given to flamboyance. Although he's a prosecutor, those who know about these things really can't think of a single case he's prosecuted where someone would be likely to come gunning for him. No mental or medical problems as far as anyone knows, likewise no gambling debts.

On Friday morning about 11:30, Ray called his office, in which his girlfriend works as a clerk. He told her he was taking the day off, and was driving along Route 192 in Brush Valley, a picturesque rural area. That's fairly typical -- he often takes long drives in the country as a stress-buster. But that's the last anyone's heard of him.

On Saturday, they found his Mini-Cooper near the Susquehanna River in Lewisburg (that's about 45 miles from Bellefonte, the county seat of Centre County) and the home of Bucknell University. No sign of the DA. No evidence of foul play, either. He's just gone.

One odd note: About ten years ago, his brother, Roy Gricar, vanished without a trace. His body turned up in a river a couple of weeks later. His death was ruled a suicide by drowning.

I have a feeling that this will become one of those mysteries which never gets solved. [/*]
That in April of 2015, the Centre Daily Times will do an article about how District Attorney Ray Gricar vanished without a trace ten years ago, and how the trail went cold long ago. Hope not. But that's what I think.
posted by Steve @ 4/19/2005 11:01:00 AM



Day, I think your initial belief that this reported case of Ray Gricar in April of 2005 would be solved is normal, don't you think that the above is rather RARE at that point in time??????????

According to his blog, he maintained, at that time, a rented apartment for work purposes as he & his wife's permanent residence sounds to be in Central PA. He doesn't appear to be blogging since 2006 is he still working in the area, I wonder.

Maybe Bellefonte BPD read his prediction & figured they need not conduct an investigation. Have thought a lot about this & we have seen cases where people have been "found" law enforcement makes a public announcement that they have been located that no foul play was involved, does not release the location to anybody & closes their case. There is NOTHING NORMAL ABOUT THE TREATMENT RAY GRICAR'S CASE HAS RECEIVED. Any other cases that has been treated in this manner is normally believed to be CORRUPT. [/*]


Laws..
SO nice to see you !! I am again in shock :(...

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
day2day: Sorry for your...most recent...loss. Hang in there.

Laws: SB is still at WPSU. Maybe you, or someone, should ask him why he felt that way.
http://wpsx.ois.psu.edu/www/wpsu.org/radio/contact.html [/*]

Thanks S1..
For everything ...:)

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


I'm not going with this being RFG, since we don't even have the gender of the remains yet. [/*]

If I am not mistaken Cindy Song is also missing from this county?

[day2day]

Originally posted by Politigal
how very sad for RG's family having to wait this out.... [/*]


Right. I know I will be saying extra prayers for them. Im wonderin just how they found these remains :(

[Politigal]

Originally posted by day2day


Thanks S1..
For everything ...:) [/*]

I found several articles online about the tragic accident....sorry you lost a friend

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22785087/

----

and on Howard, PA - wasn't Leathers from there?

[gstickley]

Do you realize how many times this particular area has previously been discussed on this forum? Do you realize how many posters have zeroed in on this particular area?

[Politigal]

Originally posted by day2day


If I am not mistaken Cindy Song is also missing from this county? [/*]

that's true...I wonder how many other missing persons they have in that county?

[day2day]

Originally posted by Politigal


I found several articles online about the tragic accident....sorry you lost a friend

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22785087/

----

and on Howard, PA - wasn't Leathers from there? [/*]


:mad: that is the accident pgal. (Sorry I should have posted a link)..
I am scramblin my brain tryin to think of what CB and the others visions were..
somethin bout 15?!..I cannot FIND my tape of her show :((

[Politigal]

Originally posted by gstickley
Do you realize how many times this particular area has previously been discussed on this forum? Do you realize how many posters have zeroed in on this particular area? [/*]

that was the first area I looked at, after I eliminated walkaway in my mind....

only because of the park, the water there, etc. and the proximity to Bellefonte.

I wish Logic was here.....I know she posted a great deal about the area.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day


If I am not mistaken Cindy Song is also missing from this county? [/*]

As is Brenda Louise Condon, and she was last seen just south of Bellefonte.

Another possibility is a transient, hiker or hunter. A possible natural death.

TG has, unfortunately, been through this before.

[day2day]

Originally posted by gstickley
Do you realize how many times this particular area has previously been discussed on this forum? Do you realize how many posters have zeroed in on this particular area? [/*]


Eerie ...isn't it? I wonder HOW they freakin found this body..

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


As is Brenda Louise Condon, and she was last seen just south of Bellefonte.

Another possibility is a transient, hiker or hunter. A possible natural death.

TG has, unfortunately, been through this before. [/*]

I cant stop cryin here. Been one of those weeks for me. And for some odd reason (no i am in no way psychic) i have been worried about tg today.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by day2day


I cant stop cryin here. Been one of those weeks for me. And for some odd reason (no i am in no way psychic) i have been worried about tg today. [/*]

I can usually tell when he's online because his little yahoo smiley face is lit up, but I just checked and he's not on right now.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by day2day



Eerie ...isn't it? I wonder HOW they freakin found this body.. [/*]

yep - I'd like to know if it was a hiker, a hunter, or who that found the remains

[day2day]

Originally posted by Politigal


I can usually tell when he's online because his little yahoo smiley face is lit up, but I just checked and he's not on right now. [/*]

Thanks pgal. If you talk to him please tell him I am thinkin bout him.

[day2day]

Originally posted by Politigal


yep - I'd like to know if it was a hiker, a hunter, or who that found the remains [/*]


me too. this could be a long couple months :(

[Politigal]

If these remains are Gricar, and if he met with foul play or suicide, you would think that his keys, wallet, etc might possibly be there also.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal


I found several articles online about the tragic accident....sorry you lost a friend

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22785087/

----

and on Howard, PA - wasn't Leathers from there? [/*]

It was is the general area of the Leathers family.

[Serendipitous1]

“They basically had somebody eye it up,” Madeira said. “As I understand it, it’s more bones and bone fragments than it is an actual body.”

But Madeira said preliminary indications are the bones had been in Howard Township for a “long, long time.”

Edit: “More than five years, but that’s very preliminary,” Madeira said.

http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/356479.html

[day2day]

Originally posted by Politigal
If these remains are Gricar, and if he met with foul play or suicide, you would think that his keys, wallet, etc might possibly be there also. [/*]

I would hope so pgal.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
“They basically had somebody eye it up,” Madeira said. “As I understand it, it’s more bones and bone fragments than it is an actual body.”

But Madeira said preliminary indications are the bones had been in Howard Township for a “long, long time.”

Edit: “More than five years, but that’s very preliminary,” Madeira said.

http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/356479.html [/*]

thanks for the update...

[Laws]

Is that normal procedure when skeletal remains being found there not being any description of how or who discovered them?

The few times it has happened in our area, they give ya some details, is everything a secret in PA?

[day2day]

Originally posted by Laws
Is that normal procedure when skeletal remains being found there not being any description of how or who discovered them?

The few times it has happened in our area, they give ya some details, is everything a secret in PA? [/*]

EVERYTHING is secret..:(

[J. J. in Phila]

If I had to bet, I'd bet Condon. She was last seen within 10 miles. Song and RFG were a bit sooner and last seen further away.

[tonyGricar]

No news on this end. We've been through this several times and we don't usually contact anyone until remainds are ID'd. If we started the telephone chain everytime, even with BPD, it would be one ridiculous rollercoaster ride of emotion.

Btw, this is why I usually bring up how long suicides, or foul play, can go undetected. Parks often take years to give up their dead.

[tonyGricar]

Whoever it is, I hope it clears up a mystery for some family out there. My gut tells me it's not Ray, but I have hopes that it's one of the local missing.

[puzzled]

Tony I hope this does not sound bad but I am hoping that it is Ray. That way maybe we can get some resolution. I know your family deserves "closure." I have never stopped praying that this case will be resolved! I feel in my heart that it will be. I don't post much because I feel that I may have offended you in the past without meaning to. There is no way in the world I would EVER want to tick you off! I have tremendous admiration for you! Stay safe always. God bless you TOTG. My gut tells me it is your beloved uncle that has been found.:)

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by puzzled
I don't post much because I feel that I may have offended you in the past without meaning to. [/*]Short of Lustromaine, ParlourElephant, and well... one other, I'm not readily offended nor do I typically hold a grudge.

Post away...

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by tonyGricar <Snip>
Short of Lustromaine, ParlourElephant, and well... one other, I'm not readily offended nor do I typically hold a grudge. Mysteryman's brief but disruptive appearance should get at least a footnote, IMO.

[day2day]

Cindy Song vanished-November 1,2001
Brenda Louise Condone-vanished February 27,1991
http://www.psp.state.pa.us/psp/cwp/view.asp?a=3&Q=38419&pp=12&n=1

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day
Cindy Song vanished-November 1,2001
Brenda Louise Condone-vanished February 27,1991
http://www.psp.state.pa.us/psp/cwp/view.asp?a=3&Q=38419&pp=12&n=1 [/*]

It's possibly Song, but I'd guess from the brief description, it's Condon. It's relatively close to where she was last seen.

If the remains look at least five years out, that rules out RFG. The location isn't really a good fit either.

[Laws]

Let me first, being the sexual gender differentiation type, say that due to the Molly Bish case that was in my area & that some of her clothing was found in the woods away from where her skeletal remains were discovered, in the same woods however would have to know if the landscape was searched in depth under decomposing leaves, et al by a crew & if so how wide was the grid, what methodology was utilized. I would have to know those details. I could not wait until ID of the remains as would fear that further changes could occur in that time period.

If one of my loved ones was even a possibility I would have to know, would have to do what I could while waiting & just like my across the hall neighbor has done for her missing niece of 3 years, would have to go to the area & look for myself once LE was done with the area. Now mind you I would have to use tools to look & have materials for marking in case items were found, don't even doubt that researching a volunteer group to work with, but something that could benefit somebody who was found in this manner.

Do anybody else feel the same way?

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


It's possibly Song, but I'd guess from the brief description, it's Condon. It's relatively close to where she was last seen.

If the remains look at least five years out, that rules out RFG. The location isn't really a good fit either. [/*]

I don't wish this on any family. The waiting would be so hard.
According to MM 5 years is VERY preliminary. I don't know how anyone else feels about him. BUT he bothers me. ..he REALLY does...

JMO

[day2day]

Originally posted by Laws
Let me first, being the sexual gender differentiation type, say that due to the Molly Bish case that was in my area & that some of her clothing was found in the woods away from where her skeletal remains were discovered, in the same woods however would have to know if the landscape was searched in depth under decomposing leaves, et al by a crew & if so how wide was the grid, what methodology was utilized. I would have to know those details. I could not wait until ID of the remains as would fear that further changes could occur in that time period.

If one of my loved ones was even a possibility I would have to know, would have to do what I could while waiting & just like my across the hall neighbor has done for her missing niece of 3 years, would have to go to the area & look for myself once LE was done with the area. Now mind you I would have to use tools to look & have materials for marking in case items were found, don't even doubt that researching a volunteer group to work with, but something that could benefit somebody who was found in this manner.

Do anybody else feel the same way? [/*]


I feel exactly the same as you do. I would be right with you searching. I would have to. I could not sit back and wait.
But thats just me ...:(

[gstickley]

Is the park or areas nearby within the range of the cell phone tower from which RG's phone bounced off?

[Cinderella]

I hate to say this, but the area is almost right in someone's back yard. We have been told numerous times that this person had been cleared. Rockview State Police keep insisting.

I hope that Ray is alive, but I don't have a good feeling about this.

There is also a guy missing from Philipsburg.

A while back we were really discussing Howard Dam. Logic had her maps out and it was connecting a triangle.


----------------------------

Ashamed for what I said to Tony. I have said sorry so many times that he is probably sick of it. I am sorry, but why would he believe me now. Just talking to anyone that is listening.

Two months is a long time to wait for anyone to find out if it is their loved one. :wreath:

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by gstickley
Is the park or areas nearby within the range of the cell phone tower from which RG's phone bounced off? [/*]

I would have to say yes.

[Laws]

Thanks Day, glad it's you too & it probably does have to do with gender & age, LOL, (see that last sentance in my post, that's a hint).

OT, Charles Grodin was on Letterman last night promoting a book he's written, about life lessons. Horrible tragedies caught my attention with the Sharon Tate, LaBianca murders committed by Charles Manson & crew but every one that I've read about has granted me a knowledge & appreciation so much of real & dedicated investigator's & prosecutor's.

Think that has a lot to do with this whole scenario feeling so personal to me, it stirs up a lot of emotion that seems inappropriate but it isn't for I have an extremely deep admiration for people who have served the public in these ways as I believe Ray Gricar did.

He & those like him are heroes to me & many others, every day they deal with evil & consciously made doing the right thing a mission much more substantial than greed & selfishness, caring for others who they had never met before & not being corrupted or made cold from it. Choosing to fight against the corrupt & for the good of many, such fortitude & courage, it is so admirable.

& that is why all theories pointing at a bending of that spirit which I believe was contained within Ray Gricar to the center of his being are not worthy of consideration without evidence, hard data that same could be true because his resume does not reflect a hint of that possibility.

[Cinderella]

Here is a link to a map showing the location of Bald Eagle State Park and Rebersburg.

http://www.stateparks.com/gmaps/curlocation.asp?lat=41.04167&lon=-77.60333&z=12

The red arrow says Blanchard Park, but it is Howard Dam and Joseph Foster Sayers Dam.

I believe that we talked a lot about the dam on Tony's picture site thread.

[day2day]

Originally posted by Laws
Thanks Day, glad it's you too & it probably does have to do with gender & age, LOL, (see that last sentance in my post, that's a hint).

OT, Charles Grodin was on Letterman last night promoting a book he's written, about life lessons. Horrible tragedies caught my attention with the Sharon Tate, LaBianca murders committed by Charles Manson & crew but every one that I've read about has granted me a knowledge & appreciation so much of real & dedicated investigator's & prosecutor's.

Think that has a lot to do with this whole scenario feeling so personal to me, it stirs up a lot of emotion that seems inappropriate but it isn't for I have an extremely deep admiration for people who have served the public in these ways as I believe Ray Gricar did.

He & those like him are heroes to me & many others, every day they deal with evil & consciously made doing the right thing a mission much more substantial than greed & selfishness, caring for others who they had never met before & not being corrupted or made cold from it. Choosing to fight against the corrupt & for the good of many, such fortitude & courage, it is so admirable.

& that is why all theories pointing at a bending of that spirit which I believe was contained within Ray Gricar to the center of his being are not worthy of consideration without evidence, hard data that same could be true because his resume does not reflect a hint of that possibility. [/*]

:D Of course you're right.

It is hard for me to believe that a man like Mr. Ray Gricar could simply fall off the face of this earth and the county..state..nation remains silent.

He surely deserves so much more. I will never buy into the theory of "No stone was left unturned" in this case. I can only pray one day that we all know the real truth.

[Laws]

AMEN !!!!!!!!

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Politigal
"Houston, we have contact......"

I'm betting this is Gricar. It's only about 12 miles from his home, 9 miles from Patty's brother's home, etc. [/*]

I just heard on WTAJ-TV 10 about the remains found in Bald Eagle State Park and the Centre Daily Times says Howard.

http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/356479.html

If the remains are over 5 years as DA Madeira thinks, they could be Brenda Condron or Cindy Song. Or if not as old as MM says, they could be RG. Say a prayer for whoever it is! :rose:

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Politigal


that was the first area I looked at, after I eliminated walkaway in my mind....

only because of the park, the water there, etc. and the proximity to Bellefonte.

I wish Logic was here.....I know she posted a great deal about the area. [/*]

If the area was near Howard as MM says, Bald Eagle State Park is near the Sayers Dam, near JL's home and in fact, almost butts up to his property. Bald Eagle State Park is large though.

I wonder also what led to the remains. Someone talking?

[Cinderella]

Bald Eagle State Park is Sayers Dam.

[Cloudbuster]

We need to Pray for the familys as they await . Let God give them STRENGTH! :rose:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella


I would have to say yes. [/*]

Sorry, but not even close, and there is at least one cell tower in the park, probably 3 miles from any point in the park. There is also a ridge between the Brush Valley tower and the state park.

I just checked and the cell tower in Brush Valley is more than 10 miles away and there is an intervening cell tower.

[Cinderella]

BTW, J.J., How do you do that. Where is the site?

[Cinderella]

Spoke to a friend who lives in Howard about an hour ago and she doesn't know any more than anyone else.

[day2day]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
We need to Pray for the familys as they await . Let God give them STRENGTH! :rose: [/*]

I agree CB. Strength and patience :rose:

[Cloudbuster]

While everyone is giving their gut feeling I have to agree with Tony my guts tell me it's not RG. I am frustrated on the long awaiting answer though.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by day2day


I agree CB. Strength and patience :rose: [/*]

d2d Im sorry for your loss!!! Im also praying for strength for you through this time of loss!!!:rose:

I also owe JJ an apology imagine that lol. JJ Im sorry I been so frustrated latley and I guess i took it out on you and for that IM SORRY!!!! IM SORRY!!!!

[Cinderella]

I love your pink tonight, very calming.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Cinderella
I love your pink tonight, very calming. [/*]

THX CIND!!!!

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster


d2d Im sorry for your loss!!! Im also praying for strength for you through this time of loss!!!:rose:

I also owe JJ an apology imagine that lol. JJ Im sorry I been so frustrated latley and I guess i took it out on you and for that IM SORRY!!!! IM SORRY!!!! [/*]

Cloudbuster first of all why can't I use color? latley is spelled lately. Remember 't also. LOL

[Cinderella]

J. J. I think that the website that LAWS put up is for you. It was how at one time, you described yourself. :read:

http://stbee.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_archive.html

[Cinderella]

How do you use color. Ok, so I won't be so quick to correct you anymore Cloudbuster, just tell me how to use color.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


If the area was near Howard as MM says, Bald Eagle State Park is near the Sayers Dam, near JL's home and in fact, almost butts up to his property. Bald Eagle State Park is large though.

I wonder also what led to the remains. Someone talking? [/*]

I had posted these links a while ago when we were discussing the the murder of Dana in St College, Cindy Song, Brenda Condron and Linda Worrick's murder. I was wondering if this man might have had something to do with the missing Brenda Condron when I posted these articles on the Ray Gricar Links thread. Now more than ever I wonder if the remains could have been due to him. The first link does not work but there was a diary that told of some of the things he did and thought. He was from Howard.

Quote from an ealier posting on Ray Gricar's Links Thread by me:

"7/1/93
BOYER'S DIARY DETAILS GRISLEY PLAN
James Alvin Boyer's murder of 45 yr old Linda Worrick of Bellefonte, a teacher at Orbiston.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...lnk&cd=27&gl=us

9/29/93
BOYER'S ATTORNEY ASK FOR TRIAL TO BE MOVED
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archiv...9-93dnews-5.asp

1/10/94
BOYER SENTENCED TO LIFE IN PRISON
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...lnk&cd=27&gl=us


Last edited by sherrijean981 on 09-26-2007 at 10:49 AM"
Quote

[Cloudbuster]

SJ YOUR links are not SHOWING UP?
Looks interesting though?

CIND just click on color and scroll down to the one you want and write the words in the block line that you want to be that color. You can tease about my spelling roflmao heck I even make jokes about it lol!:rose:

[Cinderella]

Oh, Now I see how to do it... Neat, Thanks CB

[Cloudbuster]

NO PROBLEM!!! Now try your size changes same way.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
SJ YOUR links are not SHOWING UP?
Looks interesting though?
[/*]

Try this link. This one still works if you go to the Ray Gricar Links Thread but you can read it now. Guess they got rid of the info after I posted the links on the other 2. The one about his diary had been interesting.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1993/09/09-29-93tdc/09-29-93dnews-5.asp

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


Try this link. This one still works if you go to the Ray Gricar Links Thread but you can read it now. Guess they got rid of the info after I posted the links on the other 2. The one about his diary had been interesting.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1993/09/09-29-93tdc/09-29-93dnews-5.asp [/*]
SJ THX for the article but was Linda missing? Im just curious. I see where they wanted a change in where the case was to be prosecuted. Change in Venue. If she wasn't missing though are you thinking maybe he had something to do with these remains??

[Cinderella]

Linda Worrick drove the Centre County Bookmobile. Her husband, I think was a police officer who worked at the Drivers Center.

This Boyer wrecked his car or somehow got it in a ditch. He was looking for a ride. Linda picked him up to take him a couple of miles to Howard. She was driving her car. He stabbed her and opened her door and struggled with her and pushed her out the drivers side of the car onto the middle of the road. She died.

A car passing by witnessed it.

I think the change of venue would be because so many people knew her from driving the bookmobile that they might think that he wouldn't get a fair trial.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella
J. J. I think that the website that LAWS put up is for you. It was how at one time, you described yourself. :read:

http://stbee.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_archive.html [/*]

I still am.

[Cinderella]

I agree with you on that point. Don't we all know?

[Politigal]

only other news I've found on the skeletal remains

http://www.wjactv.com/news/15133044/detail.html?rss=john&psp=news

There is no indication of the cause of death, or whether the bones are those of a man or a woman.

[day2day]

Originally posted by Politigal
only other news I've found on the skeletal remains

http://www.wjactv.com/news/15133044/detail.html?rss=john&psp=news

There is no indication of the cause of death, or whether the bones are those of a man or a woman. [/*]

Thanks pgal. Still no word on how they found the "skeletal remains" ...(typical yanno)

[day2day]

1/25/08
Centre Daily Times
http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/356858.html

Centre County Coroner Scott Sayers said he and the anthropologist’s team sifted through the gravel and dirt and found remains, which Sayers’ office will attempt to identify in the next several months.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster

SJ THX for the article but was Linda missing? Im just curious. I see where they wanted a change in where the case was to be prosecuted. Change in Venue. If she wasn't missing though are you thinking maybe he had something to do with these remains?? [/*]

Linda Worrick stopped to help him, gave him a ride and he killed her and left her along the highway. (We went on an anniversary dinner cruise on Raystown Lake for our anniversary and met them, sat with them at dinner and spent time with them talking. Very nice couple! He was PSP officer at Driver Test course in Pleasant Gap). She lived in Howard. She was murdered by Boyer in 1993.

Dana Baily was killed in St College on Allen St. Someone had been watching her from across the street. Boyer had a job a block from her apartment. In a place that she could have frequented often. I think she was killed before Mrs. Worrick.

Brenda Condron disappeared in 1991 and was bartender at bar outside of Bellefonte, not far from Howard, where he lived. No one knows what happened. His route home could have passed the bar. No one has ever said if he was ever a patron there or his where abouts that night. At that point they didn't know about a diary with his thoughts of being a man with very serious problems and urges to do bodily harm to women.

Was the diary ever removed from evidence due to improper seizure and not on the warrant?

Cindy Song disappeared in 2001, long after he went to prison.

BUT the remains could belong to her because MM said they are old, maybe 5 years or more.

Was there anyone else missing at that time, that was reported? Or does anyone know of someone that "supposedly" left the area around that time? Maybe a spouse someone said left them?
If not, we are left with Brenda Condron, Cindy Song and Ray Gricar, all missing over 2.8 years and as long 17 years ago.

The link I had originally put up on the Ray Gricar Links (1st thread) had remarks from the diary in it. This man did not want just to kill someone like he did Mrs. Worrick. He wanted to tie them up - in the woods (near his home) - and abuse and sexually assault them.

Could Brenda Condron have been one of his victims? Could Dana Bailey have been one of his victims? With both Ray Gricar and Cindiy Song, it would have to have been someone else, since he was in prison at that time.

Has LE ever questioned him on these other cases? Can they or is that not allowed?

I would say get a snitch in there but I just received an email and this link was on it. Snitches are not really reliable anymore are they?

Law Enforcement: Snitch Culture Gone Bad in Ohio

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/520/federal_judge_frees_15_ohio_bray_lucas_DEA?&print

[Cinderella]

I might have watched too many tv programs, but with DNA, why would it take several months? I am wondering if they are going to hold out and keep the public in the dark as to who the remains belong to so they can watch certain suspects.

I would think that if the remains are of an unknown person that would be different, they would have to find out whose DNA it is, but surely with the missing people from the area, I would think that they would be able to determine right away if they are any of the local missing people.

I also don't know what to make of the CDT posters about the remains being found. Some posters seem to act like it is a big joke. Have they really seen a ghost there or are they just saying that. If they are joking, I don't think that it is anything to joke about because it is someone's loved ones remains.

[sherrijean981]

I found the links previously posted. Check the link. Know a couple were working but seems once posted they don't. :shrug:
LW, note that Mrs. Worrick worked as a teacher in Orviston.


Quote:

"sherrijean981 As I was doing internet searches I came across things that got me questioning. RG was the DA at the time but on some of the issues if the police have not found the guilty perp, missing person or solved their case, RG can not file charges on anyone. My thoughts led to these cases:

1. 1987 - Dana Bailey - MURDERED - Penn State Student from Philipsburg - lived in 2nd floor apt. on Allen St. and worked part time as a waitress at the Corner Room on corner of Allen St.

http://pa-statecollege.civicplus.com/index.asp?NID=91

2. 1991 - Brenda Condron - DISAPPEARED - Bartender at bar near Bellefonte. Shoes still remained in the bar.

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forum...?showtopic=9241

3. 1994 - Linda Worrick - MURDERED - On rt 550 outside Bellefonte found with stab wounds. Lived in Bellefonte - School teacher at Orviston.

http://pa-statecollege.civicplus.com/index.asp?NID=91

4. James Boyer arrested for the murder of Linda Worrick.

Lived in Howard, worked at Uni-Mart at College & Pugh St., State College. Diary found in his home telling of his thoughts and intended attack on young woman. Intercepted Mrs. Worrick and stabbed and killed her, pushing her out of car and driving away with car.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archiv...-94dnews-11.asp



I wondered how far back his diary went? Did he have one for each year? How long did he work in St. College at the Uni-Mart? He wanted to do an assault and killing and cut someone up in the mountain behind Howard in 1994 but did he have those same thoughts in 1991? He worked a block away from Allen St. (Dana Bailey's Place of employment and apt.) He worked in a favorite Uni-Mart close to the college. He traveled to Howard through Bellefonte, near where Brenda Condron worked. Was he a patron of that bar? Did he have the opportunity to see her around the area?

Was this man questioned after the murder of Mrs. Worrick on his where abouts in 1991 and 1987? Was he a serial killer preying on young women during the time RG was in office? His own thoughts in his diary are suspect and just how long did he have those thoughts? Is Brenda Condron in the mountains at the spot he described in his diary?

Just some thoughts I had. "
Quote

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
I found the links previously posted. Check the link. Know a couple were working but seems once posted they don't. :shrug:
LW, note that Mrs. Worrick worked as a teacher in Orviston.


Quote:

"sherrijean981 As I was doing internet searches I came across things that got me questioning. RG was the DA at the time but on some of the issues if the police have not found the guilty perp, missing person or solved their case, RG can not file charges on anyone. My thoughts led to these cases:

1. 1987 - Dana Bailey - MURDERED - Penn State Student from Philipsburg - lived in 2nd floor apt. on Allen St. and worked part time as a waitress at the Corner Room on corner of Allen St.

http://pa-statecollege.civicplus.com/index.asp?NID=91

2. 1991 - Brenda Condron - DISAPPEARED - Bartender at bar near Bellefonte. Shoes still remained in the bar.

3. 1994 - Linda Worrick - MURDERED - On rt 550 outside Bellefonte found with stab wounds. Lived in Bellefonte - School teacher at Orviston.

4. James Boyer arrested for the murder of Linda Worrick.

Lived in Howard, worked at Uni-Mart at College & Pugh St., State College. Diary found in his home telling of his thoughts and intended attack on young woman. Intercepted Mrs. Worrick and stabbed and killed her, pushing her out of car and driving away with car.

I wondered how far back his diary went? Did he have one for each year? How long did he work in St. College at the Uni-Mart? He wanted to do an assault and killing and cut someone up in the mountain behind Howard in 1994 but did he have those same thoughts in 1991? He worked a block away from Allen St. (Dana Bailey's Place of employment and apt.) He worked in a favorite Uni-Mart close to the college. He traveled to Howard through Bellefonte, near where Brenda Condron worked. Was he a patron of that bar? Did he have the opportunity to see her around the area?

Was this man questioned after the murder of Mrs. Worrick on his where abouts in 1991 and 1987? Was he a serial killer preying on young women during the time RG was in office? His own thoughts in his diary are suspect and just how long did he have those thoughts? Is Brenda Condron in the mountains at the spot he described in his diary?

Just some thoughts I had. "
Quote [/*]

I deleted the links that were not working. Sorry!

[ladyheartfixer]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cinderella
I might have watched too many tv programs, but with DNA, why would it take several months? I am wondering if they are going to hold out and keep the public in the dark as to who the remains belong to so they can watch certain suspects.

I would think that if the remains are of an unknown person that would be different, they would have to find out whose DNA it is, but surely with the missing people from the area, I would think that they would be able to determine right away if they are any of the local missing people.

QUOTE]

Best case scenario would be if a pelvis was found to determine sex..or a skull. Worst case scenario would be having to try and obtain dna from bone fragments and then it may only be thru mDNA testing that the sex and possibly the id of the remains could be made.

In the case of the missing ppl that were mentioned mDNA may actually be the best bet...a female relative could provide a specimen. What most ppl don't understand is that the amount of dna recovered may be so minute that it takes time to replicate and amplify the specimen for analysis. That takes time. If it goes to a state lab it could take several months due to the backlog of cases that are being worked at this time.

[Politigal]

LHF - your explanation makes sense

On how they found the bones...I'm extremely curious.

Did someone just walking thru the woods find them, or did police get a tip that someone was buried there?

It seems odd that they haven't told the media who found the bones, or how the bones were found.

[J. J. in Phila]

These appear to be too old for RFG.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
These appear to be too old for RFG. [/*]

It has almost been 3 yrs

[ladyheartfixer]

thanks P gal...means a lot coming from you.

Another thing that may play a part in the age of the remains is the area they were found in and the weather conditions exposed to. Were they under a tree? out in the open? Also insect and animal disturbances of the remains could all play a part ( think Body Farm).

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Politigal LHF - your explanation makes sense

On how they found the bones...I'm extremely curious.

Did someone just walking thru the woods find them, or did police get a tip that someone was buried there?

It seems odd that they haven't told the media who found the bones, or how the bones were found. Police said the remains were found in the area of the beach by a passer-by, who happened upon the bones and contacted authorities. Troopers did how the discovery occurred, including if the bones appeared to be buried.

http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/id/500886.html?nav=5009

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Politigal
LHF - your explanation makes sense

On how they found the bones...I'm extremely curious.

Did someone just walking thru the woods find them, or did police get a tip that someone was buried there?

It seems odd that they haven't told the media who found the bones, or how the bones were found. [/*]

A comment on the CDT site about the story says a couple looking for arrowheads found them and called the police. It did not say where in particular in the park they were.

Supposedly there was a grave yard moved in the area when they put the lake in. One person said the graves were not all marked and some were buried outside the cemetary. When they put those man-made lakes in they cover homes and anything not moved. If on the lakes you can use fishing sonars to see the buildings and debree in the water.

These statements came from the comment section of the post.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Police said the remains were found in the area of the beach by a passer-by, who happened upon the bones and contacted authorities. Troopers did how the discovery occurred, including if the bones appeared to be buried.

http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/id/500886.html?nav=5009 [/*]

This article says they found the bones in dirt and gravel. More bones and fragments than an actual body. But still not where they were found. Funny how Lock Haven got more info on the find and more info in their post than Centre County did. :shrug:

http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/356858.html

[Cinderella]

If I am not mistaken the beach had been closed due to a type of bacteria found in the water. The remains might have been there for a while. Does anyone know how long the beach was closed. I am sure if people were swimming there during the summer that the bones would have been found. In my opinion, I think the Condron case has been too long.

I feel Cindy Song is a possibility or even someone dying later than Cindy Song. There is also a possibility of someone drowning that someone overlooked. Maybe someone fishing fell in the water.

The weather in Howard always seems to be quite warm so I think that some one's body would deteriorate more rapidly than being in the mountain areas.

I am thinking that the waves that the boats make would have helped to bring the bones over to the beach side. When you are there swimming and people are boating, you get the waves from the boats.

Also draining the dam would help. They never completely drain the dam due to dust problems. People do search the area a lot with metal detectors and just walking through to see if they can find anything.

[Serendipitous1]

Swimming at Bald Eagle, with picture of the beach area):
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/baldeagle.aspx#swimming

Swimming beaches at lakes in state parks (including Bald Eagle) will implement an open swim policy (after hours - no life guards) this year.
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/news/newsreleases/2008/0108-openswim.htm

Remember, the Lock Haven article I cited said "found in the area of the beach", not necessarily in the sand.

[Serendipitous1]

Winter conditions at Bald Eagle State Park (updated two hours ago):
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/winter/winterb.aspx?park=6133

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Swimming at Bald Eagle, with picture of the beach area):
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/baldeagle.aspx#swimming

Swimming beaches at lakes in state parks (including Bald Eagle) will implement an open swim policy (after hours - no life guards) this year.
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/news/newsreleases/2008/0108-openswim.htm

Remember, the Lock Haven article I cited said "found in the area of the beach", not necessarily in the sand. [/*]


I found another map that might be a better source of where the dirt and gravel areas are. Sorry if someone already posted this map and I overlooked it.

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/baldeagle/baldeagle_mini.pdf

You have to move the map a little. On the little map, down in the left hand corner is the beach area. So you can see with the black line where the roads are located. If it is gravel then it should be probably near one of the dirt roads. Just guessing.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella



I found another map that might be a better source of where the dirt and gravel areas are. Sorry if someone already posted this map and I overlooked it.

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/baldeagle/baldeagle_mini.pdf

You have to move the map a little. On the little map, down in the left hand corner is the beach area. So you can see with the black line where the roads are located. If it is gravel then it should be probably near one of the dirt roads. Just guessing. [/*]

I enjoyed looking at the map and seeing the area in a different way than by car.

I noticed there are 2 cemetery's, Sandhill Cemetery and Schenck Cemetery which are closer to the Greens Run Recreation Area than to the other park area. This Greens Run Recreation Area is across the lake and west of the Howard Borough Park, that looks like it also has a bathing area/beach. Is that correct?

Sandhill Cemetery and Schenck Cemetery are also near the Nursury Rd and Dowdy Hole Rd. I just noticed that there used to be a bridge over the water at Dowdy Hole Rd that would have gone over to old Rt 220. It would have been east of Curtin Village.

Was the bridge washed out during the 72 flood? I know there was one on old Rt 220 near Mount Eagle, when the road went from Milesburg to Howard but was never replaced after the flood. Never realised there was one on Dowdy Hole Rd.

WTAJ - TV 10 just had a report that they found teeth, some leg and arm bones. Sending them away and could be some weeks until we might here if male or female and race but months until a final report. they were also showing the road where the DCNR sign on gray blocks/bricks is, but I am not familiar with the lake and don't know which road that would be on.

[Serendipitous1]

The "new" location of Schenck Cemetery appears to be about 2 miles from the swimming area, on the map Cinderella linked to.

Remains from a few cemeteries (Schencks, lower Sand Hill, Neff, Rupert) were moved to the new location prior to the dam construction.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~paccgs/books.htm

Some of the (pre-dam) cemeteries can be seen in older maps. It does not appear there was a cemetery in the vicinity of the present swimming area. MOO

[Serendipitous1]

Skeletal remains likely not related to missing persons cases

http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/358264.html

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Skeletal remains likely not related to missing persons cases

http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/358264.html [/*]

I had such a strong feeling it might be Brenda Condron. "Older bones", Until they mentioned the cemeteries being moved. This will be so hard on the families after the newspapers running the find of remains.

God bless them all. :rose:

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


SNIP
-----------------------------
This Greens Run Recreation Area is across the lake and west of the Howard Borough Park, that looks like it also has a bathing area/beach. Is that correct?

[/*]No, it does not. It might be a restroom. You can launch boats from there but there is only one swimming area and that is at the beach.


Sandhill Cemetery and Schenck Cemetery are also near the Nursury Rd and Dowdy Hole Rd. I just noticed that there used to be a bridge over the water at Dowdy Hole Rd that would have gone over to old Rt 220. It would have been east of Curtin Village.

Was the bridge washed out during the 72 flood? I know there was one on old Rt 220 near Mount Eagle, when the road went from Milesburg to Howard but was never replaced after the flood. Never realised there was one on Dowdy Hole Rd.

I guess people use the Curtin Road Bridge now. I didn't know there was a bridge by Dowdy Hole Rd. before, but the map shows that their used to be one.

WTAJ - TV 10 just had a report that they found teeth, some leg and arm bones. Sending them away and could be some weeks until we might here if male or female and race but months until a final report. they were also showing the road where the DCNR sign on gray blocks/bricks is, but I am not familiar with the lake and don't know which road that would be on.

I don't have tv so I don't know what you are saying. I used to have a boat docked at the dam and go boating all the time. I am pretty familiar with the dam. They used to keep a gate locked to the main park when it was closed. I am wondering if the gate has been locked. I have a friend from Howard that I will ask. You could walk around the gate when closed, but you couldn't drive a vehicle through there.

[sherrijean981]

Here is a link to Brenda Condon's PSP link with a photo of her. There is also a link to photo's of 3 men who were in the bar the night she disappeared. Maybe someone will recognize them anyways, even if the remains are not hers.

http://www.psp.state.pa.us/psp/cwp/view.asp?a=3&Q=38419&pp=12&n=1

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Skeletal remains likely not related to missing persons cases

http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/358264.html [/*]

Well I think that is good news for the Gricar family. At least there does remain some hope that Ray is still alive.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella
No, it does not. It might be a restroom. You can launch boats from there but there is only one swimming area and that is at the beach.


Sandhill Cemetery and Schenck Cemetery are also near the Nursury Rd and Dowdy Hole Rd. I just noticed that there used to be a bridge over the water at Dowdy Hole Rd that would have gone over to old Rt 220. It would have been east of Curtin Village.

Was the bridge washed out during the 72 flood? I know there was one on old Rt 220 near Mount Eagle, when the road went from Milesburg to Howard but was never replaced after the flood. Never realised there was one on Dowdy Hole Rd.

I guess people use the Curtin Road Bridge now. I didn't know there was a bridge by Dowdy Hole Rd. before, but the map shows that their used to be one.

WTAJ - TV 10 just had a report that they found teeth, some leg and arm bones. Sending them away and could be some weeks until we might here if male or female and race but months until a final report. they were also showing the road where the DCNR sign on gray blocks/bricks is, but I am not familiar with the lake and don't know which road that would be on.

I don't have tv so I don't know what you are saying. I used to have a boat docked at the dam and go boating all the time. I am pretty familiar with the dam. They used to keep a gate locked to the main park when it was closed. I am wondering if the gate has been locked. I have a friend from Howard that I will ask. You could walk around the gate when closed, but you couldn't drive a vehicle through there. [/*]

The Greens Run Recreation Area looks like it has a gate. I enlarged the photos to get a better look at the area. That area by Howard Borough Park looks large. Is it all boat docking? What a shame the locals couldn't swim there instead of going all the way around.

My cousin used to boat there all the time. They came up from Harrisburg to enjoy the lake but the only lake I have ever been on was Raystown.

[Cinderella]

That area does have a gate, but you can get into a boat launch using the Schenck Cemetery Road which is always open.

The reporters at the Centre Daily Times must have been busy trying to keep up with our posting. I believe that all of us did a great job in researching the area.

DO YOU HEAR THAT PETE BOSAK??? Just joking as you do a GREAT JOB also. I better say that or heaven only knows what he will write next about me. I am on good BEHAVIOR. If there is such a thing for me. :rolleyes:

Pete, just ask J. J. about me. He will give me a Good Report, I think. :confused:

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella
That area does have a gate, but you can get into a boat launch using the Schenck Cemetery Road which is always open.

The reporters at the Centre Daily Times must have been busy trying to keep up with our posting. I believe that all of us did a great job in researching the area.

DO YOU HEAR THAT PETE BOSAK??? Just joking as you do a GREAT JOB also. I better say that or heaven only knows what he will write next about me. I am on good BEHAVIOR. If there is such a thing for me. :rolleyes: [/*]

I was reading the comments on the CDT story this morning and you were right. A lot of joking although I think at least one person might have been really seeing something.

On a map everything looks so much closer. I thought when we went to the park for a family gathering it was on the Milesburg side of the bridge to Howard. Wrong. And we were just above the swimming area at tables there. I was way off course. :)
I also thought someone had told me they had 2 swimming areas but there is just the one.

I wasn't aware of all the walking trails around the lake. Wonder if RG ever went there to walk?

I wish the reporters at the CDT would read some of these threads and do some research on some of the things we find. they have access to so many records we don't. Old newspapers that could be used to find the original stories, etc. Some on here give them things that could be looked into, wonder if they do?

[Cinderella]

I think that PB reads. You have to be careful what you say about him though. Who knows he might end up putting your username in the paper. So say nice things about him. LEARNED THE HARD WAY!

Cloudbuster won't be telling me how to use the colors anymore. :punch:

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Skeletal remains likely not related to missing persons cases

http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/358264.html [/*]

On one hand I'm glad it's probably not related to any of the missing persons cases, but on the other, I'm sad that there's still no resolution for so many families.

[day2day]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster


d2d Im sorry for your loss!!! Im also praying for strength for you through this time of loss!!!:rose:

I also owe JJ an apology imagine that lol. JJ Im sorry I been so frustrated latley and I guess i took it out on you and for that IM SORRY!!!! IM SORRY!!!! [/*]

Thanks CB..it seems like everytime i turn around i am losing someone who has traveled with me through my crazy little life. As most of you know i lost my mama when i was little (so i think i should be used to it by now) but each passing has slowly taken its toll on me.


I can't tell you how much your prayers mean to me. I appreciate all of them~~

I have really come to respect JJ (even if he doesnt agree with the me most of the time). It takes very special people to sink their hearts into a case like this..and in my opinion everyone of you are special.

Sadly the remains found probably aren't Mr Gricars and that brings us RIGHT back to April 15, 2005. And the silence is still deafening :(

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by day2day


Thanks CB..it seems like everytime i turn around i am losing someone who has traveled with me through my crazy little life. As most of you know i lost my mama when i was little (so i think i should be used to it by now) but each passing has slowly taken its toll on me.


I can't tell you how much your prayers mean to me. I appreciate all of them~~

I have really come to respect JJ (even if he doesnt agree with the me most of the time). It takes very special people to sink their hearts into a case like this..and in my opinion everyone of you are special.

Sadly the remains found probably aren't Mr Gricars and that brings us RIGHT back to April 15, 2005. And the silence is still deafening :( [/*]

d2d anything I can do let me know!! I lost my dad so I can relate. I just put up a post on that blog that SJ told me about on here. The one about the A&E show this past Monday. I hope they can help I sorta told my story under that story from Mondays show. Keep your fingers crossed.

I too respect JJ and I was rude with him and apolized for the coment I recently made to him it wasn't called for and I usually don't lose my cool but I was frustrated to say the least and it's still no excuse for it. I do hope he excepets the apology!!!! JJ I didn't mean it!!! I think the world of you and like d2d everyone of you hold a place in my heart!!!:rose:

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster


Snip
----------------------------

I too respect JJ and I was rude with him and apolized for the coment I recently made to him it wasn't called for and I usually don't lose my cool but I was frustrated to say the least and it's still no excuse for it. I do hope he excepets the apology!!!! JJ I didn't mean it!!! I think the world of you and like d2d everyone of you hold a place in my heart!!!:rose: [/*]

-------------------------------

Where is that disagreeer anyhow. I missed him today. He needs to get a punching bag instead of disagreeing all the time. :lol: He will probably disagree with your statement Cloudbuster.
:santa:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster


d2d anything I can do let me know!! I lost my dad so I can relate. I just put up a post on that blog that SJ told me about on here. The one about the A&E show this past Monday. I hope they can help I sorta told my story under that story from Mondays show. Keep your fingers crossed.

I too respect JJ and I was rude with him and apolized for the coment I recently made to him it wasn't called for and I usually don't lose my cool but I was frustrated to say the least and it's still no excuse for it. I do hope he excepets the apology!!!! JJ I didn't mean it!!! I think the world of you and like d2d everyone of you hold a place in my heart!!!:rose: [/*]

I am not upset in the least with the comments. Respect means nothing to me, either; I'm not planning to run for anything. Again! ;)

I'm waiting for PB to talk to the police and hoping that some more answers can be revealed. I really would like to see walkaway either become the most likely option, or pretty much ruled out. It frustrates me greatlyto know that this question could be answered if LE looks at the evidence that has to be out there. If there were more than hypothetical means that RFG there will be evidence; if that isn't there, that evidence won't be there and we can greatly reduce that chance.

That is what I find most frustating.

BTW: I didn't post earlier because I've had some business to attend to and a very late acupuncture appointment.

[Cinderella]

J. J.,

You don't need to go for acupuncture. Don't you feel the darts when you disagree with us? :lol:

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks JJ!!!

[Cinderella]

WHERE IS EVERYONE TONIGHT???

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Cinderella
WHERE IS EVERYONE TONIGHT??? [/*]

I've been trying out Windows Live - Live Mail/Spaces/Photos etc.

It's pretty nifty.

Here's my spaces page:

http://dst76013.spaces.live.com

[Cinderella]

Pgal that is such a beautful page. You are awesome. Thanks for posting it. I missed you tonight.

[Politigal]

Bones probably 20+ yrs old

http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/358768.html

[Cinderella]

I could almost be Brenda Condron then. Excuse my posting, I just fell out of bed. :punch:

[puzzled]

Several years ago my mother and I scattered some of my sisters cremated remains at Sayers Dam. We tossed them into the water. That place looks like heaven! It is beautiful! She liked to take her dogs there to run and play on the beach! Is Sayers Dam where they found the remains?:confused:

[Cinderella]

Yes, Sayers Dam is where they found the remains. Although from what you are talking about, I think that they may have found bigger remains than that of cremation.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by puzzled
Several years ago my mother and I scattered some of my sisters cremated remains at Sayers Dam. We tossed them into the water. That place looks like heaven! It is beautiful! She liked to take her dogs there to run and play on the beach! Is Sayers Dam where they found the remains?:confused: [/*]

I'm somewhat familiar with post cremation remains. There could be some fragments, but not the "bones" they've discovered.

I actually thought it might have been Condon, but the bones look too old for that. There was a cemetery there, which had been submerged with the building of the dam.

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by logicworks



There was a cemetery where? Are you saying the bones and teeth were found in the dam area? [/*]

They moved a couple of cemetary's when they put the dam in.
Yes the bones were found in the dam area. I think they said that the remains were found close to the beach area or surrounding area. I thought that you knew.

[Cinderella]

I will post a couple of links that have been posted. I conder the whole water the dam. Are you asking if it is close to where the water goes out?

[Cinderella]

Here is one link:

http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/id/500886.html?nav=5009

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


A comment on the CDT site about the story says a couple looking for arrowheads found them and called the police. It did not say where in particular in the park they were.

Supposedly there was a grave yard moved in the area when they put the lake in. One person said the graves were not all marked and some were buried outside the cemetary. When they put those man-made lakes in they cover homes and anything not moved. If on the lakes you can use fishing sonars to see the buildings and debree in the water.

These statements came from the comment section of the post. [/*]


Logic:
Go Back a couple of pages and start reading with SherriJean's article. I think that it is actually page 3.

[J. J. in Phila]

Probably not as low.

You can also have some erosion of the ground.

It might even be Amerindian remains.

I though they'd found Condon at first.

[Cinderella]

The bones could have been moving in the water. Maybe no one ever really looked at that section. It could have moved water from where it had been before only this year. I don't know.

[day2day]

Originally posted by logicworks



Aged bones moving together across a lake--- arm, leg, teeth arriving in one location after 20 years? I seriously doubt that as much as I doubt the 'indian arrowhead searchers' .......
Who looks for indian arrowheads water's edge on the coldest day of the year? The only ones out then are ice skaters, and it is my understanding the skating area in Howard is much lower than the dam area, according to locals. [/*]


Searching for arrowheads..skipping rocks..it all sounds SO familiar. And yes..I am so happy i am not the only one who isnt buying this load of.....
jmo

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Cinderella



I found another map that might be a better source of where the dirt and gravel areas are. Sorry if someone already posted this map and I overlooked it.

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/baldeagle/baldeagle_mini.pdf

You have to move the map a little. On the little map, down in the left hand corner is the beach area. So you can see with the black line where the roads are located. If it is gravel then it should be probably near one of the dirt roads. Just guessing. [/*]

Brought this back over.

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by day2day



Searching for arrowheads..skipping rocks..it all sounds SO familiar. And yes..I am so happy i am not the only one who isnt buying this load of.....
jmo [/*]


They do look for arrowhead down there though.

[Cinderella]

You are right for all the bones to be together under the water at the same place though. We don't know how many there are. Now my imagination is running wild. What is someone had murdered someone and kept the bones, then thought that they should ditch them. :confused:

[puzzled]

Hey Cind how far from where the bones were found is JL's property? Do you have any idea?

[Cinderella]

Well you can look on this map and find Dowdy Hole Road by the water then go up to the beach area. I can't tell. I will try to figure it out with another map. I would be off some though.


http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/baldeagle/baldeagle_mini.pdf

[Cinderella]

Here is a map.

Do a google map.

Go from E. Dowdy Hole Road to Bald Eagle State Park.


The purple line represents the pathway to the Park. So I would say about 4 miles maybe, because you are not going to the road and right above the x is the beach area. So it is only about half the distance.

[day2day]

Originally posted by Cinderella



They do look for arrowhead down there though. [/*]

That wouldn't surprise me..but it was so cold that day. And it just all seems to familiar....another coincidence? ..

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



Aged bones moving together across a lake--- arm, leg, teeth arriving in one location after 20 years? I seriously doubt that as much as I doubt the 'indian arrowhead searchers' .......
Who looks for indian arrowheads water's edge on the coldest day of the year? The only ones out then are ice skaters, and it is my understanding the skating area in Howard is much lower than the dam area, according to locals. [/*]

Arrowhead hunting is not that uncommon. The freezing and thawing brings them up to the surface.

You can find it crystals in Sinking Valley like that.

[Cinderella]

The thing that I have to find out from my friend who lives in Howard, is has the gate to the park been closed. If it has you would have to walk clear to the beach area. You would not be able to get through by vehicle. So it would be a walk.

They usually close the gate after Labor day IIRC.

[Cinderella]

Yes, but there is one area that you can only swim in. I have never referred to any of the other areas as beach. I alwasy thought that when you went down there to the beach, you went to the swimming area.

Maybe someone would do us a favor and show on the map of Bald Eagle State Park just where they did find the bones.

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Cinderella
Yes, but there is one area that you can only swim in. I have never referred to any of the other areas as beach. I alwasy thought that when you went down there to the beach, you went to the swimming area.

Maybe someone would do us a favor and show on the map of Bald Eagle State Park just where they did find the bones. [/*]

After Labor Day most of the park on the north side of the bridge by 220 is closed by a gate. I haven't been there since the camping area opened so I don't nkow if they have a gate closing that area off. The main road into the picnic areas is closed by a gate.

[Cinderella]

I spoke to my friend who house is on a mountain overlooking the dam. She has lived in Howard most of her life. She said that they never close the gates. She said that there are always lots of people ice fishing. They have their little tents or huts and they ice fish. She said that she heard that the bones are over 30 years old. She didn't know whether they look for arrowheads now or not, but says that someone has thousands of them from down there because their used to be an Indian Settlement there.

She also stated that she only heard the beach area referring to the swimming area. She also thinks that there was a cemetary that was out in the midst of where the dam is and was moved.

Please disreagard my statements about the gates being closed.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



The only big collector I know of who is even close to that area doesn't seem to currently view the Sayer's Dam area as being 'the place' to search for arrowheads and actually has this to say about it.

Almost all of Long's finds represent Clinton County inhabitants. He and his father found artifacts on the Great Island, McElhattan, Sugar Valley, Beech Creek, and just across the county line in Blanchard. "It hurt to see Sayers Dam built," says Long. "Probably millions of points were covered up."
JMO [/*]

Lock Haven actually has Amerindian sites; there seems to be a number of them in the area.

[Cinderella]

I was thinking of them moving the graves. Even if You move the graves, they are usually 6 feet. The dam is deeper than 6 feet so I guess that I just don't get it. :confused:

They mentioned something about it the bones might have been in an area that wasn't previously uncovered with water. So it would seem to me that must be in a deeper part.

Also has there been dirt and gravel under the water at the beach. All I ever felt was sand.

I bet if anyone was interested, the ice fisherman would probably know where they located the remains.

[Cinderella]

The bones were not found in the immediate spillway area. If they were at one time underwater then they are in water that eventually goes to the spillway. Also the water does flow to the spillway when they are somewhat emptying it.

[Cinderella]

Here is a map again.

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/baldeagle/baldeagle_mini.pdf

All of the water here is closed off by the dam. When the dam somewhat empties, then it lets some water out. Eventually the water from the beach area and other areas are going to travel to the place where the dam empties.

[Cinderella]

The spillway empties on the Liberty side. The damed water is in Howard. The reason for the dam being that north of the dam, areas like Lock Haven and other areas were all the time flooded.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella
Here is a map again.

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/baldeagle/baldeagle_mini.pdf

All of the water here is closed off by the dam. When the dam somewhat empties, then it lets some water out. Eventually the water from the beach area and other areas are going to travel to the place where the dam empties. [/*]

Wasn't it said a couple times that the area the bones were found in was usually under water? Maybe your friend would know which section has been lowered that there is now "beach" and dirt and gravel that usually is underwater? Do you know where the section is that is now uncovered?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


Wasn't it said a couple times that the area the bones were found in was usually under water? Maybe your friend would know which section has been lowered that there is now "beach" and dirt and gravel that usually is underwater? Do you know where the section is that is now uncovered? [/*]

That's also what I've heard.

The erosion of the water could have slowly uncovered it (and the freezing/thawing would help.

The water goes down and there are the bones.

J. J.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


That's also what I've heard.

The erosion of the water could have slowly uncovered it (and the freezing/thawing would help.

The water goes down and there are the bones.

J. J. [/*]

I also wondered if the bones were part of a cemetary, and had been underwater over 20/30 years, being imbedded in and under the dirt, wouldn't the weight of the water hold it there if in an area that boats are not trafficing heavily? Nothing creating a lot of waves? If on the Milesburg side of the bridge to Howard, closer to the Dowdy Hole Rd and the 2 cemetaries mentioned wouldn't the water be less traveled by motor boats? Also wouldn't that be the area that would lose the water when draining the dam since that area received the water from a creek?

[Cinderella]

I have never seen any speed boats or pontoon boats up as far as Dowdy Hole Road. You might have small fishing boats, but I haven't even even seen them down that way.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


I also wondered if the bones were part of a cemetary, and had been underwater over 20/30 years, being imbedded in and under the dirt, wouldn't the weight of the water hold it there if in an area that boats are not trafficing heavily? Nothing creating a lot of waves? If on the Milesburg side of the bridge to Howard, closer to the Dowdy Hole Rd and the 2 cemetaries mentioned wouldn't the water be less traveled by motor boats? Also wouldn't that be the area that would lose the water when draining the dam since that area received the water from a creek? [/*]

Yes, the force of the water could slowly remove the soil in which the bones were in. If you're talking about 20+ years, it's possible.

[Serendipitous1]

Preliminary investigations suggest that the bones are at least 20 years old and perhaps older (likely ruling out any connection to contemporary missing-person cases), and were not likely left behind when the old Schenck Cemetery was moved and the Foster Joseph Sayers Dam was built. The area where the bones were found is under water most of the year.
http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/id/500931.html?nav=5009

Typically, a 5-foot lake draw down begins in Nov., with an additional 15-foot draw down between mid-Feb. and early Mar. (for maximum flood protection), recovering to normal pool elevation by mid-May.
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/baldeagle.aspx

[Cinderella]

That ruined it for me. Now I will be thinking that I might step on someone's bones while swimming. Jaws took care of the ocean for me, now remains will do the swimming in Bald Eagle State Park for me. Wonder what is out at Black Moshannon State Park?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella
That ruined it for me. Now I will be thinking that I might step on someone's bones while swimming. Jaws took care of the ocean for me, now remains will do the swimming in Bald Eagle State Park for me. Wonder what is out at Black Moshannon State Park? [/*]

The find bones from the colonial period in basements in Philadelphia occasionally. I drove up one street last week and realized I was driving along the British Line during the Battle of Germantown. :)

In New Florence, PA, they found a victim of the 1889 Johnstown Flood in someone's basement sometime in the 1970's.

You are going to get things like this occasionally, but it's not related to the RFG case.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Cinderella
That ruined it for me. Now I will be thinking that I might step on someone's bones while swimming. Jaws took care of the ocean for me, now remains will do the swimming in Bald Eagle State Park for me. Wonder what is out at Black Moshannon State Park? Big Foot? Just kidding.

"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." ~Henry David Thoreau

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Big Foot? Just kidding.

"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." ~Henry David Thoreau [/*]

So who was this high school teacher that instilled such a passion for Thoreau?

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Big Foot? Just kidding.

"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." ~Henry David Thoreau [/*]

You are right S1, between the ghosts, the remains, big foot. etc.
I think that Bald Eagle State Park has been taken over. Too bad that I don't have money for a swimming pool.

[Cinderella]

Just to let everyone know, I called BPD yesterday. A friend could have given me a tip. I like to report things that I think could possibly be. I asked to talk to Ricker, he is out for two days. I said is there someone else that I could talk to? They said yes Shawn Weaver will call you. NO ONE HAS CALLED! That is why the people feel that they won't listen anyway. :flamemad:

[Cinderella]

VERY FRUSTRATED is how I feel. It is like nothing is helping. I just started looking over my old notes. One thing that did catch my eye was on May 27, 2005 there was a Cabin Fire at Poe Valley State Park. I don't know the circumstances.

I am thinking of the body of a man found nearby. To my knowledge, they didn't ID him yet. I know I am supposed to stay on topic, but I think of all the missing and homeless people of the world. Every face on a picture or poster has family members that love them. I guess that I will stop rambling.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks
Not answering for S1, but for myself no teacher necessary.....
I fell in love with Thoreau's Walden the moment I began reading it. I felt his quest for truth was the same quest in my own life, and I wasn't even a teen yet at the time.

I decided then ...1) no tv, no radio, no newpapers, no media, keep all of the 'noise' out of my life, and have never been sorry for doing so. 2) work hard to serve until I could create my own Walden.
I have always planned my retirement to be Walden re-lived, and I know it will be. I have envisioned it all my life; nothing else would ever suffice.

"Thoreau wanted to get the most from his life by determining what was really important, and he did that by removing himself somewhat from the normal life of Concord, Massachusetts in the 1840's. One side of this was economic: he reduced his material needs by living simply, so that he would not have to spend much time supporting a lifestyle that he did not need or care about. The other side was spiritual, not unlike the spiritual retreats of eastern and western religions." Oh, I am liking that, logicworks! "Required reading" (in my case) had its merits...if only in retrospection. I have my own "Walden Pond"...and I wish all others could find theirs. But alas, this concept appears to be totally foreign to law enforcement types. MOO

[Cinderella]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by logicworks


SNIP
--------------------
I decided then ...1) no tv, no radio, no newpapers, no media, keep all of the 'noise' out of my life, and have never been sorry for doing so. 2) work hard to serve until I could create my own Walden.
------------------
SNIP


I also don't have tv, no radio, no newspapers, but I do have the internet and try to keep up with what is going on. BTW, my pond is drained. My life is complicated due to 3 stubborn pugs, and I nice cat. I raised three children and you would think that I would have learned my lesson. :)

[Serendipitous1]

Then, instead of "The Midnight Ride of Jonathan Luna", I suggest reading "Walden". You will not likely find any answers to the mystery of RG's disappearance in either work. But you may just learn something about yourself...and/or the world that surrounds you (us). MOO

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Then, instead of "The Midnight Ride of Jonathan Luna", I suggest reading "Walden". You will not likely find any answers to the mystery of RG's disappearance in either work. But you may just learn something about yourself. MOO [/*]

I have and read the book, "The Midnight Ride of Jonathan Luna" and I think that it is a very good book. I would recommend it. Then again, I like Bill Keisling. :)

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Cinderella
I have and read the book, "The Midnight Ride of Jonathan Luna" and I think that it is a very good book. I would recommend it. Then again, I like Bill Keisling. :) Duly noted.

[J. J. in Phila]

May I suggest The Prince. This case is in a political environment.

[Cinderella]

We have enough "Crooks" running the country, why read more about it???? :confused:


I think that this site should get a head banging icon.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
May I suggest The Prince. This case is in a political environment. [/*]Or, then, on any historical or contemporary piece "on the nature of civil disobedience ".

[Cinderella]

S1, you have a way with words. You said it better than I did. Civil Disobedience, instead of "CROOKS," I will have to remember that.

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Then, instead of "The Midnight Ride of Jonathan Luna", I suggest reading "Walden". You will not likely find any answers to the mystery of RG's disappearance in either work. But you may just learn something about yourself...and/or the world that surrounds you (us). MOO [/*]12 yrs ago, without knowing it, I stumbled across my own Walden. My friends who have live here all of their lives don't even know of my discovery. They simply think I've dropped out and come here. Half-right, they are, but the inspiration and strength I've looked for are actually an all-encompassing gift of sorts. In order, if I could haveone hour and a beer on my dock with two people, they would begin and end with RG and RG.

If I had to get deeper, and "non-Gricar", Thoreau would be one, and the amazing coincidence of his relationship with Emerson would be another invite. That's one hell of a fishing trip...

[J. J. in Phila]

Ironically, I much prefer being in a row house in Philadelphia.

[Cinderella]

Man found dead in water is that of William Anstett. They found his belongings sitting along the side of the water. His backpack, etc. He was homeless. He hitch hiked everyday to his job in State College. Two people were supposedly paying for his room at the Harbor Inn, while trying to find him a permanent place to live. He was decomposing and had a fractured skull. It is not known if he fell into the water and hit his head or someone beat him. So sad. I am a Christian. Why can't at least the churches open their doors to the homeless? :wreath:


BTW, this wasn't all on the news. It was told from firsthand knowledge to someone else.



:rose:

[suzanne]

Hi
In 1984 there was a serial killer named Christopher Bernard Wilder.I noticed he use to kill his victims and put them at National monuments,state Parks,Resevoirs ect....He usually put his victims at the state or so over.But not always.
I agree with your coment Cinderella You said "I also don't know what to make of the CDT posters about the remains being found. Some posters seem to act like it is a big joke. Have they really seen a ghost there or are they just saying that. If they are joking, I don't think that it is anything to joke about because it is someone's loved ones remains."

Also can you please keep me updated on these remains.I have a pesonal interest in them of who they can be.

suzannec44444@yahoo.com

suzanne

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by suzannec4444
Hi
In 1984 there was a serial killer named Christopher Bernard Wilder.I noticed he use to kill his victims and put them at National monuments,state Parks,Resevoirs ect....He usually put his victims at the state or so over.But not always.
I agree with your coment Cinderella You said "I also don't know what to make of the CDT posters about the remains being found. Some posters seem to act like it is a big joke. Have they really seen a ghost there or are they just saying that. If they are joking, I don't think that it is anything to joke about because it is someone's loved ones remains."

Also can you please keep me updated on these remains.I have a pesonal interest in them of who they can be.

suzannec44444@yahoo.com

suzanne [/*]

Do you feel this man had something to do with a long ago murder and they are the remains?

Link to the name mentioned:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Wilder

[suzanne]

Hi
Yes posibbly.He posed as a fashion photographer.He usually photographed his victims at a beach like setting and left his victims at national monuments,resevoirs ect...

suzanne

[Cinderella]

Hi Suzanne, I hope that you are joining our discussion group.

[suzanne]

Hi
Thankyou.I can see why you thought this could be him.I also wanted to say the email address I put for me is wrong.It is

suzannec4444@yahoo.com

suzanne

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by tonyGricar
12 yrs ago, without knowing it, I stumbled across my own Walden. My friends who have live here all of their lives don't even know of my discovery. They simply think I've dropped out and come here. Half-right, they are, but the inspiration and strength I've looked for are actually an all-encompassing gift of sorts. In order, if I could haveone hour and a beer on my dock with two people, they would begin and end with RG and RG.

If I had to get deeper, and "non-Gricar", Thoreau would be one, and the amazing coincidence of his relationship with Emerson would be another invite. That's one hell of a fishing trip... Who could have not loved to be able to walk into town and dine with Emerson? "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation" (Thoreau). I would like to have met your uncle. There is something kindred there...in quiet efficiency, or expediency. MOO

[puzzled]

I hope that there is a literal hell and I hope they are saving a special spot there for Joran Vander Sloot! I believe in an eye for an eye. It sounds like she may have been overcome by possibly alcohol poisoning. If he had nothing to hide why did he not immediatly call 911? Obviously there is more to the story......

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by puzzled
I hope that there is a literal hell and I hope they are saving a special spot there for Joran Vander Sloot! I believe in an eye for an eye. It sounds like she may have been overcome by possibly alcohol poisoning. If he had nothing to hide why did he not immediatly call 911? Obviously there is more to the story...... [/*]

I watched 20/20 tonight and I thought the guy has been lying all along, always looked like he was smurking and had a big secret. Tonight I felt it was the truth - to a point. Why don't LE check the phone company for record of calls that night?!

[puzzled]

Exactly Sherrijean! Great minds think alike! Go Hillary!! It's high time that women ran the country! HA!

[Serendipitous1]

The bones found in Bald Eagle State Park last month have been determined to be those of two Native American individuals buried between 100 and 700 years ago.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2008/02/14/bones_discovered_of_ancient_in.aspx

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
The bones found in Bald Eagle State Park last month have been determined to be those of two Native American individuals buried between 100 and 700 years ago.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2008/02/14/bones_discovered_of_ancient_in.aspx [/*]

Okay, they are my relatives. :)

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
Okay, they are my relatives. :) "Houston, we have a problem......" . . .:tongue:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
"Houston, we have a problem......" . . .:tongue: [/*]

We won't after I get Pittsburgh back. ;)