Unexplained Phenomena - could it help RG?

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by puzzled
I'm Back! We had a blast! It is so good to be back home! I missed the boards and just about everyone on them! HA!
Lot's of things to do today. Must unpack and put away the bits and bobs! London was lovely!
Will be back on tonight!
JJ I would like to take you to the tower of London and...... [/*]

Puzzled Im so happy you enjoyed London!!!! Im glad your safe too!!! :rose:

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by puzzled
I'm Back! We had a blast! It is so good to be back home! I missed the boards and just about everyone on them! HA!
Lot's of things to do today. Must unpack and put away the bits and bobs! London was lovely!
Will be back on tonight!
JJ I would like to take you to the tower of London and...... [/*]

Welcome home! So glad your trip was a wonderful success for you! Look forward to hearing all about it!
I have missed you!

[puzzled]

Greetings guys and thanks so much for the warm welcome back! Our trip was fantastic! Sunday we went on a trip to Althorp which is the ancestral home of Princess Diana! I am a huge fan of hers! We went into the gift shop/book store and there stood her brother the Ninth Earl Spencer! He was signing his books and chatting with the visitors. We bought two of his books and he signed them for us and asked how we wanted them made out and where we were from. We talked with him for probably ten minutes and then we thanked him and moved on to go out back and see where Diana is laid to rest. The setting is totally beautiful, her brother was so charming and friendly, he was in jeans and a white button down sport shirt. Very casual and kind. We toured the house also and then sat in the courtyard and ate sandwiches from the cafe. It was just so awesome...a perfect day really. There were probably only about 50 people at the most there at the time. We were able to take our time viewing the Diana exhibit which includes her wedding gown and many of her gorgeous dresses! We also toured Leeds Castle, Buckingham Palace, the white cliffs of Dover, Bath, Stonehenge, Winchester, St Pauls cathedral, Westminster Abbey, the Houses of Parliament, The O2 in Greenwich for the King Tut exhibit, Harrods, Portobello Row, Notting Hill, Kensington Palace, etc.. I lost 4 pounds! Lot's of walking. My husband is the see everything and do everything kind of guy! We were up and down the river Thames so many times...oh yeah and the tower of London....very creepy. I am sure there are more things but I have a bad case of jet lag and my mind is in slow motion. It is good to be home though. I missed you guys.:D

[Firefly]

Originally posted by Firefly
[/*]But...and here's my point again...So-called legitimate avenues of investigation aren't yielding results either. Listening to wacked-out theories from wack jobs like me isn't inappropriate right now. When traditional medicine fails you, get the witch doctor. What have you got to
lose? If nothing else, a new scenario might pop out of a psychic that leads someone to look in the right place. Or a FLIR helicopter flying over the land. Or some Bigfoot hunters out digging in the ground. Or some granddad out fishing with his grandson. [/*] Any of these people has just as much possibility of generating a new lead.

Or some granddad out fishing with his grandson.

:D

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Firefly


Or some granddad out fishing with his grandson.

:D [/*]

So far, we don't even have a skeleton.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Firefly


Or some granddad out fishing with his grandson.

:D [/*]

I am thinking that if a granddad with his grandson, and going by my little ggrandson's enthusiam for bugs, bones and stones, the spot would have been marked or that little guy might even have taken the bones to LE. Or put in his own little treasure box, to take out and look at or present to company at the family picnic.

Well I would have marked the spot anyways, or had someone stand guard while I went for LE.

JJ might be psychic too. He knew which end of River Rd they were looking at. Don't remember it being said in the paper. :read:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981



JJ might be psychic too. He knew which end of River Rd they were looking at. Don't remember it being said in the paper. :read: [/*]

I used my crystal ball (and my mapping program).

[Firefly]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


JJ might be psychic too. He knew which end of River Rd they were looking at. Don't remember it being said in the paper. :read: [/*]

Be he psychic or not, it's fun messing with JJ. :D

I don't think any of us can be sure what the fisherman may or may not have found. Won't know until, and unless, the police sweep that area of the river.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Firefly


Be he psychic or not, it's fun messing with JJ. :D

I don't think any of us can be sure what the fisherman may or may not have found. Won't know until, and unless, the police sweep that area of the river. [/*]

They are, as has been reported. We see if the skeleton goes the way of the pigeon entrails.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


They are, as has been reported. We see if the skeleton goes the way of the pigeon entrails. [/*]

They are sweeping the river? When did or will they start?

Also I don't have Pete's email address to send, the one I used came back to me.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


They are sweeping the river? When did or will they start?

Also I don't have Pete's email address to send, the one I used came back to me. [/*]

They were to redo the search for the alleged skeleton (I don't know what else to call it).

[Cloudbuster]

I have had visions for sometime about something of Ray's. I never brought it up before on here, but ff talked about something of Rays that LE was holding back on. I still think because of a vision that has been going on a long time that it may be Rays watch. I still feel and think that RG slipped his watch off to be found so that it would be known that something was wrong. I still see that vision and feel that about the man. I suppose time will tell. :rose:

[Politigal]

off topic but curious

In the latest round of news on Gricar (inspired by Buehner) ---

*Why* did Patty Fornicola snub the Centre Daily Times? She commented to a couple other news outlets but refused comment to CDT.

Is she mad at Pete for his opinion that Zaccagni worshipped the ground she walked on?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal
off topic but curious

In the latest round of news on Gricar (inspired by Buehner) ---

*Why* did Patty Fornicola snub the Centre Daily Times? She commented to a couple other news outlets but refused comment to CDT.

Is she mad at Pete for his opinion that Zaccagni worshipped the ground she walked on? [/*]

Or they just didn't contact or use her comments. I don't recall which newspapers used LG's comments, but some didn't.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Or they just didn't contact or use her comments. I don't recall which newspapers used LG's comments, but some didn't. [/*]

it was reported that she declined any comment/interview to the CDT

[Politigal]

I misspoke --

Patty declined to be interviewed by the CDT for the 3 yr anniversary of Gricar's disappearance (not regarding Buehner)....but she made comments to other news outlets.

Why?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal
I misspoke --

Patty declined to be interviewed by the CDT for the 3 yr anniversary of Gricar's disappearance (not regarding Buehner)....but she made comments to other news outlets.

Why? [/*]

I just looked at the Daily Item quote:

“I haven’t given up.” She declined additional comment.

http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_106004034.html

She may believe he's still out there, as do some of his other friends. Wishful thinking? Maybe, maybe not.

I don't know if she was availibe when the CDT called, if the CDT called, if she declined to speak or if the CDT decided not to use a quote.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


I just looked at the Daily Item quote:

“I haven’t given up.” She declined additional comment.

http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_106004034.html

She may believe he's still out there, as do some of his other friends. Wishful thinking? Maybe, maybe not.

I don't know if she was availibe when the CDT called, if the CDT called, if she declined to speak or if the CDT decided not to use a quote. [/*]

I think their article has since been removed but the CDT reported that she declined to be interviewed by them.

I think she was po'd at Pete.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal


I think their article has since been removed but the CDT reported that she declined to be interviewed by them.

I think she was po'd at Pete. [/*]

Not that I know of; PB has never mentioned it. You can read the extent of her comments to the Daily Item.

I take it PEF has told you this? :D

I know that LG did not speak to some of the news outlets, but I wouldn't say she was "po'd" at anyone.

[day2day]

Originally posted by Firefly


Be he psychic or not, it's fun messing with JJ. :D

I don't think any of us can be sure what the fisherman may or may not have found. Won't know until, and unless, the police sweep that area of the river. [/*]


Oh yes you are right!~ It really is SO much fun to mess with JJ!!
Firefly-I have to admit that I am just NOW reading your posts~
Welcome to the board and ...I already have so many questions for you but don't want to seem "fool-ish" (just for you jj) :D

Going back now to read ALL of your posts..I may get up the nerve to ask my questions!!
Again thanks for joining us..
:seeya:

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


I just PMed her to check.

I though the firefly might just fly away at the suggestion. He doesn't have to "prove" anything, only to convince me of the likelihood that he is accurate.

BTW, if she agrees, I'll still do it. [/*]

just goin back through old posts....Did you offer the same test to Ms. Baron?

just thought i would ask..:D

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day


just goin back through old posts....Did you offer the same test to Ms. Baron?

just thought i would ask..:D [/*]

No, since she had come and gone before I'd showed up. She had gotten enough wrong by the the time that I started that I didn't have to.

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


No, since she had come and gone before I'd showed up. She had gotten enough wrong by the the time that I started that I didn't have to. [/*]


If you really believe that she got "enough wrong" about this case..could you explain to me why DZ kept her around for SO long? :shrug:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day



If you really believe that she got "enough wrong" about this case..could you explain to me why DZ kept her around for SO long? :shrug: [/*]

First, the family, BG, asked. Second, two days is not "SO" long. :rollseyes: I'm not even to sure, we're talking about two days. Third, do you really want to compliment DZ's judgment in this case?

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


First, the family, BG, asked. Second, two days is not "SO" long. :rollseyes: I'm not even to sure, we're talking about two days. Third, do you really want to compliment DZ's judgment in this case? [/*]

Are you saying Carla Baron only worked on this case for two days?
Funny after ALL this flippin time YOU of all people admit that BG IS family..
And i am certainly NOT complimenting DZ..haven't from dayone..and won't be into the future..

:read:

[UndertheRadar]

Originally posted by Politigal

I think their article has since been removed but the CDT reported that she declined to be interviewed by them.

I think she was po'd at Pete.

Hi Pgal,

This is from an article in the Pgh Post Gazette, written as a special assignment by Halle Stockton of the Collegian:

Ms. Fornicola, who met Mr. Gricar while she worked as an advocate for victims and witnesses, did not want to discuss him or his disappearance.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08106/873326-85.stm

So apparently PF did decline comment at the three year anniversary, but her decision not to talk to the press seems wider than targeting PB.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day


Are you saying Carla Baron only worked on this case for two days?
Funny after ALL this flippin time YOU of all people admit that BG IS family..
And i am certainly NOT complimenting DZ..haven't from dayone..and won't be into the future..

:read: [/*]

As far as has had been reported, she showed up in the summer for a day and again with the TV cameras, for the television show.

BG is obviously related to Lara, and she made the request to the family, thouse people currently related to RFG. They went along.

You were the one that said, "explain to me why DZ kept her around for SO long?" You must think that DZ used good judgment keeping her there for two days.

Baron's involvement was a side show, but added little to the case. Maybe she's better in other cases, but not this one. Maybe her Ouija Board fell into the Susquehanna and warped. Maybe the person that dealt her Tarot Cards that day also dealt Three Card Monty. Maybe when the Great Spirit set up Mt Nittany to honor the princess, He blocked all the leakage from the Ether, cutting off Baron's communication.

For whatever reason, in the RFG case, she didn't add anything to the case.

[day2day]

IMO...Detz knew five minutes into his conversation with Ms. Baron if she was onto something or full of ...(well you know).
Detz talked via phone to Ms. Baron ALOT (if not daily) after she was brought onto this case.
(or did i dream this)...

sorta like cloudbusters conversation with firefly...IF firefly would have said "sam"...their conversation would have been over.

[day2day]

UTR..
Nice to "see" you..hope you had a great summer~

[J. J. in Phila]

Good to see hear from you. That has basically been the same thing, except the quote in the Daily Item.

Here is the full passage:



His girlfriend, Patty Fornicola — the last person ever known to have spoken with Gricar — still holds out some hope for his return.

“I haven’t given up,” she said Monday. Fornicola declined any further comment, however.


http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_106004034.html

It might be telling that several people close to the case, TG, PEF, have not ruled out walkaway.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day
IMO...Detz knew five minutes into his conversation with Ms. Baron if she was onto something or full of ...(well you know).
Detz talked via phone to Ms. Baron ALOT (if not daily) after she was brought onto this case.
(or did i dream this)...



You dreamed it.

I checked the Post Gazette article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05177/528516-85.stm

The CDT article:

http://www.centredaily.com/news/ray_gricar/story/3775.html

Quote from that:



Zaccagni said police are taking the information she provides and "keeping it in the back of our mind" while they continue to investigate the case.



And the Altoona Mirror article, which TG sent me some years back.

The only thing "new" was that she said he got into a car, but the dog handlers indicated that possibility.

[day2day]

DZs own words...turn your speakers up :)
http://www.carlabaron.net/forum/WKOK.Gricar.mp3

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day
DZs own words...turn your speakers up :)
http://www.carlabaron.net/forum/WKOK.Gricar.mp3 [/*]

Baron called the police, not the other way around, according to Baron. :rolleyes: Try to understand that.

DZ asked if this was going be a new "tool" in LE. The answer has been NO.

Even there, after Baron insists that RFG is dead and buried, DZ says he is looking at MI sighting.

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Baron called the police, not the other way around, according to Baron. :rolleyes: Try to understand that.

DZ asked if this was going be a new "tool" in LE. The answer has been NO.

Even there, after Baron insists that RFG is dead and buried, DZ says he is looking at MI sighting. [/*]


No no NO you TRY to understand.....I dont give a flyin rats arse who called WHO. Fact is Detz spent VALUABLE time here talking with her. HE KNEW from day one if she was bs'ing him....

...smoke and mirrors...

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day


No no NO you TRY to understand.....I dont give a flyin rats arse who called WHO. Fact is Detz spent VALUABLE time here talking with her. HE KNEW from day one if she was bs'ing him....


He's talked to P'gal too. :rolleyes:

You do those things if you are in public service and you do it if are hoping that they might be on to something. It turns out she wasn't.

It did buy some free publicity for the case, even if Baron didn't add anything to the investigation. That's probably worth 20-30 minutes of DZ's time.


...smoke and mirrors... [/*]

[/quote]

I yield to your experize on that subject.

[day2day]

You will never change JJ! You are WRONG again..and still can't admit it....

You must be a very very LONELY old man...

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day
You will never change JJ! You are WRONG again..and still can't admit it....

You must be a very very LONELY old man... [/*]

You must a very BITTER old woman.

Now, we have a quote from DZ, properly cited about Baron's advice, "keeping it in the back of our mind."

We have P'gal noting that she has talked to the BPD (as have several other posters).

We have Baron saying that she calls DZ, and we have Barron showing up twice, once with TV cameras for a show.

You got it wrong again and you are being called on it.

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is a site on Baron's track record:

http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/carla_baron/carla_report.html

I didn't see her come with anything "new" on the RFG case.

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


You must a very BITTER old woman.

Now, we have a quote from DZ, properly cited about Baron's advice, "keeping it in the back of our mind."

We have P'gal noting that she has talked to the BPD (as have several other posters).

We have Baron saying that she calls DZ, and we have Barron showing up twice, once with TV cameras for a show.

You got it wrong again and you are being called on it. [/*]

Wrong again J.J..I am neither old or bitter...
(young and silly i might buy into) :no:

I really wasn't talking about pgal...I was talking about DZ's relationshipwith Ms. Baron..thats all! There are MANY people who agree that Ms. Baron was either RIGHT On the money...(or) that DZ used HER for the smoke and mirrors...

And Ms. Baron just didn't pop in carrrying her cameras..believe me ..DZ showered and shaved for her arrival.....hammer

[day2day]

Originally posted by Politigal
off topic but curious

In the latest round of news on Gricar (inspired by Buehner) ---

*Why* did Patty Fornicola snub the Centre Daily Times? She commented to a couple other news outlets but refused comment to CDT.

Is she mad at Pete for his opinion that Zaccagni worshipped the ground she walked on? [/*]

Probly right pgal...she probly didn't want anyone to "know" that Detz...worships the ground she walks on!!
(be right back-i feel like i am gonna be sick ) :D

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day


Wrong again J.J..I am neither old or bitter...
(young and silly i might buy into) :no:



Once again, more mush.



I really wasn't talking about pgal...I was talking about DZ's relationshipwith Ms. Baron..thats all! There are MANY people who agree that Ms. Baron was either RIGHT On the money...(or) that DZ used HER for the smoke and mirrors...


I point out that DZ spoke to anyone, including P'gal. I would expect the local police department to answer their telephones. What, if any, influence Baron (or P'gal, for that matter) had on DZ is questionable.


And Ms. Baron just didn't pop in carrrying her cameras..believe me ..DZ showered and shaved for her arrival.....hammer [/*]

And it accomplished very little. :rolleyes:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day


Probly right pgal...she probly didn't want anyone to "know" that Detz...worships the ground she walks on!!
(be right back-i feel like i am gonna be sick ) :D [/*]

Had you actually read :read: either my or UTR's posts, you would note that PEF made only minimal comments on the third anniversary.


His girlfriend, Patty Fornicola — the last person ever known to have spoken with Gricar — still holds out some hope for his return.

“I haven’t given up,” she said Monday. Fornicola declined any further comment, however.


http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/..._106004034.html

I made it larger in hopes you would read it.

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Once again, more mush.



I point out that DZ spoke to anyone, including P'gal. I would expect the local police department to answer their telephones. What, if any, influence Baron (or P'gal, for that matter) had on DZ is questionable.



And it accomplished very little. :rolleyes: [/*]


And you KNOW it accomplished little? I will wait on a link.

:rolleyes: <---obviously we can ALL roll our eyes...sadly IMO rolling MY eyes won't help bring closure to LG and TG...

[day2day]

Originally posted by Firefly


Be he psychic or not, it's fun messing with JJ. :D

I don't think any of us can be sure what the fisherman may or may not have found. Won't know until, and unless, the police sweep that area of the river. [/*]

Firefly..
I hope you don't mind -i decided to just pm you a few questions!!
I hope that you can answer them for me!
:seeya:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day



And you KNOW it accomplished little? I will wait on a link.

:rolleyes: <---obviously we can ALL roll our eyes...sadly IMO rolling MY eyes won't help bring closure to LG and TG... [/*]

Well, for one thing, because he never said it did. :rolleyes:

Second, because in the clip you've linked to, DZ is investigating a lead on RFG being seen weeks after Baron said he died. :rolleyes:

No, rolling eyes would provide closure, but neither will posting false and misleading information. If fact, that may hurt the chances of finding RFG.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by day2day
Wrong again J.J..I am neither old or bitter...
(young and silly i might buy into) :no:

I really wasn't talking about pgal...I was talking about DZ's relationship with Ms. Baron..thats all! There are MANY people who agree that Ms. Baron was either RIGHT On the money...(or) that DZ used HER for the smoke and mirrors...

And Ms. Baron just didn't pop in carrrying her cameras..believe me ..DZ showered and shaved for her arrival.....hammer Well I can vouch for you being neither old or bitter (and my weekend was fine...thanks for asking...notwithstanding a grandchild's visit to the emergency room).

I see Baron's "role" as having been symbiotic at the time. There was the lack of clues, the desire of certain family members to try anything, the state of Baron's career, her ties to the area, her desire for national recognition, the family's desire to get national publicity for RG's case...perhaps even the BPD's desire to deflect attention from a seriously troubled investigation. Anyway, she came, she "saw", she left...and it did not amount to diddly squat.

[Firefly]

Originally posted by day2day


Firefly..
I hope you don't mind -i decided to just pm you a few questions!!
I hope that you can answer them for me!
:seeya: [/*]


Sorry darlin'...I don't see any questions in the PM section. Maybe they didn't make it to me.


Edit: It is nice to know you aren't old and bitter though. :D

[Cinderella]

I just want to state that I don't think that psychics are 100% right all the time as different things enter into the picture. I can for one verify that firefly knew something about me that no one else ever knew. I never ever told anyone about the incident. I had almost forgotten that it happened. I didn't really feel that it was important. I was wrong and it has affected me all through my life and I didn't even put the two and two together. After I asked firefly a question about myself, now the pieces came together and make sense. Thank you firefly for the awareness of the situation and for me to know that it was something that I brushed off, but it has affected my whole life. Firefly, I will be back with more questions. Once again, thank you for explaining something to me that only I knew about.

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Well I can vouch for you being neither old or bitter (and my weekend was fine...thanks for asking...notwithstanding a grandchild's visit to the emergency room).

I see Baron's "role" as having been symbiotic at the time. There was the lack of clues, the desire of certain family members to try anything, the state of Baron's career, her ties to the area, her desire for national recognition, the family's desire to get national publicity for RG's case...perhaps even the BPD's desire to deflect attention from a seriously troubled investigation. Anyway, she came, she "saw", she left...and it did not amount to diddly squat. [/*]

Mornin S1..
Sure hope your gbaby is ok!! Nothin worse than a sick or injured littleone :(...
And yep..NOONE who drinks as much sweet tea as i do could EVER be bitter...:D
As for Ms. Baron..I have been reading a LOT about how psychics can help in these cases. I'm not so sure that even if she had "pointed" them in the right direction they would have found the right clue...
This case was messed up LONG before Ms. Baron walked into it.
jmo ...of course...

[day2day]

Originally posted by Firefly



Sorry darlin'...I don't see any questions in the PM section. Maybe they didn't make it to me.


Edit: It is nice to know you aren't old and bitter though. :D [/*]

Hmmm...very strange!! I pm'd them to you again! IF you don't get them this time..i wil walk them over to ya :D

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh Hello Darlin....:seeya: (sorry i HAD to say it...)
OT...but my gran just loved that man...(thanks for bringin back THAT memory)

[Cinderella]

Copied this over at the wrong board.


Cinderella
Senior Member

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Looking for Ray Gricar
Posts: 1298
firefly

Well who knows what will happen with the election. Firefly said that someone has to tie up the loose ends. Apparantely someone will get offed concerning Ray Gricar, but who. Will be watching. Firefly stated that there is fighting going on all ready and whoever is involved in Ray's demise is getting antsy. I will have to stay informed.

Hey Cloudbuster, I just noticed. Could S. Parks be your Sparks. OMG.

__________________
JMO, MOO

[Cinderella]

SherriJean,

Do you know how long that pond on Blue Ball Road has been there? Could you possibly tell how old it was?

[Cloudbuster]

hmmmm Spark would depend if RG thought of her as Sparks. If so this song goes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvXxBztUu9A&feature=related

Its someone known to RG as Sparks or Sparkles. I will ponder your thought thanks!!!

[Cloudbuster]

Now I forgot this song it fits too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icVgb23dHf0&feature=related

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella
SherriJean,

Do you know how long that pond on Blue Ball Road has been there? Could you possibly tell how old it was? [/*]


I don't know. I only found it by using Mapquest on Rdt 192 and following Blue Ball Rd. When I scanned out to look at the mountain I saw it. Later went to follow Rag Valley Rd and found out it was no longer open road to Madisonburg. All acres owned by group of men.

I don't know if there is any way of looking at earlier maps of that area. If you can even do it.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Now I forgot this song it fits too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icVgb23dHf0&feature=related [/*]

I don't know what has happened but since I hooked up with the 3-in1 package with Embarq, any video I try to watch, stops and starts and is lousy watching. Whether Youtube or a news site.
Very frustrating.

[Cinderella]

As I went to play the link to the music that Cloudbuster gave, I felt led for some reason to post this song for the Mystery Woman from someone other than myself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSYz8Q0k3nU

Also this one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8*3mftcV0dY&feature=related

[Cinderella]

I hope that this link works.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzduPKYz3uk&feature=related

[Serendipitous1]

Unexplained phenomena (as in wholly metaphysical occurences) have not produced even one verifiable new lead in this or any other case. Prove me wrong...'cuz I am admittedly not receptive to psychic musings. I can be entertained. And I can be prodded to think about other possibilities. But I refuse to be fooled.

[Serendipitous1]

I have not walked that park in 3 years. It is less than a block north of the SoS. The front part is a playground and ball fields for the kids. I walked around behind them and do not recall now where there are roads...but I should think the borough would have them gated to keep "partiers" out. I do not remember seeing any body of water, other than a drainage ditch. You will have to go look.

[Serendipitous1]

I think there is not much outdoor privacy anywhere in that general area, except maybe underneath the River Road bridge (next to that park)...where there was evidence of it being an occasional hangout for kids. But I think the water at the time was probably too high to conveniently access that area.

There is pretty much constant traffic on Water Street and River Road during the day. But I believe Good Friday fell on March 25 that year, so I doubt there were any school-aged kids around until maybe late afternoon.

I never really talked with any of the locals when I was there. So I do not have any any rumors concerning that park to pass along. Sorry.

[Serendipitous1]

I think I know the building you are referring to. It may be a residence. I once noticed a taxi parked there unattended also. Months after the disappearance, I walked along the creek/river from that direction. Someone had put up a sign at the water's edge...to the effect of 'private property, keep out'. I thought that was a bit odd. But it did not prevent me from continuing on, relying on my loose knowledge of public rights to riparian property.

I never saw any flowers such as were described found on the railroad bridge approach. But I saw plenty of evidence that the local kids play in that area by the creek/river. On one visit, I even saw a group of kids there.

A Bellefonte aside: "Major events attract folks from miles around, beginning in April when thousands upon thousands of daffodils burst forth in a blaze of yellow trumpets as if to announce the opening of trout season in the area’s sparkling mountain streams."
http://www.victorianbellefonte.com/media/pdfs/yearround.pdf

[Cloudbuster]

This is a case that was opened for Ray on 4-16-2008. It's on a psychic or dream vision angle. Anyone that's open minded this is for you. After you click on this link -find ray's picture and click on it and see what they came up with so far and it is interesting even the route.
http://sosteam.us/

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks, S1. I will take a closer look on the GIS map to see if I can find another parcel number where that building is. I wonder if LE ever talked to any of those children who played there to ask if they ever noticed anyone hanging around that railroad bridge area.

I just found this additional information------
parks are under the supervision of LARA, Lewisburg Area Recreation Authority.

Hufnagle Park - Located downtown, this park includes a playground area, a gazebo accompanied by seating for outdoor performances, and an exercise trail.

Wolfe Field - Between St. Anthony Street and Buffalo Creek, Wolfe Field includes a baseball and a softball field plus a playground area for very young children. On the upper level, formerly the site of the Borough's landfill, are another baseball field and a soccer field. Between this area and North Fourth Street is an open space wetlands area comprising a few acres.

I think the wetlands is the area I see on my map behind the gravel/salt piles with covers, where the strange markings on my map point toward.

The possibility of someone being in that area, possibly attempting a robbery, albeit in broad daylight, seems slim, but the rest of the evidence we have to go on is no less slim. Possibility a witness seeing him reading a paper in one park, holds possibility for him to have left there, parked in SOS lot, taken work with him, considering a day off to him might equal being out of the office in a relaxing location, and leaving his cell phone in the car not wanting to be disturbed.

If a robbery, gone wrong, occurred, he would have had his keys on him. I wonder if the keys were marked in someway to connote MiniCooper, and also if PF has any idea whether he would have had his wallet on him that day, possibly with money in it, but also driver's license, ID of sorts, possibly charge cards?? Just thinking maybe the laptop was still in the car and someone went back to it later.

Just attempting a 360 degree look at all possibilities, including who would separate a hard drive from a computer and toss it in so close to car, on the way outta town. Possibly someone walking, without a car, and someone who knew the Mini was RG's because they found the keys in his pocket? Dunno.......just some more 'possibility'.
JMO

I've bolded the parts I've wanted to comment on.

Yes, a mugging gone wrong is a possibility. A mugger hit him over the head while he was walking along the bank and he went into the river. Of the mugger hit him too hard and wanted to hide the body (really outside chance) and drug the body to the river. That doesn't match the scent evidence, but there could be a reason for it.

The laptop, could have been tossed later by a buddy; anyone even passingly familiar with the case would know that the Mini was found in Lewisburg. We know RFG was interested in destroying the data on the hard drive.

[Cinderella]

This is a case that was opened for Ray on 4-16-2008. It's on a psychic or dream vision angle. Anyone that's open minded this is for you. After you click on this link -find ray's picture and click on it and see what they came up with so far and it is interesting even the route.
http://sosteam.us/


Cloudbuster thank you for posting this site. I know that this was meant to be because of the signs that we asked of Ray. All we have to do is to be open to Ray and he will try to communicate with us and let us know where he is and what happened.

Information provided on the site very interesting. Even the woman looks like the person who everyone thought was with Ray. Her eyes really stand out. Hopefully someone will locate Ray and have a proper burial for him. I know that he is going to be found now. Also the woman that was with him, lied because her boyfriend supposedly stabbed Ray 20 times. Hotel makes sense. Maybe that was why Ray looked like he had some shadow on his face. I now believe that he had already moved out from being with Patty.

These are just my thoughts. It looks like a situation that he might have been seeing someone else and the boyfriend found them together.

Very likely scenerio.

Thanks again. CB

Also I truly believe that Det. Z thought that Ray was with someone.

[sherrijean981]

CB, here is a link to the PA Rails To Trails site with all counties listed but I don't see any trails listed for Lewisburg.

I checked out donut shops in the Lewisburg area and did come up with some. One in particular is on Front St, 2 streets back from the SOS. It can be reached from Market St and St Anthony St (across from Hufnagle-St Anthony Park). A little aside, (one of the persons arrested in the 2003-2005 drug investigation lived on that street.

Were you aware that the SOS had "free up to date wireless internet services"? Interesting.

http://www.gis.dcnr.state.pa.us/railtrails/

[sherrijean981]

CB, check out Rt 254 second road north of Milton. That is the closest to Lewisburg I could find on bike trails. These are built along the roads, not railroads.

http://www.trails.com/stateactivity.aspx?area=10307

[sherrijean981]

http://www.americantrails.org/resources/statetrails/PAstate.html

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks SJ and Cind. I think we might be able to find him if we study those drawings. if this is what happened to RG then it would make sense that he was seen Saturday around noon? After check out time?

I wish Mr Rickard would take a good look at the drawing and see what he gets out of it. So female 34 I wonder if that was her age then or now?

[sherrijean981]

Thanks SJ and Cind. I think we might be able to find him if we study those drawings. if this is what happened to RG then it would make sense that he was seen Saturday around noon? After check out time?

I wish Mr Rickard would take a good look at the drawing and see what he gets out of it. So female 34 I wonder if that was her age then or now?


I wonnder what her name is and who her boyfriend is? I would think the person you were thinking of would be older than that.
I wonder if the people on that site could get any more info?

[Cloudbuster]

Im wondering when Mr weaver released the information to the public about someone seeing Ray at Shikellamy Park? Was Ray alone? There is a one mile paved hiking biking trail by the marina, I read. It is closed October till April.

[Cloudbuster]

JJ you can add that witness.

[J. J. in Phila]

Im wondering when Mr weaver released the information to the public about someone seeing Ray at Shikellamy Park? Was Ray alone? There is a one mile paved hiking biking trail by the marina, I read. It is closed October till April.

I've heard reference to this, but nothing about the time and day.

[Serendipitous1]

Im wondering when Mr weaver released the information to the public about someone seeing Ray at Shikellamy Park? Was Ray alone? There is a one mile paved hiking biking trail by the marina, I read. It is closed October till April.It was TT (IIRC), relating a reported sighting of a Mini Cooper at Shikellamy State Park...the overlook, not the marina...to the medium, John J. Oliver, on the 'Haunting Evidence' show. Of course, there are trails at the overlook too. Then again, 'Brian's dreams' remind me a lot of Oliver's 'maps' - creative but vaporous...a 'folly good' waste of paper.

[Cloudbuster]

It was TT (IIRC), relating a reported sighting of a Mini Cooper at Shikellamy State Park...the overlook, not the marina...to the medium, John J. Oliver, on the 'Haunting Evidence' show. Of course, there are trails at the overlook too. Then again, 'Brian's dreams' remind me a lot of Oliver's 'maps' - creative but vaporous...a 'folly good' waste of paper.

I always get Tom T and Mr Weaver mixed up because they was both on that show together lol. I know it was the overlook but what I was trying to say was the Marina had the pavement on it's bike trail or to Hike on. S1 does the trails near the overlook have paved trails? They have had some sucess S1 if you read it all. S1 where would a donut shop be closest to Lewisburg?
Any and all kinds of help is what this case needs.:seeya:

[sherrijean981]

It was TT (IIRC), relating a reported sighting of a Mini Cooper at Shikellamy State Park...the overlook, not the marina...to the medium, John J. Oliver, on the 'Haunting Evidence' show. Of course, there are trails at the overlook too. Then again, 'Brian's dreams' remind me a lot of Oliver's 'maps' - creative but vaporous...a 'folly good' waste of paper.

Considering the fact he sat in the SOS with TT and never mentioned RG being in there, and he sat in front of the restaurant at one of their tables, right where RG supposedly was seen. Wonder why he didn't pick up on that, or him walking in the hallways with the MW? He was the one that heard 3 items being thrown in the river, supposedly the keys too.

[sherrijean981]

I always get Tom T and Mr Weaver mixed up because they was both on that show together lol. I know it was the overlook but what I was trying to say was the Marina had the pavement on it's bike trail or to Hike on. S1 does the trails near the overlook have paved trails? They have had some sucess S1 if you read it all. S1 where would a donut shop be closest to Lewisburg?
Any and all kinds of help is what this case needs.:seeya:


One of the donut shops is Dunkin Donuts, on RT 45 going north, not far past the intersection with Rt 45/Rt 15. Then the one I mentioned earlier that is on Front St just 2 blocks from the SOS, on a more private street. Walking distance from the SOS, parkiing lot and park.

[Cloudbuster]

Logic I found some articles on those words.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080926055743AAZzf8Y
http://www.panload.com/page/323384-If-Wishes-Were-Horses-Then-Beggars-Would-Ride-
http://www.stillonthehill.com/mouthpeace/songs/If_Wishes_Were_Horses.html

LW this article is interesting in meaning.
http://grieflossrecovery.com/grief/pdf/Can%20a%20Horse%20Really%20Fly.pdf

[J. J. in Phila]

Intuition ---------pass on by if not interested.

I have to ask these questions, irregardless of whether they are far-fetched or not.

1. Does the family, PF, anyone know how much cash RG may have had on his person that day, or what he normally carried?

2. Checks, cashier checks, any form of money other than cash?

3. Would he have had enough cash for someone to buy a plane ticket?
(Only way I think a beggar could fly is with money for a ticket.)

4. Was RG's credit card accessed at any time after his disappearance?

5. Although airlines may have been checked to see if RG had taken a flight out of town, were the records ever checked to see if anyone suspicious, with a record, may have taken a flight from a general airport Friday evening, Saturday? Possibly Williamsport, but more likely Wilkes-Barre or Harrisburg? Both a couple of hours away, but it would seem they are the closest larger airports where someone could attempt to blend in with a crowd rather than in the nearer but smaller towns, ones such as Selinsgrove.

6. Was there anything descriptive on RG's fleece that might have drawn attention, that someone working at an airport might remember? A logo possibly, or was the fleece non-descript?

I found a list of airports, and I am interested to know how many of them were checked out or could still be checked out. Asking a lot, I know, not knowing how long passenger lists from previous flights are retained. A one way flight, no layovers, to a city big enough to hide in----maybe to Philadelphia or Pittsburgh. Knowing how much money RG may have had on him could determine a destination, by cost alone, as in only enough money to go a short but safe distance from Lewisburg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_in_Pennsylvania

JMO

1-3. No answer has been reported.

4. No.

5. Those local airports, at best, have commuter flights, generally to Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. In the late 1990's there was one between Williamsport and Phila.

6. No, if it was the worn in the photo.

There was, however, an international airport about 10-15 miles north of the site where RFG was seen in Wilkes-Barre.

[sherrijean981]

For those interested in intuition-----pass on by if not interested.

Sometimes it is just so very strange how synchronistic things are. The question on another thread here tonight is 'does anyone still think he is alive?' Not a strange question at all to ask, only for me right now.

After last evening's bedtime prayers, before I drifted off to sleep, I thought 'I wish it is true that RG walked away'; just the knowledge, not needing to know any rhyme or reason as to why, just to know that as truth.

I drifted off to sleep thinking about the different possibilities of why and where, and fell asleep. I woke up this morning, jolted wide-awake. by these words---- 'If wishes were horses, beggars would fly'.

I jumped out of bed and ran right to the computer to see what that could possibly mean; the 'beggar' somehow made me feel sickened, but seemed to be the operative word in the statement. Someone begging the horse, someone begging, a beg-gar-----don't know what to make of it.

The misdelivered magazines of horses started arriving again last week, coupled with the woman's face showing up in print again, last week and this week. I have asked, 'why now, why this time of year'? It's heading into holi---day time, but somehow that doesn't seem like that's the totality of whatever it is.

It is something that somehow relates to the 'beggar' -----I don't recall ever hearing the words -----'If wishes were horses, beggars would fly' before, but the olden day 'gypsy', whom I have never seen to begin with came to mind, someone wandering from place to place. Someone 'begging' RG---- I am most interested now in what shows up next, and pray that something will.

Just passing it along for those interested in intuition. I knew last week when the horse and woman started showing up again, something was 'connecting', but I haven't the foggiest notion what question I asked that is being answered. I am always so very much in awe when these things happen. They are miraculous to me, and I never forget them. Now, if I weren't such a dullard and could figure out exactly what it means......
JMO


I wanted to tell you last week but forgot about it, but I had received a mailing that had to do with horses and supplies for them. I had it lying on the computer stand but a couple days later gathered a bunch of stuff up that I had to throw away and the flyer had been in it. Anyways, you came to mind when I saw it.

When you say "beggar" are you referring to homeless people? Someone on the street looking for jobs or for hand outs?

[sherrijean981]

Sounds like you are trying to find a way to get PF by means of your interpretations.

[sherrijean981]

I don't know if it is a 'homeless' person; someone who 'begs', a 'beggar' is all I can make out of that short phrase.

After a late evening online here last evening, I should say early morning, before I went to sleep, a song started coming through my mind. Music so many times comes up when I am searching for a match that will somehow explain what I am sensing, feeling, thinking.

The song is haunting. I never paid attention to the words other than 'I dreampt'----It is on an Enya CD I had purchased long ago, but haven't listened to for years.
(My cat thinks he's a better singer than any human could be so as soon as I dare to turn music on, he runs to the CD player and out-sings the singer. If I even go near my CD's, he starts singing so I don't even bother to turn it on----I am going to surprise him with a Christmas carol or two this year, even if it is sung in chorus with the cat.)

This morning, singing cat or not, when I woke up with the song STILL playing in my mind, I ran for the CD's to see if I could find it. I did, When I searched the CD, it was on track #13.

I came back online to search for the origin and lyrics, and there was the Gypsy, again--- The name of the song is 'The Gipsy girl's dream'----- so I guess that means a female 'beggar'. The following article states it was considered an 'unlucky' song for actors/actresses to even dare to whistle in the 'dressing rooms, (in a house, I think that would mean a bedroom), or they would be tossed out on the pavement if they dared to.

http://www.james-joyce-music.com/song03_lyrics.html

As I read the words to the song and strived to understand what I am to glean from them, 'dwelt in marbled halls, with servants and serfs at my side', the courthouse immediately came to mind. My interpretation is----it is a song about a female thief who dreamed she had found riches by falling back on her birthright, believing it made her less of a thief, excused of her crime through familial connections. But it was only her 'dream' thus 'If wishes were horses, beggars would fly'.

One question-----does the Courthouse has marble walls? (In a house, the most likely rooms to have anything marble would be the bathroom or kitchen.) I will just wait now to see what else, if anything, comes up.
JMO

Quote:
(((((falling back on her birthright, believing it made her less of a thief, excused of her crime through familial connections. But it was only her 'dream' thus 'If wishes were horses, beggars would fly'.

One question-----does the Courthouse has marble walls? )))))(
Quote


This is the part of your statement that makes me think you are at PF again. I don't know anyone who works in the courthouse in CC or OH. I didn't make the statement - you did.

I don't know if it was you but others have felt PF should not have accepted the car or the mortgage being paid off, "your thief" - marble walls/halls in a courthouse - "Centre County Court House".
Someone excused of her crime through familial connections - "PF's Uncle GF who was very prominent in Bellefonte government".

All of which has been repeated more than once on this forum by numerous people. No, I did not read the link or story you posted, because if it was a link to something other than your dream, it really isn't a connection to the case, it is someone else's thoughts in a story/song or whatever.

I am not putting you down for what you believe because I believe you do receive things in odd ways but look at what you wrote. The only person ever mentioned in the court house with familial ties to RG was PF. Unless you want to include BJL's mother.

Just my opinion on your post.

[ladyheartfixer]

Happy Thanksgiving to you also. I read with great interest your last postings on the RG case and can see a lot of sense in them. Being a reiki master I can often feel the energy of the writer thru the computer. I think you have some very special gifts that others may not be open to understanding. I had an interesting dream a year or so ago about this case but never posted it because I knew many of the others would not understand or accept it. I applaud you for being brave enough to share your readings with us.

[sherrijean981]

I am not responsible for who YOU believe my intiuitive I-Dea ( I & Dea together; Dea means God) describes. Your interpretations are YOURS to deal with. Since when is someone else responsible for what YOU choose to think, when it was YOUR choice to think it? That's why we are each free-will individuals----so we can each think and feel as an individualized 'self', free to draw our own conclusions. I am not responsible for YOUR interpretations considering you are utilizing your own tools to make them, choosing which tools you will use to create the result YOU desire.

This thread is about intuition, and that is solely what I bring to this thread. If you are dissatified with what comes to me as answers to my questions, by all means, pass on by. It is for those who are interested. I do not ask anyone to believe or disbelieve what comes to me, the process by which it comes to me or even in God. I know what works in my life so I use it. I do not abuse it with accusations as you imply because it caused YOU to think something. Project YOUR thoughts elsewhere, if you feel a need to have someone else take responsibility for YOUR thoughts. I have enough of my own, thanks.

If you feel you are being 'misled' by energy/intuitive readings, WHO'S responsibility is that? Blaming someone else for what YOU think is nothing I can help you with.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!

Then why are you getting mad and telling me off because of what I said? You better take a chill pill and relax or nothing will come through for you. Don't bring God into after the things you are saying to me. It isn't Godly!

I have no problems with what I think.

[ladyheartfixer]

SJ...God is many things to many people...everyone is different and that gives rise to free thinking..a "god-given" gift. What LW believes..or what I believe...does not matter...your "God" may be my "Goddess"...Intuitive insight is a special gift... one that we are "blessed" in having amongst us...yes..we who PB and JJ think are ...well...you name it...we are gullible...but then again..we are free thinkers....patience, acceptance of others belief systems....all are necessary to stay on this board. as before...Happy Thanksgiving!!

[sherrijean981]

SJ...God is many things to many people...everyone is different and that gives rise to free thinking..a "god-given" gift. What LW believes..or what I believe...does not matter...your "God" may be my "Goddess"...Intuitive insight is a special gift... one that we are "blessed" in having amongst us...yes..we who PB and JJ think are ...well...you name it...we are gullible...but then again..we are free thinkers....patience, acceptance of others belief systems....all are necessary to stay on this board. as before...Happy Thanksgiving!!


I wasn't talking about LW's "gift" being ungodly. This is a forum where everyone can read and make comments on things. She wrote and I made a comment. And if others out there were honest about what she wrote, it came through to them too.

She came down on me like a ton of bricks because of what I got from her post.

The ATTITUDE was not Godly from her remarks to me. Cut downs to anyone are not!

I don't feel I need a lecture from her/him on anything and in the tone it came across. I also don't need to be explained things to as if I am a child. I think everyone needs to take a time out, :D,
and get their minds in control of their fingers before they come on here and cut others up.

I am all for the blessings of God in ways that others get things. I have told her that. What I don't understand is why he/she is allowed to come down on everyone, JJ, PB and myself, if we do make comments. Our opinion on things matter too.

As far as PB is concerned, he has more insight into the investigation than anyone on here. He was in contact with LE, family, CCCH employees, friends, neighbors and he is a professional news reporter. I want his insight into the case. He is stating what he was toldand what he found out by going to people for the info and backing it up with news reports from other articles. I feel he deserves his time too, whether anyone else agrees or not. The same as with LW.

[J. J. in Phila]

SJ...God is many things to many people...everyone is different and that gives rise to free thinking..a "god-given" gift. What LW believes..or what I believe...does not matter...your "God" may be my "Goddess"...Intuitive insight is a special gift... one that we are "blessed" in having amongst us...yes..we who PB and JJ think are ...well...you name it...we are gullible...but then again..we are free thinkers....patience, acceptance of others belief systems....all are necessary to stay on this board. as before...Happy Thanksgiving!!


I doubt if I'd ever referred to any poster as "gullible" in regard to PB's blog.

Insight, however, has not yielded any results (at least what's been posted). Ironically, the Buehner/McKnight press conference did. It's just that most of the posters here don't currently like the results.

[sherrijean981]

The pipeline runs across Rt 522 outside the Lewistown area going towards McVeytown. I saw it but can't remember where exactly and it goes over the mountain north to Belleville crossing Rt 655 and that one is near the Valley View Home just east of Belleville. Not sure where in Centre County it went from there.

Rt 144 in the last couple years had replaced pipelines running just over the guiderails and on the other side of the creek bed. There had been trees clear cut in that area and they had taken the pipes under the highway in a couple of spots and there were dirt roads in that area. One of the areas would have gone up in the mountain between Greens Valley Rd (I think the dirt road was was called Little Greens Valley Rd) and Pleasant Gap. On the other side of the road was a dirt road that eventually comes out on Black Hawk Rd, at the bottom of the mountain. It has homes and the Nursery we had talked about previously that showed up as having ponds near it just after turning off Rt 144. (Black Hawk road comes out at intersection of Rt 144/Rt 192 and goes to Oak Hall - Boalsburg, and there is a quarry on that road.)

[sherrijean981]

A small story on the pipeline in question:
http://www.dom.com/about/gas-transmission/covepoint/expansion/pdf/newsletter_0208.pdf

[sherrijean981]

Another article on the pipeline crossing numerous counties:

http://cryptome.org/ferc050506-1.htm

[sherrijean981]

I found this old township map that shows townships plus the soil colors I am looking for. I am looking for a match for the same color strange material inside the horse's broken leg. (No dream this morning. Instead my right leg began to pain horribly. Not until I went and picked up the horse's leg did the pain stop. Some think I shouldn't feel pain when doing energy readings, but the way I see it, there are limited ways for things to manifest, and thinking may not be enough. If that's what is required, I have always been willing to be that open vessel it can come through. It always goes away as soon as I make 'the' connection. I am certain LadyHeartFixer understands exactly what I am speaking of.)

http://www.libraries.psu.edu/emsl/guides/X/Centre.jpg

When I saw the red line through Burnside, I went to get the horse's broken leg to compare. Under magnification, it is not that shade of red at Burnside, but instead like that of Clinton Red Shale.

That color matches the one to the right of Hecka on the map, toward Madisonburg, a small jutting out there from the edge of the map right at a corner mark for Centre County.

Comparing that same color on the map, it matches only two other areas; Seven Mountains, where the pipelines were said to have been run, (southern point of Harris and Potter Twp), and Sayer's area, Bald Eagle creek, where there are most likely pipelines of some sort. The color at Bald Eagle is not on a mountain, but right along Bald Eagle Creek. That does not necessarily eliminate it considering the broken leg could have occurred there, and was then taken to the mountain area. The only places that match both soil and mountain are right off Hecla over the mountain toward Madisonburg and Seven Mountains.

If Seven Mountains was the location in the dream, I would have come down to Route 322, not Route 64, so not a match. If I had come down off the mountain and on to Howard, I would not have been coming up on Route 64. Basically that leaves only one location; Nittany Mountain, somewhere in that jutting out area.

I just dusted off my Atlas to check on roads and topography; Route 445from Madisonburg to town of Nittany, with the orangish red area being State Game Lands in between. Because the dream went from the mountain and then to route 64 seemingly quickly, I don't know if it would have been from Route 445, which may be the alternative to not sensing Blue Ball Road either.

I will pull up the GIS map to see if I can find any owners there other than the State Game Lands. There may be cabins in that area that are privately owned, on leased game lands. IIRC, somewhere in that area a judge's son and his young friends all died in a cabin fire, so that would mean there are cabins there. I will keep looking to see if there is anything close to that jutted out area that coincides with the dream.
JMO


If you check the area of red you are talking about above Nittany there is a dirt road going across the mountain towards Pleasant Gap/Centre Hall. That was the Rag Valley Rd I had seen the first I came across the Rd, and it went from Madisonburg to Blue Ball Rd. It does not come out the whole way anymore. That was the area I spoke to the Doctor and he said it was only used for snowmobiles or 4 wheelers now, due to damage to the road, and you couldn't drive the whole way across anymore.

I remember the fire the kids died in and yes there are cabins in that mountain. Just in the 3 years we have been on here, Blue Ball Rd has had land sold on it and more camps going in.

I wonder how much area 700 acres takes up on that mountain? You also can come out at Heckla and cross Rt 64 to get to Howard.

My husband said when we were trying the new road, #99, the pipeline was coming out near Pleasant Gap. We were on a day trip and crossed many roads in Mifflin and Centre Counties and had seen it in numerous areas. One of the sites I researched for info on the pipeline had Pleasant Gap listed as a site.

Burnside township is out past Snow Shoe. Southern Potter and Harris Township would connect with Mifflin County. If you look at your map, Churchville would be Tusseyville now. Colyer Lake just over the hill from it. One of the roads from there goes through the mountain and takes you to a small picnic area we used to go to. You can connect with Rt 322 from that road or come out on the elbow at the bottom of the mountain in Mifflin County on Rt 322. Also a park back there.

There is a rest stop at the top of the Seven Mountains with portable bathrooms. Behind those, there is a path that goes up into the mountain and goes to a vista view that Rep. Ruth Rudy had put in while she was still active in government. I never made it to the outcropping vista, but had gone half way one fall before it got dark.
It looks like it is getting more use since then (6 years ago). It overlooks the reservoir near the elbow of Rt 322, our water supply.

I will look for the other site I was reading last night and post it for you. Might give you more of an idea of where all the pipeline is going.

[sherrijean981]

Here is one of the links on the pipeline but it includes all states it involves.

http://www.trust-us.ch/cryptome/01-Cryptome-061213/ferc050506-1.htm

[sherrijean981]

elibrary.ferc.gov/idmws/common/OpenNat.asp?fileID=11013740


Another link to the pipeline.

[sherrijean981]

LW, this link shows a map of where the pipeline is going through with a lot of links to access. Probably the best link of all with lots of info.

http://www.dom.com/about/gas-transmission/covepoint/expansion/index.jsp

[sherrijean981]

Thanks for the great link! It shows me exactly what I am looking for.
Looking at that map, the lower left square corner of Clinton County, meets Centre, where the Red Shale continues across to the left then a space between the red shale and the new lines. They appear to be a line right up through the mountains near Blue Ball, Greens Valley area.

I believe the dream coupled with all else coming to me is a description of physical/geological make-up of the area. I believe I have found the answer to 'marble' and hitting my head; the quarry as a parameter, and also may be a geophysical description of the area being described.

http://www.goh-inc.com/oc_history.asp

1988
Daniel and his brothers Alan and Glenn Jr. purchased the quarrying operations of Marblehead Lime Company of Pleasant Gap, PA.

I never knew more words to the song than 'I dreampt I dwelt in marble halls' and those are the words that kept coming to me until I had to go and search for the rest of the words.

IF my focus is to be on the geophysical parameter of the quarry, the rest of the song may not be important, but I won't 'scrap' it until I know for certain that the 'gipsy' woman who committed a theft and was left off the hook by her political connected father is not connected somehow.
JMO


When we were discussing the Greens Valley Rd and this plant previously, I mentioned there is a road on the one side of the quarry, that goes back to the mountain. The one road that had been a working road from Greens Valley Rd to Blue Ball Rd was closed off due to people using 4 wheelers and tearing the roads up. But there is still a trail/road of sorts that goes down to the back of that quarry. I don't know if I can find the map again but will look tomorrow.

[sherrijean981]

Thanks again for this link. On this site there is a map already with some roads on it. Here is the link to it.

http://www.dom.com/about/gas-transmission/covepoint/expansion/pdf/03_434_6pa.pdf


It looks like it is crossing Rt 322, Rt 45, and the Black Hawk Rd and up the mountain and just might be running behind the homes on top Mt Nittany. Then crosses over Rt 64 but on the map I can't tell where.

Wish I would have read this earlier, we could have taken a drive today to see where it came out. I don't have a car anymore to do it, but can go over tomorrow after my husband gets off work.

[sherrijean981]

I need the address on Madisonburg fire years ago to determine where the 'fire--place' fits in on the map. I found this but no specific address.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1998/03/24/1998-03-24_grief_unites_town_that_lost_.html

I don't even know if cabins have street addresses. It may just be RD--??

I would also like to know exactly the exact location of the fire that was reported on Saturday after RG went missing. A crew in a low flying aircraft was sent out to check on it and were told at the same time to keep an eye out for the red and white Mini.

I read it early on and a later report said they didn't find any fire. I would like to know the location reported and how close to the Madisonburg area it was.

The 'fire--place', IMO, fits in somewhere between the marble and the red shale. The only 'fire--place' I can think of that may fit within the parameters I have sketched out is either the earlier cabin fire said to have occurred on Madisonburg mountain and/or the report of a fire the Saturday after RG went missing.
JMO


What about the fire of the Country Club across from the old Heckla Park? My soon was married there in 2000 I think it was so it was after that.

[sherrijean981]

What about the fire of the Country Club across from the old Heckla Park? My soon was married there in 2000 I think it was so it was after that.


Sorry, that can not be right. My granddaughter is almost 18 and she was born after they were married. Had to be 1989 maybe so that wouldn't count either.

But the first fire at the Mt Nittany Inn on top the mountain was around the time RG died. Then another one just before the opening.

[Politigal]

Sometime on Saturday after RG went missing, LE had someone checking the Cleveland Indians stadium parking lot for the red and white Mini. Does anyone recall who informed LE of that holding possibility?
JMO

I thought it was Sloane.

[Politigal]

Thanks, Pgal. Would that have been the PSP? I thought SS said DetZ never talked to him about the case.
JMO

I'm not sure...I could be wrong about it being Sloane.

I do recall that Tony posted that he (Tony) wasn't even aware of the Cleveland trip in the past, at that time.

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks, Pgal. Would that have been the PSP? I thought SS said DetZ never talked to him about the case.
JMO


The never interviewed him afterward, as part of the investigation, though the profiler did. There were calls hade on the morning of 4/16/05, according to JKA. I'd assume that one of those was to Sloane.

[J. J. in Phila]

I would think there would have been very few who would have known about it.
Obviously LE was not called in that time, so LE wouldn't know.
IF it was on a weekend, RG wouldn't have missed work so no need to explain there.
As you have stated, family didn't know.
I am not certain how soon after disappearance the ex-wives may have been contacted, or even if they knew about it.
JMO

I think TG said that it was a **soon to be ex-wife** or something to that effect. It would have been the second Mrs. Gricar, from the time frame. From what has been reported, she said very little. Sloane, or one of the long term staff.

[J. J. in Phila]

Are you saying RG was not yet divorced from EG at the time of disappearance?

At the time of the Cleveland trip, from what TG posted, they were not.

[sherrijean981]

As I continue to research the area directly above the horse lake at Penns Cave where the Cleveland-Indian trail begins, I came across a good map to give me the 'bird's eye view' of area I have been searching for to zoom in on another horse and heart.

Here is the link for those interested. It requires some work to get to the location I am questioning.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=p&msa=0&msid=116214831746448224113.00045730cc4689085c647&ll=40.815628,-77.799339&spn=0.022735,0.036478&z=14&source=embed

It is a map of Mt. Nittany trail. Pull the map over using mouse, moving over to route 144 and Greens Valley Rd. Pull Greens Valley Rd. over until you reach Blue Ball Rd. Then click satellite. The brown area is what I am interested in.

SJ----since you traveled Blue Ball Rd, do you have any idea what is in the brown area? On the right side of Blue Ball Rd is the Cleveland-Indian trail, with area taking on shape of South America. What I want to know is what is the brown area to the left of Blue Ball Rd.

JMO


Are you talking the brown area before you get to Rag Valley Rd from Rt 192? If so there were camps running across that area of mountain before reaching Rag Valley Rd. Some were being cleared when we were up there, some land was being sold off on that side of the road too and a lot of other camps already tucked back in from the road.

[Cloudbuster]

Here is a article LW involves Columbia case. I think you are uncovering the drugpipeline.

In 2004, the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia indicted the twins on narcotics-trafficking charges.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/04/30/colombia.drugs/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------

These articles are all together for those interested in the Luna case. Alot happened after Luna was killed in 2003. I complied how that all works. I heard those words "you crossed MOMO you bas...d." So I put all these articles together because MO goes to a man in these articles with political ties and you name it.
http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=15631
http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=15478
http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=15440

http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=15512
international enterprise that stretched from Mexico to the U.S. East Coast.

http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=15589

http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=15571

[Cloudbuster]

That's weird I can't get them to open now either. I read all of them today. I got the articles from this article.

Apr 27, 2008 ... "It is not news to most people in this courtroom that Mr. Tillman is the son of one of the most notorious drug dealers in Baltimore City ...
www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=15631 - 83k - Cached - Similar pages

The article is called Baltimore City Paper-News+Features: Grave Accustions

[J. J. in Phila]

I have heard that there was dusk in the Mini, but I do not know if it was tested.

[Serendipitous1]

I have heard that there was dusk in the Mini, but I do not know if it was tested.I think that can be safely assumed...as having happened shortly after sundown that Friday. :wink:

[J. J. in Phila]

I think that can be safely assumed...as having happened shortly after sundown that Friday. :wink:


Sorry, dust.:tongue:

[Serendipitous1]

Sorry, dust.:tongue:I knew that. I was just jerking your chain.

[J. J. in Phila]

I knew that. I was just jerking your chain.


I'm sure it was just a link in the chain. ;)

[Cloudbuster]

LW what one of these cementaries is close to where the call came in from, and includes a church?

[Cloudbuster]

heres the link:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pacentre/graves.htm

[gstickley]

Does anyone remember the area covered by the cell phone tower?

[J. J. in Phila]

Does anyone remember the area covered by the cell phone tower?

Where? I did a map figuring a maximum five mile coverage.

[gstickley]

Where? I did a map figuring a maximum five mile coverage.

Is the 5-mile coverage all that the tower covers?
Can you tell me the area the tower covers (communities, whatever) so I can see the area on a map?
Thanks.

[J. J. in Phila]

Is the 5-mile coverage all that the tower covers?
Can you tell me the area the tower covers (communities, whatever) so I can see the area on a map?
Thanks.

That is quite approximate. The mountains have an effect as well. Five miles should be a maximum.


This is the site that lists them. http://www.cellreception.com/towers/

Note: If you move the map you have to wait a bit for the towers to load

[gstickley]

That is quite approximate. The mountains have an effect as well. Five miles should be a maximum.


This is the site that lists them. http://www.cellreception.com/towers/

Note: If you move the map you have to wait a bit for the towers to load

Do we know which tower picked up the phone call to the courthouse?

BTW, thanks for the site.

[gstickley]

Wow, LW, your special talents have certainly taken us on a trip & a half; your horses keep returning us to the same area too.

[J. J. in Phila]

Do we know which tower picked up the phone call to the courthouse?

BTW, thanks for the site.

Pretty much, there is one owned by the County near or at the Courthouse. There are towers, a cluster to the south of Bellefonte, but there are three to the east. The ones to the east are between Brush Valley and Bellefonte, so it would be an impossibility that a call from Bellefonte would be picked up by the Brush Valley towers; there also more than 13 miles away.

[J. J. in Phila]

FYI, there are a string of cell towers along I-80 so if anyone was driving up there, LE could tell.

[J. J. in Phila]

You might have to wait for it to download.

The western most (leftside) tower is owned by

Cellco Partnership

at:
"3 mi East Of Sr 2007 N. Of Smithtown Gap Rd.
Madisonburg, PA"

The eastern most (rightside) tower is a county owned tower:

Centre County 911

at:

"3.0 Miles Off Sr45
Woodward, PA"

[J. J. in Phila]

No reason then to send a fire team aerial search to look between Centre Hall and Rebersburg.
JMO

Thart would be the area covered by the western most tower, exclusively at least roughly east of Madisonburg. The Centre Hall tower should cut out around Blue Ball Road, maximum.

The I-80 towers don't really penetrate Brush Valley, at least down to 192.

[J. J. in Phila]

Since they don't reach down to route 192, and PF said RG claimed to be on route 192, I will take what has been said as truthful until such time as it may be proven one of the two lied about his being on route 192.
JMO


Be careful here. This is evidence that the call was made from the Brush Valley area, but not that RFG was on Route 192. Even if we take the polygraph as accurate, all we know that RFG said he was on Route 192, not proof that he was.

Also, several roads could take him quickly from 192 to I-80. In theory, it's faster to get to Lewisburg via I-80, even from Brush Valley.

[J. J. in Phila]

What's to be careful about, JJ? The call we are discussing is the call that was made from his cell phone which had to bounce off 'a' tower. We were told RG told PF he was on route 192, an area that isn't serviced by route 80 towers, the tower area you have just brought into the equation. By your saying it was a route 80 tower, you eliminate route 192 as call area, the area PF said RG said he was at. IF so, why did LE say it was from the Rebersburg area? Rebersburg is not in the route 80 area.
JMO

I'm saying that while the call made within the range of the Brush Valley cell tower, and RFG said he was on 192, that doesn't mean he was on 192 or stayed on 192.

Me being conservative.

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks for the link. I will check out the exact proximity to the horse heads on the map.

Interesting----the first Amish on the list location has to be so very close to where the 'accident' occurred that day we returned on route 192, where the road was closed, and the horse stood in front of us with head hung down, so we were sent on up around the back roads and then back down.

Since cemeteries are typically not secluded, and someone digging there who wasn't supposed to would likely draw attention, as would a freshly dug grave, curious as to what leads you to think 'cemetery'?
JMO

Okay the first Amish reads:

Gregg Township: R.D.#2, Spring Mills.
Directions: From intersection of Routes 144 and 192 in Centre Hall, travel 6.5 miles east on Rt. 192, and take right onto a dirt road just beyond a small barn with a rather large silo. (The dirt road is 0.6 miles east of 192 intersection with Grenoble Road.) Travel down the dirt road about 1/2 mile until you're at the edge of a forest line with a field. To the right of the road, walk along the forest line about 50 yards until you see a small wooden fence enclosure.

The mention of the dirt road takes me back to my Indian dream. Also if someone is trying to hide evidence cemetery's are a good place to do it. Im looking for anything church nearby because of the song on the tape that sang about a church. So Im just looking at cementarys as a way of disposal that wouldn't stand out especially a rural one. The church would be a clue at least to me lol.

[Cloudbuster]

I noticed in the Centre Hall areas there are a lot of vetenarians and clinics for animals. I thought I'd mention that because Honey was having problems. I just wonder if RG was going to get medicine for Honey.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I also see there is a business SWABB J R GUNSMITHING SERVICES

Rd Centre Hall
State College, Pennsylvania 16801

Im just looking at businesses in the area .

[Cloudbuster]

Did they check this bed n breakfast? I see it sits on Church st.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g52337-d1110696-Reviews-Keller_House_Bed_and_Breakfast-Centre_Hall_Pennsylvania.html

The airport I think goes to Harrisburg trips.???????? usually can't you rent a car there?

[J. J. in Phila]

In 20/20 Vision, the victim's name is Amanda Zephyr, last name in the student directory.

[Cloudbuster]

Defense attorney Ron McGlaughlin, in his opening statement, attacked the credibility of the prosecution's key informant, Kenyon Ebeling, saying that while she was working with police, she continued to use and sell heroin.

"I believe the jurors have to look at the police conduct in this case, to see if it falls to the level of entrapment," he said. "I believe the evidence shows that while she was working for police, she was dealing and using heroin.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/14644243.htm

The link no longer works but does anyone know what area she is from?

[Cloudbuster]

Click on this link:
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=86
Right click on the photo.
It brings other photos up.

click on all of them till you see the one with RG and TC and MM (that was the part missing off the photo with TC and RG)

Now tell me this it is not TC that RG is giving that angry look to it is MM. Does anyone see that?

[Cloudbuster]

http://www.usnodrugs.com/news.htm?cid=3781&s=New%20Jersey
http://www.basd.net/sports/baseball/Red%20Raiders%20Sponsors.htm
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2006/01/01-17-06tdc/01-17-06dnews-07.asp

Madeira said the negotiations for
many of the co-defendants continue
and “if they want to deal, they have to
cooperate.”
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2005/09/09-29-05tdc/09-29-05dnews-front-01.pdf
900 S. Glenn
Circle on June 22. Foss
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2005/11/11-15-05tdc/11-15-05dnews-front-01.pdf

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't see it honestly.

[Cloudbuster]

LW you have a good point about the phone call being a mark incase something was wrong. He did it in a way as to not alarm anyone. Also when you think about it Im sure Ray knew MSmith had a scheduled day off for friday. So Thursday night RG put the book on MS desk knowing Mark would not be in till Monday to find it. It didn't alarm anyone cause he knew no one would see it before Monday. Did he also do this as another mark in case something went wrong? If something went wrong he knew the book would be found on Monday. If nothing went wrong then he could go to the office and put the book back before Monday? Thats 2 things he could do that wouldn't alarm anyone but yet they leave 2 markers for LE to follow.

[J. J. in Phila]

The call could have been three things:

1. A call to fix a location where he was if something was about to happen to him.

2. It was to give a general location that eventually lead to the Mini, but would give RFG some lead time before the Mini is found.

3. He was making a call about the dog and just happened to make it from Brush Valley.

I tend to think it was #2 or #3, because it doesn't pinpoint exactly where he his, just about a five mile radius.

From what it looks like, I'm guessing the tower that carried the call is the Cellco Tower, which basically covers 192 from outside of Centre Hall to Rebersburg. That was the initial search area. (This would be a lot easier with the cell records.)

[Serendipitous1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVRKmre856E

[J. J. in Phila]

I thought you said you were using five miles as the radius for a cell phone call to a tower. Centre Hall to Rebersburg is 15 miles, so how far 'outside of Centre Hall' are you talking about? My guess is Rebersburg was chosen because it is where cell phone service in that area stops.
JMO

It's a radius or five miles in either direction; a 5 mile radius is 10 miles in diameter. It doesn't quite reach to Centre Hall, so it's about 3-4 miles out.

[J. J. in Phila]

Blue Ball road is five miles out of Centre Hall. Are you saying the call would have bounced off a tower 5 miles away before it would bounce off two that are only two miles away?
JMO

No, Blue Ball Road has a lot of overlapping, but the tower there is more than five miles from Madisonburg. There would be a possibility that the Cellco tower might carry a signal from there. When there are a number in range, a number of factors, including traffic, can come into play. Something can block the signal from one tower, like a building or a small hill. It would become variable.

[Cloudbuster]

The book may also be a marker he deliberately left in the event something happened.

Can you check this out for me-----in the picture you provided of RG, TC, and MM, in the background are photos of the Lee gang. Can you tell me if the woman in the top row, in the centrer, with shoulder length brown hair is KE? I have tried magnifying it but still can't make out the name. The other women have last names that are only four and five letters long, if that is any help. Thanks.
JMO

Yes it is KE in first row middle gal and SF is the girl beside her on first row last picture. I can't believe they cropped the TC and RG photo and I suppose forgot to mention MM also on it, right beside TC.

[J. J. in Phila]

While searching the maps for more clues and looking more closely at both of the cell towers at the horse head area, I see that one of them happens to be the cell tower for Centre County government-----911 calls.

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/details.php?id=1054279

Question here------do all 911 calls coming from any area in the county go to that particular tower? Seems hard to believe it would cover only the five mile radius spoken of here on board.
JMO

The range is approximate and there are "dead zones." I did call 911 once on my cell from Philadelphia and got Montgomery County 911, so I'd say no. It was just the tower that carried the call that happened to be about 3 miles away in Montco. I tried again in several minutes and the call went to Phila 911.

[Cloudbuster]

Interesting find LW. Maybe they are just going by first tower only? TL and gang would be little fishes. They normally use the little fish to get the main person which in this case is TL. He is still a small fish though. What they really want to do is like a tupperware party. They will make the small busts first then use them for information on the guy ahead of these people. In this case it was TL they wanted. They at that point will try to go after the big fishes, usually by getting info from TL. If he don't book them a party at the next bust ( abigger dealer than TL) then they will use the gang for information by giving them a plea deal which is a hostess gift lol. When the party is over they can if they get lucky be all over the states booking parties from parties. The investagation could end up state after state. The demonstrators can make alot of money and the guests are just winning a lighter sentence.

Book a party from a party the tupperware way lol.

[J. J. in Phila]

I found this article re: CC 911.

http://www.co.centre.pa.us/911/phase2.asp

Was triangulation used to attempt to pinpoint the exact call area? If so, how did LE arrive at the conclusion, Rebersburg area, if there are no cell towers in that area to triangulate with?
JMO


First, that was done in May 2005.

Second, I'm not sure if two towers carried the signal. The further north east, it looks like there is just one tower in range.

I don't recall LE saying it was in Rebersburg, just that that section of 192 was the start point.

[ladyheartfixer]

Book a party from a party the tupperware way lol.


:thumbsup: love the way you put this CB...makes it so easy for us women folk to understand the drug dealing concept...after all we don't have the brain power for some of these conversations ....:rolleyes:

[Chump#7]

logicworks:

Using that as a basis, would TL and his gang be considered 'little fish' or would the 'little fish' be those they sold to?
JMO

In my opinion, TL & gang = medium little fish. They do get smaller, but still...

It's the:

Everyone knows who they are but nobody is talking.

...Ones in Centre County, the ones with the money, the ones who remain as the little fish come and go with each semester, the ones whose economic interests are to secure their piece of the Centre County drug trafficking pie.

Initially, this what I thought Ray possibly stumbled upon. Threatened to upset a longstanding apple cart(s).

Nobody is going to touch that with a ten foot pole.

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks LHF. I agree with you chump. I also believe RG stumbled on something which involves the drugs or something within the investagation itself. Paranormally speaking the tape has things on it about a paid for WIRE. A discussion on the payment of the phone calls. A discussion on someone paying too much for the insurance on them. Then it brings up smuggling. You also have some stolen Coke. It almost seems like something within the investagation (corruption) was going on. I got the feeling Ray was investagating something. From words I gleaned on the tape that something was tossed then a murderer pulled out. That goes with a report that Milton Barracks took that a car was tailing RG's car a brown or tan car.