Results of the PSP-CIA review

[day2day]

Sick and tired of waiting for the "report"????:shrug: ...Lord have mercy..WHY won't they just tell us something...

[ladyheartfixer]

I'm tired of waiting and wondering what the hold up is. I also miss the lively chatter here. Are we just going to sit quietly and wait for the report to come out that everything was handled correctly?

[day2day]

Originally posted by ladyheartfixer
I'm tired of waiting and wondering what the hold up is. I also miss the lively chatter here. Are we just going to sit quietly and wait for the report to come out that everything was handled correctly?

Hiya LHF...

I sure miss it too :(!! I am almost convinced they don't want to reveal the "report"..OR they are hoping we will forget about it :(

[tiredoftheguff]

Even though Pete Bosak said that he will post the report I doubt very seriously that it will be the full report. Think about it.....why would the police allow us to know what the state police determined? Won't they have some investigating and digging around to do? Yeah like they are really going to share the info with us. No way! The boards will light up again sometime. Too bad Billy Boo Hoo and Parlor Elephant had such a snit with one another.....now they don't want to play anymore! Come out come out where ever you are.....

[ladyheartfixer]

I also think that Tony said he would share when the report came out.

[tiredoftheguff]

Hey guys....maybe we should picket and protest on the courthouse steps? How do you think they would like that?

[Hbgchick]

Cinderella, I noticed your post went missing on the other board. I read it before it was deleted though - where did you come by your information? Can it be proved? Not that I disbelieve you but something of this magnitude must be fleshed out.

[day2day]

Cinderella

I am sure you know much more about this case than I do. That being said...I had never heard about BJL before this case...

I do not believe that BJL commited suicide...
I do not believe that it was a "coincidence" either
I do not believe we as individuals will EVER know the truth about what really happened to Mr. Gricar...(we can't even find out which door he used on 4/14/2005)

What I DO KNOW...
IF I ever "vanish"...I pray that there would be people like you guys here..that would search the clues..ask the HARD questions..ruffle feathers..in hopes that the truth would surface!!

...:rose:

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by day2day
Cinderella

I am sure you know much more about this case than I do. That being said...I had never heard about BJL before this case...

I do not believe that BJL commited suicide...
I do not believe that it was a "coincidence" either
I do not believe we as individuals will EVER know the truth about what really happened to Mr. Gricar...(we can't even find out which door he used on 4/14/2005)

What I DO KNOW...
IF I ever "vanish"...I pray that there would be people like you guys here..that would search the clues..ask the HARD questions..ruffle feathers..in hopes that the truth would surface!!

...:rose:

D2D you and all the others I promise to to be there If any of you would vanish!! Cinderella and D2D I never believed BJL commited suicide. What I do believe is its 2 different things going on here. BJLs case seems connected indirectly to the RG case. That explains the coindence (its really not a coindence though). RG probably knew nothing about BJL wanting to go to him with information. I don't believe BJL ever really got to give RG the info. I think someone personal to BJL may have got to BJL first. (speculating) That is the tragic part of all this.

D2D I think we will learn the truth. I don't know when but its gotta be coming. There are only two of the three theories it fits to.

Saunterer I have to ask you this? Was PF married before? From what I was told she supposedly was. Also if so did he work in the courthouse something in the area of Probation or with Juvinules?

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Saunterer
Patty married the son of a judge in 1989, both then probation officers in Centre County. They were divorced in 1999 and Patty retook her maiden name.

The 'big' thread, 6/3/06:
http://board2.courttv.com/showthread.php?postid=8104912

Saunterer I want to applaud you for being able to find that link! Im covering my eyes right now lol. There is that DARN 1989 year again. Crap. In that year a case went down May 16,1989-It ended up from what I can tell as a cover up case. It was about a accident on a highway. The riddler who tried to explain it did'nt leave enough bread crumbs to follow but just enough to vaguely understand. The riddle man himself seemed dangerous. All I got out of the letter was there seemed alot of money involved and someone or possibly more than one died from the case. I never did find the case online? The date May 16 did'nt line up with cases I looked at. It also accused Ray of covering up or at least he believed Ray did. Just looking at some specualtion.

[Cloudbuster]

I read the link Saunterer and Im also thinking about Ms Fentons sighting. The judge who saw Ray and cannot recall the day we all know that story.

Now can anyone explain this part? If the Judge can't remember if it was Thursday or Friday CAN HE NOT remember if the metallic silver or tannish CAR was the one he saw RAY in???? For all that is good did he loose his sense of COLOR TOO????

Okay cut the judge a break here and did he see Ray outside his car in the parking lot?? Thats important because then we could know if Ray was checking the parking lot for his MINI or was he going to or from the courthouse???

If he remained in his silverish-tan car then it looks like he was looking for his mini. If he was'nt in the car when the judge saw him then it means he was in the courthouse.

Just the judge remembering something so minor as a COLOR could help clarify a lot. Why has he at least not confirmed the COLOR? I can see skipping the day BUT comeon the color???

[day2day]

Just what this case needed ..a "mysteryman"...!! :D

[Cloudbuster]

Well if we do the YUELING I won't be hard to spot. Just look for the long black hair and I'll let you in on mystery age lol okay its early 40's. :punch:

[day2day]

Originally posted by Saunterer
Q - This case was referred to the special investigative unit of the state police several months ago. I heard last week on WJAC TV that they have not begun to review the case. It seems unusual that they have not looked at the case as of the current date. What would be the reason for the delay? Anonymous 9/09/06

A - I'm not sure what the reason is for the delay, but that state police team is not scheduled to meet with investigators until next month now. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, there have been no new leads called in to police, so the trail really has grown completely cold. Pete Bosak 9/11/06

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/special_packages/ray_gricar/qa_forum.html

BS ..is all I have to say..BS! IF that was MY Dad..I would be tearing someones door down! yesterday!

Thanks for the update S. even if it isn't what we wanted to hear :(

[tiredoftheguff]

Really and truly it has been nothing but bull**** from the very begining! I wonder if the police really do want to solve this case? Actions speak much louder than words! Poor Ray....he deserves so much better than this! Once again I say why not hold a protest on the court house lawn? So we have been waiting all this time to hear about there findings and they have not even begun!!! Unbelievable! The leads that they have been given they have discounted totally! What gives here guys? They need to go and wire Joe Leathers to a polygraph machine!

[tiredoftheguff]

A man after my own heart!

[day2day]

MM..
I am speechless. (and that is rare)! I have NO clue why ANYONE would claim they "know" where Mr. Gricar is. And if they DO know where he is, why they would bring this news to a message board and not straight to LE. I did not mean to offend anyone here. If I did, I am sorry :(

That being said, since SO many people claim to know that he is alive and where he is, WHY are we wasting our time here? There are so many missing people out there ..and their families would love all the help that has been offered in a forum like this?

~considers changing my name to clueless-gal!! :shrug:

[day2day]

Originally posted by tiredoftheguff
A man after my own heart!

shame on you...LOL :no:

[Cloudbuster]

Saunterer do you mean there are more nieces and nephews?

[UndertheRadar]

Originally posted by Saunterer
CB - yes ... well, you're half right. Apparently the male genes predominate in these 'by-the-low-hill' dwellers. These questions were answered before by billywahoo, and the answers are still here. But, of course, one disgruntled poster labeled billywahoo as some sort of 'spin-meister', so all 'his' info is tainted.


Cloudbuster,

Tony Gricar has two brothers. One is named Andrew and is the youngest of the three. The name of the third escapes me at the moment.

Saunterer knows that Tony has two brothers and could provide you with this information without sending you on a wild goose chase to go look for it elsewhere on these threads and without one of those subtle slams on other posters Saunterer is so famous for. Sounds like Saunterer is just begging to be sent to bed without supper again.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Saunterer
MOO - The DC reported today (see the Sticky Links thread) that the PSP meeting will be Nov. 15-17 ... and will take place outside of Centre County, but the location is confidential. WTH? Every other media account I've seen in the last two days said Oct. 31 - Nov. 2!

As an aside, CB and C: ........ Cloudbuster calls me, I answer quite slowly, a girl with kaleidoscope eyes ....... (a corruption of, I think, a Beatles' song). No ... I haven't seen "that scene" since I stopped growing my own mushrooms. But it appears that growing mushrooms (or something similar) may be one of CB's hobbies ... not much was working for you the other night!! You didn't ... say, maybe ... drop off any 'packages' at C's house lately did you? OMG, LOL! JK ... but I do hope you have better luck "seeing" RG!

WOW I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO BREAK CT TV RULES AND ACCUSE ME OF? SELLING DRUGS FOR A HOBBYYY? IF you only knew how much I HATE drugs! I would NEVER deliever any package containing ANY type of DRUGS EVER!!!! I WORK HARD AND I FIND THIS COMMENT AGAINST THE RULES THAT I AM TRYING TO STAND BY COLDWATERS RULES! YOU HATE THE LION BOARD? Escuchen you owe a Perdo'n.

[Mishell1383]

[i]*snip*

What I DO KNOW...
IF I ever "vanish"...I pray that there would be people like you guys here..that would search the clues..ask the HARD questions..ruffle feathers..in hopes that the truth would surface!!

...:rose: [/B]


AMEN to that !! :rose:

[day2day]

For the PSP report? .....I for one am tired of waiting. I wish they would just release the findings..

For the entire Gricar family!:rose:

You are still very much in my thoughts and prayers..

[J. J. in Phila]

They may have just met; October won't even be over for a few hours.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by day2day
For the PSP report? .....I for one am tired of waiting. I wish they would just release the findings..

For the entire Gricar family!:rose:

You are still very much in my thoughts and prayers.. The three-day meeting of Pennsylvania State Police investigators to discuss the case was scheduled — after several delays — to be held today, tomorrow and Thursday. But I've heard it has been pushed back yet again to mid-November. ... Let's hope PSP sees something that was missed in the days, weeks and months after Ray disappeared. They're those "fresh sets of eyes" everyone has been calling for. Check back here tomorrow.
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/special_packages/ray_gricar/qa_forum.html

[day2day]

I just can't freaking believe this. It is way past time for someone (hint hint PF) who loved this man SO much..to start throwin a hissy fit. :flamemad:

[Cloudbuster]

d2d I understand your fury. With all due repect I think its gonna take the people of that area to throw the fit.:rose:

[day2day]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
d2d I understand your fury. With all due repect I think its gonna take the people of that area to throw the fit.:rose:

Hi there Cloudbuster!
I just don't understand why the citizens aren't outraged. This man was there for them. He spent many years fighting for them..
If I thought it would help I would go there myself. :(

It makes me so sad to think that his family will have to spend yet another Thanksgiving with no answers.

[sherrijean981]

I was searching the internet for any type of info on RG and found the site The Digital Collegian 02/06/1998. It was an interview by Jennifer Nejman with Ray Gricar.

There were 3 paragraphs that caught my attention:

1. Quote: "Ive always preferred to prosecute cases involving violent crimes. I do all the cases that we prosecute in the areas of sexual assault and domestic violence."

2. Quote: "I think that we have a terrific court system from top to bottom. The system works well and it's because of the people who are part of it."

3. Quote: "I love it here. I am a career prosecutor. Twenty-eight years speaks for itself and I don't have any plans to do anything else."

I believe the BPD, PSP and everyone in the court house need to read these three things. One, to check his files for the violent assaulter(s) and find him. Two, to prove and show to the community that they stand by him and the community the same as RJ did for them. Three, to see that his feeling were, he was a career prosecutor, and his career was not over until Dec. He had no intention of giving it up to do anything else until Dec. when he retired.

Also his hobby was photography. Did he take a camera with him on his trips? Are there any missing from his home? Did he take any pictures that would incriminate someone of a crime? Has anyone reviewed his pictures or any that might still be on film?

[Serendipitous1]

How is it that "The Daily Collegian", a student published newspaper, knew about the postponement of the PSP meeting on September 21, and the vaunted "Centre Daily Times" apparently had no clue until 6 weeks later?
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2006/09/09-21-06tdc/09-21-06dnews-13.asp

[sherrijean981]

I believe that was one of the 1st or 2nd postponements. I remember reading it wasn't to happen until early to mid November before and when Pete said it was being postponed to mid November I was wondering about that because of what I had seen elsewhere. Been to so many sites I don't remember where I originally read it.

Has anyone considered an "inside" job? A co-worker with a grudge? A friend?

[day2day]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
I was searching the internet for any type of info on RG and found the site The Digital Collegian 02/06/1998. It was an interview by Jennifer Nejman with Ray Gricar.

There were 3 paragraphs that caught my attention:

1. Quote: "Ive always preferred to prosecute cases involving violent crimes. I do all the cases that we prosecute in the areas of sexual assault and domestic violence."

2. Quote: "I think that we have a terrific court system from top to bottom. The system works well and it's because of the people who are part of it."

3. Quote: "I love it here. I am a career prosecutor. Twenty-eight years speaks for itself and I don't have any plans to do anything else."

I believe the BPD, PSP and everyone in the court house need to read these three things. One, to check his files for the violent assaulter(s) and find him. Two, to prove and show to the community that they stand by him and the community the same as RJ did for them. Three, to see that his feeling were, he was a career prosecutor, and his career was not over until Dec. He had no intention of giving it up to do anything else until Dec. when he retired.

Also his hobby was photography. Did he take a camera with him on his trips? Are there any missing from his home? Did he take any pictures that would incriminate someone of a crime? Has anyone reviewed his pictures or any that might still be on film?

Thank you for the quotes. IMO they have shown the community exactly what they think of Mr. Gricar. Although the three Amish children was a terrible tragedy for the state of Pennsylvania, I don't believe for one second thats why they had to "postpone" their meeting...:no:

Great question about the camera...!!

[ladyheartfixer]

yes, we are still waiting and I'm glad to see that Tony Gricar is finally getting as exasperated as we have been here.

[day2day]

Originally posted by ladyheartfixer
yes, we are still waiting and I'm glad to see that Tony Gricar is finally getting as exasperated as we have been here.


Hi Ladyheartfixer...
Still waiting and wondering...I suppose the PSP can count their blessings that they are dealing with Tony Gricar and not day2day...

[day2day]

P-a-t-i-e-n-c-e is a virtue. I believe everyone has been very patient with LE in this case. It seems like it is just one excuse after another for the delays..and noone is even making a fuss. :shrug:

C'mon Lara...say "somethin" !! I realize you are a busy lady..but maybe LE would step up to the plate IF you threw a small "tantrum"....:shrug:

You are always in my prayers


:rose:

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by day2day
P-a-t-i-e-n-c-e is a virtue. I believe everyone has been very patient with LE in this case. It seems like it is just one excuse after another for the delays..and noone is even making a fuss. :shrug:

C'mon Lara...say "somethin" !! I realize you are a busy lady..but maybe LE would step up to the plate IF you threw a small "tantrum"....:shrug:

You are always in my prayers


:rose: If you could have seen Lara at her graduation ... what a beautiful, happy young woman! One might never know of her father's unfortunate dilemma. She has a new job. Her life goes on ... and that is a good thing. Still, it does give one pause. Lara is always in my prayers too.

[ladyheartfixer]

if only her father could have seen her at her graduation...or did he? I guess we aren't going to know anything til the report comes out and even then I am not holding my breath. I am happy for LG that her life goes on...but it makes me wonder if it goes on smoothly or if there are secrets hidden and not spoken of?

As for you comments lustor...I agree and I just hope that something...anything...comes out from this meeting. If nothing else maybe the PSP or whatever can take the case over...

Another thought as I read this board daily and think about the situation...why did TG just now take a "public interest" in this case? Up to this point he has been ok with the way it has been dealt with and allowed things to take their course...I know I would have been shreiking about the way this case was handled...

JMO

[sherrijean981]

Quote:
"It seems like it has been a longggg haul for all of us. It is funny how Ray's disappearance has grabbed ahold of certain people and won't let go. I am one. Many days I say, I'm done with it, let someone else worry about it, it is not my job, and while everything is true, it just won't let go."

I don't think you could not come back here. From reading all these sites I am firmly convinced we are ALL here until he is found or we find him. I for one am obsessed beyond control and I think my husband gets tired of hearing me spout my thoughts, feelings and theories. He just looks at me but tonight he told me he still wants to hear about it. So here I am again. lol

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
If you could have seen Lara at her graduation ... what a beautiful, happy young woman! One might never know of her father's unfortunate dilemma. She has a new job. Her life goes on ... and that is a good thing. Still, it does give one pause. Lara is always in my prayers too.

Well I am sure that I am not at all like Lara..(and that might be a good thing)..But if my Daddy just dropped off the face of the earth...they sure couldn't shut me up...and I am not sure that I would ever really be "happy" again. But that is me...

I realize that Lara is a busy gal...but it saddens me that she has been SO quiet...

:rose:

I do pray for the Gricar family daily....

[day2day]

Originally posted by ladyheartfixer
if only her father could have seen her at her graduation...or did he? I guess we aren't going to know anything til the report comes out and even then I am not holding my breath. I am happy for LG that her life goes on...but it makes me wonder if it goes on smoothly or if there are secrets hidden and not spoken of?



JMO

LHF...
I have many of the same thoughts as you do. Maybe we both need a vacation...:D

As for Mr. Gricar being there...I have thought of that also...:chicken:

[day2day]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
Quote:
"It seems like it has been a longggg haul for all of us. It is funny how Ray's disappearance has grabbed ahold of certain people and won't let go. I am one. Many days I say, I'm done with it, let someone else worry about it, it is not my job, and while everything is true, it just won't let go."

I don't think you could not come back here. From reading all these sites I am firmly convinced we are ALL here until he is found or we find him. I for one am obsessed beyond control and I think my husband gets tired of hearing me spout my thoughts, feelings and theories. He just looks at me but tonight he told me he still wants to hear about it. So here I am again. lol

A very LONG haul! But you are right..I for one will be here until he is found ...!! I can't imagine someone who gave so much just fallin off the face of the earth and not ONE single person (besides Tony Gricar) standing up and screaming at the top of their lungs for SOMEONE to find him.

At times I have to walk away from this because I try to put myself in LG's shoes..PF's shoes...and their is no way in HADES that I could keep silent for this long.

:shrug:

[Cloudbuster]

I too just can't turn away from this. Something is not quite right about all this and I just can't put the finger on it. I deeply feel for this family! I say prayers for them all daily.

I was thinking about Tg being silent and then not being silent and I wonder if when he met with the New DA if he was told something that maybe made him feel like everything was okay? Then I started thinking whatever he was told is not how it really is and maybe he sees that now? I pray God gives him the strengh to guide him through this! :rose:

[sherrijean981]

Hi, Cloudbuster,
The last time I saw mention of TG he was leaving the site. He was fed up with all the scenerios and I guess some people were very mean in what they were saying. If I was one of them by any of my scenerios I am deeply sorry. I would never hurt someone intentionally. But he should know people are only voicing opinions. Then again he was receiving personal emails. People can be very cruel.

TG, I am sorry if I said anything to offend you. Some of my scenerios are said because I had been through one (spouse leaving). Other than that, I have a bad feeling someone has hurt him. NOT your family or PF. But that is all they are - scenerios. JMO

[tonyGricar]

Actually, I take little offense to any scenarios, and have only had a couple of issues that have been addressed off-line. To each his own, which is the purpose of these forums. I'm not actively participating here, unless there's an area I can assist in. I still keep an eye on the board, but due to time constraints and schedule, I'm limited to once a week or less. Currently, I do a quick scan for relevance and that's about it.

PMs are the easy way to flag me down as I receive those notifications via my email.

[Cloudbuster]

Hi Tony :rose: Hang in there God is on your familys side! God said in his word for everything that is unknown will become known! He is the final Judge. I know this is hard beyond words but we are all here for all of you. Sometimes it may not seem like that but truly we are! CB :)

[sherrijean981]

Hi Cloudbuster
Have you ever been on the State College, PA - town hall site? I was on there tonight and there is a guy on there that has a theory but he sounds really out of it. DF are the initials, could this be the person I don't know? I have been checking the courthouse sites, and commisioners sites but nothing is ringing a bell.

[Cloudbuster]

Hi sherrijean
DF is on the site you are talking about but Im not talking about him. Right about now he is probably lets say under the weather. Meaning he can't be happy right about now. But you have a pm.

[sherrijean981]

Quote:

"It is really funny how we have all come to share and become friendly with one another. I love to see everyone's posts. I don't know what I will do when this case is solved. If the news isn't good then I will be devastated as I know all of you will be."

I check in every hour or so and am usually disappointed when no one has posted. When this case is solved and Ray found, alive, we can have a huge celebration and toast to his health and well being. If he is found and not alive, we go to his funeral or send cards, and pray for his family and him. Then we look for someone else who needs us. and there are many out there. JMO

[sherrijean981]

Quote:

"It was probably 17 years ago and me and my children were at a little league baseball game being played in Milesburg. My daughter was probably 10 at the time. My daughter went with some friends over to a convenience store. When my daughter came back she said, "Mom, I really got this bad feeling when I was in the convenience store." I asked her what happened and she said that there were children with a man in a van, and the children especially the girl kept staring at my daughter. My daughter said that it felt odd, really odd, almost like the girl was saying help me, but couldn't. It had taken place about 1/2 hr. before we were discussing it. We both finally shrugged it off because the van would have been long gone and my daughter wasn't sure. I think that we should have turn the information into the police. Although we weren't sure, that would have let
the police decide what to do. "


Sometimes they might even be getting abused at home and see someone that looks like someone that could help them. I know what you mean though. We drove by a SUV one day and the teenage girl gave us a look like that. Almost like they were using their eyes to ask for help. I even told my husband who was driving we should flag the guy down and see if he was her gfather. He was older. My hubby didn't think that would go over very well. There was no one listed as missing but I still felt uncomfortable. I guess it is being a Mom - GMom - and GGMom! Seems the older I get the more my heart aches for kids. Especially that baby that was in the news whose father beat her and broke her leg and hit her head from the time she was a week old. People like that should get the death penalty because they don't deserve to be on earth. Or let it known in the Prison what they did. The other prisoners will take care of him!! JMO

[day2day]

Originally posted by tonyGricar
Actually, I take little offense to any scenarios, and have only had a couple of issues that have been addressed off-line. To each his own, which is the purpose of these forums. I'm not actively participating here, unless there's an area I can assist in. I still keep an eye on the board, but due to time constraints and schedule, I'm limited to once a week or less. Currently, I do a quick scan for relevance and that's about it.

PMs are the easy way to flag me down as I receive those notifications via my email.

Nice to see your post Mr. Gricar. I hope that in time we will all know the truth about what REALLY happened to Mr. Ray Gricar.
Your family remains in my thoughts and prayers.

:rose:

[day2day]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
Quote:

"It is really funny how we have all come to share and become friendly with one another. I love to see everyone's posts. I don't know what I will do when this case is solved. If the news isn't good then I will be devastated as I know all of you will be."

I check in every hour or so and am usually disappointed when no one has posted. When this case is solved and Ray found, alive, we can have a huge celebration and toast to his health and well being. If he is found and not alive, we go to his funeral or send cards, and pray for his family and him. Then we look for someone else who needs us. and there are many out there. JMO

Hi Sherrijean!

Even though I don't post as much as I would like too...I do check this board many times a day. I pray that soon we will find out the "truth"....

If you are like me SJ after Mr. Gricar's case is solved (or even before) there will be another missing person that grabs your heart....

It seems like it is neverending...

:rose:

[kelloggirl]

I too, am very frustrated by the ongoing delays. I feel that there is a lot of fertile ground that can be revisited by a dedicated, experienced task force, but the longer they postpone and delay, the more it gives the impression that they don't want this case to be solved, or at a minimum, it just isn't a priority.

You'd think the current DA would want to send a strong message that you can't just make law enforcement officials disappear and get away with it. Or, then again, maybe they really don't.

I'm probably just being paranoid because I watched this program on A&E called "City Confidential" about the corruption and mob presence in Youngstown, OH. This quote particularly stuck out in my mind: "To own a town, you have to own the sheriff, and you have to own the prosecutor." When the new incoming prosecutor couldn't be bought, he was promptly shot in the middle of the night. Luckily, the hired guns were incompetent and he survived.

These thoughts and questions about mafia presence in the area probably belong in another thread though...

[Serendipitous1]

I agree with you, kelloggirl...there is "a lot of fertile ground that can be revisited". I have heard before that the PSP has been dumbfounded by some of the stuff the BPD didn't follow up on.

According to Jeannie, the PSP review is going to finally happen...starting tomorrow. I hope so. The word is they will be meeting at the Academy in Hershey. Hbgchick, can you check that out?

[Serendipitous1]

Pete Bosak (CDT) is not optimistic about the pending PSPCIA unit meeting. He thinks the PSP has been on top of this case all along. I respectfully disagree.

I think the PSP and the Attorney General have been sitting on their hands far too long. But I wonder if there is a self-respecting officer of the law out there who is willing to say, "HEY NOW"!!

[sherrijean981]

I e-mailed my thoughts on the Street of Shoppes and the drug bust in Lewisburg area in 2005 to the Sheriff in Centre County. At least 4 of the people (2 women within 2-3 blocks and 2 men within 4miles (Milton)) were arrested in the drug bust and their names and addresses were listed on the Attorney General's site. There were deals being made undercover 03/05 to 05/05. I wondered if someone could show RG's picture to any of these people to see if they recognize him. He was supposedly in the park on Water St and that is the street one of the women lived on - S. Water St, a couple blocks on the other side of Market St. Another one lived 2 blocks back from where the car was parked. I just have bad feelings about it because CB said RG "stumbled on to something". Maybe it was right there in that area!! JMO

The Sheriff sent me an email and told me they were NOT going to stop looking for RG. The meeting is from a review by State Police and to get a new prespective on the case. He was forwarding my email to the appropiate office/party.

[UndertheRadar]

According to Pete, Madeira says "some information" may be released on Monday as to the PSP-CIA findings.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/special_packages/ray_gricar/qa_forum.html

I am not holding my breath.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by kelloggirl
I too, am very frustrated by the ongoing delays. I feel that there is a lot of fertile ground that can be revisited by a dedicated, experienced task force, but the longer they postpone and delay, the more it gives the impression that they don't want this case to be solved, or at a minimum, it just isn't a priority.

You'd think the current DA would want to send a strong message that you can't just make law enforcement officials disappear and get away with it. Or, then again, maybe they really don't.

I'm probably just being paranoid because I watched this program on A&E called "City Confidential" about the corruption and mob presence in Youngstown, OH. This quote particularly stuck out in my mind: "To own a town, you have to own the sheriff, and you have to own the prosecutor." When the new incoming prosecutor couldn't be bought, he was promptly shot in the middle of the night. Luckily, the hired guns were incompetent and he survived.

These thoughts and questions about mafia presence in the area probably belong in another thread though...



I think what bothers me about the information you gave on Oh, is that I-80 is a major road from NJ/NY through PA into OH/MI. They are always arresting someone bringing drugs into PA. When I was on the Attorney Generals site and pulled up drug busts in 2005 I couldn't believe the number of drug rings broke up. One group had a lot of people listed from MI, too. But how many more come in and start another one? I find it very scary. Even here in Mifflin County there is always something in the news about it. They drive to Philadelphia for it. A lot of the kids, even one in college, are so foolish as to believe they can get it and do and not get addicted. There have been a lot of young people dying from drug overdoses, and the crime rate is really high.

I give high fives to the Attorney General, the drug task force, the DA's and local police for all they are doing to catch them. Great job, guys and gals!!

[UndertheRadar]

I also feel that if this was drug related that there would have been a message from the drug people. We didn't see that.

Although I've given the drug connection/foul play angle a lot of thought and certainly haven't ruled it out, I tend to agree with you on this point.

I would at least think a drug retaliation message would be "he's dead." Leaving the disappearance so open-ended as to suggest suicide, walkaway, or any number of foul play scenarios doesn't send much of a "stay away from prosecuting drug dealers" message, does it? JMO.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella
Sherrijean,

While I somewhat agree with you, I am disappointed that the Attorney General didn't really do anything to find out what happened to Ray Gricar. Everyone can say that it is someone else's job, but being that Ray was involved with the drug bust, the Attorney General should have been more interested in what was happening with the case. I know that he had to know what was happening, but if he really cared about the men involved then I feel that he should have made sure that a better job was being done to find Ray.

Also they always find the little guys. They might call them kingpins, but in reality they are the little people. I will applaud the Attorney General when he finds a big fish in the pond.

I also feel that if this was drug related that there would have been a message from the drug people. We didn't see that. JMO, MOO

Cinderella,
What message would the drug people give? They are not going to want anyone to know it was them. The way it is right now we all have different scenerios and the drug bust in Centre County was said not to have anything to do with RG's disappearance. So they will keep their mouth's shut so no one comes looking for the killer. I personally think it was related to a drug bust but more likely in Lewisburg where CB says he stumbled on to something. The report from the Attorney General site said they were dealing down there everywhere, in homes, businesses, farm houses, etc. etc. and I was thinking he might have stumbled on to where they kept the drugs that were running back and forth on I-80. JMO

[sherrijean981]

Cinderella,
That wouldn't be nice now would it? lol Really scary stuff there! I think I watch too many CSI, Without A Trace, Forensic files. Scare the devil out of myself. lol

I am tired and don't know what suggestions to make or questions to ask. I feel like my brain is full from all the sites I have been reading over and over again.

I really hope that with the 20-25 PSP and whoever else is at that meeting come up with leads.

Quote from the CDT site:

"Centre County District Attorney Michael Madeira said Thursday that findings likely will not be released until next week concerning state police investigators’ assessment of the investigation into former District Attorney Ray Gricar’s disappearance.

About 20 to 25 investigators, members of the state police Criminal Investigation Assessment Unit, began meetings Wednesday and are expected to wrap up today at the State Police Southwest Training Center in Greensburg. The meeeting are closed.

The group is conducting an assessment of the investigation into Gricar’s disappearance to determine if any leads might have been missed or to perhaps uncover new avenues to pursue. The unit, which has delayed these meetings three times due to scheduling problems, has been reviewing Bellefonte Police Department case files for months.For more on this story see Friday's CDT or return here online"

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by OOBrett
Interesting that some findings may be released Thanksgiving week.

Probably Wednesday so that nobody (except message board denizens) pays any attention to them. By Friday it'll be lost in all the Black Friday/beginning of Christmas holiday noise.

Hi,
I am not so sure of that, getting lost in the holiday noise. I have been on different sites from this one, a couple, and plus the ones on here, there are a LOT of us wanting news. I just hope they start interviewing the people RG works with. I can not believe that many people could be out of the DA's office in one day, and the 2 days the DA was off too. Doesn't sound good to me. JMO

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by OOBrett
Interesting that some findings may be released Thanksgiving week.

Probably Wednesday so that nobody (except message board denizens) pays any attention to them. By Friday it'll be lost in all the Black Friday/beginning of Christmas holiday noise.

Hi OOBrett,

I see this is your first time here. Be prepared for mind boggling information. You WILL be obsessed like the rest of us in finding RG. When I first started reading the site I was up every night until 2 and 3am. I couldn't get enough of everyones opinions.
JMO

[UndertheRadar]

I do think Brett has a point. People will be wrapped up in holiday preparations and travel plans, less time to pay attention to news items that aren't major catastrophes and the like. It will also probably be less likely that journalists will be able to reach major players in the case for comment, at least until after the holiday weekend.

[sherrijean981]

I agree about the journalist. So, OOBrett, what are your thoughts on what happened to RG. We need some new perspective and someone new to voice it. Why did you wait so long to come on? JMO

[UndertheRadar]

Brett, if you go back through the "big thread" (the 115 page monster or however long it is) as well as others, you'll see that our discussions have a way of 'rounding back to old issues on a fairly frequent basis. Your input, even on issues discussions have moved away from, is welcome. It might get even get us out of ruts we're currently stuck in. :)

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by OOBrett
I read the "big thread" fairly contemporaneously to when it went up, so I do realize that.

One thing I would have chimed in on would have involved EZPasses (on what I've got to believe is the entirely tangential Luna discussion and not a legal issue, actually).

Something that I think might be slightly more productive would have been what's necessary to prove first degree murder in Pennsylvania (regarding the Vargas(?) case). I do think it's at least interesting that Gricar was willing to try to prove first degree murder, but after he's gone, the case is pled down to involuntary manslaughter with time served (or whatever it ended up being - certainly not first degree murder and a date with the electric chair). There was a bit of misinformation bandied about regarding the elements of first degree murder. I'll try to follow-up on that thought on Monday (I don't do the internet on weekends).

May I ask was Vargas the man from Boalsburg that supposedly killed his baby? The wife being from another country?

[sherrijean981]

Quote from OOBrett earlier:

"I've had multiple conversations (unrelated to Gricar case) with a couple of people who have had meaningful interactions/dealings with the Bellefonte Police Department. Based on those admittedly somewhat limited conversations (although with respected members of the Centre County community - you'll have to take my word on that) and no firsthand experience of my own, it's my opinion that the Bellefonte Police Department was not capable in April 2005, is not capable now, and will not be capable in the future, of properly investigating this case. This is not a new opinion to the Board, I know, but I do want to corroborate, based on what I consider my very good secondhand experience, what others have expressed."

I felt from the beginning something wasn't quite right with how they were investigating. The more you read and hear of how DZ investigated I am so glad it was not me missing. I just wondered if he was afraid of stepping on toes in the court house. Him not questioning anyone he worked with in the court house or his friends out of the court house. His not questioning all the men who were out of the office the same days RG was, where they were, their activity during those days and their relationship with RG should have all been addressed. Missing doesn't just mean walk away, it means no one knows where he is or what happened to him.

Brett, what are your thoughts on the psychic Carla Baron and her "seeing" and the investigation LE did as far as what she saw? Being a believer in people who have the ability (God's or chemical imbalance) I would like to know more of what she saw. I would like to hear from her and have pictures shown to us, maybe done by a police artists of what she saw, what the area looked like, etc. JMO I was in the area and have my own feelings and thoughts and on the Attorney Generals drugs busts in that area and where some of the people were located. Would be interesting to have an investigation by CB with pictures of those same people to see if they are in any way involved or their homes, businesses, etc. JMOO

[UndertheRadar]

Kudos to Bob Heisse for having the courage and good sense to tell it like it is:

"Ladies and gentlemen, this group should have held twice-a-day briefings during its three-day meeting or at least held a press availability after it. It should not keep information from the public.

And by doing this to the media, not allowing questions to be asked directly and putting rules like this in place, they are handling it all in the wrong way."

http://blogs.centredaily.com/happy_valley/

No one expects PSP to jeopardize an on-going investigation by releasing information that might damage the case. But the citizens of Centre County deserve more than a news embargo while this long-awaited meeting occurs.

[Serendipitous1]

BPD Police Chief Shawn Weaver: "Keep in mind that this is an ongoing investigation and we will not release any information that could possibly hurt this investigation in any way."

Resounding retort (should be): "Well, how about releasing information that could possibly HELP this investigation. Try to remember that this is a (19 months now, apparently vanished without a clue) MISSING PERSON, not a criminal or a known victim of any crime. By your own admission you don't have ANY information which could possibly hurt "the investigation". So for God's sake, why not spill everything you do have? Let's find Ray Gricar. Then you can start the REAL investigation.

[Serendipitous1]

OOB,

Since you are a lawyer, and setting aside (for the moment) visions of a Salvadoran (or whatever country that "no-contest" baby-killer was from) hit squad, could a case be made that Ray Gricar disappeared in Northumberland County? We have the man's car found in Lewisburg, at the eastern edge of Union County, and a hard drive and his county-issued laptop found in West Chillisquaque Township, Northumberland County.

Line those discoveries up and the thing is, if the trail ends in West Chilli, I think the state police should be in control of this investigation, not the Bellefonte police.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella
Sherrijean,

Here is a link about the Alejandro Mendez Vargas case.

http://www.freemendez.org/main.html


Oh my god!! She has got to be kidding! We lost a grandson - 7 weeks old - (a twin) that passed away from SID! It was and is the most horrifying experience we have ever experienced and I would wish it on no one. The EMS took the baby in the ambulance to do procedures on him and hook him up to equipment. My son and his wife were also kept out of the van, BUT not because they were guilty of anything. There was only so much room in the van and not possible for a parent to be in there due to getting in the way and being so hysterical it would be a distraction to the EMS and they would not be able to hear heart beats, etc.

These people are trained professionals, the doctors are trained professionals and yes they do look for that when a child is brought in. They also do autopsies on the babies, even our gson. They have things to look for and tests to run. There had to be something there that the DA would make an arrest and try the husband. She can't say for a fact what her husband did after she left. He could have been so upset over the crying he could have shaken him.

I think it was a terrible tragedy for the child, for RG to disappear just before he was to try the case. And if a judge agreed RG had enough to try the father then the incoming ADA or DA should have gone over RG's files and taken the case to court and won!! Sloppy stuff there too. I have never heard RG of bringing someone in for something without having the goods on them. JMO I feel no sympathy for a child beater, shaker, abuser. They all need the death penalty. JMO

I'll tell you if our family still suffers the loss 10 years later and his twin brother has this hollow sense of loss of the other part of him, (they held hands in their sleep) then this family will surely be living a heck of a miserable life of guilt! I hope so anyways!! JMO

[sherrijean981]

OH, by the way, my granddaughter and her baby lived with us. I watched him and took him to his doctor appointments. In the 3 years of watching him get his shots, be tested for asthma, for the flu, and all his wellness visits, there has never been a time when one of his doctors did anything that could have hurt him like she is inferring they do. Our little guy had to go to the hospital to have tubes put in his little ears and they were so gentle with him he went without crying. I have great respect for our pediatricians and nurses and hospitals. JMO

[J. J. in Phila]

As far as I can tell, the Vargas case was the capital case that RFG said, he wouldn't be there to try. It's only potentially capital case that was pending, IIRC and the guilty plea was entered around October. If there had been any additional delays after that, he'd be most likely out of office.

[sherrijean981]

Quote posted by Luster earlier:

"IMO Bosak should have changed into his full Superman regalia with a resounding "No way, folks!" about a minute after Weaver's absurd fax was received in the CDT office last evening, and be now be flying around creating quite a stir in Gotham City, perhaps with Heisse at his side. Will that happen? I sure enough hope so, but neither am I going to be shocked if this turns out to be yet another instance of Bosak and other local media simply
dropping to their knees before assertions of authority by PUBLIC SERVANTS in which they falsely claim the 'right' to withhold public
information from the public and its media.

Sorry to be so cynical, but requiring questions to be submitted
for 'approval' in advance of a news conference just to me reeks of the kind of thing that goes on with public figures trying to avoid being put on the spot by a reporter's questions about some
goofy decision they've made or something unpleasant in which they've been implicated. Gricar did dozens, maybe hundreds of
these things. A lot of them were within 24 hours of a criminal
incident happening when clearly there actually WAS an 'ONGOING INVESTIGATION". If a question was posed to him that might potentially undermine the ongoing investigation, it was declined with that explanation. But this goes way beyond that. This isn't
just declining to answer some specific question for a legitimate
reason. This is FEAR OF QUESTIONS that might be uttered WHILE THE CAMERAS ARE ROLLING. This is your chance, Pete/Clark -
use it well.

All JMO."


Luster, would it be more affective to write our opinions to CDT Editorial instead of sending questions to P. Bosak and him not answer them anyways? Maybe the family has been questioning what is going on? Do they really care about their feelings at this point? They didn't before or they would have been giving lie detector tests to a lot of people. The CDT is not reading this site and getting how we all feel on here. Maybe we are to be the ones to get it rolling by the CDT getting bombbarded with letters! JMO

[sherrijean981]

Quote earlier by Cinderella:
"No statement why they waited so long in searching for Ray and then they end up searching in a ball park in Ohio,"
Quote

Cinderella, I didn't know this happened. Why did they do that?

We should have bombbarded the CDT and Pete Bosak and all the major Centre County Official Offices to get someone to take an interest. Even DZ should have been getting a large amount of mail. I don't know if me writting would even make a point since I am out the Centre County. But I am scared for other DA's.


Quote from Logicworks earlier:
"I do not believe RG would have EVER just said, 'oh well' and given in to graciously 'retiring early' as a result of pressure regarding this case. He might have had to leave due to the pressure, but if so, he did manange to cause MORE problems than the county would have ever wanted.......years of investigation into his disappearance taking nothing the government had given him.....not his suits and ties he wore to serve them, not his retirement, not even the money he had in the bank.

What needs to be determined is whether he disappeared himself or if he was 'disappeared'. AND is the reason for a local
non-investigation because they already KNOW what caused his disappearance.
JMO"


Logic, theory makes some sense but why would he walk away from PF and LG and his nephews, just because he was upset with the system? Without a word and letting them think he committed suicide or was murdered? Or didn't love them enough to stay in their lives and just walked away? He was a strong man, he could have stood up to the higher ups if they were pressuring for early retirement. He worked hard all those years and he and PF had made many plans and he wanted her to retire with him. I'm not sure that senerio is what he would have done so close to his dream and plans of retirement. I would think murder in fact! JMO

Also another question. I have not heard anyone mention why RG was so involved with the Women's Abuse Center and took cases of women who were abused. Was there somewhere in his past with a family member that was injured or suffered badly from abuse? Maybe his mother? Again JMO

[tiredoftheguff]

Finally Joe Leathers has been arrested and is in jail!! Thank you JESUS! Perhaps now the police will go and search his property and all of the farm land that he has access to. As well as Leathers camp! I say take the cadaver dogs and go and find Ray! The police should not believe a word he says. As I said before he has so many skeletons in his closet that he could never get the door closed!

[kelloggirl]

Good news, tiredoftheguff! Do you know what the charges are? TIA.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by tiredoftheguff
Finally Joe Leathers has been arrested and is in jail!! Thank you JESUS! Perhaps now the police will go and search his property and all of the farm land that he has access to. As well as Leathers camp! I say take the cadaver dogs and go and find Ray! The police should not believe a word he says. As I said before he has so many skeletons in his closet that he could never get the door closed!

I would suspect that the police had probable cause with BJL's statement.

[Cloudbuster]

lustor its understood what you mean by secrecy. SECRECY then tell me how a man gets in major trouble (bellefonte) area April 13th 2005 and Rg goes april 14th 2005 to the PBM (which ties into the person in major trouble). But this man in trouble is'nt arrested until June 2005 by the Bellefonte PD? Then tell me how does this manage to escape being mentioned at all? Not even in any local papers? The only mystery of this was when RG blessed the PBM with his presence? Wonder why he did that? :rolleyes: Even comissioner Chris Ex said it was unsual for RG to be at the meeting. Follow that mystery with RG disappears April 15th 2005. Everyone fails to even know that a man arrived a week before RG disappears in the backwoods? A dangerous one at that. Why did he come? Why did he bless centre county with his presence? He could'nt contain himself for a whole week he got in trouble yes even a stalker-threats ect.
Why wait to arrest him in June 2005? Was he on the run till then? Was he out and about?
Why flip at a pysicans office?
Was he looking for meds or something?

Why did he leave Johnstown?

Why was he shipped off to Clinton county way back before Roy drowned?

Why did RG not feel Roy comitted suicide?

It seems the denominator exists.

Why does no one question this?

Why is it so important TO KEEP THE CASE IN BELLEFONTE?

Why did this man file in supreme court to be returned from Clinton county back to Centre County?

What did he have in centre county jail that was different than clinton county jail?

Why in Greensburg? Why the secrecy?

Lusor these are what needs checked out. Good questions Lustor my friend good questions!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella
Lustor,


We wanted to know if that is why Ray was so upset at the time that he attended the Prison Board Meeting and the Commissioners Meeting. SD who is Jeffrey's half brother asked Gricar a question and Ray didn't respond the way that SD wanted him to. SD said that what they discussed was off the record and on the way out of the meeting. JMO, MOO



First, I've never hear any reports that RFG was upset at the PBM, though SD noted that he only attended about a quarter of them. IIRC, SD said that his attendance was the most unusual thing that happened at the PBM.

Second, SD asked about a personnel matter. That is a civil law matter, and under the purview of the County Solicitor (who represents the County in civil matters, like if it was being sued.) RFG respond that he didn't do that type of law and referred SD to the Solicitor. RFG didn't do civil law (which includes employment law) during his long practice, so he was acting quite appropriately in that regard.

It wasn't of RFG not giving SD the answer SD wanted. It was RFG saying that the question was out of his area of practice (which it would be).

[UndertheRadar]

Press conference set for Tuesday, but no time has been released for the conference.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06325/740075-85.stm

An article in the Collegian says the group gathered in part to discuss possible new leads in the case.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2006/11/11-20-06tdc/11-20-06dnews-12.asp

[UndertheRadar]

Originally posted by logicworks
The long awaited report......

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/local/16066894.htm

State police investigators "recommended several investigative strategies" but will not prepare or release a report on their review, said Michael Madeira, who is now the county's top prosecutor.

"I am pleased that this review by 'another set of eyes' can assist the work of all the agencies that cooperated in this investigation from the very beginning," Madeira said in a statement released Tuesday before an afternoon news conference.

Wow, at least we know the news conference is this afternoon.

What happened to the Power Point presentation that was promised at the conclusion of this meeting? And how interesting is it that the article says the investigators met for two days? That fits with a CDT article last Thursday that said investigators were "wrapping up" their meeting on Thursday.

I don't know about anybody else, but I am thoroughly disheartened by all of this.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks
The 'downplaying' of the Gricar case online is interesting.
If one goes to the latest news online, the Gricar case doesn't even warrant a headline. Finally went to crime and did a search to find one article.
If one goes to the 296 questions, one gets an October date at the top with a photo of what I suppose is today's front page.
Talk about control.... who's in charge?

Further insult is to release the news of the report yesterday, the same day the locals were all gung-ho about the announcement of which bowl PSU will be in.
Now today's news arriving on the Eve of Thanksgiving, when most are either heading out of town for the long Holiday weekend or have already left.
Who said timing isn't everything?

IMO, these 'tactics' are not normal for either LE or the media, which tends to lead one to believe this is either a 'top-secret' investigation, (??led by DZ??), or indeed there is a 'cover-up'.

The PSP-CIA review was nothing but an orchestrated, time-consuming 'nothing'.
JMO


I agree too. I went to CentreDaily.com and it shows a picture of 4 investigators in Lewisburg and underneath links to go to but nothing is there. The one link just goes to a page to show the front page of the CDT, but nowhere is there an article on anything of this week. What is up, Pete? Even you don't have anything to say anymore. You don't answer questions anymore and i see no articles on RG. JMO

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by logicworks
The 'downplaying' of the Gricar case online is interesting.
If one goes to the latest news online, the Gricar case doesn't even warrant a headline. Finally went to crime and did a search to find one article.
If one goes to the 296 questions, one gets an October date at the top with a photo of what I suppose is today's front page.
Talk about control.... who's in charge?

You might have a browser cache problem, Logic. The article is front page today on both the print and online editions.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/photos/12026966.htm

And just a few minutes ago, the CDT editor posted to his blog:
http://blogs.centredaily.com/happy_valley/2006/11/the_gricar_case.html

[Serendipitous1]

What about Emma J. Gricar? Married 5 years. Ray filed for divorce in 2001. They sold their home in 2002. Emma's off with William J. Haley in Norristown, then Pottstown. They sold their home there in May 2005. Where is Emma now? What does she know?

[sherrijean981]

So is the CDT going to print the 296 questions/answers or not? I had my husband pick up the CDT here in Milroy and nothing about the questions in the front section. And even going onto Tony's link did not give me anything.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
So is the CDT going to print the 296 questions/answers or not? I had my husband pick up the CDT here in Milroy and nothing about the questions in the front section. And even going onto Tony's link did not give me anything. The 296+ questions are here (as you well know):
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/special_packages/ray_gricar/qa_forum.html

But don't look for 296 answers. They are not there!!!

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella
Well it was here and gone in the blink of an eye. Did I miss something? :rolleyes:

Are you talking about the Centre Daily Times news today about the CIA investigation? I felt the same when I read the article. Felt like a rerun in print.

If you live in Centre County you can ask for help from the people to search their properties but as an out of county reader I can not do that. They only put Centre County "Letters To The Editor" because of limited space. So they say. Seems I was reading out of towners about the subject of "tailgating at PSU" and how they were not coming back if they couldn't drink.

I can not understand what the big deal is to put a paragraph in and ask Centre County and surrounding county residents to do a "walk around" on their property to see if anything suspicious is there. I can't believe the people of the county would mind giving the Ray Gricar family that bit of help during this holiday season. I would walk the mountains if I could. JMO

[UndertheRadar]

Since LE has concentrated its investigation into Ray's disappearance in a non-Centre County location, it only makes sense that non-Centre County people are going to have some interest in the case as well as CC residents and might want to voice an opinion. Can't imagine why football and tailgating get an exemption if there's a "Centre County residents only" rule for letters but not a missing persons case where the primary LE jurisdiction is out-of-county. JMO.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Cinderella
That is so unbelievable. The Centre Daily Times does though put news in their paper from out of Centre County. So does that mean that if they print a news story going on where you live, that you can't write to the editor about that article.

Do they not want your letter to the editor because they think that Ray would just be in someone's Centre County yard? :santa:

Sorry SherriJean, but it is so stupid that it is funny. :hat:

My point to one of the editors was they sell their papers in other counties. They couldn't spare a small section of the paper to put my letter in and I didn't think the people of Centre County would mind if someone out of county ask them to walk their properties and see if anything was out of place.

I buy the CDT here in my county plus have the Centre Daily Times site as my home page. I also know they cater to Alumni of Penn State and I read letters that some were so irate at the tailgaiting decisions that were made this year, that they were threatening not to come back, from out of state and out of county.

It wasn't funny at the time, I was furious! To think what RG's family is going through and all I wanted was to suggest something that everyone could do to help and wouldn't have to leave their properties.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by UndertheRadar
Since LE has concentrated its investigation into Ray's disappearance in a non-Centre County location, it only makes sense that non-Centre County people are going to have some interest in the case as well as CC residents and might want to voice an opinion. Can't imagine why football and tailgating get an exemption if there's a "Centre County residents only" rule for letters but not a missing persons case where the primary LE jurisdiction is out-of-county. JMO.


There is no written rule to Centre County residents only. I was told that by an editor and the top blog writer. I questioned why, they said they don't have much space and the people of CC would be upset. But on the Letter to Editor site where it tells about writting it only says they can make the decision of who's letter is printed (just not in those words). Oh and they can edit the letter if it is too long or send it back and have you edit it. Which they did neither.

And that the missing person is there District Attorney who gave many many years to the county and Women's Resource Centre!! He deserves more from Centre County than what he is getting. JMO

[Serendipitous1]

My "hinky meter" is redlining after watching the Elaine Pierson investigation unfold this week. I also saw tv coverage this evening on the investigations into the disappearances of Jennifer Barziloski (2001) and her friend Phylicia Thomas (2004) in northeast Pennsylvania. The problem for law enforcement in those cases appears to be finding the evidence that would turn them from missing persons to murders. There appears to be some evidence about what property should be searched, but police powers to search private property without permission depend on probable cause.

I suspect the Gricar investigation, a week and a half in, probably dwarfed the Pierson investigation. I really believe law enforcement has had a good idea what happened to Ray Gricar, but have been hampered by the same problem as in the Barziloski and Thomas cases - probable cause. If so, my hope is that the CIA team's assessment produced some specific (and ultimately fruitful) recommendations on strategy.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by lustorumanimae


***Two predominant search areas - the shared house, which contrary to JJ's repeated assertions, was according to my information never searched, but rather PF was requested to search - and the office - should/would not logically have presented the slightest need for pc or a warrant - just a simple
exercise of permission - by PF in one case and MS in the other.
So sounds not plausible to me as a distinction, S1.

Lustor, my "assertion" was the fact that LE did a walk through the house, looking for evidence of anything unusual, like new or recently cleaned carpets, a freshly scrubbed or freshly painted wall. It was from the CDT forum.

Another problem is that various members of RFG's family were in the house and could have noticed anything suspicious.

Maybe you should ask your source, Lustor, or perhaps get a new source.

[UndertheRadar]

Originally posted by logicworks

Just curious as to the rationale used when the house wasn't roped and tied off until it could be gone over with a 'fine tooth comb' but was instead allowed to become Grand Central Station. Exactly how did that happen?
JMO

Maybe the same way it happened in the Ramsey case? JMO.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


Why did LE decide to do a walk-through the house WEEKS after the disappearance? If they wanted to look for evidence, why wait till weeks later? Was it a 'hind sight' move?



My understanding was that it was done within a few days of the report, not weeks. It seemed to concurrent with looking through RFG's clothes to see what, if anything, was missing. LE was there for that.


Fingerprints would not require painting or carpeting. Neither would mucus or vomit to name a couple. There are more. Obviously if there had been blood, it would have been visible to family or LE while they were there, so what could they possibly have been checking to see was covered up?


The impression that had was that LE was looking for signs that something violent had happened in the house. There was none.


Just curious as to the rationale used when the house wasn't roped and tied off until it could be gone over with a 'fine tooth comb' but was instead allowed to become Grand Central Station. Exactly how did that happen?
JMO

Until 6:30 PM 4/16/05, there was absolutely no evidence that this wasn't an accident on the road or that RFG just decided to get away from it all for the weekend. Second, there was never any evidence that the house was a crime scene to be roped off. I have never heard of LE roping off a missing person's home, unless there was evidence that a crime had been committed in it.

[Cloudbuster]

JJ they don't rope off a house in a missing persons case. My sis house was not roped off but what they did do in our case was search for her car. THEY said if they find the car they would be able to do more as in questioning and interviewing people. Finding the car if she was'nt in it would then alert them of a possible foul play ALTHOUGH they said they would still treat it as a missing persons case. That means if the car would of been found without her then they would lean toward foul play but without a body that also would mean if they had a suspect in mind they could do absolutely nothing without her body.

So why are they not leading toward foul play on this one? They found Rays car without him?:confused:

[Cloudbuster]

http://www.necrosearch.org/

This is what LE and the family need for help. I saw this tonight on a court TV show. They found a lady in a river in a car that was missing for SEVEN years. They even analize BUGS.

NecroSearch is a non-profit organization that specializes in the search for clandestine gravesites.



The NecroSearch mission is to assist law enforcement agencies by providing applied research, training, and on-site investigations.

NecroSearch scientists and investigators work on a volunteer basis.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster

So why are they not leading toward foul play on this one? They found Rays car without him?:confused: [/B]

First, I hope your sister was, or will be, found okay. I don't know your history.

My guess to why this isn't thought of as foul play because there was no evidence of a crime at the car.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
My "hinky meter" is redlining after watching the Elaine Pierson investigation unfold this week. I also saw tv coverage this evening on the investigations into the disappearances of Jennifer Barziloski (2001) and her friend Phylicia Thomas (2004) in northeast Pennsylvania. The problem for law enforcement in those cases appears to be finding the evidence that would turn them from missing persons to murders. There appears to be some evidence about what property should be searched, but police powers to search private property without permission depend on probable cause.

I suspect the Gricar investigation, a week and a half in, probably dwarfed the Pierson investigation. I really believe law enforcement has had a good idea what happened to Ray Gricar, but have been hampered by the same problem as in the Barziloski and Thomas cases - probable cause. If so, my hope is that the CIA team's assessment produced some specific (and ultimately fruitful) recommendations on strategy.


http://www.necrosearch.org/

This is what LE and the family need for help. I saw this tonight on a court TV show. They found a lady in a river in a car that was missing for SEVEN years. They even analize BUGS.

NecroSearch is a non-profit organization that specializes in the search for clandestine gravesites.



The NecroSearch mission is to assist law enforcement agencies by providing applied research, training, and on-site investigations.

NecroSearch scientists and investigators work on a volunteer basis.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


First, I hope your sister was, or will be, found okay. I don't know your history.

My guess to why this isn't thought of as foul play because there was no evidence of a crime at the car.

JJ thanks!! My sis was found BUT still has not contacted family in over a month not even for Christmas. I had most of her kids at my house for the holidays all 3 but not the other 2 :(

The PSP told me it still would lean toward foul play if they found that car without her and he never said anything about needed evidence in it. He only said they needed to find the car and that would change the way they was handling it BUT even if they suspected someone the still could not do anything without a body.

[day2day]

Originally posted by Politigal


I hadn't read this post before til today.

Tony refers to the conflict of interest -

"You've got everyone so close to the situation, from co-workers to historical connections. There should be a third party that has no solid connection."

This is where the problem lies.....IMO

Mhmm..I agree!! I have said that from day1...but that was a great find...

Thanks for the reminder..:seeya:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster .

So why are they not leading toward foul play on this one? They found Rays car without him?:confused:

Probably because they found no evidence of foul play in the car, or in the parking lot, and no witness saw anything that looked like foul play.

It doesn't rule it out, but it doesn't point to it either.

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
What about Emma J. Gricar? Married 5 years. Ray filed for divorce in 2001. They sold their home in 2002. Emma's off with William J. Haley in Norristown, then Pottstown. They sold their home there in May 2005. Where is Emma now? What does she know? [/*]

I've always been very curious where or who you learned about WM Haley from.

According to Montgomery County Property Tax Records, he isn't listed anywhere that I can find.

http://propertyrecords.montcopa.org/Search/GenericSearch.aspx?mode=OWNER

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Politigal

I've always been very curious where or who you learned about WM Haley from. According to Montgomery County Property Tax Records, he isn't listed anywhere that I can find.
http://propertyrecords.montcopa.org/Search/GenericSearch.aspx?mode=OWNER [/*]I suspect curiosity is why we all have lingered here...else a simple, one-time condolence sent to raygricar.com long ago would have sufficed. The instant information you seek *was* once online. Ditto that regarding *almost* everything I ever posted about.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Probably because they found no evidence of foul play in the car, or in the parking lot, and no witness saw anything that looked like foul play.

It doesn't rule it out, but it doesn't point to it either. [/*]

It does point to it if you don't fall for the 3 messages left behind of confusion by the k.

RG not having his cell phone and car means he didn't walk on foot now did he? Kidnapping points toward foul play! being about 50 miles away from home points to abduction. No credit card or bank account activity all points toward foul play.

Problem is everyone bought the killers 3 messages and after that the laptop and harddrive continued to keep everyone clued to the clear message of the theories now narrowed down to 2 which are walkaway or foul play. The killer had to do that because by now without a body the killer knew that suicide was not a option without a body. So your left preplexed with 2 remaining messages of confusion.

THINK without a car or a phone what the heck do you think happened to RG? RG is not going to come back at a later time and throw computer drives out and do something like that to Lara. get a grip. I fell for walkaway before just as much as the foul play but seriously the k is brilliant and thats what he needed to do was cast a message of confusion on us sheeple. This bah bah woke up to the message lol.

[slaphappy]

Man, it is almost impossible to keep up with all you !! Every time I get online to catch up with theories, there are soooo many posts!

Wasn't sure which thread to put this in (They all just seem to entwine) But because this thread is called ' Results of PSP-CIA Review' and the article is talking about the investigation ... well thought this might be a good place to put it.

It is an old article (but then what isn't when it concerns Ray?) I know you posters have hashed over every sentence in every article mentioning Ray. I'm like sherrijean, my memory isn't the greatest. It is not photographic in the least.
I'm sure this has been discussed already, but here goes... My question is what other case was the FBI working on in the general area at the time of Ray's 'vanishing'?

Quote from the article:

"Fornica said she thinks it's "expected" that FBI results would take awhile to come back, but she said it is also her understanding that the FBI agent who was assigned to the case had been working on another case out of the area."

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2005/09/09-13-05tdc/09-13-05dnews-06.asp

The comment is about half way down the article. I hope that worked. I tried to make link in current crimes one day and it didn't work. Just not a computer person.
The article was in the Collegian , dated Tuesday September 13, 2005.

I swear I don't know how you guys keep up with each others posts! Wow!!

[J. J. in Phila]

From the same article:

Cpl. Daniel Holliday, the Bellefonte police officer in charge, said yesterday that police had no new updates in the investigation, and that the FBI is still investigating whether a man in cell phone pictures taken by a Texas woman is actually Gricar.

"We have not gotten the results back from the FBI on the photographs," Holliday said. "It's the FBI ... obviously, they have a lot of things to take care of. I'm sure they are doing the best that they can."

The FBI did a few things, like the bank and credit card accounts, analyzing the photos, and the drive.

[Cinderella]

Hey J. J.,

Wake Up. Did someone give you a milkshake?

Quote from Slaphappy's post:

My question is what other case was the FBI working on in the general area at the time of Ray's 'vanishing'?

[Politigal]

Originally posted by Cinderella
Hey J. J.,

Wake Up. Did someone give you a milkshake?

Quote from Slaphappy's post:

My question is what other case was the FBI working on in the general area at the time of Ray's 'vanishing'? [/*]

the article says it was another case "out of the area."

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cinderella
Hey J. J.,

Wake Up. Did someone give you a milkshake?

Quote from Slaphappy's post:

My question is what other case was the FBI working on in the general area at the time of Ray's 'vanishing'? [/*]

That one I don't know, but they do a lot of cases.

[slaphappy]

Thanks, politigal:)

Was just wondering if there could have been a connection since the FBI was involved.