Unexplained Phenomena - could it help RG? [Archive]

Hbgchick

03-01-2007, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

Thanks for starting this thread. It is a good place for those interested and also allows others who aren't to breeze on past.

Drifting off subject here because I just wanted you to know what happened to me today; about 'that house'.
So very strange how things come just when I least expect it.
What are the chances I would wish like hexx this morning I had taken my camera along that day, and today someone tells me they know someone with a photo that was taken that showed unexplained images? Slim to none, IMO.

Today I mentioned the 'house' to a friend in conversation. This person then said "Oh, yeah. I know this lady who lives right down the hill from there, and she was out in her yard taking some photos, just fooling around with her camera. She told me about a photo that really scared her. The photo was taken toward 'that house'."

The person who told me is going to contact the woman to see if she still has the photo(s), or if she will describe what she saw. This is a very trustworthy person telling me this, by the way. He remembered she was 'creeped' out by it which was why she told him. He thought she said it was a man who was doing something but there wasn't anybody there. I will let you know more as soon as I find out. Maybe we do have a picture after all.

By the way, I have NEVER, and I mean NEVER believed in ghosts......LOL. Not until you brought up the 'creepy' feeling about the house did I ever really stop to think about what could have possibly hit that door on the inside of the vacant house.
Just wanted to pass this along before I get back into investigating what happened to RG.

Hey Logic, this is awesome news! I'd loooove to see that pic. I was actually bummed out that my friend moved and I didn't get to go back.

I think it's vacant now. I assume the same guy owns it who was her landlord - she was just renting and was only there a few months. I would be temped to drive up there next time I'm in State College, but as you know, it's tough to just sort of "drive past" it. You need to actually park and walk down to the house. All of my bravado about saying I'd have stayed and gone back is not quite as confident as it was before I read this! Lol.

Hbgchick

03-01-2007, 01:14 PM

sherrijean981

03-02-2007, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by logicworks

My friend called the woman last evening and she still has the photo in the memory on her camera. My friend says she guards it with her life, because she thinks she has something that is so phenomenal. (I know the feeling. I have done the same thing with some photos I have that are beyond explanation.)

He is going to call her again tonight to see when we can meet to look at it. I have seen things before that others call phenomenal that IMO aren't anything I can even make out, so I want to see it before I comment on it.

She said it is a man and a woman on the hill toward the house but no one was there when she took the photo. She told my friend it is so clear you can even see their fingers. It was taken after they died. She said it looks like them. This woman says they absolutely loved their house. It meant everything to them.
And it is still vacant, no one living in it.
Thought you would be interested so I am passing it along as it comes to me.
Now back to finding out what happened to RG.

Did your friend say if she had a camera she could download it on and email you a copy? Would be nice to have it posted somewhere or a link we could check it out on. Sounds very interesting. Another case of someone being killed prematurely and violently and their spirit not leaving. I wonder how they could be helped to leave? Did their son get prison time or is he in a mental hospital getting help? The second is what he needs, sounds like to me. What a thing to have to live with, killing your Mom and Dad, the people who loved you unconditionally. Wonder if they are waiting on him? JMO

sherrijean981

03-02-2007, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Hbgchick thanks for starting the thread! I really believe its unexplainable phenoma that will lead us and I also believe has led us all along lol. I have told Sherrij about something that happened in my home relating to this case and she brought up about jewlery making and asked if I do that. Yes I do and Im new at it. Sherrij you can explain it better lol. It freaked me but I told her she was being intuitive. Okay the story was about cleaning my home and I put all the printouts on this case away and I said Im done with this. I walked in the kitchen to do dishes and I heard a loud noise and went into the diningroom to see. What I saw was my jewlery making supplies , necklaces ect all over the floor. The spot where they fell from was the spot where I also had all the RG printouts. I then went and got all the printouts and put them back to their orginal spot and said out loud " I get the picture". Now sherrij could you explain the rest?

Cb was mentioning a conversation she had with someone and a name that kept coming up. I told her she wouldn't believe it but my ggrandson's last name was that.
CB then says about putting her info on RG away. I threw my info away and then regretted it.
CB said about her jewelry making items falling and I told her I had looked at a book on jewery making that I collected jewelry (beaded necklaces and bracelets) and thought it would be a neat hobby to make them. I was just looking at a jewelry making book but realized to get started it would cost a lot. She then tells me she just bought a jewelry making book.
CB tells me they experienced an episode of their tape player turning on by itself. I told her we have a tv that turns off by itself.
CB says about the being drawn to crystals and a woman in a shop in Bellefonte telling her the first one she bought was a window crystal and that window crystals are used to help locate missing people. My Uncle used to make jewelry with stones and crystals but not the expense kind and that was back in the 50's when I was a child.
CB thought collecting crystals was strange because she collects angels. Again, I collect Seraphim Angels and others of near the same quality, usually one that protects children or the garden set.
I told her I collect cookbooks, other books, buttons, kitchen utensils, men's ties (want to make a quilt or ?) and the jewelry and angels. Some of the books I have collected are on Angel, Good Angels and Bad Angels. One tells how they work and where they are in the Bible. Since recently moving I haven't put out all my books but I want to see where they fit in the RG case as far as helping to find him. :read:

So that's the end of the story. So far! :)

sherrijean981

03-05-2007, 01:41 AM

From my book "Angels A to Z" by James R. Lewis and Evelyn Dorothy Oliver.
"Communication With Angels"
It says Angels can communicate with people in three ways.
1st through audio presentation.
2nd through dreams.
3rd through visual.

But you have to believe and be receptive.

sherrijean981

03-05-2007, 02:22 AM

Also in the Angels A to Z by James R. Lewis and Evelyn Dorothy Oliver there is a part that mentions folklore of the angel of death and three catagories it is in.

The Angel of Death can be defeated, by human deception.

I am taking that to mean, there is a book in Heaven that marks the day we are born and the day we are to die, and if someone makes a person disappear permanently, the angel of death can't be there to receive him, because it was not his time to die as set in the book. It was human deception!! JMO

This book has so many things in it. Stories of Angels, Spirits, Channeling (mediumship), Communication with Angels, Ghosts and Angels, Guardian Angels, How Angels Guard and Guide, Guardian Spirit, Is it Really From the Angels (receiving guidance from angels through dreams, visions, or voices), Ministering Angels, Nature of Angels, Spiritulism, stories on angels, fairies, brownies and dear little Puck, with verses from the Bible on each section, other books/authors to refer to each subject.

Hbgchick

03-05-2007, 01:35 PM

Hm. I could have sworn I posted here the other day but don't see it now...:shrug:

Anyway...any news on that picture? I'd love to get a look at it.

Cloudbuster

03-06-2007, 03:19 AM

I would also LOVE to see the picture! I went out this past weekend and bought a good digital camera with a printer dock.:santa: Yep its Christmas in March for me at least lol!!! I just wish I could understand how to use it lol But Im learning. Also Im planning to use it and hoping to get more paranormal photos. The camera I used when I photographed the grave was a disposable one. I figured if a disposal can pick up all that then a digital gotta be better (ITHINK LOL). Im not allowing anyone to touch it lol.
I really want to photograph the diamond in front of the courthouse ect. I want a picture of the flowers there when they bloom and I want a photo of the parking lot.
I will share the photos if someone can tell me how to make them in the right format for the board?

Cloudbuster

03-07-2007, 01:38 AM

WOW Logic thats incrediable!!! Thanks for sharing it!! Please keep us updated.

sherrijean981

03-07-2007, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by logicworks

No news from the woman yet. I definitely want to see what's on her camera. I have asked my friend to set up a time with her, but as of now, no word back yet.

BUT.......in the meantime......I simply HAVE to pass this along. The strangest thing happened to me yesterday. I said before that these things happen when I am least expecting and not even thinking about them, always seemingly forgetting consciously at that moment that I asked for an answer.

I put off posting this hoping I would have the news story to back up at least part of it. My assistant and I have been watching and listening for it all last night and today. Nothing on the news, so here goes........

I said before answers always manifest physically for me......I can't call it dejavu because it's never something I've seen before, but something that I have questions about, and have thought about recently.

Yesterday afternoon my assistant and I had just finished some afternoon 'runs' and on our way back he said 'don't forget we have to stop here'.......a task I had forgotten about. So I pulled in and I went inside the store, assistant stayed in the car right in front of the shop....all windows, and all glass door. I was the only customer there at the time, other than the people who work there. I never even thought about the fact that at that point in time I was directly below 'that house' up on the hill. I hadn't been at this particular shop for well over a year before.

I told the guy behind the counter what I needed and when I was telling him, I heard the front door open. I turned and looked and the door was open and then it slowly closed but there was no one there. Again NEVER even thinking about 'the house' just up the hill from this shop......I said totally joking 'Look, you have a ghost'. The guy laughed and said 'No ghosts here. Only angels.'

He went off the side of the room to do the work I needed done and when done brought the results over to me. As he did, my assistant came rushing in and said 'Boy! That was really crazy, wasn't it?' I said 'It sure was! Did you see that door open?' He said 'Didn't you see what just happened?' I said 'Yeah. The door opened by itself'. LOL.....he didn't know what the hey I was talking about!

He was sitting in the vehicle right in front of the door that opened and never saw it and I didn't see what he was talking about because I turned away from the door and back to watch this guy do his work.

What happened was.......a truck hit a car hard, demolished it, and the truck continued on up and over the snow bank, came through the landscaping bed, just missed the gas pumps for the convenience mart next door, came flying over and stopped right beside my vehicle and just sat there.

My assistant thought the driver had just got his vehicle 'under control' after an accident. and thought the driver was getting out of the truck. All of a sudden the driver revved the truck engine up, what was left of it, and took off, driving on rims, truck demolished, his bumper, fender, tires, and other parts of his vehicle lay out on the street. My assistant said he didn't know how the vehicle could even run at all. The driver went down a back road where my assistant thought police surely must have caught him, but nothing, not a word in the news.

An ambulance driver pulled in and said the driver had hit someone else up the road before he came and hit this car.

Only reason I can think that it didn't make the news is if it was a medical condition. I need to find out exactly what it was, because it is the answer to the last question I had asked about what happened 'up on the hill'. Was it the son's medical condition that caused it or was it something else?
Do the parents have a reason for needing to stay here?

Some think 'big deal, it was just an accident'. I don't see it that way. I always think about the last question I asked for truth about. In this case, the door opened and in walked..........nothing that I could see. The out of control driver 'hit and ran' twice. Now I need to know the 'rest of the story'.
Even I can't believe I am saying that, never having been a believer in 'ghosts'.
JMO

Was this incident in Centre County? I thought I had heard something on the news about someone leaving the scene of an accident. But my thought is the man in the store said only angels there. Your assistant was in the car and the vehicle stopped next to your car so maybe the door opening was an angel going out of the building and stopping that car from hitting your car and your assistant? Just a thought to ponder.

Cloudbuster

03-07-2007, 03:53 AM

I thought you all would enjoy a earlier article:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05177/528516.stm
Psychic says missing man was killed

Sunday, June 26, 2005

Carla Baron, the psychic profiler working on the Ray Gricar case, believes the missing 59-year-old district attorney was killed. Here is the scenario she laid out for what could have happened to him:

Gricar, who planned to retire at the end of this year, stumbled upon information of an --illegal scheme --that--- threatened the income of several people-- involved in a criminal network-- over a period of years. He got the information four to six weeks before his disappearance and planned to talk to someone in-- higher government.

Those in the criminal network found out that Gricar was on to them, and they were following him.

"It was too much of a danger to them and their operation," Baron said. "At the root of this is a lot of money."

Baron doesn't believe they planned to kidnap Gricar on April 15, the day he disappeared, but because he drove out of town, the opportunity presented itself.

When Gricar parked his car at the antique shop in Lewisburg, he was approached by two men in a tan, four-door car. The driver leaned in Gricar's passenger window and showed him a gun beneath his shirt.

"I could see the hairs on the guy's arm leaning in," she said.

Apparently, the man threatened Gricar, who left with them in their car.

A man in the back seat used plastic ties to secure Gricar's hands behind his back.

"The reason he went with them, he didn't want any harm to come to the people he loved," Baron said. "The threat was on the table."

She believes the men then took Gricar to a --large warehouse --where they do business.

Baron sees a series of bay doors that roll up, as well as people standing around writing on --clipboards. She believes a road runs parallel to the warehouse and there are railroad tracks that go up and slope back down again. She thinks Route 15 will come into play, and she also sees an underpass with concrete buttresses.

Baron believes the attackers---- copied what was on Gricar's laptop computer, which police have been unable to find, ---and then destroyed it.

She believes they killed Gricar that night and buried him in a shallow grave near--- their workplace--- so they could keep an eye on it.

"The same people that picked up Ray --are not the ones that killed him,"--- Baron said. "I have a feeling we're going to find them and connect them to this before we find Ray."

She believes Gricar's body is five to 15 minutes away from the spot in Lewisburg where his car was found.

sherrijean981

03-07-2007, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
I thought you all would enjoy a earlier article:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05177/528516.stm
Psychic says missing man was killed

Sunday, June 26, 2005

Carla Baron, the psychic profiler working on the Ray Gricar case, believes the missing 59-year-old district attorney was killed. Here is the scenario she laid out for what could have happened to him:

Gricar, who planned to retire at the end of this year, stumbled upon information of an --illegal scheme --that--- threatened the income of several people-- involved in a criminal network-- over a period of years. He got the information four to six weeks before his disappearance and planned to talk to someone in-- higher government.

Those in the criminal network found out that Gricar was on to them, and they were following him.

"It was too much of a danger to them and their operation," Baron said. "At the root of this is a lot of money."

Baron doesn't believe they planned to kidnap Gricar on April 15, the day he disappeared, but because he drove out of town, the opportunity presented itself.

When Gricar parked his car at the antique shop in Lewisburg, he was approached by two men in a tan, four-door car. The driver leaned in Gricar's passenger window and showed him a gun beneath his shirt.

"I could see the hairs on the guy's arm leaning in," she said.

Apparently, the man threatened Gricar, who left with them in their car.

A man in the back seat used plastic ties to secure Gricar's hands behind his back.

"The reason he went with them, he didn't want any harm to come to the people he loved," Baron said. "The threat was on the table."

She believes the men then took Gricar to a --large warehouse --where they do business.

Baron sees a series of bay doors that roll up, as well as people standing around writing on --clipboards. She believes a road runs parallel to the warehouse and there are railroad tracks that go up and slope back down again. She thinks Route 15 will come into play, and she also sees an underpass with concrete buttresses.

Baron believes the attackers---- copied what was on Gricar's laptop computer, which police have been unable to find, ---and then destroyed it.

She believes they killed Gricar that night and buried him in a shallow grave near--- their workplace--- so they could keep an eye on it.

"The same people that picked up Ray --are not the ones that killed him,"--- Baron said. "I have a feeling we're going to find them and connect them to this before we find Ray."

She believes Gricar's body is five to 15 minutes away from the spot in Lewisburg where his car was found.

CB, This is the article I had seen but there is a difference between the show they did and this story she gave. She says he is buried here but on the show they show him being thrown over a bank on a dead end road.

Also she says he is 5 to 15 minutes away but at what speed would you need to be going to get wherever? If the speed they were driving were known we could go down, drive the 5 minutes out from Lewisburg and make a note of it, then drive the 15 minutes further. Get a map, 2 strings and Lewisburg as the center point, make a circle from the 5 minute around Lewisburg and then the 15 minute spot and around. You would then have a large circle 5 to 15 minutes around Lewisburg. Big area!! Does this make sense?

Then she says he was going to someone higher in Government so who is higher than him, that he would have gone to? Attorney General!

A drug bust? or organized theft ring? Cars or merchandise with the warehouse being the pick up or drop off spot? This is what I had thought from the beginning.

If he was being watched, he unexpectedly went out of town, they followed and had their opportunity. Was he down there before and stumbled on to it there or was part of the business in Bellefonte? Had they seen him and had watched him for a while? To see what he would do with the info? Or was it such a large area they were working that on his time off he has been investigating? Maybe talking to DA's from other counties at the antique malls, so as not to be suspect to the watcher, not to let them think it is a business meeting but a casual meeting of people interested in antiques?

It would then explain his talking to a woman because I think on my searches I saw one of the counties has a female DA. He must have been going to meet someone if he had his computer and was either getting info from them or showing info he had but never had the chance.

Then we know there were 3 men, the Gerber brothers, that had a large theft ring going on all over the eastern part of PA but it was never mentioned as far as Lewisburg, but what if the investigation was still going on or the LE did not know it went that far? We also know all the drug busts that were being investigated in Lewisburg at the time, in Bellefonte at that time and in many other areas of Pa at that time and most were not arrested for a couple years after the investigations started. RG was right in the center of numerous ones in Centre County at that time. At least one in Milesburg made big bucks from his part of the business.

From the look of his picture in the last one before he died he was very stressed about something. Was someone not on the list of people that he knew should have been? Was there a name on the list that he knew? Someone in a high position than your ordinary druggie dealing **** bags? Someone in a position that was to put them away in jail, but used his position to get info of his own from them, and had his own business going from that info?

Someone that would lead LE away from RG's murder to a suicide theory to protect his own butt? to keep LE away from himself and his business? Someone who knew RG so well that he could manipulate the whole situation? One that can give info but has not be given a lie detector test? That is a whole lot of someone's or maybe not! JMO

sherrijean981

03-07-2007, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

I LOVE my car.
I prayed for this older model and within 10 minutes it came to me exactly where I was to go, the third hill up behind a dealership. about 10 miles away.

I went there and there it sat, the very vehicle I wanted. The salesman said there was no such car there, but I said go see for yourself.....LOL. I adore it, 4 wheel drive, low mileage, and beyond reasonable, exact year, model, and color I wanted.

LOL......So I asked for someone who has been in a cave for the last ten years, thus not a 'silly actor'.

The man in the shop was right the. He only had angels there and the door opening was to let one out, not someone in!

I had a similar experience with a car about 15 years ago. We needed a second car and I always liked the Oldsmobiles, had learned to drive in big cars. When looking in the Bargain Sheet I found one for a very low price and it was out in the middle of nowhere. My hubby and I talked on the way to see it and said well for the money it won't be much to look at. I also say my silent prayers when I need something and I did pray for a good running car. We went around a turn and I swear, It set in this man's driveway with the sun sparkling off of it so it looked like stars. It was an 1983 Olds 88, white with a red landau top and red interior. It was beautiful and the best riding car, comfortable car you could want. We bought it and couldn't figure why he only wanted the small amount. On the way home the check engine light came on so we thought major repair but it still sounded good. Had it put on a machine to check for problem and it turned out to be a $26 part. When the man called to ask how we liked it a week later we told him about the problem. He was very surprised all the more it cost, so he knew about the problem and never said anything, thinking it would be major problem. His wife told us a couple years later at a grocery store he was sorry he ever sold it. We got 5 years out of it.

I worked in State College and going up the Seven Mountains when I passed a truck, white smoke or fumes was coming out of the exhaust. I got to work, came back home at the end of the day, shut the car off and it never started again. The engine was blown, never a noise, it just went. We still have the second engine in the shed we bought for it. We found another one only blue and white, exact type with landau and just about the same price. We had seen a cadillac before this one in the same color they wanted $2800 for and this was less that half the price for the exact same interior and color. It also lasted 5 years, same engine problem. That is about the amount of time I am permitted to own a car. I think my angels can only protect it that long. lol
We eventually ended up with my Chrysler New Yorker and I have had it 4 years and just as comfortable and a pleasure to drive and ride in. Same low price but had a few problems over the years but thank God it has served me good and protected me on the road.

Isn't it wonderful how God gives us just what we need in his own time?

It also sounds like you have a wonderful assistant but after all this time he must be used to your intuitive nature and help from God? He certainly watched out for him that day and the area you were in. :)

sherrijean981

03-09-2007, 02:03 AM

CB, I think this was the woman in the paper I read about but not sure. I believe she is the one you listed on the other thread. She helped with over 550 police investigations.
http://www.nancymyer-psychicdetective.com/

Cloudbuster

03-09-2007, 02:43 AM

Sherrij is was not me who posted about her BUT strangley before I got on here tonight she was on court tv in one of their shows. Boy she is good!!! Maybe they could ask her? I bet she will know alot if shes anything like the show presented her tonight on. If CB is done with the case and its cold why not try her there is nothing to lose.
I been to a few myself. Each persons answers being similiar but yet different.

Serendipitous1

03-10-2007, 04:48 PM

Personally, I do not ascribe to psychic musings, though I would like to think I keep an open mind. Perhaps I just allow too much negative energy in. But I do have a recurring subliminal thought in regard to RG's disappearance - one that (just throwing it out here) involves "Evangelical Community Hospital" (which I know is outside Lewisburg) and "Port Royal" (which I know is in Juniata County). I have no idea what this means! Anyone?

sherrijean981

03-11-2007, 12:43 AM

sherrijean981

03-11-2007, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Personally, I do not ascribe to psychic musings, though I would like to think I keep an open mind. Perhaps I just allow too much negative energy in. But I do have a recurring subliminal thought in regard to RG's disappearance - one that (just throwing it out here) involves "Evangelical Community Hospital" (which I know is outside Lewisburg) and "Port Royal" (which I know is in Juniata County). I have no idea what this means! Anyone?

After watching the last two weekend special hour programmings on Haunting Evidence, I am not any further in believing in CB. I know I have feelings on things, know things happen but could be God's nudging's to me personally to get my act together and I know people who things have happened to and have seen things. I have always questioned what happens to the souls of people God has not admitted into heaven because of an offense they committed but that was too small to go to the devil. Are they in limbo waiting or do they have to come back and correct their offense in some way? I don't know.

So I am putting this link on the forum that I found a couple days ago. I have no idea what the rhyme or reason is, only that we have multi professionals in all fields of business, a couple retired or active police officers, one an investigator and all are part of a ghostly/psychic school/business, part time.

My thoughts are if they are a school and are teaching numerous students, maybe they are looking for a project to work on. They have classes in various fields and each student has to pass each class.

They have made available their email addresses. Some are in NJ and PA and they work in NY, NJ, and PA. My suggestion is to email the top guy, the police officers and the investigators and put this mystery to them, have them read the forum to see what theory's are going on, where else we should look or if they have been following it maybe they could give us their points of view.

Just a suggestion:
http://southjerseyghostresearch.org/sjgrmembers/

sherrijean981

03-12-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by logicworks
After sleeping on the midwife theory, I did some 'intuitive' work today, asking for higher guidance. I am going to be brave here and venture to interpret what I think this means as I go along.

I went back to the place near where 220 intersects with route 15, Williamsport, where I looked out over the Susquehanna River right after RG disappeared and thought how beautiful and my car felt like it was picked up, shook hard and put down, transmission gone, at the large billboard of a mother nursing her baby.

Today I looked to see what other 'signs' might be close by and was completely 'blown away' by first sign I saw....Bastian.
That is the name I found yesterday, of the lactation consultant at Geisinger. (thinking at this time 'why didn't I see that before?' And I know the answer is because I wasn't ready for it yet.)

I looked for more.....saw one other one....Susquehanna Supply. I could hardly wait to get home to look it up. I knew it was a local to Wmspt paper company, but didn't feel that was what I was looking for. I thought about the river water supply, but felt that wasn't it either. I wanted to see what came up online when I put in Susquehanna Supply....... looking for a business close by that had the name Susquehanna attached to it.....Sure enough......first thing that came up was a supply place between route 45 bridge in Lewisburg and route 147. It is on Center Street, a small back street in Montandon.

It is right down the road from where, (when I looked on gis map), I saw two faces when I scanned across the route 45 bridge to see what was on the other side from where RG's car was parked. (When I first saw them, I thought 'what are those two faces doing on a map?' I thought it was an advertisement, something to do with the GIS map.....LOL. I had them enlarged to get a better look.)

Was a search ever done of any outlying areas in that direction? On the map it appears there is a large open area from Center Street, all the way up to a Milton Airfield? There is a Housels Run Road to the right on the map, and up above, a Milton Airfield?
Only thing closeby running up through the area is a set of railroad tracks from what I see on the map.

Going back to that day when my car shook to remember every single little detail.
I called for a tow truck.
Drive came with a big red and white (flashy)...(Isn't that the same description of RG's mini?).... flatbed truck.
Pulled my car up on the flatbed.
The driver said we needed to go get gas in his truck..(I thought that was rather 'strange')
We went to a back alley by a big junkyard, (Locust street), just above.... Center street..... (need to check to see if there is a junkyard on that back Center Street in Montandon). I already checked on the map for a Locust Street. Closest I found was in Milton about a block or two from where WIC lactation meetings are held.

Going back over everything in finest detail.....
Driver filled up with gas and headed for Centre County. All the way back, the truck rode so rough, I was shaken harder than I have ever been in any truck.

Driver missed the beltway turnoff and ended up having to go through towns he didn't want to go through.
(Guessing maybe this could have happened to the driver of the Mini.)

Unloaded the car at parking lot.
(Just realized!!.... it was the same dealership where I was guided to go to up on the third hill to find my next new 'old' car... months later.) Wonder if there are any 'third' hills behind Center Street in Montandon.

He dropped me off at work, where I called my boss to use another car and left again, to go see my dad who was very ill.

Just putting this 'out there'.......hoping it might somehow all piece together, or that someone might pick up on something I may have missed, or misinterpreted.

Doing a grid map based on 'intuition', rather large area, but would define it as.....
1. bottom line, route 45
2. left upward line, route 405
3. right upward line, route 147
4 top line, route 642

To get even more specific, I would go with route 45 to Housel's Run Road (I think that is what it's called, can't see it all that well on my map) up to and including Milton Airfield and back down close to railroad tracks.
That is my best 'intuitive' guess *today* judging from what I can make out of what happened to me nearly two years ago and piecing the 'Susquehanna' into it.
Just an 'intuitive' opinion.

Check the Map Quest interactive map. Rt 45, Lewisburg, PA. I followed it to Montandon and almost to the Rt 147 intersection or bypass there is a turnoff on the left with a railroad running alongside the turn off. Goes back to a factory of somekind. What I found odd is there is a white dot on Rt 147 beside that road. I didn't see any other dots on the highway.

Also this was towards the turnoff I had mentioned a long time ago that had led to another quarry with a railroad running to it and then stopping. It also led back to Milton. I haven't checked again to see what the Rt numbers are and I don't remember. So I will check that out. I was wondering how many miles that place was from where RG's car was? How about Montandon?

sherrijean981

03-12-2007, 11:17 AM

It is 1.86 miles from Rt 45 Lewisburg to Montandon but would not give me distance to Wolfe Rd just before Rt 147 so I assume it is only a very short distance. I also did find other white circles on the Rt 147. Now what do they mean, mile markers? or where the road pillars are?

I also can not find the area I was talking about. I will have to do further searching with other maps. I get so frustrated when I can't remember the road names. I know 254 was one from Milton and it eventually came back to Rt 45. The area I mentioned would be easier to get to from 45 than 254. JMO

I have a question now. If you are getting all the places and names of the people you suspect RG could have been meeting with, are you now going to get in touch with them to find out if he did in fact meet with them and got his information? What is the LE got phone calls from these people and told them about their meeting, maybe they already know he was there, what he talked to them about and what it was in reference to. They haven't been forthcoming in other items so they wouldn't here either.

My opinion is this: RG is working on a shaken baby syndrome and in my mind the lowest kind of person would do this, a horrible thing for anyone to go through, but a small innocent child to suffer that way? From the man who is supposed to love and take care of him? What kind of fear did that dear little baby endure at his hands that day?

RG was getting ready to fight for this small child who never had a chance at living a life, with all the life's experiences that go with it. He finds out everything he needs to know and it would put this man away or to death forever. But someone decides instead of letting this non-American die or go to prison they will let RG be "disappeared" forever. One good man and an innocent baby for the freedom of a killer. Now did this decision come from the killer's friends/family/associates/country or was it RG's own friends/family/associates/country that has caused this huge loss?

Where would they have done this deed? Put his body?

What if he found his info and was on the way back but someone from another case that has been furious with RG for a long time, that has been watching him, decides it is time to get rid of him. The computer has nothing to do with it other than it was in the car and they wanted to get rid of it, just to throw LE off? What if there are a couple connecting factors with a two cases going on? Or this was just his chance to get RG alone?

So this is what my mind has come to. A jumble of all the information and now we have it how do we put it together? Questions, questions and more questions!

sherrijean981

03-12-2007, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by logicworks
There is a local group at PSU in State College who are also into ghosts.
I had heard of the group before but that's about it.
I remember a friend of mine saying he attended the conference there. If I recall correctly, Carla Baron was supposed to be there but then cancelled.
I just noticed when I found this link, there is something about their role in calling Carla Baron's attention to the Cindy Song case.

Never had an interest in ghost hunting myself, so just passing it along for anyone who is interested and because it is local. I would think if Carla Baron worked with them on the Song case, maybe they also were somewhat involved in the Gricar case.
I just scanned over it quickly so maybe there is something about the Gricar case on it??

I notice they have a posting board that may be of interest to some.

http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/paranormal/ABOUTPRS/empire2.shtml

Just passing it along for those who are interested.

I checked this site out and read a lot of the threads but all I was getting from it was that CB and one of the men who started this club were friends at one time. He brought her in for the Cindy Song case but he found out after she was coming to town that she was doing a show on RG?

I question why he didn't have her there himself on the high profile disappearance of RG, Missing DA? Why wait for someone else to do it? Or do they only worry about the young college people a this club?

I did find the experiences of other people posting very interesting and made me think a little on CB, Logic and others on the forum. What I call a house settling for the night, to other people a spirit?

One I did relate to was the feeling of someone behind you or the flitting in the corner of the eye, like someone had moved but no one there. Or the smell of your father's aftershave (and he being gone since 1998) in a time of pain and stress.

I was missing a former preacher and his wife, that had been there for me, when I was going through my first experience with breast cancer. He and his wife moved away and I lost a very good preacher. We have only talked or written a couple times over the years since the late 1980's. Lately I had thought a lot of them but knew they had moved and did not have a new address. During the holiday season we received a long missed letter from them with their new address. After years of not writing, to finally hear from them, it was like a gift from God. I am now waiting to hear from them again. I asked for a copy of a song they used to sing at church, that got me through my radiation treatments. I am now hoping I get it from them.

Are our thoughts being transmitted by our Guardian Angels who work through God? If so we should get a large prayer chain going for RG. They work for healing, maybe it will work for finding.
JMO

Cloudbuster

03-13-2007, 02:22 AM

Here is a link to Carlas haunting journal. It has many photos!!!
http://home.att.net/~carla.baron/hauntingjournal2.html

Here is another interesting link:

http://paranormal.about.com/library/blnews.htm

sherrijean981

03-14-2007, 02:16 AM

I had recently read a posting on CB about the RG case. Tonight one of the things mentioned about her visit and what she was "seeing" in the warehouse popped in my head and I had to mention it.

We were watching a Court TV program about an investigation on a murder. It turned out they caught the guy because of the plastic ties used to tie up the victim's hands. They were strong and cheaper to use and could be carried in their vehicles or on their person. He had used plastic ties that only law enforcement used on criminals they were arresting. It turned out to be someone who was connected with law enforcement but had been out of it for a while, but kept the ties in his home.

CB said RG was tied with plastic ties, so were they the kind law enforcement use? Was someone in LE with him? Just a thought I had today.

Cloudbuster

03-15-2007, 04:39 AM

Interesting thoughts Sherrij! The ties would be in the car cause they intended to use them on RG (if CB is right).
So they knew who they intended to abduct. (all based on if CB is right).
CB also said the abductors was NOT the persons who killed RG.
So that means they was the stalkers-followers of RG. The people responsible for delivering him.
If CB is right I can see RG going if he saw a gun and a threat was made.

Key--- how can the place they took him be in Milton if they was following RG? I don't think RG just conviently traveled to their headquater area?

Someone had to know exactly where Ray was heading and what time? Think about it. Someone may have even suggested he go to the place he frequented in Lewisburg as a means of rest and relaxation from the fatigue. That person would have to know where he was heading. Thats the best innocent way to get Ray there. Problem is all we have is PF getting that call. She wanted a notice on Honey the dog so she could know if she had to go home to feed Honey. She would be the only one that could know when Ray was in route to there? If only we could see who else knew --those darn phone records! MOO

sherrijean981

03-15-2007, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

His name is changed here in the US from Mendez to Vargas, and then back to Mendez once back in Costa Rica. It says he had an extended visit to the US on website, and that his wife would soon be joining him. Two people, so in love that they fight all the way across America to see this wrong made right now don't want to be immediately together now that nothing is stopping them.

Out of all of his cases, this one stuck out like a 'sore thumb', including threats and LE being called in as a result of those threats. The ending makes no sense.
JMO

Maybe just get him out of the US before they find RG's body? Connecting something to VM? Had anyone from Costa Rica come to Centre County, arriving at University Airport, anytime close to when RG disappeared? A friend or relative of V/M? Did he leave the states alone or with someone else? Has his wife ever gone there or is she still here alone?

If so, maybe she has found out since then that he was connected with his babies death and will not be following him. Maybe the idea was to get him out of the states and never see him again. JMO

sherrijean981

03-15-2007, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Interesting thoughts Sherrij! The ties would be in the car cause they intended to use them on RG (if CB is right).
So they knew who they intended to abduct. (all based on if CB is right).
CB also said the abductors was NOT the persons who killed RG.
So that means they was the stalkers-followers of RG. The people responsible for delivering him.
If CB is right I can see RG going if he saw a gun and a threat was made.

Key--- how can the place they took him be in Milton if they was following RG? I don't think RG just conviently traveled to their headquater area?

Someone had to know exactly where Ray was heading and what time? Think about it. Someone may have even suggested he go to the place he frequented in Lewisburg as a means of rest and relaxation from the fatigue. That person would have to know where he was heading. Thats the best innocent way to get Ray there. Problem is all we have is PF getting that call. She wanted a notice on Honey the dog so she could know if she had to go home to feed Honey. She would be the only one that could know when Ray was in route to there? If only we could see who else knew --those darn phone records! MOO

You showed links to a Bed & Breakfast at the old farm. Was that place checked to see if RG had been there?

Also is there anyway to get the info from the people you suggested he was meeting with? Would they freely tell anyone other than LE that RG had met with them and why didn't they come forward after he disappeared? They wouldn't really be breaking a confidence of another person, since he was just asking about info on the V/M babies case. That info would have helped LE immensely, at least connecting it to a case he was working on at the time.

On a different subject just mentioned recently about environment issues, RG would turn a company in that he knew something illegal was going on. He did it with the case of the Zion man that was illegally dumping waste from funeral homes and outhouses. It was due to RG reporting the man, that he was fined. Why not a larger company? JMO

sherrijean981

08-02-2007, 07:29 PM

LW,
I was reading a novel and found a reference to one of your horses.

The woman is reading a book "Secrets of Gypsy Fortune-telling" by Raymond Buckland (I researched the name and found the author), and is learning about reading tea leafs. One of the things was reading tea leaves with just a small amount of tea in the cup ans swirling it around. You will have to get the book to see how many times, but after it settles the leaves on the sides make a pattern of something and you are to see what it is. She swirled and her shape was in the shape of a horse's head. She looked in the book and it said that "a lover is coming". There was another shape and the book says whatever comes to mind first is what you would look for. She found a pyramid but it also could have been a triangle. Looking up pyramid it means "a great secret will be revealed."

Now with your horse who would the lover be coming to you? And are your triangles more a pyramid or triangle? And where is your secret going to be revealed?

There are books available on an internet site.

day2day

08-02-2007, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

Phone and appointment records would probably tell a whole different story than the one we've heard.......he was off relaxing after sleeping in that morning.

Either he was followed or someone knew his destination, if not his route of travel. Foul play scenario leans more toward 'planned' than 'random', IMO. There would be no time to impliment a plan just from overhearing a conversation about location on route 192. Doubtful RG felt in any danger at the time of call, IF he didn't say so on the phone or call 911 instead.

Maybe the person he was going to meet was a bit 'skittish' considering it could be related to murder charges. Meeting at the park or walking through the Street of Shops instead of a 'sit-down' meeting possibly points toward not wanting to discuss something in an office setting?

Since his car was by the park and then left, obviously he went somewhere else. Milton or enroute to Milton, holds possibility, IMO, if he planned to meet with the County expert, which I would think was a possibility if that was his reason for being in another county that day. Going to Milton might 'press' the timeline, if he also intended to go to Danville that day, and be back home by 5.

He may have gone from Lewisburg, let's say 1:30-ish, on to Danville, with meeting 2-3, leaving to be back home by 5. That leaves a 2-3 hour window for whatever happened.

Allowing 1/2 hour to return the car to the lot, leaves a 1.5 hour window, meaning possibly somewhere immediately following a Danville meeting. Considering the jeep was found at the drive in close to where the Danville meeting would have taken place, seems possible that whatever happened was in that area.

That's Montour County; Bob Buehner's area. Is that why he was hollering so loudly? Obviously he wouldn't have sat on the case.
Centre County's doing so doesn't seem to impress BB.

Surely if RG had an appointment at Geisinger, it would be known by LE. If they didn't find it out on their own, the expert would surely have come forward to say 'we had an appointment that day'. Possibly more of what we're not being told?

Thinking about AVM's 'hand slap' with an free ride home ticket in the other hand.....he was in jail at the time, so LE knew he personally couldn't have done it. Thought about the possibility of whether he was involved or not, even from jail contacts, it wouldn't stop LE later on, if anything ever did surface.

Once offered an opportunity to get out of jail to be with his wife, who was ballistic thoughout his prison time to free him to her loving arms, he instead choses to leave and return to Costa Rica. OH....yes..... She will be returning there with him. Why does she have to wait? Why doesn't he take her with him? Why doesn't he stay here with her?

His name is changed here in the US from Mendez to Vargas, and then back to Mendez once back in Costa Rica. It says he had an extended visit to the US on website, and that his wife would soon be joining him. Two people, so in love that they fight all the way across America to see this wrong made right now don't want to be immediately together now that nothing is stopping them.

Out of all of his cases, this one stuck out like a 'sore thumb', including threats and LE being called in as a result of those threats. The ending makes no sense.
JMO

Hi LW!
This case has also bothered me...!!

Cinderella

08-21-2007, 03:32 PM

I thought that maybe this would be a great thread to compare what unusual things happen in our life so that we can compare with others that want to take part. Many posters have experienced the water situations. So I am going to bring those over to this thread. We might see that we could be receiving clues and not know it. I know that God wants Ray to be found. So with a prayer that God will help us and reveal where Ray is here we go. Anything Unusual that catches your eye or doesn't happen normally.

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logicworks
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 1566

Intuition.....pass on by if not interested.

Passing this along because of the timing of when I sense it could have been planted. I started sensing there was something related to RG under 'a' bridge in June and told billywahoo about what I was sensing in a PM weeks before it was found. I assumed billywahoo was LE related, since I had been asked questions earlier about what I sensed.

I asked if the two bridges had been thoroughly checked underneath because I kept seeing a bridge, with stones going up the sides, like they do on the big bridges, and there being something tucked under it. (Only thought of 'tucked' because I sensed it was so close to the bridge, it was actually touching a part of the structure.)

Assuming both bridges had been more than thoroughly checked out and because I sensed what appeared to be a wooden bridge closeby I asked BW if Hufnagle Park area could be checked out, where there is a wooden bridge, and not far from the other bridges according to what I was able to find online about the closest wooden bridge.

I didn't know if it was a weapon, the laptop, some possession of RG's or RG himself. Just knew there was something related to RG under a bridge and wanted it checked out. Who or where or IF BW took it from there, I don't know. But if I were going to put a time on it being placed there based solely on when I started sensing it, it began in June. I vow next case, I WILL log everything day by day.

IF BW is still around he might remember the date when I PM'd him. I will look back through my piles of notes to see if I can find it. Maybe by reading some of the old posts I can come up with it.
From what I recall now in hindsight, it was somewhere around the first of July when I PM'd him, but I had been sensing it for a couple of weeks before. It could have been there and it just took me that long to pick up on it, but if placed, and I sensed that placement, then early to mid-june would be my best guess, for what it's worth.
All just my intuitive opinion.

08-21-2007 01:08 AM

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Cinderella
Member

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: My posts are my thoughts and opinions only.
Posts: 243
Logic,

First of all I saw your horses head today in a country book, it might be Called a Taste of Country. The head of the horse is almost exactly like the horse lake head. It was outside and like a iron horse head. I had snow on it. I don't know if it sat on top of a mailbox or was just outside someone's house sitting. It was just the head. I also saw horses in some pictures, but they didn't stand out like the head because it looked exactly like the horse head lake.

Another thing is probably since Ray disappeared, I have been no matter how careful I am always stepping close to my dogs water dish and spilling the water constantly. Last evening, I thought why does this happen all the time to me, then the idea of water came to me.

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08-21-2007 01:19 AM
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logicworks
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 1566

What I have found particularly interesting, is whenever I ask anyone where they think RG is, the answers are always water related. Not certain if that is because of the river scenario, or if it's collective consciousness, but after last week's 'leaks', I am all the further convinced some part is still water related.

I continue to read 'No Stone Unturned' to see if there are any other apparent things a copycat might had studied. I am nearing the end, a drug case, where the users are caught, going to trial, but decide to kill the informant.

In the informants case, they got a U-haul truck, and had a barrel in the back with cement mix, all ready to put her in after they hit her, but one of the guys panicked when she fought back, so he ran out and took off with the U-haul truck forcing them to come up with an alternate plan. She ended up in a car at the bottom of a quarry lake.

In the set-up to catch them, they had another guy pretend he was going to get rid of an informant and asked for their help.

ONE thing struck me as particularly 'strange'.....they asked the guy if he had a friend who worked on a farm. If so, they said a hay chopper would hide him so good NO one would ever find him.
It was SO hauntingly reminiscent of what BJL was rumored to have said.....'I hid him so good no one will ever find him.'
It almost sounded like a word for word rendition of what these guys said. Skeeeery.
JMO

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08-21-2007 02:07 AM
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Cloudbuster
Member

Registered: Feb 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 553
Im in awe at all these water clues. Now Cind has a water clue. I have water leaks occurring? Im just curious about how many on the forum are experiencing water leaks currently or something to due with water? We have 3 of us now and ? Anyone else?

I just thought I would ask because I believe there are no coindences and perhaps the water holds a big clue? Stop and think and notice it if it does happen to you. I like this one lets get group consious lol.

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08-21-2007 03:14 AM
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day2day
Senior Member

Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Supporting Shasta and Steve!
Posts: 2590

Does a toilet leak count?! If so -count me in...

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08-21-2007 06:24 AM
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gstickley
Member

Registered: Oct 2006
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Posts: 616
Continuous drip in bathroom sink faucet.

(Has rained on & off for last 2 days; big dought before that)
(Had to pay water bill yesterday)

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08-21-2007 06:35 AM
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sherrijean981
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Milroy, PA
Posts: 1616
Does a leak from the front window or side window in the car count? It soaked my passenger side of the front seat! I looked and felt like I wet myself until we drove an hour to pick up our ggrandson!

Also the huge water break under my kitchen sink and the large repair job and last week the bathroom drain was leaking!

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08-21-2007 07:39 AM

Cinderella

08-21-2007, 03:39 PM

logicworks
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 1566

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sherrijean981
Does a leak from the front window or side window in the car count? It soaked my passenger side of the front seat! I looked and felt like I wet myself until we drove an hour to pick up our ggrandson!

Also the huge water break under my kitchen sink and the large repair job and last week the bathroom drain was leaking!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I forgot about the car. I had the same thing happen last week.
If I wasn't ducking from the leaks, or wading through it, I was sitting in it.

I still think the answer is connected to water, the constant question being......'where is RG'?
If our clue is water, then 'where'?
The location may well determine the who and why.

I wonder if LE has conducted any searches since the early searches of the area below the bridges, the quarry pond on route 45, or the area S1 speaks of at Shickellamy Park overlook.

If none of them render any clues, then back to Centre County. I would begin at Penn's Cave Lake area or the heart itself, to clear that up as being only the possible call area, then on to Sayer's Dam.

The fact that there is no body most likely indicates 'hidden' rather than 'just not stumbled across yet', so the river areas are doubtful but if they were searched with dogs, at least we could move them from the top of the list to the bottom.
And when might we expect to see any of this happen?

Last night's reading of No Stone Unturned had LE out at a quarry, mid February, 20 degrees out, drilling through ice searching, and it turned out it wasn't the right quarry. Still haven't got to the part of where they finally find her in a quarry, but I was in awe of how far these LE teams went to search for the answer when we see nothing but a notice to hunters....'hey, if you trip over anything, call us. 'cause we're missing a DA'.......Something totally wrong with that picture.
JMO

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08-21-2007 10:06 AM

Cinderella

08-21-2007, 03:46 PM

Last night, I had something totally unexpected happen to me.
The plasitc panel that covers the vanity lightbulbs came crashing down into the sink. When I looked at the plastic panel to see what happened, it had broken in the middle. Exposing the light for me to see better. It uncovered the light. Does that mean that God wants Ray's disappearance exposed or maybe God will shine more light on the situation. Just wanted to tell you to see if this happens to anyone else. Anything about the light.

I am not a psychic, but after Logic has been saying things, I notice things more than I used to.

If anyone is interested just jot down anything unusual or any unusual feelings.

Pray that God would reveal to you anything that could pertain to this case. Expect to receive some thoughts or information.

Cinderella

08-21-2007, 03:53 PM

As I hit the former post send button, something came to my mind.
Yesterday, I was told that I could talk to a certain male person and that he would be there all day. Today I called and asked to speak to him and the woman said that he wasn't there. He was at a different area. Could that mean that someone told Ray that they would meet him and that person didn't show up?

Cinderella

08-21-2007, 11:30 PM

What a wonderful post, Logic. When I think about the plastic crashing down in the sink, I was thinking about water again. A sink is what holds water and lets it out. I am wondering, could Ray have fallen in the water or something that holds water. A sink is also called a basin. It was very forceful though. It was like being thrown with a crash. It seems more like if that happened, then it was forceful. Somebody either threw him or he jumped. A big crash. There is the broken part also. It was broke in half. I have to say that once I thought about all of it, it could be a sign. I am not a psychic. I don't know where Ray is. I have been praying to find answers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basin

Wash basin, a bowl (vessel) designed to contain water for the purpose of cleaning hands and other minor ablutions; see also sink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_basin

A drainage basin is a region of land where water from rain or snow melt drains downhill into a body of water, such as a river, lake, dam, estuary, wetland, sea or ocean. The drainage basin includes both the streams and rivers that convey the water as well as the land surfaces from which water drains into those channels. The drainage basin acts like a funnel - collecting all the water within the area covered by the basin and channeling it into a waterway. Each drainage basin is separated topographically from adjacent basins by a ridge, hill or mountain, which is known as a water divide or a watershed. Especially in North American usage however, watershed refers to the drainage basin itself. Other terms that can be used to describe the same concept are catchment, catchment area, catchment basin, drainage area, river basin and water basin.

Serendipitous1

08-22-2007, 12:11 AM

Sorry for "stepping" on your post, gs. "Sometimes I feel like a motherless child."

Cinderella

08-22-2007, 12:24 AM

That is a good thought and that is what we need for posters to give their impressions. I don't feel anything about it, because my plastic fell or crashed from a higher up area above the sink. So I don't think that their are any high areas that someone could throw a person in that water or even if a person jumped in it would have to be higher. From my point of view. From my sink incident, I don't get the feeling that he jumped in. It was like a crash, like he would be thrown in. If that is what happened to him. I thank you for posting though. It could have maybe been what we were looking for, but I don't think.

It could have been either the Bellefonte quarry or the Jacksonville quarry. I would think that it might be the Jacksonville quarry because it is close to Howard. It also could have been from the Howard Dam that area that Logic was looking at as the horse. You can walk up there and it is high above the water. I would be pretty sure that it would have to have a fence so that no one could get hurt. I have never been up there, but I think that there is a marker about Joseph Foster Sayer. I am not sure what is up there or how it is. My legs are not that good for climbing or going up hills so I could not check it out, but it is possible. That is from what I thought about my sink incidence. It could be somewhere else like I guess the Shilkellamy Park place or some high place.

Keep thinking about these incidents and watching around you. I forget who said that they had a leaky faucet, that could indicate water coming out, like a dam. I don't know, as this is new to me.
Anything that might help find Ray, I am not discounting.

gstickley, when I was getting read to send this, I backtracked to your post and the word "Dam" caught my eye. Maybe he is at a Dam. I was thinking of the specific dam that you posted, but it could just be the word "dam". They could be the reason that you felt to post that. Just for that one word. :shrug:

Serendipitous1

08-22-2007, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by gstickley

Once again: ??? It has happened. JMO

Cinderella

08-22-2007, 07:50 AM

S1,

One of the mothers on the site would probably adopt you. How old of a mother are you looking for? :D
To make you feel comfortable here is your favorite. :santa:

Cinderella

08-22-2007, 12:15 PM

gstickley, I wanted to tell you that I am very saddened that they are taking the McCoy Dam. It has been there all of my life. I remember going past it and people fishing out of it. It looked a lot better. The grass was cut and it seemed like many were fishing and enjoying themselves.

It is too bad that the government allows the streams to be polluted. I guess that must be the answer. If a stream is polluted then fill it in with dirt.

Same with them moving the acid rock. WHY?

sherrijean981

08-22-2007, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Cinderella
gstickley, I wanted to tell you that I am very saddened that they are taking the McCoy Dam. It has been there all of my life. I remember going past it and people fishing out of it. It looked a lot better. The grass was cut and it seemed like many were fishing and enjoying themselves.

It is too bad that the government allows the streams to be polluted. I guess that must be the answer. If a stream is polluted then fill it in with dirt.

Same with them moving the acid rock. WHY?

I hope when they are removing the debris that they do a thorough check of it. It sounds like they are by the what they said so I wondered if they were looking for any sign of RG?

Cloudbuster

08-23-2007, 08:19 PM

gstickley nice find!!! The article sounds almost like they are telling a story because emphasis seems to be put on not finding anything. I hope that means they are aware to look at the debrie.

All the water signals just seem to me to point somehow toward a water clue. Maybe when John Oliver said there was 3 things in the water? Maybe keys? Last night when I got online our power went out and my computer Thank God didn't blow. I don't think the power outage was a sign though. What I do think being that I was trying to get on the board when it happened reminded me of there is power in numbers of people. Perhaps there will be more power in group consious. It's like the Bible verus "Where two or more are gathered in the midst I will be.

Today our building fire alarm went off. Everyone that was home evacuated. There was firetrucks and LE everywhere. I finally went outside and joined the crowds. Once again as I watched each volunteer gear up the thought of Power in numbers began again. At any rate there was no fire thank God but it was a perfect example where the power outage had showed me what power there are in numbers.

Cinderella

08-23-2007, 08:25 PM

Great post Cloudbuster. :seeya:

Tree_of_Life

08-27-2007, 10:08 PM

During the summer of 2005 when I had just started to become interested in this case, I started seeing references to “Deer” all over the place for several weeks. I was seeing them everywhere--in my travels, my dreams, real ones along the road, signs, fake ones, pictures, etc. I could not understand how or why it was related or if it had any meaning at all. I did a lot of research into the synchronicity phenomenon, but I still didn't see how it could be related. Then one night (2 years ago still) I logged into these very forums and saw someone reference the town of White Deer, just north of Lewisburg. I was sure that was the connection. After that, the "deer" sightings stopped. Yet I still see them occasionally sometimes when I am thinking or asking questions about the case. I believe it was Cloudbuster who has said he has felt or seen a connection to this as well. I've never found anything connected to the White Deer area physically, but somehow I still feel it is related.

Also, WATER. I too have seen much related to water. Once when I was napping I asked to see where Gricar was and all I saw was looking up at the sky through water.

Cloudbuster

08-27-2007, 11:49 PM

WELCOME ABOARD Tree-of-Life!!! The White Deer is interesting!! I see deer all the time and cringe as I dodge them often. I keep trying to get over my fear of them, but Im like a magnet to them. I have a fear of hitting them and I keep finding myself close to that situation. My sister drove with me once and she asked me why I was going so slowly and I told her because the deer will be running out. She thought I was nuts but 2 of them ran out and she screamed lol. She never questions why I drive so slow now lol.

Your feeling on the White deer is different and most likely means something. I too feel the water holds a big clue.

I will share something that happened to me with this case. We had a power outage right when I was reading the board about what time Ray disappeared. The power came on and it was 11:10 and ever since that I see either 11:10 or 11:11 everywhere from clocks to tickets to websites ect. Needless to say I looked up 11:11 on the internet and it seems to be connect to sycroncity. People who see this also seem to start to experience a lot of sychronicity. I was blown away that a lot of people from all over are having this 11:11 phenomen happen to them. It's worth looking up. The only thing on 11:10 about this case I found so far is a attorneys last 4 digits of her phone number 1110. L Young. (she was the attorney who did a interview about Ray). I suppose Ledon Young is a friend of Gricars maybe. At any rate welcome aboard!!!

Cinderella

08-27-2007, 11:55 PM

I always seem to notice 111 or 1111. I don't know what it is but it is always there.

tiredoftheguff

08-28-2007, 12:00 AM

My sister says that 111 is the sign of angels! I also believe that the deer thing could be related to the fact that whomever killed Ray perhaps buried him on deer hunting land.

Cloudbuster

08-28-2007, 12:02 AM

Hi Cind! Type in 11:11 in your keywords and read them articles. When you read them all it still seems to be connected with synchroncity. These occurences become very rapid and that they are lol. I got up today looked at the clock and it was 9:11 am and tonight we was out and I had this strange urge to look at the clock and it was 9:11 pm lol. It just keeps blowing me away. I just wish I could figure it all out.

Cinderella

08-28-2007, 12:08 AM

I am dealing with a situation now that two people, not having anything to do with the Ray Gricar case, are lying to me. It involved the purchase of my pugs. I did find out some truth that the people that are lying don't know that I know. I would rather immediatley believe that someone is telling me the truth than lying. That is the way that I base my life. When I told my son, he just laughed at me and asked me what generation I am living in.
I don't like to think that people will outright lie and deceive you.
I still want people to be the way they are meant to be. Did someone lie to Ray. Was Ray helping someone out money wise and expecting that it would be paid back. Ray might have trusted the person and didn't write up an agreement. I wonder if he ever loaned anyone money and later went to collect it, since he was retiring and the person didn't have it. The Bible states that money is the root of all evil. Did he loan money to PF or her brother? Did he loan money to any of his nephews? Did he give money to anyone that was going to invest it for him? I would love to know what he was doing in Huntingdon. Did he have a life insurance policty there that he wanted to change? Did he have a banking account there? :confused:

If someone murdered Ray, I hope that he haunts them for the rest of their life or at least until they confess. Then again, you never know. Just because he hasn't showed up doesn't mean that he is dead. Maybe he is alive and waiting to see what someone is going to do. If someone murdered Ray, wouldn't they be scared if he showed up again. Thinks do happen. :chicken:

Cloudbuster

08-28-2007, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by tiredoftheguff
My sister says that 111 is the sign of angels! I also believe that the deer thing could be related to the fact that whomever killed Ray perhaps buried him on deer hunting land.

Hi tiredoftheguff!!! Your sister sounds like a person full of wisdom! She probably see's things others don't see. My camp is a deer hunting land and I've searched and searched and found nothing but a open grave plot. I was told by a psychic from Ohio that it is connected to the RG case. I can't seem to see how it is unless someone intended to put someone in it. The timing of finding it is also within the time that someone would do that.:(

Cinderella

08-28-2007, 12:12 AM

Cinderella

08-28-2007, 12:14 AM

Politigal was speaking of PF's brother having a camp on Ridge Road in Moshannon. Talk about deer or other animals. Take a drive on the Ridge Road and you will see many deer.

Cinderella

08-28-2007, 12:17 AM

Once I asked a question on a discussion site. I said does anyone know where Ray Gricar is. Someone answered me. I forget almost completely what is answer was, but it was Spring Grove.
Does anyone know anything about Spring Grove and possibly why Ray would be there?

Cloudbuster

08-28-2007, 12:19 AM

Cind talk about sychroncity lol. Last night I was looking at a site on Bellefonte and interestingly the Omega bank in Bellefonte is headquatered in Hundington?? You brought up hundington and that brought me back to last nights link lol.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Bellefonte-Pennsylvania.html
Omega Bank: Zion Road Branch at 205 Park Place, Ste. 6, branch established on 2001-04-16; Bellefonte Branch at 137 North Allegheny Street, branch established on 1961-02-15. Info updated 2006-07-10: Bank assets: $1,790.5 mil, Deposits: $1,332.4 mil, headquarters in Huntingdon, PA, positive income, Commercial Lending Specialization, 71 total offices, Holding Company: Omega Financial Corporation

Cloudbuster

08-28-2007, 12:20 AM

Hey wasn't the reward money placed in Omega bank?????

Cloudbuster

08-28-2007, 12:24 AM

If Ray was seen Thursday in Hundington then maybe he went to the Main branch Omega Bank???? Was he getting money for someone? Or himself?

Tree_of_Life

08-28-2007, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by logicworks

The day I read that RG was missing, was Sunday, April 17th.
I called my mom that evening to talk. She lives many miles away.

The first thing she said was she saw the strangest thing before I called. She said it looked like a 'white deer'. She said it walked out of the corner of the woods and ran all the way down through the yard and down through the field below.

I always look for the animal 'signs'. There was only one 'white deer' appearance before the horse photos started arriving. At first I thought it was related to the town, but I think the message is most likely that of the Indians.

The Indian version............
The White Deer is not a story nor legend, but a spiritual truth that has been passed from generation to generation of the Lenape people.

The White Deer, like the White Buffalo of the western First Nation tribes, is a holy spirit. The White Deer is a messenger as true as many holy stories of First Nations people.

JMO

Ahh yes, that is interesting. I never thought of it like that but that could be a possibility. Do you know of any good links or books on the Indian spiritual stuff, LW? In my many trips to the area, I never could feel a connection when I was actually in White Deer. How the deer thing started for me was by a vivid dream one night. It was right as I was falling asleep, which is strange because I usually dream most right before waking up. Anyway,

I am at my grandmother's residence in her garage, it is dark. The garage is the same as it is in real-life, not a dream variant. Right, smack in the middle of her garage floor is a large deer, just sitting there looking at me. The image startles me and I immediately awaken, pondering the meaning of what I have just seen.

Right after this dream experience is when all the deer sighting begin and it takes me a little while before I even start to make a connection with the sightings and the Gricar case. I will also say, the very first trip I made to check out Shikellamy State Park I saw 2 deer there and it was a very surreal experience. It felt like they just looked at me for a while, like a spiritual connection.

Tree_of_Life

08-28-2007, 12:34 AM

Tree_of_Life

08-28-2007, 12:48 AM

LW,

Again, I have seen a blue and white truck belonging to whoever is responsible if Ray was murdered. Just once mind you, but today I was reading about you somewhere here talking about a blue-and-white truck and I had to bring it up.....

The list of synchronicities I have experienced in this case over the past two years is astounding. Just wait 'til I start bringing up more stuff having to do with the Haunting Evidence episode :)

Coincidences or something more...????

sherrijean981

08-28-2007, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
WELCOME ABOARD Tree-of-Life!!! The White Deer is interesting!! I see deer all the time and cringe as I dodge them often. I keep trying to get over my fear of them, but Im like a magnet to them. I have a fear of hitting them and I keep finding myself close to that situation. My sister drove with me once and she asked me why I was going so slowly and I told her because the deer will be running out. She thought I was nuts but 2 of them ran out and she screamed lol. She never questions why I drive so slow now lol.

Your feeling on the White deer is different and most likely means something. I too feel the water holds a big clue.

I will share something that happened to me with this case. We had a power outage right when I was reading the board about what time Ray disappeared. The power came on and it was 11:10 and ever since that I see either 11:10 or 11:11 everywhere from clocks to tickets to websites ect. Needless to say I looked up 11:11 on the internet and it seems to be connect to sycroncity. People who see this also seem to start to experience a lot of sychronicity. I was blown away that a lot of people from all over are having this 11:11 phenomen happen to them. It's worth looking up. The only thing on 11:10 about this case I found so far is a attorneys last 4 digits of her phone number 1110. L Young. (she was the attorney who did a interview about Ray). I suppose Ledon Young is a friend of Gricars maybe. At any rate welcome aboard!!!

LeDon Young was also Joe Leathers attorney, settled on 4/17/07, probation and fees.

sherrijean981

08-28-2007, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by Cinderella
Once I asked a question on a discussion site. I said does anyone know where Ray Gricar is. Someone answered me. I forget almost completely what is answer was, but it was Spring Grove.
Does anyone know anything about Spring Grove and possibly why Ray would be there?

The only thing I know is my granddaughter and her SO were living there for a while. I believe his job is in that town, they make bricks or work with bricks. They no longer live in the town, moved to another small town near there. You can do a search of the town and see what is in the town. You can also check it on a map to see what type businesses are in the area.

Would the person who told you that be a trust worthy person and someone who would actually know RG?

Laws

08-28-2007, 02:46 AM

Where was the large hole in the ground located that was discussed on the local message board? Anybody remember?

It came to my mind when I was watching the case of the murderer Mel Ignatto, who dug the spot he dumped his victim 2 weeks prior to killing her. She was a GF who was trying to break up with him. She trusted him enough to go to one of his XGF's house who wanted to see her jewelry. He tortured, sexually assaulted & killed this beautiful young woman & then dumped her in the woods. The authorities located the body when the XGF told of the events & described the burial spot, but the jury didn't believe the telling & found the murderer Mel Ignatto Not Guilty. But years later when the actual photo's & jewelry were found in Ignatto's former home (sold to pay legal expenses) the DA successfully prosecuted him for Perjury as the murderer took the stand & lied to the jury & they believed him. He received an 8 year sentence for the Perjury charge & now walks amongst us declaring himself to be "born again", aren't they all?

sherrijean981

08-28-2007, 03:16 AM

Originally posted by Laws
Where was the large hole in the ground located that was discussed on the local message board? Anybody remember?

It came to my mind when I was watching the case of the murderer Mel Ignatto, who dug the spot he dumped his victim 2 weeks prior to killing her. She was a GF who was trying to break up with him. She trusted him enough to go to one of his XGF's house who wanted to see her jewelry. He tortured, sexually assaulted & killed this beautiful young woman & then dumped her in the woods. The authorities located the body when the XGF told of the events & described the burial spot, but the jury didn't believe the telling & found the murderer Mel Ignatto Not Guilty. But years later when the actual photo's & jewelry were found in Ignatto's former home (sold to pay legal expenses) the DA successfully prosecuted him for Perjury as the murderer took the stand & lied to the jury & they believed him. He received an 8 year sentence for the Perjury charge & now walks amongst us declaring himself to be "born again", aren't they all?

Cloudbuster has it on her camp property somewhere in Clinton County.

UndertheRadar

08-28-2007, 12:11 PM

Anyone who likes to watch crime shows on television would have been familiar with the Mel Ignatow case. Court TV frequently repeated a segment on it (might have been a Forensic Files piece) and I think one of the MSNBC documentaries covered it as well.

The full moon in April 2005 was on the 24th.

Cinderella

08-28-2007, 02:37 PM

Several years ago, I asked a professor in Astronomy if he thought that full moon somehow affected people. His response was NO.
I have to say that I beg to differ with him. Having worked in nursing homes full moons do somehow affect people. Just ask any hospital or EMT and they will also agree that when it is a full moon many people act out.

Cinderella

08-28-2007, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by sherrijean981

The only thing I know is my granddaughter and her SO were living there for a while. I believe his job is in that town, they make bricks or work with bricks. They no longer live in the town, moved to another small town near there. You can do a search of the town and see what is in the town. You can also check it on a map to see what type businesses are in the area.

Would the person who told you that be a trust worthy person and someone who would actually know RG?

SherriJean,

I must say after reading your post answering my question, the poster barebrick comes to my mind.

tiredoftheguff

08-28-2007, 07:36 PM

Yes Cind...my mind as well! Did you ever find Barebricks posts?? I had no luck even after emailing Coldwater. They must be online somewhere. What is the name of that town with the bricks? Is it Sugar Grove??

Laws

08-28-2007, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

Interesting. The Mel Ignatow case, which I hadn't read about before, certainly could have given a 'copycat' studying 'how it's done' some pre-planning ideas.

Cloudbuster has shown me photos of the grave, and I don't think she would mind me passing along 'my take' on the description.

I would hestitate to call it anything but a grave, since the size appears to be that for a tall man over six foot.

It is not just a hole dug in the ground. It appears to have been dug as if someone took the time to actually dig straight lines on the sides, taking the time to cut out tree roots to achieve a certain depth.

It doesn't appear it could have been a hurry up job. It looks like someone put some time into preparation. I told Cloudbuster it looked like either the work of a woman or a young person, maybe teen, given money to dig a hole after given instruction of how big and deep. Someone who thought no one would be around that camp site, thus someone who knew the owners hadn't been around for awhile.

Digging on private property indicates someone feeling secure enough with that location to go there and dig. Doubtful anyone is going to do so at night. Anyone know when there was a full moon in April, 2005?

Question then is, why wasn't it used? It would appear the owners came in unexpectedly that weekend and someone's plans had to be changed. Cloudbuster mentioned that after she had arrived, they had cut some brush and stacked it, so anyone returning must have noticed the difference in the scene, else why wasn't it used?

I find it doubtful there would be a hole like that dug with no plans to put something in it.
I find it doubtful that the plans were not for that weekend, since nothing ended up there prior to the owner's arrival or after, thus leaving one to surmise the plan was for that weekend and had to be altered at the last minute.

IMO, it was not a random dig. It appears to have been dug for a reason...... who it was intended for is the big question. Two things happened that weekend that we are aware of. RG disappeared, and BJL died. IMO only, it was close enough for someone to have planned to use it for either one of them. Question is who would know that area well enough to go there.
Most likely only a sportman, who traveled that area and took notice of when owners came and went.
JMO

Also recall in the wire tap between Ignatow (sp, thanks) & the XGF, he assured her not to be swayed by Investigator's, who were speaking about the property being searched, they could dig down 6 feet the entire length of the property & they would find nothing. Rotten *******. He walks around talking about believing in Jesus & smiling from ear to ear like he's the nicest guy in the world. Bet you there are those amongst the flock who "have no idea the old gentlemanly newcomer to the congregation is a sexual sadist who murdered a lovely young woman who was kind & cared about him".

Hmmmmmm, Clinton County.

Cinderella

08-28-2007, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by tiredoftheguff
Yes Cind...my mind as well! Did you ever find Barebricks posts?? I had no luck even after emailing Coldwater. They must be online somewhere. What is the name of that town with the bricks? Is it Sugar Grove??

The name of the town is Spring Grove. Cloudbuster has a printed out page of barebrick's posts.

sherrijean981

08-29-2007, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by tiredoftheguff
Yes Cind...my mind as well! Did you ever find Barebricks posts?? I had no luck even after emailing Coldwater. They must be online somewhere. What is the name of that town with the bricks? Is it Sugar Grove??

If talking about my previous post where my gdaughter was living and her SO worked it was Spring Grove, York County.

Sorry, didn't get to Cindi's post where she answered.

Cloudbuster

08-29-2007, 11:34 PM

I was thinking back to a earlier year either 2003 or 2004 that our cabin was broken into :( (the psp should have a record of it). The items that was stolen was all camping gear--my new bed thats off the ground lol, all of our lanterns and a cooler thats useless without the peripals that plug into a car lighter. Just reminded me of RG's laptop being his perpherials was not taken. The psp did no fingerdusting but told us other camps in that area had been broken into some more than once. After the psp left we noticed a blinking light on the phone answering machine and we played it. Apparently whoever broke into the cabin used the telephone. The person must have star 69ed the number back and left a message for the person that made the call. It was about not being able to come to their house because of a knife. Its way to hard to recall exact details but it appeared the person didn't want whoever broke in our cabin at their house because of their knife. Thats creepy but true. I also wonder if the person was a younger person? If memory recollection is working I think the number area code was 570 and Williamsport for some reason comes to mind. That all happened one to 2 years before RG disappeared. Whats strange is they only busted the side window to get in and all the items that they took they went out that broken window. I felt lucky in another way because they didn't destroy stuff and left microwave and small refrig and phone and other things there. What they took was more for survial in the woods --it was as if they was hiding in the woods without a place to go. Or should I say running from the law for something?? Thinking back it bugs me now lol.

Cinderella

08-30-2007, 12:12 AM

Cloudbuster, do you want a laugh? Tomorrow at 11:10. BTW, will you stop talking about a knife. :chicken:

sherrijean981

08-30-2007, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
I was thinking back to a earlier year either 2003 or 2004 that our cabin was broken into :( (the psp should have a record of it). The items that was stolen was all camping gear--my new bed thats off the ground lol, all of our lanterns and a cooler thats useless without the peripals that plug into a car lighter. Just reminded me of RG's laptop being his perpherials was not taken. The psp did no fingerdusting but told us other camps in that area had been broken into some more than once. After the psp left we noticed a blinking light on the phone answering machine and we played it. Apparently whoever broke into the cabin used the telephone. The person must have star 69ed the number back and left a message for the person that made the call. It was about not being able to come to their house because of a knife. Its way to hard to recall exact details but it appeared the person didn't want whoever broke in our cabin at their house because of their knife. Thats creepy but true. I also wonder if the person was a younger person? If memory recollection is working I think the number area code was 570 and Williamsport for some reason comes to mind. That all happened one to 2 years before RG disappeared. Whats strange is they only busted the side window to get in and all the items that they took they went out that broken window. I felt lucky in another way because they didn't destroy stuff and left microwave and small refrig and phone and other things there. What they took was more for survial in the woods --it was as if they was hiding in the woods without a place to go. Or should I say running from the law for something?? Thinking back it bugs me now lol.

Remember the site I sent about the man taking photo's of homeless people near Williamsport? He said they were using the Appalachian trails and stealing things from the shelters to survive with. Sounds like some of those might have hit your camp.

Cloudbuster

08-30-2007, 02:12 AM

Cind with a number like 11:10 you are in with 100's of angels and I know they will protect you!!!!:rose:

Sorry about the knife post!!!

Sherrij I know your going to scream but do you still have that link?:chicken:

Cinderella

08-30-2007, 02:28 AM

Cloudbuster, it is funny, they didn't even say 11:15. What is 5 minutes anyway? :chicken:

sherrijean981

08-30-2007, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Cind with a number like 11:10 you are in with 100's of angels and I know they will protect you!!!!:rose:

Sorry about the knife post!!!

Sherrij I know your going to scream but do you still have that link?:chicken:

Cindi here are some of the links to the man, Mashuga (not his real name)

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4123582

http://www.fotolog.com/mashuga/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mashuga/

http://www.pbase.com/mashuga

Cloudbuster

08-30-2007, 02:51 AM

Psychic says missing man was killed

tinyurl.com/9x6w5

Sunday, June 26, 2005

Carla Baron, the psychic profiler working on the Ray Gricar case, believes the missing 59-year-old district attorney was killed. Here is the scenario she laid out for what could have happened to him:

Gricar, who planned to retire at the end of this year, stumbled upon information of an illegal scheme that threatened the income of several people involved in a criminal network over a period of years. He got the information four to six weeks before his disappearance and planned to talk to someone in higher government.

Those in the criminal network found out that Gricar was on to them, and they were following him.

"It was too much of a danger to them and their operation," Baron said. "At the root of this is a lot of money."

The above story reminded me of S1s recent post on the Keisling stuff:shrug:

If it's a possibility then maybe the organization network runs thru the courthouse?? S1 is that possible? Ray didn't IMO of reading have many personal relationships with people but he was a private man. If he stumbled unto anything it seems more probable it would be in his work place. Thats the place he was spending most of his time and it just seems logical that that's where one would learn of such a thing? Seems so sililiar to S1's post on another thread.

speculation only

J. J. in Phila

09-09-2007, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

1) What precipitated the laptop being taken out of personal usage at home?

One thing could have been retirement, where RFG would be expected to return the county issued laptop.

3) Shortly thereafter, the SO moves out of a position held for years, and moves into a clerk position without first discussing with her SO who just happens to be her boss. The VA position is finally filled by neighbor somewhere around the beginning of March.

Likewise, "the SO," PEF was planning to retire. It does make sense to get someone into WVA position who would be experienced for the change in administration.

Both of these things are consistent with RFG planning to retire, or leave.

6) I don't know how much money was sunk into 'planning for the future together' but my guess re: mortgage, new car, new computer, would be in the neighborhood of $100K. Not a drop in the bucket by any means, and not anything one would just walk away from, if plans changed, without asking for at least a partial return.

This one seems to be way off.

I took a look at Mini prices and came up with $18-$25 K, for the 2005 models. It was listed as a 2004 model, which might have supplanted by the 2005 models (and therefore costing slightly less).

Also keep in mind that RFG was the principal driver.

A recently bought a new computer with a monitor from a fairly expensive company, with a service policy for well less than $1,500.

The mortgage may not have been paid of in this time period; it could have been as early as 2003.

8) There is something obviously wrong with RG in the two days around disappearance. He's off work, alone, without the SO, but obviously planning to be there for upcoming cases as indicated by SPM, so no indication he was the one planning his 'disappearance' but may have been possibly thinking something through.

Or, he just decided to take part two days off.

9) Why Lewisburg? Walking away taking nothing along could be a simple walk out the door. Catch a bus, a cab, go to Greyhound. Get out of town.

Way, way off, if you are looking at walkaway. Those three methods leave traceable evidence.

Walking away in this manner assumes that RFG does not want to be traced. Lewisurg may involve access to a car, purchased or a pick up.

It also provides a distance from those that a looking for him. When RFG is first reported missing, LE is looking, primarily, for the Mini. If that is left behind, they are looking for RFG.

RFG, if he walked away, would not know when PEF would call LE, and what LE's reaction would be. He could have assumed that she wouldn't call until morning and that LE wouldn't do that much until Monday. Finding the Mini at the house would give LE a place to start.

There would also be the possibility that neighbors would see a strange car in front of the house, that a local seller would come forward and say, "Oh, he bought a car from me." It becomes impossible for RFG to have bought a car out of town, and then drive both it and the Mini back to Bellefonte.

e) Union Counry connection back to Centre County.
Less questions if people know each other. Too much gets taken for granted.

Except, if there was evidence of foul play in Lewisburg, it suddenly becomes an issue for the LPD.

Pure speculation here but.....................
I think he and PF must have gone their separate ways from the park; him walking to work, her walking home, the Mini at home after trip to Huntingdon, his prints in the car from that trip.

Even your speculation fails to look at the evidence. It becomes an impossibility to have gotten the Mini from Bellefonte to Lewisburg without leaving evidence. The cell phone call is also problematic to fake.

I think his disappearing in Thursday's clothes is because he disappeared on Thursday evening.

It is not unusual for someone to wear the same jeans two days in a row, especially if he hadn't worn them the entire previous day. It would be unusual to wear a different jacket two days in row, if the weather conditions were the same. The weather was the same.

I think whatever happened, happened after he left the Courthouse, possibly somewhere on the walk home. The most likely place, IMO, is the alley in back of the Bush House considering the rest of the area is populated neighborhood and really not a place for anyone to catch anyone 'unaware'.

Because of the location of RG's office in the Courthouse, and his most likely leaving from that rear entrance, since it would be closest to his office, someone may have been able to see him when he left, and knew the path he would likely take.

There is one obvious problem; there is no alley behind the Bush House. It isn't a short cut to go behind the Bush House either.

I think the possibility does exist for the car having been towed by a local familial-owned 'connection', thus eliminating the possibility of it looking like anyone else was in the car.

Except there is no known or suggested "familial-owned 'connection'" and it would be difficult to both tow the car from Bellefonte and deposit it in Lewisburg, with attracting a lot of attention.

If the car is parked in or near the house, it is in a residential area. There seems to be homes around the parking lot in Lewisburg. Tow/flatbed trucks are very large and very noisy. Attempting to do it at night would attract attention. Daylight would attract more attention.

There would also need to be a number of people involved to do this in a short time, and you will rapidly have to involve a number of people in the disappearance. Not just one or two, but perhaps half a dozen.

All speculation, all JMO and subject to change at any given time.

The next speculation will no doubt include a conspiracy involving the CIA, Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, Freemasons, and Grey Aliens from Regulus.
:rolleyes:

day2day

09-09-2007, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila

It is not unusual for someone to wear the same jeans two days in a row, especially if he hadn't worn them the entire previous day.

I can honestly say I would never wear my jeans two days in a row. I don't believe Mr. Gricar would either! jmo

Politigal

09-09-2007, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by day2day

I can honestly say I would never wear my jeans two days in a row. I don't believe Mr. Gricar would either! jmo

http://gricar.disappearance.googlepages.com/gricardisappearance

Ray was famously fastidious about his appearance and clothing.

day2day

09-09-2007, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by Politigal

http://gricar.disappearance.googlepages.com/gricardisappearance

Ray was famously fastidious about his appearance and clothing.

Thanks pgal! I believe that! Maybe KA doesn't believe he wore the same jeans two days in a row either..:(

J. J. in Phila

09-09-2007, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by day2day

I can honestly say I would never wear my jeans two days in a row. I don't believe Mr. Gricar would either! jmo

If they are clean, and especially if I didn't wear them the entire day before, I would.

I wouldn't expect him to show up in court wearing jeans, but I wouldn't to the meeting earlier in the day either.

This is what JKA said:

It seems unlikely both that he would have attended an 8 AM Prison Board meeting that morning unshaven, and that if he had in fact done so that those who have publicly commented on seeing him there would have failed to mention something so completely out of character as his appearing unshaven at a meeting which as I recall included at least one of the county judges.

Now, on 4/15/05 he wasn't having an official, formal, meeting. This is someone who has at least given the impression that he's going for a drive in the country. Wearing the jeans that he had on part of the day before, if they were clean, is not unusual.

Serendipitous1

09-09-2007, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by day2day

I can honestly say I would never wear my jeans two days in a row. I don't believe Mr. Gricar would either! jmo I can honestly say, as a (non-lawyer) professional, I have often worn the same pair of jeans two (or more) days in a row and/or several times without laundering them in between. In my opinion, the public persona of RG should not be confused with the private man.

"Let him who has work to do recollect that the object of clothing is, first, to retain the vital heat, and secondly, in this state of society, to cover nakedness, and he may judge how much of any necessary or important work may be accomplished without adding to his wardrobe.

Kings and queens who wear a suit but once, though made by some tailor or dressmaker to their majesties, cannot know the comfort of wearing a suit that fits. They are no better than wooden horses to hang the clean clothes on.

Every day our garments become more assimilated to ourselves, receiving the impress of the wearer's character, until we hesitate to lay them aside without such delay and medical appliances and some such solemnity even as our bodies.

No man ever stood the lower in my estimation for having a patch in his clothes; yet I am sure that there is greater anxiety, commonly, to have fashionable, or at least clean and unpatched clothes, than to have a sound conscience." ~ Henry David Thoreau

day2day

09-09-2007, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
I can honestly say, as a (non-lawyer) professional, I have often worn the same pair of jeans two (or more) days in a row and/or several times without laundering them in between. In my opinion, the public persona of RG should not be confused with the private man.

"Let him who has work to do recollect that the object of clothing is, first, to retain the vital heat, and secondly, in this state of society, to cover nakedness, and he may judge how much of any necessary or important work may be accomplished without adding to his wardrobe.

Kings and queens who wear a suit but once, though made by some tailor or dressmaker to their majesties, cannot know the comfort of wearing a suit that fits. They are no better than wooden horses to hang the clean clothes on.

Every day our garments become more assimilated to ourselves, receiving the impress of the wearer's character, until we hesitate to lay them aside without such delay and medical appliances and some such solemnity even as our bodies.

No man ever stood the lower in my estimation for having a patch in his clothes; yet I am sure that there is greater anxiety, commonly, to have fashionable, or at least clean and unpatched clothes, than to have a sound conscience." ~ Henry David Thoreau

I must be the minority here....!! Cause when I take my clothes off they go straight into the laundry! (That could be why my water bill is SO high)...:D

Serendipitous1

09-09-2007, 09:48 PM

Off topic: I am back after what seemed to me to have been a very long weekend away, to find little new discussion and but one PM...which I will respond to on the boards thusly (without further explanation) -

Mysteries within mysteries, spun around the central mystery. Old posters...new posters. New websites...yet no challengers to this message board (even given its many shortcomings)...what a conundrum!

Penn State is in a VERY GOOD position to take the National Championship this year. I was just happy to see yesterday's victory on ESPN from a room in another state. You must have me confused with TG, who hopefully enjoyed the game in person and has since made a safe return to Ohio.

Who shall I be today...and tomorrow? I think I will (as always) be just who I am...a "fly in the ointment", a "monkey in the wrench"...an informed (as much as I can be), opinionated (as much as I dare be), and independent of outside influence (as much as I can recognize the same) pest...not knowing whether that will inure to the benefit of Ray Gricar or his loved ones.

Politigal

09-09-2007, 11:39 PM

In looking at Centre County court docs last night, I noticed that on 3/29/05, BJL had to relinquish his Commercial Drivers License, due to his DUI case.

http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/PublicReporting/PublicReporting.aspx?rt=1&&ct=4&dkt=16476830&arch=0&ST=9/9/2007%2010:42:45%20PM

So, more than likely, *he* wasn't driving a truck after that...unless it was at night & on back roads.

day2day

09-10-2007, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Off topic: I am back after what seemed to me to have been a very long weekend away, to find little new discussion and but one PM...which I will respond to on the boards thusly (without further explanation) -

Mysteries within mysteries, spun around the central mystery. Old posters...new posters. New websites...yet no challengers to this message board (even given its many shortcomings)...what a conundrum!

Penn State is in a VERY GOOD position to take the National Championship this year. I was just happy to see yesterday's victory on ESPN from a room in another state. You must have me confused with TG, who hopefully enjoyed the game in person and has since made a safe return to Ohio.

Who shall I be today...and tomorrow? I think I will (as always) be just who I am...a "fly in the ointment", a "monkey in the wrench"...an informed (as much as I can be), opinionated (as much as I dare be), and independent of outside influence (as much as I can recognize the same) pest...not knowing whether that will inure to the benefit of Ray Gricar or his loved ones.

I sure hope you had a "relaxing" weekend! Although my guess would be ..you spent lots of time "tipping back the bottle" IF you think PS has a good chance of winning the NC. Always remember S1, they MUST beat my BUCKEYES...and being the psychic I am-I don't see that happening AT ALL!

:santa:

As always my thoughts remain with the Gricar family ...

:seeya:

day2day

09-10-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by logicworks
Intuition..........pass on by if not interested.

Today was my usual 'travel' day, passing through the 'hot spots' to see if there was once again confirmation, and what a day it was!
It has been confirmed enough times in it's entirety to satisfy me. What anyone else thinks is completely up to them, but I am satisfied with what I have seen.

For the third time, the 'NIGHT transportation' was there at the exact same location in the first 'hotspot'. For me, there is no longer any question of what I am supposed to see. Whatever happened, involved traveling at night, Thursday or Friday.

The second was as perfect as the first, and once again, I am going to take it as complete confirmation. I was nearing the area where I first looked out over the Susquehanna and thought 'how beautiful' and immediately my car felt like it was picked up, shook, put back down and it was dead. That site is at route 220 and route 15 in Williamsport.

Today as I was approaching that area, I was thinking about my mom and dad, and was far from present for what I was soon to experience.....LOL. A truck passed me and quickly cut in front of me. Then slowed way down. I thought 'how rude', continuing follow behind, not yet fully aware of what I was seeing.

What I was seeing was a horse in the back of a trailer.....LOL.
The horse wasn't moving though, while the truck was speeding along, hitting bumps,etc. I thought what is wrong with that horse, and wondered if it had been drugged so it couldn't move while traveling.

Then the flash of insight hit, the one that 'wakes up my idling brain'........
I moved to the other lane and quickly got up along side of the truck to see if the insight was correct, and I was. The truck was BLUE AND SILVER, and the reason he slowed down was because he was following another truck, a flatbed with sides on it, vehicle visible, but barely. That truck was also painted BLUE AND SILVER, indicating they were 'traveling' together. They both went onto route 15.

Questions here......
Was BJL's truck ever scented for RG's scent?
What vehicle did BJL have at Brenda's Tavern on Saturday evening?
Was his truck being used by anyone else at anytime from Thursday evening to Saturday evening?
Familial connection to a flatbed with sides?

The original news article said BJL was found along route 220 in a car.
Who was using his truck, and where was the truck at the time?
I think that is the connection to route 220 at the other site, and the route 15 connection, IMO, is that the vehicle was taken down to Lewisburg via back way, not route 80, not route 192.

Just sharing what happened today.
I trust the answers that come to me.
I believe what I saw today to be as revealing as I believe the horse and the heart on Penn's Cave Road are, both totally connected to this case.
JMO

I also trust your "answers"! The truck questions really interest me. I would love to know more about BJL's truck and also the truck MS. PF "gave away"....

tonyGricar

09-10-2007, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by day2day
I sure hope you had a "relaxing" weekend! Although my guess would be ..you spent lots of time "tipping back the bottle" IF you think PS has a good chance of winning the NC. Always remember S1, they MUST beat my BUCKEYES...and being the psychic I am-I don't see that happening AT ALL! Day, you realize you are just jinxing the Buckeyes now, right?

Having seen PSU the first two weeks, their defense looks to be tied with OSU, and amongst the best in the country. OSU's offense has me nervous, and now the Washington game this week looks to be tougher than first thought. I'll be going to that game, so after having seen both teams in person the first 3 weeks, I'll give you a full report.

Serendipitous, the fresh Lager was, shall we say... flowing.

sherrijean981

09-10-2007, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by tonyGricar
.

Serendipitous, the fresh Lager was, shall we say... flowing.

As was traffic Friday night from Duncannon on Rt 322, where we picked up my G-grandson. It was backed up, 2 solid lanes from the Mifflintown exit west to the State College, then single lines in Centre County. Great game if traffic all weekend was a sign of who they were playing and the anticipation of a great game. Congratulations Penn State!!

Serendipitous1

09-10-2007, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by tonyGricar
<Snip>
Serendipitous, the fresh Lager was, shall we say... flowing. Oh yeah...good lager in every port (even if you have to pack it along). Maybe not exactly an "unexplained phenomenon"...but well worth extensive, protracted "research", in my opinion (slips some hooch into day's sweet tea while she is not looking).

Serendipitous1

09-10-2007, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by logicworks
<Snip>
In so far as the donated truck, I continue to research. The only thing I have been able to find thus far is a motion to transfer a motor vehicle title, on 9/30/07, Unknown filer. Same record shows it on 11/28/05 to be possibly RG's first ex-wife, same middle initial. My opinion: I had seen that case also, but (as I recall), I had concluded it was not RG's first wife. I was really hoping someone would post the text of the news article about the truck donation...as I have never seen it.

day2day

09-10-2007, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

First place I had to run to today, a bank, waiting on a receipt, a blue and silver truck pulls right in front of me and parks. On the back is a red and white vehicle, of course, smaller than a Mini, but symbolic as can be, IMO. The smaller vehicle was on a 'flat bed' of sorts behind the truck. One more confirmation for me.

In so far as the donated truck, I continue to research. The only thing I have been able to find thus far is
a motion to transfer a motor vehicle title, on 9/30/07, Unknown filer.
Same record shows it on 11/28/05 to be possibly RG's first ex-wife, same middle initial.
Court decision rendered by Judge Brown on December 20, 2005, Order granting Motion to Transfer Motor Vehicle Title.
It seems very atypical to have to go to court to transfer a title.
Don't know if it's connected to RG or not, but I find the time frame interesting.

It appears the case was decided shortly before when I saw the donation being made by the SO in the news. Only reason I think it was in the same time frame is because at the time I saw the donation, I wondered whether it was a quick decision for an end of year tax purpose.
I found the case re: title transfer of vehicle using this link....information open to the public.

http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/WebDocketSheets/OtherCriteria.aspx?mode=cp

I am not done researching it yet.
JMO

Thanks for the link. I will do a little searching myself as soon as I my littleone calms down from the day...(which I hope is REALLY soon) LOL

I am pretty sure i might be losing MY mind. Didn't we read at one point that PF donated a truck to the new prison/jail?

day2day

09-10-2007, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by tonyGricar
Day, you realize you are just jinxing the Buckeyes now, right?

Having seen PSU the first two weeks, their defense looks to be tied with OSU, and amongst the best in the country. OSU's offense has me nervous, and now the Washington game this week looks to be tougher than first thought. I'll be going to that game, so after having seen both teams in person the first 3 weeks, I'll give you a full report.

Serendipitous, the fresh Lager was, shall we say... flowing.

First..I am FAR from a jinx...as far as i have ever been told i am a "lucky charm"..:D
And you would NEVER catch ME cheerin for PS ..EVER...!!! (obviously you really don't bleed scarlett) lol
Have fun at the game..and remember to cheer for the "right" team this time, Mister!!

day2day

09-10-2007, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Oh yeah...good lager in every port (even if you have to pack it along). Maybe not exactly an "unexplained phenomenon"...but well worth extensive, protracted "research", in my opinion (slips some hooch into day's sweet tea while she is not looking).

Oh S1..your post made me smile..I have been known to BMO while on vacation (cruises specially-) I haven't ever added anything but lots of sugar to my sweet tea!!
**Adjusts my halo**

tonyGricar

09-10-2007, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by day2day
And you would NEVER catch ME cheerin for PS ..EVER...!!! (obviously you really don't bleed scarlett) lol
Have fun at the game..and remember to cheer for the "right" team this time, Mister!! Growing up a PSU fan and being a product of "The" Ohio State University can be a difficult proposition exactly one time per year, when they play each other. Hate that game... I still go to it every year, but I hate it.

day2day

09-10-2007, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by tonyGricar
Growing up a PSU fan and being a product of "The" Ohio State University can be a difficult proposition exactly one time per year, when they play each other. Hate that game... I still go to it every year, but I hate it.

I love that game...:) ..This is ONE time i don't feel sorry for you! Let me guess..you switch sides at halftime LOL!

Politigal

09-10-2007, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

The Lock Haven Express online...... I have gone back a dozen times looking for it, but it doesn't come up under search. I will take some time to go back through my notes to see if I wrote the text or noted the particulars. I have gone through 'loosely' looking but now I am really curious, so will do an indepth search of my notes, not an easy task.

Would you mind sharing how you were able to conclude the woman in the Title Transfer case was not RG's first wife?
JMO

I looked at other states where it was necessary to do this to get a title to the vehicle and this document spells out the reasons:

http://www.mncourts.gov/documents/2/Public/Civil/Findings_of_Fact__Order_Motor_Vehicle_Title.doc

4. The Plaintiff has been unable to obtain a certificate of title from the former owner for the following reason(s):
ƒß the Plaintiff has not been able to locate the former owner to obtain the certificate of title for the vehicle.
ƒß other:

and here's another link that explains it:

http://www.mncourts.gov/district/2/?page=1662

maybe this was why?

J. J. in Phila

09-10-2007, 10:06 PM

The only place I've seen the truck donation stories has been on the Court TV board.

I did attempt to Google it about 6-8 months ago.

day2day

09-10-2007, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
The only place I've seen the truck donation stories has been on the Court TV board.

I did attempt to Google it about 6-8 months ago.

Oh great J.J. maybe I am losing my mind!! Seriously, I think i read a list of prison donations!! I also tried "Google" ..of course I can't find it NOW :(

UndertheRadar

09-10-2007, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by day2day

Oh great J.J. maybe I am losing my mind!! Seriously, I think i read a list of prison donations!! I also tried "Google" ..of course I can't find it NOW :(

I don't think you're losing your mind, Day.

I distinctly remember several posters saying they had read the article.

Unfortunately, The Lock Haven Express has only a 14-day archive.

Same with the Williamsport Sun Gazette, which I also tried, just in case.

J. J. in Phila

09-10-2007, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by day2day

Oh great J.J. maybe I am losing my mind!! Seriously, I think i read a list of prison donations!! I also tried "Google" ..of course I can't find it NOW :(

I've heard it mentioned, but no source. Then again, I wasn't posting here.

I would have to ask the relevance.

Politigal

09-10-2007, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila

I've heard it mentioned, but no source. Then again, I wasn't posting here.

I would have to ask the relevance.

another vehicle owned/possibly driven by RG or PF might have some relevance

Serendipitous1

09-11-2007, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by logicworks

The Lock Haven Express online...... I have gone back a dozen times looking for it, but it doesn't come up under search. I will take some time to go back through my notes to see if I wrote the text or noted the particulars. I have gone through 'loosely' looking but now I am really curious, so will do an indepth search of my notes, not an easy task.

Would you mind sharing how you were able to conclude the woman in the Title Transfer case was not RG's first wife?
JMO I guess I cannot be certain. But in checking the MDJ Dockets for Ferguson Township, I found 2 bad check cases in 2003 against a BLG, now 35, from State College. With 2 people of the same name living in close proximity and no further information readily available online, I had dropped the pursuit of the vehicle transfer case. That, and I could not understand why RG's first wife might have had vehicle title problems 13+ years after the divorce. MOO

sherrijean981

09-11-2007, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila

I've heard it mentioned, but no source. Then again, I wasn't posting here.

I would have to ask the relevance.

I saw the item mentioned, on the forum after I started reading and posting. This is exactly why threads should not be removed from the forums. JMO

tiredoftheguff

09-11-2007, 11:39 AM

I remember reading about it way back. It must have been in the Centre Daily Times because I have not looked up and read on any other newspaper.
When I awoke this morning I had been dreaming that we solved this case and that Ray was found alive and well!!!!!!!!! In my dream I was in his home and someone had set the side door on fire. It was just a small fire that was not spreading. Ray had put some type of security thing on it that I had never seen before. The next thing I know I am speaking at a press conference and Ray is there and very happy!! All just a dream but I would give anything if it were true!!
Don't ask me why I care so much about a man that I never met because I am not sure. I think it is because he was such a good person and he was so kind to my family member. He also reached out to me during my darkest hour and for that I will be eternally grateful.
God Bless everyone on this board on this sad and solemn day. Let's keep working together and treating one another as we know Ray would treat us. Even if he is in heaven now I think he is thankful for our efforts and I am sure rooting for us every day!

tiredoftheguff

09-11-2007, 02:14 PM

It was a white door. Some type of metal gold type metal thing about half way up the door on the right. The fire was on the inside right on top of the metal thing. Just above where the handle would be. Ray was standing there smiling and confident that we were secure and not really concerned with the small fire. It was really odd. For the record I do not know anything about Ray and Pattys house. It is not my business so I have no idea if they even have a side door. But in my dream if you came in the front of the house the door was toward the back and on the right side of the house.

I am curious about the metal that someone had found that said Mystic Aquarium. I went there last Oct. It is in Mystic Connecticut. It was so cool and I always put a penny in the machine and it smashes it into an oval shape. It comes out very coppery colored. Does that look like a smashed penny?? I like to collect them from my travels. Goofy I know. It is a large round sort of Octagon shaped building. There are lot's of cool things to see. Perhaps the water connection. I wish we had a really great psychic like Noreen Renier, Phil Jordan, Nancy Myers or one of those guys to help out.

tiredoftheguff

09-11-2007, 02:17 PM

Wait a second. I put the penny in but it is not a penny that comes out otherwise it would not say Mystic Aquarium. I have one and will go and look at it. Geez I don't even drink either guys!!!

sherrijean981

09-11-2007, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by tiredoftheguff
Wait a second. I put the penny in but it is not a penny that comes out otherwise it would not say Mystic Aquarium. I have one and will go and look at it. Geez I don't even drink either guys!!!

I was just lookong at a catalog and thought it was that name. One is Aquarian Dreams in FL and the other is Mystic Trader from Or. You can do a web search on both be adding .com to each name.

I had been through Mystic a dozen years ago but never had the chance to look around, CT was a beautiful state.

Serendipitous1

09-11-2007, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by tiredoftheguff
Wait a second. I put the penny in but it is not a penny that comes out otherwise it would not say Mystic Aquarium. I have one and will go and look at it. Geez I don't even drink either guys!!! Have you never put a penny on a railroad track? Guess lighting up the boards with my ramblings did not excite anyone. Go figure...maybe tomorrow. And what is with Court TV, by the way. If they get anymore advertising and floating distractions on here, I will seriously need some "blocking" advice! JMOO

UndertheRadar

09-12-2007, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by logicworks

I have now found her, and it is not just a 'similar match', or 'somewhat of a match', or 'could be a match'........it is an absolute perfect match in every detail right down to the lettering the girl on the horse has her hand partially covering.

[snip]

Now, anyone can think at this point, that I have 'lost it', but my sense is that 'I have finally found it', and I will be content if LE makes a move to look at BJL one more time, and most, MOST importantly, the alibi.
JMO

Lest anyone be tempted to think that you have "lost it," Logic, I feel compelled to comment here.

The match is an absolutely perfect match in every way, and I could not agree more with your hope that LE will look at BJL one more time, focusing on the alibi.

JMO.

Tree_of_Life

09-14-2007, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by tiredoftheguff
I remember reading about it way back. It must have been in the Centre Daily Times because I have not looked up and read on any other newspaper.
When I awoke this morning I had been dreaming that we solved this case and that Ray was found alive and well!!!!!!!!! In my dream I was in his home and someone had set the side door on fire. It was just a small fire that was not spreading. Ray had put some type of security thing on it that I had never seen before. The next thing I know I am speaking at a press conference and Ray is there and very happy!! All just a dream but I would give anything if it were true!!
Don't ask me why I care so much about a man that I never met because I am not sure. I think it is because he was such a good person and he was so kind to my family member. He also reached out to me during my darkest hour and for that I will be eternally grateful.
God Bless everyone on this board on this sad and solemn day. Let's keep working together and treating one another as we know Ray would treat us. Even if he is in heaven now I think he is thankful for our efforts and I am sure rooting for us every day!

Interesting TOTG, let's hope that your dream turns out to be true. I just thought I'd mention that psi dreams and psychic experiences in general have a higher probability of being accurate when they involve FIRE or other high-energy phenomina. I reference a book called River Dreams by Dale Graff. He dedicates an entire chapter on the relationship of fire and psychic experiences. It's a great read if anyone's interested.

River Dreams by Dale Graff (http://www.amazon.com/River-Dreams-Missing-Adventures-Research/dp/1862047162/ref=ed_oe_h/102-1652066-8158530?ie=UTF8&qid=1189809043&sr=8-2)

One of my few accurate psychic premonitions involved fire. (Not related to RG though.)

tiredoftheguff

09-14-2007, 09:16 PM

Thanks guys for the compliments! I appreciate them very much! I enjoy almost everyones posts! S1 I hope you don't leave the boards. I always enjoy your posts too. I may have not responded to many or any of them. I think I feel a wee bit intimidated by you as well as some of the other posters. Obviously we have some very intelligent posters including yourself! Just keep on keeping on...please!

Cloudbuster

10-06-2007, 01:54 AM

Answers from Syncronicity (pass if uninterested)

The Diamond? This word has come unto me in many ways through sycronicity's related to this case. I have finally sat down to put them all together in format for the readers that are interested in them. I will try to make this easy to understand.

The Diamond? When this case started I ended up with 3 paranormal photographs of the dug grave. One photo is a ghost looking face with his fist up and a hat on his head. The second photo is one of the figure now in black shadow appiration with his hat still on. The third is of etheral form of white foglike appearance with faces in it. What do they mean? I think it could be a energy imprints left from the person('s) whom dug it or its your guess.??? At any rate your DA disappeared and I end up with a predug grave with paranormal images. What follows next?

The Diamond? I suddenly from no where I get a strange urge to buy a crystal. I go to the mall and they had a rock shop at the time and I pick out my first crystal with many more to proceed that one. Later in time I learn that my very first crystal was a window crystal. Window crystals are doorways. Later on I find out from a lady in Bellefonte who deals in crystals that a window crystal is USED TO LOCATE MISSING PERSONS. Funny how that was my first crystal? Who is missing? RG right? I don't know if any of you ever saw a window crystal which is HARD to come by but the window into the crystal is a D-I-A-M-O-N-D shape. Strike one for the Diamond beginning! I still didn't get it though but I knew it was sycroncity. April twenty ninth two thousand and six I purchased another window crystal. On that day I saw my first BLUE Herrin bird two times to be exact. It had a heck of a wing span. First day that color blue popped up.

The Diamond? June 16-06 I was at Lake Erie on vacation and I remember passing a building that absolutly stood out to me why was I drawn to it? We pasted it later that day again and it was right in my face. I noticed the shape of a large diamond and believe it or not the business is called D-I-A-M-O-N-D. That was another time when you know inside yourself the feeling that something is trying to tell you something but yet it's like duh Im not getting it???

The Diamond? I can not recall the date (I did write this down though) a dream state I was in and upon wakening I only remember the Black Marquise DIAMOND necklace. I looked it up and there really is such a necklace, I just never knew they come in black too. I felt lost because what could that mean? I began searching Diamond with different key words and it's amazing how that word seems to go with this case.

The Diamond? RG worked at the courthouse an area known as the D_I_A_M_O_N_D?

http://www.bellefontearts.org/Smith_pages/Smith_diamond.htm
The Diamond lies at the center of Bellefonte, surrounded, in clockwise order, by The Courthouse, the Reynolds Bank, the Brockerhoff Hotel, the IOOF Lodge, and the First National Bank Building. The Diamond is representative of the Pennsylvania Diamond, characteristic of towns in Pennsylvania and nearby areas which were settled by Pennsylvanians.

The Diamond? Now the first real crediable sighting of RG was the Wilkes Barre sighting right? Guess what Wilkes Barre is also known as the D_I_A_M_O_N_D? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkes-Barre,_Pennsylvania
Wilkes-Barre's population exploded due to the discovery of anthracite coal in the 1800s, which gave the city the nickname of "The Diamond City."????? I still didn't get it even with that syncroncity.

The DIAMOND? Last year up my camp well mediatating on this case a LONGGG black rattlesnake slithers out of the woods, I begin to scream shoot it lol. After examing it the head stood out why ? I know snakes represents a enemy but his head was black and D_I_A_M_O_N_D shaped. Yet I didn't get it?

The DIAMOND? One snake last year was bad enough but to tell you a second snake experience is really syncroncity! I come home from work last year and I couldn't get into my building , once again a snake was blocking the second door from entering. Guess what this time it was a COOPERHEAD snake? A cooperhead has a D_I_A_M_O_N_D shaped head. My so got it out with a boat oar. Once again I didn't get it. Snakes are enemies but diamond means what to this case? I swear Im thick lol.

The DIAMOND? On my dresser I stuck two packs of matches side by side in case of a power surge and they remain there currently. I felt compled to look at them frequently and suddenly it dawns on me as to why? On my right is a pack of matches that have a Diamond word right in the middle in white letters and around that is the DIAMOND shape. Inside around the word diamond is blue and tannish gold surrounds the shape. Smaller lines of diamond shapes rest inside the blue. The outside that is a square with tannish gold presented again. The 2 middle points of the diamond are touching the color RED. At the bottom the word MATCHES in white lettering and blue? The left book of matches is encased in total silver color with the 2 words THUNDERBIRD motel on it. A thunderbird was a bird known well to the native americans. I wonder since we have explored colors of vechicle in this case I think the word matches actually means a match. You will need to figure that out but it's not hard.
http://www.unknown-creatures.com/thunderbirds.html
There have been reports of thunderbird sightings throughout Pennsylvania, but most of the sightings come from areas known as the Black Forest region which encompasses Clinton, Potter, Lycoming, Tioga, Cameron, and McKean counties. These areas are sparsely populated state forest and game lands. ????? Hmmm is that syncroncity at play again? I did have a indian dream about this case and Im sure you probably remember it. I think RG might be somewhere that has a Indian History considering that dream and the roots of the Thunderbird not to mention that I my so has these arrows out that have red and black feathers on them and they keep drawing my attention?http://shop.mlb.com/sm-cleveland-indians--bs-1452349.html Hmm Ray liked Cleveland Indians team funny but it seems the colors are red and black--syncroncity?

THE DIAMOND? Now I come to the biggest clue ever of the diamond and it's so simple after a wonderful person on this board took the time to help. I will divulge it only after I ask first? To be continued......

tonyGricar

10-06-2007, 04:13 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
] Hmm Ray liked Cleveland Indians team funny but it seems the colors are red and black--syncroncity?[/*]I was at the game tonight, and I can say without a doubt, and at least for the last 50 years, the Indians are navy blue and red as primary, or accent, colors. No black, save for the cleats.

Now, if you have any visions of what a plague of insects mean, I'm....yes, I'm gonna say it... all ears.

Cloudbuster

10-06-2007, 10:09 AM

Tony Im looking at the Indian logo at the left of the page and you will see what Im taling about.
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=mlb/teams/DIRECT031.htm

I don't know what you mean about a plague of insects lol?
Im beginning to feel like I should not post the info?

Serendipitous1

10-06-2007, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Tony Im looking at the Indian logo at the left of the page and you will see what Im taling about.
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=mlb/teams/DIRECT031.htm

I don't know what you mean about a plague of insects lol?
Im beginning to feel like I should not post the info? [/*]It may not exactly be an unexplained phenomenon, but swarms of Midges (Family Chironomidae) descended upon Jacobs Field in the eighth inning. Both teams were pestered by the critters, but the Yankee pitcher was apparently so "bugged" that he walked the leadoff man on 4 pitches, then threw 2 wild pitches which allowed the Indians to tie the game. The Indians went on to win in the 11th inning. MO

sherrijean981

10-06-2007, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by tonyGricar
I was at the game tonight, and I can say without a doubt, and at least for the last 50 years, the Indians are navy blue and red as primary, or accent, colors. No black, save for the cleats.

Now, if you have any visions of what a plague of insects mean, I'm....yes, I'm gonna say it... all ears. [/*]

Were you at the game where the pitcher had flying ants on him and was being sprayed while on the field? They caused him to throw wild?

I saw it on the CBS Morning Show this morning. I didn't pay attention to the teams playing, only the flying ant story and the wild pitch.

Cloudbuster

10-12-2007, 12:53 AM

The DIAMOND? Not last Christmas but the Christmas before I had a strange phenomena happen. I was at home putting up the Christmas tree and had just gotton done with the lights and attached my tree topper which is a STAR that blinks with different colors. I was just about ready to put the bulbs on which wore on the floor in a box. I heard a crash noise and turned around and I couldn't believe what had happened. One of the (BLUE Bulbs) had somehow managed to jump out of the box and crashed into my table leg. I freaked out and left the room and honestly I started to cry! It was overwhelming when you logically know that is impossible! I called my SO and wanted him to come home. I also phoned someone from the board when this happened. We discussed it and knew it was some sorta sign but what could it mean? At any rate that evening me and my SO set out to buy new bulbs in the color red because I refused to use the BLUE ones.

I want to point out that Blue balls have come up in this case as most aware are familiar with that.
THE BLUE BALL:
The Christmas bulb is BLue with a ability to move.
The BLUE BALL DOT on the laptop partically over the letter *.
The BLUE Herrin.
The vision of a BLUE round container object.
The BLUE BALL ROAD.
MR Martino who works with Keisling is from a place called BLUE BALL.
The trophy I was supposed to go and receive from a poem I wrote was a BLUE BALL crystal trophy.??????????????

THE DIAMOND: I was thinking back to something the Ohio psychic had said to me. He told me that I been seeing shooting stars alot and that something was trying to get my attention. What he said has been true since this case started. I seen shooting stars very frequently in the first year of this case. This past SEPTEMBER 07 I went up the camp and there was 3 of us and we all observed a shooting star that first night there. I took photos the next day as I usually do and I had a rather large orb show up in one of my photo's. That now makes 4 paranormal photos since this case?
The Christmas tree topper of the star represents a star and the BLUE bulb that shot out of the box is a shooting star that flew out (once again trying to get my attention). As explained to me by a wonderful interpreter the tree sparkles like a star and one shot out at me.

I cannot get into my next diamond sign due to needing it fully checked out. But it deals with a song called TWINKLE TWINKLE Little Star. All I can say at this point is the star connects with the diamond. So I will move to my next diamond sign which was this past wed.

THE DIAMOND: I was at school and had left the classroom to go potty lol and in the hall a group of students was preparing things for a stage as I tried to get thru them as they was painting and such a girl asks me to check out her sign she had just finished and I looked down and coulda crapped. It read A DIAMOND IS A GIRLS BEST FRIEND. It had sparkles of pipecleaners in purple and silver color. The sign was painted in pink. Then earlier this evening I had a email and the word DIAMOND was used in it.?

To be continued......

Cloudbuster

10-12-2007, 01:10 AM

Something else I wanted to bring up as I been searching thru different places I had wrote down some things in journals and tablets. Nothing real organized like S1 lol.

I had heard a word coming out of a sleep in 2006 and caught something that sounded like:
TallyObbrett
TalleyObbrett
Tallo OObrett
tell oObrett

anyways thats my spelling on what I heard. Im not sure which way its spelled. I noticed we have someone under that part of a screen name and Im shocked cause I haven't looked at past notes that occured in some time. I still can't figure out what that means and I don't know OObrett? Im trying to figure out what all this means and why its occurring..........

Cloudbuster

10-13-2007, 01:48 AM

TOL Cind emailed Noreen way back and she said the family has to be the contact or LE. I have seen her on TV and I agree she is fantastic!

Cloudbuster

10-20-2007, 03:32 PM

Does anyone thats closer to this case know what a Chapel may mean? Better way to ask is if there is a Chapel near any points of interest in this case?

Cloudbuster

10-20-2007, 04:43 PM

Thanks LW and Gstickley. The chapel has more than one meaning but when used the way it was you could include a songlike rhym to it. Like someone had a violentious past and something in the effect of not " being able to escape because of the violentious past. In this rhym the word 6 is used Perhaps a part of a address. I did find this though:
http://www.miltonhistory.org/St_Josephs_Catholic_Church.htm

Is this in Milton PA? The diamond on the front of the church has gotton my attention but I can't figure out if this is in Milton PA? Weirdly it used to be by railroad tracks.

sherrijean981

10-20-2007, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by gstickley
Some time ago, I believe LW was looking for a church, maybe an Amish church (chapel); I don't know where to look, but will try. [/*]

Wasn't that when we were talking about the Rt 192 area before getting to Madisonburg? She went around an accident? There is a little white church between Madisonburg and Penns Cave. I believe she was talking about an Amish woman who lived somewhere behind it, mabe a mid-wife?

Amish famlies here in Mifflin County have church in a different home every Sunday. They have groups of Amish, that travel to the home, have rows of long benches in the home and later they have a meal together. The buggies go by here very early in the morning on Sunday and come back through from 10pm - 1/2 am Monday morning. Depends on how far they travel, I guess. Some nights it is deafening with them rolling through town in a long line.

sherrijean981

10-20-2007, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Thanks LW and Gstickley. The chapel has more than one meaning but when used the way it was you could include a songlike rhym to it. Like someone had a violentious past and something in the effect of not " being able to escape because of the violentious past. In this rhym the word 6 is used Perhaps a part of a address. I did find this though:
http://www.miltonhistory.org/St_Josephs_Catholic_Church.htm

Is this in Milton PA? The diamond on the front of the church has gotton my attention but I can't figure out if this is in Milton PA? Weirdly it used to be by railroad tracks. [/*]I think it is CB. They are talking about Northumberland County, A cemetery 2 miles from Milton. A railroad track in Milton and there are definitely railroad tracks in Milton.

Didn't really wealthy have there own Chapels in the very early days? They used them for marriages, baptisms, Church services? Weren't there some in the older cemeteries too?

Cloudbuster

10-20-2007, 06:29 PM

It just got out of the tub and wanted to share what happened. Earlier today this song popped in my mind for no reason at all? After I got out of the tub I turned my radio on and the song LUCY IN THE SKY WITH DIAMONDS was on? Thats synchroncity at play in my eyes. Everything Diamond again? Anyways her is the lyrics.

Picture yourself on a boat on a river
With tangerine trees and marmalade skies
Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly
A girl with kaleidoscope eyes

Cellophane flowers of yellow and green
Towering over your head
Look for the girl with the sun in her eyes
and she's gone

Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah

Follow her down to a bridge by a fountain
Where rocking horse people eat marshmallow pies
Everyone smiles as you drift past the flowers
that grow so incredibly high

Newspaper taxies appear on the shores
Waiting to take you away
Climb in the back with your head in the clouds
and you're gone

Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah

Picture yourself in a train in a station
With plasticine porters with looking glass ties
Suddenly someone is there at the turnstile
The girl with kaleidoscope eyes

Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah

I tried to see if it has a possible meaning and the Yellow flowers stand out to me along with the woman (possible mystery woman).

Does anyone know what this song might mean?

Cloudbuster

10-21-2007, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

Just wanted to add, there are two other colors that are blended in with that boat and logo, besides the red and white. It is the blue and silver/gray, another puzzle piece I have been looking for.
Question, was it ever mentioned exactly what type of cell phone RG had? There are the longer kind, sort of shaped like the boat, and there are the flip types that fold in half, and are rather small. [/*]

LW all your colors are the same colors in the 2 match books? The word diamond being in the middle of the diamond shape. The red and white and blue and silver are on my matches and I think it means a match. Matches flip open in two parts like what your talking about with a flip cell phone?

Cloudbuster

10-26-2007, 03:04 PM

unconvential way but important. The words "I stole one" has to mean that a harddrive was stolen somewhere and those words I stole one comes first. Secondly the words "I took it out and tossed it" comes next. Wasn't there a hard drive found first not to be Ray's?
Im convinced that RG took the laptop and whatever reasons of a ruse, possibly tossed a hard drive. I hope LE kept the first one cause it could be a stolen hard drive. I believe one of the two hard drives -one is stolen. One fitted in the plan somehow. Ray was brilliant minded right? There had to be a reason for 2 hard drives. Could he have been trying to get someone to trust him? Or was he dealing with someone he knew wasn't to smart with hard drives and such? Or was he making some kind of deal to buy some time for some reason? Im also convinced someone double crossed him and lied to him.

I hope LE checked all the old laptops from the courthouse. I don't care if they have drives in them or not they still need checked. I also wonder if RG went to Huntington to get a hard drive somewhere or to learn how to take a drive out or put one in? Maybe even how to learn to copy one?

MOO

UndertheRadar

10-26-2007, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
unconvential way but important. The words "I stole one" has to mean that a harddrive was stolen somewhere and those words I stole one comes first. Secondly the words "I took it out and tossed it" comes next. Wasn't there a hard drive found first not to be Ray's?
Im convinced that RG took the laptop and whatever reasons of a ruse, possibly tossed a hard drive. I hope LE kept the first one cause it could be a stolen hard drive. I believe one of the two hard drives -one is stolen. One fitted in the plan somehow. Ray was brilliant minded right? There had to be a reason for 2 hard drives. Could he have been trying to get someone to trust him? Or was he dealing with someone he knew wasn't to smart with hard drives and such? Or was he making some kind of deal to buy some time for some reason? Im also convinced someone double crossed him and lied to him.

I hope LE checked all the old laptops from the courthouse. I don't care if they have drives in them or not they still need checked. I also wonder if RG went to Huntington to get a hard drive somewhere or to learn how to take a drive out or put one in? Maybe even how to learn to copy one?

MOO

CB, The first hard drive found was from a desk top computer:

The Bellefonte Police Department squelched rumors yesterday that the hard drive from missing District Attorney Ray Gricar's laptop was found in the Susquehanna River.

Although a hard drive was recovered from the river, forensic testing determined the device was from a desktop computer and "totally unrelated to the Gricar case," a Bellefonte police press release said.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2005/08/08-03-05tdc/08-03-05dnews-03.asp

Not sure how far that one would go as a ruse, since I assume it wouldn't take most computer geeks very long to figure out that a desktop model hard drive isn't a laptop model hard drive.

The other open question is whether the hard drive found that "matches" Ray's laptop is truly the one that belonged in Ray's laptop. Seems to be so, but LE had no way to confirm this.

Cloudbuster

10-26-2007, 07:03 PM

THX UTR!! I wish they could confirm if it was his drive. Problem is the means Im hearing this is talking about a stolen one. I have to believe what Im hearing as truth because the other things Im hearing can't be from no where. I took it out and tossed it is just to much for me to believe that its anything but paranormal. I will keep trying to understand.

Cloudbuster

10-26-2007, 11:08 PM

Unconvential disclaimer:
LW I now see why you saw the horse and a lady on it. It is starting to become clearer to me after hearing the words"How much -and again -How much" Then I hear her first name.

Ray was lured somewhere into a meeting and it wasn't hard to get him there because he would do anything for his daughters sake. I believe someone was using Laura's name as the bait to get RG to do whatever they wanted including showing up to meet. The threat was on the table.

I also wonder if someone got into Rays car that day and RG says"how much, how much"? I think they should retrace Rays accounts those last 2 weeks. Its possible no money was exchanged but only that she was the bait the lure.

LW the horse makes sense it links to Laura. The one thing that could get RG to do something or to stop something he knew. It's a ugly way to blackmail someone and is a way to have control over what they will or will NOT do.

my unconvential way of opinion.

Cloudbuster

10-27-2007, 03:06 PM

Unconvential disclaimer:
I was thinking what the words "I stole one" "I took it out and tossed it" what that could mean if it's not the hard drive the only other thing that makes sense to this is a gun. You can steal a gun and take it out and toss it. I wonder if they can recheck the evidence holding area to see if a gun turned up missing?

Then I thought maybe RG went to buy bullets in Hungtington or perhaps to practice shooting. Or really perhaps he wanted to negotiate with laptop or gun or both. Something is there I know it.

Also heard the words" murder trial" I also hear "I tried; I tried". I also hear the word" smuggle" more than once. So I think that it's possible it means RG was to do something about a murder trail or persuade someone from proceeding with the murder charge and it involves smuggling. I think that case is easy to figure out. I also hear "bye byes, thats the cost".

Politigal

10-27-2007, 06:42 PM

The old bridge foundation at Lewisburg is stone

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1446490586077934961mXZgOo

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1446489726077934961zIboAD

(part of the train bridge)

Cloudbuster

10-30-2007, 03:36 PM

Okay New words I can hear are as follows. I hope they assist someone more privay to this case. This unconvential method has not been easy so please bear with me. Keep your mind open if you can.

"_ _ _ _ _ _ told us to put off the phone call".

"I stole the KEY." "I must of lost it".
That statement is a different stole than what I previously reported on here so keep that in mind. The beginning "I stole one and I tossed "it is something totally different. This time it is the key and someone lost it. Key to what? help me compile a list if you will.?

" No one knows what time".

"plot"

"_ _ _ _ _ _ you cross."
"

"let us go back and watch Mr _ _ _ _ _ _ _."

"you lied."

"I thought".

"the deal"

"Let me explain."

Smuggles it"
"smuggles it".

"I saw".

"i tried."

"I love them so much them"

"I want you to tell them".

"you lied your all murders".

You can add these words to all the ones I heard in the prior posts i made before todays. Okay if you think Im crazy lol okay I am then lol.

sherrijean981

10-30-2007, 05:07 PM

It has been suggested to add this info to this thread:

I have been hearing questions recently as to cemetaries in Milton/Lewisburg area in reference to RG's disappearance. I find it very odd that in the fall of 2005 there was a study done and high-tec equipment used to search cemetaries in Milton. I wonder if LE had any knowledge of this investigation or were given any info from it? If not they could probably get in touch with Susquehanna University concerning any finds. JMO

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...clnk&cd=4&gl=us

A MULTI-METHOD GEOPHYSICAL APPROACH TO LOCATE UNMARKED GRAVES IN MILTON, PENNSYLVANIA
BEEM, Katherine, DIPPOLD, Angela, HORNER, Jennifer, SNADER, Tyson, and KOZLOWSKI, Andrew, Earth and Environmental Science, Susquehanna University, 514 University Ave, Selinsgrove, PA 17870, beem@susqu.edu
In fall of 2005 ground penetrating radar (GPR), electromagnetic, and resistivity methods were used at two study sites in Milton, Pennsylvania. The integrated investigation delineated multiple unmarked graves from the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth century. Ultisols were present at both locations, 0.5 to 3 meters thick, overlying the Silurian Bloomsburg formation of the Valley and Ridge Province in Central PA. The first site location is a 13 m by 20 m area located in the southeast corner of Milton Cemetery described as a "potter's field" with a relatively unknown history of burials and maintenance. The second site is a 10 m by 33.5 m area in the southwest corner of Harmony Cemetery and may contain bodies re-interred after flooding of the original cemetery in 1889. At both sites the state of the remains, burial techniques, and identities of the pre-1930's graves are unknown. The multi-method approach utilized a dipole-dipole array with an IRIS switch 48 resistivity meter, GSSI SIR-2000 GPR with a 400 MHz antenna, and both frequency and time-domain electromagnetic systems. Multiple geophysical methods allowed for measurements of several properties that allowed constraints to be placed on interpretations regarding subsurface targets. Multiple anomalies were detected in the subsurface at both locations by each instrument and the anomalies were correlated to confirm and eliminate possible burial locations using surface features including adjacent tombstones and trees. In addition, interpretations were partially constrained by control lines taken of known graves dated 1927 and 1956. The control line of the 1927 grave provided information about the type of response expected from a rough box burial while the 1956 grave provided information about the response expected from a more recent casket burial. More graves were found at the Milton Cemetery than at Harmony Cemetery where it appears few graves are located. The non-invasive multi-method geophysical approach used was successful in the determination of grave locations.

Northeastern Section–41st Annual Meeting (20–22 March 2006)
General Information for this Meeting
estions

Cloudbuster

10-30-2007, 06:23 PM

More words and songs that follow:

Someone is heard saying "WELCOME TO THE CHAPEL" proceeded by a song that I don't hear clearly and is unknown to me. I will list the words that are reconizable.

"Welcome to the Chapel"
"mary had a very violentess past"
"you cannot escape"
"6 "
"stuck into the"

The other song is the kicker, you have the Twinkle Twinkle little Star playing, with someone singing "Where.,Where, Where are you" next words cannot be understood. Amazing the DIAMOND is in the song Twinkle Twinkle little Star?

In the first song you can hear the background noises of equipment as in some kind of plant. The noises continue like a machine that is digging at the Chapel area. The 6 could be a part of the address or ROUTE. My thoughts are that the PLANT and spititual Chapel or place of burial are close by each other and would include a 6 somewhere in the address or route near it. Sherrijean your post above is very interesting!! I wonder if Harmony cementary or potters field are near any types of businesses that would make plant like machinery noises? Does that area have a 6 in it? Address-routes ect?

The key list of possibilties:
A stolen key to a plant?
A key to operate a bulldozer or Bobcat ect?
A key to a evidence room?
A key to the Bush house?
A key to the courthouse?
A key to a jeep that night to start it?
Can anyone think what one might steal a key to?

I also can hear a small amount of beautiful spiritual music and then I hear the sounds that you would hear outside in the woods and its a very peacful sound.

Other sound effects at a earlier point included loud coughing two times when the plant noises started.

I really don't like putting this out there but have done it anyway to see if someone more privy might understand something in it. I will continue to try harder.

Cloudbuster

10-30-2007, 06:56 PM

The more I think about this, it would make sense to put a body in a unmarked grave. A grave place that a added grave would not stand out.

It then makes sense that one would never take a SCENT dog to that type of area. Thats almost brilliant when you think about hiding forensics.

Would using a bulldozer or bobcat ect stand out in noise there? I don't think so. If the graves are already unmarked one more could not make things stand out or hidden back a little. You also have eliminated a possible smell.

If you had a business near there you could somewhat keep a eye on it or perhaps worked near there. Sherrij you article seems to mention about not knowing who takes care of the maintenance?

If there is no chapel near there what are those things called that you put bodies in?

Cloudbuster

10-30-2007, 07:02 PM

Here's the part in your article im talking about:

area located in the southeast corner of Milton Cemetery described as a "potter's field" with a relatively unknown history of burials and maintenance

No history most likly no records hmmmm?

LE would have a hard time with a scent dog there unless they had a uncontaminated article of RG's. Im not sure how far down a scent dog can scent?

sherrijean981

10-30-2007, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Sherrijean your post above is very interesting!! I wonder if Harmony cementary or potters field are near any types of businesses that would make plant like machinery noises? Does that area have a 6 in it? Address-routes ect?

The key list of possibilties:
A stolen key to a plant?
A key to operate a bulldozer or Bobcat ect?
A key to a evidence room?
A key to the Bush house?
A key to the courthouse?
A key to a jeep that night to start it?
Can anyone think what one might steal a key to?

[/*]

Harmony Cemetery is off Rt 642, onto Willow St.

There is a factory on Arch St, up a street in front of the Harmony Cemetery. I think it is a factoy for train parts? but not sure. There is a place called Auto Works on that street.
Check Mapquest.

The photo's of the flood in the fall of 2004, there is a link on the Susquehanna River Site thread, shows a business called Con-Agra, during that flood. Don't know where it is but to make cans of food you need metal and machines making lots of noise.

There is a Faith Chapel at White Deer Pike, White Deer, PA. I also found a site that mentioned a prison in White Deer. Wonder if it was the same place addicts went for drug therapy?

Your list could include a bank box, lock box, trunk key or car key. Storage Room.

UndertheRadar

10-30-2007, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster

LE would have a hard time with a scent dog there unless they had a uncontaminated article of RG's. Im not sure how far down a scent dog can scent?

CB, a scent dog couldn't be used to find RG at this point if we're talking about a dead body. Only a cadaver dog would be useful, and they don't scent for individual people, just for dead bodies in general, so an article of RG's wouldn't be necessary. Hope that helps.

Cloudbuster

10-30-2007, 07:36 PM

UTR THANKS!!! Then you couldn;t even use a dog. I suppose lol a meatal detector sure wouldn't work there either. The only way would be to somehow test to see which spot is most newest. There got to be another way. Maybe a geologist can do a special test? Even if one just blended in with planted grass over? I would even look for anything with newer concrete. Any type of grass thats different from the other grass? There gotta be a test for that I hope.

Cloudbuster

10-30-2007, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by sherrijean981

Harmony Cemetery is off Rt 642, onto Willow St.

There is a factory on Arch St, up a street in front of the Harmony Cemetery. I think it is a factoy for train parts? but not sure. There is a place called Auto Works on that street.
Check Mapquest.

The photo's of the flood in the fall of 2004, there is a link on the Susquehanna River Site thread, shows a business called Con-Agra, during that flood. Don't know where it is but to make cans of food you need metal and machines making lots of noise.

There is a Faith Chapel at White Deer Pike, White Deer, PA. I also found a site that mentioned a prison in White Deer. Wonder if it was the same place addicts went for drug therapy?

Your list could include a bank box, lock box, trunk key or car key. Storage Room. [/*]

THANKS SHERRIJ! So 642 is the route. I think this location might be a good place to look. It would take LE with search and Rescue personel maybe. S1 you up for this lol? Or any techincal tips? If anyone would pursue it take a metal detecter anyway. I hear the word "watch" more than once but i don't know if it just means watch as in watch someone or if Ray could have tossed his watch for a clue. I can not be sure.

sherrijean981

10-31-2007, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
The more I think about this, it would make sense to put a body in a unmarked grave. A grave place that a added grave would not stand out.

It then makes sense that one would never take a SCENT dog to that type of area. Thats almost brilliant when you think about hiding forensics.

Would using a bulldozer or bobcat ect stand out in noise there? I don't think so. If the graves are already unmarked one more could not make things stand out or hidden back a little. You also have eliminated a possible smell.

If you had a business near there you could somewhat keep a eye on it or perhaps worked near there. Sherrij you article seems to mention about not knowing who takes care of the maintenance?

If there is no chapel near there what are those things called that you put bodies in? [/*]

I believe this is part of the answer for the Lewisburg Cemetery:

Granite Columbarium Niches, Chapel Garden
Single interment, one niche space. $750.
Double interment, one niche space. $800.
Includes bronze marker w/ two names. Columbarium niche prices include bronze name marker(s) w/ birth & death year(s), opening. (2 for double). Openings after initial interment are $50 extra.

and our local one: www.juaniatamemorialpark.com has this to offer:

Mausoleums

Some of the most well known monuments in history are mausoleums, which contain concrete or stone crypts to store the caskets. Famous above-ground entombment sites include the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, the Great Pyramids, the Taj Mahal, Westminster Abbey and the Tomb of Christ.

Mausoleums offer an enduring peace of mind, preserving the memory, sanctity and integrity of your loved ones. A mausoleum crypt offers secure protection and remains clean and completely dry. The burial containers entombed do not come in contact with the earth.

Private mausoleums offer personalization and signify perseverance, prestige and community involvement. Family estate (private) mausoleums lend dignity and honor to the family name with a distinct and separate structure, reserved for private remembrance and reflection.

Cremation Memorialization

Cremated remains are often placed in an urn, which can be placed in a mausoleum niche or a wall niche called a columbarium. The urn may also be buried in a family burial space or urn garden where a marker is used to memorialize the site. A relatively new alternative to a memorial urn is a cremation garden. Within a cremation garden, there are a variety of options for memorialization.

Vaults

These are the outside containers into which the casket is placed. Burial vaults are designed to protect the casket and may be made of a variety of materials including concrete, stainless steel, galvanized steel, copper, bronze, plastic or fiberglass. A grave liner is a lightweight version of a vault which simply keeps the grave surface from sinking in. Outer burial containers are required in our cemetery.

Cloudbuster

11-01-2007, 05:02 PM

Anyone Privy to this add these words to that are in quotations""
I hope it helps!

"watch us, watch us, from the top--------- accross the road."
I don't know the blank word nut it sounds like a P as in Park, or pool, or pond I can't tell.

"let the crowds see it".

"cost to much".

"I will ----Patty too".
"I love her so much."

"------- pays to much for INSURANCE."

"Bas- - d"

"I watched them BURN it down."

"you crossed the wrong path".

All I can get out of this is it involves smuggling and insurance such as burning things down. If i was the betting type I think this is what RG stumbled unto. I now gotta stop Im getting tintinitis or ear ringing lol.

sherrijean981

11-14-2007, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by logicworks
I am bringing this over from the PB thread since it seems more appropriate under the 'unexplained'.
I don't know if any of you happened to notice this but it certainly caused me to pause for a moment. I am most fascinated by 'underlying messages' in the warp and weave of what we call reality.

It is the second to the last photo of the fatal accident, (click on more photos), the one with the man, head hung down, at a glance, prayerful. The car engine area is what really caught my eye.

http://www.howardfire.com/Call-log.html

JMO [/*]

I thought he might be saying a prayer too, but while the photo was downloading it was in larger form and you could see a rock covered with blood at his feet. He could have looking at that and saying a prayer. He has a sad look on his face.

What was interesting you on the engine? The white material, bag, or whatever it is?

sherrijean981

11-14-2007, 01:37 AM

I was trying to find info on the other fires that night. At the Alfa Fire Dept in State College there is a listing on the same date but no photo's. They were called out with other companies as a "mutual aid". One fire was in Unionville for a barn fire. Two fires were in Milesburg and the one of the church in Howard.

Cloudbuster

11-14-2007, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by logicworks

Interesting, the initials also match the owner of the house that sits next to the SOS lot where RG's vehicle was found, connecting VM to both places. Just more of my pattern for energy reading.
JMO [/*]

Logic does this house have a upper level for someone to watch from?????

sherrijean981

11-14-2007, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster

Logic does this house have a upper level for someone to watch from????? [/*]

CB, Do you still have the photo's I sent you of my trip to Lewisburg? There is a photo of the parking lot next to the house. There is a blue car sitting just to the left of the house. You can make out part of the front of the house and it is a two story at least.

Cloudbuster

11-14-2007, 01:53 AM

I wanted to put up this link because interestingly there is a Quarry called Blue Ball. The second link gives you all the quarries.
http://www.mineralmundi.com/blue-ball-quarry-10250393.htm
http://www.mineralmundi.com/pennsylvania.htm

Cloudbuster

11-14-2007, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by sherrijean981

CB, Do you still have the photo's I sent you of my trip to Lewisburg? There is a photo of the parking lot next to the house. There is a blue car sitting just to the left of the house. You can make out part of the front of the house and it is a two story at least. [/*]

I will look for the photos. The second level fits as in being watched from accross and the word top. Thanks!

Cloudbuster

11-14-2007, 02:03 AM

SJ thanks I got the photo. Is it the house closest to the car or the house facing toward the front?

Cinderella

11-14-2007, 07:32 AM

Did you see all the orbs in two of the fatal accident pictures?

sherrijean981

11-14-2007, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
SJ thanks I got the photo. Is it the house closest to the car or the house facing toward the front? [/*]

Same house. The side of the house was along the parking lot, (to the right of the blue car) had a very small patio at the side door, (beside the blue car) or at least a table w/chairs, and the front faces Water St, sidewalk in front of it and directly across from SOS. The yard/back of house, faces the alley. We were parked in front of the car, towards the back of the lot, under a tree, and I believe they had a pool in the back yard.

Cinderella

11-17-2007, 02:48 AM

Just to put this out there, is anyone else having any trouble with their heat and freezing. My furnace was supposedly fixed this morning and it is still not working. I am freezing.

I talked to my son tonight and he said that he bought a new furnace and they installed it on Wednesday and it doesn't seem to be working right either. His house is freezing also.

Just wanted to ask if this is happening to anyone else. If so, I don't know what it would mean. If Ray is deceased, could he be in a freezer or froze? Maybe it is just me and my son's problems.
Just checking.

Cloudbuster

11-19-2007, 12:46 PM

More words:

"Tell the devils I stole it".

I don't know what he stole but perhaps --drugs ect. Also don't think RG didn't get involve this one time in that drug investagation cause I believe he did this time. There seemed something else that was also involved that had something to do with Insurance and someone pays to much for it. I can't be sure so I will pray about it.

Cloudbuster

12-03-2007, 02:50 AM

TOL's photo 11 picture contains the colors discussed on the diamond parts on this thread including LW's colors. I wonder if there is a match? Syncroncity or what would you call that?

Politigal

12-05-2007, 02:44 PM

I feel silly .... as I don't believe in the supernatural, psychics, etc.

But last night I went to bed thinking about this case, and I woke up about an hour later with three key points that just kept repeating in my mind

Dirt
Glass
Ice

Then, I began to wonder .... does Patty keep a lot of potted plants?

Does RG like a lot of ice in his drinks?

I know....it must sound crazy.

sherrijean981

12-05-2007, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Politigal
I feel silly .... as I don't believe in the supernatural, psychics, etc.

But last night I went to bed thinking about this case, and I woke up about an hour later with three key points that just kept repeating in my mind

Dirt
Glass
Ice

Then, I began to wonder .... does Patty keep a lot of potted plants?

Does RG like a lot of ice in his drinks?

I know....it must sound crazy. [/*]

Do you think she buried him in the potted plants and watered him with ice water from a glass?:shrug:

Politigal

12-05-2007, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by sherrijean981

Do you think she buried him in the potted plants and watered him with ice water from a glass?:shrug: [/*]

uh yeah, that's the ticket :rolleyes:

I think he could have been holding a glass with ice in it, and she could have thrown/struck him with a pottery plant container.

He could have been ascending/descending the stairs.

whatever

sherrijean981

12-05-2007, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by Politigal

uh yeah, that's the ticket :rolleyes:

I think he could have been holding a glass with ice in it, and she could have thrown/struck him with a pottery plant container.

He could have been ascending/descending the stairs.

whatever [/*]

I'm sorry, that was just the thought that went through my head at the time. I found it funny, :)

Wouldn't the potted plant have been in the garbage, easily checked when a LE officer threw something away? Do you seriously think they didn't go in that home and look for ANYTHING?
They were in and out of the house that first week. PF was not always there and she probably gave them free reign over the place. Even RG's family was in the home. They probably questioned her about a lot of things. They probably looked around too.

So many of you hve been on the forums and have learned through all the true crime stories you read of what can be seen and found in a home. Don't you think if LE had the opportunity to check it out they would do so? I believe DZ was quite inept but I don't feel the whole force could be that way. Not all LE are corrupt.

UndertheRadar

12-05-2007, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by sherrijean981

So many of you hve been on the forums and have learned through all the true crime stories you read of what can be seen and found in a home. Don't you think if LE had the opportunity to check it out they would do so? I believe DZ was quite inept but I don't feel the whole force could be that way. Not all LE are corrupt.

I don't think anyone has **ever** suggested that BPD is corrupt, SJ. But the notion that deference was given to PF and that victim status was accorded her from the outset is indeed rather palpable.

Take a look at what's been going on in Bolingbrook, Illinois. In the case of Drew Peterson's third wife, Kathleen Savio, there had been **18** domestic incidents reported to LE before her body was found in that bathtub. I heard a man who had been a neighbor of Drew and Kathleen interviewed by GVS in a relatively brief interview. He talked about how the Illinois State Police had come to talk to him after Kathleen died, asked him a few "general" questions, left, and never contacted him again. He said three things that really struck me:

1) That he specifically pointed out to the ISP that he had grave suspicions about Drew because of things he'd seen in the relationship between Drew and Kathleen;

2) Despite that, Greta had asked him more in-depth questions than the state police did;

3) That was the last time he ever heard from them.

So here we are how many years later with Michael Baden doing another autopsy at the family's request and deeming Kathleen's death a murder while yet a fourth wife is missing?

Police can show deference to someone without being out and out corrupt.

sherrijean981

12-05-2007, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by UndertheRadar

I don't think anyone has **ever** suggested that BPD is corrupt, SJ. But the notion that deference was given to PF and that victim status was accorded her from the outset is indeed rather palpable.

Take a look at what's been going on in Bolingbrook, Illinois. In the case of Drew Peterson's third wife, Kathleen Savio, there had been **18** domestic incidents reported to LE before her body was found in that bathtub. I heard a man who had been a neighbor of Drew and Kathleen interviewed by GVS in a relatively brief interview. He talked about how the Illinois State Police had come to talk to him after Kathleen died, asked him a few "general" questions, left, and never contacted him again. He said three things that really struck me:

1) That he specifically pointed out to the ISP that he had grave suspicions about Drew because of things he'd seen in the relationship between Drew and Kathleen;

2) Despite that, Greta had asked him more in-depth questions than the state police did;

3) That was the last time he ever heard from them.

So here we are how many years later with Michael Baden doing another autopsy at the family's request and deeming Kathleen's death a murder while yet a fourth wife is missing?

Police can show deference to someone without being out and out corrupt. [/*]

But there were never any fights or abuse calls in this case. Even though I understand because of the Gino Fornicola relationship, I don't think it is the case.

UndertheRadar

12-05-2007, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by sherrijean981

But there were never any fights or abuse calls in this case. Even though I understand because of the Gino Fornicola relationship, I don't think it is the case. [/*]

No, you're missing my point. I'm not saying there was a history of domestic violence that was overlooked in the RG/PF relationship.

I am saying that like Drew Peterson, PF was someone in the community who received **deference** from LE.

And it is clear that she did. Anyone else would have been hauled in for a polygraph within the first week after RG's disappearance, not allowed to be the one to set the timetable herself for when it was taken, as happened in this case. Anyone else wouldn't have been protected by having a potentially important investigative finding (the LMW) withheld from the public when asking the public for any possible ID on the woman (the sighting described as the "first credible sighting of RG after he went missing" by DZ) could have been a key to finding what happened to RG.

As for domestic violence, there's always a first time. Sometimes, the first time is murder.

gstickley

12-05-2007, 04:36 PM

I doubt if the BPD is inept. However, I don't think the best officer was in charge of the investigation. I think there was a mindset from the beginning that RG had committed suicide or walked away. From the beginning, PF was not considered a suspect, nor was she treated like others are normally treated in investigations, by LE or by the family. To this day, she is apparently not considered a suspect by LE. I don't know of many other cases such as this that the SO/Spouse/Whatever was not at least "looked at". (Check out the other forums on CTV.) UTR noted one example of an elderly woman falling down the stairs; the accident was treated as a crime initially.

The fact that PF was never considered a suspect & the fact that information pertinent to the investigation was held back for a year so the family (PF) wouldn't be embarrassed surely indicate deference to PF, IMO. Also, the fact that nothing has been heard from PF for well over a year (no vigils/no flyers/no media attention/his birthday passed by for 2 yrs./Thanksgiving Day passed by for 3 yrs./nothing/nada/zilch, makes me wonder exactly how much of a "soul mate" RG really was.

IF there was ever any one person who had the power to "make waves" about the investigation, press, etc., it was PF. (She worked in the courthouse, worked in the same office as the current DA, was a "prominent" person in the town.) Yet . . . nothing!

And, while I'm on a roll, the chance meeting of PF by SJ & Cind. is especially strange. SJ & Cind. were known to travel the countryside, checking out sites, taking pictures, talking to people, etc. I'm not at all surprised they went past PF's house (I would have done the same thing!). When they stopped, PF talked to them. PF could have ignored them & returned to her house; she could have called the police about 2 strange women outside. But she didn't. She talked to them. Then suddenly TG apparently was contacted (why?) & the word "stalking" was attached to the chance meeting. Again . . . why?

I believe, had LE checked PF as closely as others have been/are being checked, there may not be such discussion about her. But, they didn't, & there has been in the past & will be in the future until there is a final resolution to the disappearance of Ray Gricar.

(And before we hear about the "search" of PF's house, there was a "walk-through", maybe two, not a search. I really doubt if there was blood & brain matter splattered throughout the house, holes in the wall, broken furniture, new carpeting, & all the other things some believe have to be observed for a crime to have occurred.)

JMO

UndertheRadar

12-05-2007, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by gstickley

(And before we hear about the "search" of PF's house, there was a "walk-through", maybe two, not a search. I really doubt if there was blood & brain matter splattered throughout the house, holes in the wall, broken furniture, new carpeting, & all the other things some believe have to be observed for a crime to have occurred.)

And as we all know, even an extensive search can turn up no evidence. Still doesn't mean a murder didn't occur:

Prosecutors were tightlipped about the specific circumstances of the murders throughout the trial, but Distaso told jurors Monday **he believed Peterson asphyxiated his wife** in their home before she went to bed on Dec. 23 or as she dressed on Christmas Eve morning.

He noted that such a death would leave no forensic evidence. There was none found in their home.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/peterson/110104_closings_ctv.html

Politigal

12-05-2007, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by gstickley
I doubt if the BPD is inept. However, I don't think the best officer was in charge of the investigation. I think there was a mindset from the beginning that RG had committed suicide or walked away. From the beginning, PF was not considered a suspect, nor was she treated like others are normally treated in investigations, by LE or by the family. To this day, she is apparently not considered a suspect by LE. I don't know of many other cases such as this that the SO/Spouse/Whatever was not at least "looked at". (Check out the other forums on CTV.) UTR noted one example of an elderly woman falling down the stairs; the accident was treated as a crime initially.

The fact that PF was never considered a suspect & the fact that information pertinent to the investigation was held back for a year so the family (PF) wouldn't be embarrassed surely indicate deference to PF, IMO. Also, the fact that nothing has been heard from PF for well over a year (no vigils/no flyers/no media attention/his birthday passed by for 2 yrs./Thanksgiving Day passed by for 3 yrs./nothing/nada/zilch, makes me wonder exactly how much of a "soul mate" RG really was.

IF there was ever any one person who had the power to "make waves" about the investigation, press, etc., it was PF. (She worked in the courthouse, worked in the same office as the current DA, was a "prominent" person in the town.) Yet . . . nothing!

And, while I'm on a roll, the chance meeting of PF by SJ & Cind. is especially strange. SJ & Cind. were known to travel the countryside, checking out sites, taking pictures, talking to people, etc. I'm not at all surprised they went past PF's house (I would have done the same thing!). When they stopped, PF talked to them. PF could have ignored them & returned to her house; she could have called the police about 2 strange women outside. But she didn't. She talked to them. Then suddenly TG apparently was contacted (why?) & the word "stalking" was attached to the chance meeting. Again . . . why?

I believe, had LE checked PF as closely as others have been/are being checked, there may not be such discussion about her. But, they didn't, & there has been in the past & will be in the future until there is a final resolution to the disappearance of Ray Gricar.

(And before we hear about the "search" of PF's house, there was a "walk-through", maybe two, not a search. I really doubt if there was blood & brain matter splattered throughout the house, holes in the wall, broken furniture, new carpeting, & all the other things some believe have to be observed for a crime to have occurred.)

JMO [/*]

Excellent post GS

Politigal

12-05-2007, 09:19 PM

I know now what the

dirt
glass
ice

probably meant ...when I woke up at 3am ish

dirt -- I need to clean house - it's a mess

glass - I sure wish I had a glass of water but I'm too lazy to get out of this warm bed

ice - darn my feet are cold (cuz the temps were in the 30's)

Case solved. :tongue:

Cloudbuster

12-05-2007, 11:22 PM

Pgal you might have woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning but you seem somewhat right but wrong order.
It goes:
SETUP
MACHINE
DIRT
CONCRETE add straw.

Someone long ago tried to tell those with a ear what happened but nobody listened, seems it could be. (Not this board though).
No it wasn't me either. seems someone out there does know what happened.
All I can say is RG has left signs for those willing to see. I will not dispute those signs. Im not looking at PF as a k only as one that may know more than what was said. I also think Lara holds a unknown part that could help.:)

Serendipitous1

12-06-2007, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Politigal
I know now what the

dirt
glass
ice

probably meant ...when I woke up at 3am ish

dirt -- I need to clean house - it's a mess

glass - I sure wish I had a glass of water but I'm too lazy to get out of this warm bed

ice - darn my feet are cold (cuz the temps were in the 30's)

Case solved. :tongue: [/*]Well "Blow me to Bermuda!" I bet those 30° to 40° swings by the afternoon are tough to take! The only way I can duplicate that here is to work outside all day...then go inside. MO :tongue:

sherrijean981

12-06-2007, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by UndertheRadar

No, you're missing my point. I'm not saying there was a history of domestic violence that was overlooked in the RG/PF relationship.

I am saying that like Drew Peterson, PF was someone in the community who received **deference** from LE.

And it is clear that she did. Anyone else would have been hauled in for a polygraph within the first week after RG's disappearance, not allowed to be the one to set the timetable herself for when it was taken, as happened in this case. Anyone else wouldn't have been protected by having a potentially important investigative finding (the LMW) withheld from the public when asking the public for any possible ID on the woman (the sighting described as the "first credible sighting of RG after he went missing" by DZ) could have been a key to finding what happened to RG.

As for domestic violence, there's always a first time. Sometimes, the first time is murder. [/*]

It wasn't PF's fault they didn't say anything about the LMW, that was DZ doing that. PF and LG neither one knew about it. It wasn't PF's responsibilty to set up a polygraph either. They didn't do it and to stop the gossip and talk going on around town PF ask them to give her one. She didn't have to do that either. If she hadn't asked them to give one would they ever have done one? Give her credit for asking them to do it. TG said it was a long polygraph, what were his words, grueling or something to that affect? Not sure about the words but it was supposedly a long one. And not done by BPD. So who was the one holding it up? PSP, FBI or BPD?

Politigal

12-06-2007, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Well "Blow me to Bermuda!" I bet those 30° to 40° swings by the afternoon are tough to take! The only way I can duplicate that here is to work outside all day...then go inside. MO :tongue: [/*]

Actually, it was 76 degrees today.

We have the craziest weather in TX.

UndertheRadar

12-06-2007, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by sherrijean981

It wasn't PF's fault they didn't say anything about the LMW, that was DZ doing that. PF and LG neither one knew about it. It wasn't PF's responsibilty to set up a polygraph either. They didn't do it and to stop the gossip and talk going on around town PF ask them to give her one. She didn't have to do that either. If she hadn't asked them to give one would they ever have done one? Give her credit for asking them to do it. TG said it was a long polygraph, what were his words, grueling or something to that affect? Not sure about the words but it was supposedly a long one. And not done by BPD. So who was the one holding it up? PSP, FBI or BPD? [/*]

I made comments about the way LE has handled things with regard to PF, not anything about PF specifically.

As GS wisely pointed out in one of her posts today, one part of the problem with regard to PF is that LE has not investigated her fully. Had they done so in the beginning, and NOT deferred to her and treated her victimhood as a reason to protect her from the things that an S.O. of a missing person would normally be expected to "endure," perhaps there would not be so many remaining questions at this point.

sherrijean981

12-06-2007, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by gstickley

And, while I'm on a roll, the chance meeting of PF by SJ & Cind. is especially strange. SJ & Cind. were known to travel the countryside, checking out sites, taking pictures, talking to people, etc. I'm not at all surprised they went past PF's house (I would have done the same thing!). When they stopped, PF talked to them. PF could have ignored them & returned to her house; she could have called the police about 2 strange women outside. But she didn't. She talked to them. Then suddenly TG apparently was contacted (why?) & the word "stalking" was attached to the chance meeting. Again . . . why?

JMO [/*]

We keep talking psychic abilities and why things happen, but I have always believed we were here for a purpose and everything is set on our day of birth. Tonight I was looking at a magazine and a little article popped out at me right after my hubby and I were discussing the above, why things happen when they do.

Quote" An invisible red thread connects those who are destined to meet, regardless of time, place, or circumstance. The thread may stretch or tangle, but will never break."
Ancient Chinese Belief

Cindi and I seeing PF that day was not meant to happen on our agenda. We were only going to see what the area was like, how many houses around the house, to see if neighbors could see, what the house looked like and if someone other than PF could have gotten in the house after she left for work and if a neighbor neighbors had views of the doors, etc. If we had not stopped to talk to the woman in my brother's old house we would have driven by her house because her car was in the drive, when we were leaving the woman's house we saw her coming out the door. Cindi did turn down the road and i ask her to turn around. PF was walking along the road and I asked Cindi to stop I wanted to say hello to her and let her know we were on the forum and we were praying for her, etc etc etc.

The only thing I can figure out on her calling TG was the fact she read Cinderella's post where she said she was there and talked to her. We did not give our forum names. She wouldn't have known us from Adam. But Cindi posted it on here.

She had been having problems with TG and we all knew it to an extent so when he found out that it was her he got mad. What has gone on between TG and Cindi is not all known by me, only an email he sent her. They were having problems and I think she stepped over the line by his book.

He never said I was stalking because it was the first I have ever talked to PF. I have never pm'd about her, emailed or mailed her. What I did was not stalking. It was an accidental meeting.
Now there is the story and how it happened - again.

sherrijean981

12-06-2007, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by Politigal

Actually, it was 76 degrees today.

We have the craziest weather in TX. [/*]

I wouldn't even mind 65 or 70 degrees. I try to keep the heat low to conserve energy during the day, with almost all glass in the front if the sun is out we don't need heat. Not out yesterday or today.

Cinderella

12-06-2007, 10:50 AM

Cinderella

12-06-2007, 10:56 AM

Sorry everyone, I was just trying to post the IGNORE BUTTON and I didn't know how.

Cinderella

12-09-2007, 05:56 PM

Very interesting!

Cinderella

12-09-2007, 06:07 PM

Actually there is also the same surname in Loganton. I noticed that before and I thought that was interesting also.

sherrijean981

12-12-2007, 01:05 AM

CB,
I just watched 2 "Paranormal State" shows on A&E. It was so intense, I couldn't move. They are the ones I told you recently had a conference at Penn State.

http://www.aetv.com/paranormal-state/

You need to get in touch with them!!

Cloudbuster

12-12-2007, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by sherrijean981
CB,
I just watched 2 "Paranormal State" shows on A&E. It was so intense, I couldn't move. They are the ones I told you recently had a conference at Penn State.

http://www.aetv.com/paranormal-state/

You need to get in touch with them!! [/*]

SJ thanks!! I heard the show advertised on the radio and I couldn't watch the show I have no cable at the moment and Im :flamemad: My mom wouldn't tape it for me either lol. Im checking out the link you put up thanks!:rose:

sherrijean981

12-12-2007, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster

SJ thanks!! I heard the show advertised on the radio and I couldn't watch the show I have no cable at the moment and Im :flamemad: My mom wouldn't tape it for me either lol. Im checking out the link you put up thanks!:rose: [/*]

I think you might be able to watch the shows from their site. Well, some sites let you do that. :)

Cloudbuster

01-02-2008, 11:37 PM

Wanted to show you my ghost has a voice yet muddled at times and not so muddled at times. If you can get this file to open and play its a small amount of what it says. Very small.
http://www.flipdrive.com/download.php?file_id=54623&code=930db1790699236c483bc1bb107d0fed&show

Save it if you can open it and it's saying "what started this".
I hope it opens and I can't downlaod 37:43 min of listening with 380 MB's of space. Let me know if it works?

unconvential disclaimer

sherrijean981

01-03-2008, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Wanted to show you my ghost has a voice yet muddled at times and not so muddled at times. If you can get this file to open and play its a small amount of what it says. Very small.
http://www.flipdrive.com/download.php?file_id=54623&code=930db1790699236c483bc1bb107d0fed&show

Save it if you can open it and it's saying "what started this".
I hope it opens and I can't downlaod 37:43 min of listening with 380 MB's of space. Let me know if it works?

unconvential disclaimer [/*]

YES! I got it open! What is the first thing he is saying? Maybe a name?

Can you send more to my email? I have lots of room on my computer.

J. J. in Phila

01-03-2008, 01:03 AM

Cloudbuster

01-03-2008, 01:28 AM

I am trying hard to make it so that I can share it. Now you won't have to think Im so crazy lol. He is saying "about what started this". You have to get used to how it speaks and then you really can understand. Many times its clear and other times it's muddled. Best part of this is I did not do it. I didn't even know I had it for so long. LOL and they thought MS had a strange occurance roflmao Im still boggled by it. Alot of what I put in quotes is what I was able to hear. I will keep trying. Im no tech person when it comes to this believe me so im working at it.:read:

sherrijean981

01-03-2008, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
I am trying hard to make it so that I can share it. Now you won't have to think Im so crazy lol. He is saying "about what started this". You have to get used to how it speaks and then you really can understand. Many times its clear and other times it's muddled. Best part of this is I did not do it. I didn't even know I had it for so long. LOL and they thought MS had a strange occurance roflmao Im still boggled by it. Alot of what I put in quotes is what I was able to hear. I will keep trying. Im no tech person when it comes to this believe me so im working at it.:read: [/*]

You had to have sat for hours to hear it all, over and over and over. I just listened to it about a dozen times.

Cloudbuster

01-03-2008, 01:52 AM

I sat a long time. I will try to do some more files its just so mind blowing to me and Im still trying to understand how it is or why? I really wanted to keep this to myself but whatever it is don't want me to do that. This is why I've changed my thery for about over a month now. If it's not anything then you can lol. I can respect that. You may not believe this but after I thought it was nothing I got 3 different messages on my answering machine (when I wasn't home) that have a similarity to this voice. The last one of the three was piano music? :confused: Move over MS I know how you feel lol.

sherrijean981

01-10-2008, 08:06 AM

I thought some of you might enjoy the new blog started on the CDT. Called "Boo" , it has to do with the paranormal. In fact, she will be sharing stories from Paranormal State, a group at Penn State University, that recently started a program on A&E.

http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/3609

Emily will be following along with the group and sharing their experiences. At the end she is inviting others to share their experiences with the paranormal.

CB, here is your chance to share what has been bothering you, and some of your other experiences. You prayed and here is your answer!

Good Luck!!!

day2day

01-10-2008, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Wanted to show you my ghost has a voice yet muddled at times and not so muddled at times. If you can get this file to open and play its a small amount of what it says. Very small.
http://www.flipdrive.com/download.php?file_id=54623&code=930db1790699236c483bc1bb107d0fed&show

Save it if you can open it and it's saying "what started this".
I hope it opens and I can't downlaod 37:43 min of listening with 380 MB's of space. Let me know if it works?

unconvential disclaimer [/*]

CB i can't get your link to work :(. I do think you should contact Ryan!!!

Cloudbuster

01-10-2008, 10:11 PM

SJ thanks for the link I gotta check it out.

D2D I have contacted Ryan a very long time ago and he said they are not investagating the RG case because Carla is part of their group and that she was on it. I didn't at the time have anything audio though. I don't know if it will make a difference.

The link isn't working cause I need to join it to get a link that stays. Im just under a free account right now. I can send you a personal invite to share the file if you pm me some kind of email address. Im going to look at my account to see if I have the funds to join so I can just give a link. Maybe then this case could get solved.:rose:

I will tell you this a manager of a well known store heard it and he was blown away. He thinks it can be made clearer but I would need seven hundred dollars which I don't have and the other way he too didn't find it such a good idea and can see why one would not go that way.

Cloudbuster

01-12-2008, 04:51 AM

The 2 files have links now I hope so here goes.

http://www.flipdrive.com/file/6f1e30da02ac91a74893*01ca5dc.WAV 0004

http://0www.flipdrive.com/file/1809461bf01849e8e02*5fa45397.WAV 0005

Bigtime unconvential disclaimer.

sherrijean981

01-12-2008, 10:43 AM

CB the files are not working.

Cloudbuster

01-12-2008, 08:22 PM

SJ i emailed them under customer support and wanted to know why they are not thats why I did pay more so I could share and I haven't heard anything back and you know what thats strange cause 2 times I have tried to contact support with solutions to the problem no word yet. Sometimes I wonder what is making this so difficult to do this? Maybe there is a logical reason but why won't they contact me? This is making me upset lol. I want to share. I just wonder if it's another source that doesn't want it shared hmmm?

Cloudbuster

01-13-2008, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
The 2 files have links now I hope so here goes.

http://www.flipdrive.com/file/6f1e30da02ac91a74893*01ca5dc.WAV 0004

http://0www.flipdrive.com/file/1809461bf01849e8e02*5fa45397.WAV 0005

Bigtime unconvential disclaimer. [/*]
See if this works?
http://www.flipdrive.com/file/6f1e30da02ac91a74893*01ca5dc.WAV
http://www.flipdrive.com/file/1809461bf01849e8e02*5fa45397.WAV

Its poor customer service they don't reply?

Cloudbuster

01-13-2008, 05:19 AM

Nothing with this company is working? okay started a photo album see if it works? pic 1 should be Raystown lake 2nd one is a orb sphere and third one is where RG parks and yes it faces up toward old jail. Ignore the dates cause i didn't set the right date lol.
http://www.flipdrive.com/cloudbuster/

sherrijean981

01-13-2008, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Nothing with this company is working? okay started a photo album see if it works? pic 1 should be Raystown lake 2nd one is a orb sphere and third one is where RG parks and yes it faces up toward old jail. Ignore the dates cause i didn't set the right date lol.
http://www.flipdrive.com/cloudbuster/ [/*]

Will your audio clip go in the album? Why was I able to get it and download to my documents yet you can't get it up again? Odd!

I told you on Friday I was to have my Embarq repair service come to connect my new modem and check my internet out but they never showed up. Got the modem in the mail on Friday so I will try and follow the directions and hook it up myself. If you don't hear from me again, you will know I screwed it up. :D

Cloudbuster

01-14-2008, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by sherrijean981

Will your audio clip go in the album? Why was I able to get it and download to my documents yet you can't get it up again? Odd!

I told you on Friday I was to have my Embarq repair service come to connect my new modem and check my internet out but they never showed up. Got the modem in the mail on Friday so I will try and follow the directions and hook it up myself. If you don't hear from me again, you will know I screwed it up. :D [/*]

It is odd SJ seems like im fighting against something I can't see. Today was like that ALL day. Everything I tried to do for reasons unknown to me is blocked? Seemed like everyone called today and dumped their negative energies all over me roflmao. We lost our laundry card delaying doing cloths for hours of searching. Never found it had to buy a new one. Everytime I tried to get online someone would call . even people who never call? On top of that Im getting strange calls from CA daily and I looked the number up and seen 28 pages of complaints against that number? My PC is making clicking noises where the drive is? I can't handle negative energy it seems to play havoc on my own life lol. I couldn't find my insurance bill had to use a old one lol. Someone called me and is really bugged by this case and now feels like they need to try to help. She has a connection with someone that may be able to help with something Im working on. Talk about weird. Shes now haunted by something about this case. It's unbelievable cause this person don't care about nothing much but maybe her nails lol. She also called to tell about that paranormal show which I can no longer see anyhow. I ditched the cable. More focus time. The photo album can't connect to my music files. They got paid and now they won't tell me why I can't access a direct link? Yea something is blocking this? But here is a rose for ya.:rose:

sherrijean981

01-14-2008, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster

It is odd SJ seems like im fighting against something I can't see. Today was like that ALL day. Everything I tried to do for reasons unknown to me is blocked? Seemed like everyone called today and dumped their negative energies all over me roflmao. We lost our laundry card delaying doing cloths for hours of searching. Never found it had to buy a new one. Everytime I tried to get online someone would call . even people who never call? On top of that Im getting strange calls from CA daily and I looked the number up and seen 28 pages of complaints against that number? My PC is making clicking noises where the drive is? I can't handle negative energy it seems to play havoc on my own life lol. I couldn't find my insurance bill had to use a old one lol. Someone called me and is really bugged by this case and now feels like they need to try to help. She has a connection with someone that may be able to help with something Im working on. Talk about weird. Shes now haunted by something about this case. It's unbelievable cause this person don't care about nothing much but maybe her nails lol. She also called to tell about that paranormal show which I can no longer see anyhow. I ditched the cable. More focus time. The photo album can't connect to my music files. They got paid and now they won't tell me why I can't access a direct link? Yea something is blocking this? But here is a rose for ya.:rose: [/*]

Try a bath in sea salt. Make sure to use a little olive oil to keep your skin from drying out.

Cloudbuster

01-25-2008, 03:59 AM

I wanted to share that for me not only have diamonds been a sign but also DIMES. Im constantly finding them and was looking up some info on them that I found interesting in the meanings.

meaning of a dime,
dime
Origin: 1786

A year before the Constitutional Convention determined what kind of government we wanted for the United States of America, we had already made up our mind about our money: dollars and dimes. On August 8, 1786, an ordinance of the Continental Congress called for "Mills, Cents, Dimes, Dollars," with dime explained as "the lowest silver coin, ten of which shall be equal to the dollar."

Thomas Jefferson has been credited with proposing the names for the coins of the new nation. Among them was disme, based on the French word for "tenth," dixième. He suggested that disme be pronounced as if it were spelled deem. But the s was dropped by Congress, and the adopted spelling dime suggested pronunciation in keeping with time and rime.

Since then, dimes have been dropping all over our language. In the mid-nineteenth century, dimes was often a slang word for money, and the first of the sensational dime novels was published. In the twentieth century, dime has been used as slang for ten and even one thousand dollars, as ((((well as for a ten-year prison sentence.)))) We shopped at dime stores (1931). We learned to get off the dime (to get moving, 1925; originally of dancers in a dance hall) and to drop a dime (make a call on a ten-cent pay telephone, and(((( hence to inform on someone,)))) 1966). The latter is still current, even though phone calls cost more than a dime and are more and more often made on cellular phones.

http://www.answers.com/topic/dime

Cloudbuster

01-25-2008, 04:10 AM

I atteneded a class lastnight on astrology and thought it was interesting and if Im right Ray's birthday was October 9th if Im wrong please correct me. Anyways I found these things on the Libra interesting.

The Libra Boss (Sept. 23 to Oct. 22)
Underneath the Libra supervisor's charm you may find a disciplined military mindset. This boss loves the harmony, balance and beauty of a smoothly running work team. The Libra supervisor also loves a good debate and will sometimes take an opposing position just for fun. Engage him or her in a little repartee but don't turn it into a full scale argument. Be a sounding board for his or her ideas and remember that the Libran prefers going places and doing things in pairs.

Work Pickups Libra:

Libra (Sept. 23 to Oct. 22)
How to Recognize: Librans prefer classic, timeless styles that are graceful and elegant. They're often the most fashionable people on the train or subway. The women favor feminine blouses and flirty skirts, while the men sport handsome blazers and perfectly fitting pants. This sign also enjoys light, subtle colognes that are seductive but never overpowering. Libra is a sucker for romance, and can often be found reading sentimental novels or the personal ads.

How to Seduce: Libra is that rare combination of good looks and intelligence. Ask this sign for help with your crossword puzzle -- you may even want to invent a clue like "What's a seven-letter word for 'seduction'?" to get your point across. People born under the Scales love to share and share alike -- offer to break your breakfast bar in two as a means to break the ice.

Things Not to Do at the Office Party: Libra (Sept. 23 to Oct. 22)
More than any other sign, Libra, you know how to charm the room. You'll bring the most scintillating bottle of wine, wear the classiest outfit and say all the right things to those who count. The problem is that others will hate you for it. Jealous of your seemingly perfect life or threatened by your superior skills, they will plot against you. Better to let down the façade a bit, even tell a slightly off-color joke, to show you're one of the gang!

Stress Triggers by Sign: Libra

Libra (Sept. 23 to Oct. 22)
Not being treated fairly is hugely stressful for you, Libra. You'll spend hours weighing the pros and cons of confronting someone and make yourself sick. Rather than seething in silence or overreacting defensively, respond calmly in the moment. Keep it short and sweet -- no long-winded speeches or accusations. You'll get better results once people know where you stand. An uncluttered environment will also keep you serene.

.

Cloudbuster

01-25-2008, 04:19 AM

Career Path Suggestions Best Jobs for Your Personality

Libra (September 23 - October 22)
Charming, witty and tasteful, Libras work best when dealing with the public. Members of this sign make great salespeople, provided they are moving luxury merchandise. Naturally artistic, these folks also gravitate toward jobs involving design, music, or dance. Libras are also extremely gracious and make excellent ambassadors, customer service representatives and restaurant hosts.

Managing Money by Sign Money Tips for Your Personality
Libra (September 23 - October 22)
You love the things that money can buy, Libra, but sometimes have difficulty prioritizing your spending. After all, there's no point in having a beautiful set of china if you have no food to serve on it! A professional financial adviser can be enormously helpful to you. Of course, a balance-oriented person like you will want a portfolio that is comprised equally of stocks and bonds. For purchases, ((((you'll find art, antiques and entertainment most satisfying. ))))

Bosses Libra (Sept. 23 to Oct. 22)
Justice is vital to your Libra boss. He or she will strive for fairness in both distribution of the workload and how each person is treated, regardless of gender or rank. Likewise, this boss will expect the same from you. Possessed of a keen mind and strong negotiation skills, he or she won't stand for spreading rumors or bad vibes. If you have a bone to pick with someone -- the boss included -- schedule a meeting and talk it through until justice is served.

Butter Up Your Boss by Sign :

You've buttered up the boss ... what else can you do to advance on the job? The Personal Career Advice Report helps you make the right moves.

The Libra Boss (Sept. 23 to Oct. 22)
Underneath the Libra supervisor's charm you may find a disciplined military mindset. This boss loves the harmony, balance and beauty of a smoothly running work team. The Libra supervisor also loves a ****good debate**** and will sometimes take an**** opposing position just for fun.**** Engage him or her in a little** repartee** but don't turn it into a full scale argument.

Cloudbuster

01-25-2008, 04:25 AM

Libra Characteristics and Personality Traits

Libra charcteristics and personality traits - Zodiac Sign - ruled by Venus.

Your Sun Zodiac sign may not best describe your personality features, your characteristics and general qualities that you bring to life. For many people, their Ascendant or its planetary ruler is the more obvious characteristic, or sometimes the Moon sign. Your Sun sign, rather, says more about the direction you should be moving in, to make the contribution to humanity you were born to make, and thus achieve a degree of personal fulfilment.

The goal for Libra is to witness the importance of co-operation and harmony in human life. Libra is represented by a pair of scales - the only sign to be represented by an inanimate object. This says something about the Libra objective - to be fair and balanced in everything in a detached way - it is an air sign and therefore seeks an ideal. At its best, Libra can view complex situations, maybe emotionally highly charged ones, and come to a balanced view based on a fair consideration of all the options. However, it may take a while to come off the fence! Come down in favour of one side of the scales and the other side goes up and Libra always seeks to restore balance.

Traits of a Libra:

Desires popularity
Loves art
Neat
Dresses up for the occassion
Slight perfectionist
Narcisstic
Charitable
Bossy at times
Plans ahead
Attention to detail
Loves public service

Likes..

Beauty
Gifts
Debates
Attention
Intellectual conversations
Admiration
Credit cards
Mingling
Subtle colours, textures
Haute Coutoure

Dislikes...

Noise
Confusion
Sloppiness
Ugliness
Dirt
Pressured decisions
Being rushed
Criticism

.

:read:

Cloudbuster

01-25-2008, 04:30 AM

Libra Personality Profile
This zodiac sign would make a(((( good judge, lawyer or politician.)))) Their ability to be tactful and diplomatic in all cercumstances is admirable, and a typical Libra trait. This is the one you turn to when you really need to figure out some social or workplace issue. ???

Candle light dinners, walks on the beach, soft moonlight on a summer's night. These are the things that a Libra treasures because this is one of the most romantic of the signs. You can win the heart of a Libra by doing simple things,(((( like flowers ))))and cards.

You won't find Libra sitting out all the dances that's for sure! Very easy going and likeable, you will find Libra's company a pleasure to enjoy. Even though they are outgoing, they are also suprisingly peaceful and calm of spirit.

Here are some interesting Libra facts:
Ruling planet is Venus
Blue is the primary color
Birthstone is Opal or Yellow Topaz
Libra is the seventh sign of the zodiac and is represented by the scales. Libra is the only sign that is not represented by a human or animal, but the scales signify the Libra's need for balance, order, and equality. Many astrologers view Libra as the most enviable sign because it occurs during the peak of the year when the rewards of hard work are harvested.

Libras are very easy to like because of their charming ways. They are capable of making anyone feel interesting and important. They are great listeners, but they also expect you to listen to them in return. They have great observation skills and very good perception. They strive to bond with others and Libras are at their best when in personal relationships.

Appreciators of Beauty
Because Venus, the goddess of love, rules Libras, they appreciate beauty in anything, whether it is a person, art, or music. Because Libras love and appreciate beauty, their homes are often filled with exquisite and attractive items. They enjoy owning the best money can buy and take pride in their good taste. Because of their affection for beauty, Libras make great designers, artists, and musicians.

Sensitive
Libras are very charming, but part of their charm is in their sensitivity to others. They are great at seeing and delivering what other people need to pick them up. They dislike cruelty, nastiness, and vulgarity, as they are naturally gentle and loving people. Born diplomats, they often try to settle conflicts between people as this upsets them to see clashes occur. Libras themselves try to cooperate and compromise with everyone around them to help create a tranquil atmosphere.

The sensitivity Libras possess helps them be aware of not only their position on a subject, but also that of others. This along with their listening skills and willingness to compromise makes for great relationships. Even if a Libra does fight with a mate, their charisma and kindness always helps smooth things over. Because Libra is the most empathetic of all signs, the spouse of a Libra will always feel like his or her feelings are understood.

Weaknesses
With all their caring and kind ways, it may be hard to imagine Libras as having negative aspects to their personality, but as with all other signs, they can. Libras do not handle criticism very well, which often makes them seem insecure. But one of their biggest faults is the need for admiration. They like to be the center of attention and be praised for things they do, so some may see them as self-centered.

Because a Libra values beauty so much, they may sometimes become too focused on outward beauty and forget to look deeper into a person's full character.

Because they are so understanding of other's feelings, they may be seen as indecisive or unable to make up their minds. Any sign as blessed with charm as Libras are can always be seen as flirtatious.

Parts of the Body Ruled by Libra
Lower back, buttocks, and kidneys - Libras may suffer from problems in the lumbar area and may be prone to kidney infections and kidney stones.

Famous Librans
Actors/Entertainers

Michael Douglas
Susan Sarandon
Angela Lansbury
Carrie Fisher
Matt Damon

Musicians/Singers

Sting
John Lennon
Chuck Berry
Luciano Pavarotti

Artists/Writers

T.S. Elliot
Truman Copote
E.E. Cummings
Friedrich Nietzsche

Leaders/Politicians

Mahatma Gandhi
Jesse Jackson
Margaret Thatcher
Dwight Eisenhower
Jess Helms

Libras are one of the most admired signs in the zodiac because of their kindness and compassion towards others. They make wonderful friends and great lovers who make you feel loved and appreciated.

Cinderella

01-25-2008, 04:32 AM

What are you doing still up? I am telling. Can't you call me and whisper in the phone so that your SO doesn't waken? I would like to talk to you.

BTW, My daughter is a LIBRA. She rocks.

Cloudbuster

01-25-2008, 04:35 AM

get off I will now;)

Cinderella

01-25-2008, 05:22 AM

Funny that you mention crossword puzzles. Every night when I go to bed, I do several crossword puzzles. I had my son get me a pack of them for Christmas. They are mentally challenging. It takes me a while, but I bet J. J. would zip through my books. If I ever see him, I will have to hide them as he is intelligent.

Cloudbuster

01-28-2008, 12:52 AM

go to this map:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=internal&addtohistory=&latitude=0kFzC%2buDjLoAV5lePdpd8w%3d%3d&longitude=2Xl3K1h2DqLJqN3iSLP46g%3d%3d&name=Revival%20Tabernacle&country=US&address=906%20Old%20Route%2015&city=West%20Milton&state=PA&zipcode=17886&phone=570%2d568%2d0321&spurl=0&&q=&qc=%28All%29%20Places%20Of%20Worship

click aerial in the righthand corner-
zoom into level 14 (last allowable zoom level )-
look at the perfect heart attached to a arrow-
I think this is the church TOL is talking about.
THX SJ for the map!!!

Cloudbuster

01-28-2008, 01:00 AM

I wonder if we could arrow hunting at the green grass field at the church right around the heart?

It's funny how old 15 is connnected to Tabernackle road? A church street connection and a church itself. Funny it also is listed as a wedding chapel. Funny how welocome to the chapel ends up on tape??? weird I tell ya weird. Anyone up for arrow hunting???

Tree_of_Life

01-28-2008, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
go to this map:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=internal&addtohistory=&latitude=0kFzC%2buDjLoAV5lePdpd8w%3d%3d&longitude=2Xl3K1h2DqLJqN3iSLP46g%3d%3d&name=Revival%20Tabernacle&country=US&address=906%20Old%20Route%2015&city=West%20Milton&state=PA&zipcode=17886&phone=570%2d568%2d0321&spurl=0&&q=&qc=%28All%29%20Places%20Of%20Worship

click aerial in the righthand corner-
zoom into level 14 (last allowable zoom level )-
look at the perfect heart attached to a arrow-
I think this is the church TOL is talking about.
THX SJ for the map!!! [/*]

Yes, that is the church I was referring to that is beside the warehouses pointed out by Carla Baron. For what it is worth I'll mention that I've spoken with Patrick Burns (from HE) in person and via email several times and he was quite impressed with Carla's finding of the warehouse location. I'm not quoting him but he did tell me that she described the location then led them right to it, they did not spend any time out searching the coutryside for something that looked similar.

Politigal

01-28-2008, 10:48 AM

Tree of Life, I have to ask....

What has Carla ever truly done to help solve any missing person case?

From what I've read......Nothing.

She has not provided any information whatsoever that has assisted police in solving 1 case.

tonyGricar

01-28-2008, 11:50 AM

Cinderella

01-28-2008, 03:15 PM

I heard of Carla after the Cindy Song case. When I heard that she was helping, I wondered why whoever chose her over some of the better ones. Then there is the part about Carla Baron on the Bill Keisling site.

Cinderella

01-28-2008, 04:10 PM

I have to add that I don't know how much cooperation that there was with Carla. The tv shows that I have seen with other psychics shows that the detectives were actively working with them and taking them seriously. So I am going to give Carla the benefit of the doubt. If LE was cooperating with Carla like LE is cooperating with the public, then I would have to say it isn't Carla's fault. Two sides have to work together.

Cinderella

01-28-2008, 04:15 PM

To add to the above post, my friend told me some information that may or may not pertain to Ray. I asked her if she had called LE. Her response was that they wouldn't listen anyhow. That statement says a lot. Is that what the majority of Centre County people feel? If so no wonder that there hardly any tips. I think that LE has to change their approach with the people and then if they people feel that LE is interested, they might get more answers.

Cloudbuster

01-29-2008, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by Tree_of_Life

Yes, that is the church I was referring to that is beside the warehouses pointed out by Carla Baron. For what it is worth I'll mention that I've spoken with Patrick Burns (from HE) in person and via email several times and he was quite impressed with Carla's finding of the warehouse location. I'm not quoting him but he did tell me that she described the location then led them right to it, they did not spend any time out searching the coutryside for something that looked similar. [/*]

TOL thanks for your input!!! I know not everyone is crazy about Carla but I can't dismiss that alot of what she says ended up on a VHS tape. She mentioned about RG getting into the car and that if he didn't he was threatened with harm that would come to someone he loved. Thats on the tape but in different words. This ghost entity whatever I will go with ghost speaks about being watched from the third house up top of that third house. Carla spoke about RG being watched. According to the ghostly words it speaks about I pulled over and tossed it. It speaks about when the curtain falls who all this pertains to. It spoke about that around the courthouse I know Patty thinks the horses the horses are her soul. It spoke about something it wanted lara to know. I won't say it on here though. It talked later about something being tossed from the southside. It spoke about some people and also about a INSURANCE deal. It spoke about how he struggled this to the end. It plays the machinary sounds -the church song -the Twinkle twinkle background song. Except it sings different words to the background songs. It uses my first name and specifically asks me to tell the world. I can only do that by internet. It says it tried I tried tell Lara this. So much more than that. What am I supposed to think? Someone missed him so I assume someone was near where my ghost is he said so.

I was in the hospital for almost 9 days and something bizarre even happened there to me. I went to use my bathroom for the first time in my room and closed the door and right on the back of that door read in big black magic marker the word DA and no Im not kidding I summoned the nurses to view this and ask them if it was customary for those initials to be on the backs of all their bathroom doors and they said no and they had no clue how it got there. That story can be checked out. See i even lost my 19 year job out of all this cause i was warned froma medium named Carrol that my ghost told me to back off THIS case and take care of my health and that I would be needed at a later time and that it would still leave me signs. While May 18 my body took a crap healthwise I learned since the ghost message i had diabetes for starters. May 18th 2007 my 2 lower discs ruptured and i was diagnoised with Fibromy, ect. See I didn't listen wish I had now. i went from good money to no money now Im retired diabled of course. That ghost told Carol it would be signs and symbols that lead someone to him. Everything in this life I believe is on purpose there are no accidents. If I wouldn't have lost my job I would have never played that tape cause Im too busy. My ghost knew that. I have been faithful in trying to deliver it's message the best way I know how. It has cost my alot of problems but Im still faithful. Now I truly am facing my fears. Its now or never and i think this will all work out the way it's supposed to. I wrote the A@E and we will have to see. I am not interested in anything but finding RG thats all. See if that happens then somehow I feel I won't feel something like the word haunted.

Okay lol I know what this all sounds like but I don't know what else to say to you than what I just did thats the truth.
Just my own opinion of course.

Cinderella

01-29-2008, 01:35 AM

If I didn't really know you, I would think that you were losing it, but I know better. Who knows maybe I lost it also. :chicken:

Cinderella

01-29-2008, 01:39 AM

Now there are two places that I can't go. Bald Eagle State Park and your place. Both have been taken over. :chicken:

Politigal

01-29-2008, 01:53 AM

My 21 yr old daughter believes in ghosts....

But then again...that's only after she & her girlfriends get together on Saturday night and smoke a little dope, drink a little hooch, and take pictures in the dark.

:D

Cinderella

01-29-2008, 01:59 AM

I have never seen any and I don't want to. I don't think they go near dogs, do they? My mother did use to live in a haunted house. I have experience that first hand. I never saw a ghost but I saw things happening, like the door knobs turning back and forth when no one was there. Matches lighting up on the table. Bread falling off the counter. Noises in the attic. Felt like I was pushed down the stairs.

I know J.J. will give a reason for everything that had happened. :rolleyes: How could he explain the door knobs turning?

J. J. in Phila

01-29-2008, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by Cinderella

I know J.J. will give a reason for everything that had happened. :rolleyes: How could he explain the door knobs turning?

Cind, I'll be honest with you. I have never seen a ghost. I am very skeptical of the psychic reports here and of Baron.

All that said, something happened nearly 23 years ago, that I have yet to have a logical explanation for. It is not what I saw, but what I didn't see. I won't talk about, but every time I think about, I have a desire to reach for a bottle of whiskey.

I am not willing to automatically dismiss the possibilities on some type of unexplained activities out of hand.

Cinderella

01-29-2008, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila

Cind, I'll be honest with you. I have never seen a ghost. I am very skeptical of the psychic reports here and of Baron.

All that said, something happened nearly 23 years ago, that I have yet to have a logical explanation for. It is not what I saw, but what I didn't see. I won't talk about, but every time I think about, I have a desire to reach for a bottle of whiskey.

I am not willing to automatically dismiss the possibilities on some type of unexplained activities out of hand.

[/*]WHAT THAT YOU GOT MARRIED? :biggrin:

Cloudbuster

01-29-2008, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by Cinderella
Now there are two places that I can't go. Bald Eagle State Park and your place. Both have been taken over. :chicken: [/*]
Cind you can come over and your safe it's not scary really. The only physical thingy that happened was seems my ghost hates cigerattes for it knocked it out of my hand one day and that is weird when you don't expect it. I know it don't smoke that's for sure. JJ your cool at least you had some kind of knowledge that things can happen. I think the ghost should pay you a visit lol. ;)

Cinderella

01-29-2008, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by Cinderella
WHAT THAT YOU GOT MARRIED? :biggrin: [/*]

J. J. Please forgive me, I just had to say that.

Cloudbuster

01-29-2008, 03:20 AM

A interesting story about a missing girl and TOL the church is mentioned in this article :) the girl ended up being a walk away. It is a long strange story lol.
http://www.poynter.org/content/content_view.asp?id=5591#

J. J. in Phila

01-29-2008, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Cinderella
WHAT THAT YOU GOT MARRIED? :biggrin: [/*]

No. :)

Believe me, it was far more traumatic than any marriage. ;)

day2day

01-29-2008, 12:16 PM

Marriage CAN be very traumatic!! ...

J. J. in Phila

01-29-2008, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Cloudbuster

JJ your cool at least you had some kind of knowledge that things can happen. I think the ghost should pay you a visit lol. ;) [/*]

As I've said, the only (psychological) ghost I've seen seems to be showing up with a check.

Cinderella

01-29-2008, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila

As I've said, the only (psychological) ghost I've seen seems to be showing up with a check. [/*]

The last time that I told you that it was taking money from me, send it back, I did receive a check that I was expecting. So I am going to say it again, it is taking from me, send it back.

;)

Day, I agree with you, just look at all the men killing their wife's.

J. J. Get a shot of whiskey ready, we want to hear the story. lol

J. J. in Phila

01-29-2008, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Cinderella

J. J. Get a shot of whiskey ready, we want to hear the story. lol [/*]

No, that one is one you have to look into my eyes to hear, preferably on Halloween, or at least a warm August night.

I unfortunately don't drink.

Tree_of_Life

01-29-2008, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by Politigal
Tree of Life, I have to ask....

What has Carla ever truly done to help solve any missing person case?

From what I've read......Nothing.

She has not provided any information whatsoever that has assisted police in solving 1 case. [/*]

I'm not trying to defend Carla at all. In fact, I have my own personal reasons for disliking her "work." I have not researched her history and I have no evidence that she has ever helped police solve anything.

That being said, she may very well have some kind of psychic abilities, I do not know. The ONLY reasons I put any stock in what she said about the "warehouse" location is because of my own vision on that subject that seemed to match up closely with hers (and to a lesser extent what Patrick said to me.)

The problem with calling yourself a psychic in general (especially one that goes on television with the purpose of helping unsolved cases) is that people automatically assume that everything you say will be correct and that you just "know" everything. She could be the biggest swindler on the planet for all I know, but I do think she may have got something right.

On another note, I place a lot more of respect and credibility on John Oliver from the show. He actually does have a documented history of helping police solve cases and you can research this area yourself if you doubt me. He worked in Japan on a show there with another called Joseph McMoneagle who is a well respected ex-military remote viewer. If you want any more information about that I can point you in the right direction.